Comments on: Offensive noise.

Offensive noise.

Baby_Balrog — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:49:36 -0800

Completely ridiculous, disgusting askme response.

By: polyhedron

polyhedron — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:52:09 -0800

No! I expect far more from SCDB! I am shocked!

By: bigmusic

bigmusic — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:52:20 -0800

Did you flag it as noise?

By: quonsar

quonsar — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:54:22 -0800

best of the dente.

By: dhammond

dhammond — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:57:32 -0800

Boooooooooooo. Don't tempt me with "completely ridiculous" and "disgusting" if you're just going to point to that. I've seen much worse.

By: dhammond

dhammond — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 18:59:18 -0800

Also booooooooo on the SCDB-hatin'.

By: polyhedron

polyhedron — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:00:27 -0800

dhammond: Hey, I like him, but you'll have a hard time convincing me he can't be extremely obnoxious. It's not a fatal flaw.

By: quonsar

quonsar — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:02:35 -0800

unless you're me.

By: polyhedron

polyhedron — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:06:04 -0800

quonsar: You're one of my faves. Weren't you the pissing elephant guy? I sure miss that.

And fwiw this is a lame callout. Flag and move on bro, flag and move on.

By: dhammond

dhammond — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:07:09 -0800

Maybe I'm in the minority, but he's never bothered me. Even when I don't agree with him, he seems earnest.

By: jonson

jonson — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:07:37 -0800

Weren't you the pissing elephant guy?

Even out here on the West Coast, I can hear your tombstone being engraved, q.

By: danb

danb — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:10:06 -0800

Maybe I'm in the minority, but he's never bothered me. Even when I don't agree with him, he seems earnest.

Same here. SCDB's answers in the green are usually in-depth, intelligent, and pertinent.

For what it's worth, I personally think this one is bullshit, but I wouldn't call it out or even hold it against him -- everyone has those posts.

By: chlorus

chlorus — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:14:22 -0800

Let me grab a beer and some popcorn, this one is gonna be good.

By: davy

davy — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:16:54 -0800

So now it's "offensive," "completely ridiculous" and "disgusting" to point to something that really does happen. Maybe Baby_Balrog ought to hang out on a Muslim website, perhaps a Jihadist one, instead. This is one of SCDB's few intelligent comments you're objecting to.

Of course saying that leaves me open to more accusations of anti-semitism, because you know Islam IS a Semitic religion with a Semitic language as its "lashon hakodesh."

By: puke & cry

puke & cry — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:17:52 -0800

Before I pass judgment on SCDB I need to know if he thought ralph meant a literal viking or if he was using a metaphor.

By: polyhedron

polyhedron — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:18:21 -0800

Lo, for it is true that SCDBs commentary and correspondence are but sweetness and light upon the ~~ears~~eyes of all. It is merely my sensitive and easily chafed retinae that have turned my opinion foul. Forgive me, for I shalt never again hold an unworthy opinion of an anagramed MeFi celebrity without Satan's own bane to force my will.

By: Faint of Butt

Faint of Butt — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:22:43 -0800

SCDB's comment was rude, offensive, uncalled-for, off-topic and derailing. It should be deleted for all these reasons.

Regrettably, the comment was not untrue.

By: Pope Guilty

Pope Guilty — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:23:50 -0800

Given the question, and given Steven C. Den Beste, is anyone actually surprised?

By: cortex

cortex — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:24:04 -0800

SCDB's answers in the green are usually in-depth, intelligent, and pertinent.

My main complaint with what I've seen from Steven lately is that now and then he forgets the "pertinent" part: in-depth, intelligent commentary on things that are only tangentially related to the actual question aren't actually helping, and a couple of those have hit the bit-bucket.

I don't know how to call this one. It seems a bit obnoxious, but I know nothing about the subject. Jess has been busy with a thing today, but she'll probably see it and either kill it or not according to her better-honed sensibilities. In the mean time, the thread itself seems to have proceeded unfazed.

Having a SCDB freakout seems kind of unnecessary, regardless. Flag it an move on indeed.

By: Steven C. Den Beste

Steven C. Den Beste — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:29:27 -0800

June 11, 2007 (Reuters):

A Kurdish man was convicted in a London court on Monday of murdering his 20-year-old daughter in a so-called "honor killing" after she left her husband and fell in love with another man.

Banaz Mahmod was strangled with a shoelace in her home in London, her body was stuffed in a suitcase and taken some 120 miles (190 kilometers) to the city of Birmingham, where it was buried in the back garden of a house.

[While searching for this, CNN's keyword advertising offered "Honour Killings Complimentary Ringtone for Any Cellphone. Get It Instantly." and "Find and Compare prices on honor killing at Smarter.com.". Ye Gods.]

By: exlotuseater

exlotuseater — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:29:28 -0800

While somewhat hyperbolic, they do happen. SCDB is only pointing it out. (Though the "I'd be worried about her safety" is a bit much-- seems like out-of-left-field editorializing. If it were really a concern, I suspect the OP would have composed the question a bit differently.)

By: dhammond

dhammond — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:31:17 -0800

SCDB's comment was rude, offensive, uncalled-for, off-topic and derailing.

It's perhaps an extreme example, but as davy pointed out, these things actually do happen. Considering one of the people in question is Pakistani, it's not out of the realm of possibility.

By: gauchodaspampas

gauchodaspampas — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 19:59:04 -0800

The problem as I see it is that his comment was over-generalizing. Sure, a lot of Muslim women are killed for marrying non-Muslims. But it is not necessarily a great danger in all areas, cultures, families, etc. Without knowing all the details, SCDB has lumped copernicus's girlfriend's family and peer group in with potential honor killers (yes, I realize he did not say that it is necessarily a danger in this case, but the implication is that it is always a danger in similar situations). It seems to me that if that were the case, there would have been more mention in the question of emotional abuse from the family, or other warning signs. I trust that copernicus is likely more familiar with the phenomenon of honor killing, and the tensions between Muslims and Hindus than SCDB. In short, SCDB's intentions may be good, but his comment seems to come from ignorance, over-generalization, and jumping to conclusions. These things can have very bad effects.

By: Ethereal Bligh

Ethereal Bligh — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:03:30 -0800

"SCDB's comment was rude, offensive, uncalled-for, off-topic and derailing."

It was none of those things. It was wrong and the ignorance behind it probably stems from bigotry. Mostly, it was just dumb. (Yes, it happens. No, it doesn't happen often enough or widely enough to support such an ignorant stereotyping.)

It's also typical of Den Beste's behavior on MeFi. A large portion of his answers and assertions here are bullshit. Very often someone comes along within six or so comments of his and debunks whatever crap he's posted, but it doesn't make much difference. He's basically Cliff Clavin from Cheers.

By: Burhanistan

Burhanistan — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:08:31 -0800

*Muslim who goes on honor killing sprees several times a day*

By: puke & cry

puke & cry — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:09:48 -0800

EB nailed it. Cliff Clavin - that's perfect.

By: Burhanistan

Burhanistan — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:14:58 -0800

One of the things stressed in traditional Islam is to dislike the actions, not the person. One never knows when another person will have a fath, an opening into the unseen and they suddenly become more realized than you.

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:15:30 -0800

Have I ever told you about my trip to Florida?

By: quonsar

quonsar — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:21:00 -0800

NORM!!!!!

By: dhammond

dhammond — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:23:06 -0800

In short, SCDB's intentions may be good, but his comment seems to come from ignorance, over-generalization, and jumping to conclusions.

Maybe so, but for better or for worse these things happen all the time in AskMe. Rarely does it lead to a call-out except in the more extreme cases. There is nothing about his response that is particularly egregious, from where I'm sitting, and no one's really objecting to it in the thread itself.

By: grobstein

grobstein — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:41:53 -0800

Maybe so, but for better or for worse these things happen all the time in AskMe.

Honor killings? We must be having a bad month.

By: carsonb

carsonb — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:44:53 -0800

no one's really objecting to it in the thread itself.

That's because one does not object in AskMe. One may refute, but all objection goes right here in MetaTalk. Anyway, stop trying to get in the way of us trashing on SCDB in general. Who cares if this one particular comment of his is borderline ok (or at least not worthy of its own MeTa thread), he's an asshole! And you're an asshole for defending him! And you, over there, you're an asshole for snickering! You're all a bunch of assholes?

I'm glorious.

By: carsonb

carsonb — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 20:45:30 -0800

Fuck?

By: blasdelf

blasdelf — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:00:06 -0800

Totally Cliff Calvin. Damn, EB, are you spot on as usual... I subvocalize your username as 'eeb'... We signed up on the same day... This text is too small...

By: cortex

cortex — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:00:54 -0800

I call him "Gamestop".

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:02:28 -0800

There is nothing about his response that is particularly egregious, from where I'm sitting

Except that his comment is ideologically motivated and has little — rather, almost nothing — to do with answering the question. Given the subject matter, it is easy to see why someone would think the response is "completely ridiculous" or "disgusting".

By: one_bean

one_bean — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:31:47 -0800

I'd be worried about her safety. A lot of ~~Muslim girls~~ people have been murdered for doing what you're talking about.

Fixed that for you..

FBI Statistics 2002: as a woman in the US, you're 3 times more likely to be killed by your husband than your parents or siblings (that's not taking into account that you have at least twice as many parents and siblings as husbands). If this Steven fellow went into every marriage post screaming "No!!! You're going to die!," it would get old real quick. That he chose the one involving Muslims says it all.

By: caddis

caddis — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:42:53 -0800

It's not a fatal flaw.
posted by polyhedron at 10:00 PM on June 11 [+] [!]

unless you're me.
posted by quonsar

Fatal? Hardly. Your snark kept you alive through all the bad years, really. Don't ever give that up. It's your gift. My guess, you made Matt about several hundred thousand dollars with that snark. You really ought to be the fourth estate, I mean admin.

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 21:49:14 -0800

You know, a lot of Irish have been killed for making lame callouts.

By: one_bean

one_bean — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:03:38 -0800

I hear more zombies are killed in space than anywhere else.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 22:40:52 -0800

You know, a lot of Irish have been killed for making lame callouts.

The wakes are to die for.

By: Brittanie

Brittanie — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 23:00:28 -0800

Not that I think this is the worst AskMe answer offense of all time or even close to it, but he does seem to be a fan of the scaremongering. In my own case, I just ignored him and moved on.

Until now, that is.

By: puke & cry

puke & cry — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 23:07:53 -0800

To anyone receiving an answer from Mr. Den Beste, I'd take it with a grain of salt. As mentioned already, he's someone that has to be an expert on everything. His answers are frequently wrong but he has to sound authoritative anyway. And he apparently isn't past throwing in ideologically loaded comments. I'd just ignore him, as Brittanie mentioned.

By: dreamsign

dreamsign — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 23:10:05 -0800

He's basically Cliff Clavin from Cheers.

"Due to the shape of the North American elk's esophagus, even if it could speak, it could not pronounce the word lasagna"

By: wendell

wendell — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 23:45:38 -0800

He's basically Cliff Clavin from Cheers.

Which makes mathowie Sam Malone, cortex Woody and quonsar Norm, right? So who is jessamyn? Diane, Rebecca or Carla? And EB, you are a leading candidate for Frasier.

By: Wolof

Wolof — Mon, 11 Jun 2007 23:46:08 -0800

I remain puzzled as to why a beginner-level Japanese learner is opining on the possibility or otherwise of Chinese puns. Fortunately our lad in Beijing pops in to set the matter straight.

By: dydecker

dydecker — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 00:52:05 -0800

Raincoat anime and basic Japanese is much preferable to geopolitics though.

By: dreamsign

dreamsign — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 01:11:26 -0800

It's kind of sad, though. Those that get called out for this kind of thing are always the same people, and they are not at all the only people making questionable comments. The fact is, a lot of MeFites have a bug up their collective asses about a few members, and those few members get more shit because of it than they usually deserve. For the number of people complaining in a thread the other day about how shitty high school was, they sure seem compelled to recreate it everywhere else.

By: Abiezer

Abiezer — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 01:23:30 -0800

I flagged SCDB's comment as derail; as Blazecock said, I find it hard to believe it wasn't just an ideological knee-jerk.
When you read that the asker has been in love with this woman for 10 years and is Indian., the presumption of feeling the need to bring up honour killing is breathtaking.

By: dreamsign

dreamsign — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 03:10:59 -0800

Oh for sure flag it, but a MeTa callout?

By: i_cola

i_cola — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 06:03:42 -0800

Q: I'm thinking of going to the US for a holiday - recommendations?

A: I'd avoid the US. They have serial killers and lots of guns. These things do happen.

And so forth...

By: Baby_Balrog

Baby_Balrog — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 06:35:36 -0800

I called this out last night, right after I finished a six-pack, right before I went to bed. I'm kind of amazed at some of the responses. I wouldn't have called it out (I'm not really the metatalk call-out type - more of the in-thread flamewar starter, really) but after reading it I completely and utterly realized what a total racist SCDB is. Someone above pointed out that spousal abuse and death are a possibility in all marriages, yet the only reason - the only reason SCDB popped his obnoxious little personage into that thread was because he read the word 'Muslim' in the title. And he hates Muslims, and wants other people to hate them, too. It didn't matter that they had been a couple for ten years, it didn't matter that this gentleman obviously loved her and was looking for sincere advice about mixed marriages. SCDB obviously knows nothing about these things. All he knows is one meaningless little factoid about something that happens in backward, impoverished parts of the Muslim world. And he hates Muslims (because he's a racist) so he wants to paint honor-killings as a legitimate danger.

And so I flagged it.

And it didn't go away.

So I'm bringing it up here, if for no reason other than to point out that SCDB is a shrill, evil little racist and he should be ashamed of himself.

By: mr_crash_davis

mr_crash_davis — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 06:50:16 -0800

You know who else was a shrill, evil little racist?

*wait for it*

Strom Thurmond, of course.

By: blasdelf

blasdelf — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 07:11:43 -0800

I don't think Steven is evil, just frequently inept in a very public way.

By: LordSludge

LordSludge — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 07:12:38 -0800

blasdelf: I subvocalize your username as 'eeb'... We signed up on the same day...

Wow, you two should totally hang out.

By: GuyZero

GuyZero — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 07:20:15 -0800

So what was the comment?

By: languagehat

languagehat — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 07:24:02 -0800

SCDB's answers in the green are usually in-depth, intelligent, and pertinent.

What EB said. SCDB is an intelligent guy who thinks he knows way more than he does and has absolutely no ability to distinguish "something I think I know that is vaguely related to something that came to mind while reading this thread" from "something that would actually be useful to contribute to this thread." I don't dislike him, but I sure wish he'd learn to rein himself in.

By: modernnomad

modernnomad — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 07:25:53 -0800

I called this out last night, right after I finished a six-pack, right before I went to bed.

Excellent -- the "I was drunk" sorta-excuse finally makes an appearance in MeTa. Mel Gibson and Mark Foley thank you.

By: mediareport

mediareport — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 08:10:06 -0800

A large portion of his answers and assertions here are bullshit. Very often someone comes along within six or so comments of his and debunks whatever crap he's posted, but it doesn't make much difference.

It's really true. His AskMe answers can be wonderful, but far too often - and at a higher rate than many of the "I'm not a lawyer" newbies who give legal advice - he's stating blatantly wrong information with certainty. He's one of the folks who most regularly jumps into AskMe threads about which he knows nothing - the poster child for male answer syndrome.

has absolutely no ability to distinguish "something I think I know that is vaguely related to something that came to mind while reading this thread" from "something that would actually be useful to contribute to this thread."

Right. The poster child for male answer syndrome.

By: Burhanistan

Burhanistan — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 08:40:22 -0800

I'm not afraid to admit that I don't know shit. Say it with me...

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 08:44:37 -0800

The comment's gone now. Maybe the admins can close this thread.

By: frecklefaerie

frecklefaerie — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:14:45 -0800

Oh, come on. ikkyu2 is obviously Frasier. (which makes occhibulu Lillith, hee)

Jessamyn is more like Carla than any of the others.

I want to know who is the cigar Indian by the door.

By: jamjam

jamjam — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:17:04 -0800

My, my; this has taken a bit of a nasty turn overnight.

I have learned a great deal from SCDB's Answers, not least the ones where he has been blatantly wrong.

If you don't want to evaluate and think through what people have to say, you would be wiser to listen only when you find yourself in rooms where one wall is thickly covered in framed certificates.

By: Meatbomb

Meatbomb — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:28:22 -0800

I thought it was too tangential to the askme thread, but just days ago I emailed my Muslim girlfriend with my concerns for her safety. Fathers, brothers, cuckolded husbands, any men in the family / social network of a Muslim women are potential lethal dangers, this is something very real. I'm not going into a lot of detail here, but you'll have to trust me on this.

SCDB sort of stepped in it, though. They've been together for 10 years, the families have met. Honor killing isn't the first thing that would have come to my mind in this scenario.

Anything that connects hindus, marriage, and sex just doesn't really work on askme, it is a big blindspot in the userbase, pasted over with PC preconceptions. That's my theory, anyways.

This would be a better resource for dealing with the OP's issues.

By: Kwine

Kwine — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 09:39:55 -0800

If we get the result that cortex is Woody, the analogy is broken.

By: dreamsign

dreamsign — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:18:25 -0800

If Jessamyn is Carla, I think that makes matthowie Eddie LeBec...

By: one_bean

one_bean — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 10:30:50 -0800

Fathers, brothers, cuckolded husbands, any men in the family / social network of ~~Muslim~~ women are potential lethal dangers, this is something very real

Fixed that one for you, too.

By: tr33hggr

tr33hggr — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:44:16 -0800

My cat's breath smells like cat food.

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 11:47:14 -0800

Cats are potential lethal dangers, this is something very real.

By: box

box — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:05:00 -0800

What was the name of that other, rival bar, that they sometimes played in softball or bowling or whatnot? Larry's Old-Time Tavern? Gary's Good-Time Tavern? Something like that.

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:13:48 -0800

A little of each. It was Gary's Old Towne Tavern .

By: Ethereal Bligh

Ethereal Bligh — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:17:12 -0800

"Oh, come on. ikkyu2 is obviously Frasier. "

Maybe so—and I think I'm a lot more like Diane, unfortunately.

Sam Malone: matthowie
Coach: konolia
Carla Tortelli: quonsar
Diane Chambers: Ethereal Bligh
Norm Peterson: MiguelCardoso
Cliff Clavin: Steven C. Den Beste
Woody Boyd: jonmc
Frazier Crane: languagehat
Lilith Sternin: y2karl
Rebecca Howe: amberglow
Nick Tortelli: davy

Rebecca Howe isn't really that good of a fit for amberglow, but I wanted to fit him in there somewhere.

By: Burhanistan

Burhanistan — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 12:36:14 -0800

Everyone else is just a bar patron extra in one's own sitcom.

By: shmegegge

shmegegge — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:08:13 -0800

no way is jessamyn carla. chicken fucking aside, jessamyn is absolutely diane. metafilter does not have, near as i can figure, anyone who really fits the carla personality, except maybe dame. but even dame is more of an educated smart who doesn't take shit from anyone, where carla is the street smart one who doesn't take shit from anyone.

By: phaedon

phaedon — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:35:25 -0800

Completely ridiculous, disgusting CNN story. popup

By: box

box — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 13:56:10 -0800

Cheers didn't have a lot of good parts for female characters. Can we try it again with Full House?

By: cortex

cortex — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:05:22 -0800

Cut. It. Out.

By: caddis

caddis — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:49:54 -0800

jonmc = carla

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 14:51:45 -0800

cortex = Dave Coulier

By: quonsar

quonsar — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 15:02:36 -0800

no frickin way am i gonna be the olsen twins.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 17:40:22 -0800

There are enough honour killings in British Columbia that I think SCDB was right in mentioning it, even if he was uncouth in his wording.

By: occhiblu

occhiblu — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 19:21:56 -0800

There are enough honour killings in British Columbia that I think SCDB was right in mentioning it, even if he was uncouth in his wording.

In the United States:

# 1.3 million women and 834,732 men are physically assaulted by an intimate partner annually
# 201,394 women are forcibly raped by an intimate partner annually
# 11% of women in homosexual relationships and 23% of men in homosexual relationships report being raped, physically assaulted, and/or stalked by an intimate partner
# 503,485 women and 185,496 men are stalked by an intimate partner annually
# 1-25% of all pregnant women are battered during pregnancy
# 30-40% of women's emergency room visits are for injuries due to domestic violence
# 30% of women killed in the U.S. are killed by their husbands or boyfriends
# 50% of men who assaulted their female partners also assaulted their children
# 3.3 million children witness domestic violence each year

In British Columbia:
Honour killings were almost unheard of in Britain until a few years ago but police and the Crown now estimate there are about a dozen a year.

As someone else said above, unless you're bringing up the possibility of women or gay men being raped, abused, and killed in every single relationship thread, choosing to do so in this one is nothing more than racism and fear-mongering.

By: occhiblu

occhiblu — Tue, 12 Jun 2007 19:22:25 -0800

Sorry, meant to delete "gay" in the previous post...

By: achmorrison

achmorrison — Wed, 13 Jun 2007 08:00:34 -0800

# 1-25% of all pregnant women are battered during pregnancy

So I guess the error bars on that "statistic" are only +/- 24%.