Comments on: Web forum marketing ploy alert.

Web forum marketing ploy alert.

jonson — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 07:57:19 -0800

FYI, this msg was posted on the Penny Arcade blog today: (more inside)

By: jonson

jonson — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 07:57:31 -0800

(CW)TB

Hey guys,

I interviewed for a guerilla marketing business in San Francisco that targeted web forums.

I was told that if I accepted the job, I was to have at LEAST 50 identities on as many forums as I could muster (they wanted 100 eventually), with a goal of 5 posts an hour. The posts had to be well thought out, and the idea was that I was to establish multiple identities with a history on the forums, so that when the timing was right a well written but subtly placed marketing post could be finessed in. And regular visitors would recognize the post as coming from a long time poster.

They had 12 people working there full time, and were hiring 10 more. You do the math. No wait, I'll do it for you: that's 880 posts a day (if minimum was met). However he said the better ones could do around 8 or 10 an hour. And they had different "verticals" so there was the sports guy, and the games guy, the hentai, excuse me I mean anime guy, etc.

But the most critical point was this: develop and integrate the identity. No random "HEY EB GAMES IS AWESOME BUY THIS" stuff.

Kinda spooky.

Didn't take the job. It was a fucking mill.

Just to be aware, in the future the Pepsi Blue could come from anyone, even relatively long-standing members of the community.

By: mischief

mischief — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:07:17 -0800

Old news; really, really old news.

By: Faint of Butt

Faint of Butt — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:09:42 -0800

I just wanted you all to know that Tide brand detergent gets my clothes clean and smelling fresh.

By: If I Had An Anus

If I Had An Anus — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:11:39 -0800

John Hathorne could be anyone, even a relatively long-standing member of the community.

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:11:55 -0800

Otherwise, you'd be called Not So Faint of Butt? or maybe Faint from Butt?

By: If I Had An Anus

If I Had An Anus — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:13:20 -0800

*waves to Tide fresh poopy butt*

By: mathowie

mathowie — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:27:47 -0800

What's this? I make $250 dollars off some sweatshop in SF? Awesome!

By: Plutor

Plutor — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:33:37 -0800

mathowie: "What's this? I make $250 dollars off some sweatshop in SF? Awesome!"

Classic.

By: selfnoise

selfnoise — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:35:39 -0800

I really enjoyed reading this post on my new Dell Computer.

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:38:28 -0800

And all for the low, low price of $5! That's right - five dollars!!! MetaFilter: It's not just an adventure - it's a job! Be everyone you can be! A roster of 1000, an army of 1.

MetaFilter may not be for everyone. Ask your doctor about MetaFilter if you are allergic to elephant piss or may become allergic to elephant piss.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:41:06 -0800

selfnoise, while I've heard good things about Dell and in fact used to own one, I have to say that my shiny new Gateway blows it out of the water. Try one, you might be surprised!

By: driveler

driveler — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:44:42 -0800

If it takes five guerilla marketers five minutes to make five subtly placed marketing posts on MetaFilter, how long would it take 100 guerilla marketers to make 100 subtly placed marketing posts?

By: srboisvert

srboisvert — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:49:22 -0800

Just keep pretending it isn't Apple.

By: Gator

Gator — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:50:05 -0800

How do companies like that work? Does the grunt who makes the posts get a commission if the company's server logs referrals from the forum he was spamming, or what?

By: jonson

jonson — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:53:34 -0800

driveler - five minutes, yes?? Do I win the Dell??

By: Aknaton

Aknaton — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:53:52 -0800

I can't do the math on advertising schemes, but it seems like any one screen name would have to PepsiBlue us several times on several different topics to make it worth the $5. As mathowie hints (?), it may be a high enough barrier to entry to keep out the spamborgs.

By: jonson

jonson — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:55:39 -0800

Also - mischief, while this may be old, old news, I can't remember any examples of it happening on Metafilter, our marketing selflinkers have always been first time posters, or at least relative noobs. Also, I can't remember the phenomenon ever being pointed out Meta (the phenomenon of companies recruiting sleeper agents to become community members in good stead until activated). Of course, based on the history of our own front page here, it's plausible that 50% of our active member base is currently employed by either Apple and/or Google.

By: LarryC

LarryC — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:56:31 -0800

How do we know that I Love Tacos really enjoys tacos? Hmmmm....

By: cribcage

cribcage — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:56:38 -0800

While I agree that's an offensive way to market any product, from our perspective among the community, how paranoid should we be? Do we look at every recommendation with cynicism and ignore them out of spite? Isn't that cutting off our nose? I've discovered plenty of good books, movies, and albums from reading web forums. When I read an informative recommendation, I can decide for myself whether I'll like the product (I'm usually right); and if the recommendation isn't informative, it doesn't catch my attention.

I suppose what I'm saying is, if the community benefits from informative comments and worthwhile recommendations, I don't see much harm; and regardless, at what point does this become a parallel to terrorism with respect to, "If they're willing to invest enough time and effort, you can't possibly stop them without halting your entire society."

By: jonson

jonson — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 08:58:18 -0800

so, you're saying YOU'RE ONE OF THEM!!! Burn him, he's a witch!!!!!!

By: puke & cry

puke & cry — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:05:33 -0800

I think jonson is double-secret-under-cover and is really just trying to throw us off of his trail.

By: lobstah

lobstah — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:05:43 -0800

Without my new Pearl Vision glasses, this thread would be a blur...Oh wait, is one year and two days enough time to establish my identity here?

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:06:30 -0800

Apple: Consumerism for the self-righteous. Because sometimes fair trade baristas and emo bike messengers just don't have time to casemod a Linux server. And try our new iWanker Nano. We've replaced the headphone jack with a blue LED. Because your music is dangerously cool.

By: crunchland

crunchland — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:06:40 -0800

If it takes five guerilla marketers five minutes to make five subtly placed marketing posts on MetaFilter, how long would it take 100 guerilla marketers to make 100 subtly placed marketing posts?

More importantly, how long would it take them to come up with enitre works of Shakespeare?

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:10:24 -0800

I've GOOGLED on this subject extensively, located the firm via GOOGLE maps, and GOOGLE-bombed the offending parties. GOOGLE: Providing the "Meta" in "MetaFilter" since 2001.

By: crunchland

crunchland — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:14:43 -0800

I think the point is clear. We need to ban everyone from San Francisco.

By: DrJohnEvans

DrJohnEvans — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:19:51 -0800

You can trust me. I'm a doctor.

By: Dr. Tarr and Professor Feather

Dr. Tarr and Professor Feather — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:22:22 -0800

You can trust us, too. Try Xaanaax. It makes you piss blue.

By: Falconetti

Falconetti — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:26:20 -0800

Christ, after pounding back a couple Red Stripes with friends at a local indie show, I stepped outside to light up a Parliament and check MeFi on my TREO, and I come across this garbage. It made me want to puke on my Pumas.

By: cortex

cortex — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:40:29 -0800

We need to ban everyone from San Francisco.

But then San Francisco will be empty!

By: cortex

cortex — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:40:56 -0800

drink your ovaltine

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:52:37 -0800

i've been wanting another career for some time and wondered if something like this might be a good idea ... just as i was about to sign up, i got a phone call from my army recruiter and he explained to me that not only do i get money for my college education but i'll get real job training that will impress future employers ...

i think everyone here should check it out ... it might be the answer for you

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:56:24 -0800

but then the fbi called ... they offered me 500 bucks a month to monitor unamerican activities on the internet and the best part of it is, i don't have to pay the 5 dollar fee, because i'm already on ... uh, this place i'm talking about, which is probably something you've never heard of, no sir ...

By: Cranberry

Cranberry — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 09:59:26 -0800

Isn't Ocean Spray™ refreshing?

By: Rothko

Rothko — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:00:03 -0800

Excellent investigative journalism, jonson. Have a delicious Coke^TM on me.

By: Smart Dalek

Smart Dalek — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:12:15 -0800

By: mischief

mischief — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:29:50 -0800

The reason I know this is old is because in 2001, I was part of a team that worked out a virtually identical marketing plan for several major players in the enterprise computing market. We used SlashDot as our proof of concept.

On the internet, everyone has an agenda.

By: horsewithnoname

horsewithnoname — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:33:32 -0800

For the past few years, I've had this unexplainable desire to buy a pissing elephant.

By: vacapinta

vacapinta — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:34:26 -0800

Yeah I worked for those guys. A couple years ago, I pimped a photo-sharing site here.

Unfortunately, my first comment was:

i like the flickr people, but dont really like metafilter being used to promote products and services...
posted by specialk420 at 9:59 AM PST on March 12 [!]

so I got kicked out.

By: edgeways

edgeways — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:38:58 -0800

It surprises me that this is cost effective. But IANAA

By: ori

ori — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 10:45:34 -0800

IANAMSA (I am not a marketing sleeper agent)

By: Otis

Otis — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 11:15:35 -0800

Stop the rope and let me in or I'll go out and get some gin.

Delicious Gordon's Dry London Gin.

By: naxosaxur

naxosaxur — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 11:22:20 -0800

my mother sent me this same exact thing in email on friday guys so i know its seriously legit for real.

By: allen.spaulding

allen.spaulding — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 11:22:30 -0800

One step ahead of you people. If you read my messages backwards, Ozzy Osbourne tells you to kill yourself.

By: shmegegge

shmegegge — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 11:27:00 -0800

Just keep pretending it isn't Apple.
posted by srboisvert at 11:49 AM EST on January 28 [!]

Hear Hear! And Google!

By: Mick

Mick — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 11:49:45 -0800

Whenever I come across an interesting post, I always make a note of it in my leather Designers Guild planner.

By: fixedgear

fixedgear — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 12:20:59 -0800

Just got back from a bike ride on my great Trek bicycle and this is what I find?

By: OmieWise

OmieWise — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 12:48:56 -0800

What troubles me is less the product placement than the pernicious pimping of ideas. If I read another person making like DEMOCRACY is a good idea and CIVIL RIGHTS are for everyone, well, I just don't know what I'll do. It's been clear for a while that groups like People for the American Way and the American Civil Liberties Union have had all kinds of deep operatives within the member basse here at Metafilter, and while you all fiddle, they promote the dry dry tinder of EQUALITY and JUSTICE. Laugh all you want, there's gonna be a reckoning.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:09:40 -0800

Hey, I hear where you're coming from, but I tried DEMOCRACY^TM and it worked for me! I slept better at nights and my sex life improved! Give it a shot!

By: Firas

Firas — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:24:37 -0800

/me draws up battle plan to take down the most established members via accusations.

Me: "Do you own an iPod? No! Then why did you pimp it?"
User #20x: "Pontius Pilate, God won't wash your hands of this!"

By: bonaldi

bonaldi — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 13:44:19 -0800

Woah. Can we ban Vacapinta please?

By: languagehat

languagehat — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:15:03 -0800

Can we ban Vacapinta please?

Don't look now, but something just whooshed right over your head.

By: sgt.serenity

sgt.serenity — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:22:51 -0800

I'm a shill for the British Toilet Association.

By: apocalypse miaow

apocalypse miaow — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:30:58 -0800

Wait a minute. Just wait a minute. I get it now. Howie is in on the whole scheme. He's been waiting all these years to sucker us all in, and then, when he has us where he wants us - boom! He's hypnotising us with his marketing scam!

Beanz Meanz Heinz

By: skallas

skallas — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:32:46 -0800

Hey, the European expansion back for BF2 is coming out this month. Just sayin'

By: skallas

skallas — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 14:33:38 -0800

Screw it, Falconetti wins.

By: crunchland

crunchland — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 15:18:34 -0800

Of all the sleeper-cell marketers Metafilter has had, MiguelCardoso was the best. He crafted the best stealth-advertising that was interesting and intriguing. Hats off to you, Miguel, wherever you are.

By: Samuel Farrow

Samuel Farrow — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 15:23:10 -0800

The internet gives everyone an equal voice.

By: spaghetti

spaghetti — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 16:05:17 -0800

Brooklyn – With 2.5 million people, the borough is bigger than San Francisco, Boston, Atlanta and St. Louis combined. The population is approaching the historic high of 1950, when Brooklyn was home to 2.74 million souls. Turn around, and you will see the renaissance.

By: y2karl

y2karl — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 16:18:03 -0800

When you've said Root Beer, you've said it y2karl.

By: sgt.serenity

sgt.serenity — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 19:00:34 -0800

Its been a long time since migs posted , a long , cold heartrending time.
I've spent most of it watching the tumbleweed blow across the arid wasteland that mefi has become in his absence , surely we all realise how unworthy we were of the great man.
Im considering going to lisbon to beg him to come back.

By: dgaicun

dgaicun — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 19:48:38 -0800

Neat, so there's like a quasi-alternate universe, where someone's job is to leave comments on MetaFilter all day, and they get fired because they get caught slacking off writing a report or fixing a technical problem.

By: lagavulin

lagavulin — Sat, 28 Jan 2006 23:21:55 -0800

I just want to state, for the record, that I have no pecuniary interest whatsoever in White Horse Distillers. That is all.

By: taz

taz — Sun, 29 Jan 2006 00:13:41 -0800

I guess I don't really understand the responses here. Are you guys (besides mischief) saying, "oh, yawn. We already know everything about this"?

Because it seems pretty interesting to me, and the *hay, look - I'm a guerilla marketer!* jokes, not so much.

No, it's not at all surprising that marketing companies will do what they can to try to insinuate their products in any way possible, but what's interesting is how internet communities will meet evolving challenges. It's interesting that at the heart of this ploy is the fact that many forums are a bit like small villages wherein a certain amount of trust is accorded those who've managed to establish a some level of identity, and it's interesting that most of us are much more likely to pay attention to testimonial endorsements from posters we feel we "know" to some degree.

Most of these shills, I think, will still be fairly hamfisted and not terribly good at the game (except for inserting viral ads, which doesn't take more than figuring out how to post a link) mostly because I think the money to be made as a worker bee probably isn't going to attract really effective writers... But I don't know. How good do you actually have to be? If you, as a marketer, get your product mentioned on dozens of community blogs, even if the posts aren't sparkling with with wit and charm, you still have that whole saturation thing going on... name recognition, etc.

It makes me wonder about many things, and definitely brings to mind quartermass' ideas of online capital.

By: ikkyu2

ikkyu2 — Mon, 30 Jan 2006 00:14:45 -0800

This made me cry.

Luckily, I had some Zyrtec™ around to dry up my runny nose.

By: phearlez

phearlez — Mon, 30 Jan 2006 12:49:53 -0800

Given this part:

The posts had to be well thought out, and the idea was that I was to establish multiple identities with a history on the forums, so that when the timing was right a well written but subtly placed marketing post could be finessed in.

...why should I care? Many people have an agenda and I'm certainly not above mentioning one of my projects in a comment if it's on-topic for the discussion. The only distinction I see is that I am sadly not getting paid to post anywhere. If companies want to pay people to be worthwhile contributors to MeFi or the like and mention a product when appropriate I can't say I'll lose any sleep over it.