Comments on 10614

My girlfriend's sister is pregnant.

My girlfriend and I are both grad students in our late 20s. We've been together five years and are seriously talking about getting engaged. Also, I don't know if this matters or not, but my girlfriend is blind. We both have a close friendly relationship with her younger sister, a college student.

When my girlfriend went out town last month for a conference, the sister and I hung out a bit at my apartment. We started drinking a little, things got out of hand and we had sex. The next morning we decided it was just a fluke, would never happen again and would be best forgotten. Everything seemed cool.

Until today. My girlfriend's sister called me today and told me she's pregnant. She says she hasn't been with anyone besides me in half a year, and I believe her. She won't get an abortion, for religion reasons.

She says she doesn't want to ruin my relationship with my girlfriend or tell anyone the baby is mine, but I know she's going to be under a lot of pressure to reveal the father. Additionally, I am rather racially distinctive and it's likely this baby will obviously resemble me.

To be honest, if I didn't think my girlfriend would find out about this, I wouldn't tell her. I love my girlfriend with all my heart and I cannot imagine life without her. I do not want to lose her. How can I keep this from ruining everything we have together?
posted by lazy-ville to human relations at 5:56 AM PST ( pregnant girlfriend relationship dickwadboyfriend askingforafriend )

posted by jessamyn at 11:21 AM on November 22, 2005

Jessamyn: I think you should tell her.

(Yes, I know)
posted by Plutor at 11:22 AM on November 22, 2005

People had some fun, people had some drama, people had some laughs, and an admin probably has an ulcer now. Let's let it all go and forge on ahead to a great big beautiful tomorrow.
posted by brownpau at 11:24 AM on November 22, 2005

Well, I figure P_G had options. He could've (1) contacted an admin (2) post insulting answers to the thread and later called it out on meta. #1 would be handling the situation like an adult. #2 would be handling it like an idiot. Personally, I was very upset by P_G's behavior--to the point where I was preparing to call him out. He turned out to be right, yes, but he handled the situation in a way designed to piss off people for no good reason.

Anyways, I guess the fake question thing is a no-no.
posted by nixerman at 11:25 AM on November 22, 2005

Actually nixerman, in that same MeCha thread linked by selfnoise, P_G admits to being in on the fakery: "The "religious reasons" bit and the engagement bit were mine."
posted by Gator at 11:26 AM on November 22, 2005

Fake questions are stupid and dilute the usefulness of askme quite a bit, because they take advantage of trust and insult people who take the trouble to answer. Why not just post a hypothetical question and make it interesting enough to create a good and informative discussion?

Even I, the lunatic king of nonlinear shit talking, see the value of having askme not be polluted with this kind of crap.
posted by Divine_Wino at 11:27 AM on November 22, 2005

Who spiked the punch today? Cmon, fess up.
posted by CunningLinguist at 11:28 AM on November 22, 2005

I widdled in it. Who knew my urine was so psychedelic? Must be all those toads I've been swallowing (you know, for kicks).
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 11:30 AM on November 22, 2005

Actually nixerman, in that same MeCha thread linked by selfnoise, P_G admits to being in on the fakery: "The "religious reasons" bit and the engagement bit were mine."

!!!!

!!!!
posted by SeizeTheDay at 11:30 AM on November 22, 2005

(a) I suppose there's a legitimate question of policy and/or etiquette here. We disallow lawsuits based in collusion even when they might address points worthy of being settled by a court; but AskMe isn't court, and theoretical questions have been allowed in the past. We've discussed homework AskMe before; and the admin consensus was that if homework is ostensibly banned, people will just stop admitting their true intents. Doesn't prohibiting "fake questions" raise the same problem?

(b) Y'all keep closing and deleting threads, and the hydra keeps poppin' heads. Take the hint; and either leave a thread open to run aground at 150+ posts, or start issuing bans.
posted by cribcage at 11:30 AM on November 22, 2005

see, now some poor bastard who's knocked up his blind girlfriend's sister is going to have to get by without asking metafilter, and that's the real tragedy here.
posted by quonsar at 11:31 AM on November 22, 2005

So did lazy-ville email P_G to tell him the question was a fake? I was following the thread, but apparently missed all the drama.
posted by chunking express at 11:32 AM on November 22, 2005

It does seem like a cabal thing.
posted by thirteenkiller at 11:34 AM on November 22, 2005

There is no cabal.
posted by spinoza at 11:36 AM on November 22, 2005

cribcage: theoretical questions have been allowed in the past. We've discussed homework AskMe before; and the admin consensus was that if homework is ostensibly banned, people will just stop admitting their true intents. Doesn't prohibiting "fake questions" raise the same problem?

I don't see why. The policy is honesty first (presumably, policy is never very clear around here), hence homework questions and hypotheticals are allowed, but not fakes.
posted by Chuckles at 11:42 AM on November 22, 2005

Cans of worms! Gitcher cans of worms! Already opened, ready to go! Cans of worms!
posted by cortex at 11:42 AM on November 22, 2005

lazy-ville and P_G are both banned for it.

It's totally fucked up to abuse ask metafilter for shits and giggles. It fucks with everyone's sense of trust -- people really were answering the question seriously and trying to offer help, and to hear it was all some stupid fucking joke is really lame. Amid the serious answers counseling the person asking the question, Pretty_Generic offered the advice of throwing a pregnant woman down some stairs. Not knowing it was fake, that was pretty fucked up.

Anyway, enough of this bullshit and fucking around with the community. I'll leave this hydra of a thread open, but after seeing someone use Ask MeFi last week to commit mail fraud on ebay, and now to see people purposely making up fake questions to goad people into answering them, well, I'm just pissed about the whole thing.
posted by mathowie at 11:43 AM on November 22, 2005

I leave for 5 minutes, and this place goes bonkers.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:43 AM on November 22, 2005 [1 favorite]

posted by gramschmidt at 11:44 AM on November 22, 2005

Why does my ass stink?
posted by mischief at 11:44 AM on November 22, 2005

What's the closest thing to a fishes' asshole?
posted by Floydd at 11:45 AM on November 22, 2005

ThePinkSuperhero: "I leave for 5 minutes, and this place goes bonkers."

I also blame you. Shame.
posted by Plutor at 11:46 AM on November 22, 2005

A fishes' taint, near as I can tell.
posted by five fresh fish at 11:51 AM on November 22, 2005

Pretty_Generic offered the advice of throwing a pregnant woman down some stairs. Not knowing it was fake, that was pretty fucked up.

But P_G claims he did know it was fake. Just sayin'.
posted by WolfDaddy at 11:52 AM on November 22, 2005

I think maybe Matt meant that because he, Matt, did not know that the situation was a fakery, he, Matt, found the comment all the more fucked up.
posted by cortex at 11:56 AM on November 22, 2005

These are fake AskMe questions.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 11:57 AM on November 22, 2005

turns out that P_G also helped write the question, so it's not just for the asshole comment.
posted by mathowie at 11:57 AM on November 22, 2005

So *that's* what Gollum really looks like.
posted by Tuwa at 11:57 AM on November 22, 2005

This is the first result for a Google Search for "fake askme questions".
posted by Plutor at 12:02 PM on November 22, 2005

Plutor: I also blame you. Shame.

::hangs head in shame::
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 12:09 PM on November 22, 2005 [1 favorite]

A fishes' taint, near as I can tell.
posted by five fresh fish

Nope, it's a Finn!
posted by Floydd at 12:09 PM on November 22, 2005

Leave my beloved Finns out of this!
posted by scody at 12:20 PM on November 22, 2005

The End.
posted by brownpau at 12:22 PM on November 22, 2005

OR IS IT?
posted by wakko at 12:32 PM on November 22, 2005

I hope you're rapin' people's wives in heaven, peeg! See you at the crossroadz bro.
posted by moift at 12:35 PM on November 22, 2005

pour out a lil' liquor for my dead homies.
posted by wakko at 12:49 PM on November 22, 2005

It does seem like a cabal thing.
posted by thirteenkiller at 11:34 AM PST on November 22 [!]

Oh the Cabal™ would never post such a lame troll as this. Though points on getting Haughey all hot & bothered.
posted by Dreamghost at 12:51 PM on November 22, 2005

thirteenkiller is a cabal operative

(YOU JUST GOT CHENEY'D)
posted by moift at 12:55 PM on November 22, 2005

How do you feel now Heishehui Plame!
posted by Dreamghost at 12:59 PM on November 22, 2005

Hey can I be in the cabal?

I mean, I don't knit or anything, but I can drink any one of you bastards under the table
posted by cmonkey at 1:01 PM on November 22, 2005

Seriously, there is no cabal
posted by jenovus at 1:03 PM on November 22, 2005

cmonkey cheats: he starts under the table
posted by cortex at 1:08 PM on November 22, 2005

Hey, if you wake up drunk, it's easy to keep going!
posted by cmonkey at 1:09 PM on November 22, 2005

This could only be better if P_G and L_V were playing sockpuppet with each other. Has anyone ever seen them in the same room at the same time?
posted by grateful at 1:22 PM on November 22, 2005

hey, cmonkey, have another one. it's on the team.

i'm hoping cortex has got cheerleaders hidden away somewhere.
posted by andrew cooke at 1:24 PM on November 22, 2005

You're damn right I do, and if I don't see that half million by noon tomorrow they'll have show-n-goed their last back-tucks.
posted by cortex at 1:35 PM on November 22, 2005

cortex plz reveal hidden cheerleaders. tia
posted by Dreamghost at 1:35 PM on November 22, 2005

I blame Live Preview for causing all of Americas Economic Problems & Peak Oil.
posted by Dreamghost at 1:37 PM on November 22, 2005

None of this would have happened before the 30kers showed up.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 1:38 PM on November 22, 2005

Facials: Cheerleaders can't compete with frowns on their faces! Facials help get the crowd excited and impress the judges big time! The goal is: make it look like your having the time of your life...even if you are so nervous or scared you want to leave...
posted by cortex at 1:43 PM on November 22, 2005

THERE IS NO CABAL.

(and if there was, we wouldn't invite Dreamghost anyway)
posted by eyeballkid at 2:36 PM on November 22, 2005

Man. Have all the Americans gone bugshit crazy because of Thanksgiving, or what?
posted by jokeefe at 2:40 PM on November 22, 2005

Well im not saying there is a CABAL. Cause we all know that there is not one. But if there was a CABAL, its kinda hard to invite someone who is already a member. Just Saying...

But like you said THERE IS NO CABAL
posted by Dreamghost at 2:41 PM on November 22, 2005

Dear MetaTalk,

Would you mind terribly putting a fucking sock in it? Thanks everso.

Yours,
gleuschk
posted by gleuschk at 3:02 PM on November 22, 2005

Cabals are so outdated.
posted by cCranium at 3:04 PM on November 22, 2005

I was a member of a cabal for a while, but when I found out I couldn't get HBO there, I left.
posted by frykitty at 3:05 PM on November 22, 2005

Ohh, I get it.

It's DIGITAL cabal.
posted by Floydd at 3:22 PM on November 22, 2005

.
posted by sgt.serenity at 3:44 PM on November 22, 2005

OMG SGT. SERENITY! I TOTALLY REMEMBER HER!
posted by eyeballkid at 3:51 PM on November 22, 2005

It's HIGH DEFINITION cabal. But not via satellite, sadly.
posted by WolfDaddy at 3:52 PM on November 22, 2005

We could use a cabal. My shoes have holes.
posted by Smart Dalek at 4:18 PM on November 22, 2005

There is always something to be learned, even from fake questions.
posted by euphorb at 4:43 PM on November 22, 2005

People, please: it's cabala. Madonna practices it and everything!
posted by scody at 4:52 PM on November 22, 2005

What in the name of sentient mung bean stuffed cabbages is going on here?

Shit. I go get a job and am gone for a whole 18 odd hours between going to sleep and coming home from my first day at work and it's like you all feasted on a really bad batch of ergot infested rye bread and started flagellating yourselves with live, flensed hyenas dipped in the mushroom-blood of Christ!

FUCKING SHARE, GODDAMNIT. SHARING IS MANDATORY.
posted by loquacious at 5:18 PM on November 22, 2005

Man. Have all the Americans gone bugshit crazy because of Thanksgiving, or what?

It's the mushrooms.
posted by Paris Hilton at 5:36 PM on November 22, 2005

P_G got banned? After almost 3,800 comments? That's pretty hardcore.

Obviously crapping in ask is lame, but maybe just a timeout is necessary.
posted by delmoi at 5:40 PM on November 22, 2005

I'm going to have to agree with delmoi. A time out? Sure. Banning? Meh. I dunno.
posted by loquacious at 6:15 PM on November 22, 2005

I really wish I hadn't posted this thread. I feel dirty.

And delmoi, what P_G was more than lame. The 30,000 cabal comments in this thread are lame. 24 hour pizza parlors that close at 4am to "mop the floor" are lame. Kansas is lame. But none of these things demonstrate the total lack of respect for others embodied in P_G's stunt. You'd think he must hate this place or something to do what he did. It reeks of the kind of childish maliciousness you only find in the truest assholes. Good riddance, I say.
posted by nixerman at 6:19 PM on November 22, 2005

Kansas the band or Kansas the state?

I mean, I think both are lame. Although when I was a kid we stayed at a hotel in Kansas with a really nice indoor pool.

Kansas the state, I mean.
posted by selfnoise at 6:25 PM on November 22, 2005

I hope it is just a timeout. If it is a permanent banning then Matt has lost his mind. I could see banning LV for posting the question, but even if he suggested it to LV, PG did not post it, and his comments were not that outrageous given that the whole thing was fake. Matt has always shown good judgement so I am sure things will work out for PG that is unless he is getting all corporate and stuff now that this is a proper business.
posted by caddis at 6:35 PM on November 22, 2005

A question on the internet about something that couldn't conceivably effect me anyway turned out to be fake. WHO WILL PAY THE PRICE OF MY LOST INNOCENCE????

At least un "brisket" owen asked for money. What did this really cost? You can pretend maybe that we all answer AskMe questions out of the sheer goodness of our hearts but we actually do it because we enjoy it. We even enjoyed answering this question until PG clued us in. Honestly I don't know why anyone gives a shit and I don't know why PG is banned. Wasn't he just the bearer of the apparently really bad news anyway?
posted by moift at 6:40 PM on November 22, 2005

But none of these things demonstrate the total lack of respect for others embodied in P_G's stunt. You'd think he must hate this place or something to do what he did. It reeks of the kind of childish maliciousness you only find in the truest assholes. Good riddance, I say.

I agree that it was childish. Malicious? Maybe, but Pretty_Generic has been around for a long time, for better or worse. This is hardly Dhoyt level antics we're talking about here, it's one lame thread out of hundreds posted this week.

I'm all for keeping Ask B.S. Free, and I wouldn't want to see him do it again. But Banishment is so over the top. Look at this in terms of actual harm done, not level of 'disrespect'.

Although it is pretty weird that someone who's been around for so long would pull a stunt like that. Oh well.
posted by delmoi at 6:48 PM on November 22, 2005

I hope it is just a timeout. If it is a permanent banning then Matt has lost his mind.

It's just a username, folks.

I thought these were pretty funny, but I know nothing.
posted by mrgrimm at 6:49 PM on November 22, 2005

Also P_G now says (on metachat) he didn't have anything to do with the post other then knowing it was fake, which he informed us about...
posted by delmoi at 6:51 PM on November 22, 2005

It's just a username, folks.

Not after:
posting 194 links and 2774 comments to MetaFilter
and 30 threads and 515 comments to MetaTalk
and 32 questions and 251 answers to Ask MetaFilter
posted by caddis at 7:01 PM on November 22, 2005

A mistake that costs $5 to fix. Maybe.
posted by Rothko at 7:04 PM on November 22, 2005

another cabal heard from.
posted by quonsar at 7:07 PM on November 22, 2005

All posts are © their original authors.
posted by mrgrimm at 7:08 PM on November 22, 2005

http://www.geocities.com/freeprettygeneric
posted by moift at 7:11 PM on November 22, 2005

*shakes head*
posted by Rothko at 7:13 PM on November 22, 2005

Dhoyt is behind this.
posted by Krrrlson at 7:15 PM on November 22, 2005

To the best of my knowledge, it's just a timeout, just like the October timeout was a timeout. Seems like this sort of thing happens every few months.
posted by jessamyn at 7:17 PM on November 22, 2005

Although it is pretty weird that someone who's been around for so long would pull a stunt like that.

What are you talking about? P_G has repeatedly shown stunning contempt for other users and for any concept of community here, and has tried to establish himself as one of the most outre, no-holds-barred, "mischievous" users around through numerous other little games and stunts.

I also agree that a timeout seems (to me, getting all of this third-hand) more appropriate than a lifetime ban, but come on, let's not pretend he's some model user who suddenly went off on a lark.
posted by soyjoy at 7:19 PM on November 22, 2005

Since nobody's commented on it yet, well played, KevinSkomsvold. Well played, indeed.
posted by Alt F4 at 7:19 PM on November 22, 2005

woot, 9 minutes from activist site to vindication.
posted by moift at 7:21 PM on November 22, 2005

So how do I welcome these particular overlords? Are the cabalers or cabalist?
posted by Carbolic at 7:24 PM on November 22, 2005

So how do I welcome these particular overlords? Are the cabalers or cabalist?

welcome them singly ... saying "i, for two, welcome our new cabalist overlords" might make people think you're crazy
posted by pyramid termite at 7:31 PM on November 22, 2005

CABALLEROS
posted by jenovus at 7:32 PM on November 22, 2005

<3
Mwah!
posted by cortex at 7:39 PM on November 22, 2005

What did this really cost?

People in the thread will trust Ask MeFi less from here on out. If this starts happening all the time, Ask MeFi becomes pointless and people that used to offer good answers will avoid it. That's damaging to the community.

P_G has pulled asshole antics many times and I've deleted oodles of stupid joke "answers" on ask mefi and he's been given temp bans several times. I don't think he's acting like an adult enough to bring him back. lazy-ville once asked a question that actually made me contact other members to find help for him offline. And this is the thanks I get?

I know I'm overreacting, but I'm tired of adults acting like kids and fucking around with something good like Ask MetaFilter. Fuck them for trying to poison the best part of this entire site.
posted by mathowie at 7:56 PM on November 22, 2005

If you really feel that way then what about just banning them from AskMefi?
posted by euphorb at 8:03 PM on November 22, 2005

OK, Matt has lost his ~~mind~~ temper. Don't let it become the mind Matt, that is a terrible thing to waste. Sleep on it and think about things tomorrow or whenever you cool off. PG has probably gotten all of us in a dander now and then, and also given us the giggles at times. He didn't post this piece of crap into AskMe, he just riffed on it when it was there because he knew it was false. Lame, yes; criminal, no.
posted by caddis at 8:04 PM on November 22, 2005

you know matt, ask mefi isn't all that and a bag of chips. can you say 'perspective'?
posted by quonsar at 8:06 PM on November 22, 2005

I guess I'm just not getting the doomsday angle. It looks to me like a joke, one that didn't agree with everyone, as jokes are wont not to do, but a joke that was relatively inconsequential because (a) it didn't build up any real investment on our parts to the outcome of the "problem" and (b) he came clean very quickly.

I don't know anything about this really apart from this thread and his MeTa, but isn't (b) pretty much the extent of his responsibility? And the crap answer, which makes sense given he knew there wasn't really anyone to push down any stairs, and he also knew that the question was going away, because he posted the MeTA. lazyville, you can have. Honestly, I'm willing to concede loquacious if it will speed the healing process. Making you bring forum content into real life is not fair. AskMe does seem like a fragile e-cosystem (did I coin that? that's going straight into web 2.0, just watch), I just don't see this as either an insidious threat or even a serious transgression of trust.
posted by moift at 8:11 PM on November 22, 2005

I know I'm overreacting

FWIW, I don't think you are overreacting.
posted by sennoma at 8:12 PM on November 22, 2005

There's been a lot of closed threads lately, come to that. I'm guessing that Matt is human and stressed about something else entirely.
posted by Ryvar at 8:20 PM on November 22, 2005

stressed about something else entirely
How about the 200 or so gripes about minor layour issues in the past couple days? Most of them dupes of the same 2 or 3 real issues. Dealing with customers is such a pain in the ass :/
posted by moift at 8:22 PM on November 22, 2005

I think AskMeta *is* all that and a bag of chips, and I don't think you overreacted at all, Matt, and good for you. ::high five::
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 8:24 PM on November 22, 2005 [1 favorite]

There's been a lot of closed threads lately, come to that. I'm guessing that Matt is human and stressed about something else entirely.

I'm just closing stuff when the original problem is solved, because invariably four more bugs are mentioned in latter comments that I never see and I lose track of them.

I'm not stressed about anything and I'm not saying ask mefi is the sacred parchment, but of the four sections of MetaFilter it's definitely got the best signal-to-noise ratio by a mile. If people want to pull antics, do it somewhere else (chat, metachat, whatever). I don't want to see the best part of MetaFilter succumb to a bunch of IRC in-jokes from a handful of dorks.
posted by mathowie at 8:27 PM on November 22, 2005

As the evidence will show Pretty Generic drinks online and sits alone in a stark room with an amateurish painting of a horse. He deserves pity and a short leash on mefi and new paintings.
posted by holloway at 8:31 PM on November 22, 2005

It was a lousy stunt, but PG didn't post the question, so it seems unfair to ban him for it.
posted by CunningLinguist at 8:39 PM on November 22, 2005

handful of IRC dorks
When will we stop this protocol on protocol violence? It's all one internet. :[
posted by moift at 8:49 PM on November 22, 2005

Is there a published procedure anywhere so we don't get banned if for calling out a bogus ask.mefi posting?
posted by nearlife at 8:49 PM on November 22, 2005

P_G posted this to metachat in the thread linked above:

The "religious reasons" bit and the engagement bit were mine.

I want to post this but I'll get banned: I'd suggest kicking her down the stairs, but trailers don't have stairs.

Seems he had a hand in coming up with the joke question, and knew his comment was inappropriate. But he did it anyway.
posted by mathowie at 8:54 PM on November 22, 2005

I'm not really following the whole thing, but banning P_G is no loss whatsoever. I'm pleased he finally stepped over the mathowie line and met with the business end of the banhammer.

lazy_ville I have no knowledge of or opinion on.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:58 PM on November 22, 2005

Oh, right, so PP can call for the immediate bombing of a country of 70 million people and it's all fine and dandy, but PG gets banned for advocating a single backyard abortion.

GEEK RAGE!!!!!
posted by Jimbob at 9:06 PM on November 22, 2005

At least un "brisket" owen asked for money.

"Brisket". Heh.
posted by Kwantsar at 9:06 PM on November 22, 2005

If I say, "balls," will everyone giggle a little?
posted by Jon-o at 9:14 PM on November 22, 2005

/me giggles
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 9:15 PM on November 22, 2005

Best part of the site?

And when did Steve come back?

Auntie Em?
posted by yhbc at 9:18 PM on November 22, 2005

I don't want to see the best part of MetaFilter succumb to a bunch of IRC in-jokes from a handful of dorks.

Matt's several times more tolerant than I'd be with half this stuff, which I guess is the difference between benevolent dictator and tyrant. He's Augustus Caesar to my Caligula.
posted by geoff. at 9:26 PM on November 22, 2005

Just to add an outsider's (Well, as close to an outsider as one could be while still being a member) opinion, the abuse of AskMe by a longtime member is a huge breach of trust and pretty disrespectful to the community.
If it had been done by a n00b, the vast majority of comments would be calls for flogging and quartering in the MeFi square, after which the four pieces would be crucified on a quartet of tiny lil' crosses.
Just sayin'.
/scurries back under the porch
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:27 PM on November 22, 2005

Wait...what's this about ebay scams? Zuh? Man, this damn soap opera doesn't take a day off, does it?
posted by graventy at 9:30 PM on November 22, 2005

Steven Linnwood look what you've done.
posted by moift at 9:33 PM on November 22, 2005

mathowie: I know I'm overreacting, but I'm tired of adults acting like kids and fucking around with something good like Ask MetaFilter. Fuck them for trying to poison the best part of this entire site.

Quoting for great justice, by the way. It's (hopefully) never too late. Almost wonderchickenesque (except for only two uses of 'fuck')!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:46 PM on November 22, 2005

Do you know what part of a dog needs scratchin'? Do ya? It's their BRISKET.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 9:46 PM on November 22, 2005

Briskets are for briskin'!
posted by jenovus at 9:48 PM on November 22, 2005

I like fake questions when they're more interesting than real questions. I apply the same principle to stories, art and breasts. Probably.
posted by Decani at 9:57 PM on November 22, 2005

Is that link supposed to go somewhere, Kev? Don't expect #1 to fix it for you.

I understand the reaction, while it seems a bit harsh. He is a longterm part of the community, but on the other hand apparently a longtime pain in the ass. But even Quonsar came back eventually...

(Oh, and the header looks kinda assy with the hatching, but Matt, honestly, I don't read this site for the header anyway.)
posted by klangklangston at 10:06 PM on November 22, 2005

P_G has pulled asshole antics many times and I've deleted oodles of stupid joke "answers" on ask mefi and he's been given temp bans several times. I don't think he's acting like an adult enough to bring him back. lazy-ville once asked a question that actually made me contact other members to find help for him offline. And this is the thanks I get?

Fair enough. I wasn't aware of P_G's history.

P_G posted this to metachat in the thread linked above:
_{The "religious reasons" bit and the engagement bit were mine.

I want to post this but I'll get banned: I'd suggest kicking her down the stairs, but trailers don't have stairs.}
Seems he had a hand in coming up with the joke question.

Maybe, or maybe not. I don't know what happened between P_G and L_V before this was posted, but P_G was the one who outed the post as being fake. We don't know if P_G encouraged lazy-vile or not, or if he simply offered up the suggestion in a neutral way.

Either way, banning P_G over a single mecha post, especially when it isn't all that clear how responsible he was for the question seems over the top. If he's got a history of crapping all over the site then I can understand giving him less deference then other users.
posted by delmoi at 10:16 PM on November 22, 2005

Maybe a list of community service exercises needs to be formulated so that transgressors that are timed out have a method by which to demonstrate regret and tangible community spirit to get a key back in.
I'd like my lawn mowed, a 1/2 coconut daquiri with a tiny pink umbrella and a mud wrestle with the celebrity of my choice thanks. Next !
posted by peacay at 10:21 PM on November 22, 2005

That's a paddlin'.
posted by loquacious at 10:48 PM on November 22, 2005

And that's a paddlin', too. Get yer mind outta the gutter, you trollop.
posted by loquacious at 10:49 PM on November 22, 2005

for pete's sake, it's only a web site and it's only 5 bucks to rejoin ... it's not like matt chopped pg's nuts off

yeah, i got trolled, big deal ... i've been trolled by better ... and if this was usenet and the late 90s ... pg wouldn't have been banned, he'd have been counter trolled out with his tail behind his legs ... (i can just imagine all the comments ... "what's pg's favorite movie? ... the 39 steps" ... "what does pg's wife say when he's angry at her? ... thump, thump, thump, thump" ... "why did pg have to close his abortion clinic? ... because the city insisted he put ramps in to make it handicapped accessable")

he'd run, believe me

but this isn't the place for that and it's too much work anyway ...
posted by pyramid termite at 11:20 PM on November 22, 2005

"...it's not like matt chopped pg's nuts off"

He didn't? This thread has become so less rewarding.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:34 PM on November 22, 2005

mathowie: I know I'm overreacting

I don't think you are. It gets really tiresome to see the same people deliberately test the limits over and over.
posted by nthdegx at 11:58 PM on November 22, 2005

it's odd that this has made you so much angrier than dhoyt's years-long gaming of the system, or ParisParamus' constant and incessant noise.

i'm certainly not defending what lazy-ville or P_G did, but shitchrist, banning is sort of out of proportion to the offense, isn't it?

if so, i (and many if not most other regular readers) would appreciate an explanation as to why you continue to allow the ParisParamus account to exist. How is what ParisParamus does in any way less damaging to the site? is it because he doesn't fuck with AskMe?

if noise is your concern, why allow an account to continue that's pure noise? what has ParisParamus contributed that's of value, EVAR?
posted by Hat Maui at 2:47 AM on November 23, 2005

p.s. -- preceding comment directed to mathowie, of course, and is quite sincere.
posted by Hat Maui at 2:48 AM on November 23, 2005

Why not just post a hypothetical question and make it interesting enough to create a good and informative discussion?

This makes sense. One of the best and funniest AskMe threads I've ever read was posed as a hypothetical.

I think that AskMe has value outside of the typical "how do I fix my lawnmower/relationship/C# code" question.

However, pretending to have a problem is, in my mind, a pretty egregious break in the social contract. I wouldn't tolerate it from one of my friends or coworkers; why should I tolerate it from an online acquaintance? I don't know if a ban is necessary, but some shaming is definitely in order.
posted by afroblanca at 2:48 AM on November 23, 2005

Free Pretty_Generic!!!
posted by grouse at 2:53 AM on November 23, 2005

When will we stop this protocol on protocol violence? It's all one internet. :[

So True, So True... Stop the Hate Mathowie. We need to stick together dawg not fight each other. Peace my brothers.

also

FREE PRETTY_GENERIC!!!

::hiccup::
posted by Dreamghost at 3:05 AM on November 23, 2005

What's the big deal about Free Pretty_Generic? I never paid for one anyway.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:16 AM on November 23, 2005

It's appropriate that the Stupid is so strong in this thread.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:49 AM on November 23, 2005

if so, i (and many if not most other regular readers) would appreciate an explanation as to why you continue to allow the ParisParamus account to exist.

Simple - he's the counterbalance to nofundy and yourself. On an unrelated note, you know what would be a grand idea? Let's all use this thread to demand the banning of people we don't like!
posted by Krrrlson at 5:43 AM on November 23, 2005

it's odd that this has made you so much angrier than dhoyt's years-long gaming of the system

was anyone sticking up for dhoyt?
posted by jessamyn at 5:49 AM on November 23, 2005

If you're going to cite P_G's posting history as a reason to keep him around, then, to be fair, you have to cite all the times he's been called out in MetaTalk, all his timeouts. If his history matters, then his entire history does, not just the parts you like.

But should his history matter? The idea that veteran status affords special consideration needs to be challenged. If it can mean you can get away with more crap (because "you're one of us"), it can also mean that you ought to be held to a higher standard (because "you know better"). If you're willing to ban a n00b for a first (and, as a result, only) offence, then you should be willing to cut that n00b some slack for being unschooled in the ways of this place.

It cuts both ways.

And, by the way, responding to P_G's bannination by complaining that members you don't like aren't getting banned -- that's so high school. Some of you need to graduate emotionally as well as scholastically.
posted by mcwetboy at 5:57 AM on November 23, 2005

Malicious? Maybe, but Pretty_Generic has been around for a long time, for better or worse.

Who the fuck cares? Do people get a free pass because they've been assholes for a really long time? Matt, I don't think you were overreacting at all; like the chicken said, I'm glad P_G finally crossed your line. He's been amusing at times, but I'm sick of his shit.

On preview: What mcwetboy said as well.
posted by languagehat at 6:01 AM on November 23, 2005

"Let's all use this thread to demand the banning of people we don't like!"
Any of you Albanians? We should really ban all the Albanians.
posted by klangklangston at 6:38 AM on November 23, 2005

Also, McSwetboy should be banned for making a good point.
posted by klangklangston at 6:39 AM on November 23, 2005

you know matt, ask mefi isn't all that and a bag of chips. can you say 'perspective'?
posted by quonsar at 8:06 PM PST on November 22

You are out of your goddamn mind.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 6:42 AM on November 23, 2005

i've been meaning to speak with you about some unsatisfactory deviant sexual encounters i suffered at the hands of your maternal ancestor, but this really isn't the place. let's do lunch?
posted by quonsar at 7:22 AM on November 23, 2005

If you're going to cite P_G's posting history as a reason to keep him around, then, to be fair, you have to cite all the times he's been called out in MetaTalk, all his timeouts.

Fuck that. To be fair, go look it up yourself if you haven't been paying attention.

I can't believe the number of whiners who are giving Matt crap for banning someone who has intentionally played him and all of us for a chump, as just the latest float in a parade of total look-at-me-I'm-an-asshole stunts.
posted by soyjoy at 8:59 AM on November 23, 2005

soyjoy, I think you're throwing a "fuck that" at someone who agrees with you. I parsed "going to cite P_G's posting history" as meaning "defend P_G based on the length and merit of his posting history", with the quoted poster suggesting that doing so is missing the very half of the picture you're underscoring.
posted by cortex at 9:09 AM on November 23, 2005

You're right. I wrongly conflated that quote with the same concept some people were advocating - I too overreacted, which is funny because I don't even have the stake in this Matt does. I'll give it a rest.
posted by soyjoy at 9:22 AM on November 23, 2005

Hat Maui writes "if noise is your concern, why allow an account to continue that's pure noise? what has ParisParamus contributed that's of value, EVAR?"

Come on HM all the cabal members know PP is the cabal's sockpuppet and matt can't afford to anger the cabal.
posted by Mitheral at 10:30 AM on November 23, 2005

And, by the way, responding to P_G's bannination by complaining that members you don't like aren't getting banned -- that's so high school. Some of you need to graduate emotionally as well as scholastically

i'm quite graduated, thank you. insults aren't necessary.

the point wasn't that PP should be banned, it was more about "what is the standard?" in the P_G case, it seems that he violated a signal to noise ratio that, at least in AskMe, is pretty sacrosanct.

so why is that so intolerable where other instances of constant, extreme noise are tolerated? i'm just asking.

was anyone sticking up for dhoyt?

jessamyn, no one's sticking up for dhoyt, but that's an example of an extreme abuse of "trust" on the site that went on for years, and it didn't seem to get mathowie nearly as fired up as this one dumb question did. in terms of impact to the basic integrity of the site, i'd suggest that dhoyt's abuse was far, far worse and in that light, this strikes me as an overreaction.

i'll allow that i could be wrong, in fact, i'm sure of it.

Any of you Albanians? We should really ban all the Albanians.

yeah, fuck Albany. really, fuck the whole of New York state.
posted by Hat Maui at 10:47 AM on November 23, 2005

i'm quite graduated, thank you. insults aren't necessary.

You know, I wasn't really paying attention to who said what, only that this was being said. I didn't go back and check if it was more than one person when I wrote that. But thanks for reaffirming the metaphor by taking personally something that was meant generally. ("People can be so defensive sometimes." "I am not, and I'm offended you think that way about me.")

so why is that so intolerable where other instances of constant, extreme noise are tolerated? i'm just asking.

There are two ways of answering this question.

One, you're changing the subject. It's like complaining that cops aren't chasing "real criminals" when they give you a speeding ticket. Take what happened here sui generis: did it warrant the banhammer? Probably. Do the other circumstances you mention warrant it? Possibly, but that's not the issue here. What's your point -- trying to get in a twofer?

Two, the next time someone asks a sensitive question, and people refuse to believe that it's real, and it is, is when we find out the price of this little stunt. It's a bit more acute than background noise, however annoying that noise may be, because it attacks the mutual trust that is needed for AskMe to work.

In other words, this is a bit more than the signal/noise issue you think it is.
posted by mcwetboy at 11:08 AM on November 23, 2005

Wow that was fast. One day i hope to get the web just like you Matt.
posted by Dreamghost at 11:13 AM on November 23, 2005

in the P_G case, it seems that he violated a signal to noise ratio that, at least in AskMe, is pretty sacrosanct.

No, it's abusing a trusting community by making up fake questions and then posting ridiculous responses.

By the way, Paris has taken a week off several times in the past. He doesn't coast here without being noticed.

but that's an example of an extreme abuse of "trust" on the site that went on for years, and it didn't seem to get mathowie nearly as fired up as this one dumb question did.

Just because I didn't use the word "fuck" as many times doesn't mean I wasn't as nearly fired up. Most of it took place in private email. I banned five accounts over dhoyt. It was a Kaycee-level hoax that went on for years. Of course it sucked and I was really pissed about it. dhoyt played us all just like lazy-ville and pretty_generic did, and did so on a much bigger level. Making a point of this doesn't make much sense to me.
posted by mathowie at 11:13 AM on November 23, 2005

Wow that was fast. One day i hope to get the web just like you Matt.

Sorry, people are trying to have a conversation here. A huge jokey image doesn't add anything to that.
posted by mathowie at 11:15 AM on November 23, 2005

A picture says a 1000 words.
posted by Dreamghost at 11:30 AM on November 23, 2005

You know, I wasn't really paying attention to who said what, only that this was being said. I didn't go back and check if it was more than one person when I wrote that. But thanks for reaffirming the metaphor by taking personally something that was meant generally.

i call bullshit on that. i was the most recent person to remark about allowing certain other accounts to exist before your comment. sure, you expressed your critique using the general "you," but i don't recall anyone else directly questioning whether someone else should be banned, aside from me. feel free to scour the thread to prove me wrong.

but even if your remark was meant generally, as you say, wouldn't the insult still include me, since i'm "guilty" of the behavior that requires "emotional graduation," as you put it? (by the way, i'd hate to matriculate at Emo High).

anyway, no big deal. to say i took it personally because i said "insults aren't necessary" implies that i'm somehow hurt about it. i'm not. i just don't think that asking serious questions about policy matters warrants snide insults about maturity level.

One, you're changing the subject.

yeah, that's never happened in metatalk before.
______________________________

No, it's abusing a trusting community by making up fake questions and then posting ridiculous responses.

i guess my point was that it was caught very quickly -- how much harm can come from a thread that i'd wager an overwhelming majority of the readers never saw? it's a good example, of course, to those who read metatalk -- don't post fake, jackass questions. but relative to the site in toto, the fact that there was an abusive question on AskMe for 24 hours or however long doesn't seem like that big a deal.

i respect that you think it is, however, and will let it go at that.

By the way, Paris has taken a week off several times in the past. He doesn't coast here without being noticed.

yeah, i guess i came into this thread after having read PP call for the bombing of an independent news agency in the Al Jazeera MeFi thread and i was annoyed, and then it occurred to me that i've never seen him post anything of any value, and i say that not simply because i strongly disagree with him politically. i mean i have yet to see paris post anything redeeming at all, as contrasted by someone like dios, who i also strongly disagree with, but at least he tries to contribute.
posted by Hat Maui at 12:41 PM on November 23, 2005

I think maybe twice in the years I've been here I've seen Paris post something other than his usual bullshit -- nothing stellar, mind you, but an indication that he might not be a pure waste of space. So every once in a while I try to engage him in a thread, asking him politely to expand on his views. Nada. He really doesn't give a shit. Too bad, because I'd like to see more articulate conservatives here. He just doesn't care to be one.
posted by languagehat at 2:11 PM on November 23, 2005

I'd say that Matt views ask me as the last remaining vestige of the vision he once had of the Internet acting as a vehicle for a culture of altruistic cooperation. A worldwide network of information-sharing and mutual cooperation has long been the goal of those who really see the potential of this amazing technology.

As the blue deteriorates into an antagonistic snipe-fest, it seems that he wants to draw the line of thread relevance and argument advancement at the portal of ask-mefi. I, for one, don't blame him. Personally, I'm not at all surprised when he finally became very angry with someone's puerile snickering about how stooooooopid those ask me denizens are.

Mere banning hardly addresses the genuine consequences of such imbecilic behaviour.
posted by PareidoliaticBoy at 11:05 PM on November 23, 2005

"Mere banning hardly addresses the genuine consequences of such imbecilic behaviour."

That's why there's nut-crunching.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 12:04 AM on November 24, 2005

I'd say that Matt views ask me as the last remaining vestige of the vision he once had of the Internet acting as a vehicle for a culture of altruistic cooperation. A worldwide network of information-sharing and mutual cooperation has long been the goal of those who really see the potential of this amazing technology.

As the blue deteriorates into an antagonistic snipe-fest, it seems that he wants to draw the line of thread relevance and argument advancement at the portal of ask-mefi. I, for one, don't blame him. Personally, I'm not at all surprised when he finally became very angry with someone's puerile snickering about how stooooooopid those ask me denizens are.

Mere banning hardly addresses the genuine consequences of such imbecilic behaviour.

HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
posted by Dreamghost at 7:00 AM on November 24, 2005

Wow that was fast. One day i hope to get the web just like you Matt.
posted by Dreamghost at 11:13 AM PST on November 23 [!]

A picture says a 1000 words
posted by Dreamghost at 11:30 AM PST on November 23 [!]

HURRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR
posted by Dreamghost at 7:00 AM PST on November 24 [!]

What a drama queen. Hopefully you and Krrrlson can work out how you'll both share your tiara.
posted by Rothko at 12:16 PM on November 24, 2005

What a drama queen. Hopefully you and Krrrlson can work out how you'll both share your tiara.

I love the way you actively seek to remind us all of that thread, and the way that you've embraced the label so readily ever since. Ordinarily I'd believe you were just one of those people who thrives on negative attention, but you've managed to demonstrate - via overreaction to every perceived slight - that it's really some horrible deep-rooted social maladjustment.

I want you to know that I asked my family to pray for you this Thanksgiving, Alex.
posted by Ryvar at 8:23 PM on November 24, 2005

"...really some horrible deep-rooted social maladjustment"

Clearly, I was wrong to believe that "takes one to know one" is a meaningless schoolyard retort. It's cute the way you rush in to defend Dreamghost from Rothko's awesome and terrifying insult.

No, really, it is.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:04 PM on November 24, 2005

pUNJAB HOO
posted by ab'd al'Hazred at 10:34 PM on November 24, 2005

I barely know dreamghost, but I do know this much: he's funnier to read than Rothko is to laugh at. I would like to say that he's funnier to read than you are, EB, but since that applies to every man, woman, child, and small brownish rock on the planet there wouldn't be much point.
posted by Ryvar at 10:47 PM on November 24, 2005

And yet I'm still funnier than you.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:01 PM on November 24, 2005

My ethnicity is 'small brownish rock,' actually. I gather from reading your posts that your ethnicity is 'life of the party.'
posted by Ryvar at 11:06 PM on November 24, 2005

I love the way you actively seek to remind us all of that thread

Which is hilarious, given you and your friends at #mefi/whatever do whatever they can to remind everyone of "that thread". It gets thrown right back at you trolls, and you start crying about it. Hypocrite.
posted by Rothko at 11:25 PM on November 24, 2005

I'm starting to believe that Alex Reynolds is Bad AI CGI Script gone wrong.
posted by Dreamghost at 11:36 PM on November 24, 2005

'We' reminded people of that thread when you started using the phrase 'drama queen?'

It got thrown back at us?

We started crying about it?

Are you high?
posted by Ryvar at 11:37 PM on November 24, 2005

It's rare to see trolls become crybabies like this. Can't say it's not entertaining.
posted by Rothko at 11:57 PM on November 24, 2005

I want to say something snarky here but I'm a lot more concerned for your sanity than I'm interested in shooting fish. Alex I think I'm beginning to understand why it is that you react the way you do to absolutely anything ever said to you - even when other people are trying to help you out. This may come as a shock to you, but other people do not necessarily take online discussion 100% seriously.

Not everything said in every discussion forum on the Internet is an epic battle being waged over your reputation. You have to learn to detach yourself from what people are saying - and learn to write some people off as not worth replying to, or as fodder for jokes - else you will drive yourself literally insane.

When you say things like "got it thrown back at you" and "started crying about it" you're perceiving things in terms that simply aren't there. Not only am I not crying about anything, I'm not even sure at what point since I entered this thread that I was supposedly being the least bit defensive. I certainly haven't felt attacked yet, let alone any need to get upset in the slightest. When you say that I got something 'thrown back at me' I have to ask where and when? I'm not seeing it all. You could easily have said "Hah! You sure got your ass handed to you now that the sky is green." and I would be no less baffled.

What I am now is confused and seriously worried, because I used to think that you were smart enough to 'get it' but not very good with the comebacks - or good at detaching yourself. I'm becoming concerned because I'm starting to seriously believe that the concept of banter is lost on you entirely.

I realize that you're unlikely to take advice from me, but I think you should consider reading things people write to/about you in a different tone than you do. If the kind of massive reactions you get in MeTa are any indication - and the last thread that saw you temp-banned had virtually no #tapes presence - then your phrase-meaning associations are out of phase with a significant portion of the people here. I mean, when I asked if you were high, I honestly thought for a second that you'd gone delusional for a second. Then I thought "Nah, it's just Alex being Alex" and hit post, but your reply only confirms to me that there is in fact something deeply wrong here.
posted by Ryvar at 12:21 AM on November 25, 2005

I've got a bad feeling about this.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 12:22 AM on November 25, 2005

"I've got a bad feeling about this."

Really? Because Rothko vs. Ryvar is a veritable Battle of the Midgets. It's like the circus, only free.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 12:29 AM on November 25, 2005

I guess that would make you the star of the flea circus, EB.
posted by Ryvar at 12:32 AM on November 25, 2005

Ryvar, all I can say is that you and your friends at #mefi have gone well out of your way to remind people of the "drama queen" thread every time, for example, you say "AlexReynolds", as if that invalidates what I've said.

Even when I started a new account you assholes dragged out that elephant in threads that have nothing to do with "drama" other than that you disagreed with what I said.

So if you're going to troll or whine when your friends get caught trolling, don't be a baby and cry when it backfires. If you don't want "drama queen" used here, don't be a freakin' drama queen. Suck it up. It's as simple as that.
posted by Rothko at 12:36 AM on November 25, 2005

Really? Because Rothko vs. Ryvar is a veritable Battle of the Midgets. It's like the circus, only free.

Keith M. Ellis, honey, you're a miserable hypocrite. Go in front of a mirror if you really need to look down on someone.
posted by Rothko at 12:39 AM on November 25, 2005

posted by dhartung at 12:44 AM on November 25, 2005

I think Rodney King said it best when he said 'Ow, ow, ow, ow, '
posted by Dreamghost at 12:45 AM on November 25, 2005

I'm not even sure what to say at this point because from where I'm standing you've gone clear off the deep end. Apparently I somehow personally command and control a chatroom of fifty highly individualistic people - a chatroom I've been to all of six days since September, mind you - in an effort to . . . what? Make fun of you on Metafilter? I'm not sure whether to be impressed at the level of paranoia that gave birth to that idea or slightly disgusted by the egotism required.

This fantasy of a group of people out to destroy you at every turn is just that. A fantasy. In the recent Krrrlson callout thread you managed to turn even the people trying to help you against you because you refuse to disengage and you take every single perceived, never mind actual, slight as a mortal offense. Brace yourself . . . sometimes people make disparaging comments about each other just because it can be funny.

I can only wish that I had a whole chatroom I could conjure forth to troll and heckle everyone who so much as batted an eyelash at me - it would be awesome and awesomely pathetic to storm the ramparts of a whole entire website with my legion of trolls. But the truth is that even if I was in that position, I wouldn't need it - you harm yourself far more than I ever could, and laying that at my feet - or those of #tapes - is nothing more than denial on your part.
posted by Ryvar at 1:14 AM on November 25, 2005

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