Comments on: Trainwreck Thread

Trainwreck Thread

Steven C. Den Beste — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 11:29:12 -0800

Privatize profit. Socialize risk. Trainwreck thread.

All capitalists are evil, greedy, heartless bastards. All socialists are fascists. Now that we've gotten that out of the way, could someone please mop up the blood in that thread? Or better yet, delete it outright? (Why is it impossible around here to disagree without someone without hating them, and imputing to him evil motives and/or mental illness?)

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 11:32:23 -0800

I removed the two "screw you, no screw YOU" comments, but is there really a reason to delete the thread outright?

By: flatluigi

flatluigi — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 11:36:37 -0800

(Why is it impossible around here to disagree without someone without hating them, and imputing to him evil motives and/or mental illness?)

Because it's the internet.

no, really. semi-anonymity does wonders for that sort of thing.

By: juiceCake

juiceCake — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 11:36:51 -0800

There is absolutely no reason to delete the thread outright.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 11:37:20 -0800

It's a good link, so the thread should stay.

By: Steven C. Den Beste

Steven C. Den Beste — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 11:38:11 -0800

is there really a reason to delete the thread outright?

It seems like trainwreck bait.

By: parmanparman

parmanparman — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 11:39:16 -0800

It seems like trainwreck bait.

Good thing you are not a moderator.

By: bruce

bruce — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 11:40:23 -0800

i didn't initiate the specific interpersonal hostility, but i will fight all comers to the finish on this. i don't do callouts myself, but am curiously and dispassionately awaiting the results of mr. den beste's sally to see if any good comes of it. it's been alleged that capitalists are evil. let's take one specific capitalist we all have a connection with. the founding of metafilter was a quintessentially capitalist, entrepreneurial act. is mathowie evil? should the state confiscate his assets (including this website) for the benefit of all? whaddaya say wendell m'boy?

By: box

box — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 11:41:53 -0800

mathowie? Definitely evil.

By: Happy Dave

Happy Dave — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 11:41:54 -0800

Oooo, can't have strong opinions round here. We've proved that many, many times, haven't we?

By: bruce

bruce — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 11:44:05 -0800

upon reviewing jessamyn's deletions, i am content with the state of the record in the subject thread. it's awfully hard for me to feel like a victim on the internet when i'm only eight minutes away from world-class chinook fishing!

By: ZachsMind

ZachsMind — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:02:58 -0800

/me likes trainwreck bait.

Please continue the petty bickering.

"All socialists are fascists."

Waitatick. I thought Shrub was a fascist, but he's not a socialist. I hate all these ish-isms. I can't keep them straight.

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:06:31 -0800

bruce: it's awfully hard for me to feel like a victim on the internet when i'm only eight minutes away from world-class chinook fishing!

I hope you brought your trainwreck bait. I hear that's really what hooks 'em.

By: orthogonality

orthogonality — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:20:44 -0800

Steven C. Den Beste writes "It seems like trainwreck bait."

Then go civilly argue your point in the thread, or ignore it. Deletion isn't justified because you think Metafilter can't handle the topic.

By: Balisong

Balisong — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:27:41 -0800

I always thought the peak goal of Capitalism (corporatism) is a fascist state. Or maybe that was a private militia police authoritarian oligarchy/theocracy.

By: wendell

wendell — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:32:48 -0800

I do not very often disagree with jessamyn's deletions, but then I'm not very deleted, but I wish to make clear that I was not attacking bruce personally, I was attacking bruce's "message" in a similar, but more factually accurate way than he attacked "barber's message" here...

and I quote my deleted comment (because this is MetaTalk)...

bruce's Message:

(1) we know you're too stupid to handle capitalism so we're going to screw you over... badly

(2) some of us are also too stupid to handle capitalism, but we control the government so we can change the rules whenever we want to make sure we don't fail to screw you over ... badly.

(3) unlike you, we have a social conscience guided by the belief that whoever dies with the most toys wins.

Merry Christmas, bruce.

Directly addressing bruce at the end may have been too personal a 'gotcha', but I stand by the rest of my message.

And, what the heck, here's bruce's response to me:

wendell's message:

1. i od'd on some powerful drugs and am now having a psychotic break, imputing evil to bruce and every other entrepreneur in america, where none exists.

2. i am a noble ascetic in the mold of st. francis, whereas bruce and his ilk may be regarded akin to marie antoinette with imelda marcos's mastercard.

3. i am a perpetual victim of all these businesses, getting screwed over all the time, and because i can't function in this environment, i need to install socialism pronto with me and my clique as your benevolent overlords.

merry xmas wendell!

I do wish to clarify that I have not OD'd on anything, partly because I do not support sellers of illegal drugs, who are "entrepreneurs" in the purest sense of the word. But bruce's line about "imputing evil to bruce and every other entrepreneur in america, where none exists," is either the funniest or most poorly worded comment written by a retired lawyer in this forum. (NO evil among every entrepreneur in America, LOL!)

I am no victim either, being eight minutes away from some of California's most beautiful coastline as well as excellent fish & chips and fish tacos (not a fisherman myself - never even owned a Big Mouth Billy Bass).

By: "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys

"Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:36:29 -0800

I always thought the peak goal of Capitalism (corporatism) is a fascist state.

I thought corporatism was developed because laissez-faire capitalism was seen as distasteful. Keep in mind that many ardent participants in capitalist systems really have no commitment to the ideology and would rather cement their position through government.

By: panamax

panamax — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:44:32 -0800

thanks for posting your comment wendell. jessamyn's deletion of yours was way out of line, and well, bruce's follow-up idiocy and raw ad-hom speaks for itself.

By: spiderwire

spiderwire — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:47:49 -0800

Waitatick. I thought Shrub was a fascist, but he's not a socialist. I hate all these ish-isms. I can't keep them straight.

A man should not believe in an ism. He should believe in himself.

By: wendell

wendell — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:47:50 -0800

it's been alleged that capitalists are evil.

Which I have never claimed. There are many evil capitalists and many good capitalists. Our current Not-Really-A-Free-Market-System, enforced by America's current government, does way too often favor Evil Capitalists over Good Capitalists. I have massive amounts of respect for those individuals like Matt Haughey who have achieved Success without compromising his Principles. I wish there were more like him and I wish he and other like him were even more successful, but I do NOT support any governmental action that would MAKE it so. I am not a Socialist.

I do believe that any and all governmental entities must be specifically dedicated to SERVE the people, not to RULE them. I do not believe any entity other than human beings should have "rights" whether it be Corporations or States.

And I believe, having worked for 30 years in various Capitalist Entrepreneurial environments, that having Principles, including Free Market Principles, is one of the biggest obstacles to Success. And, having graduated from a private high school where almost 50% of my class went on to law school, the highest concentration of Evil in any profession in America today is Lawyers.

By: bruce

bruce — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:52:02 -0800

ok wendell, thank you for partially clearing it up. the part you left unclear: where is the evil? you seem to be postulating a hidden reservoir of evil in our capitalist cohort (which includes me and a lot of other folks on here who have ever operated their own businesses) which is somehow so pervasive and indelible, beyond the reach of current laws, that we need to install socialism and expropriate private property unconstitutionally (no deprivation of life, liberty or property w/o due process of law - 5th amendment). as the advocate of changing the status quo, the onus is on you to identify (all, some, just one?) of these evil entrepreneurs and the property you would have seized in our name, so that we may evaluate your arguments (and i'm afraid to say, your sanity as well).

By: spiderwire

spiderwire — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:52:22 -0800

And, having graduated from a private high school where almost 50% of my class went on to law school, the highest concentration of Evil in any profession in America today is Lawyers.

Marketing.
Sales.
Professional mercenaries.

By: bruce

bruce — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:56:30 -0800

whoa, shoulda previewed:

you believe that having principles is one of the biggest obstacles to success?

you believe the highest concentration of evil in any profession in america today is lawyers?

well sir, there's you're problem right there, you're deluded.

By: homunculus

homunculus — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:57:18 -0800

I believe in jism.

By: bruce

bruce — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 12:57:36 -0800

your problem, not you're problem, buhhhhhhh!

By: Item

Item — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 13:01:33 -0800

I thought you were going out to kill some fish.

By: wendell

wendell — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 13:18:55 -0800

there's your problem right there, you're deluded.

No, my main problem is that I am so accustomed to making short snarky comments here that the last sentence of any long comment of mine usually becomes something more smartass than heartfelt. If you, bruce, however believe with all your heart everything you've written in these two threads, then you have achieved a level of delusion usually reserved for the truly evil to enjoy their ill-gotten gains without a qualm of conscience.

But yes, I do believe that having principles is one of the biggest obstacles to success. Personally, it was not my biggest obstacle, but it never was much of an asset.

And you are so much fun to tweak. Much more than my previous MetaFilter Archnemisises ... or Archnemeses... or Archnemisis Dudes.

By: edgeways

edgeways — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 13:32:21 -0800

Can someone post a question to Askme about this so it can hit the triumverate of the major *Me sites? Because what we NEED right now is a great little cross site grudge match. Merry bloody Christmas.

By: WCityMike

WCityMike — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 13:37:07 -0800

All capitalists are evil, greedy, heartless bastards.
All socialists are fascists.

Vote Ron Paul!

I'm a Democrat, but it seemed like the appropriate punchline.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 13:39:38 -0800

Problems as I see them:

Bruce is an idiot.

Wendell is arguing a middle position.

SCDB is an unreliable arbiter.

The appropriate remedy has already been taken, leaving us nowhere to go save calling people idiots.

By: wendell

wendell — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 13:42:08 -0800

edgeways, it won't work 'cause I rarely give answers in AskMe, having long ago admitted to screwing up my own life well enough that I don't like giving advice to others. Opinions on the state of the world around me, on the other had, I can provide with impunity. Dammit, he was right, I am deluded.

and WCityMike, the punchline didn't work because we know
All libertarians (including Ron Paul) are idiots.
Now, what do you have to say about nihilists?

By: cortex

cortex — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 13:45:24 -0800

I'm only eight minutes away from meh.

By: wendell

wendell — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 13:53:08 -0800

I'm also eight minutes away from a place that sells giant donuts. Capitalism at its finest. How about you?

By: FelliniBlank

FelliniBlank — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 13:56:29 -0800

"I was only twenty-four hours from Tulsa."

By: Cool Papa Bell

Cool Papa Bell — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 13:59:35 -0800

The appropriate remedy has already been taken, leaving us nowhere to go save calling people idiots.

Must. Control. Self. Don't. Rise. To. Bait.

Seriously, a capitalism vs. socialism thread where I could've (again) called everyone a lefty communist hippie and I missed it? Fuck.

By: ssg

ssg — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:01:14 -0800

I'm having a little cognitive dissonance moment here: Steven C. Den Beste is against arguing? Really?

By: tkolar

tkolar — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:03:42 -0800

What about MY needs? I'm stuck in an overwhelmingly Catholic city that is effectively shut down for the next three days. For tourists it really is shut down as the predator/prey ratio has shifted so radically that the muggers have organized a lottery for who gets to work the Plaza Grande.

The only thing that can possibly help with my frustration would be if you two would stop taking these pathetically passive aggressive stands ("I don't object to the deletion, but here, let me repost everything that was deleted") and start some name calling in earnest. It's too soon after the last round of flameouts to hope for that, but some serious bitching and moaning about the nanny culture of Metafilter would perk me right up.

TIA.

By: wendell

wendell — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:06:38 -0800

Seriously, a capitalism vs. socialism thread where I could've (again) called everyone a lefty communist hippie and I missed it?

And you were only eight minutes away...
I sense a new in-joke being born...

passive aggressive stands ("I don't object to the deletion, but here, let me repost everything that was deleted")

I consider it more Zen... fortunately, Jon returns with real Moments of Zen in two weeks.

By: nola

nola — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:12:33 -0800

This stuff is getting old. I'm not being glib it really is getting old. It's because these topics are like intellectual trench warfare without the useful mustard gas that would make things swing in anyone's favor. So enjoy beating your head againtst the wall.

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:20:58 -0800

the part you left unclear: where is the evil?

it's wherever people are seen as tools or means first and human beings second, something both capitalists and communists have been guilty of

By: bruce

bruce — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:34:08 -0800

what can i say to a guy who tells me he's a failure because he wouldn't abandon his principles? i can see he wants some kind of government handout, but i don't feel it's my responsibility to support him. his likening of me to the "truly evil [who] enjoy their ill-gotten gains without a qualm of conscience" raises the questions of just how my gains were ill-gotten (just because i was a lawyer?) and just what i owe him (imho, i don't owe him jack shit).

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:36:32 -0800

"it's wherever people are seen as tools or means first and human beings second, something both capitalists and communists have been guilty of"

Heidegger argued that was the Spirit of Technology, and endemic to modernism.

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:39:13 -0800

what can i say to a guy who tells me he's a failure because he wouldn't abandon his principles?

"i'm sorry to hear that, mr president"

By: srboisvert

srboisvert — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:43:13 -0800

Where is the train wreck? I love train wrecks. I survived the Great Mississauga Train Wreck. I want to survive more. Please tell me where it is so I can go survive it. Please. I am desperate for more disaster to overcome. I need more t-shirt experiences.

By: Steven C. Den Beste

Steven C. Den Beste — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:46:01 -0800

Steven C. Den Beste is against arguing?

I'm in favor of reasoned, respectful debate about issues.

I'm against ad hominem.

By: "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys

"Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:46:44 -0800

I like reading and rephrasing various posts using a tone of voice and manner of speech appropriate to a young "emo" man.

"If you only understood that I was a person with feelings and not just a cog in your corporate machine, you would buy me health care!"

It's both dishonest and hilarious.

As for lawyers, they've very concerned with processes, whereas most people are concerned more with results. This can sometimes seem evil, because a lawyer will waive off a proposal to Save the World as impractical, and others will interpret this as a lack of concern regarding the underlying problem. A lot of enthusiastic, ideological types tend to see their particular cause as worth any trouble or effort at all, and see trying and failing as better than not trying at all. Lawyers tend to take a different view.

By: nola

nola — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:51:31 -0800

For a long time I felt it obvious that humanity could shape it's own systems.
That we were making the world into a reality that we had arrived at from a intellectual processe that we as humans are in control of.

I don't think we have as much control over what we do as a species as we may wish to think. What many of us could agree would be in the long run a great benefit to the human race may only be fulfilled after we are a dead and gone.

The systems we live and die by don't really seem to be in our control, and this is what people keep writing about. "Wouldn't it be great if we did 'x,y, or z'" Sure just tell that to whatever is really driving this crazy train.

It's easy to blame people that say they don't share our vision for the future, I'm not so sure that any of us are in practice behaving in a way that would truly make a difference.

Lots of pet theorories but no real change. And without a mechanism for real perposed change, the only change you and I will be seeing is blind change. I don't have the answer.

By: nola

nola — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 14:54:08 -0800

Purposed*

By: The Deej

The Deej — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:02:33 -0800

I HATE people who suggest we can't disagree without hating each other!

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:33:35 -0800

People who are against ad hominem are universally dicks.

By: kittens for breakfast

kittens for breakfast — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 15:46:44 -0800

Okay, so, SCDB doesn't like a post that's critical of capitalism. Fuuuuuuuuck. Now that our minds have all been blown, is there really any further point to this thread?

By: wendell

wendell — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:01:32 -0800

Let's see... I said... I do believe that having principles is one of the biggest obstacles to success. Personally, it was not my biggest obstacle, but it never was much of an asset.

And bruce responded with... what can i say to a guy who tells me he's a failure because he wouldn't abandon his principles?

Misstated intentionally like a true Lawyer. And as a defense mechanism, providing more support for the "evil/delusional" argument than I expected, but I want to finish this discussion having committed less ad hominem than my new Archnemisis.

i don't owe him jack shit

Something I agree with wholeheartedly. bruce, you don't owe me anything. I'm living life on my own terms and not asking for any handouts. You especially don't owe me shit, so please stop trying to feed me it.

By: CitrusFreak12

CitrusFreak12 — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:10:10 -0800

I'm against ad hominem.

SCDB is clearly hominophobic.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:13:31 -0800

bruce: No offense, but you're aruging your points in a rather counter-productive way. meaning you come off sounding like an idiot. For one thing, your first comment in that thread talked about "reading" the interview, when in fact it was a video. So you summarized the link without even clicking it.

Furthermore your claiming that everyone who doesn't like capitalism is either a failure at our capitalistic society, or a hypocrite. Furthermore you are so maximalist when it comes to capitalism that you insist that anyone who uses any product or service that involves the transfer of money must embrace full-on laissez-fair capitalism or shut up as doing anything else would be hypocritical. Including using Metafilter, because it has ads you have to pay to join or whatever.

But that's idiotic. There is a reasonable discussion of exactly unrestricted capitalism must be, exactly how much regulation is needed. Instead , you storm into the thread, and insist that anyone even raising questions is an idiot or whatever.

But in fact, it appears that you're actually the idiot.

As far as SCDB is concerned, the only reason this would be "flamebait" is if libertarian retards showed up, which unfortunately they did. The Bill Moyers interview was interesting, and the only reason the thread went badly is because of the mindless turd dropped in the thread.

By: tkolar

tkolar — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:19:24 -0800

I don't think we have as much control over what we do as a species as we may wish to think.

Look, how many times do I have to remind people about this? What you say is almost certainly true, but if you take it to it's logical conclusion you will be *terribly boring at cocktail parties*.

Nobody wants to hear that the world is vastly too complex for human management. People want to believe that -- even if they themselves feel powerless -- somebody somewhere has a grip on things.

On the other hand...

By: Dave Faris

Dave Faris — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:21:18 -0800

Scrooge lived in total harmony with the spirit of Christmas ever after, and it was always said of him, that he knew how to keep Christmas well, if any man alive possessed the knowledge. May that be truly said of us, and all of us!

And so, as Tiny Tim observed, God bless Us, Every One!

By: tkolar

tkolar — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:25:40 -0800

Scrooge had a bad acid trip and turned into a damn hippy, in other words.

By: "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys

"Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:26:29 -0800

By: nola

nola — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:30:18 -0800

delmoi I really like the idea of social responsibility but at the end of the day I keep finding myself leaning toward libertarian ideals despite what I'd like to see happen in the world. Mostly because if we aren't going to all agree to do something about the problems we face collectivealy I don't really (as a individual) care to even try because it seems like a lost cause. I'll gladly get on board with any actionable ideas that would make life on this planet better, until it looks like we are going to collectivealy move in that direction I'll be taking care of me and mine, and trying to help out where I can.
But I admire your stance and agree with you otherwise. (I was not the "libertarian retard" I'm not sure who was since I got there late)

By: juiceCake

juiceCake — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 16:59:51 -0800

For one thing, your first comment in that thread talked about "reading" the interview, when in fact it was a video.

Look just below the video and then below the word TRANSCRIPT in all caps.

By: kittens for breakfast

kittens for breakfast — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:03:44 -0800

It's not as magnificent or hilarious as all that, Steve. The transcript is easily missed, given that most people will probably just click on the video without looking elsewhere on the page. You're basically booyahing over a mistake as damning as the average typo, and I meh at you.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:09:12 -0800

Utterly hilarious. Did you click on the link yourself? Anyway, a magnificent self-pwn.

Actually, you're wrong, sorry.

By: nola

nola — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:09:44 -0800

You're basically booyahing over a mistake as damning as the average typo, and I meh at you.

Not really since the point being made was that bruce had not even clicked the link. But I don't think it's anything to get to hung up on.

By: kittens for breakfast

kittens for breakfast — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:14:13 -0800

Not really since the point being made was that bruce had not even clicked the link. But I don't think it's anything to get to hung up on.

It's an invalid point. The idea is that someone didn't click on the link because they claim there's no transcript; but the transcript is easily missed. Missing it isn't a magnificent anything. It's an oversight. Harping on that is lame.

By: bruce

bruce — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:15:05 -0800

delmoi, it was a transcript on my box (i rarely watch videos cuz i'm on 56k dialup). why don't you pull your head out of your ass and click on the link yourself.

wendell, tell me more about those principles that got in your way to success, you know, the ones you have but i don't?

By: honest knave

honest knave — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:19:59 -0800

SCDB: Much of this is not actually Ad Hominem. Just verbal abuse. Still a low blow. Probably worth deleting, but not quite ad hominem.

1. i od'd on some powerful drugs and am now having a psychotic break, imputing evil to bruce and every other entrepreneur in america, where none exists.

Two claims are made here. The substantial claim is that Wendell was "imputing evil to bruce and every other entrepreneur in america, where none exists". The prior statement alleges that Wendell has ODed on "some powerful drugs". Neither may be true, but together, they are not an ad hominem.

Ad hominem would be, "Because Wendell has OD'd on some powerful drugs, do not believe him when he imputes evil to bruce, etc..."

2. i am a noble ascetic in the mold of st. francis, whereas bruce and his ilk may be regarded akin to marie antoinette with imelda marcos's mastercard.

This point argues that wendell was resorting to ad hominem. This is untrue, if Wendell's prior post is to be believed. It is a false claim which attempts to erode Wendell's credibility by suggesting implicitly that Wendell is elitist. It would be ad hominem had not Wendell satirically introduced the validity of elitism to the conversation. But once elitism was seen as significant to the question, further fallacies had to do with composition and division rather than ad hominem.

3. i am a perpetual victim of all these businesses, getting screwed over all the time, and because i can't function in this environment, i need to install socialism pronto with me and my clique as your benevolent overlords.

This is poorly argued by bruce. If his claims are actually true and Wendell *is* a perpetual victim of these businesses, then he might very well have a reasonable claim to encourage change. The second second half, "i need to install socialism pronto with me and my clique as your benevolent overlords" stands or falls insofar as it summarises Wendell's views or statements, but it's not ad hominem, just a true or false characterisation.

Samples of legitimate ad hominem

About Bruce: "Bruce always resorts to personal attacks, so why should we listen to what he says about capitalism?"

Or more sophisticated, from the satirised POV of Wendell: "Hello, I just joined metafilter last week and my therapist thinks that if I blog while I'm high I can cope with my reality-deprived life. So listen to my arguments on capitalism v. socialism."

h, knave patiently awaits a fresh plate of beans to think about

By: kittens for breakfast

kittens for breakfast — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:22:06 -0800

wendell, tell me more about those principles that got in your way to success, you know, the ones you have but i don't?

I think you must be more principled than you've been given credit for, bruce. A really ruthless capitalist would at least have DSL by now.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:28:16 -0800

why don't you pull your head out of your ass and click on the link yourself.

Do you honestly think I haven't clicked the link? Talk about poor reasoning ability.

(i rarely watch videos cuz i'm on 56k dialup)

Really? In this day and age? Seems kind of weird that you would be accusing other people of failing at capitalism.

As far as the transcript, yeah I missed it. I just saw the big video box and clicked play. I just assumed Bruce didn't click the link not just because he talked about reading rather then watching, but also because his "summary" had nothing to do with what Barber actually said. Rather, it was a reiteration of a poorly constructed conservative strawman argument. And one that could only be made by someone with no ability to think about things in detail. But perhaps the problem isn't so much not listening, or reading, but an inability to comprehend nuanced arguments.

By: juiceCake

juiceCake — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:32:28 -0800

I just assumed Bruce didn't click the link not just because he talked about reading rather then watching, but also because his "summary" had nothing to do with what Barber actually said. Rather, it was a reiteration of a poorly constructed conservative strawman argument.

Agreed about the nature of his summary. But I attributed it to incredibly weak snark rather than not reading and/or viewing the piece.

By: bruce

bruce — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:44:44 -0800

wow, it's delmoi the broadband snob, here to impugn my internet service! skippy, dsl isn't available out here in the boonies.

By: BitterOldPunk

BitterOldPunk — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:48:13 -0800

my therapist thinks that if I blog while I'm high I can cope with my reality-deprived life

I saved SO much money by coming up with this idea independently.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:52:09 -0800

wow, it's delmoi the broadband snob, here to impugn my internet service! skippy, dsl isn't available out here in the boonies.

Oh come on. You call other people "failures at capitalism" yet you yourself failed to acquire one of the most basic consumer good of the era. It's a bit hypocritical.

By: nola

nola — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 17:59:51 -0800

It is funny considering the timber of your earlier remarks there bruce.

By: Afroblanco

Afroblanco — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:01:58 -0800

You know what would be a terrible name for a restaurant that was part-diner, part-cafeteria?

Dineria.

Nobody would ever want to eat there.

By: tkolar

tkolar — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:04:17 -0800

Oh my, this *has* become entertaining. I do appreciate everyone's efforts.

( munches fried and salted banana slices, as popcorn is unavailable )

By: bruce

bruce — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:11:09 -0800

yet you yourself failed to acquire one of the most basic consumer goods of the era...

zomg, i've been outed as not possessing at least one consumer attribute which is absolutely vital to membership in delmoi's elite! is it enough to plead that i don't need broadband because i like my internet as a mostly text experience, rarely watching videos and never playing those games where you have to shoot someone before they shoot you? you don't need broadband for reading newspapers and blogs, playing chess, go and bridge and occasional stock trades. is it enough to plead alternative status goodies (like, well, owning my own home on gorgeous acreage free and clear, or having a better wine collection than anyone here, particularly the italian reds, or having the very best cat in the world)? tell me, o oracle of consumption, is broadband the only barrier between me and your elite, or am i also barred on account of my wal-mart wardrobe and 6.5 year old toyota tacoma 4x4? should i hang my head in shame because all i have is some of the best friends in the world and a leadership role in my community signifying my involvement and its reciprocal respect, and not the supercharged webcool of you advanced broadband power users? can a 52 year old man "libertarian retard" like me ever hope to attain supercharged webcool in any form? let's throw this out to our studio audience for their input!

By: nola

nola — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:12:06 -0800

Come enjoy your favorite dishes at Dineria
Such as Beef Stroganoff
Whipped Sardines with spinach dip
Turtle muffins and fried and salted banana slices.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:26:55 -0800

God, a fight between delmoi and bruce?

Lovers of capitalization and grammar sigh somewhere.

By: nola

nola — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:28:39 -0800

Please allow me to stear this admitadly dead horse back a bit.

i'll save you the trouble of reading the interview, barber's message boils down to this:

1. you're too stupid to handle capitalism because you can't be trusted to make the right choices;

2. unlike you, we have a social conscience guided by a more enlightened morality, so we're gonna limit some of your choices for your own good.

merry xmas mefites!

The point I think you may have missed here bruce (and one it would be easy to miss giving the BS that interview was full of) is that we have choices as consumers that may be at odds with choices we might make as citizens.

I for one agree that here in America we have great opportunity to make choices affecting our world for the good that may be at odds with our wants as consumers.

Choices that most of us never really get a chance to make, instead we are busy making choices that in the long run are empty self gratifiying fishing trips that while fun don't really make us better people or happy, and leave us powerless to those who have sold us on everything but social choices that would really matter.

By: wendell

wendell — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:31:14 -0800

wendell, tell me more about those principles that got in your way to success, you know, the ones you have but i don't?

IANAL.

By: nola

nola — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:31:19 -0800

But go on talking down to those of us that wish we could collectively choose to do something cool with what our freedoms affords us.

By: bruce

bruce — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 18:54:22 -0800

nola's we have great opportunity to make choices affecting our world for the good that may be at odds with our wants as consumers is valid, too bad he subtracted from this favorable impression by denigrating fishing. his suggestion that fishing doesn't make people happy, and leaves them powerless to those who have sold them some sort of false bill of goods is absurd. i can personally attest that streamside with my salmon rig during chinook season, i'm a pretty happy dude (this is entirely independent of whether i catch anything; fishing is a process, not an end, those who know and love fishing know it's enough to be out there in the beauty of nature with a reasonable chance to catch one), and that i'm just as powerful trudging back up to my truck after a couple of hours as i was when i left home.

wendell's reply to my principles query consists solely of "ianal". this is particularly incongruous considering he's probably a liberal democrat who will have to choose between clinton, obama and edwards, lawyers all, who ya gonna vote for wendell baby? i'll go first, i was for kerry last time because he was the not-bush, i'm leaning toward ron paul this time. wendell's ianal reveals his antipathy toward the rule of law and those who administer it, whatcha gonna do wendell baby, you lightweight keyboard lenin you?

By: bruce

bruce — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:02:32 -0800

yow! just clicked on wendell's profile and caught the "still trying to decide what i want to be when i grow up." no editorial commentary i can think of can paint him any worse than his own words.

By: spiderwire

spiderwire — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:04:01 -0800

***FLAMEOUT DETECTED IN ENGINE 1***

***CONTACT LANGUAGEHAT IMMEDIATELY***

***ADVISE OF POTENTIALLY HAZARDOUS GRAMMAR AND PUNCTUATION***

***THIS IS NOT A DRILL***

By: nola

nola — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:12:35 -0800

too bad he subtracted from this favorable impression by denigrating fishing.

*slaps my forehead in exasperation*

On preview: spiderwire I don't think we can hope for anything so productive.

By: spiderwire

spiderwire — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:18:15 -0800

just talk some more shit about fishing and bandwidth and keep your fingers crossed

By: stavrosthewonderchicken

stavrosthewonderchicken — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:19:26 -0800

Thread's just fine. Lack of capitalization's annoying. 'Dineria' is not nearly as bad a name as, say, 'Vomitorium' or 'Anal Fisher's All-You-Can-Eat'. delmoi is as penetratingly insightful as he usually is. Timber is for beavers, timbre is for the rest.

Now, will someone please tell me who to hate? The vast beautiful buffet of meaningless choice brought to me by the fruits of gloriously unfettered capitalism have rendered me unable to exercise my critical faculties in anything decision more complicated than which toilet paper to buy.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:20:09 -0800

"i'm leaning toward ron paul this time."

This is my not-surprised surprised face.

By: BitterOldPunk

BitterOldPunk — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:20:25 -0800

hush y'all, you'll scare'm

By: modernnomad

modernnomad — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:21:36 -0800

having a better wine collection than anyone here

hahahaa seriously? that's what we're doing now? measuring contests? do i need a tape measure?

c'mon bruce, for a 50-something you sure sounded there like a 14 yr old boy.

By: wendell

wendell — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:25:27 -0800

i like my internet as a mostly text experience, rarely watching videos and never playing those games where you have to shoot someone before they shoot you
Again, something I am in full agreement with bruce on! Will wonders never cease!

you don't need broadband for reading newspapers and blogs, playing chess, go and bridge and occasional stock trades.
But until I had broadband access (Cable, not DSL, I'm too far out of town for the phone company but not those other capitalist wire-layers), I did not realize how much more I could read and do online in less time, leaving more time for interests, activities and friendships I really don't need to enumerate here to show my social worth. Keeping your 'gadgets' to a minimum is one thing I consider a virtue, so there may be some good in you after all. Still, you should leave yourself open to trying new things... like the Shift key on your keyboard.

who ya gonna vote for wendell baby?
Again, you are getting creepy in your "I showed you mine, now show me yours" approach. (And I considered nola's anti-fishing snark as simply that, a cheap shot, and not worthy of the kind of overanalysis you gave it - are you familiar with the MetaFilterism "overthinking a plate of beans"? You're overthinking a Green Bean Casserole for a Thanksgiving Dinner for 20 here, and it's not reflecting well on your thinking processes.) Anyway, having been born in Cleveland, Ohio, I am geographically obligated to support Dennis Kucinich, and besides, I do consider seeing a UFO is less of a negative than being a lawyer.

wendell's ianal reveals his antipathy toward the rule of law and those who administer it
I actually do have some respect for the rule of law and some of those who administer it, especially in the community where I am living now. I do not pick and choose which laws I will obey, the way some whose duty is supposedly to administer the law, and you can't force me to respect Alberto Gonzales just because Attorney General was his job. You can rest assured that this 52-year-old "lightweight keyboard lenin" is probably less a threat to a 52-year-old "libertarian retard" than you are to yourself.

By: bruce

bruce — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:27:21 -0800

my perennially youthful, ebullient outlook, nothwithstanding my chronological age, is part of my native charm!

By: wendell

wendell — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:30:39 -0800

"still trying to decide what i want to be when i grow up"

vs.

"retired lawyer, bon vivant"

If you think your Occupation is more respected than mine, you are in the wrong part of the Web.

By: wendell

wendell — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:32:39 -0800

my perennially youthful, ebullient outlook, nothwithstanding my chronological age, is part of my native charm!

Now you're lightening up! I don't know whether to feel relieved or disappointed that you didn't go full flame-out...

By: Steven C. Den Beste

Steven C. Den Beste — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:35:38 -0800

Now, will someone please tell me who to hate?

choice 1: ignorant racist fascist knuckle-dragging NASCAR-obsessed cousin-marrying road-kill-eating tobacco-juice-dribbling gun-fondling religious fanatic rednecks

choice 2: godless unpatriotic pierced-nose Volvo-driving France-loving leftwing Communist latte-sucking tofu-chomping holistic-wacko neurotic vegan weenie perverts

(Via)

By: wendell

wendell — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:39:01 -0800

There are two types of people: those who divide people into two types and those who don't.

By: spiderwire

spiderwire — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:39:53 -0800

Now you're lightening up! I don't know whether to feel relieved or disappointed that you didn't go full flame-out...

wendell wishes this would end poorly?

By: spiderwire

spiderwire — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:41:43 -0800

this will brucewell?

By: nola

nola — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:45:38 -0800

Look I told you already there will be no flame out. We got an old fisherman and a old wendell, plenty of gas but no flame.

By: bruce

bruce — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:47:13 -0800

wendell, say hello to delmoi here and suggest to him that my lack of broadband is unrelated to my social worth. so you think i'm creepy? dude, you were the one pleading your more evolved social conscience as a ground for changing the capitalist status quo to something based on your principles that you've been very coy about articulating except to say "ianal." so you're with kucinich, he's not too bad, no chance though that i can see, don't know why you'd feel creeped or ashamed to admit this, sorry if i intimidate you a little. yes i know the plate of beans but disagree with your assessment; i love fishing and am pretty good at it, i could consume kilobytes of grayspace telling you about my fishing exploits, count yourself lucky so far. i didn't like alberto gonzales either, heads up, he's gone now, it's michael mukasey now.

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:48:26 -0800

my perennially youthful, ebullient outlook, nothwithstanding my chronological age, is part of my native charm!

oh - i thought it was merely premature dementia

By: bruce

bruce — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 19:58:08 -0800

premature dementia, could be that too, termite, i forget stuff i used to know and have to look it up, aware at 52 i'm going downhill cognitively, but i have a looooong way to go and i'm gonna have fun doing it.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:06:37 -0800

"say hello to delmoi here and suggest to him that my lack of broadband is unrelated to my social worth. "

Wait, so how successful a capitalist you are is related to your social worth? Because otherwise, delmoi's remark, that you're an unsuccessful capitalist if you're on dial-up, wouldn't have raised your hackles.

Of course, that's ignoring the other possibility—that you're a blathering idiot, and are spazzing on everything, rather than any chain that can be discerned by logic.

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:08:24 -0800

i'm going downhill cognitively, but i have a looooong way to go

you should be one of those real men of genius the bud light guy keeps singing about

By: bruce

bruce — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:10:18 -0800

klang, i never said success at capitalism is related to social worth. way to try to put words in my mouth, you lying-ass, blathering spazz.

By: localhuman

localhuman — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:21:27 -0800

your right bruce, success at capitalism has very little to do with social worth.

social worth usually involves making friends, and you're not doing it here.

perhaps you don't want the friendship of anyone on metafilter, but that would raise the question as to why you're here at all.

By: clevershark

clevershark — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:24:36 -0800

Is this the Festivus "airing of grievances" discussion?..

By: CKmtl

CKmtl — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:29:56 -0800

Must we do the flameout thing?

There's christmas lights all over the place, a full moon out, and I heard something about Mars supposedly being very bright in the sky right about now. The three wise men don't need any more light to find their way to babyjesus.

Have some eggnog and brandy, and chill out people.

By: bruce

bruce — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:32:44 -0800

social worth usually involves making friends, and you're not doing it here.

in actual fact, a small but significant number of mefites have given me outstandingly positive feedback. perhaps you're confusing "making friends" with "making friends with everybody".

that would raise the question as to why you're here at all.

what if i told you i was just here to mock those who bemoan the apparent failure of gender deconstruction theory to gain ground (from your profile)? would that preclude you from being my friend?

By: wendell

wendell — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:34:36 -0800

at 52 i'm going downhill cognitively, but i have a looooong way to go and i'm gonna have fun doing it
OMG, another thing we have in common!

dude, you were the one pleading your more evolved social conscience as a ground for changing the capitalist status quo to something based on your principles that you've been very coy about articulating except to say "ianal."
DUDE, if trying to put words into someone's mouth makes someone a lying-ass, blathering spazz, you earned that title first.

The "IANAL" was designed to get your goat with the minimum number of keystrokes possible. It worked.

Also, the "still trying to decide what i want to be when i grow up" is a reminder to myself of my own limitations and to not take myself too seriously. Now, either lighten up or flame out, just make up your mind.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:40:39 -0800

Damn, bruce, I'm just killin' time until the airport taxi gets here, but you're spluttering a lot about "putting words" in people's mouths, and it's pretty funny.

OK, I seriously gotta go now. Please more lulz by morning?

By: wendell

wendell — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:42:07 -0800

a small but significant number of mefites have given me outstandingly positive feedback

I think I may know who you're talking about and, just a bit of advice, don't give them your Social Security Number.

what if i told you i was just here to mock those who bemoan the apparent failure of gender deconstruction theory to gain ground

Careful, someone may ask you to define your terms.

By: bruce

bruce — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:45:11 -0800

dude, when you profess your vaunted principles in only five letters to "get [the] goat" of people you're arguing with, you're assuming a substantial share of responsibility for any confusion and hostility that ensues. i'm wondering whether to take you at your word here that you were deliberately attempting to antagonize, or embrace the plausible notion that you were reluctant to offer those principles up for detailed inspection because they're half-baked and not quite ready for primetime.

By: Item

Item — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:45:49 -0800

Seriously, dude, I thought you were going out to kill you some goddamn fish. That was like 8 hours ago, not 8 minutes ago. Best get on it. I heard the little bastards are biting.

By: wendell

wendell — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:49:18 -0800

The "IANAL" was designed to get your goat with the minimum number of keystrokes possible. It worked.

Translated into Lawyerese:
when you profess your vaunted principles in only five letters to "get [the] goat" of people you're arguing with, you're assuming a substantial share of responsibility for any confusion and hostility that ensues.

By: localhuman

localhuman — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:53:55 -0800

hey bruce. I wouldn't be surprised if your computer's processor couldn't handle it, but I've made an electronic christmas card for you.

and, to every one else on mefi- happy holidays!

By: bruce

bruce — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 20:58:35 -0800

item, i wanted to go out fishing again this afternoon but it was raining hard here. i killed a hawg fish four days ago and made a wonderful bisque with some prawns and clams. one bowl left as of an hour ago, i got halfway through it, put it down for a minute to post here, when i looked up again the world's best cat had wiped out the rest of my main course.

wendell's puzzling 8:49 admits of no interpretation other than agreeing with me, so i will not otherwise respond to it.

By: trondant

trondant — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:08:06 -0800

It's a fucking shame some capitalist hasn't figured out how to transmit carbon monoxide over the internet yet.

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:38:17 -0800

I heard the little bastards are biting.

they sure are - hard

By: Item

Item — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 21:55:26 -0800

/breaks into local pet store, dumps bleach into all of the freshwater tanks, decries victory over our gilled inferiors.

By: tkchrist

tkchrist — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 22:36:13 -0800

I like Capitalism because it lets me go to Paris for two weeks every year. YAY CAPITALISM!

But.

I hate Capitalism because it won't let me go to Paris for four weeks every year. BOOOOOO CAPITALISM!

I like broadband because ASCII text porn is not as good as Quicktime porn. YAY BROADBAND!

But.

I don't like broadband because it makes it too easy to accidentally get porn with ugly people in it. BOOOO BROADBAND!

That is all.

Merry Christmas you crazy fuckers.

By: spiderwire

spiderwire — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 22:42:40 -0800

Internet Pro Tip: When fanning a flameout, always remember that it's easiest to catch fish when they're in a barrel. With a gun.

By: Malor

Malor — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 22:57:53 -0800

You know, if this isn't the stupidest, most pointless thread in the entire history of Metafilter, it's gotta be in the top five. The callout was terrible, and it was the high point of the entire discussion.

By: LiveLurker

LiveLurker — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:15:25 -0800

And on that note, Malor. what have you to say to Mr. Den Beste?

By: Item

Item — Sun, 23 Dec 2007 23:16:44 -0800

That he has too many names?

By: spiderwire

spiderwire — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:13:47 -0800

By: gompa

gompa — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 00:22:29 -0800

If, for the purposes of a sort of hyperbolically satirical sci-fi novel, I was going to invent a character who inadvertently proved Benjamin Barber's point about contemporary capitalism being a competition among ridiculously subdivided niches to create an illusion of infinite choice (and hence satisfaction) in the marketplace, thus to hide the blindless of this system to its own structural flaws, I'd probably have gone for the easy gag and had a character with a ridiculously fetishistic limited-edition running shoe collection. A guy who, like, takes intercontinental full-fare flights in order to lay his hands on a particular pair of '86 Pumas in a Size 9, you know?

But that'd scan as false in a way that this scans as so magnificently authentic:

is it enough to plead alternative status goodies (like, well, owning my own home on gorgeous acreage free and clear, or having a better wine collection than anyone here, particularly the italian reds, or having the very best cat in the world)?

These details are all the more telling, to my mind, because they were related in a MeTa thread running roughly twice as long as the "trainwreck" MeFi thread that birthed it. On the eve of Christmas Eve. I'm not sure how these details deepen the irony, and if only this site had a section for discussing the lit-crit quandries arising from its metatextual discussions, I'd pay this involuted spiral forward. So it goes.

Also, yes, I'm well aware that the market for hyperbolically satirical sci-fi novels based on the theories of Benjamin Barber is severely limited, and yet I continue on Vol. 4 of The McJihad Chronicles because someone's got to pay the bill on a smorgasbord of irony this gluttonous.

By: PeterMcDermott

PeterMcDermott — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 02:29:14 -0800

hahahaa seriously? that's what we're doing now? measuring contests?

Not measuring contests. Pissing contents. Mine was once a very fine 2004 Mouton Rothschild -- but now it's just piss.

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 04:39:10 -0800

Mine was once a very fine 2004 Mouton Rothschild -- but now it's just piss.

you should drink budweiser and save yourself a step

By: fourcheesemac

fourcheesemac — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 05:45:29 -0800

There is no such thing as "gender deconstruction theory." Word salad.

By: fourcheesemac

fourcheesemac — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 05:46:40 -0800

A 2004 Mouton would be wasted by drinking it now. Perhaps you mean Mouton-Cadet? Can't see even the most ardent capitalist drinking 250 dollar bottles of wine years before they're matured.

By: nola

nola — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 06:39:46 -0800

That's funny I can't see drinking a 250 dollar bottle of anything.

By: ROU_Xenophobe

ROU_Xenophobe — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 07:08:31 -0800

Medicine?

By: scalefree

scalefree — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 07:09:26 -0800

I just looked at the title to this thread & realized it was eponysterical. Well done, Steven.

I suggest the creation of a new rule for MetaFilter, or at least an ethical guideline. If you have a strong opinion on one side of an issue you should bar yourself from callouts against posts that support the other side of the issue, in the interest of not being seen as a ~~douchebag~~ concern troll. We could name it the SCDB rule or if Steven objects you can name it after me since I came up with it.

Seriously, this was a staggeringly bad callout.

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 07:15:00 -0800

In general, I would like to call out threads I disagree with politically, as they are likely to lead to comments I find foolish.

By: nola

nola — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 08:37:31 -0800

Medicine?

Ok you got me I do enjoy a nice glass of medicine. Some days I just want to relax, listen to my favorite Pepper Adams 8track, draw a bath with some Evaline bath beads and just soak. On days like that I'll crack open a 250 dollar bottle of SEREDYN and just let it happen.

By: Meatbomb

Meatbomb — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:15:44 -0800

You know what would be a terrible name for a restaurant that was part-diner, part-cafeteria?

Beloved Martyr St. Jacques' Weeping Chancre Food Trough

long, hard to remember
creepy religious overtones
icky hygiene turn-off
"Food Trough" has connotations of bulk production without attention to quality

By: meehawl

meehawl — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:19:14 -0800

bruce: we need to install socialism and expropriate private property unconstitutionally

Property is theft. Who stole your fucking capital letters?

By: Meatbomb

Meatbomb — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 11:25:56 -0800

Beloved Martyr St. Jacques' Celebrity Weeping Chancre Food Trough

Now that maybe has something going for it. I am looking for investors!

By: ericb

ericb — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:12:08 -0800

having a better wine collection than anyone here

Shouldn't that be: "...having a better whine collection than anyone here?"

By: Neiltupper

Neiltupper — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 12:56:50 -0800

Property is theft. Who stole your fucking capital letters?

One of the ironies of the internets. IF BRUCE"S POSTS HAD BEEN WRITTEN WITH CAPS LOCK ON HE WOULD HAVE BEEN IGNORED AS A SHOUTING NOOBIE WHO DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO KEYBOARD. And yet this lower case affectation of his and others is acceptable to many, even though the conscious effort that must be made to avoid capitalizing the initial letter,the first person pronoun, proper nouns and names, also reveals such writers to be (whispering?) noobies who don't know how to keyboard.

By: Abiezer

Abiezer — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 13:00:44 -0800

Deck the site with threads of folly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.
'Tis the season to be trolly,
Fa la la la la, la la la la.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 13:14:46 -0800

"Property is theft. Who stole your fucking capital letters?"

Zing!

Bruce, you have fallen-off in your lulzitude. Please tell us more about your collections of things and your lawyerly principles.

By: Justinian

Justinian — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 13:22:07 -0800

Merry Christmas to all of you, child labor loving capitalist pig-dogs and pyramid-of-skulls creating pinko commies both.

By: pompomtom

pompomtom — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 13:54:25 -0800

Your favourite ideology sucks.
(and while I'm here: bollocks to christmas).

By: cortex

cortex — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:14:25 -0800

No, bollocks for Christmas.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:26:47 -0800

IF BRUCE"S POSTS HAD BEEN WRITTEN WITH CAPS LOCK ON HE WOULD HAVE BEEN IGNORED AS A SHOUTING NOOBIE WHO DOESN'T KNOW HOW TO KEYBOARD.

And your use of a double quote in place of an apostrophy indicates you wrote that entire sentance holding down the shift-key, rather then using caps lock. Impressive.

By: Kirth Gerson

Kirth Gerson — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:36:51 -0800

Sorry, but I refuse to believe that bruce has a better whine collection than anyone here.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 14:42:24 -0800

But whyyyyyyy Kirth?

By: Hat Maui

Hat Maui — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:51:20 -0800

And your use of a double quote in place of an apostrophy indicates you wrote that entire sentance [sic]

also impressive.

By: Neiltupper

Neiltupper — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 15:59:41 -0800

And your use of a double quote in place of an apostrophy indicates you wrote that entire sentance holding down the shift-key, rather then using caps lock. Impressive.

Nice pickup delmoi. You're quite correct. I disabled my caps lock for the benefit of my son, who has not yet learned to keyboard properly, and as a result sometimes typed in a whole line in caps before he looks up from the keyboard to find he had left caps lock on.

Who knows, perhaps you disabled MeFi's spell checker in an attempt to have your child learn to spell such words as "apostrophe" and "sentence". Impressive.

By: Abiezer

Abiezer — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 16:10:44 -0800

We're seeing the atrophy of the apostrophy!

By: Steven C. Den Beste

Steven C. Den Beste — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 16:31:56 -0800

...or the atrophe of the apostrophe...

By: orthogonality

orthogonality — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 17:55:13 -0800

Hmm, Steven, that thread doesn't seemed to have trainwrecked after all. Like your prediction that the French might threaten to nuke us over Iraq, your guess didn't quite pan out, but (like the putative French nuclear threat) it must have been a good guess at the time.

That thread was like a alligator, and before it attacked, you wanted to be sure to preemptively drain its swamp, making us all safer from trainwrecks and alligators.

By: delmoi

delmoi — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 19:22:16 -0800

Who knows, perhaps you disabled MeFi's spell checker in an attempt to have your child learn to spell such words as "apostrophe" and "sentence". Impressive.

Actually, I think what happened is that I accidentally added those words to firefox's built in spechecker. I actually thought 'sentence' seemed to be spelled wrong, but since it wasn't highlighted I left it in. At least this post motivated me to figure out remove things from firefox's built in dictionary.

Also, I didn't intend my comment to be insulting at all; I actually did think it was impressive that you typed the whole thing with the shift key.

Metafilter itself does not have a built in spell checker that I'm aware of.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:02:54 -0800

Is it too late to pick up the "I'm eight minutes from ______" meme? Cause I'm about eight minutes from some of the very best ramen in the city of Tokyo. But if I'm too late, I won't mention it.

By: bruce

bruce — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:05:48 -0800

well klang, why don't we start with the constitution as bedrock principles. now you can tell us why you're pointing a gun at the camera in your profile pic. are you compensating for something?

By: jonmc

jonmc — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:25:15 -0800

it's camera season, bruce.

By: Abiezer

Abiezer — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:25:37 -0800

I'm eight minutes from heading out to Christmas lunch at a Syrian place in downtown Beijing in the company of a dear friend.

By: orelius

orelius — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:38:50 -0800

I would have never expected that one small post is going to generate all that commotion. That is all.
/goes back to the blue

By: Neiltupper

Neiltupper — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:42:30 -0800

Metafilter itself does not have a built in spell checker that I'm aware of.

Damn, you're right again!. It's firefox that's doing all that behind-the-scenes work. My apologies.

By: tkolar

tkolar — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:51:57 -0800

I'm eight minutes from Xmas EST.

By: tkolar

tkolar — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 20:53:34 -0800

Dammit, so close...

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 21:03:22 -0800

"well klang, why don't we start with the constitution as bedrock principles."

I always find it interesting when someone declares an arbitrary point as "bedrock," and venerates principles without any reasoning for those principles.

You can say "constitution" "constitution" "constitution" like a myna, but just "constitution" means fuckall for principles—anything enumerated therein can be put more succinctly, without compromise, elsewhere.

As for the gun, well, it's a .22, and you can make whatever obvious Freudian reply you choose (I doubt anyone could think less of your ability to riposte, so don't hold back), but I'd think that I'd at least compensate with a .45 or so.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 21:03:59 -0800

And Merry Xmas from Michigan!

By: bruce

bruce — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 21:15:17 -0800

it's not so much the gun, dude, it's that you're pointing it at the camera, and you chose this image to upload to all, to tell us who you were. you feel a little threatened, obviously, like you couldn't quite pass as a man unarmed. it's part of your identity, little klang if you will.

By: CitrusFreak12

CitrusFreak12 — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 21:58:03 -0800

I'm compensating for my inability to kill animals with my bare hands, personally.

By: CitrusFreak12

CitrusFreak12 — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 22:05:35 -0800

you feel a little threatened, obviously, like you couldn't quite pass as a man unarmed. it's part of your identity

Well, note the use of space and absence of color in your userpic to depict the futility of man, a blue void, illustrating eternal sadness, our lack of significance in the universe, and...

Oh, wait. You don't have a userpic. Darn.

Merry Christmas!

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 22:28:57 -0800

Hey, is this where the Biggest Asshole contest is?

Wait, never mind. I see this is the Professional class event, not Beer League. I'll go try the local rec centre instead.

Merry Christmas, y'all. What a fine thread you've written!

By: BitterOldPunk

BitterOldPunk — Mon, 24 Dec 2007 22:30:24 -0800

The only thing sadder than this thread is that I am up reading it.

Happy holidays, everybody!

Peppermint schnapps, meet hot chocolate. I think y'all will get along juuuuust fine.

By: cortex

cortex — Tue, 25 Dec 2007 01:21:00 -0800

you feel a little threatened, obviously, like you couldn't quite pass as a man unarmed.

This is made of fail. Go to bed.

By: Artw

Artw — Tue, 25 Dec 2007 08:33:24 -0800

MERRY CHRISTMAS ASSHOLES!

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Tue, 25 Dec 2007 09:42:40 -0800

Seasoned Greetings, jerkwad!

By: cortex

cortex — Tue, 25 Dec 2007 09:46:59 -0800

Happy Holidays, you festering nutsacks!

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:35:14 -0800

I hope you fuckers have a grand old time today!

By: tkolar

tkolar — Tue, 25 Dec 2007 12:39:49 -0800

I thought the whole point of this holiday was that no fucking was involved?

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Tue, 25 Dec 2007 13:44:59 -0800

[you know, it's xmas. save cross-site griefing and cache digging/needling for email or another time, it's distasteful]

By: tkolar

tkolar — Tue, 25 Dec 2007 14:15:29 -0800

Uh oh, she pulled out the brackets and stopped using capitals. Time to put this thread to bed, boys.

By: spiderwire

spiderwire — Tue, 25 Dec 2007 15:33:30 -0800

save cross-site griefing and cache digging/needling

no needling? but i was embroidering you guys little hats with your usernames on them :(

By: wendell

wendell — Tue, 25 Dec 2007 16:22:37 -0800

1) acquire domain needl.com
2) make into digg.com clone
3) ???
5) annoy jessamyn

By: jtron

jtron — Tue, 25 Dec 2007 20:51:48 -0800

Eight minutes to midnight
The hands that threaten doom
Eight minutes to midnight
To kill the unborn in the womb!
[/ironmaiden]

By: fleacircus

fleacircus — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 09:56:33 -0800



   thisisnotadrill

thisisnotadrillthis

isnotadrillthisisnotadrill***THIS IS NOT A DRILL***

  thisisnotadrill

      thisis

      notadr

      illthi

      sisnot

    adrillthis

    isnotadrill

FTFY.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 12:48:21 -0800

" thisisnotadrill"

DUGGADUGGADUGGA.

By: spiderwire

spiderwire — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 13:54:59 -0800

That's a pipe, you morons.

By: wendell

wendell — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:18:15 -0800

I thought it was a series of tubes.

By: spiderwire

spiderwire — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 16:29:30 -0800

I thought it was a series of tubes.

Philistine.

By: spiderwire

spiderwire — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 17:17:36 -0800

Also, I'm writing a letter to René Magritte's estate encouraging them to unfile a copyright noninfringement suit against you plagiarists.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:05:22 -0800

Ceci n’est pas une copyright infringement suit.

By: spiderwire

spiderwire — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:08:04 -0800

No no, this is just my regular suit.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 18:10:11 -0800

Well, it looks real good on you, mate. Love that 70's look, too, you know, with the infringement on the sleeves.

By: cortex

cortex — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:10:53 -0800

the meme that never dies

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 19:35:13 -0800

Hey, REFI! Dag, these spinoff sites, is there no end to them? Cool!

By: fleacircus

fleacircus — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 20:16:30 -0800

Memespotting is such old hat.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 20:22:13 -0800

Ceci n'est pas une old h---

Nevermind.

By: wendell

wendell — Wed, 26 Dec 2007 21:42:57 -0800

ReFiBlog is interesting; glad I finally caught up to it, although I had to leave a comment about some gaps in the story of posts 701-800. (The beginning of the Wendell Era).