Comments on 11362

The irony of his response to my post - and I am honest enough to admit that mine was pretty direct, perhaps too much so - is that I am NOT very good at office small talk. I'm polite and if I do ask about my (former) boss' kids it's cause I am genuinely curious, but most of the time I don't remember to ask in the first place.

I can recognize when someone posts a question in such a way that they attempt to demonstrate their superiority at the same time as asking how to deal with it. But that doesn't mean that personally I am tremendously skilled at, in this case, office small talk. I'm certainly no brown-noser.
posted by mikel at 4:33 AM on February 24, 2006

Leon: "What's an AD executive? "Ad executive"?"

Assistant Director? Art Director? (something) Division?
posted by Plutor at 4:35 AM on February 24, 2006

What really gets my goat is, I just spent good time writing a thoughtful and encouraging post to this guy in the hope of trying to help him, and now I find this thread...
Is this guy a crank? A troll? Misunderstood or misanthropic? Or just in need of a severe attitude adjustment with a monkeywrench?
posted by Incharitable Dog at 4:40 AM on February 24, 2006

I think, he's just an extremely self centered person who doesn't give a crap about anyone else, except for himself. Of course, then why should anyone else give a crap about him.
posted by caddis at 4:43 AM on February 24, 2006

He's a dick. Put him on ignore and move on.
posted by disclaimer at 4:50 AM on February 24, 2006

I think he has mental health issues and needs to see a therapist, and have suggested a therapist to him w. a practical hook so maybe he will want to go see one.
posted by By The Grace of God at 4:53 AM on February 24, 2006

What a tool. And, frankly, although I'm all for people using MetaFilter however is best for them, this highlights one of the potential issues with AskMe only users: there is no reason for them to reform their behavior as good AskMe users are by definition virtually unable to respond appropriately in thread. Stupid comments like his in the blue would be met with in situ responses that would at least have to be faced.
posted by OmieWise at 5:34 AM on February 24, 2006

If you look through his previous answers, none are helpful in any way and as his member's page lists 11 but there are links to only 7 I presume he has had stuff deleted four times already. His last two questions have been MeTa'ed for his unpleasantness in response to answers. Kick the dick out.
posted by biffa at 5:38 AM on February 24, 2006

This is the guy who had a post deleted from this post, in which he complained about the questioner bringing more stupid americans to the UK.
posted by handee at 5:42 AM on February 24, 2006

His blog (judging from the name, writing style, and general attitude) doesn't look much better.
posted by brownpau at 5:52 AM on February 24, 2006

"Badger-baiting"?
posted by Gator at 5:58 AM on February 24, 2006

And he wants to move to Canada or the U.S. Indio1919, I'd advise the U.S. Specifically the Bronx, N.Y., or say, inner city Detroit, Michigan. I understand they have a special kind of welcome for guys with your particular attributes.
posted by orange swan at 6:04 AM on February 24, 2006

I think this post is a good insight into his world.

The guy needs to see a therapist, I think it's pretty obvious from his retort on AskMeFi and on his own personal blog. He's got some bad crap knocking around in his head that he needs to get out.
posted by jackofsaxons at 6:08 AM on February 24, 2006

Let's not encourage the humongous hate-mongers among us.
posted by horsewithnoname at 6:10 AM on February 24, 2006

Let him post another AskMe and have no one answer it. If he doesnt' like the "crap answers" he's getting, let him see how no answers feels.
posted by rollbiz at 6:22 AM on February 24, 2006

jackofsaxons: I think this post is a good insight into his world.

His mom seems like a real trip, though: The only thing broken in our sunny residence was my heart and that was thanks to the unending stream of crack-happy slappers my son brought home.

Let's invite her to MeFi.
posted by contessa at 6:23 AM on February 24, 2006

I think that post from his "mother" *must* be a joke, jackofsaxons. Though a disturbing one.
posted by orange swan at 6:24 AM on February 24, 2006

He's trying to be frank, but he's really just a Dick.
posted by Floydd at 6:27 AM on February 24, 2006

...good AskMe users are by definition virtually unable to respond appropriately in thread.

Why? He asked a question. If you have an answer, you can post it. You can ignore his offensive tone and be happy that your answer might help others (who have his same question but who are less obnoxious) in the future.

You can even take the "Christian" approach and try to help someone who is being obnoxious.

I have some advice for him -- that pertains to his original question -- not his tone. Assuming the thread is not deleted, I will post it.

What I LIKE about AskMe is that there is a clear agenda. Questions and answers. Berating assholes just leads to flame wars. Why not just ignore the asshole-ish tone and answer the question? Or ignore the thread entirely.
posted by grumblebee at 6:32 AM on February 24, 2006

Give the guy a break. He just sounds like your typical geeky, rambunctious, anti-social 16-year-old. Oh. I see that he's 31. Carry on then.
posted by drpynchon at 6:35 AM on February 24, 2006

ok ive been busted my metafilters 'police' for saying a few unkind words in response to some poor advice but heh life goes on.....

Anyhow i keep forgetting this is mainly an American forum hence my bad attitude to inane replies.
posted by indio1919 at 8:35 AM CST on February 24 [!]

I can't tell whether he's insulting the British or Americans.
posted by MarkAnd at 6:41 AM on February 24, 2006

YOU'RE ALL PHONIES! PHONIES!
posted by Protocols of the Elders of Awesome at 6:51 AM on February 24, 2006

Exactly.
posted by drpynchon at 6:53 AM on February 24, 2006

I think the friends he mentioned must be of the imaginary variety.
posted by CunningLinguist at 6:54 AM on February 24, 2006

Sociopath. Boot him.
posted by LarryC at 6:55 AM on February 24, 2006

I guess he changed his mind about moving to the U.S.
posted by agropyron at 6:55 AM on February 24, 2006

If he's an "Ad executive" working at an agency in London, then he's probably an Account Executive. Bottom rung of the ladder, introductory position. £16k /year. No wonder he's angry.

Seriously, suggesting Irreversible as a good film for a group of rape counsellors? Wanker.

Another vote for banning.
posted by blag at 6:57 AM on February 24, 2006

Damn, what an asshole. I guess "poor advice" is another definition for "what he didn't want to hear."
posted by MegoSteve at 6:59 AM on February 24, 2006

Ban him! No, spank him! No, flame him! No, riff and photoshop on him! No, ban him!

So many options...so much fun... so little time.
posted by orange swan at 7:02 AM on February 24, 2006

I think the friends he mentioned must be of the imaginary variety.

Those comment spammers on his blog seemed really sincere...
posted by Emperor Yamamoto's Eggs at 7:04 AM on February 24, 2006

He supports Leeds United. That speaks volumes.
posted by essexjan at 7:11 AM on February 24, 2006

I, for one, welcome our fun-lovin' mexican bandit overlord.
posted by mullacc at 7:17 AM on February 24, 2006

I dropped him an email suggesting he have a more charitable tone with people who are trying to help him, not that it did any good.
posted by jessamyn at 7:19 AM on February 24, 2006

We're going to get more and more of these antisocial wankers, we really should try and come up with an approach for dealing with them.
posted by Mitheral at 7:21 AM on February 24, 2006

A ban? For this? Please.
posted by grouse at 7:21 AM on February 24, 2006

The original question is an interesting one, and has elicited some really thoughtful and helpful responses, despite the original questioner's subsequent rude attacks. It seems like indio1919 doesn't like the answers he's getting, but the (non-ad-hominem) responses are certainly helpful to other readers who are encountering similar issues in their workplace and are more receptive to the advice of others.

If he asks good questions that elicit advice that can be helpful to others, maybe he just should be encouraged not to respond to answers when he posts questions.
posted by Sprout the Vulgarian at 7:28 AM on February 24, 2006

I see it as: he has a disability, and he's asking for help with it, and the self-same disability is affecting his communication here.

If we actually want to help on this one, we need to factor this in.
posted by By The Grace of God at 7:32 AM on February 24, 2006

He supports Leeds United. That speaks volumes.

This made me snort.
posted by terrapin at 7:32 AM on February 24, 2006

I don't see what the problem is, he's just keepin' it real, yo?
posted by Pollomacho at 7:32 AM on February 24, 2006

membership is open, moderation is very light and it takes only five dollars to open an account here -- it is not surprising that you have assholes joining in. I myself am surprised that we don't have many more assholes joining the site -- I sincerely thought that reopening the gates meant something like the login/login fiasco was going to happen.
the quality of comments (unlike that of fpp's) has gone south tremendously.
at this point comments here are really not better than Fark's (check out the Pauline Kael thread, I just found out that Harry Knowles is a better critic than Kael), and some askmefi questions are bound to be bad. more work for Matt, I guess. but then, this is his job now.
posted by matteo at 7:35 AM on February 24, 2006

he has a disability, and he's asking for help with it

Is being a self-absorbed asshole a disability now? If so, I know many people who would qualify for government aid.
posted by Gamblor at 7:49 AM on February 24, 2006

Seriously, suggesting Irreversible as a good film for a group of rape counsellors? Wanker.

Another vote for banning.
posted by blag at 6:57 AM PST on February 24

Second the motion.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:50 AM on February 24, 2006

Is being a self-absorbed asshole a disability now?

Somebody'll trot out the Asperger's literature, I'm sure.

suggesting Irreversible as a good film for a group of rape counsellors?

Repulsive.
posted by Gator at 7:53 AM on February 24, 2006

I can't fucking BELIEVE those mongs at wikipedia deleted Quonsar's entry!

GAH!!

All faith in wikipedia. right out the fucking window.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 7:54 AM on February 24, 2006

He supports Leeds United. That speaks volumes.

He's red, he's white, he knew that leeds were shite... ALAN SMIIIITHHHH
posted by Emperor Yamamoto's Eggs at 7:54 AM on February 24, 2006

The beauty of AskMe is that threads may bear relevant to other people's lives. Just delete his comments, maybe remove the blatant "you're a dick" cracks, and you've got a decent thread that someone else might find useful.

As for banning: While I'm tempted to say it's an overreaction, the guy's history seems to indicate he's not ever going to be a valuable contributor in any sense of the phrase. So yeah, fine, shake off the dead weight.
posted by cribcage at 7:55 AM on February 24, 2006

Asperger's is real, and this guy is asking for help, in a community. Too bad he's not ticking all the social awareness boxes the majority of members would like him to tick, but oh well. He's still communicating. There's an opportunity to help as long as that is the case. You don't boot people out for bad social skills.
posted by By The Grace of God at 7:56 AM on February 24, 2006

You don't boot people out for bad social skills.

Actually we do that here all the time. I sent the guy a "please stop doing this or we'll stop you from doing it" message and we'll see what happens.
posted by jessamyn at 8:01 AM on February 24, 2006

Asperger's is real, and this guy is asking for help

I don't think we're qualified to diagnose this guy.

You don't boot people out for bad social skills.

Uh . . . since when?
posted by Optimus Chyme at 8:01 AM on February 24, 2006

What's an AD executive?

Attention Deficit executive?
posted by solid-one-love at 8:02 AM on February 24, 2006

I don't see what the problem is, he's just keepin' it real, yo?

Not showering would be keeping it real too. But that's also not recommended.
posted by orange swan at 8:06 AM on February 24, 2006

ok ive been busted my metafilters 'police' for saying a few unkind words in response to some poor advice but heh life goes on.....

Another victory for opt-in justice!
posted by darukaru at 8:06 AM on February 24, 2006

Apologies for any confusion- I'm not trying to diagnose the guy, just saying that Asperger's is a real syndrome, in response to what I perceived as a comment disparaging its reality.

I tend to give people the benefit of the doubt for a long time because I had a very powerful wake-up call at a young age, from people who were patient enough with me to listen and put up with me when I was difficult to bear, online and in real life. Thank God for that, because now I have much more strength and tolerance than I would otherwise. Without that effort put in I'd be a bundle of raw nerves. I think the responses to indio's thread were extremely caring and in just this spirit of patience and tolerance. I think it's a wonderful thread, and I don't think the guy should be booted but should get the opportunity to benefit from the positivity in the thread.
posted by By The Grace of God at 8:07 AM on February 24, 2006

I for one am intrigued by his gumption!
posted by Astro Zombie at 8:12 AM on February 24, 2006

I was not disparaging its reality, but I find that there's a strong tendency these days to excuse assholish behavior by couching it as a disability when it may, in fact, be nothing more than assholish behavior by an asshole.
posted by Gator at 8:14 AM on February 24, 2006

Uh . . . since when?
Since July 14, 1999.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 8:15 AM on February 24, 2006

grumblebee writes "What I LIKE about AskMe is that there is a clear agenda. Questions and answers. Berating assholes just leads to flame wars. Why not just ignore the asshole-ish tone and answer the question? Or ignore the thread entirely."

Absolutely agreed, that's why I say that good users will not respond to his assholishness in-thread. At the same time, while I understand your suggestions to ignore what we don't like, I think AskMe works best when civility reigns. My comment above was more in the nature of a lament that there's nothing to do (except what Jessamyn has done) to make AskMe as useful as it could be to this guy and the people who read his comments, since he's unlikely to engage in other areas of the site where it would be appropriate to challenge his behavior.
posted by OmieWise at 8:19 AM on February 24, 2006

It is my personal view that it's socially harmful to write people off in most circumstances, unfortunately. It comes back to bite us in the ass. It's the responsibility of non-assholes to reach out (to a point) to assholes. Personally, I probably take it further than others. I try to accept a broad variety of people and don't always succeed.

This fella seems to have a symptom of observed assholishness which is caused by the bewildered, sheer lack of understanding that is displayed in his post about workplace behavior.

There is no good soul and evil soul. Assholishness is a set of behaviors with many underlying causes, not some inherent moral trait. Everybody has the opportunity to change. Can you imagine how horrible it must feel to have everyone look at you as the asshole, with a Mark of Cain on your forehead, and write you off as a person without the potential for good? Everything has causes and early intervention saves a lot of harm.

When you see the young man signing up at the recruitment booth, you can save his life and the life of his targets. When he is running at you with an M16 in his hand, all you can do is shoot first.

I hope that Jess' email is seen as part of the reaching-out and that he responds in kind. He is in my prayers.
posted by By The Grace of God at 8:23 AM on February 24, 2006

The thread is actually pretty good.
posted by fixedgear at 8:24 AM on February 24, 2006

Well, animals are not like people, Mrs. Simpson. Some of them act badly because they've had a hard life, or have been mistreated...but, like people, some of them are just jerks. Stop that, Mr. Simpson.
posted by Pollomacho at 8:26 AM on February 24, 2006

What's amazing to me is that even after indio's smartass comments and even after this Metatalk thread was posted there are STILL people in that thread providing meaningful, thoughtful and well-intentioned advice. That's impressive. And somewhere down the road that thread might prove of value to someone.
posted by Otis at 8:29 AM on February 24, 2006

"When you see the young man signing up at the recruitment booth, you can save his life and the life of his targets. When he is running at you with an M16 in his hand, all you can do is shoot first."

They're recruiting for assholes, now? Well, in that case, I prefer to shoot when his would-be parents are in the same town as a recruitment booth. Preferably with something big enough to take out their neighbors, too. But then, I think the biggest problem with late term abortions is that "late term" isn't defined as "up to 29 years-old."
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 8:31 AM on February 24, 2006

Gang, thanks for helping me get through this morning.

My boyfriend (whom many of you know) is in the hospital, and I need something to distract me while I put in some hours at work.

Send some positive thoughts his way, ok?
posted by elisabeth r at 8:39 AM on February 24, 2006

That sucks, Elisabeth. Both of you are in my thoughts and prayers.
posted by By The Grace of God at 8:40 AM on February 24, 2006

Thanks. We'll be fine. The cats missed him last night, though.

(Pneumonia)
posted by elisabeth r at 8:41 AM on February 24, 2006

Eh, I refrained from insulting him in his AskMe, but it took inner strength, Lord, inner strength. I dunno if banning the aspy monger is the right thing to do, but making him pay another $5 seems like a good idea.
posted by klangklangston at 8:43 AM on February 24, 2006

From his weblog:

Why do i keep asking what my work colleagues are doing at the weekend?!

I must have asked them this question at the beginning of the week until time to leave on a friday but i still havent a clue what any of them are up to?!

Looks like we're not the only folk who think he's an arsehole to be shunned. (Though the desperate tone is almost enough to make me feel sorry for him. Almost.)
posted by jack_mo at 8:44 AM on February 24, 2006

BTGoG: ...just saying that Asperger's is a real syndrome, in response to what I perceived as a comment disparaging its reality.

I make my share of Asperger's snarks (I thought that's what the A in AD Executive stood for; still working on the D, though... Douchebag?).

When I and most folks here cracks wise about it, we're not mocking people who actually have it or any other form of autism, we're mocking the jerks who self-diagnose themselves to justify their assholery: "And plus, did you know that in addition to being unable to relate to dull and empty people like yourself, self-diagnosed Asperger's sufferers like myself are often much smarter than regular people? Yeah, it sure is a mixed blessing... *sigh*"

The oddest thing is if you ask a self-diagnosed Aspergerator about their ailment, they suddenly turn into a Chatty Cathy. Mystery of science, I guess.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:45 AM on February 24, 2006

It's the responsibility of non-assholes to reach out (to a point) to assholes.

Telling him he's being a dick is a form of reaching out. With any luck, it might just jolt him out of his self-absorbed world.

Can you imagine how horrible it must feel to have everyone look at you as the asshole...

Yes, cry for the poor assholes flinging insults and throwing tantrums. Cry for them.
posted by Gamblor at 8:47 AM on February 24, 2006

us: "You're a DICK."

him: "That's my name, don't wear it out!"
posted by elisabeth r at 8:48 AM on February 24, 2006

I just wonder what the utility of the people shitting in the thread by calling him an asshole is.

it's NOT an answer,

it's NOT an effectively phrased way of communicating his problem to him..

it IS a way of the shitters' validating their own status.
posted by By The Grace of God at 8:49 AM on February 24, 2006

Alvy Ampersand writes "The oddest thing is if you ask a self-diagnosed Aspergerator about their ailment, they suddenly turn into a Chatty Cathy. Mystery of science, I guess."

A bit like someone with ADD who can play video games for hours on end.
posted by OmieWise at 8:50 AM on February 24, 2006

"I must have asked them this question at the beginning of the week until time to leave on a friday but i still havent a clue what any of them are up to?!"

This makes me feel bad for the guy. The image I have of him is Philip Seymour Hoffman's character in Happiness.
posted by mullacc at 8:51 AM on February 24, 2006

I see him more as an Ignatius Reilly.
posted by elisabeth r at 8:53 AM on February 24, 2006

I think we should definitely have a Metatalk thread about every user we think is a bit of a moron. We should all do that. And we should definitely link to previous threads about the same user every time that person posts something else we find moronic. This would be a very non-moronic thing to do. In fact, it's such a good idea we should set up a whole new page for it. We could call it MetaWhythefuckcan'tIgetaclue.
posted by Decani at 8:58 AM on February 24, 2006

Kinda funny observation - it's the people who can't relate to him who are the kindest, whereas us assholes can see through him like a greasy McDonald's bag.

He reminds me of me at 13.

How the heck did he get to 30 without having that attitude mocked/smacked out of him?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:58 AM on February 24, 2006

it's NOT an answer

Why not?

it's NOT an effectively phrased way of communicating his problem to him.

It's succinct and direct. Would it be more to your liking (and compassionate) if people gave him vague and longwinded answers? I haven't read any responses from people saying they don't think he sounds like an asshole, so why the need to sugarcoat it?
posted by Gamblor at 8:59 AM on February 24, 2006

I just wonder what the utility of the people shitting in the thread by calling him an asshole is.

In his second response, he chose to ignore all of the reasonable advice and take the opportunity to bitch about the responses he got, and to insult Americans generally.

The indirect answers are all well and good, but until he realizes that he's really an asshole, he's in for a world of disappointment.*

* and I should know, as I'm an certified asshole.
posted by I Love Tacos at 9:00 AM on February 24, 2006

Don't ban him. That thread is pure gold.
posted by xmutex at 9:01 AM on February 24, 2006

By the grace of god's commentary on my response is his way of validating his own status.
posted by I Love Tacos at 9:10 AM on February 24, 2006

I just wonder what the utility of the people shitting in the thread by calling him an asshole is.

Well, since you asked, I'd answer that plenty of people in the world won't listen to opinions like you've posted above because you seem like a mollycoddling, melodramatic wuss. I mean, not to be rude, but you asked. "What must it feel like to be in his shoes, the object of everyone's dislike?" "We should be gentle lest our rejection push him toward a shooting spree." Give me a bjorkin' break.

I'm sure your brand of response works on some types. Takes all kinds, y'know? But in my experience, most people who are acting like dicks won't respect your white-handkerchief approach. They'll laugh, and then they'll kick you in the stomach and steal your kitten. The only thing that sinks in is a knock to the head, and the closest thing you can find online is an entire website of people telling him he's behaving like an ass.

Again, no offense intended. But you asked, and that's the answer.

By the way, I found his anti-American crack even funnier when I read this. What a tool.
posted by cribcage at 9:19 AM on February 24, 2006

and I should know, as I'm an certified asshole.

Is that a four year program, or just an associates degree?
posted by Gamblor at 9:25 AM on February 24, 2006

A bit like someone with ADD who can play video games for hours on end.

Maybe you should return to your ADD literature then? Throwaway diagnoses by blogfulls of self-appointed Medline readers don't really lend much to the understanding of actual psychiatric or emotional disorders, calling someone an asshole rarely makes a difference, and just because someone's an asshole because they're insecure doesn't mean they're not being an asshole.

Thanks, most of you, for keeping the eye-rolling and bitching out of the thread. I don't know what's up with the guy, but he got some good advice, some assholes-in-training may have gotten some preventative medicine, and I hope we've all wished 31d1 good luck with his recovery.
posted by jessamyn at 9:27 AM on February 24, 2006

Another vote against banning. He's the most entertaining thing so far this morning.
posted by small_ruminant at 9:33 AM on February 24, 2006

Is that a four year program, or just an associates degree?

Post-doc. I've had the privilege of working with Terrell Owens' agent, Russell Crowe and Kenneth Lay.
posted by I Love Tacos at 9:40 AM on February 24, 2006

Why do i keep asking what my work colleagues are doing at the weekend?!

I must have asked them this question at the beginning of the week until time to leave on a friday but i still havent a clue what any of them are up to?!

It doesn't get any more pathetic than that.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 9:59 AM on February 24, 2006

...most people who are acting like dicks won't respect your white-handkerchief approach ... The only thing that sinks in is a knock to the head...

In my experience, being nice to an asshole doesn't stop him from being an asshole.

In my experience, being mean to an asshole doesn't stop him from being an asshole.

What does work -- sometimes -- is completely ignoring him. Most assholes want to get attention. If you say, "I can see you're suffering, you poor guy", you're giving them attention and showing them that assholishness pays off.

If you say, "Fuck off, loser," you're giving them attention and showing them that assholishness pays off.

If you totally ignore them, you're showing them that their assholishness gets them nothing.

Most people won't do this. They "mollycoddle" either because they are caring people and can't stand ignoring anyone -- or because they want to stroke their own egos by proving that they are nice, even to assholes.

Or they flame back, to prove to the world that they can "give as good as they can get" or to prove some point about "how to treat assholes."

In either case, this is about ego. And it's disingenuous -- or at best foolish -- the act like this will stop the asshole from being an asshole.

Of course, there are tons of people who -- unfortunately -- enjoy flame wars. So they happily add fuel to the fire.
posted by grumblebee at 10:06 AM on February 24, 2006

By the way, cribcage, thanks for the cat.

::Pets pilfered pussy ala Ernst Stavro Blofeld::
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:08 AM on February 24, 2006

jessamyn writes "Maybe you should return to your ADD literature then?"

Yes, well, touche. It was indeed a throwaway line on my part, directed more at people who self-diagnose than at those who are, indeed, diagnosed.
posted by OmieWise at 10:14 AM on February 24, 2006

I actually regret my vitriol after reading paulsc's second response. It's just hard to hold back when so much good advice is rejected with so much...well, whatever his issue is. Kudos to those of you who kept a level head.
posted by theinsectsarewaiting at 10:25 AM on February 24, 2006

In my experience, people who speculate on why someone behaves in a certain manner on an internet message board — particularly when those armchair analyses include the words "insecurity" or "ego" — have failed to learn the Rorschach lesson.

In any case, a quick look at his posting history pokes a truck-sized hole in your old chestnut, "He's just being a dick to attract attention."
posted by cribcage at 10:27 AM on February 24, 2006

posted by blag at 10:51 AM on February 24, 2006

For my part I want to note that I tried to give a reasonable answer in my response but also to address the fact that the question itself was a set-up.

His question is genuine, but the way he chose to post it was really no different than asking someone if they've stopped beating their dog yet. There's no good answer to it, and asking the question in that manner is usually a deliberately aggressive way of preventatively defending your self-esteem.
posted by mikel at 10:56 AM on February 24, 2006

Well, yeah. It really comes across as, "How can I learn to be a phony crapweasel like the rest of you phony crapweasels who are so good at being phony crapweasels?"
posted by Gator at 10:58 AM on February 24, 2006

cribcage said 'By the way, I found his anti-American crack even funnier when I read this. What a tool.'

Jesus, never checked back on that thread after I posted. His snappy wit and finely tuned rhetorical skills are quite astonishing:

Derrrrrrrrrr.....

posted by jack_mo at 11:08 AM on February 24, 2006

In my experience, being nice to an asshole doesn't stop him from being an asshole.
In my experience, being mean to an asshole doesn't stop him from being an asshole.

What does work -- sometimes -- is completely ignoring him. Most assholes want to get attention. If you say, "I can see you're suffering, you poor guy", you're giving them attention and showing them that assholishness pays off.

If you say, "Fuck off, loser," you're giving them attention and showing them that assholishness pays off.

If you totally ignore them, you're showing them that their assholishness gets them nothing.

Exactly. So next time he posts a "Ugh, life/country/office/everything but me sux" AskMe, just let it ride. Everybody resist the urge to drop their Snark Du Jour all over it, and let it sit commentless. I'm sure it'll never happen as someone won't be able to resist, but if it did I'd bet the farm it would be the last we'd hear of him. Notice that he has never "contributed" ever to anything but AskMe.

...And By The Grace of God, way to validate your own status while calling others out for it. A holier than thou idiot is still an idiot.
posted by rollbiz at 11:33 AM on February 24, 2006

cribcage, I'm not a big fan of armchair psychologists, but don't we do most of the things we do for attention? We want to be loved, to be well-though-of, to be considered smart, etc.? (We also do things "to get a job," "to get a raise", "to get food", "to get sex", etc. But it's hard for me to see how one could think posting on MeFi would lead to any of these things.)

We might do things for altruistic reasons: to share information, to help, etc. But is that a likely reason why someone would make a NASTY posting? To help? Isn't it logical that they want attention. What else might they want?

A valid criticism of my earlier post is that it's correct but banal. Saying they "want attention" is obvious and UNprofound. Saying -- or speculating about -- what sort of attention they want is more interesting.

But I wasn't trying to be interesting or profound. I was simply saying that, in my experience, the most likely way to stop someone from doing something is to take away the reward they get for doing it. If the reward is attention, and you don't give it to them, then they will stop or look for it elsewhere.

Alas, this pretty much NEVER gets tested online. There's always at least one person (usually many people) who insist on "fighting back." Show me the MeFi thread in which someone says something obnoxious and gets ZERO replies.

Maybe I was out-of-line when I suggested that people who fight back are doing so for egoistic reasons (or because they are foolish). I'm sorry I said that. But the reason that I said it is that, having talked to many people about why they fight back, I usually hear, "because he pissed me off." That's ego. He pissed ME off.

Or people say, "Because yelling at him will stop him." In my view -- since this rarely works -- that's foolish.
posted by grumblebee at 11:35 AM on February 24, 2006

On the other hand, grumblebee, I remember when somebody once (rightfully) called me on being a bit of an asshole in an AskMe thread. It made a difference. I've avoided that particular brand of misbehavior ever since. Oh, yeah - that was you. Thanks.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:43 AM on February 24, 2006

Well, every personality type is being turned into a psychosis. (That way you can treat it with drugs). I don't think he has apsburger's I think he has narcissistic personality disorder. AKA asshole's disease.
posted by delmoi at 11:50 AM on February 24, 2006

Hemorrhoidic Fever, perhaps?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:52 AM on February 24, 2006

Calling him a stupid asshole isn't productive, but is sure is fun.
posted by puke & cry at 11:54 AM on February 24, 2006

Oh, come off it, Grumblebee. You go out of your way to reply to every thread that mentions verbal abuse with your petite-sociopath ramble about how you stopped seeing your attackers as people as a child, but now just ignore everything because you're a fucking saint. Your Eeor advice isn't universal, and shouldn't be taken as some grand understanding of how the world works.
posted by klangklangston at 11:56 AM on February 24, 2006

I think klangklangston needs a hug!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:58 AM on February 24, 2006

Assburgers? No pickles please.
posted by Pollomacho at 12:01 PM on February 24, 2006

Hold the buns, too.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:06 PM on February 24, 2006

Now shake 'em.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 12:06 PM on February 24, 2006

posted by Otis at 12:26 PM on February 24, 2006

Haha!
posted by klangklangston at 12:43 PM on February 24, 2006

It's Raining FH, I HOPE I never called you an asshole. klangklangston, I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone else in this thread (I have sent you a private email about this). I will back out.
posted by grumblebee at 1:00 PM on February 24, 2006

Umm... Sorry about that. I was annoyed at what I percieved to be a repeated tendency from Grumblebee and let my shitcock internet fucktard escape. After getting an email from him, I realized that what I was seeing wasn't what he was trying to get across (even though I do disagree with him at least somewhat), but I thought since I was a dick in public, I might as well apologize in public too.
It was uncalled for.
posted by klangklangston at 1:01 PM on February 24, 2006

But for cross-posting while my message was being written, well sir, that is something I will never forgive.
posted by klangklangston at 1:02 PM on February 24, 2006

Fear not, grumblebee, you were ever so tactful. You called me on my misbehaviour - I'm the one characterizing said behaviour as "assholery."
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:07 PM on February 24, 2006

(Don't you just hate people who say they're backing out and then come back?) K, no offense taken, water-under-the-bridge and all that. And, again, sorry for offense. Group hug. Okay. Out of here (for real).
posted by grumblebee at 1:08 PM on February 24, 2006

By-the-way: Otis, that was great!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:09 PM on February 24, 2006

Precious hamburgers?
posted by jenovus at 1:50 PM on February 24, 2006

I am definately not leaving this thread and never coming back!
posted by blue_beetle at 2:01 PM on February 24, 2006

See, that's how conflict should be handled in these parts.
posted by Johnny Assay at 2:02 PM on February 24, 2006

Hey guys, sorry I'm late. So where's the flame-out and pile-on? Did I miss it already?
posted by slogger at 2:03 PM on February 24, 2006

Well, at least I know I've never been an asshole to anyone.
posted by Baby_Balrog at 2:05 PM on February 24, 2006

elisabeth r: I hope he recovers quickly!
posted by Stynxno at 2:25 PM on February 24, 2006

Today's DS. How apropos.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 3:58 PM on February 24, 2006

indio1919 for 2006!
posted by TwelveTwo at 4:05 PM on February 24, 2006

People, people: Can you not see that this guy is kidding ... and that his anti-social posturing is just an Andy Kaufman-esque schtick?

It's hilarious, really, when you see that it's just comedic schtick.

For example, see this post. Offensive, if you think he's serious; funny, if you realize it's just a comedic riff on stereotypical, right-wing curmudgeonliness.
posted by jayder at 4:28 PM on February 24, 2006

I've been frustrated by poor / orthogonal answers as well, but sheeeit. This dingleberry has one HELL of a sense of entitlement.

Sounds about 13 years old, too.
posted by scarabic at 4:31 PM on February 24, 2006

Also note the oddly appropriate spam comment to the message I brought to your attention above: "Feeling lonely? Hook up with Real Singles now for $4.99 ..."

Also see the third comment, which is another hilarious faux-naive comic blog, parodying a simpleton park ranger.
posted by jayder at 4:34 PM on February 24, 2006

grumblebee does sort of seem to be saying that everyone is basically a troll.
posted by scarabic at 4:44 PM on February 24, 2006

"He's trying to be frank, but he's really just a Dick.
posted by Floydd at 9:27 AM EST on February 24 [!]"

Stop calling him frank. Or shirley.
posted by ParisParamus at 5:25 PM on February 24, 2006

It's hilarious, really, when you see that it's just comedic schtick.

Isn't comedy supposed to be funny? And trying to compare indio to Kaufman is insulting. Kaufman's bits were about tension created in the audience while watching a train wreck of a show (be it a bad comedian or getting attacked by Jerry Lawler or wrestling women) that was eventually relieved and noted to be part of the act.

Tension. Release. Tension. Release. So far indio is just being ornery and whiny.
posted by raygun21 at 5:40 PM on February 24, 2006

mmm no, that doesn't quite do it justice, raygun21
posted by scarabic at 6:53 PM on February 24, 2006

please elaborate scarabic.
posted by raygun21 at 7:01 PM on February 24, 2006

just being ornery and whiny describes 90% of the site :) This guy needs a boot in his ass.
posted by scarabic at 7:10 PM on February 24, 2006

yeah, you got me on that one. we're ornery and whiny, but i'd like to think we're funny. hmmm, might have to go to the judges on that one.
posted by raygun21 at 7:43 PM on February 24, 2006

BASTARDS!!!!
posted by quonsar at 7:45 PM on February 24, 2006

Thanks for reminding me why I come to this site regularly. There's not always this much edutainment, but there's always a significant probability of it.
posted by birdsquared at 8:25 PM on February 24, 2006

Holy shit... the quonsar phenomenon... What has taken Matt years to (not) deal with, wikipedia has dispatched in two words halfway down one page:

Delete, vanity.

Where have you been all my life, Last Malthusian? :D
posted by scarabic at 9:08 PM on February 24, 2006

According to wikipedia "quonsar" discussion: non-notable blogging deity

I've killed a man for less.
posted by Jimbob at 10:48 PM on February 24, 2006

"Most people won't do this. They 'mollycoddle' either because they are caring people and can't stand ignoring anyone -- or because they want to stroke their own egos by proving that they are nice, even to assholes.

Or they flame back, to prove to the world that they can 'give as good as they can get' or to prove some point about 'how to treat assholes.'

In either case, this is about ego. And it's disingenuous -- or at best foolish -- the act like this will stop the asshole from being an asshole."

Boy howdy. That's a big ole load of smelly presumption you're carrying around there, grumblebee.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:59 PM on February 24, 2006

Or they flame back, to prove to the world that they can 'give as good as they can get' or to prove some point about 'how to treat assholes.'

It would be giving as good as they can get, if they said "I should've known that such an inane question, and retarded responses were written in the U.K."

It'd be proving a point if they broke a pint glass across the asshole's face.

Calling him an asshole is just the blunt truth.

After all, even the apologists seem to agree that he is an asshole. They just want to find another name for it, so they don't feel mean.
posted by I Love Tacos at 12:46 AM on February 25, 2006

...or they believe everything they're saying and that it's all important to say, and have poor social skills and shittier rhetorical style.

Not everyone who chafes at you is doing it specifically to chafe at you / get attention / whatever. There's something very... solipsistic about that belief.
posted by scarabic at 12:55 AM on February 25, 2006

"There's something very... solipsistic about that belief."

Yeah, I guess that's the other part of what he said that bothered me. It seems to me to be a narcissistic trait, this believing that other people are performing for "you" or "us".

However, I sadly recognize that I have a good bit of narcissism in me—but whatever it is, it's not like this. Grumblebee is a complex person, as we all are, so I want to set aside the implication that I'm really talking about him. I'm not. I'm only going on the tiny, itty-bitty, indications in that one comment, which is not enough to identify anyone's essential nature, ever. But it's still provocative, so I'd like to look at it.

The combination of a) believing/feeling that everyone else usually acts in bad faith, or with base and selfish motives, and b) believing/feeling that everyone else is "performing" because they are egoists...almost always is a pair of traits that rub me very much the wrong way and I get into many conflicts with such people who display them frequently. From my point of view, people with this worldview dominating them are hypocrites and/or creating their own hell via the effect of the self-fulfilling prophecy. Worse, almost every time someone is hurtful to any other person, they make the claim that the other person "deserved it"—this worldview makes it possible to almost always believe that everyone else "deserves it", and so between when it's actually true and when it's false, the world fills up with people slapping other people in the face. What a crappy world that is.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 1:10 AM on February 25, 2006

scarabic: I wasn't passing judgement on the rest of their advice.

But when a poster explicitly talks about how to handle "an asshole", but then argues that you should not call them that, it's clear they agree that he is one.

Once that point is conceded, there is a clear argument that some of the people who are calling him an asshole are doing so out of a desire to be clear, concise and honest.

The anti-"asshole" arguments that I've read were all rooted in differing communication preferences, or projected beliefs about the speaker that may or may not exist.

Not everyone who chafes at you is doing it specifically to chafe at you / get attention / whatever. There's something very... solipsistic about that belief.

I wouldn't have used the word solipsistic (I'd vote for narcissistic), but I agree with this.

The idea that I have called the OP an asshole to chafe / get attention / etc. is logically flawed,.
posted by I Love Tacos at 1:31 AM on February 25, 2006

slogger wrote ;
Hey guys, sorry I'm late. So where's the flame-out and pile-on? Did I miss it already?

They were waiting for a volunteer. You may begin.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 12:26 PM on February 25, 2006

Someday we'll quit with the overgrooming (again)

Be like, yeah, come to the US bro, check it out, we were just going to some parties and clubs lately, I know a couple places where you can get work, and check it out, really it's a great place.

You know. Well maybe some people are too young (?!) but that's just how it can be all 'round.
posted by nervousfritz at 5:46 PM on February 25, 2006

Another angry misanthrope. He thinks England is "f***ed", and wants to emigrate to the US or Canada, but is condescending to Americans. It's really funny when a 31 year old who doesn't know the difference between "your" and "you're" tries to look down his nose at you.

But hey, at least he got more attention in this thread than he has in the past twenty years of his life.
posted by Devils Slide at 9:51 PM on February 26, 2006

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