Comments on: MeFiNo

MeFiNo

Taksi Putra — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:19:10 -0800

Hey MeFi, who's up for a game of Nomic?

We could play on the wiki.

By: gerryblog

gerryblog — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:33:21 -0800

I've been wanting to play Nomic for a long time. Sounds good to me.

By: ALongDecember

ALongDecember — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:46:22 -0800

The primary activity of Nomic is proposing changes in the rules, debating the wisdom of changing them in that way, voting on the changes, deciding what can and cannot be done afterwards, and doing it. Even this core of the game, of course, can be changed.

Sounds like MetaTalk. Haven't we been playing Nomic here for about 8 years now?

By: Falconetti

Falconetti — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:47:25 -0800

I propose you give me $100 to win.

By: KokuRyu

KokuRyu — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:51:11 -0800

I propose that you need to have the user-name "KokuRyu" to comment in this thread.

By: jeblis

jeblis — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:55:00 -0800

Read some of the games that have been played for years and a lot of the rules surround what to do when people become disinterested and stop playing. Still sounds like fun.

By: not_on_display

not_on_display — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:57:20 -0800

I propose all votes of "yes" to a new rule are automatically switched to "no"; all votes of "no" are then changed to "tuna fish on rye."

By: Taksi Putra

Taksi Putra — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 20:59:10 -0800

Yay.
Ok. So here's the MeFi Nomic page.
Nomic on Wikipedia and Peter Suber's piece explaining Nomic.

From the Wikipedia: Games of Nomic sometimes last for a very long time - Agora has been running since 1993.

By: goodnewsfortheinsane

goodnewsfortheinsane — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:07:58 -0800

I'm in.

By: acorncup

acorncup — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:15:06 -0800

Is this anything like Calvin Ball?

By: cortex

cortex — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:17:58 -0800

Man, I am so game. I actually got inspired to start in on a simple blog-inspired ruleset after I made that post, but I didn't get passed a partial first draft (which you can check out here).

There's a question of starting point: standard Suber ruleset is kind of heavy, but there are some common stripped-down sets that might make for a quicker and less legalistic start to the game.

Another question: whether we want to conduct this whole thing on the actual mefi wiki or if it'd be better to set up a separate wiki space so as not to pollute the hell out of the main wiki with a bunch of game noise. My inclination is to play it elsewhere while using the main wiki as staging/organizational ground, personally.

By: stavrosthewonderchicken

stavrosthewonderchicken — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:21:57 -0800

My proposal is that all subsequent proposals be proposed in such a way that they sound vaguely like an inappropriate sexual proposal.

By: bonobo

bonobo — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:34:04 -0800

I propose that those in favor of stavros' proposal should admire his cock and pullet.

By: ODiV

ODiV — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:41:03 -0800

So is this a "the only winning move is not to play?" type scenario?

By: the littlest brussels sprout

the littlest brussels sprout — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:53:37 -0800

I would, but I'm in the middle of a round of Mornington Crescent at the moment, and it's getting a bit sticky.

By: amyms

amyms — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:57:35 -0800

I went to the Mefi Nomic page and all it says is:

This page is for Mefi Nomic.

Where and when do we play?

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 21:58:46 -0800

I propose a toast...

By: flatluigi

flatluigi — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:07:21 -0800

If we can get it started, sure. I've always been interested in playing a nomic, but most discussions usually get as far as this -- everyone saying how cool it'd be and nobody wanting to get it together to start it.

By: Meatbomb

Meatbomb — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:11:26 -0800

I want.

By: Meatbomb

Meatbomb — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:15:03 -0800

I am ready, now. Where we start?

By: Taksi Putra

Taksi Putra — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:25:24 -0800

Hm, Hello.

Any changes proposed must be voted on.
This means we need to know how many people are active in the game.

So what I say is, head over to the MeFi Nomic page.
Put your name in the list when you've read the rules and are ready to play.
Let's start the first round when 29 people are ready.
(Why 29? Dunno. 29 initial rules. Something to start it off etc.)

By: ODiV

ODiV — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:34:43 -0800

So after reading the rules, it looks like murder and cannibalism are allowed?

I don't think I'd be up for that.

By: It's Raining Florence Henderson

It's Raining Florence Henderson — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:39:44 -0800

So after reading the rules, it looks like murder and cannibalism are allowed?

Can we kill the Travelocity Nome? I'd be up for that.

[NOT GNOMIC]

By: 1

Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:39:48 -0800

yay!

By: mwhybark

mwhybark — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 22:43:53 -0800

Oddly, I think I'm in. But I'm road bizzy for two-three weeks. See you then.

By: wendell

wendell — Sun, 23 Mar 2008 23:16:45 -0800

huh, my microphone just went dead... NO MIC!!!

I'm in. I am so in. Could I be any more in? I am in like Flynn, Flint and Flintstone. I am so in, I'm in danger of falling out the other end. My in-ness can not be denied. I am in the groove, in the mood, in style, in luck, in condition, in a meeting, in so much trouble and in with the in crowd. I am totally into this. I AM AN INNIE!

By: Corduroy

Corduroy — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 03:41:05 -0800

acorncup is right - this is just a nerdy Calvin Ball.

By: Corduroy

Corduroy — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 03:41:26 -0800

not that that is a bad thing, just saying.

By: flabdablet's sock puppet

flabdablet's sock puppet — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 03:44:00 -0800

He's in.

By: robocop is bleeding

robocop is bleeding — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 04:26:30 -0800

Awesome. I call dibs on Hygiene Officer.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 05:05:05 -0800

"Where and when do we play?"

- amyms

"I ache in the places where I used to play."

- Leonard Cohen

By: misha

misha — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 08:58:26 -0800

I don't know what Nomic is, but I just lost The Game.

By: Burhanistan

Burhanistan — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:12:36 -0800

I'm in. I'm a total moron, by the way. But that should help this kind of thing along.

By: 1

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:38:52 -0800

I don't know what Nomic is, but I just lost The Game.

ah FUCK!!

By: backseatpilot

backseatpilot — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 09:56:25 -0800

I'm up for it. You'll be my first, so be gentle.

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 10:29:53 -0800

Hey can I play? I don't know how to put myself on the wiki list.

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 10:30:43 -0800

Ha! I learned how! Forget I posted that, I don't want to show any sign of weakness.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:41:05 -0800

I'm in-ish.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 11:43:42 -0800

Aaaaand... from the look of the wiki, we've already abandoned good faith and moved towards the absurdity and self-destruction inherent in unbounded consensus models!

By: cortex

cortex — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:05:25 -0800

I think varying expectations as to how the game is to proceed, and how play will be tracked and organized, may be a big challenge to getting this off the ground (varying previous Nomic experiences, if any, being a big part of those expectations). Then again, you could argue that it's already happily underway and I'm just yelling at people on my lawn, so, hey.

For what its worth, a dedicated mailing list or listserv has been the central means of communication in the few organized games I've played; the wiki can be a great way to actually track the state of the game, but it presents a challenge as a means of notification—you're depending on players to check the site in order for anything that requires action to happen, which can make it awfully hard to get things responded to in a timely fashion. Not to say it can't be done, and maybe a ruleset that accomodates votes by plurality or quorum rather than something requiring more or less everyone to respond one way or the other can keep things moving.

But I do find myself hoping for a little more clear an idea of how the business end of playing is going to be conducted. If it is all happening on the wiki, how? Etc.

By: flatluigi

flatluigi — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:12:39 -0800

You could use your awesome mod powers and create a permanently-open thread here for the nomic game.

By: cortex

cortex — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:16:55 -0800

If we have a functioning nomic game in a thread here (I have doubts about that working well, but I have doubts about lots of things that end up working out) and the only thing getting in the way is the approach of the thirty day mark, we can worry about that then.

By: flatluigi

flatluigi — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:20:55 -0800

I was thinking that using a thread for the discussion and linear play of the game that could easily be followed by the RSS feed or other methods while simultaneously using a wiki page for the rules just might work.

By: Meatbomb

Meatbomb — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 12:40:28 -0800

cortex: each turn can be a new page - "301" will be the first guy on turn 1. The talk page can be debate, there can be a vote form pasted at the bottom of each of these turn pages when it is time to vote.

By: 1

Mon, 24 Mar 2008 13:51:58 -0800

A wiki could be a problem as there is currently no rule against going back and editing the rules, editing the results of past votes, editing peoples' turns, etc. I guess that's part of the game, though. . .

By: agropyron

agropyron — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:19:41 -0800

How long would players have to debate and vote on each turn? No time limit? I'd be interested in playing if I didn't have to commit to spending a certain amount of time every day.

By: mosessis

mosessis — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:47:40 -0800

I'm signed up - let's see where this goes.

Oh, and definite novice here. But it already looks interesting.

By: slogger

slogger — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 14:56:53 -0800

If I had any idea what the hell Nomic is about, I'd join. But after reading the Nomic page, the wiki and the rules, I can't has understand Nomic.

By: turaho

turaho — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:24:39 -0800

Ok, I'm in.

By: motty

motty — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 15:47:06 -0800

Hrm. I appear to be the 29th to say "I'm in".

By: Durn Bronzefist

Durn Bronzefist — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 17:22:12 -0800

Yeah, I'm with slogger. Perhaps watching the first game will help make sense of it all.

I will cheer you from the sidelines.

(unless someone makes a rule against it)

By: blasdelf

blasdelf — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:09:09 -0800

By: jayCampbell

jayCampbell — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 18:54:00 -0800

The wiki got convoluted right off the bat, so I tossed up a Drupal to separate the rules from the proposed rules and their surrounding discussions.

Register here and you'll be able to edit the main rules page like on the wiki.

You can post a Rule Proposal, and I'm working on the voting system.

There's a forum for discussion that falls outside any particular rule proposal.

Whaddya think?

By: Taksi Putra

Taksi Putra — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:05:10 -0800

Hello. I wrote down some ideas on the Talk page.
jay your Drupal looks sweet.

By: jayCampbell

jayCampbell — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:13:25 -0800

Thanks - in theory I have a 5-star rating system for use on group voting on proposals now. I did google for "drupal nomic" before starting down this road...

By: jayCampbell

jayCampbell — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:22:16 -0800

I propose calling the drupal's copy of the ruleset the official source, using its proposal/voting system, and moving further discussion into its forum system. Any objections, Taksi Putra?

By: Taksi Putra

Taksi Putra — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:31:52 -0800

Nope. Let's go. Your turn, 1.

By: jayCampbell

jayCampbell — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:36:06 -0800

So noted on the front page. 1 needs to go here to submit his proposal. Let the game begin.

By: Meatbomb

Meatbomb — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:49:53 -0800

The second blogshares setup is fail: on wiki we can easily see history, who edited what.

On blogshares anyone can fill the "proposed new rule", although it should be only 1 (or is it !Jim?) who should be able to do that now. The invitation on blogshares "If you don't like the rules, propose a rule change!" is misleading.

By: Meatbomb

Meatbomb — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 19:58:14 -0800

I would like to publicly state that it seems someone is using my "Meatbomb" handle on the nomic sites. I am not sure who Aaron A Aaronson is, but he is NOT Meatbomb, and should therefore not appear in turn sequence based on my name here, but on the name he has stated on the nomic board, i.e. he should be at the top of the list because his name is Aaron.

By: jayCampbell

jayCampbell — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 20:06:02 -0800

I just gave everyone 'view revisions' perms on the Drupal so changes will be transparent.

I'll fix that verbiage too.

By: jeblis

jeblis — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 20:31:57 -0800

Umm looks like people have already edited rules on the Wiki and the other page. Who authorized this?

By: shelleycat

shelleycat — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 20:45:04 -0800

Since this is supposed to be metafilter related, at least in origin, and as there have been suggestions to run some of it over here, surely we need to know the metafilter usernames of everyone involved? It seems a bit weird (to me anyway) to join in a metafilter game without wanting anyone to know who you are on metafilter itself?

I guess I could always save that up as my rule revision.

(no clue how this is going to work but am looking forward to participating anyway)

By: jayCampbell

jayCampbell — Mon, 24 Mar 2008 23:27:27 -0800

I added a profile field for your mefi username.

By: waxbanks

waxbanks — Tue, 25 Mar 2008 08:17:01 -0800

Finally, finally! I've been wanting to get back into Nomic since Rishonomic and Ackanomic died out ages and ages ago (along with my childhood, *sniff*).

By: shelleycat

shelleycat — Thu, 27 Mar 2008 22:51:15 -0800

Just in case anyone missed it, the game is in full swing over here. One of our issues is what to do about players who have signed up but not turned up, so if that might be you then get over there and join in before you become ineligible. Start by voting here.