Should we FPP the Obama speech?

March 18, 2008 11:39 AM

Should we FPP the Obama speech? Some debate here. On the one hand it seems like it would be doomed to deletion as we have two open Obama related threads. On the other hand it's a really big deal, and (IMHO) rises above NewsFilter into Best Of The Web because it's such an incredibly good speech. Also those other threads are way below the fold. Thoughts?
posted by Artw to etiquette/policy at 11:39 AM (419 comments total)

There are at least two discussions in open threads about this, I don't think it needs an FPP.
posted by OmieWise at 11:42 AM on March 18

But its Obamaaaa!
posted by ND¢ at 11:43 AM on March 18 [4 favorites]

Oh what the hell, let's just change the name of this site to "ObamaFilter" and call it a day.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:43 AM on March 18 [2 favorites]

There's a presidential campaign going on. People want to talk about it.
posted by jeblis at 11:46 AM on March 18 [2 favorites]

They could do that in the open threads.
posted by drezdn at 11:47 AM on March 18

But its Obamaaaa!

Well, yeah, I get your point. But it's not just some random ObamaFilter story, it's potentially history in the making. I'd go as far as to say that If he wins the candidacy and goes on to win the presidency this speech will be the moment that he won it, so it;s kind of a big deal.
posted by Artw at 11:48 AM on March 18 [1 favorite]

I'm inclined to say leave it to the open threads for now; if something does develop from the speech, okay, but posting it right now would really just be cracking open a thread to talk about what people think might happen in the future, and with open recent threads that seems a little overkill.
posted by cortex at 11:51 AM on March 18 [1 favorite]

But its Obamaaaaa!
posted by ND¢ at 11:52 AM on March 18 [3 favorites]

potentially history in the making....kind of a big deal

So what? This isn't a play by play politics blog.

If he wins the candidacy and goes on to win the presidency this speech will be the moment that he won it

And if he doesn't, it wasn't. But that is also not really relevant to this discussion.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:52 AM on March 18 [1 favorite]

It was a speech of historical import that deserves its own FPP. My own Obama/Clinton post got deleted and resurrected yesterday, and I thank the diligence of cortex and jessamyn for responding to my complaint over the deletion. But I wish I didn't feel that this site is nearly politicophobic at times.

Yes, I know there are a gazillion other sites to talk about politics. But there's a hunger here for intelligent discussion of the issues, and the community does not seem as flameriffic as back in the golden age of... well, X and Y. It's possible to stay current without becoming RedState/DailyKos.
posted by digaman at 11:53 AM on March 18 [6 favorites]

Well, presumably anyone who is interested in the Obama campaign is already following the other two threads. If they're not interested, they also won't be interested in watching a 30 minute youtube video, no matter how earth shattering and significant.
posted by Dave Faris at 11:53 AM on March 18

But it's not just some random ObamaFilter story, it's potentially history in the making

It's a shame a dozen other obamafilter posts were made in the past week already. I agree, if it's major, go ahead and post it, but unfortunately we've had way too many posts about the subject lately (and we seem to be deleting a bunch as well) so I'd say skip it, even though it could be a turning point.

Breaking news and election news make for pretty ho-hum posts here, how about waiting a week, collecting all the play-by-play and commentary and make a post about it when it truly becomes a turning point? Not everything on mefi has to be real-time.
posted by mathowie at 11:53 AM on March 18 [1 favorite]

But I wish I didn't feel that this site is nearly politicophobic at times.

We've had two presidential elections in the previous years of metafilter and the consensus was that by September, everyone was sick of the Nader/Kerry/Bushfilter posts. The audience is a lot more international now as well, and though who becomes the president of the US does have some effect on someone in the UK or Oz or Egypt, it's less important to a growing number of active users.

But there's a hunger here for intelligent discussion of the issues

I'm not sure if I've seen intelligent discussion of politics here lately.
posted by mathowie at 11:56 AM on March 18 [7 favorites]

Man, I'm sorta starting to feel abashed about mocking the Ron Paulification of Digg and reddit.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:56 AM on March 18 [3 favorites]

Matt, what would intelligent discussion of politics on a site like this look like to you? And: Do you think Europeans are all ho-hum about this US election? I've spoken to three European friends in the last week -- one of whom was in Nepal, fergawdsakes -- and all they wanted to talk about was Clinton/Obama/McCain. And I don't hang out with politico-junkies.
posted by digaman at 12:01 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Alvy, I went to register a not-totally-likely domain name today only to find it uselessly camped by some dude whose main site is just hisname.com featuring a big drawing of Ron Paul.

The Paulites continue to vex me at every turn.
posted by cortex at 12:02 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

I think someone should make a post to MeTa, so we can talk about it here.
posted by psmealey at 12:02 PM on March 18

what would intelligent discussion of politics on a site like this look like to you?

I'll bet it would include a lot of threats to throw people down the stairs or beat them up with baseball bats.
posted by Dave Faris at 12:02 PM on March 18

For more politics posts, see Devoter. Unfortunately it doesn't seem to have achieved the critical mass (yet) needed for discussion.

Looks like PoliticsFilter is on hold.
posted by russilwvong at 12:03 PM on March 18

Wait till tomorrow. Obama's coming to my city-which is the home of Ft Bragg-and he might do something newsworthy.

Or not, in which case we can go for another round of bonsai kittens or something.
posted by konolia at 12:06 PM on March 18

I used to hate the whole Obama thing, and now, due to that speech, I really like that guy. Fuck.

(Sorry, this comment isn't very meta.)
posted by 1 at 12:08 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

One data point from a newbie: After I read the speech, I came to MeFi hoping to read a thread about it. I was surprised and disappointed that there wasn't one. It didn't occur to me to look for week-old Obama-related FPPs that might now have discussions on the speech.
posted by Perplexity at 12:08 PM on March 18 [7 favorites]

Dave Faris: For pete's sake take a nap already, you miserable grouser.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 12:11 PM on March 18

Put it on the blue so we can have a post about that speech in the gray, the green and the blue.
posted by caddis at 12:11 PM on March 18

It is a great speech, and everyone should watch it.
posted by OmieWise at 12:14 PM on March 18

the gray, the green and the blue

Coincidentally the colors of the flag of Obamastan, where every tongue-tied schmuck is a MLK Jr. Level Orator and nobody wants for anything ever, except strife.


I'm down with O, I really am, but ease back, it's a feckin' marathon not a sprint.
posted by Divine_Wino at 12:17 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

So what you're saying is a political candidate made an impassioned speech, and it either may be a turning point in his candidacy or it may not be. And you think the speech is Best of the Web, but since it didn't happen on the web it would be more like NewsFilter That You Think Is Awesome.
posted by Plutor at 12:18 PM on March 18 [4 favorites]

It was a moving, powerful speech, one of the most important I've seen in my lifetime of following American electoral politics. I already support the man, but this really rose above the campaign and will be remembered and quoted and taught whether or not he wins or loses the election. I am sure of it. It condenses so much into 30 minutes that it's like a college course in progressive politics. It was everything I admire about Barack Obama in a nutshell. And pretty much everything I think myself about "race" in American life.

It was also the first time I've heard a specific mention of Native Americans in non-condescending terms from the mouth of a major candidate in a major national context this cycle, or really ever. That alone moved me.

And THAT is how Kerry needed to respond to the Swiftboating bullshit. Too bad he didn't believe Americans might be smart enough to hear the truth. Makes me feel really good about Obama's general election campaign too, if it comes to that.

But I don't think it needs to be an FPP here. We can discuss it in this thread, I suppose. Or not, since it is being discussed everywhere else in the blogosphere right now.

Barack Obama is too smart, too decent, too educated to be the president of the US. It gets clearer every day.
posted by fourcheesemac at 12:21 PM on March 18 [19 favorites]

Plutor - It's not like we don't call other things that reach us via YouTube Best Of The Web. Most of them a hell of a lot less interesting than this.
posted by Artw at 12:21 PM on March 18

I'm pretty sure this is what the Rapture will be like.
posted by Dave Faris at 12:23 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Yes. Let's all FPP it.
posted by mattbucher at 12:24 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

And THAT is how Kerry needed to respond to the Swiftboating bullshit. Too bad he didn't believe Americans might be smart enough to hear the truth.

i.e. "too bad he was an idiot"
posted by 1 at 12:28 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Also, it's a pretty good speech.
posted by Divine_Wino at 12:29 PM on March 18

Unbelievably, Charles Murray (of *Bell Curve* fame) is quoted as saying:

I read the various posts here on "The Corner," mostly pretty ho-hum or critical about Obama's speech. Then I figured I'd better read the text (I tried to find a video of it, but couldn't). I've just finished. Has any other major American politician ever made a speech on race that comes even close to this one? As far as I'm concerned, it is just plain flat out brilliant—rhetorically, but also in capturing a lot of nuance about race in America. It is so far above the standard we're used to from our pols.

Wow.
posted by fourcheesemac at 12:29 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]

What we really need is a MeTa about this MeTa. That'll learn them.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 12:30 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Most of them a hell of a lot less interesting than this.

I'll take a dozen substantially less interesting posts covering a whole spectrum of topics over a dozen totally fucking fantastic Obama posts any ding-dong day of the week.
posted by [NOT HERMITOSIS-IST] at 12:31 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

1, I agree it. Kerry really disappointed me with that, and I voted for him very reluctantly as a result.

Won't get fooled again, though. HRC will never, ever have my vote. Even for senate.
posted by fourcheesemac at 12:31 PM on March 18

a really big deal, and (IMHO) rises above NewsFilter into Best Of The Web because it's such an incredibly good speech.

it's potentially history in the making

a speech of historical import

will be remembered and quoted and taught whether or not he wins or loses the election.

one of the most important I've seen in my lifetime

So that's decided. The speech should be president.
posted by cillit bang at 12:33 PM on March 18 [7 favorites]

Ah, two conversations at once. Well, that's confusing.
posted by lunit at 12:35 PM on March 18

Would someone please link to what we're talking about linking?

KTHXBI
posted by SlyBevel at 12:37 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

speech
posted by Dave Faris at 12:39 PM on March 18

the speech
posted by lunit at 12:39 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

I'll take a dozen substantially less interesting posts covering a whole spectrum of topics over a dozen totally fucking fantastic Obama posts any ding-dong day of the week.

This kind of thinking is what has dominated the FPP politics of the past. We could keep posting videos of quadraped robots and various MegaMan bosses.

We could do that.

Or, at this moment, in this moment in this website's history, we can come together and say, 'Not this time.' Mefites of all races and religions could post the best Obama-related links for everyone to see. It won't happen overnight, but I beleive ObamaFilter can become reality.
posted by burnmp3s at 12:40 PM on March 18 [13 favorites]

No, but the man who made it --- and he wrote it himself, they're saying, every word -- damn well should be president.

Anyone who has worked in the trenches of American race relations in any serious way with any level of hope for the future cried during that speech. I guarantee it.

I just keep thinking, when was the last time any candidate for president got up in front of the cameras and just told the straight truth, and kept telling it for half an hour? I'm trying to imagine myself as a Clinton supporter or a McCain supporter, and not coming away shaken by Obama's eloquence on this one.

We're so fucking jaded we wouldn't know real leadership if it came down from the skies in a flying saucer. But that was it. This is someone who can change the narrative with his words. We haven't had that since JFK, RFK, and MLK.

BHO for the win.
posted by fourcheesemac at 12:40 PM on March 18 [28 favorites]

If someday I become president, you're going to be really glad you favorited this comment.
posted by turaho at 12:40 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]

Thanks Faris and lunit.
posted by SlyBevel at 12:43 PM on March 18

"and he wrote it himself, they're saying, every word"

fourcheesemac - you gotta source for that? (cause that's awesome.)
posted by lunit at 12:43 PM on March 18

I'd go as far as to say that If he wins the candidacy and goes on to win the presidency this speech will be the moment that he won it

When he wins, you can post it. It would be far more interesting to discuss looking back on it instead of when it's on the CNN, MSNBC, FoxNews (Obama Won't 'Disown' Pastor), digg, and reddit front pages.

Or, instead of fretting about whether you should post it, figure out how to make a decent post out of it. Should you post only the YouTube video and transcript? No. Should you find context (not a bunch of wikipedia links), reaction, and whatever else it would take to make an interesting post about it? Sure.
posted by Gary at 12:47 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

I just keep thinking, when was the last time any candidate for president got up in front of the cameras and just told the straight truth, and kept telling it for half an hour?

And quoted William Faulkner while he was at it.

It sort of breaks my (jaded, haven't-been-a-Democrat-since-the-'90s-out-of-disgust-with-the-Clintons) heart. He is too smart to be president. The fuckers who really run the place will never allow it.
posted by scody at 12:48 PM on March 18

Has anybody got a link to a full vid of this they could mefimail me? I thought there were links and transcripts in this AskMe but they seem to be gone from the question and answers. I could be mixing this up with another question however so a link to that askme would be great too.
posted by By The Grace of God at 12:48 PM on March 18

The AskMe question with links to the video and transcript: Where can I watch the Barack Obama speech from this morning online in its entirety?
posted by ericb at 12:55 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

MSNBC has the video of the full speech here.
posted by EarBucket at 12:56 PM on March 18

"It is a great speech, and everyone should watch it."

Fascist.
posted by Eideteker at 12:57 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

We shouldn't FPP it, we should continue to soft-post this and every other Obama story to the gray. Awesome!
posted by 0xFCAF at 1:00 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

THere's an open thread on Obama & race, from less than a week ago. I don't see why that isn't the place for further discussion, for anyone who is interested in exploring the topic further. But the conversation there has kind of died down - because everyone's concerned about whether it can be posted to the front page! That kind of makes it feel like the interest is more in sensationalism than content...
posted by mdn at 1:12 PM on March 18

Obama is great at saying utterly nothing and having people just eat that shit up.

So, yes, someone should FPP it. And I'm amazed a question about the speech isn't on the green already. Metafilter is showing an amazing about of restraint today.
posted by Stynxno at 1:13 PM on March 18

It is a great speech, and everyone should watch it.

And under President For Life Obama, everyone will watch it. In dimly lit concrete auditoriums, dressed in standard-issue government gray jump suits. Until someone comes running down the aisle and hurls a sledgehammer at the screen, shattering the image into a million pieces. And that person will be Hillary Rodham Clinton. In a pantsuit. So there.
posted by pardonyou? at 1:15 PM on March 18 [5 favorites]

Would it be possible for 24 hours to elapse before we started to declare the (ok, admittedly rather good) speech "historic"? And less snarkily, the old guideline that MeFi is about the links seems like a good one to apply here. FPP linking the video transcript from MSNBC? Not so good. FPP with a lot of background detail on (let's say) Obama's take on race relations, or great political speeches, or excellent and unusual analysis by a noted public figure? Better.
posted by whir at 1:18 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Obama is great at saying utterly nothing

This is rich, coming from the guy whose most carefully crafted FPPs involve Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, and Paris Hilton.
posted by scody at 1:20 PM on March 18 [26 favorites]

Dave Faris typed "I'm pretty sure this is what the Rapture will be like."

Hey, can we have a general post just to see who's still here and who's not? I realize that something like that would usually go on the gray, but this seems like it might be an extenuating circumstance.

Also, MetaFilter is legally required to use OpenID now, right? When will that be starting?
posted by roll truck roll at 1:23 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

I'm not sure if I've seen intelligent discussion of politics here lately.

I think that sometimes, and then I read other sites.

Metafilter is warm. Metafilter is cozy. Metafilter is not those horrible, horrible places.
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:23 PM on March 18 [5 favorites]

Obama is great at saying utterly nothing and...

But beware of the dark side. Anger...fear... disaffection... cynicism.... aggression. The dark side of the Force are they. Easily they flow, quick to join you in a community blog snarkfest. If once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny, consume you it will.
posted by psmealey at 1:24 PM on March 18

*hugs everyone*
posted by sciurus at 1:24 PM on March 18

Hey, can we have a general post just to see who's still here and who's not?

I think I'd be more embarassed to be Raptured.

"Aww, I coulda sworn I didn't believe in this shit anymore!"
posted by Pope Guilty at 1:25 PM on March 18

No, it doesn't neeed to be its own FPP. We need to realize how short the news cycles are. What seems REALLY IMPORTANT! today will likely not be important a week or month from now. We should resist the urge to over-esteem the present because the stories often changes. And so it will be with this speech, as well. It's being discussed. That's good enough.

It is a great speech, and everyone should watch it.
posted by OmieWise at 2:14 PM on March 18

I would disagree. Everyone should read it.

The speech is a marvelous piece of rhetoric. It's a masterful distillation of a complex issue that really shows an adeptness of looking at an issue from all sides. It appears to be an earnest and thoughtful attempt to move beyond the partisan us v. them dichotomy, while also noting why we are who we are and why they are who they are. It is simply a masterful speech.

Unfortunately, it was one of Obama's poorest deliveries that I can recall. On paper, it is amazing. His delivery, not so much. And that's a shame because he is capable of making incredible speeches.

So I think everyone should read it. And it would be absolutely wonderful if Metafilter--and the country--could embrace the core message of the speech which is that we need to not hate the Other or castigate or drive away those who are different; we need to find a way to understand each other.

It is a masterful piece of rhetoric. And if Obama could deliver on it and move beyond mere rhetoric, then lucky us as he will be great. But, for now, the rhetoric is a start.
posted by dios at 1:27 PM on March 18 [17 favorites]

Obama is great at saying utterly nothing

This is rich, coming from the guy whose most carefully crafted FPPs involve Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, and Paris Hilton.

Your favorite cult icon sucks.
posted by Dave Faris at 1:29 PM on March 18

I agree with dios. I can't watch long youtube videos so clicked over to the transcript.. what a fierce, elegant, unrepentant piece of awesome.
posted by By The Grace of God at 1:29 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Unfortunately, it was one of Obama's poorest deliveries that I can recall.

I read it this morning; I'm watching it now. I can't really disagree. His head is almost rhythmically pingponging from the left teleprompter to the right. He needed a center teleprompter, or at least to look around the room a bit more. It's actually a relief when he looks down at the podium to read the passage from his book.

But the speech is aces, and the delivery is by far the least important aspect.
posted by pardonyou? at 1:34 PM on March 18

Great speech, no doubt. I am working strictly from the text, mind you, and I agree with dios and BTGOG. It's pragmatic and aspirational at the same time, and it's not mealy-mouthed PC bullshit and code words that you would expect from a presidential candidate.
posted by Mister_A at 1:35 PM on March 18

MeFi is about the links.

It is a great speech, mostly because it points out how "race" is being used to divide and conquer the working/middle classes of America.

At the root of some of what he says are some statements that are very, uh, revolutionary. He's basically saying, like, America should be run by Americans, and we've been getting the run-around for a while now...

Guy'll never win. Small plane accident or something. And it'll break my fucking heart.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:35 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Oh, and Digby's got a good post about it. Which is where I go for this kind of thing.
posted by From Bklyn at 1:36 PM on March 18

Obama is great at saying utterly nothing

This is rich, coming from the guy whose most carefully crafted FPPs involve Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, and Paris Hilton.

Is there a connection? Feel free to explain what you mean, scody. Otherwise, that kind of comment is just modern politics at it's best. You can say something that makes no sense at all, and as long as you're "passionate" and playing to the audience, you win.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 1:37 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

I agree that the delivery isn't his best, and I actually don't care for the ending at all, but I do think that it's more powerful watched than read. There's a humanizing element to seeing it delivered that is absent for me in the transcript.
posted by OmieWise at 1:39 PM on March 18

Be honest; Barrack Obama?
a) Great President
b) The Greatest President
c) All of the Above
posted by blue_beetle at 1:41 PM on March 18

MeFi is about the links.

But it's interesting that most of the stuff sidebarred is comments.
posted by mattbucher at 1:44 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

I think the problem the moderators are having with ElectionFilter posts is that they aren't discussions of politics, like mathowie said. They are discussions of campaign strategy, hillary hating, tactics and occasionally about race. But I can't think of a thread that was about a political issue on it's own.

It's as if people assume a standard stance in these regardless of how the discussion evolved in a previous thread - they simply reassert their original positions each time. The threads are cross-talk, not discussion.
posted by Pastabagel at 1:55 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

Obama is great at saying utterly nothing

This is rich, coming from the guy whose most carefully crafted FPPs involve Britney Spears, Lindsay Lohan, and Paris Hilton.

Now that you mention it, Obama's speech does remind me of those three girls. The substance of the speech matches up perfectly with Paris's taste in men, the nuance and thought is on par with anything Britney would find at her local gas station and Obama's rhetoric wouldn't even make the grade for Lindsay's next album.

But, you know what? Like those three pop culture queens, Obama lives on hype. So I guess they're all pretty much related.
posted by Stynxno at 1:56 PM on March 18

it's not just some random ObamaFilter story, it's potentially history in the making. I'd go as far as to say that If he wins the candidacy and goes on to win the presidency this speech will be the moment that he won it

You know, I like Obama and if I weren't an anarchist I'd probably vote for him, and it was a damn good speech, but "history in the making"?

Obamaaaa!
posted by languagehat at 1:57 PM on March 18

Newsweek analysis: One for the History Books.
posted by ericb at 1:58 PM on March 18

"and he wrote it himself, they're saying, every word" ... fourcheesemac - you gotta source for that? (cause that's awesome.)

"Obama dictated a first draft to his young speechwriter Jon Favreau on Saturday, then reworked the speech until 3 a.m. Monday. He went at it anew on Tuesday, tweaking away until 2 a.m. Did Obama's political aides try to warn him off the idea? 'It wasn't even a discussion,' says [Obama's senior strategist David] Axelrod. 'He was going to do it. I know this sounds perhaps corny, but he actually believes in the fairness and good sense of the American people, and the importance of this issue. His candidacy is predicated on the fact that we can talk to each other in an honest and forthright way on this and other issues.'"*

posted by ericb at 2:00 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

And, before anyone else asks, not it's not that Jon Favreau.
posted by scrump at 2:07 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]

Well, if *Newsweek* said it...
posted by tkolar at 2:08 PM on March 18

Damn... I was totally set up for the "he's so money and he doesn't even know it" line.

Thanks, scrump. Thanks a lot.
posted by psmealey at 2:08 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Well, if *Newsweek* said it...

...such doesn't necessarily mean the speech is historic to others.
posted by ericb at 2:12 PM on March 18

Should we FPP the Obama speech?

BTW, this sort of question is exactly the bullshit that results from tolerating any politics at all on Metafilter. A political speech not even remotely connected to the internet is so far away from Metafilter's core mission that it's ridiculous to even think it belongs as an FPP.

As long as we allow the constant stream of politics filter to pollute the front page, people will continue to confuse Metafilter with some sort of political blog.
posted by tkolar at 2:12 PM on March 18 [5 favorites]

Is there a connection? Feel free to explain what you mean, scody.

I know I'm not scody, but I feel like the connection is rather obvious. A really well written speech making a lot of cogent and intelligent points about the nature of race in this country being essentially called vacuous by a mefite who makes fpps about how "thin is in" fashion will make buying jeans easier for him is a bit rich. I'm sure stynxno is a great guy. please no death threats. but it's a pretty funny comment.
posted by shmegegge at 2:14 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Her point was that those pop stars are essentially hollow templates with social meaning thrust upon themand that because he's so in their thrall, he's unable to recognize actual meaning when it comes around.

Or perhaps if he's in their thrall, he's the best one to recognize bullshit? Whatever, her comment was lameness of the "I'm going to score cheap favorites by vaguely calling out shit people have been bitching about since day one" variety. At least make sure there's some substance behind the snark.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 2:17 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Now that you mention it, Obama's speech does remind me of those three girls. The substance of the speech matches up perfectly with Paris's taste in men, the nuance and thought is on par with anything Britney would find at her local gas station and Obama's rhetoric wouldn't even make the grade for Lindsay's next album.

But, you know what? Like those three pop culture queens, Obama lives on hype. So I guess they're all pretty much related.

Oh, bullshit.

And not even convincing, rhetorical bullshit. Just petty, dismissive bullshit.

The substance matches Paris's taste in men? You're arguing that Paris likes insubstantial men? Why? Because they don't wear fedoras? The snark about Britney doesn't even make any damn sense, and if Lohan could build emotional points like the Ashley anecdote, she'd be noticed by more than death pools.
posted by klangklangston at 2:18 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

Regardless of who made the speech, it's a remarkable entry into ongoing discussions of race relations in the U.S., their history, and the blinkered view that predominantly white news audiences/organs have of African-American racial politics. Much more importantly in the long term, it's an example of a major-party politician speaking (quite well) about the complex connections between economic, racial, religious, generational, and gender-based inequality and conflict. Yes, it's a historic speech: consider the cultural context in which he's speaking, the radical disjunction between his rhetoric and the media landscape in which he's competing for office (and in more specific terms, consider the awesome gap between his vision of progressive politics and coalition-building, and that of his primary-season opponent). The largely implicit critique of the mainstream news media would be an excellent hook for getting MeFites to talk about the speech.

Then again, if this thread is any indication, such a discussion would be a waste of time anyhow.

Carry on.
posted by waxbanks at 2:20 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]

Or perhaps if he's in their thrall, he's the best one to recognize bullshit? Whatever, her comment was lameness of the "I'm going to score cheap favorites by vaguely calling out shit people have been bitching about since day one" variety. At least make sure there's some substance behind the snark.

Perhaps he's the best one to recognize bullshit?

Well, pretty clearly not.

What else you got?
posted by klangklangston at 2:20 PM on March 18

The past dozen comments aside, I just wanted to say that despite all my Obamaaaa!-ing above, I just e-mailed a transcript of that speech to all my friends and family. I don't know if that means I think it belongs on Metafilter, but I do think that it is a speech that people should read because it is the type of political speech that people deserve, but haven't gotten in so long that they have stopped listening.
posted by ND¢ at 2:23 PM on March 18 [2 favorites]

Oh, yeah, and since I shouldn't have phrased it like that, I apologize for the "dick clouding judgment." While I can't speak to his sexual prowess, I meant to imply (and still do willfully) that it's your relationship, not his anatomy, that's making you biased here.
posted by klangklangston at 2:24 PM on March 18

And I'm amazed a question about the speech isn't on the green already. Metafilter is showing an amazing about of restraint today. -- posted by Stynxno at 4:13 PM on March 18

It was posted to the green at 12:29 PM (and above at 3:55 PM) today.
posted by ericb at 2:26 PM on March 18

Master rhetorician delivers masterful piece of rhetoric. News at eleven every hour on the front page.

I voted for Clinton in the Ohio primary because the platforms of the two candidates are nearly perfectly identical and I believe that Clinton will be more effective at turning those ideas into actual laws. Every time Obama mentions his accomplishments in the state senate, I think, "Great, but I don't vote in Illinois, so I can't help you with your Senate or U.S. House run...oh, I see. You're a national candidate." I'll happily vote for Obama should he win the primary. One reason that I haven't been around Metafilter much lately is that Obama hysteria oozing from the seams of the blue makes me uncomfortable. I feel uncomfortable even posting this, to tell the truth, because I don't want to go to war about it. I've never felt that way here before.
posted by Kwine at 2:32 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]

and yes, it's a revolutionary speech. Unity, yes, but unity towards change. Forgiveness and reconciliation, yes, but for the purpose of a dramatic restructuring of American priorities. Pretty darn great.
posted by By The Grace of God at 2:38 PM on March 18

Even that racist Bell Curve guy says that this is a very substantive and meaningful speech. It's beyond shallow to look at the speech and say "Obama is all hype." You have the right to your opinion, but if you've read that speech and can only consider it all "hype," my impression of your ability to discern shit from shinola is deeply skewed.
posted by mattbucher at 2:38 PM on March 18

I just got this in my inbox:

Thanks for sending me the speech, it was wonderful.
Mom
posted by ND¢ at 2:44 PM on March 18 [4 favorites]

Every time Obama mentions his accomplishments in the state senate, I think, "Great, but I don't vote in Illinois, so I can't help you with your Senate or U.S. House run...

"Obama? How can you support an Illinois lawyer with only two years of experience in national office? Oh, it worked out pretty well last time."
posted by ericb at 2:44 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

What speech?
posted by Corduroy at 2:46 PM on March 18

I just got this in my inbox:

Thanks for sending me the speech, it was wonderful.
Mom

That's awesome. I think it'll get enough coverage without an FPP and fapping, but damn, it's almost like something good is bad. Tell all your friends about metafilter and ask metafilter? Wear the t-shirt? Stay logged into the site all the time? Well that's just too much - it can't be good then - It's fluff and doesn't exist in the real world. What has it done? It's just a bunch of talk.

Yeah...we know better, don't we.
posted by cashman at 2:50 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

It sure is a good thing we didn't clutter up the front page with another long winded, opinionated political post.
posted by Dave Faris at 2:51 PM on March 18

"Obama? How can you support an Illinois lawyer with only two years of experience in national office? Oh, it worked out pretty well last time."

Worked out last time? We got war, dude got shot, and we can't have slaves anymore! How'd that work out "well"?
posted by klangklangston at 2:51 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

The substance of the speech matches up perfectly with Paris's taste in men,

no it doesn't.

the nuance and thought is on par with anything Britney would find at her local gas station

no it isn't.

and Obama's rhetoric wouldn't even make the grade for Lindsay's next album.

yes it-... wait, is that a bad thing? Could she even be said to employ rhetoric in her music? I'm not... hmm. ok, let's agree on this one and say it's a good thing.

But, you know what? Like those three pop culture queens, Obama lives on hype.

no he doesn't.

So I guess they're all pretty much related.
posted by Stynxno at 4:56 PM on March 18

Here's hoping perezhilton starts providing you with some better insight into the coming election.
posted by shmegegge at 2:51 PM on March 18

Feel free to explain what you mean, scody.

Others have done a fine job of parsing my (evidently terribly obscure) meaning. I meant to indicate that a finger-wagging comment about substance and the appropriate use of the blue from a guy who A) admits he doesn't get anything out of an intelligent, nuanced speech of the history of class and race in this country and B) is known for making posts about arguably the most insubstantial human beings of our generation... is that ironic? Or just hilarious? I can't tell. I'm too hopped up on all the kool-aid!

Otherwise, that kind of comment is just modern politics at it's best. You can say something that makes no sense at all, and as long as you're "passionate" and playing to the audience, you win.

That's such a facile, simplisitic characterization of the awful state of contemporary politics that it's essentially meaningless. Which is why I'm guessing that this...

Like those three pop culture queens, Obama lives on hype. So I guess they're all pretty much related.

...is what passes for scathing socio-political insight over the dinner table, rather than a statement so jaw-droppingly shallow that TMZ wouldn't run it.
posted by scody at 2:55 PM on March 18 [18 favorites]

The Dream Ticket. The Scream Ticket.
posted by ericb at 2:56 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Oh! Popcorn's ready!
posted by From Bklyn at 3:01 PM on March 18

As a European speaking: it's about fucking time there's a presidential candidate who is eloquent for a change.
posted by DreamerFi at 3:02 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

It's possible to stay current without becoming RedState/DailyKos.

This place is half an inch away from turning into RedState as it is.
posted by Kwantsar at 3:02 PM on March 18

One reason that I haven't been around Metafilter much lately is that Obama hysteria oozing from the seams of the blue makes me uncomfortable. I feel uncomfortable even posting this, to tell the truth, because I don't want to go to war about it. I've never felt that way here before.
posted by Kwine at 4:32 PM on March 18

Sucks doesn't it? Which is all the reason why we should avoid partisan political posts on the Blue. If you make posts that gore the oxen of people, you make the place inhospitable to those whose ox is being gored. It drives them away; leads to insularity. That's not a good thing. We don't need to be driving people away when we are supposed to be a community.
posted by dios at 3:03 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Oh and while we're on the election subject, and since somebody is bound to FPP this, can we get our page assignments, to provide a clean and smooth examination of the 11,000 pages? Or is that going to get nixed as electionfilter.
posted by cashman at 3:07 PM on March 18

11,000 pages with all the good stuff blacked out? Meh, I'll wait for someone on YouTube to read it all and give me a 2 minute summary.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 3:10 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

cashman: "Oh and while we're on the election subject, and since somebody is bound to FPP this, can we get our page assignments, to provide a clean and smooth examination of the 11,000 pages? Or is that going to get nixed as electionfilter."

They really could have worded that headline better. It made me think Clinton was planning to announce that she is a lesbian.
posted by Rhaomi at 3:16 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Agree, dios, on the lack of rhetorical polish in Obama's delivery. Which is why I was caught so off guard when he said "THIS time" and I almost lost it.

I think also that these kinds of speeches are hurt by the way they mic politicians. A little bit of audio from the room—and not just when people clap—would go a long way towards smoothing over the bumps. Colbert's White House Correspondents Dinner speech suffered from this problem. Unless you were listening really closely you would think that he bombed; no laughter from the audience at all. A little room noise and you hear speeches like they're meant to be heard.
posted by wemayfreeze at 3:20 PM on March 18

Holy Christ, that speech was incredible.

I support the total excision of politics from Metafilter. IMO, this speech would be objectively FPP-worthy for reasons purely having to do with its form, were it not an unfortunate casualty of a sound policy decision to depoliticize this place. If we could do things over and allow exactly one FPP up to this point to mention the word 'Obama', it should be this one. Still: no exceptions. It's a presidential campaign speech, so it doesn't go on the blue. It's too bad. I've seen so few powerful speeches in my lifetime (I can think of maybe one or two others) that I've been thinking that cultural aesthetic standards and practices have changed, rendering speech-making a completely dead art. Where have all the orators gone? (Hey look, someone AskMe'd it for me!)

A political speech not even remotely connected to the internet is so far away from Metafilter's core mission that it's ridiculous to even think it belongs as an FPP.

Well... it's on the internet. FPPs obviously don't need to be about the internet in content. If you think that Metafilter's core mission is to present things that are "connected to the internet", what's the connection if not being on the internet? Being uniquely on the internet? That'd preclude all sorts of worthwhile posts. The reason to keep this post off the blue is because it's a presidential campaign speech, not because it isn't sufficiently connected to the internet.
posted by painquale at 3:29 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

(Thanks for posting this in meta so I got around to reading the speech.)
posted by Shutter at 3:29 PM on March 18

I suspect, however, that much of what White working class see is going to be filtered through the media. So a lot depends one how the speech gets spun.

Yeah, so people should spin it. A lot of stuff we see today as historic was spun that way. So let's spin it. Let's print tshirts with salient phrases and distribute the whole thing in well laid out pamphlets, and get 'em out to people in the broadest sweeps of campaign activity, lets cut out the middle man here. I don't trust the media to do this justice.
posted by By The Grace of God at 3:29 PM on March 18 [4 favorites]

There are at least two discussions in open threads about this, I don't think it needs an FPP.

A fair point, and one that's been applied many times. It's still not easy enough to show up and know that there are active Obama threads in there somewhere. Sure, you can hunt and find them. But it needs to be easy enough for everyone to do that often, and it's not. Tough challenge to solve... I don't have a ready answer. Some kind of feature to indicate recent activity by tag would make a good start. "Recent Activity" is okay today but it all keys on threads you have already seen, commented in, favorited, etc. If you weren't there to notice and favorite yesterday evening's Obama thread, Recent Activity won't help you today.

I think the desire to avoid pile-on threads would make any kind of sitewide "hot thread" feature dangerous.

Maybe just a tag cloud of the last 24/36/48 would accomplish the goal?
posted by scarabic at 3:29 PM on March 18

I just keep thinking, when was the last time any candidate for president got up in front of the cameras and just told the straight truth, and kept telling it for half an hour?

You said it, brother. Ever since I voted in my first Presidential election in (god help me) 1980, I have been whinily repeating this mantra: "Just for once, I just want to hear some candidate stand up and tell us the fucking facts and speak the fucking truth about any damn thing at all. I don't even care if (s)he reflects my values or specific positions; I just want somebody not to tell me the samey-samey airbrushed focus-grouped lies."

And Obama just knocked one out of the ever-lovin' park. He not only spoke the fucking truth but he did so fearlessly on a subject that nobody in politics manages to address with any kind of authenticity or depth. The fact that some of were weeping or teary-eyed is a revolting commentary on just how impoverished political speech has become in recent decades -- because every candidate for high office ought to be able to engage in discourse of that caliber. I was planning to vote for Obama as the least bad option because he's obviously intelligent and a decent spokesmodel for the US, but he may have just become the only presidential candidate I've ever been proud to cast a ballot for.
posted by FelliniBlank at 3:37 PM on March 18 [4 favorites]

It's still not easy enough to show up and know that there are active Obama threads in there somewhere. Sure, you can hunt and find them. But it needs to be easy enough for everyone to do that often, and it's not.

It really doesn't need to be that easy to do that at all. This is not your one stop shop for all things Obama. An easier way to identify obama posts and comments is way at the bottom of the list of things this site needs, just below "an easier way to punch me directly in the scrotum."
posted by shmegegge at 3:37 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

an unfortunate casualty of a sound policy decision to depoliticize this place.

The only policy we have is "let's try to make this US election year not suck like the last big US election year sucked here" As someone who has been backtagging a bajillion posts, it's depressing to see how many of them [7000+?] are just busted links to old news stories. Now some of the blame lies in link rot and big news organizations having crappy archiving systems but some of it has to do with the rush to post big newsy topics without reflection, context or some phrasing of "here's why I think this thing I am linking to is great and why others might think so too" It's not necessary, but in political posts it's usually a good idea to respond to the tacit "who gives a shit?" peanut gallery response that any post is likely to get a little of.

The Arthur C Clarke obit was a great example. Our general hard and fast policy is "first post stays" in double posts, but the first one was so ungood, so unfitting, that we broke tradition and removed the earliesr post. I'm sure people will forgive us.

Now we have a thread here in MetaTalk, talking about the speech. And, I have to be honest with you, I read it on my way home from Michigan today and sat there crying in the airport reading it because I am so unhappy with how things are going in the US and so desperate for something good to happen, for everyone. I'm sure many other people feel the same way. We have lost perspective.

That said, "OMG this speech rox!" isn't a great post. There are ways to make a great post including a link to this speech. Starting with an exploratory "I can has obama nows?" isn't really a great way to do it because of COURSE people are going to say the same things they always say in threads like these.

And yet, if someone had made an awesome post about this speech, it would have been fine, probably.
posted by jessamyn at 3:38 PM on March 18 [8 favorites]

(Thanks for posting this in meta so I got around to reading the speech.)

(It honestly wans't my intention to do some kind of stealth FPP by moving the should-we-FPP-it debate to meta, but, um, thanks anyway)
posted by Artw at 3:40 PM on March 18

I'm sitting here crying in my cubicle.

Arthur C. Clarke... dead?

(The speech was a humdinger, too.)
posted by Atom Eyes at 3:45 PM on March 18

painquale wrote...

A political speech not even remotely connected to the internet is so far away from Metafilter's core mission that it's ridiculous to even think it belongs as an FPP.

Well... it's on the internet.

Along with every news story every day.

FPPs obviously don't need to be about the internet in content. If you think that Metafilter's core mission is to present things that are "connected to the internet", what's the connection if not being on the internet?

I tend to think of it terms of the internet being the core of Metafilter and everything else clustering around that. Cool websites are dead center of the target. News and politics that directly concern the internet (say, Steven's "tubes" speech) are close in. Collections of pointers to internet resources on obscure topics are in, even if the websites themselves aren't that interesting.

Newsfilter and Politicsfilter are both way off target, but seem to be tolerated more and more as time goes on. It's disappointing really, as I (and at least a few other people it would seem) come to Metafilter specifically because it's not a current events social community. Particularly with politics -- I'm fully aware that there's an election going on, thank you, and I don't need to be soaking in it 24/7. Right now Metafilter is a welcome break from the constant barrage of political zealots of all stripes -- I'd like to keep it that way.
posted by tkolar at 4:00 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

I'm gutted I found this speech through Digg. I usually hate all the US centric FPPing round here especially the political type but that speech was all kinds of goodness.

I'm UK based but if this guy becomes your President I'll be so fuckin happy for y'all.
posted by brautigan at 4:01 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

"I suspect, however, that much of what White working class see is going to be filtered through the media. So a lot depends one how the speech gets spun.

Yeah, so people should spin it."

Can I say that I fucking hate Juan Williams right now? Reading him pontificating on why this speech won't stop the loop of the Wright comments really made me want to punch him in his face. Similarly, his comments on African-American culture the last time that Pew study about intra-racial attitudes came out were so simplistic that I wondered who'd stomped his mind-grapes. He used to be so good on NPR's afternoon shows; is he an idiot because he's now on Fox (or vice versa)?
posted by klangklangston at 4:10 PM on March 18

I just want to stand somewhere on record that that speech was the best political speech I have heard in my entire life span of 49 years. What a refreshing thing it is to hear someone speak the truth. And the truth is Obama is one of the few if not the only person who could have given that speech.


I still don't agree with his political views, I'm still a Republican, but I am gonna say that I have a lot of respect for Barack Obama and if he gets elected I hope he continues to surprise me like this.
posted by konolia at 4:35 PM on March 18 [6 favorites]

BTW if you think today's speech was awesome, you should see this one from MLK Day this year. GadDAM.

By simply being president at all, he'll scorch the eyebrows off the racist white element in America. And it looks like he's not afraid to excoriate the racist and homophobic elements of the black community either. Show me another candidate who can do either ONE of those.
posted by scarabic at 5:14 PM on March 18

I usually hate all the US centric FPPing round here especially the political type but that speech was all kinds of goodness.

Ah I've waited years for this comment. You made my minute.
posted by scarabic at 5:15 PM on March 18

There are times when this community is just the best.

For what it's worth the speech roxored me too, and I genuinely think (and hope) that it was a watershed moment in American race discussion as well as in politics. Apologies, I'm sorta brain dead today...
posted by emmet at 5:41 PM on March 18

Unfortunately, while some people may think this thread is the best, there's also some ugly things in here. I must've missed the previous comment you were referring to in your "apology" klang, but if what you're saying is what I think you're saying, wooooooowwww...just wow. And I know you tried to apologize for it, but repeating the very offensive insult in your apology kind of defeats the purpose. I can see why the mods want to leave the apology and such, but, ugh, that's just sticking out like a very ugly sore thumb.
posted by kkokkodalk at 6:14 PM on March 18

(as it were.)
posted by Dave Faris at 6:17 PM on March 18

Hey, I heard that Winston Churchill guy just made some speech about "blood, toil, tears and sweat." Eh, it's probably not worth talking about.

Hey, John Kennedy just gae some speech about a nuclear test ban treaty. Something about "let us re-examine our attitude toward the Soviet Union." Meh, we already have an open FPP about the Soviet Union.

Hey that Abe Lincoln guy just gave a speech about "a house divided". But we already have an open FPP about the Douglas-Lincoln race. No need to talk about this speech. and Lincoln doesn't have Douglas's 35 years of experience.

Barack Obama's speech today will be studied and analyzed and quoted for the next hundred years. It is one for the ages. A historic event is happening before our eyes. Why is it even a question -- of course there should be an FPP for the speech.
posted by orthogonality at 6:22 PM on March 18 [9 favorites]

For Matt's sake, why the fuck is American politics invading the friggin' grey now?

Isn't it enough that we get a American Politics post on the blue every damn day?
posted by five fresh fish at 6:22 PM on March 18

Matt, can we PRETTY PLEASE have a PoliFilter, maybe in a nice hue of purple, where the endless, oh-so-endless American politics crap can go? The USA is never not in an election cycle. Please put us out of its misery.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:27 PM on March 18

dios writes "Sucks doesn't it? Which is all the reason why we should avoid partisan political posts on the Blue. If you make posts that gore the oxen of people, you make the place inhospitable to those whose ox is being gored. It drives them away; leads to insularity. That's not a good thing. We don't need to be driving people away when we are supposed to be a community."

Right-on dios!

I guess we'd be ever more of a community, then, if we never discussed anything that anybody cold possibly disagree with.

Perhaps you'll post a hard-hitting FPP on rainbows are "pritty", unicorns are majestic, puppies are fluffy, and freshly-washed babies are soooo cuuuute!

We can all comment "Yes, I lurvs rainbows and puupies tooooo! And the latest boy-band fold-out in Teen Beat! Wheeee!"

Or we could all just not comment at all, secure that no one could possibly be in disagreement. And then Matt could remove comments, and rename the site"Lolpuppies! Lolrainbows!" and post super cute pictures of puppies playing with unicorns dancing under rainbows! Wheeee!

You don't like "partisan" topics dios, because you perversely enjoy employing your wealth of debating skill and insight as an apologist for what is shameful and a minimizer of what is evil, so long as the shame and evil is a product of your preferred Party.
posted by orthogonality at 6:41 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]

You'll appreciate this speech or else, fff, even if we have to throw every hyperbole at you.

They'll be talking about this speech at the Great Galactic Conference on Xenon in 2525!
posted by Dave Faris at 6:42 PM on March 18 [3 favorites]

Metafilter helped me get through the Bush years. Seriously. It helped me remember that there is a community of compassionate, intelligent people in this country who want to do the right thing. The community has developed such that *some* political discussion is tolerated, and cherished by many of us. That said, I would *hate* it if political discussion took up more than the 10% or so of the site that it currently occupies and I would never visit a PoliFilter site, there are already thousands of those. Metafilter is *my* community as it is *all of ours* and I want to engage the members of *this* community in the discussion.

So we have a presidential election year. The worst president in the history of the US is finally leaving and, against all odds, there is a candidate who reflects the values of many of us on this site: intelligent, compassionate, successful, articulate. We're fucking excited. The mods are doing a good job or turning the volume down on the noise and still there are some fantastic threads that are developing organically like this one. I just don't see the problem here.

I would not have heard about this speech until maybe tomorrow morning if it weren't for this thread, so thanks for posting it, even though it's on the grey.
posted by Slarty Bartfast at 6:49 PM on March 18 [5 favorites]

Unfortunately, while some people may think this thread is the best, there's also some ugly things in here. I must've missed the previous comment you were referring to in your "apology" klang, but if what you're saying is what I think you're saying, wooooooowwww...just wow. And I know you tried to apologize for it, but repeating the very offensive insult in your apology kind of defeats the purpose. I can see why the mods want to leave the apology and such, but, ugh, that's just sticking out like a very ugly sore thumb.
posted by kkokkodalk at 8:14 PM on March 18 [+] [!]

If kkokkodalk was talking about this post:

Oh, yeah, and since I shouldn't have phrased it like that, I apologize for the "dick clouding judgment." While I can't speak to his sexual prowess, I meant to imply (and still do willfully) that it's your relationship, not his anatomy, that's making you biased here.
posted by klangklangston at 4:24 PM on March 18 [+] [!]

I believe it was actually meant for another thread. Because this makes no sense, and sounds like it is from a relationshipfilter AskMe or something.
posted by Locative at 6:50 PM on March 18

I believe it was actually meant for another thread.

No, it was a comment for here and it was lame and beyond the pale.

orthogonality, dios, what is your strategy for both remaining on this site with each other?
posted by jessamyn at 6:55 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Oops. Mea culpa.
posted by Locative at 6:58 PM on March 18

jessamyn writes "orthogonality, dios, what is your strategy for both remaining on this site with each other?"

Huh? I've never had any problem with dios commenting here. He's insightful and an excellent debater. I disagree with most of his politics, especially his apologetics for the crimes of the present Administration.

But I don't dislike him (and indeed I've defended him when I've thought he's been treated unfairly). But when he defends (what to me is) the indefensible, I am incredulous: first I think to myself, this must be an advocate, a lawyer, doing his best to argue for his "client", because surely dios is too smart to actually believe this. I think, wait, he can't actually believe what he's arguing, can he? Then, "omigod, perhaps he really does".

For all that, especially for all that, I wouldn't want his voiced stilled; that's why I'm so taken aback by his argument that Metafilter should avoid partisan politics. But perhaps dios is finally tired of having his "clients" always in the dock, and having the heavy and unforgiving task of having to advocate for them.
posted by orthogonality at 7:21 PM on March 18 [1 favorite]

Barack Obama's speech today will be studied and analyzed and quoted for the next hundred years.

"This is the last time anyone tried being honest in American politics," they'll say. "It cemented once and for all that while voters might be moderate and connected to reality, presidential campaigns could not afford that luxury. While in itself the speech was brilliant and uniting, the so called 'Clay Foot' speech marked the moment when a heretofore untouchable idol revealed his very human, non-iconic roots. This and a series of shocks in later weeks caused the mythology surrounding the candidate to collapse, and with it the broad support he had enjoyed among non-traditional voting blocks. In the end the Democratic 'super-delegates' abandoned him completely, turning a closely watched race into a lopsided victory."


But here's hoping I'm wrong about that.
posted by tkolar at 7:25 PM on March 18

I meant to indicate that a finger-wagging comment about substance and the appropriate use of the blue from a guy who A) admits he doesn't get anything out of an intelligent, nuanced speech of the history of class and race in this country and B) is known for making posts about arguably the most insubstantial human beings of our generation... is that ironic? Or just hilarious? I can't tell. I'm too hopped up on all the kool-aid!

It's funny how my posting history somehow makes the value of my criticism less. I'm sure I could go through your history, find something as "vapid" and label all your future comments or points as unworthy or as negative as you view mine. It's a fun game but dull and pointless and all it does is illustrate your biases and lack of viewpoint, not mine.

Obama's speech says nothing and is very very good at doing it. It is not historical or groundbreaking or anything of the sort. It is, in a phrase, a good attempt at describing what the majority in this country would like to view the situation of race in the country. It stands not as a document detailing how life currently is but as how a white, young, and liberal would would like to view it. Everyone knows it exists and, being young and hip and aware of the world around them, these democrats or "independents" like to believe that they have the critical thinking skills to see the world objectively and to make a valid and progressive judgement of how the US really is. And these individuals sip their coffees, buy their carbon footprints, shop at Trader Joes and donate money to Obama's campaign feeling they are part of something - that they are actively making the world a better place. And they get to drive home in their economically sound vehicle and feel good about themselves and never actually have to suffer the consequences of being a member of a minority not of their own choosing.

It's funny how stating that I am not buying into the hype of Obama (and it is hype - he has no record to speak nor any kind of executive level experience in any form of government) is able to bring out the worse in people. It is as if I am attacking them personally - as if I called their mothers names or called them fat. Maybe its because people project so much hope onto this one candidate that any dissension is as if I am trying to kill hope. Obama has been very good at labeling him as this kind of candidate - hope, progress - to have this young liberal middle class project their ideals and aspirations onto a singular candidate with themselves actually not having to do anything to bring these ideas to fulfillment.

Obama's speech echos the themes of unity and coalition but his victories do not match his great words. The young, male, blacks and those misguided individuals who label themselves independents even though they only vote democrat are his coalition. In South Carolina, his "coalition" contained only 24% of the white voters. Even in Ohio, he only gained a sub majority of white voters. And in Texas, only 40% of the hispanic vote went his way. His "coalition" is not large nor all encompassing nor dominate. Unity and a coalition are not the words I would use to describe his supporters.

And yet, as this thread is indicative, people honestly believe he represents some large heterogenous movement that will sweep into Washington, destroy the system and replace it with something progressive and beneficial to all mankind. But no where does anyone say anything about why this speech had to be given and nor does Obama, in his speech, provide an effective answer to the reason why he finally took this opportunity to change his stance about using race in this campaign and to finally use it. And that reason is his pastor Jeremiah Wright.

Rev Jermiah Wright is an outspoken proponent of the poor and for the plight of African Americans in this country. He's experienced, suffered, and seen the effects of racism in his life and his congregations' life for quite a long time since he first was able to hear the Gospel. He has seen the systematic racism that forced the civil rights movement to exist. He has experienced the institutional and subtle racism that impacts every minority to this very day. He has lived it! And has become a very vocal critic against it. Like Obama says, his pastor spoke very divisive words - words that Obama, as a member of that community for over 20 years, became associated with. It is hard to be an active member of a community run by an individual and not suffer any guilt by association. When these allegations first came out, Obama tried to distance himself and ignore it - he claimed he wasn't around when the sermons were made. Then, a few days later, came out and condemned them but very wishy washy. And even this speech - this speech that was suppose to be historical and ground breaking and one spouting unity and coalition building - there is still very little said. Obama condemns the words but offers nothing of substance in its place. He defends his pastor - pointing to his pastor's experience performing the social work that Jesus demands of all Christians but that very few actually do. And, in fact, Obama's quote about his experience at Trinity reminds me very much of the liberation theology that currently runs rampant in Latin America and any other place where a poor people suffer at the hands of an oppressor. And this oppressor can be labeled by many names and even abstracted to the point where it loses current traction but it's hard not to see these words and not think that Obama's pastor viewed the US and it's culture at the oppressor of Rev Wright's world. And this was a worldview that Obama supported and participated in for twenty years.

"...race is an issue that I believe this nation cannot afford to ignore right now" Obama says. And he is right but it is interesting that, since day 1 of his campaign, he tried to ignore his race as long as possible. Hillary and Obama both tried to push race and gender to the sidelines; to try and have the public listen to their views and their voices and not focus on whether one is black and whether one is a woman. Those were seen as traps - as ways to put the candidate in a box and have them fight their way out. Hillary may be a woman and Obama may be a black man but race and gender...well, the campaign was suppose to move beyond that. Obama is right in saying that race is an issue that we cannot ignore. The problem is that we haven't ignored it; in fact, we've been lying to ourselves about it since day 1. And he is also mistaken to assume that the current world is any different from the day of Wright and his Trinity congregation. It is still the present day and his attempt to label the white middle class "resentment" is a weak sauce attempt to build a coalition without actually saying anything real or meaningful. We are not at a racial stalemate and we never have been and it is misguided to say that we are.

Take a look at the big cities around you, Detroit, Newark, Philadelphia. Homicides are still high with most of the victims being young black men. And they are not killed for drugs or for money. But they are killed for honor because the 20% unemployment rate and the lack of any substantial opportunities is making warfare appear to be the most manly thing to do. Young minority women make more than their male counterparts. Minorities are still not attending college in anywhere near the numbers that they should and with current economic conditions and the freezing of credit markets, the opportunities for young minorities to attend college is decreasing. At my alma mater, black enrollment is remaining static or decreasing while latino is going up. Walk down the street and witness people's interactions with African immigrants and with African Americans and you will observe that there is quite a difference in the experiences of both. African Americans in this country are still suffering the legacy of race, slavery, and bondage. And this story is not limited to just African Americans. Latinos, Asians, Native Americans and every other nationality that is not WASP still suffers in this country. And until immigrants to this country stop labeling themselves as "white" because "that's what America is", race is always going to be an issue in this country.

The problem with Obama's speech is that he speaks of us having transcended our racial heritage. He claims we haven't and he asks us to unite together and to embrace our common experience as Americans. He acts as if we've advanced past Rev Wright's generation and as if today everyone has the opportunity to advance forward. Obama's calls of unity mask his assumption that we are at a racial stalemate where the white majority and the minorities are at some similar point and where both sides can enter into a dialogue as equals. But they cannot because the white experience is different from the black or the brown. And the current racial experience of minorities has not evolved to the point where white resentment at affirmative action can be seen on the same level as honor killings in downtown Newark. The black-vs-brown gang wars in southern California, the still ridiculous response to hurricane Katrina and the ever prevalent fact that more minorities are in prison then whites shows that the system that Obama is so proud of is far from as perfect as he'd like it to be. And that is why his speech lacks substance, why it lacks nuance and why it lacks any chance at being a groundbreaking or historical speech. Martin Luther King Jr made historical speeches. Caesar Chavez made historical speeches. Obama has not.

But feel free to continue your worship of all that is Obama and blind yourself to the fact that the reality he believes in doesn't exist. You might project your feelings of hope, of success, of honor, on him but do not let it blind you to the fact that his speech on race is as groundbreaking as a 14.4k modem. The United States he described is not the one that I experience every day and that countless other individuals experience every day. Both Hillary and Obama are weak when it comes to race because both have to appease the faux reality that many whites believe really exists. And when it comes down to who I would support, I will support the candidate who's policies and plans will do the best so that my future son will never be told to go back to his own country, will never be treated as a second class citizen because of his skin, will never be seen as a commodity in whatever school he is, will never be told to put up with racist attitudes from those in authority and never be chased by whites with bats or have a dog let loose on him because his ancestors arrived in the United States a few thousand years before yours did. And that candidate is Hillary Clinton.
posted by Stynxno at 7:32 PM on March 18 [7 favorites]

orthogonality, dios, what is your strategy for both remaining on this site with each other?

I think that dios and orthogonality get along quite well on the site. They are among the most intelligent members and even when they clash they usually do it with respect for each other. To be honest, each one of them is a favorite member of mine, I am fairly aligned with orthogonality politically (although I am not reliably left), yet I appreciate with relish dios's non-left take on the issues (although he is no right wing ideologue as many people try to paint him, more of a contrarian). They are the best of MetaFilter. You guys rock on.
posted by caddis at 7:33 PM on March 18

I've never had any problem with dios commenting here.

Then maybe you shouldn't say stuff like this.

You don't like "partisan" topics dios, because you perversely enjoy employing your wealth of debating skill and insight as an apologist for what is shameful and a minimizer of what is evil, so long as the shame and evil is a product of your preferred Party.

Seriously, both of you seem like you're waving your hands around and rolling your eyes at the jury as you state your case. In my family we used to call these antics "grade my report card" gestures. If you want dios to be civil, be civil to him and leave the shame and evil talk alone. I've already emailed with dios about this somewhat.

My basic point, nothing to do with the two of you, is that this site doesn't do partisan politics very well. It's a bad site for heated arguing. Okay for debating, but not really for the sort of "shame on you" and "fuck your candidate" sort of dagger-y talk that some people like to employ. None of the mods enjoy those sorts of posts. We all care about politics personally but threads that are just like "fuck you American soldiers" or "fuck you Hillary" or "OMG SPEECH BY OBAMA" aren't that great. They're hell to moderate and they often go badly here and cause a lot of ill will. If the speech is destined for greatness, it will be as great or greater in two days when there's more things to say about it other than "yes, I liked it too"

We're dying for someone else to do a politicsfilter site. We're not going to do one here.
posted by jessamyn at 7:37 PM on March 18