pedantry and mefi

September 26, 2005 11:52 AM

There's a time and place for everything, sure, but can we stop using MeFi threads to debate usage of the English language? I'm all for "flag and move on," but this seems to be happening a lot.
posted by Godbert to etiquette/policy at 11:52 AM (127 comments total)

It's that Todd Lokken guy who's got a call-out comin', if you ask me.
posted by klangklangston at 11:54 AM on September 26, 2005

Wouldn't that be, "There's a time or place for everything"?
posted by Rothko at 12:02 PM on September 26, 2005

...surely?
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 12:06 PM on September 26, 2005

C'mon, he used "ATM Machine". Can't you see how the lowers the level of discourse and MetaFilter in general? When I saw that phrase "ATM machine" I was all like Caveman Lawyer and shit.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 12:08 PM on September 26, 2005

"There... are... four... lights!"

Damn it... I'm all for flagging grammatical mistakes, and I especially hate, hate, hate the "ATM machine" one. The only thing that I hate more is when someone says "Automatic Teller Machine," like it spits out money when no one is there...

It's wrong, and wouldn't have become such a derail if some goofballs didn't insist on defending their bad usage. It's wrong, wrong, wrong. Nothing to debate... sheesh!

uh... IMHO...
posted by jpburns at 12:11 PM on September 26, 2005

Wow. This is a proud day for me. Momma used to say that I'd never amount to anything, and yet, here I am, with my very first callout. Sure, I've had to share it with a few other miscreants, but nevertheless, I'm feeling proud.

Godbert, I wasn't debating anything. There were a few cracks made about redundancy, and I had a small (and no doubt deeply uninteresting) anecdote to tell about about a much more overt example of redundancy concerning exactly the same subject. Most people, probably just about everybody, would have ignored it. You've drawn attention to it. Well done.

Going by your AskMe history, I've got a feeling that you're just an asshole that enjoys being annoyed by petty stuff. The solution, in this case, is "flag and move on".

Have a great day!
posted by veedubya at 12:11 PM on September 26, 2005

The point is that the thread was immediately derailed, not that the derail focused on a niggling usage point.

Try not immediately and totally derailing threads, veedubya. Nothing to be proud of there, son.
posted by scarabic at 12:18 PM on September 26, 2005

posted by caddis at 12:19 PM on September 26, 2005

Wow, veedubya, he's been here two whole weeks and someone has already called him an asshole. A new record?
posted by fixedgear at 12:20 PM on September 26, 2005

veedubya,

I would hardly say that I enjoy getting annoyed by petty stuff, but I'll be the first to admit that it does annoy me, and probably to a greater extent than most.
That said, it's one thing to make a comment on redundancy. If it were one or two people, I would have flagged the comments and that would have been the end of it. But it was at least eight comments (now 14) out of less then 30. When nearly/more than one-third of a thread is comments (not debate, as you noted) about the use of "ATM machine," it makes any sort of actual discussion that much more difficult. Yes, it's noise; it's just such a high concentration of noise that I thought it was worth mentioning.
posted by Godbert at 12:21 PM on September 26, 2005

There is a time or a place, or there are a time and a place, but surely not both.
posted by Rothko at 12:24 PM on September 26, 2005

yeah why cant u guys liten up a little bit. todd lokken.
posted by grouse at 12:26 PM on September 26, 2005

At least someone didn't beg the question.
posted by fleacircus at 12:26 PM on September 26, 2005

The only thing I hate more than incorrect usage is when it's defended with, "Well, everyone else is doing it, so it's okay."
posted by fandango_matt at 12:27 PM on September 26, 2005

But it was at least eight comments (now 14) out of less then 30.

Ahem.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 12:38 PM on September 26, 2005

For everything, there are a time and place.

And a reasons for every porpoise, under heavens.
posted by mzurer at 12:43 PM on September 26, 2005

We all should kowtow to fandango_matt's preferences, always.
posted by raedyn at 12:43 PM on September 26, 2005

Crud. My ability to properly utilize language seems to have left me today. Which really annoys me, since I'm the sort of person who hates improper use of stuff like then/than.

Well, TGIF. What? It's only Monday?!
posted by Godbert at 12:43 PM on September 26, 2005

scarabic, pop, some of us don't mind the derails quite as much as others. This isn't school, and we're not here to study for exams.

fixedgear, him only being here a couple of weeks is why I called him an asshole. This is like the guy who moves into the street and, two weeks later, sends a later a letter to all of his new neighbours telling them that he's not happy with the state of their front lawns.
posted by veedubya at 12:47 PM on September 26, 2005

Please ignore the 'a later'. Thanks.

/derail
posted by veedubya at 12:48 PM on September 26, 2005

posted by raedyn: We all should kowtow to fandango_matt's preferences, always.

Yes. Thank you. I could care less about the grammar up with which you grew, but in here its already been partially destroyed, so we shouldn't decimate it more.
posted by fandango_matt at 12:49 PM on September 26, 2005

This is like the guy who moves into the street and, two weeks later, sends a later a letter to all of his new neighbours telling them that he's not happy with the state of their front lawns.

Ummm, not to all his new neighbors. Just ones who let their dogs crap on other people's lawns.

Who here likes hijacks? There's other places to talk about how it's so so so so so so so so awful to say ATM machine besides in a thread about embezzling from school districts.
posted by 23skidoo at 12:53 PM on September 26, 2005

"There are a time and a place" doesn't make sense. It's "there is." What you are saying is "there is a time" and "there is a place." Just like you say "I went to the store, the barbershop, and the gym" applies I went to each item.
posted by dame at 12:54 PM on September 26, 2005

Rarely is the question asked: are there a time and a place?
posted by grouse at 12:57 PM on September 26, 2005

There are the donuts. These are their donuts. They're the donut people.
posted by ook at 12:58 PM on September 26, 2005

You cannot destroy grammar. And I couldn't care less about your desire to keep the language static, to be judged right or wrong by comparing it to some arbitrarily determined reference point. And the derail really sucked.
posted by deadcowdan at 12:59 PM on September 26, 2005

For what it's worth, VW, I got damned annoyed reading the comments too. And I'm not an old-timer, but nor am I a wet-behind-the-ears whelp like Godbert or yourself.

The story was fascinating. I was interested in reading what my esteemed fellow Mefites thought about it. Instead, the thread was instantly dragged into a pedantic debate about "proper" grammar. I found that disappointing, as (apparently) did Godbert.

If you want to discuss matters that have nothing to do with the actual subject matter of the links, I'd humbly suggest you head over to MetaChat.
posted by Johnny Assay at 1:00 PM on September 26, 2005

My ability to properly utilize language seems to have left me today.

Anyhoo


posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:03 PM on September 26, 2005

I could care less about the grammar up with which you grew, but in here its already been partially destroyed, so we shouldn't decimate it more.

Maybe you could do your part by learning the difference between "it's" and "its." Also, "I could care less" probably doesn't mean what you want it to mean.
posted by anapestic at 1:04 PM on September 26, 2005

OMG if grammar doesnt matter & its ok I thought that article was T3H ROXXORS!!!!!!!11
posted by fandango_matt at 1:04 PM on September 26, 2005

scarabic, pop, some of us don't mind the derails quite as much as others. This isn't school, and we're not here to study for exams.

Oh... arguing with idiots is like jousting with windmills. You should click on the flagging tool sometime [!] and note that "derail" is one of the types of content that the flagging system is designed to eliminate. It doesn't matter very much what you "mind" or don't. So this isn't a reveiw session for an upcoming exam, eh? Does that mean we should turn it into yet another bullshit internet message board with the attention span of a fruit fly?
posted by scarabic at 1:04 PM on September 26, 2005

anapestic, you do understand the concepts of irony and humor, yes?
posted by fandango_matt at 1:05 PM on September 26, 2005

It begs the question: What is the proper venue for such a response?
posted by brownpau at 1:05 PM on September 26, 2005

Ummm, not to all his new neighbors. Just ones who let their dogs crap on other people's lawns.

You'd have a point, if it weren't for the fact that just about anybody that's hung around here long enough to want an account, knows that lawns on this street get crapped on every single day.
posted by veedubya at 1:06 PM on September 26, 2005

Who here likes hijacks?

I think you meant, "Who here likes flapjacks?"

The only thing I hate more than incorrect usage is when it's defended with, "Well, everyone else is doing it, so it's okay."

In my opinion, if even one other person is doing it, it's okay. Todd Lokken
posted by soyjoy at 1:07 PM on September 26, 2005

It begs the question: What is the proper venue for such a response?

It raises the question perhaps, but it does not beg the question. Begging the question means that you assume that which you set out to prove. It is an error of logic, not an invitation to further inquiry.
posted by anapestic at 1:07 PM on September 26, 2005

Is it okay if three or more people are doing it? Todd Lokken
posted by five fresh fish at 1:12 PM on September 26, 2005

I think this thread begs the sarcasm.
posted by OmieWise at 1:16 PM on September 26, 2005

I think that scarabic is my ex-wife, and am duly humbled.

It was the use of 'eh?' that gave it away.
posted by veedubya at 1:23 PM on September 26, 2005

It raises the question perhaps, but it does not beg the question. Begging the question means that you assume that which you set out to prove. It is an error of logic, not an invitation to further inquiry.

ahem
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:24 PM on September 26, 2005

anapestic, you do understand the concepts of irony and humor, yes?

I have heard rumors of such concepts, yes, but a brief perusal of your posting history indicates apostrophic abuse in 37% of your postings (36% in the blue, 38% in the green, and a whopping 39% in the grey/brown).
posted by anapestic at 1:27 PM on September 26, 2005

Nasty cough, MrMoonPie.

I did consider that brownpau might be winding me (or everyone, really) up, but I discarded the notion on the grounds that even if he or she understands the correct usage of "begging the question," misuse of the term is so rampant as to require constant vigilance and correction so that the less informed among us learn better.
posted by anapestic at 1:31 PM on September 26, 2005

misuse of the term is so rampant as to require constant vigilance and correction so that the less informed among us learn better.

Translation: I have no sense of humor.
posted by grouse at 1:32 PM on September 26, 2005

anapestic is sad 'cause our humor is bad?
posted by MrMoonPie at 1:34 PM on September 26, 2005

in related news, MrMoonPie's login has been seized by the ghost of Johnnie Cochran.
posted by jonmc at 1:37 PM on September 26, 2005

Perhaps, jon. On the other hand, anapestic is role-playing Lt. Data.

Humor. It is a difficult concept.
posted by fandango_matt at 1:43 PM on September 26, 2005

There's a time and place for everything, sure, but can we stop using MeTa threads to debate usage of the English language? I'm all for "flag and move on," but this seems to be happening a lot.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:47 PM on September 26, 2005

I will cheerfully admit to taking matters of language too seriously. However, some of the rest of you might try to consider that if someone else doesn't find your joke funny, there is at least a possibility that your joke is as much to blame as the sense of humor of the person who doesn't laugh at it. I have a fine sense of humor. I got a joke in 1978 and another in 1997. I reckon that's about average.
posted by anapestic at 1:53 PM on September 26, 2005

Are there nothing but philistines reading these posts?
Think it’s easy to write in this way?
I am trying to write anapestic syntax,
Do you see what I’m trying to say?
posted by MrMoonPie at 2:05 PM on September 26, 2005

Take it to MetaEnglish.
posted by me3dia at 2:05 PM on September 26, 2005

Or, better yet, MetaTalkProperly.
posted by fandango_matt at 2:11 PM on September 26, 2005

That's MetaSpeakProperly, dumbass.
posted by MrMoonPie at 2:12 PM on September 26, 2005

I have never seen such a congregation of wet blankets.

First, it wasn't veedubya who derailed. Veedubya was derailed. All you grammar freaks can go look up the difference between transitive and intransitive verbs, if you want. But because scarabic wanted to pounce on somebody, and veedubya bothered to come in here to address his accuser, now he's getting shit on. All of you should go find a real problem to address.

Second, the problem with the derail isn't that it was a grammar correction. The problem is that it was clever (depending on your measuring stick for cleverness.), and people felt the need to chime in with their own version. If the first comment in thread had been "Excuse me, but I think that you usage of the phrase 'ATM Machine' is redundant," then no one would have responded. At most, someone would have said, "So?" and that would have been the end of it. It became a joke-a-thon, rather than a discussion.

Thirdly, Veedubya's right. This callout sucks. It sucks more because some dude came in here to start a fight within 2 weeks of joining. I don't know about you all, but my first MeTa post was garbage, and I got piled on because of it. Why? I deserved it. I posted asking for "Metafilter" and "Google" to be added to the spellchecker. If I'd taken the time to look over MeTa and see what was considered a decent thing to post here (just like your supposed to do in MeFi) then I wouldn't have posted it. If Godbert had taken the time to read MeTa and see what posting callouts here is like, he probably would have realized that this was his pet peeve, and it wasn't the kind of derail that deserves a callout. Posts kill themselves all the time because of poor wording, mistakes, etc... It happens and we move on. If you have a problem with certain comments, flag it and move on. This isn't worth the gray.

People make jokes in threads, folks. get over it or get a sense of humor. If it derails a thread, that wasn't the intention and it doesn't mean we should refrain from making jokes or comments of a particular type from now on.

CHRIST, this callout sucks.
posted by shmegegge at 2:12 PM on September 26, 2005

Now see, saying "syntax" where you mean "meter," that's comedy gold!

I am amused by the effort, MMP. Sadly, Dr. Seuss did anapestic tetrameter so well that he ruined it for everyone else. After The Cat in the Hat, there's nowhere to go but down.

Still, I appreciate that you're one of the 0.05% of speakers of English who know what my handle means. Numerous MeFites in the past have simply assumed that I am a female whose first name is some form of "Ann."

On preview, shmegegge, while I agree that the callout is pointless, I could easily argue that it's only the third most pointless callout today.
posted by anapestic at 2:15 PM on September 26, 2005

I will now preemptively correct the above post, so you guys don't have to.

"But because scarabic..." But shouldn't begin a sentence.
"I think that you usage" should read "I think that your usage."
"like your supposed to do in MeFi) should read "like you're supposed to do in MeFi)
there shouldn't be a comma between "peeve" and "and."
there should be a capital letter at the beginning of "Get over it or get a sense of humor."
posted by shmegegge at 2:17 PM on September 26, 2005

MetaTalk Pretty One Day.
posted by ericb at 2:18 PM on September 26, 2005

anapestic, yeah it's been one of those days.

but do you mean that it's less than pointless than two other callouts or merely that there were 3 callouts that qualified as "most pointless" of which it was chronologically the third?
posted by shmegegge at 2:19 PM on September 26, 2005

Until about 2/3 of the way down the thread, I was reading the name as anapeptic, and I assume it had something to do with dyspepsia.

The content of the posts did nothing to disabuse me of this notion. That being said, a nice turnaround! Bravo!
posted by mzurer at 2:19 PM on September 26, 2005

I suggest MetaTalk(RedundancyDivision), or MeTaRD, if you like.
posted by 23skidoo at 2:21 PM on September 26, 2005

but do you mean that it's less than pointless than two other callouts or merely that there were 3 callouts that qualified as "most pointless" of which it was chronologically the third?

Actually, upon further review, I would have difficulty making an argument that this callout is the third most pointless callout. I had meant that there were two callouts that I could have argued were even more pointless, but I think that I could probably only seriously claim that one of them is more pointless, while the other, though still pointless, is probably slightly less pointless than this one.

I can restate that last paragraph in an even less clear manner if any of my meaning actually managed to creep through. Or we could ask MrMoonPie to rewrite it in anapestic tetrameter.
posted by anapestic at 2:24 PM on September 26, 2005

But "meter" does not scan like "syntax,"
As is clear by the line writ above.
Just a bit of poetical license, I guess.

That is all,
MrMoonPie,
with love.
posted by MrMoonPie at 2:27 PM on September 26, 2005

I suggest MetaTalk(RedundancyDivision), or MeTaRD, if you like.

I am shocked, shocked, at your lack of sensitivity to the developmentally challenged community. Todd Lokken.
posted by Specklet at 2:30 PM on September 26, 2005

Heh, my site stats are showing repeated hits from someone searching my site for "begging" after a visit from my Metafilter profile page. Hope that answered your question, anapestic.
posted by brownpau at 2:31 PM on September 26, 2005

So, with the use of this new division, would we then say the phrase, "ATM machine" has been "Metarded"?

Ooh, I like it!
posted by fandango_matt at 2:33 PM on September 26, 2005

Someone should really do a separate MeTa thread for the Todd Lokken thing, but maybe it can wait a little while longer. Todd Lokken.
posted by yhbc at 2:35 PM on September 26, 2005

Todd Lokken

Since you ("cheerfully") raise the point, it's not so much whether you think the jokes are funny that cause the derails within the comments on the post about the derails (MetaDerails? Todd Lokken) - it's your seeming inability to recognize that the comments are jokes at all.

anapestic: "However, some of the rest of you might try to consider that if someone else doesn't find your joke funny, there is at least a possibility that your joke is as much to blame as the sense of humor of the person who doesn't laugh at it."
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:35 PM on September 26, 2005

Please disregard whatever I said. It was someone else.
posted by brownpau at 2:37 PM on September 26, 2005

As an English major, I find this thread extremely amusing.
posted by thanotopsis at 2:40 PM on September 26, 2005

I am sorry if this information disappoints you, brownpau, but I have not, to the best of my knowledge, ever visited your website, and I certainly haven't today. I suspect that someone else was trying to determine whether you were joking.

From your MeFi profile, however (cool colors), I see that you're local, so the question that I'd like answered is why all the good ethnic restaurants in the DC area are out in the suburbs.
posted by anapestic at 2:42 PM on September 26, 2005

Today I learned a new word and found a nice recipe for Ziti with Greens, Eggs, and Ham. Thank you anapestic.
posted by caddis at 2:46 PM on September 26, 2005

anapestic, it's because that's the only place recent immigrants can afford to live now. Exceptions include Ethiopean and Salvadorean food, as well as some good Chinese.
posted by mzurer at 2:47 PM on September 26, 2005

*sigh*


"The only thing I hate more than incorrect usage is when it's defended with, "Well, everyone else is doing it, so it's okay." "

I always thought that if everyone else did it (in language), it becomes ok.
posted by Smedleyman at 2:48 PM on September 26, 2005

No. No, no, no. That's called laziness.
posted by fandango_matt at 2:55 PM on September 26, 2005

it's your seeming inability to recognize that the comments are jokes at all.

Well, yeah. But I think the same analysis applies. You may think your joke is the funniest joke in the world, but if someone else doesn't spot it as a joke, it is maybe not that funny.

I do feel kind of dumb for not seeing that "up with which you grew" was a joke, though.

I always thought that if everyone else did it (in language), it becomes ok.

It does. But it shouldn't.
posted by anapestic at 2:56 PM on September 26, 2005

Through such laziness we have moved beyond Middle English.
posted by caddis at 2:56 PM on September 26, 2005

Speke forre yovrselff, caddis.
posted by MrMoonPie at 3:01 PM on September 26, 2005

Smedleyman: "I always thought that if everyone else did it (in language), it becomes ok."

Would you jump off a linguistic bridge, just because everyone else was doing it, Smedleyman? Would you run with metaphoric scizzors?

Just say no to {r4{k!!!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:03 PM on September 26, 2005

What if the bridge was only a few feet above the water, and it was a hot day, and a truck was about to run you over? Everyone else would be happily splashing about in the water, and you'd be trying to halt a truck with metaphorical scissors. You could cut the fuel line, but the truck's momentum would still carry it over you, and then the leaking gas would explode and incinerate your lifeless body.
posted by anapestic at 3:09 PM on September 26, 2005

First, it wasn't veedubya who derailed. Veedubya was derailed

What? He may not have been the first to start the derail, but it was xowie's post that got derailed. And yes, showing up here to say that's cool is retarded and worth challenge.
posted by scarabic at 3:17 PM on September 26, 2005

Now, see - that made me laugh, anapestic. Primarily because you felt compelled to correct "metaphoric scizzors."
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:26 PM on September 26, 2005

Ah. And here I thought that the repeated redundency jokes were Meta humor.
Todd Lokken.
posted by klangklangston at 3:27 PM on September 26, 2005

If I can make you laugh, Flo, and give caddis a good recipe, I will, of course, consider the day to have been a productive one. Naturally, I would be beside myself with delight if I could also manage to stop even one person from improperly using "begging the question," but there are some things that a man dare not hope for.
posted by anapestic at 3:35 PM on September 26, 2005

Ah, so syntactic change is not progress or change, it is laziness that needs to be culled. Or simple conformity. So which group of users is ‘correct’? Which year should we benchmark as the final rule?
How about 1926? We could use H.W. Fowler’s Dictionary of Modern English Usage.
What shall we then do with modern verbless constructions (say, the phrase “as/so far as”)?
Since it’s an 18th century innovation - I’m sorry, laziness, which lazily replaced earlier methods of restricting the topic of discourse.
We could perhaps rewrite Moby Dick - ”So far as what there may be of a narrative in this book” is clearly poor grammar from the earlier rule.

Do we bring back thee and thou? Whom will?
Do we go back to William Caxton?
Do we abolish historical linguistics?

Adopt a language usage agency like the French have?

English was codified by arguments over the sanctioning of the bible and to show off one’s education.
The new standard is for effective communication, not to impress others.

Quote/follow Strunk and White's Element's of Style or the U of Chicago or Webster's Dictionary of the American Language or McGuffey's Eclectic Readers as much as you like.
We don’t have an academy. We don’t have a standard vocabulary. We can adapt for richness and shades of meaning and modern usage, ‘yo.

That aside, I’m not arguing wrong or right here, but emphasis.
I’m in favor of avoiding chaos in the language, but if it facilitates clear understanding and is pleasing to the aesthetic inner ear let it be. Tag it or whatever turns you on.
Otherwise you’re just promoting snobbery.
posted by Smedleyman at 3:49 PM on September 26, 2005

From your MeFi profile, however (cool colors), I see that you're local...

In the spirit of language whoring, I'd like to see suggested alternatives to the above rendering. What anapestic means is clear enough, but the juxtaposition of however and (cool colors) seems shriekingly wrong. As written, it's as if however somehow has cool colors worth mentioning parenthetically.

From your Mefi profile (cool colors), however, I see that you're local...

This seems more 'correct', though I don't like it much because the (cool colors) interjection pushes off the comma however comma construction in a way I can only describe as ooky.

Ideas?
posted by cortex at 3:56 PM on September 26, 2005

ToddLokkenFilter: promoting snobbery since 1999
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:57 PM on September 26, 2005

I thought they were however warm colors.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 4:05 PM on September 26, 2005

I passed the port to the right in a thread yesterday.

I'm so utterly, utterly sorry.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 4:06 PM on September 26, 2005

>Ideas?
This is easy; the correct version is "From your MeFi profile, however (cool tapes), I see that you're local..."
posted by Wolfdog at 4:22 PM on September 26, 2005

"From your Mefi profile (cool colors), however, I see that you're local..."

my preferance:

I can see from your h'outfit that you are a cowboy, bum bum bump...
- pumpkin rapist

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0102536/

The however is abbreviated to h' just before the modified word.

So:
From your Mefi profile (cool colors) h'i see that you're local.


...sorry, I just dropped acid.
posted by Smedleyman at 4:24 PM on September 26, 2005

Sorry, h'I meant modified fragment.
posted by Smedleyman at 4:28 PM on September 26, 2005

The irony of all this, to me at least, is anapestic has the funniest lines.
posted by elwoodwiles at 4:38 PM on September 26, 2005

I passed the port to the right in a thread yesterday. I'm so utterly, utterly sorry.

You should be. You can't pass port in a thread, not even any old port in a storm in a thread. And you can't derail a thread. You can derail a train--perhaps even a train of thought--which may then plunge off a linguistic or philosophical bridge, but even if you ran with metaphorical scissors and derailed a thread, it would do piss-all in the way of damage.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 4:45 PM on September 26, 2005

anapestic, go have a brew at the Olney Ale House (tomorrow. they aren't open on mondays). drink, repeat. loosen up.
posted by terrapin at 4:48 PM on September 26, 2005

"I always thought that if everyone else did it (in language), it becomes ok.

It does. But it shouldn't."

I missed that comment. Well hell, that settles it.
posted by Smedleyman at 5:38 PM on September 26, 2005

"I passed the port to the right in a thread yesterday."
I passed the dutchie on the left hand side.
posted by klangklangston at 6:08 PM on September 26, 2005

You know, Batman Begins will most probably survive as the sole worthy successor to Burton's 1989 and 1992 films.
posted by gramschmidt at 8:12 PM on September 26, 2005

Todd Lokken.
posted by kenko at 8:21 PM on September 26, 2005

kenko, I believe you meant to say:

Todd Lokken. Todd Lokken.
posted by yhbc at 8:32 PM on September 26, 2005

anapestic wrote: Naturally, I would be beside myself with delight if I could also manage to stop even one person from improperly using "begging the question," but there are some things that a man dare not hope for.

Um, isn't this begging the question of how you would ever know that you've managed to "stop" the behaviour?
posted by birdsquared at 9:06 PM on September 26, 2005

I'm a big fan of tuna fish.
posted by dreamsign at 9:17 PM on September 26, 2005

I'm a big bucket of anchovies.
posted by Stauf at 10:00 PM on September 26, 2005

yhbc: "kenko, I believe you meant to say:

Todd Lokken. Todd Lokken."

No, I was holding my peace, see.
posted by kenko at 10:00 PM on September 26, 2005

'Whatcha Doin?"

"Todd Lokken.

You?"

Todd Lokken
posted by soyjoy at 10:20 PM on September 26, 2005

Todd.
shmegegge : "'But because scarabic...' But shouldn't begin a sentence."

In most cases, including the "But because scarabic..." case, that is true, but it is not always true. Sentences can start with "But for", as in "But for the nickel in my pocket, I am penniless" (though note that I've never actually started a sentence with "But for...", so I'm not too secure with it, and my example sentence above may be a bit wrong. Still, hopefully, you can see what type of "But" starting sentence I'm describing.)
Lokken.
posted by Bugbread at 11:04 PM on September 26, 2005

"But for what reason?" Would that, then, be an ok use of "But" at the beginning of a sentence?
posted by shmegegge at 12:04 AM on September 27, 2005

so who's going to be the one to drop the fiver for a Todd Lokken account?
posted by shmegegge at 12:04 AM on September 27, 2005

Shmeggege,

Nope. The "But" in "But for..." means "Except", and, as such, a second part is necessary (My grammar is passable but unfortunately I know NO actual grammatical terms...argh!)

X = "Except for Jim."
O = "Except for Jim, everyone went."

"But" at the start of a sentence would work the same way...
posted by Bugbread at 12:18 AM on September 27, 2005

Oops, sorry shmegegge, I moved your 'g's around.
posted by Bugbread at 12:21 AM on September 27, 2005

hey at least you're trying. most people seem to think it's easier just to type schmegwhatever. which never... ever... gets old.
posted by shmegegge at 5:16 AM on September 27, 2005

why is this the first thing that google gives me when I search for Todd Lokken?

um...
posted by shmegegge at 5:18 AM on September 27, 2005

but there are some things that a man dare not hope for.

Hey, zip your pants and put that participle where decent folks don't have to view it. ...dangling it all about like that. To what is the world coming?
posted by thanotopsis at 6:08 AM on September 27, 2005

Stop, stop.

(yes, it was worth the fiver now leave me alone).
posted by Todd Lokken at 8:00 AM on September 27, 2005

But I like beginning sentences with conjunctions!

*punches Strunk's mother in the face*
posted by cortex at 9:51 AM on September 27, 2005

Todd,
Welcome, you are a good sport.

ps.

Please don't sign your posts with this either.

(yes, it was worth the fiver now leave me alone).

Or rather, please do.
posted by Divine_Wino at 10:04 AM on September 27, 2005

Divine: I believe he's different from the Lokken who was actually signing his posts "Todd Lokken." Though I do hope this sock puppet appears whenever Lokken-alpha posts again...
posted by klangklangston at 10:18 AM on September 27, 2005

klangklangston,
I saw that but I am in a benefit of the doubt mood, for at least the next five minutes.
posted by Divine_Wino at 10:29 AM on September 27, 2005

He should sign his posts "toddlok" instead.
posted by grouse at 10:43 AM on September 27, 2005

Metafilter: So good you'll punch Todd Lokken in the face. Todd Lokken.
posted by Hlewagast at 10:49 AM on September 27, 2005

Divine: I believe he's different from the Lokken who was actually signing his posts "Todd Lokken." Though I do hope this sock puppet appears whenever Lokken-alpha posts again...

He is a silly imposter who didn't even know he could use his whole name when signing up. If he reappears, I will crush him, CRUSH HIM, I tell you! Todd Lokken
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 11:26 AM on September 27, 2005

Matt has politely requested we knock off the you-know-what. You Know What.
posted by yhbc at 1:45 PM on September 27, 2005

MetaFilter: You Know What
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:33 PM on September 27, 2005

He requested what? I don't see a post there!
(I am deeply, deeply sorry Todd).
posted by klangklangston at 6:48 PM on September 27, 2005

That's bizarre. Did Matt comment in the You-Know-What thread, and then delete it? Because that's what your link suggests, commish. Please elucidate.

You-know-what
posted by soyjoy at 7:45 PM on September 27, 2005

Hmm. Yes, he did, and I linked to his last comment, which was:

"This was new to me as well, but I just talked to Todd and he admits he made a newbie mistake and it won't happen again.

So I'm closing this thread and asking people to lay off the newbie bashing for a bit, if you could. Thanks." -- posted by mathowie at 1:32 PM PST on September 27 [!]

Sometime after I linked to it, he apparently decided it was better to just delete the thread entirely.

Thanks go to the mysterious jrun for saving a copy of the comment and posting it on MetaChat
posted by yhbc at 8:54 PM on September 27, 2005

Almost forgot. You Know What.
posted by yhbc at 8:55 PM on September 27, 2005

I hope poor Todd doesn't find Crash's post. Ouch.
posted by caddis at 9:16 PM on September 27, 2005

I can't have ANY fun any more. Here's the post I was just making to jonson's "WTF is the deal with Crash's post?" thread, literally seconds before mathowie closed that one too:

"I was just reading that thread, and didn't get it either, until I scrolled back up to the top and saw that it had just been deleted.

Lame? - perhaps, but definitely too obscure, crash. Must. Try. Harder."
posted by yhbc at 9:27 PM on September 27, 2005