Comments on: Metafilter Music Collaboration #2

Metafilter Music Collaboration #2

Karlos the Jackal — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 03:13:59 -0800

A bunch of us had fun with goodnewsfortheinsane's "It's the End of the World..." project last year. I think it's time to try another project, Exquisite Corpse style.

Here is my proposal: I have a little tune to use as the "seed." I'll send it to Person #1. Person #1 will record a track to go along with it, and will send that track -- isolated -- not including the seed track -- to Person #2. Person #2 will record a track to go along with Person #1's track, and will send their track -- but not Person #1's track -- to Person #3. And so on. Each contributor hears only the last person's contribution. There are details to be worked out (like: should percussion get its own "spur"?), but that's basically the deal. After "enough" people contribute, I'll try to put everything together. Interested?

By: bunnytricks

bunnytricks — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:31:11 -0800

Count me in.

By: uncleozzy

uncleozzy — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:39:36 -0800

That sounds insane. I mean, I'm not gonna say no, but it does sound a little insane. You guys are gonna hate my track of meowing cats.

By: loiseau

loiseau — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:40:50 -0800

YES.

By: Jofus

Jofus — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:43:08 -0800

Want to. Can't.

By: bunnytricks

bunnytricks — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:45:25 -0800

Just a thought, but there should probably be a "no reverb" rule. A couple dozen different rooms with a couple dozen flavors of reverb would be impossible to mix into anything coherent.

By: Meatbomb

Meatbomb — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:51:52 -0800

Please let me in this.

By: uncleozzy

uncleozzy — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 05:55:18 -0800

Oh yeah, why would you print reverb? Unless you've got access to an EMT plate or something, in which case stick it on a separate track. The exception being spring on a guitar or something, when it's part of the "sound."

By: davey_darling

davey_darling — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:09:18 -0800

I said I'd try it last time, and now I'm saying it again.

By: burnmp3s

burnmp3s — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:10:49 -0800

What about posting all of the finished tracks separately at the end so that multiple people could take a shot at mixing them? It would be fun to see who can come up with the best remix that uses at least some part of all of the tracks.

By: uncleozzy

uncleozzy — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:16:45 -0800

Oh yeah, I'd definitely like to take a crack at mixing it. (I just took part in a mixing "event" elsewhere on these interwebs, and it was tremendously educational.) Although it'll be a huge job, given that nobody really knows what anybody else has recorded. It still sounds insane. I dig it.

By: cortex

cortex — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:07:14 -0800

Man, I'm in. This thing is going to turn out weird, but yeah.

A reference click or percussion seed seems like a good idea; some way to convey tempo other than forcing each contribution to carry it, and making sure the more melodic contributions have something to follow other than atonal percussion, etc.

What about posting all of the finished tracks separately at the end so that multiple people could take a shot at mixing them?

Yeah, definitely. We did that for the previous project, though I can't remember any specific remixes that came of it.

By: quin

quin — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:12:34 -0800

Want to. Barred from touching musical instruments on penalty of criminal prosecution and/ or burning at the stake. (I'm that bad.)

I will, however, be happy to listen to anything that is produced.

By: uncleozzy

uncleozzy — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:28:11 -0800

Yeah, as much as organic would be nice, this'd get really messy without a click. Or at least a tone track to line everybody up at beat 1. But a click or percussion bed would be better. An uneven tempo would be okay, but I think some people might have trouble working with it.

By: god hates math

god hates math — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:38:35 -0800

I'm definitely in, both for tracking and mixing.

We did that for the previous project, though I can't remember any specific remixes that came of it.

I did two, only one of which I ever posted. I should probably post the other.

By: xorry

xorry — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:44:48 -0800

I'd love to be in on this, too. Thirding the click track.

By: xorry

xorry — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:46:48 -0800

Ohh, and should we have a key designated, also? I'm thinking we could have an interesting mess after person X passes his cowbell track on to person X+1. Or... is not having a specific one part of the fun?

By: signal

signal — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:22:11 -0800

There should be a click + simple chord progression -track so there's at least a semblance of harmony and rhythm.

By: signal

signal — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:23:08 -0800

And I'm in, for this one (balked the last time for lack of love for R.E.M. in general and ITEOTWAWKI in particular).

By: potch

potch — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:35:04 -0800

Totally absolutely in. And I second the click track/progression idea.

By: owtytrof

owtytrof — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:36:53 -0800

Amazingly intriguing. I look forward to seeing(actually, hearing) what the lot of you end up producing. I might take a shot at mixing, but I don't think I could contribute a track. I don't even know where my guitar has gotten off to these days.

By: uncleozzy

uncleozzy — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:44:26 -0800

So Karlos, what's in this seed track? Percussion? Autoharp? Coffee can full of beans?

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:49:24 -0800

This is a fine idea. I'm down.

I'd vote for a click, too. And for multiple remix chances.

By: ORthey

ORthey — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:29:54 -0800

WANT.

By: InfidelZombie

InfidelZombie — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:52:02 -0800

Count me in too.

By: emelenjr

emelenjr — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:53:40 -0800

Count me in.

By: chococat

chococat — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:19:05 -0800

I'd try.

By: nanojath

nanojath — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:28:44 -0800

I'll volunteer to throw some additional weird into the mix

By: umbú

umbú — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:29:21 -0800

I'm in. Definitely post the puzzle pieces so that several mixes can result.

By: jpdoane

jpdoane — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:32:01 -0800

Dang - I have a hard time imagining this thing sounding good. For this to work, every single track would need to capture the harmony, melody, rhythm of the song. If you loose any of these, the latter tracks will not work at all with the earlier tracks.

How do you let people that only play drums contribute? How about people that would like to just add ambient sound or something?

I think you need to give the same "seed" track to everyone

Anyway, count me in

By: jpdoane

jpdoane — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:33:48 -0800

or on non-preview, what xorry said

By: cortex

cortex — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:59:03 -0800

Dang - I have a hard time imagining this thing sounding good.

I totally hear you on this, but I guess I'm just sort of willingly embracing the tonally bizarre mess we're going to end up with, is the thing. People probably have different ideas here of just how to manage an audio analogue to Exquisite Corpse; I find the incoherence of that game to be the essential charm.

So the whole idea of a rambling, tonally-borked-as-a-whole collection of tracks actually appeals to me, but it might not be what some folks are thinking of. I see the outcome of this thing being (a) a giant, bizarre mix, along with (b) some way to present the move from one adjascent pair or trio of tracks to the next, perhaps as a mix with a running crossfade down the mix of tracks.

It's a big messy adventure, in other words.

By: jpdoane

jpdoane — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:08:07 -0800

It's a big messy adventure, in other words.

Ok cool. Just so we have the proper expectations. This will be mostly an adventure in creative editing... I'm thinking what will end up happening is sort of a revolving window where "neighboring" tracks fade in and out over each other, rather than trying to mix everything together at once. Actually, that could be kinda cool.

Anyway add me to the list. Everything needs a guitar solo. Especially big messy adventures.

By: smartyboots

smartyboots — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:28:39 -0800

I'm in.

By: regicide is good for you

regicide is good for you — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:46:53 -0800

Oh hell yes.

By: tdismukes

tdismukes — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:53:54 -0800

I'm in.

I will add another vote for the click track and the basic chord progression chart.

By: burnmp3s

burnmp3s — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:00:42 -0800

Also, to avoid this taking forever and/or never ending, I would suggest having a set time limit to finish your version and give it to whoever's next in line. If you don't come up with something before the deadline you would have to give up and pass the previous version on to the next person instead.

By: equalpants

equalpants — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:48:59 -0800

Awesome, count me in.

By: speicus

speicus — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 13:31:31 -0800

I'm in, but only if there is NOT a chord progression chart.

I think whoever puts the thing together should have license to reorganize things, like working from a bank of samples, rather than just overlaying everything on top of each other.

By: Karlos the Jackal

Karlos the Jackal — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 14:39:21 -0800

I think whoever puts the thing together should have license to reorganize things, like working from a bank of samples, rather than just overlaying everything on top of each other.

This is what I was thinking, too. It wouldn't end up as "here is everyone playing at once from Point A to Point B" -- anyone mixing it would have the freedom to extend parts, mute them, shift them around in time (or even pitch, I guess), add effects, or do whatever they want.

Click Track: I could put up a click track as a seperate file. If you want to try recording without it (maybe you're doing something more ambienty), go ahead, but it's here if you want it.

Drums: Perhaps they would occupy a seperate "spur." When someone records percussion, it branches off from the main thread and gets sent to the next percussionist, while the main thread backs up one step. (Atonal stuff could do the same.)

Chords: The seed is a very short melody, so I haven't really thought about chords (I'm not much on music theory). Maybe the chord progression (once one is established by someone else) could be posted as a spoiler or something -- "click here to see the chord progression."

The seed is a 20-second melody line and that's it. I'll loop it a few times so that Person #1 has some time to work with it. (Nothing will stop any contributor from looping it over and over and recording a 10-minute track, either.) I thought it would be fun to start simple and see how complex things get. Once tracks are done, their entrances and exits can be staggered to make the song as long as we like.

By: cabingirl

cabingirl — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:10:25 -0800

Count me in, please!

By: TwoWordReview

TwoWordReview — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:32:05 -0800

If you don't come up with something before the deadline you would have to give up and pass the previous version on to the next person instead.

Yes, definitely agree with this. Count me in!

By: jayCampbell

jayCampbell — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 15:37:27 -0800

I'm in. Thanks Karlos!

By: garfy3

garfy3 — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:32:58 -0800

i'm totally in - for a track contribution (not necessarily mixing any of this stuff later [yikes!]).

By: signal

signal — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:34:46 -0800

Would it make sense to have more than 1 thread, say 3 or so, depending on how many people sign up, so we're not all sitting around waiting for our turn?

By: cortex

cortex — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:41:13 -0800

That's not a bad idea, signal. Maybe group contributors into lots of five, start every group with the same seed, go from there. A good Corpse usually runs four or five turns anyway, and this might reduce somewhat the drift if there are several parallel evolutions instead of one extremely long game of telephone.

By: snsranch

snsranch — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 17:23:24 -0800

This sounds like great fun, please count me in too!

By: bunnytricks

bunnytricks — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 18:56:31 -0800

Karlos: Unless we use mp3s, how are we going to send tracks to just you and the next person in line? Large, high fidelity files are too big for email (well, gmail at least) and require an FTP server but if we upload to there then everyone involved can grab them.

By: snsranch

snsranch — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:10:54 -0800

Hey bunnytricks, I've been sending decent quality mp3s on hotmail for a while now and haven't had any problems. (Exactly the same as for MeFiMusic)

By: signal

signal — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:12:13 -0800

We could stipulate 320 Kbps or whatever, no?

By: snsranch

snsranch — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:18:12 -0800

Does anyone remember what the standard format for MeFiMusic is? All I know is that if it's not quite right things either won't play or will play too fast or slow.

By: snsranch

snsranch — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 19:21:49 -0800

signal, yes.

By: Karlos the Jackal

Karlos the Jackal — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 21:38:48 -0800

I'm not much with technology, so if someone (snranch?) wants to issue a fiat and say "this is the format we will use" that would be the best thing.

Would it make sense to have more than 1 thread, say 3 or so, depending on how many people sign up, so we're not all sitting around waiting for our turn?

Sure; I was thinking about this in a limited sense already, in terms of percussion having its own thread. (It might be better to split or start another thread further into the process, once there's a sense of how many people are actually participating as opposed to just pledging; I think gnfti had about 15 people out of 50, which I think is actually pretty good.)

Tonight or tommorow I will tally up people who have said "I'm in" and send out a MeMail asking what you think you might contribute (just so that we don't start off with uncleozzy's all-cat track) and if you're ready now or if you want to come in later down the line. Then I will put together a flowchart based on that.

By: jayCampbell

jayCampbell — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 22:24:40 -0800

I'll offer hosting and a content management system if wanted.

By: univac

univac — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 02:47:57 -0800

In.

Please do not include any chord charts. A chord chart is an abstraction, and I think it would detract from the concrete immediacy that makes an exquisite corpse what it is.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 05:18:06 -0800

univac, you can always just ignore any chord charts that might accompany the audio files, but for those who'd like to have them, well, why shouldn't they have them? No problem, right?

By: uncleozzy

uncleozzy — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 06:06:09 -0800

Actually, my cats are not very cooperative at meowing on cue. I might have to hang some mics in the kitchen at feeding time. Or, failing that, replace my missing nose whistle and give you all a real treat. Or possibly a chopsticks-on-cookware percussion track.

Also, to the subject of file formats. I don't know how you guys are with FLAC (I haven't tried it, but I hear it's the cat's pajamas), but it ought to reduce the size of the WAVs by half or so losslessly, which would be nice.

Alternatively, we could pass around 192kbps MP3/AAC during the tracking process, and post WAV/FLAC files for the mix (I like this). We should also agree on a bitrate (probably 44.1kHz).

By: dan g.

dan g. — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 07:37:55 -0800

This sounds awesome! Count me in, as long as I don't need to remember to come back to this thread to remind myself that I'm participating...

By: Grangousier

Grangousier — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:23:39 -0800

Sounds mad enough to work. Count me in, please.

By: wanderingmind

wanderingmind — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 09:23:40 -0800

Count me in, definitely. I need more excuses to write music.

By: blacklite

blacklite — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 11:39:16 -0800

I would like to be in. Can I just have the opportunity to submit a track without the pressure of knowing if I totally fail it won't hold up anyone else?

... I guess if that isn't possible I will sign up anyway. Hah.

By: Pallas Athena

Pallas Athena — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 11:53:35 -0800

In.

By: umbú

umbú — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 12:52:47 -0800

Karlos, I'm not sure how I'll respond to your e-mail because what I do will depend on what I'm given, right? I guess I could give you some hypothetical directions.

By: !Jim

!Jim — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:34:32 -0800

By: snsranch

snsranch — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 15:59:17 -0800

I've been using mp3 at 128kbps for sharing on e-mail and uploading to MeFiMu with no problems.

Sound good to y'all?

By: tehloki

tehloki — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:07:46 -0800

I promise to make this as weird and psychedelic as I possibly can.

By: Karlos the Jackal

Karlos the Jackal — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 16:51:56 -0800

Karlos, I'm not sure how I'll respond to your e-mail because what I do will depend on what I'm given, right? I guess I could give you some hypothetical directions.

Yes, that's fine. Anybody can change their mind at any time. What I am thinking about is being able to alternate people so that, say, a ukelele player doesn't get a track from another ukelele player, but those are bridges that we may decide to not even cross.

(Next time we will use a randomizer to determine what instrument everyone plays, regardless of ability or availablility.)

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:40:50 -0800

...we will use a randomizer to determine what instrument everyone plays, regardless of ability or availablility.

I have no ability on the nose flute, and they are unavailable in my area, so sign me up for nose flute. What? The nose flute slot is taken? OK, then, I'll take alphorn.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 17:45:58 -0800

...say, a ukelele player doesn't get a track from another ukelele player, but those are bridges that we may decide to not even cross...

Or, you know, maybe one ukulele player could play his part behind the bridge. Or maybe just remove the bridge altogether, so the strings go all floppy and it won't sound like a ukulele anyway. Yeah, that'd solve the problem.

signed,

James Brown

P.S. Can I take it to the bridge!

By: fleacircus

fleacircus — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:45:22 -0800

I'm in, if I can scrape up a mic.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 19:46:42 -0800

I've got a scraped up mic you can borrow.

By: !Jim

!Jim — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 20:24:48 -0800

Can I take it to the bridge!

I haven't seen it. Has anyone seen the bridge?

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 21:42:24 -0800

I burned all mine behind me.

By: Karlos the Jackal

Karlos the Jackal — Wed, 30 Apr 2008 23:17:24 -0800

I have sent out thirty MeFi Mails, which is apparently the maximum allowed per hour. I will send out the rest in an hour or so.

By: Karlos the Jackal

Karlos the Jackal — Thu, 01 May 2008 00:23:52 -0800

Okay, I've sent out a total of 36 MeFi Mails (and one reg'lar email). If you think you should've gotten one and you didn't, let me know.

If you're just now finding this and want to contribute, that's okay; the serial nature should allow us to fold in newcomers fairly easily. Post here or drop me a line.

By: !Jim

!Jim — Thu, 01 May 2008 02:12:14 -0800

Someone should set up one of them internet-websites so that we can organize off-site if need be.

By: uncleozzy

uncleozzy — Thu, 01 May 2008 07:24:45 -0800

I've been using mp3 at 128kbps for sharing on e-mail and uploading to MeFiMu with no problems.

Can we please use plain-old WAVs or AIFFs for mixing, though? Pretty please? Passing around low-bitrate MP3s for tracking is fine... good, even. But you really can't mix with them.

By: snsranch

snsranch — Thu, 01 May 2008 07:35:23 -0800

uncleozzy, that sounds good to me!

By: cortex

cortex — Thu, 01 May 2008 07:37:49 -0800

Yeah, mp3s for chaining, but keep your raw WAVs to upload when the whole damn thing is done.

By: Karlos the Jackal

Karlos the Jackal — Thu, 01 May 2008 21:45:47 -0800

How about: Everyone emails me your straight-up WAV when you're done. (I've gotten WAVs in my gmail before, so I'm pretty sure I can handle it, especially since I'll only be getting one at a time.)

I'll archive it, make a 128kb MP3 copy, and send that to the next person.

Contributors don't need to worry about getting sent a huge file, and I'll have a collection of all of the WAVs in one place.

When we're done, we can figure out where to host the files, and I can either email them or FTP them or even send out physical CDs with the WAVs on them.

I'm going to go watch Lost now

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Thu, 01 May 2008 22:17:34 -0800

cortex, you reminded me of that old favorite of mine, "Raw WAVs". They used to play it at the Grand Ole Opry evr'y Saturday night :

I remember when my daddy sat me down upon his knee
he said when you're swappin' files, you'd best use mp3
just keep it light, cause other files, you know they weigh a ton,
keep your raw WAVs to upload when the whole damn thing is done.
yes keep your raw WAVs to upload when the whole damn thing is done.

By: Karlos the Jackal

Karlos the Jackal — Wed, 07 May 2008 03:39:33 -0800

STATUS UPDATE~!

After a small setback I am back on track; the seed tracks have been sent out to the first two people and the game is officially afoot!

The only people who are currently "in the queue" are those who have sent me a MeFi Mail about this. If you have not, you can still do so -- I'll let new people join through the end of May.

By: uncleozzy

uncleozzy — Wed, 07 May 2008 05:40:12 -0800

Best news of the morning. Rock on, Karlos.

By: uncleozzy

uncleozzy — Mon, 19 May 2008 08:26:42 -0800

So... what's the progress looking like on this thing?

By: Karlos the Jackal

Karlos the Jackal — Tue, 20 May 2008 02:50:07 -0800

I would call the pace "deliberate."

I've got one completed submission and two people with current assignments.

I may increase the number of threads from 2 to 3 if I get too impatient; on the other hand, it's not like there's an actual deadline.

By: uncleozzy

uncleozzy — Tue, 20 May 2008 05:44:30 -0800

Ah, ever the diplomat. "Deliberate." Maybe if we increase rations, we can raise the pace to "moderate" without breaking a wagon wheel.

By: bunnytricks

bunnytricks — Tue, 20 May 2008 10:43:41 -0800

Two weeks and only one track to show for it? Does it really take that long to record a four minute track that'll be buried underneath a couple dozen others?

By: burnmp3s

burnmp3s — Tue, 20 May 2008 11:23:38 -0800

Is there any way to shock someone with a cattle prod over the internet? If so, try that.