Comments on: Bollywood screenwriting overload

Bollywood screenwriting overload

holloway — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 03:33:05 -0800

Cripes, how long did that take you?

By: skallas

skallas — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 03:49:50 -0800

Its like memepool on crack. Err, I meant memepool on c r a c k.

By: EatenByAGrue

EatenByAGrue — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 04:16:06 -0800

While overkill, I think it's kinda interesting, especially if you don't realize each word is a separate link. Everyone that clicked would potentially have a different starting point for the thread.

By: Su

Su — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 05:34:14 -0800

Jeezus.
Tamim is sort of known for finding every possible angle to link in a post but...
Um, wow.

By: ColdChef

ColdChef — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 07:14:26 -0800

Bravo.

By: gd779

gd779 — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 07:17:14 -0800

Wow. Just... wow.

By: corpse

corpse — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 07:42:42 -0800

I counted 85 links, but I could be wrong.

By: eyeballkid

eyeballkid — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 07:49:50 -0800

I could cry.

By: Dean_Paxton

Dean_Paxton — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:22:18 -0800

Not overkill at all. This is simply poetry. The gauntlet has been tossed down.

By: Mo Nickels

Mo Nickels — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:35:31 -0800

Loved it.

We need a program that does links like this automatically. In one field type the text to be linked letter by letter. In another field list all the URLs, each one on its own line. Click submit and each letter is linked to an URL.

By: xyzzy

xyzzy — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:45:02 -0800

I must be in the minority. This particular blogism is a pet peeve of mine. Pretty impressive, though. =)

By: sugarfish

sugarfish — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 08:46:07 -0800

yay, tamim. :) that's the best fpp i've ever seen.

By: mattpfeff

mattpfeff — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:00:04 -0800

We need a program that does links like this automatically.

No-o-o-o-o-o-o!! I agree this is really impressive. But it's very hard to check out each link (esp. if you are using a trackpad -- argh), and there's no information distinguishing any of them (so it's a lot of work to find ones that might be especially interesting).

A tip o' the hat to Tamim for his research and post-craft, but the last thing I'd want to see is a million such posts that people put together just because they could.

By: rks404

rks404 — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:03:57 -0800

Although I am in awe of Tamin's post, I'd hate to see it become standard practice on Metafilter.

By: y6y6y6

y6y6y6 — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 09:17:44 -0800

Filter. Not just a good idea - it's the law.

By: Doug

Doug — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:30:06 -0800

I think it's great. It's suplimental information, if you're interested in the post. Why would someone not want more information? I'm sure those aren't just random sites Tamim got from Yahoo. He finds them all interesting and infomative (thus we still got filter).

I don't understand the dislike of this kind of linking. Someone does a lot of research, and spends a lot of time on their post, and they still get flack. Might as well just link to CNN.

By: moz

moz — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:34:17 -0800

tamim's been working on that post for weeks.
no, really.

By: tomorama

tomorama — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:41:44 -0800

Information overload.

By: machaus

machaus — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:43:50 -0800

did it foster a better discussion?

By: MiguelCardoso

MiguelCardoso — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:49:31 -0800

Plus, the mouse-overs give you the information you need to choose the links. If you're going to do something well, do it even better. The fact that we couldn't - or wouldn't - do it shouldn't make us envious. Well, not more than a bit.

It's a brilliantly put together post, concisely and interestingly phrased, which delivers a wide range of references, available for a wide range of responses.

Bollywood is bigger than Hollywood and, as a theme, just about runs the gamut of human nature, "la societé du spectacle", cultural studies, economics, aesthetics...you name it, it's there for the thinking and dissecting.

So the number of links is exactly appropriate. I neither knew - or cared - anything for popular Indian films(though I'm a Ray nut, also linked)and, as I'm working my way through the links, have become very interested.

The India/Pakistan, Hindu/Islam divide, so politically important nowadays, is an obvious hook, for example. At least in the UK Pakistanis regularly watch Indian movies and it probably de-fundamentalizes them a little bit.

Thank you, tamim.

If there's a tragedy, it's that

By: MiguelCardoso

MiguelCardoso — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:53:14 -0800

the comments so far have been fewer in number than the ones here. I admit I feel a bit intimidated too - a mixture of guilt and fear of looking ignorant - but surely each one of us can single out one or two links in our own areas of interest and make a worthwhile remark. As a few have indeed done already.

(sorry I hit post instead of preview - saves time, though, huh?<small) :)

By: MiguelCardoso

MiguelCardoso — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:53:51 -0800

By: MiguelCardoso

MiguelCardoso — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 10:55:13 -0800

That was me trying to close the small tag. Then realized it wasn't necessary. I'll get my coat...

By: Doug

Doug — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:06:50 -0800

did it foster a better discussion?

Is discussion the be all and end all of Metafilter?

By: drezdn

drezdn — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:24:51 -0800

Is discussion the be all and end all of Metafilter?

I've been thinking about this lately. Sometimes a link can be enjoyable without generating any comments, and should still be worth posting, because people will probably be interested in looking at it....

With the Bollywood post, anyone who is interested in finding numerous sites on the genre can find them now, thanks to that truly inspiredly insane post.

By: drezdn

drezdn — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 11:28:09 -0800

By: lnicole

lnicole — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 12:14:57 -0800

tamim is my hero =)

I wanted to link each letter of that to all of his linkeriffic posts that I adore so much, but my skills pale in comparison.

Thanks for giving us great reading material for days (it might take me a while!) when mefi isn't quite as exciting as it could be.

By: riffola

riffola — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:10:08 -0800

Those are not just Bollywood related links, I would call it the "concise Indian arts & culture directory"

Absolutely brilliant post, very well researched.

By: hincandenza

hincandenza — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:33:05 -0800

A waste of space.
An extremely well researched concept, to be sure. But if he has that much to say about Indian cinema, he should get one a' them blogs himself, or just get his own damn web page- they're still free at a lot of sites. Otherwise, as someone else said- FILTER IT. Post the main link (uh, whichever one that was) and then just keep one link to "I have related links on my web page here, for those seeking a lot more information (self-linking be damned)".
While I'm a fan of the discussion aspect of MeFi, something a few purists dislike, this is going too far- take it to MetaDissertation or MetaThesis.

By: riffola

riffola — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:40:08 -0800

Here are all the links from the last line of his post:
Satyajit Ray portal
Apu Trilogy
Ray review
Mani Kaul
Indian theater review and a screenplay by Tagor
Indian culture
History of sound in Indian movies
Art films a bad influence?
Indian movies resources
Indian literature collection at British Library
Languages of India
Language map of India
Indian arts and culture
Bhasa, the earliest known Sanskrit dramatist
Nepal National Library Sanskrit Collection. None online.
Directory of Sanskrit links
Manipuri portal
Manipuri culture
Electronic archive on Assam and Assamese culture
Assamese language and literature
Assamese magazine reviews local theatre troop
Assamese entertainment
Directory of Bengali links
Directory of Bengali literature links
Bangla Academy
Directory of Bangla arts and entertainment links
Bangla webzine and online community
Oriya portal
Orissa TV
Oriya songs
Directory of Hindi links
Good Indian site for cultural information
Pakistani Kozmo, sells Urdu books and CDs
Urdu literature
100 great Urdu books
Urdu portal
Directory of Urdu links
Kashmiri portal
Directory of Marathi links
Marathi Yahoo Club
Punjabi portal
Punjabi culture, music
Punjabi library and dictionary. Busy server.
Gujarati language resources
Write email in Gujarati (and buy guju books)
Gujurati Yahoo Club
Gujarati webzine
South indian music
Directory of Indian classical dances
Kannada literature portal. Needs new home or server space.
Kannada music
Learn Kannada
Modern Tamil authors
Maps of India
Directory of Tamil links
Telugu portal
Directory of Telugu links
Telugu literature
Learn Malayalam
Malayalam movie database
Malayalam literature
Maluwood
Indians who write English literature
Indian book store
Books on Saris
Famous Kolkata book house with best seller lists
Childrens books
Hindu religious books
Top ten best seller lists
Indian book store
Books on the Himalayas
Stories of Ramayana
Hinduism stories
Stories of Ramayana
Biographies of great Indians
Directory of Hinduism links
Valmiki's Ramayana
Directory of Indian literature links
Stories of the Mahabharata
Rubaiyat - e - Omar Khayyam
Directory of Omar Khayyam links
Rumi
Directory of Rumi links
Bollywood gossip and info site
Bollywood news site
Directory of Bollywood links
Filmfare Magazine
Femina Magazine
Yahoo India Movies
Magazine for and by progressive Indian women seeking to be trophy wives of progressive Indian men
Online Indian community
Hindu extremist webzine
Kolkata portal
Indian multilingual mega portal
Indian music portal
Another Indian music portal. Busy server.
Unpublished Indian authors
Mumbai Film Festival

By: rusty

rusty — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:46:14 -0800

Who on earth is going to go read all of those? What happened to the Filter? Is it just MetaEverythingOnTheWeb now?

Snarkiness aside, the research is impressive, but the letter-linking is, IMO, useless. Pick one or two outstanding resources and link to them. In that mass of links, how should I know which one or ones are worth looking at? Are they all incredibly top-notch?

I think what I'm trying to get at here is, the whole point of sites like MeFi is to save us from having to churn through masses of similar websites like this. If not "the whole point" it has to be at least high on the list of points. Posts like that are largely useless to me.

Disclaimer: Just my opinion, YMMV, not trying to say "MeFi must be THIS and nothing else", etc.

By: riffola

riffola — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 13:56:42 -0800

Actually now that I've listed in a slightly more readable form, I agree that some links could have been dropped. That's just overkill

By: tamim

tamim — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 15:51:05 -0800

I have worked on this post, on and off, for about a week and a half; and seriously since Wednesday night. It is essentially the fruit of browsing during the down time at #mefi on Wednesday and Thursday nights. The finishing touches, the title tags for every link, and editing out similar and incestuous sites that link to each other, were done Friday night.

I have thought of posting a 100 link post for a few months now. When I posted my 98^th post in June, I thought I should do something special for my 100^th post. Something to give back to the MeFi community. As my luck would have it, the first few I attempted maxed out at around 38 quality links. It's very difficult to find that many unique, non-incestuous web sites on any topic. While every topic has some intangible benefits, very few come with a tangible gift. It is even more difficult to squeeze in 100 links in four sentences or less.

Seeing that I was going no where with it, I put the 100 link post idea on hiatus. When I came across the elusive video mentioned in a MeFi thread, I figured linking to it was more important than finding 100 links for something else. When Kabul fell, Reuters ran a wire report, but it was not on CNN or any other TV stations. I checked FreeRepublic, and they had not posted it either. The possibility of scooping FR on a breaking story was too tempting to pass up. I mean, given the swiftness of the Freepers to post a breaking story, sometimes I wonder if Freepers work in tandem where one Freeper with a baseball bat whacks the 'news' to 'break it' as his tag-team partner with a laptop posts the 'breaking news' on FreeRepublic. After that, the whole 100 link post project was put on hold. Good quality stuff worthy of FPP doesn't fall from the sky, as they once used to.

When I saw the Bollywood screen-writing competition at Sulekha, I figured this was something I can develop into a legitimate 100 link post. Looking at the post itself, it refers to other writing projects at MeFi, it offers up $4,000 to the winner, which is a tangible gift, and has enough supporting information to give someone a legitimate shot at winning the $4,000 and a trip to Mumbai. The intangible benefit of all that linking is that, those curious enough can come away with a very concise knowledge of Indian people, their culture(s), their lives, languages. literature, music, dances and not to mention movies. The links give a multi-dimensional view of Indian life than can be gained via encyclopedic knowledge of Apu Nahasapeemapetilon. And all that is accomplished in just two sentences.

The links were not meant to be read in a day. Anyone serious enough to write a Bollywood movie idea would take their time. If I am not mistaken, almost everyone at MeFi would have about a week to ten days at least off between now and the new year. Those in colleges would have a longer break. Treat this post as my gift to you in this holiday season.

The links are not in a random order. This is the outline I used to link the links from left to right:

Satyajit Ray

Mani Kaul

Overview/History

Languages [from East to West]
- Sanskrit
- Manipuri
- Bengali
- Oriya
- Hindi
- Urdu
- Kashmiri
- Marathi
- Punjabi
- Gujarati
- Kannada
- Tamil
- Telugu
- Malayalam
- English

Bookstores

Literary/Cultural Inspirations
- Ramayana
- Mahabharata
- Persian Literature
  - Omar Khayyam
  - Rumi

Bollywood

Indian pop-culture

Miscellanies

You can mouse over to see the title to see where in the outline you are. There are 108 never before posted to front page links in that post. I had linked to Regina Ziegler's Erotic Tales before as a comment in a thread.

India is a very diverse country. The Hindus in Manipur are culturally and linguistically different than those in Tamil Nadu. It is similar to the differences between the Muslims from East of Persia and those from Arabian peninsular and points West; Christians in Germany and in Italy; Jews in Forest Hills and in Williamsburg. Just because they look alike or have names you can't pronounce, thinking all Indians to be the same is wrong. I picked about 3-5 links from languages that awards a Sahitya Academy Awards. There are way more languages and cultural groups in India than those I linked. While filtering out the incestuous links, I took out links to Tamil Electronic Library and Tamil Literature Online, two of the best and most extensive Tamil language resources on the net, cause they are linked to in the second paragraph at the linked Modern Tamil Authors page. The only link I think has no benefit in online research is the link to Nepal National Library, because none of their collection is online. It's there incase anyone reading MeFi happens to be in Katmandu and decides to have a look at the nearest Sanskrit resource.

The links are hardly about 'Bollywood' or 'Bollywood genre.' It is about Indian people. All the different Indian people. Flesh and blood. If someone wants to write a screen-play, the new and different "Bollywood movie idea," linking back to 100 Bollywood news and gossip site isn't very helpful. On the other hand knowledge of people and their culture is.

There are some fun things I learned during the research. Languages from Eastern India: Assamese, Manipuri and Bengali use the same alphabet set. Phoneticized Google directories are as helpful as asking a blind man for directions. That on its own can be a front page post, since we link to every time Google adds word or a sentence on the home page. I think phoneticizing the directory is counter productive, because everyone who knows English alphabets can read English, but not everyone understands what phoneticized words mean in English.

For those who'd love to learn more about Indian people, but can't be bothered to click the links, here is the PowerPoint slide version of the links:

India is a big country with many languages.

Indian people speaking one language differ culturally from those speaking another language.

There is more to Indian movies than Bollywood Hindi movies.

Maluwood, the lesser known half brother of Bollywood, is the Malayalam movie industry.

Almost all languages in India have their own movies and stage plays.

There are more things in heaven and earth ...

I would like to thank lnicole and moz for occasional copy-editing support. I'd also like to thank Hildago and j.edwards for reassuring me that street-cred is over-rated and that I shouldn't worry about it. I'd also like to thank sugarfish and po for moral support. Kindall missed the final days of this development, by reason of, what we have attributed to having a 'hot date.' But thanks, anyway. I should also mention that, lnicole, Google searcher extraordinaire, and you may remember her as the one who found the Iron Chef recipe site, volunteered to find me some links. But I, being a micro-managing freak, politely declined. I'd also like to thank all those who said anything nice about the post.

I have a few (maybe 4 or 5) 30+ link 'would be FPP's in various text files in my computer. Odds are they will not see the light of day. And seeing that everyone else at MeFi is either 'New Yorkers' or 'Americans,' no matter where they live, I am not worried of being scooped by someone else. Right now I am kind of embarrassed that the discussion about the thread itself is longer than the strategizing about screen-play ideas.

By: j.edwards

j.edwards — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:08:36 -0800

Thank you, tamim - I will be reading it for weeks.

To a few other people -- the post is well thought out and interesting, and takes of almost no space on the front page. It provides additional (to say the least) resources on the topic. Why should he put it in a personal blog? Unlike the typical too-much-info post, it is concise and to the point.

I'd say tamim has set the new funky standard for high-content posts.

By: palegirl

palegirl — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:18:11 -0800

damn. you're my hero.

By: Sapphireblue

Sapphireblue — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 16:45:36 -0800

brilliant, devious, and sure to go down in metafilter history. insta-mefimeme.

also: linkerrific! but mouseoverless in Netscape 4.x, sadly.

By: mr_crash_davis

mr_crash_davis — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 17:53:28 -0800

"It's there incase anyone reading MeFi happens to be in Katmandu and decides to have a look at the nearest Sanskrit resource."

I was going to gently mock tamim over this line. Then I realized that someone in Katmandu needing a look at a Sanskrit resource would be more likely to be reading MetaFilter than just about any other English-language site I could think of.

By: fuq

fuq — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 19:23:19 -0800

That is the single most beautiful thing I have ever laid eyes on.

By: Optamystic

Optamystic — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 20:13:22 -0800

Huzzah!!!!!!!

By: geoff.

geoff. — Sat, 15 Dec 2001 23:44:57 -0800

For all those who are saying he's not filtering, well he just tried to show the whole Indian culture in 100 some odd links.

I want to see less crap like this and more Reuters links! Reuters! Reuters!

By: gleemax

gleemax — Sun, 16 Dec 2001 03:05:43 -0800

I am confused, amazed, and overjoyed.

By: Big Fat Tycoon

Big Fat Tycoon — Sun, 16 Dec 2001 08:02:32 -0800

Impressive, but it gives me a headache (and is hard to use, too). Why not link within the body of the discussion? Gimmickry.

By: kindall

kindall — Sun, 16 Dec 2001 11:02:41 -0800

Yes, it is a gimmick. But it is a beautiful gimmick. It is gimmick as art. I weep with the joy of it.

By: j.edwards

j.edwards — Sun, 16 Dec 2001 16:55:31 -0800

Why not link within the body of the discussion? Gimmickry.

Heh, did you see the size of the list of links earlier in this thread? He'd be in MeTa for a totally different reason.

By: dness2

dness2 — Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:37:04 -0800

Pure art.

Now if you can pare down your acceptance speech to five words, you'd really have tears of wonderment streaming down my face.

By: Big Fat Tycoon

Big Fat Tycoon — Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:48:24 -0800

j.edwards: Yeah, I did see that list, which is why I suggested linking in the body of the discussion -- I've seen internal posts that were twice as long as that.

By: Big Fat Tycoon

Big Fat Tycoon — Sun, 16 Dec 2001 17:48:57 -0800

(Mostly from Tamim, now that I think about it.)

By: rodii

rodii — Sun, 16 Dec 2001 18:03:09 -0800

Now if you can pare down your acceptance speech to five words, you'd really have tears of wonderment streaming down my face.

Well, if phoneme-by-phoneme links are allowed, that should be easy.

By: mattpfeff

mattpfeff — Sun, 16 Dec 2001 20:06:50 -0800

Well, if phoneme-by-phoneme links are allowed, that should be easy.

"T H A N K Y O U F O R Y O U R S U P P O R T!"

By: Nothing

Nothing — Sun, 16 Dec 2001 22:10:25 -0800

While I'd hate to see every post have a hundred links, I'd love it if even twenty percent of front page posts had half that much thought put into them.

Beautiful, Tamim.

By: chiheisen

chiheisen — Mon, 17 Dec 2001 00:33:27 -0800

I am absolutely in awe.

Even cooler was the explanation behind it.

Bravo