March 8, 2006

5:54 AM

Has the time delay between registration and the ability to make a front-page post been eliminated? I don't mean to pick on a new member's first front-page post on his second day, but unless new folks read the guidelines or hang around to see what makes a good front-page post before making their own, I expect we'll be seeing more posts like this.
posted by fandango_matt to etiquette/policy at 5:54 AM (95 comments total)

So? I thought that was a relatively interesting post, especially for a new member.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 6:03 AM on March 8, 2006

Huh. I thought there was a weeklong wait and a three-comment minimum before you could take the FPP plunge. Is it broken?

(I have no opinion on the post in question, other than I didn't find it interesting enough to click on in the first place.)
posted by Gator at 6:08 AM on March 8, 2006

Yeah? What exactly is so crap about it?
posted by chunking express at 6:09 AM on March 8, 2006

I thought you were a little hasty in accusing the guy of self-linking, even if the post was a little weak and pepsi-bluish. At least he filled it out with a lot of other links. Butt good for you for fighting the good fight. We're flanked on all sides, after all.
posted by crunchland at 6:10 AM on March 8, 2006

Its a lousy post because quasi-cult supermarkets that aren'[t really super-obscure are not post-worthy. I mean, God, there are are TJs through the NYC area (just not in the City). So its just lame-o.
posted by ParisParamus at 6:13 AM on March 8, 2006

In answer to the main question about time limits, I have no idea but I'm sure mathowie will.

The self-link thing is really getting out of hand. We have a problem with self-linkers, but we also have a problem with people tossing self-link accusations around which really throws posts off if it's a groundless accusation. Unless you have some sort of reason for accusing people of self-linking (in which case, include that evidence in your post) it would be better to dial it down a bit on the accusing.

I thought the post was fine. The guy went through the trouble to make a mefi-style post out of something he had also posted on his own blog which is always something I'm happy about.
posted by jessamyn at 6:17 AM on March 8, 2006

jessamyn's name links to her own profile. Self-linker!
posted by Plutor at 6:20 AM on March 8, 2006

But . . . it was in today's NY Times! Isn't that the essence of a good FPP? Lucky supermarket! But then I do all my shopping at Circle K. Can I make an FPP about Circle K when I get old enough to post an FPP?
posted by fourcheesemac at 6:25 AM on March 8, 2006

Seriously, what's wrong with that post? Seems exactly like most of the other multi-link FPPs that people seem to have such a hardon for lately.
posted by antifuse at 6:28 AM on March 8, 2006

I thought it was an OK post, and this is a ridiculous callout. If you want to ask about the time delay, fine, but don't bash a noob for no good reason in the process.

On another front, Trader Joe's wine selection has really gone down the toilet. I once bought a grand cru Burgundy there for ten bucks. Now they have a few decent deals on decent European wines. Bah.
posted by languagehat at 6:30 AM on March 8, 2006

I'm more concerned with people who just joined using Projects to promote themselves than with new members making posts that you might not fancy but don't otherwise break the guidelines.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 6:32 AM on March 8, 2006

You're right, my accusations of self-linking are baseless at this point. For that, I apologize. The post, however, is another matter--it's essentially a shill post about a grocery store chain which, aside from its Hawaiian shirts and one brand of cheap wine, is about as remarkable as In & Out Burger or Ace Hardware. Whee. Is this the best of the web? I think not.
posted by fandango_matt at 6:32 AM on March 8, 2006

"Best of the web" is deprecated. Move on.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 6:34 AM on March 8, 2006

I'm more concerned with people who just joined using Projects to promote themselves

Yeah, can we set the waiting period to at least a month for Projects?
posted by If I Had An Anus at 6:43 AM on March 8, 2006

It is a lame post, but hardly alone in that, and certainly less corrosive to the site than the latest Bush-Sucks-Filter posts.
posted by LarryC at 6:45 AM on March 8, 2006

Well, at least you tried to make some worthwhile contributions.
posted by cribcage at 6:49 AM on March 8, 2006

I'd really like to see a 1-3 month waiting period for Projects as well.
posted by jessamyn at 6:55 AM on March 8, 2006

Aww, come on. He's just trying to get published any way he can. ;-)
posted by cribcage at 7:00 AM on March 8, 2006

Hell, I just wanna meet one o' those "deniznes of NYC".
posted by mischief at 7:09 AM on March 8, 2006

Nothing is as remarkable as In-N-Out Burger.
posted by XQUZYPHYR at 7:09 AM on March 8, 2006

ParisParamus writes "Its a lousy post because quasi-cult supermarkets that aren'[t really super-obscure are not post-worthy. I mean, God, there are are TJs through the NYC area (just not in the City). So its just lame-o."

PP you might not have been paying attention but we've already determined that _any_ retail establisment opening or closing in NYC is worthy of a FPP. It's NYC! How could it not be front page material?
posted by Mitheral at 7:17 AM on March 8, 2006

It's not a self link, because the person is a friend of someone I've known for over five years (they are in the medical profession).

They have been lurking and reading for years, recently joined, and asked if there was a way to post something early, and I figured out a way to do it.

I like Trader Joe's a lot and figured it had a cult status here like In-N-Out burger so I thought it was a good post covering their spread. Most people seem to enjoy talking about how much they love or hate the place.
posted by mathowie at 7:33 AM on March 8, 2006

Aww, bullshit. It's a crappy post about something that most people have seen before. This is what they had to post early? It's like the $2 Chuck— it seems like it might be a bargain, but even at that price it's just not worth it.
Still, I know I'm pissing in the wind here, because it's FriendofMattFilter, which means that it'll sit.
posted by klangklangston at 7:44 AM on March 8, 2006

(At least there are multiple GREAT posts also on the page, about International Women's Day, Chinese rural uprisings, the history of Japanese computer characters, and a few others.)
posted by klangklangston at 7:47 AM on March 8, 2006

Well, you can debate whether TJ's coming to NY is a big deal (personally, I'm jumping up and down in anticipation) but the post itself was well done. I had never seen those obsessive blogs and got a kick out of them.
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:52 AM on March 8, 2006

I think we need to take the cannons and submachine guns off the Metafilter Welcome Wagon.
posted by crunchland at 7:58 AM on March 8, 2006

I thought it was a decent post. I'd like to see a Projects delay as well.
posted by OmieWise at 8:00 AM on March 8, 2006

I think a longer delay for Projects would be a fantastic idea.
posted by raedyn at 8:04 AM on March 8, 2006

And I flagged it as such.
posted by raedyn at 8:04 AM on March 8, 2006

I think we need to take the cannons and submachine guns off the Metafilter Welcome Wagon.

it's a good idea, but then it'd be dishonest to pretend we're different than we actually are
posted by matteo at 8:07 AM on March 8, 2006

In addition to what ParisParamus said, I'd also like to point out that the post doesn't mean shit to anyone outside of the US, web or no web. At least (and unfortunately) US politics has some influence on the outside world. TraderJoe has zip.

And as a side note, who the fuck would want frozen oatmeal pucks? The whole beauty of oatmeal is you JUST ADD WATER. Stupid lazy mother fucks.
posted by furtive at 8:53 AM on March 8, 2006

A longer delay for projects would be good, but what I'd really like to see for projects is a link to votes from the user page, so we can see which projects one's voted for. Seeing the votes from another member (who may share your interests) might be a good way to see what's what on Projects. Then, another thing to see is someway to fix an accidental vote on Projects, but it's very likely that I'm the only dumbass who's clicked incorrectly, and even then only once.
posted by .kobayashi. at 8:54 AM on March 8, 2006

I mean, God, there are are TJs through the NYC area (just not in the City).

In Scarsdale. Might as well be on the moon.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 8:58 AM on March 8, 2006

I had never even heard of TraderJoe prior to this post. So I learned something from it.
posted by Astro Zombie at 9:00 AM on March 8, 2006

I'd also like to point out that the post doesn't mean shit to anyone outside of the US, web or no web.

Did you miss the links to the user communities that covered Trader Joes and explained the significance?
posted by mathowie at 9:05 AM on March 8, 2006

I think what he's saying is that MetaFilter should cover only subjects that have no relation to the U.S.
posted by languagehat at 9:10 AM on March 8, 2006

It seems like many users fall back on the "U.S.-centric" argument when other arguments don't seem to be sticking. If all else fails, decry the American-centric nature of a post.
posted by trey at 9:12 AM on March 8, 2006

what I'd really like to see for projects is a link to votes from the user page, so we can see which projects one's voted for.

Yeah, that'd be good. "So-and-So has posted X projects and X votes in MeFi Projects."
posted by Gator at 9:13 AM on March 8, 2006

Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.
posted by brain_drain at 9:16 AM on March 8, 2006

I'M INDIGNANT! SOMEONE GIVE SOMEONE A TIMEOUT OR I WILL NEVER BE SATISFIED!
posted by shmegegge at 9:23 AM on March 8, 2006

They have been lurking and reading for years, recently joined, and asked if there was a way to post something early, and I figured out a way to do it.

Was that predicated by this?

Also it was an okay post, I guess; I've seen worse.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 9:28 AM on March 8, 2006

I think what he's saying is that MetaFilter should cover only subjects that have no relation to the U.S.

no, if you re-read his comment without being blinded by the desire to snark him, furtive states pretty clearly that "At least (and unfortunately) US politics has some influence on the outside world. TraderJoe has zip".

i.e., to us subhuman non-USians, that fine TraderJoe place is as relevant as, say, a dead wife-beating ex-baseball player. which is to say, not that much. but part of the fun of reading an American community weblog with a majority of American users is that, well, we are exposed to American topics and shining examples of American achievement. and we are all the better for it. talk about spreading democracy and all that.
posted by matteo at 9:32 AM on March 8, 2006 [1 favorite]

I think you accidentally took the self-righteous hyperbole pill.
posted by trey at 9:35 AM on March 8, 2006

Okay, shmegegge. I'm giving myself a time out. Because if I have to read one more person claiming that a quality post has to somehow be universally appealing and ubiquitously relevant, my blood pressure is going to rise to a point where I'm almost awake. And we can't have that. So for the record: if everybody already knows about it, then the post isn't introducing anything really new, so it's newsfilter, which you also bitch about. And there's pretty much nothing that everybody cares about, anyway. Popularity != quality. Nor is it an invitation to prove how above it all you are. Everybody needs to just get over themselves. Me, especially. My signal to noise ratio is embarrassing. Goodbye. I'll be back when I find something seriously cool for an FPP. (For you to poop on.)
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:35 AM on March 8, 2006

*not to be read as implying that schmegegge was the one making those claims*
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 9:41 AM on March 8, 2006

brain_drain came armed.

Watch out.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 9:54 AM on March 8, 2006

Goodbye. I'll be back when I find something seriously cool for an FPP. (For you to poop on.)

I was going to make an FPP about two-story outhouses, but you can have it if you want.
posted by Otis at 9:54 AM on March 8, 2006

What

The

Fuck,

fandango_

matt?!?!?!?!??!

(Disclaimer: me wuvs TJ's.)
posted by Lynsey at 9:55 AM on March 8, 2006

They have been lurking and reading for years, recently joined, and asked if there was a way to post something early, and I figured out a way to do it.

Which makes sense since this was an emergency post about a supermarket opening. Had this not been an actual stop-the-presses emergency, the rule would have applied.
posted by leftcoastbob at 10:09 AM on March 8, 2006

I'm guessing that on days like today, mathowie idly daydreams about telling everyone to get their own fucking blog and closing this place down.
posted by ereshkigal45 at 10:20 AM on March 8, 2006

It's a decent post, although I wouldn't have read it if it wasn't posted in MetaTalk. I love TJ's (and wish we had them in BC) but I have no interest in a post about it. Anyway, just because a person has no interest in a certain post, doesn't automatically make it a crappy post.
posted by deborah at 10:30 AM on March 8, 2006

BURN HIM!!
posted by JeffK at 10:49 AM on March 8, 2006

It's not like there are particularly onerous requirements to fulfill before you can post: he simply had to add 5 comments into current threads and bingo! Full posting rights. Why the need to break the rules for him?
posted by blag at 10:50 AM on March 8, 2006

It was a better post than the vast majority of the comments or FPPs by Fandango. FWIW, it was a better post than most of my comments, too, but I'm not the one making a ridiculous callout.

Good use of irony, brain_drain. And, like deborah, I don't care about the subject at all but appreciate it as a decent post.
posted by solid-one-love at 11:04 AM on March 8, 2006

"he simply had to add 5 comments"
.
.
.
.
.
posted by mischief at 11:07 AM on March 8, 2006

I actually liked the post quite a lot. Some may not have, and that's fine. I think it's been quite well established that if you don't give a rats ass about a particular post, ignore it. I will admit that linking to both NYT and Wikipedia in the same post is kind of lame. I would have liked to see other sources with the same or similar information, but they worked.

As for the post being totally irrelevant to anyone outside the US: a) it's been shown that that is not true and b) who cares? Not all FPPs have to transcend US appeal, nor do they have to include US appeal.

If you're going to pick on a "bad" first post, try finding one that is genuinely, really pretty awful. Not just one you don't happen to like.
posted by gauchodaspampas at 11:08 AM on March 8, 2006

Yah, I really don't get this. Seems like a crap post to me. Maybe I should make a post about Texas's Central Market, 'cause it's really cool and the same idea as TJ's and widely known to people in tech-heavy Austin. They've been opening new stores, too.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:21 AM on March 8, 2006

meh, I'm going to miss It'sRainingFlorenceHenderson. wtf metafilter?!
posted by shmegegge at 11:29 AM on March 8, 2006

Seems pretty weird to me that this was an emergency post but yesterday someone with a health related Ask question 1 day from their deadline couldn't be helped. I'm not saying that they should have been helped (I liked that someone else asked for them as a better solution), but making an exception for a shitass post to help promote a retail establishment doesn't exactly send the best message.
posted by dobbs at 11:37 AM on March 8, 2006

Oh, and just to be different, I'm for a 31 day hold on new members being able to post to projects. As someone who recently posted a project, you get some serious hits off that site. I still see it in my referral stats a month later even though it's no longer on the front page.
posted by dobbs at 11:40 AM on March 8, 2006

by the way, as far as this post is concerned: I think that Trader Joe's can't possibly matter to anyone who isn't already a fan, in which case it's preaching to the choir and borderline pepsi blue. BUT, that doesn't mean it can't be an fpp. It's clear that there are people who are glad to have found this out and it's not that big a deal that it needs a callout. It reminds me of the post about the L train in brooklyn not connecting manhattan. All of a sudden the entire community was up in arms because not everyone lives in NY.

fucking news flash, people. not everyone lives anywhere.

There are already threads specific to one community or another on the front page that are represented by an even smaller number of mefites than new york. That doesn't mean they should be deleted.

Please stop assuming that everything local to new york is unfit for metafilter. If you think your community is inadequately represented because of these posts, then just post something worthwhile about your community. You don't see new yorkers jumping into threads about other areas and complaining.
posted by shmegegge at 11:48 AM on March 8, 2006

oh, and I also love how when someone says Can I post to Ask Early because "I've got a medical problem that I'm seeing multiple doctors about, including one tomorrow. There is a distinct possibility of something serious and life-threatening, but I want to be prepared before I head to the doctor and I want to alleviate my growing 'worst case' anguish." then the answer is "NO." and a closed thread.

but if mathowie's friend of a friend wants to post immediately so that he can extoll the virtue's of a goddamn supermarket chain, that's doable.

sure, maybe there's some coldfusion reason why askme can't have limits lowered per person on a temporary basis, but there were other options, like other mefites posting the question for the user (which I would have done if I'd noticed the thread earlier) or even #1 doing it himself.

sweet.
posted by shmegegge at 11:53 AM on March 8, 2006

"fucking news flash, people. not everyone lives anywhere."

Actually, I live in New York.
posted by not everyone at 11:55 AM on March 8, 2006

best $5 ever. I'm on the floor.
posted by shmegegge at 11:57 AM on March 8, 2006

good point dobbs. [and on preview - shmegegge.

Synchronicity is a bitch.
posted by dash_slot- at 12:09 PM on March 8, 2006

It's like a smart-ass tax.
posted by found missing at 12:09 PM on March 8, 2006

The $5.
posted by found missing at 12:10 PM on March 8, 2006

You people keep addressing me and I don't know what you want me to do.

Also: Never heard of trader joe's, never been to New York, love to read stuff about both and I was mildly entertained.
posted by disclaimer at 12:13 PM on March 8, 2006

If we're talking about a waiting period before users can post to MeFi Projects, then it might be better for it to be in terms of total comments to blue + green (say, 50 or 100) rather than time. That would make it too much trouble to pay the $5 for a sleeper account.
posted by Prospero at 12:21 PM on March 8, 2006

That might just encourage people to make, say, 50 or 100 crap throwaway comments toward that end, though. It's a tough call. Plus, it punishes the less verbose of the "real" MeFites, who may be no less worthy of putting up a project.
posted by Gator at 12:24 PM on March 8, 2006

50 or 100 comments is not that much trouble, really.
posted by sleeper account at 12:29 PM on March 8, 2006

Just a correction here. It was possible to get around the 7 day waiting period on a mefi post without me having to write any code at all. It's not possible at Ask MetaFilter. So I let this person go ahead because it seemed like a pretty decent post and I had a trusted friend that knew them and could vouch for them. For the ask mefi question, I would have had to write code, which is a pain in the ass, and especially so when it's for one person and for one instance.
posted by mathowie at 12:37 PM on March 8, 2006

mathowie's explanation of the denial of the early AskMe is exactly how I interpreted his denial.

Honestly, people. Does the man have a history of unreasonably harsh denials? Or a history of doing things without ample justification? You act like he's a tyrant. Jesus. What a thankless fucking job.
posted by ereshkigal45 at 12:45 PM on March 8, 2006

Easiest way to do this for AskMe is to submit it anonymously.
posted by Mitheral at 12:48 PM on March 8, 2006

yeah, thankless job. *rolls eyes*
posted by puke & cry at 12:57 PM on March 8, 2006

Yeah, puke & cry. I can't think of many other jobs where one's decisions get instantly and publicly examined by 30,000 people.
posted by ereshkigal45 at 1:10 PM on March 8, 2006

umm, can all of you simultaneously unclench please? I thought that was a really good post. I am a TJs fan and because I am only used to the puritan stores in Massachusetts, I enjoyed the two buck chuck story.

Way to piss all over the n00bs.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 1:36 PM on March 8, 2006

big difference between criticized and thankless.
posted by puke & cry at 1:55 PM on March 8, 2006

I liked the FPP, and even if I didn't I think the reaction here is a bit much when compared to the severity of the complaints. It reminds me of why I wish the power of the minds here (and the frequency of great posts) could be combined with the friendlier attitude of MoFi.
posted by rollbiz at 2:03 PM on March 8, 2006

big difference between criticized and thankless.

big difference between hyperbole and what is your problem anyhow?
posted by jessamyn at 2:05 PM on March 8, 2006

Yes... fight with the mods...
this is good...
posted by Baby_Balrog at 2:42 PM on March 8, 2006

ereshkigal45 writes "I can't think of many other jobs where one's decisions get instantly and publicly examined by 30,000 people."

Ya, even the US president can't get that kind of scrutiny.

rollbiz writes "It reminds me of why I wish the power of the minds here (and the frequency of great posts) could be combined with the friendlier attitude of MoFi."

What are you saying?
Are you saying the Monkeys aren't as power minded as the posters here?
What are you a monkey hater?
/Over the top indignant reaction.

Seriously though I think the snarkyness you see here is directly linked to the demonstration of critical thinking skills you also see here. People start typing foolishness and idiocy and they get reminded immediately that isn't acceptable here.
posted by Mitheral at 2:50 PM on March 8, 2006

a thread obsessing over a retail establishment? the front page headline for the last two days in the grand rapids press has been the possible building of a cabela's. seriously, this is yet more evidence that everybody in the usa but me is fucking nutso.
posted by quonsar at 3:21 PM on March 8, 2006

i resent that.
posted by nutso at 3:41 PM on March 8, 2006

buy me a drink?
posted by nutso at 3:43 PM on March 8, 2006

Hmm. I'm not nutso. Which means...
posted by not everyone at 3:50 PM on March 8, 2006

Baby_Balrog - Worthing Rocker.
posted by tellurian at 3:58 PM on March 8, 2006

"the front page headline for the last two days in the grand rapids press has been the possible building of a cabela's."

All four of the local networks here led with the opening of Utah's first Cabela's. It was nauseating.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:11 PM on March 8, 2006

(led the six o'clock newscasts, that is)
posted by mr_crash_davis at 4:11 PM on March 8, 2006

Quit pissing Matt off or he's gonna start charging a monthly! Holy Shit! BTW, Tj's Kosher rib-eye steaks are awesome!!!!
posted by snsranch at 4:15 PM on March 8, 2006

for the record, I acknowledged the difficulty in changing the askme code in my original criticism, and already said that there were other methods of helping the poor guy out that could have benefited from leaving the thread open. seems to me that if someone has a possibly life-threatening medical condition and would like to askmefi a day early regarding said condition, it couldn't hurt to leave the thread open for other people with a weekly askme post available to offer to post it for them. and that would actually have required less work on #1's part than closing the thread. hell, anonymous posting is another option, as well, as has been mentioned. the difficulty of changing the askme code simply isn't the end of the story.
posted by shmegegge at 11:20 PM on March 8, 2006

im sure matt was just busy but that still seems cold as hell.

"I might be dying and I want a little bit of comfort before im sitting in that cold white office."

"come back when you've been a member long enough n00b."
posted by Tryptophan-5ht at 3:08 AM on March 9, 2006

mitheral, if you bother to look back here...What I was trying to say was:

MonkeyFilter: Nice smart people- to a fault.
MetaFilter: Snarky, mean people- to a fault.

I want the happy medium! I want MenkeyFilter/MontaFilter. I paid my five bones dammit!!!
posted by rollbiz at 8:31 PM on March 9, 2006

Also meant to note MeFites as smart.
posted by rollbiz at 8:32 PM on March 9, 2006

I get what you are saying. It just seems like the seriousness of Meta and the playfulness of Mofi can't co-exist. The seriousness of the kind of person who brings up a comment made 9 months ago to score points today is turned off by the laid back fun and sillyness of MoFi and vice versa.
posted by Mitheral at 7:31 AM on March 10, 2006