Metafilter is.... June 12, 2008 12:44 PM Subscribe
Earnest Opinion.
(far from news, dangerously close to scurrilous).
(far from news, dangerously close to scurrilous).
If we try a little bit, we're only a eensy bit away from becoming scurrilous.
posted by Dave Faris at 12:47 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by Dave Faris at 12:47 PM on June 12, 2008
I don't care how clever your goddamn 2x2 matrix is, don't resize my browser.
posted by GuyZero at 12:47 PM on June 12, 2008 [20 favorites]
posted by GuyZero at 12:47 PM on June 12, 2008 [20 favorites]
Anytime someone complains about NewsFilter, we should post this link.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:48 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:48 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
Their rollover says:
posted by ericb at 12:49 PM on June 12, 2008
MetaFilter: "Random people can blog about anything they want; why anybody reads it may be the Web's greatest mystery."Well, Matt Pressman and Keenan Mayo, you are just two way-cool dudes. BTW -- who the fuck are you?
posted by ericb at 12:49 PM on June 12, 2008
Metafilter: Why anyone reads it may be the web's greatest mystery.
posted by bondcliff at 12:49 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by bondcliff at 12:49 PM on June 12, 2008
Metafilter: Slightly more opinionated than Michelle Malkin
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:51 PM on June 12, 2008 [10 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:51 PM on June 12, 2008 [10 favorites]
Metafilter: Less of a news site than Stuff White People Like.
posted by box at 12:54 PM on June 12, 2008 [6 favorites]
posted by box at 12:54 PM on June 12, 2008 [6 favorites]
Yeah, I can't get at this either. Color me confused.
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:58 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by cortex (staff) at 12:58 PM on June 12, 2008
It resized my window. My opinion, earnestly held, is that Vanity Fair is worse than Hitler and that we should crush their web morons, see them driven before us, and hear the lamentations of their women.
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:59 PM on June 12, 2008 [9 favorites]
posted by ROU_Xenophobe at 12:59 PM on June 12, 2008 [9 favorites]
Firefox needs to block browser resizing like it blocks popups. Except those snopes.com popups. If I had more Javascript knowledge I'd try to Greasemonkey a snopes.com cleaner, but they seem to have a few different kinds and they're tricky and obfuscated enough that it's not even immediately clear exactly how they work.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 1:00 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 1:00 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
why anybody reads it may be the Web's greatest mystery
Funny, that's what I think about Vanity Fair.
posted by Miko at 1:02 PM on June 12, 2008 [16 favorites]
Funny, that's what I think about Vanity Fair.
posted by Miko at 1:02 PM on June 12, 2008 [16 favorites]
Too close to Michelle Malkin for my tastes.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:03 PM on June 12, 2008 [5 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:03 PM on June 12, 2008 [5 favorites]
Great, now I have another reason to hate Vanity Fair. I'd wipe my ass with copies of their dead-tree mag but that means I'd actually have to buy it and touch it. Daily Kos is more earnest? The Free Republic? What the fuck!? I don't think they actually spent much time on any of the sites they're rating.
posted by loquacious at 1:03 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by loquacious at 1:03 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
Earnest opinion?
These aren't opinions! Don't they know that I'm. Always. Right?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:03 PM on June 12, 2008
These aren't opinions! Don't they know that I'm. Always. Right?
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:03 PM on June 12, 2008
Firefox needs to block browser resizing like it blocks popups. Except those snopes.com popups. If I had more Javascript knowledge I'd try to Greasemonkey a snopes.com cleaner, but they seem to have a few different kinds and they're tricky and obfuscated enough that it's not even immediately clear exactly how they work.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 4:00 PM on June 12
You can block that, yeah.
1. Edit -> Preferences -> Content
2. Click "Advanced" at the right of "Enable Javascript"
3. Remove the check from "Move or resize windows"
4. Praise the Fox!
posted by splice at 1:03 PM on June 12, 2008 [27 favorites]
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 4:00 PM on June 12
You can block that, yeah.
1. Edit -> Preferences -> Content
2. Click "Advanced" at the right of "Enable Javascript"
3. Remove the check from "Move or resize windows"
4. Praise the Fox!
posted by splice at 1:03 PM on June 12, 2008 [27 favorites]
Metafilter: measures high in both snark and community, represented by the invisible 3rd and 4th dimensional axes not pictured. Once you factor in that 4th axis, we come out damn close to the lolcats.
Vanity Fair: pretending to be relevant by commenting on the relevancy of others.
posted by Tehanu at 1:04 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
Vanity Fair: pretending to be relevant by commenting on the relevancy of others.
posted by Tehanu at 1:04 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
I don't think we should have any more comments on this - it's ruining the mystery.
posted by panboi at 1:04 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by panboi at 1:04 PM on June 12, 2008
Apparently, Vanity Fair's Websense filter was set up over a weekend by Nick Douglas, with Calcanis delivering the beer TMZ bought and the pizza Gothamist chipped in for.
posted by dw at 1:04 PM on June 12, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by dw at 1:04 PM on June 12, 2008 [3 favorites]
Don't they know that I'm. Always. Right?
No. Actually, more often than not you are WRONG!
; ) I keed, I keed.
posted by ericb at 1:07 PM on June 12, 2008
No. Actually, more often than not you are WRONG!
; ) I keed, I keed.
posted by ericb at 1:07 PM on June 12, 2008
I smell a GrudgeMatchSmackDownCageFest.
Matt, Jess and Cortex (save the English guy for a spare in case Matt loses his glasses) versus Pressman, Mayo and 3 of their coke-addled interns.
My money is on Team Meef.
posted by Dizzy at 1:08 PM on June 12, 2008
Matt, Jess and Cortex (save the English guy for a spare in case Matt loses his glasses) versus Pressman, Mayo and 3 of their coke-addled interns.
My money is on Team Meef.
posted by Dizzy at 1:08 PM on June 12, 2008
Their rollover says:
MetaFilter: "Random people can blog about anything they want; why anybody reads it may be the Web's greatest mystery."
I am totally getting a shirt that says "Random Person" right across the front.
posted by grateful at 1:08 PM on June 12, 2008 [5 favorites]
MetaFilter: "Random people can blog about anything they want; why anybody reads it may be the Web's greatest mystery."
I am totally getting a shirt that says "Random Person" right across the front.
posted by grateful at 1:08 PM on June 12, 2008 [5 favorites]
So mefi is more "opinion" than Littlegreenfootballs, Michelle Malkin, Atrios, and Kos.
This word you keep using, I do not think it means what you think it means.
posted by dersins at 1:08 PM on June 12, 2008 [10 favorites]
This word you keep using, I do not think it means what you think it means.
posted by dersins at 1:08 PM on June 12, 2008 [10 favorites]
1. Edit -> Preferences -> Content
2. Click "Advanced" at the right of "Enable Javascript"
3. Remove the check from "Move or resize windows"
4. Praise the Fox!
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
posted by dersins at 1:09 PM on June 12, 2008 [3 favorites]
2. Click "Advanced" at the right of "Enable Javascript"
3. Remove the check from "Move or resize windows"
4. Praise the Fox!
THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU
posted by dersins at 1:09 PM on June 12, 2008 [3 favorites]
Metafilter: Way less earnest than The Sartorialist.
posted by the littlest brussels sprout at 1:12 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by the littlest brussels sprout at 1:12 PM on June 12, 2008
For those who are confused, it is a big graphical coordinate chart (like that XKCD fruit graph that stupid, rotten idiots who don't appreciate the glory of the grapefruit thought was funny) called the VANITY FAIR Blogopticon, plotting various websites from "News" to "Opinion" on the Y axis and from "Scurrilous" to "Earnest" on the X axis. Metafilter was deemed totally Opinion and just on the Earnest side of zero on the X axis. It is not as stupid as some no-class fucker denigrating the noble and mighty grapefruit, but almost.
posted by nanojath at 1:14 PM on June 12, 2008 [4 favorites]
posted by nanojath at 1:14 PM on June 12, 2008 [4 favorites]
Sweet, thanks, no more dealing with that bullshit.
Firefox: It's like open source, but not annoying!
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 1:16 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
Firefox: It's like open source, but not annoying!
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 1:16 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
Metafilter: Wedged Between Arianna Huffington and Michelle Malkin in an Angry Threesome
posted by WPW at 1:17 PM on June 12, 2008 [12 favorites]
posted by WPW at 1:17 PM on June 12, 2008 [12 favorites]
Has It's Raining Florence Henderson taken the sockpuppet "Random People" yet?
posted by Cranberry at 1:17 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by Cranberry at 1:17 PM on June 12, 2008
Instanpundit: University of Tennessee law professor Glenn Reynolds's popular libertarian bull____. (4 letters)
posted by Armitage Shanks at 1:19 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by Armitage Shanks at 1:19 PM on June 12, 2008
Ugh, I just saw that you can mouse over the graphical website icons for little "explanations" of the sites, e.g. Metafilter is "Random people can blog about anything they want." They claim "only Richard Pryor" is as funny as "Stuff White People Like." Putting that piece of crap into the same league as Richard Pryor makes me want to do that oranges trick from The Grifters to the people who wrote this. But with grapefruit.
posted by nanojath at 1:23 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by nanojath at 1:23 PM on June 12, 2008
MetaFilter is slightly more difficult than a watermelon, slightly less tasty than a pineapple.
posted by Wolfdog at 1:23 PM on June 12, 2008 [5 favorites]
posted by Wolfdog at 1:23 PM on June 12, 2008 [5 favorites]
Metafilter: random people blogging about anything they want, except themselves or their friends.
How anyone shows such restraint may be the Web's greatest mystery.
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 1:24 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
How anyone shows such restraint may be the Web's greatest mystery.
posted by fantabulous timewaster at 1:24 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
MetaFilter: "Random people can blog about anything they want; why anybody reads it may be the Web's greatest mystery."
because knowing what to expect and why one should expect it is a lot less interesting and awfully old-media-fashioned
posted by pyramid termite at 1:26 PM on June 12, 2008
because knowing what to expect and why one should expect it is a lot less interesting and awfully old-media-fashioned
posted by pyramid termite at 1:26 PM on June 12, 2008
See, I was going to say this was presented amusingly, if mistakenly, and that it reminded me of the fondly-remembered Filler column that Suck.com (RIP) used to do (and how heartwarming, really, that Terry Colon created at least two of the logos on that chart) ...but then I looked at the fruit graph that nanojath linked to, and: green apples tastier than red apples? FUCK THAT NOISE.
posted by kittyprecious at 1:26 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by kittyprecious at 1:26 PM on June 12, 2008
Wait, I see a lot of the same posts on Boing Boing and MetaFilter. Does that mean that if someone FPPs a $1000 steampunk keyboard and we constantly slather about Little Brother, we magically become news?
posted by Gucky at 1:28 PM on June 12, 2008 [4 favorites]
posted by Gucky at 1:28 PM on June 12, 2008 [4 favorites]
So what I'm getting from this is that "opinion" and "news" are supposed to be poles on a continuum, and that they're using that as an axis rather than a continuum from "news" to "not actually about news one way or the other, what the fuck, why is news presumed to be a determining component in your analysis of a community websites, do you ever leave the house"?
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:30 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:30 PM on June 12, 2008
I can believe that the Free Republic is more earnest than Metafilter.
Those assholes really believe that shit.
posted by three blind mice at 1:31 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
Those assholes really believe that shit.
posted by three blind mice at 1:31 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
I think they've totally underestimated the number over stick-up-their-butts over-earnest people in this site.
posted by Artw at 1:33 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Artw at 1:33 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Well this was certainly worth $5.
posted by Random Person at 1:34 PM on June 12, 2008 [18 favorites]
posted by Random Person at 1:34 PM on June 12, 2008 [18 favorites]
Malkin is not scurrilious?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:34 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:34 PM on June 12, 2008
You guys do realize that posting bullshit "data" like this is just link-pandering, don't you? And we've fallen neatly into their trap.
posted by Dave Faris at 1:34 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by Dave Faris at 1:34 PM on June 12, 2008
Flagged as...
Wait, can I flag an external site?
FLAGGED AS CRAP
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:34 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Wait, can I flag an external site?
FLAGGED AS CRAP
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:34 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Sometimes it's just more fun to let your hair down and be used, Dave.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:36 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:36 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
So you're saying that if we were less earnest, this would be more newsworthy?
posted by Dave Faris at 1:46 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by Dave Faris at 1:46 PM on June 12, 2008
Or that if we could do a good Ernest impression, we might get on the news.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:47 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:47 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
Yeah, it's tough to be actually insulted when they so clearly have no idea what they are talking about. A blog where any random person can say whatever they want? Why would anyone read that? That has nothing to do with MetaFilter, of course, but the point is valid.
posted by team lowkey at 1:47 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by team lowkey at 1:47 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Sometimes it's just more fun to let your hair down and be used, Dave.
Just remember to close the blinds first.
posted by lysistrata at 1:48 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Just remember to close the blinds first.
posted by lysistrata at 1:48 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
You guys do realize that posting bullshit "data" like this is just link-pandering, don't you? And we've fallen neatly into their trap.
It's a diabolical plot! No, it's just a graph! *ducks*
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:50 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
It's a diabolical plot! No, it's just a graph! *ducks*
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 1:50 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
Or that if we could do a good Ernest impression, we might get on the news.
I must have watched Ernest Goes to Camp a thousand times when I was a kid which is terrible, yes, but I was a horny pubescent girl and there were boys in it.
posted by lysistrata at 1:51 PM on June 12, 2008
I must have watched Ernest Goes to Camp a thousand times when I was a kid which is terrible, yes, but I was a horny pubescent girl and there were boys in it.
posted by lysistrata at 1:51 PM on June 12, 2008
Wait a minute... are they saying that Michelle Malkin is more earnest and less opinionated than us?! Are they actually suggesting that LGF and Stuff White People Like are closer to news than us!?
Am I high? I must be high or drunk or something, because, well, just because!
This is just open and unabashed lunacy.
posted by quin at 1:52 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Am I high? I must be high or drunk or something, because, well, just because!
This is just open and unabashed lunacy.
posted by quin at 1:52 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
If we assign Tasty/Untasty to Opinion/News, and Difficult/Easy to Earnest/Scurrilous, we discover that Metafilter is actually a lemon.
posted by zamboni at 1:55 PM on June 12, 2008 [3 favorites]
posted by zamboni at 1:55 PM on June 12, 2008 [3 favorites]
Sometimes it's just more fun to let your hair down and be used, Dave.
That's ... what ... she ... said ...?
Can I make that joke? Oh fuck it. Sweater stuffers! Sweater stuffers! Sweater stuf...
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:59 PM on June 12, 2008
That's ... what ... she ... said ...?
Can I make that joke? Oh fuck it. Sweater stuffers! Sweater stuffers! Sweater stuf...
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 1:59 PM on June 12, 2008
I must have watched Ernest Goes to Camp a thousand times when I was a kid which is terrible, yes, but I was a horny pubescent girl and there were boys in it.
I watched it over and over because I thought it was hilarious. Also when he sings to the turtle, I am sad.
posted by Tehanu at 1:59 PM on June 12, 2008
I watched it over and over because I thought it was hilarious. Also when he sings to the turtle, I am sad.
posted by Tehanu at 1:59 PM on June 12, 2008
I watched it over and over because I thought it was hilarious. Also when he sings to the turtle, I am sad.
Aww, I totally forgot about that song! I do remember though that after I saw it the first time I ran around outside yelling, "I am Josef Mengele!" with no clue who he was. Neighbors must have thought I was very special.
posted by lysistrata at 2:15 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Aww, I totally forgot about that song! I do remember though that after I saw it the first time I ran around outside yelling, "I am Josef Mengele!" with no clue who he was. Neighbors must have thought I was very special.
posted by lysistrata at 2:15 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Yeah, it's tough to be actually insulted when they so clearly have no idea what they are talking about.
You're just not trying hard enough.
posted by aubilenon at 2:26 PM on June 12, 2008
You're just not trying hard enough.
posted by aubilenon at 2:26 PM on June 12, 2008
So let's say that I created a similar chart, except with magazines. Would it hurt VF's feelings more to say that they were vapid and banal, or just to leave them off entirely?
posted by box at 2:28 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
posted by box at 2:28 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
It resized my window
Is this something I would need a browser that can't open links in new tabs to understand?
posted by emelenjr at 2:28 PM on June 12, 2008
Is this something I would need a browser that can't open links in new tabs to understand?
posted by emelenjr at 2:28 PM on June 12, 2008
We are more scurrilous than Malkin? It is to laugh.
Meanwhile, these douches stole the idea from New York magazine anyway.
posted by CunningLinguist at 2:33 PM on June 12, 2008
Meanwhile, these douches stole the idea from New York magazine anyway.
posted by CunningLinguist at 2:33 PM on June 12, 2008
I just like to say "Scurrilous." Scurrilous scurrilous scurrilous.
(Hey, now that you mention it, "Mengele" 's kinda fun too...)
posted by nebulawindphone at 2:37 PM on June 12, 2008
(Hey, now that you mention it, "Mengele" 's kinda fun too...)
posted by nebulawindphone at 2:37 PM on June 12, 2008
1. Edit -> Preferences -> Content
2. Click "Advanced" at the right of "Enable Javascript"
3. Remove the check from "Move or resize windows"
4. Praise the Fox!
Funny enough, I thought I already had that accomplished, but it turns out you have to uncheck the boxes, not check them all like I thought. I guess I never actually read the instructions there.
posted by puke & cry at 2:42 PM on June 12, 2008
2. Click "Advanced" at the right of "Enable Javascript"
3. Remove the check from "Move or resize windows"
4. Praise the Fox!
Funny enough, I thought I already had that accomplished, but it turns out you have to uncheck the boxes, not check them all like I thought. I guess I never actually read the instructions there.
posted by puke & cry at 2:42 PM on June 12, 2008
Who cares where MeFi is on the chart? I mean, they just picked the closest open space to plonk down the logo on the chart. If they were using little tiny bullets instead of giant icons, I might believe they put some actual thought into locating blogs at the appropriate points on the graph.
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:47 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:47 PM on June 12, 2008
Instanpundit: University of Tennessee law professor Glenn Reynolds's popular libertarian bull____. (4 letters)
Does Reynolds still support the war in Iraq? Cuz I'm pretty sure having a trillion-dollar war fought for dubious reasons and paid for by debasing the national currency isn't exactly on the libertarian platform this year.
posted by Avenger at 2:49 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
Does Reynolds still support the war in Iraq? Cuz I'm pretty sure having a trillion-dollar war fought for dubious reasons and paid for by debasing the national currency isn't exactly on the libertarian platform this year.
posted by Avenger at 2:49 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
BTW, aren't the definitions of scurrilous and news somewhat antipodal? Perhaps they meant to imbue the word with a new definition such as tongue in cheek?
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:49 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by BrotherCaine at 2:49 PM on June 12, 2008
This is going to be hilarious in four years. And quite scurrilous in its own right.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 2:50 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 2:50 PM on June 12, 2008
I like that finally, in some small way, Vanity Fair has recognised my contributions to humankind.
posted by turgid dahlia at 2:54 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by turgid dahlia at 2:54 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
People, people... why fling poo and rail against the site... we're bigger than that.
posted by Kattullus at 3:08 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Kattullus at 3:08 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
man, what happened in late April? Big election story?
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:19 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:19 PM on June 12, 2008
So election was a typo, then.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:34 PM on June 12, 2008 [5 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:34 PM on June 12, 2008 [5 favorites]
Lordy, look what a push-up bra and pregnancy does to Angelina Jolies boobies.
posted by Artw at 4:07 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by Artw at 4:07 PM on June 12, 2008
More traffic at other sites? Big Deal. Perhaps that proves that we mefites are elite. Didn't you always suspect it?
posted by Cranberry at 4:17 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by Cranberry at 4:17 PM on June 12, 2008
You know why we didn't wind up in scurrilous, right? Cause we don't feed the scurrils!
*rim shot*
The trolls, maybe, but not the scurrils...<>
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:21 PM on June 12, 2008
*rim shot*
The trolls, maybe, but not the scurrils...<>
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:21 PM on June 12, 2008
Lordy, look what a push-up bra and pregnancy does to Angelina Jolies boobies.
And MetaFilter's.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:23 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
And MetaFilter's.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:23 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
"I don’t play accurately - any one can play accurately - but I play with wonderful expression."
Don't any of you know the vital Importance of Being Earnest?
posted by h00py at 4:30 PM on June 12, 2008
Don't any of you know the vital Importance of Being Earnest?
posted by h00py at 4:30 PM on June 12, 2008
The terms, scurrilous and earnest, express a strict opposition between which bacon appears to be suspended.
Now, if those terms are the expression of a logical opposition stated as a pair of negatives, they can be transformed by a simple inversion into the same polar opposites but expressed positively. That is, the not-scurrilous is, according to the logic of a certain kind of expansion, just another way of expressing the term earnest, and the not-earnest is, simply, scurrilous. The expansion to which I am referring is called a Klein group when employed mathematically and has various other designations, among them the Piaget group, when used by structuralists involved in mapping operations within the human sciences. By means of this logical expansion a set of binaries is transformed into a quaternary field which both mirrors the original opposition and at the same time opens it. It becomes a logically expanded field.
Another way of saying this is that even though bacon may be reduced to what is in the Klein group the neuter term of the not-scurrilous plus the not-earnest, there is no reason not to imagine an opposite term - one that would be both earnest and scurrilous - which within this schema is called the complex.
Because it was ideologically prohibited, the complex had remained excluded from what might be called the beginning of ceiling-cat-posts. Our culture has not before been able to think the complex, although Metafilter have thought this term with great ease. Bacon and lolcats are both scurrilous and earnest. Which is not to say that we are an early, or a degenerate, or a variant form. We are part of a universe or cultural space in which bacon is simply another part - not somehow, as historicist minds would have it, the same.
posted by xod at 4:42 PM on June 12, 2008
Now, if those terms are the expression of a logical opposition stated as a pair of negatives, they can be transformed by a simple inversion into the same polar opposites but expressed positively. That is, the not-scurrilous is, according to the logic of a certain kind of expansion, just another way of expressing the term earnest, and the not-earnest is, simply, scurrilous. The expansion to which I am referring is called a Klein group when employed mathematically and has various other designations, among them the Piaget group, when used by structuralists involved in mapping operations within the human sciences. By means of this logical expansion a set of binaries is transformed into a quaternary field which both mirrors the original opposition and at the same time opens it. It becomes a logically expanded field.
Another way of saying this is that even though bacon may be reduced to what is in the Klein group the neuter term of the not-scurrilous plus the not-earnest, there is no reason not to imagine an opposite term - one that would be both earnest and scurrilous - which within this schema is called the complex.
Because it was ideologically prohibited, the complex had remained excluded from what might be called the beginning of ceiling-cat-posts. Our culture has not before been able to think the complex, although Metafilter have thought this term with great ease. Bacon and lolcats are both scurrilous and earnest. Which is not to say that we are an early, or a degenerate, or a variant form. We are part of a universe or cultural space in which bacon is simply another part - not somehow, as historicist minds would have it, the same.
posted by xod at 4:42 PM on June 12, 2008
1. Edit -> Preferences -> Content
For me, this is 1. Tools -> Options -> Content, in case anyone else was puzzled by the instructions. And I add my thanks!
posted by languagehat at 5:17 PM on June 12, 2008
For me, this is 1. Tools -> Options -> Content, in case anyone else was puzzled by the instructions. And I add my thanks!
posted by languagehat at 5:17 PM on June 12, 2008
Yeah. I sometimes make a comment without reading the rest. I usually always regret it.
posted by Dave Faris at 5:43 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by Dave Faris at 5:43 PM on June 12, 2008
the positioning and selection of sites on that chart seems rather arbitrary. "the sartorialist" is the most earnest blog the author could think of and boingboing is more news than mefi? the author apparently blocked out all cory "I mention my novel is so awesome every hour" doctorow posts and forgot to realize that comments about fashion choices are personal opinions, not news. unless he spots a hippo wearing a scarf.
posted by krautland at 5:48 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by krautland at 5:48 PM on June 12, 2008
"Earnest opinion" is dead on, actually.
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 6:03 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by Mr. President Dr. Steve Elvis America at 6:03 PM on June 12, 2008
All those sites in the bottom left are exactly the same.
posted by smackfu at 6:30 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by smackfu at 6:30 PM on June 12, 2008
Vanity Fair sounded absolutely bitter about Metafilter, considering they were upbeat about the tabloids and right wing bloggers with assmarks on their faces.
posted by Brian B. at 6:44 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Brian B. at 6:44 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Metafilter: Wry commentary is best delivered by a busty anchor chick.
posted by lukemeister at 7:38 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by lukemeister at 7:38 PM on June 12, 2008
Wry commentary is best delivered by a busty anchor chick.
Everything I Needed to Know I Learned by Watching Telemundo.
posted by jonmc at 8:02 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Everything I Needed to Know I Learned by Watching Telemundo.
posted by jonmc at 8:02 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Perhaps that proves that we mefites are elite.
I'm here. Just how elite could we be?
posted by jonmc at 8:08 PM on June 12, 2008
I'm here. Just how elite could we be?
posted by jonmc at 8:08 PM on June 12, 2008
Metafilter: Where the elite meet to beat the salmon meat.
posted by lukemeister at 8:12 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by lukemeister at 8:12 PM on June 12, 2008
Anyone want to share the good news?
That domain is blocked where you are.
posted by A dead Quaker at 9:14 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
That domain is blocked where you are.
posted by A dead Quaker at 9:14 PM on June 12, 2008 [2 favorites]
Apropos of nothing, that particular 2-axis representation appears to be called a Voice Map.
I first came across it in this PDF describing a recent BBC website redesign. I don't know if the wanky design agency made up that term or not.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 9:34 PM on June 12, 2008
I first came across it in this PDF describing a recent BBC website redesign. I don't know if the wanky design agency made up that term or not.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 9:34 PM on June 12, 2008
Yeah, "earnest opinion" is precisely correct. The only thing that's strange is that things like Michelle Malkin's blog made it onto the "earnest" side of the graph. It's got to be satire, I'm convinced of it...
posted by voltairemodern at 9:44 PM on June 12, 2008
posted by voltairemodern at 9:44 PM on June 12, 2008
Apropos of nothing, that particular 2-axis representation appears to be called a Voice Map.
What? How is it any different from a Magic Quadrant or any of the bajillion 2x2 comparison matrices that litter business school text books? Those wankers made that stuff up.
posted by GuyZero at 10:07 PM on June 12, 2008
What? How is it any different from a Magic Quadrant or any of the bajillion 2x2 comparison matrices that litter business school text books? Those wankers made that stuff up.
posted by GuyZero at 10:07 PM on June 12, 2008
How is it any different from a Magic Quadrant or any of the bajillion 2x2 comparison matrices that litter business school text books?
It uses Web 2.0!
posted by Artw at 10:12 PM on June 12, 2008
It uses Web 2.0!
posted by Artw at 10:12 PM on June 12, 2008
Random? Random! By God I am not a random person. I sent in five dollars.
I want to know how Malkin is more news like than us? I mean if semi-circle = crescent = sekrit Islamo-fascist leanings is news then Robert Anton Wilson's Illuminatus is the McNeil Lehrer report.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 10:29 PM on June 12, 2008
I want to know how Malkin is more news like than us? I mean if semi-circle = crescent = sekrit Islamo-fascist leanings is news then Robert Anton Wilson's Illuminatus is the McNeil Lehrer report.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 10:29 PM on June 12, 2008
As I put this together I was thinking Holy Fucking Shit.
Then I added TMZ. That was kind of depressing.
Then I realized TMZ was an AOL creation and that the lowest common denominator of the web probably got their home page redirected there some time ago and haven't bothered to change it. OK, that's still depressing but slightly better.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 10:48 PM on June 12, 2008
Then I added TMZ. That was kind of depressing.
Then I realized TMZ was an AOL creation and that the lowest common denominator of the web probably got their home page redirected there some time ago and haven't bothered to change it. OK, that's still depressing but slightly better.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 10:48 PM on June 12, 2008
I'm here. Just how elite could we be?
Very, sir. For example, you are too elite to like Radiohead or Arcade Fire, to pull two examples of bands I generally like.
Metafilter is all hipsters.
Metafilter is all elitists.
We would do better to stop denying these things.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 10:51 PM on June 12, 2008
Very, sir. For example, you are too elite to like Radiohead or Arcade Fire, to pull two examples of bands I generally like.
Metafilter is all hipsters.
Metafilter is all elitists.
We would do better to stop denying these things.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 10:51 PM on June 12, 2008
I don't own a pair of bluejeans.
Christ, what an elitist.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 11:06 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
Christ, what an elitist.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 11:06 PM on June 12, 2008 [1 favorite]
I don't own a pair of bluejeans.
Nor I. Like LBJ, I need the space.
posted by Wolof at 11:38 PM on June 12, 2008
Nor I. Like LBJ, I need the space.
posted by Wolof at 11:38 PM on June 12, 2008
Erm, but it's possible to be earnest and scurrilous at the same time, so the x-axis doesn't make any sense. And the y-axis seems suited to news-related sites which feature news and/or opinion pieces. I'm not really sure how a site which over the last 24 hours has linked to human ovulation captured on camera, a photographer that uses over exposure to populate his cities with smoky spectres, and videos of exotic birds can be measured on that scale, or why you'd want to try.
As for the discussions, they're rarely particularly opinionated. It's more "here's something cool on the web", "here's a joke that relates to that thing", "another joke", "oh I know about about this thing, here are my thoughts" and occasionally "I made this thing, here are my thoughts".
"Random people can blog about anything they want; why anybody reads it may be the Web's greatest mystery" strikes me as a comment from someone that hasn't actually read Metafilter. For people that only really use the front page, it's not so much a case of reading as it is having your curiosity piqued.
So basically, to quote a Public Enemy song title: "Leave this off your fuckin charts".
posted by nthdegx at 12:25 AM on June 13, 2008
As for the discussions, they're rarely particularly opinionated. It's more "here's something cool on the web", "here's a joke that relates to that thing", "another joke", "oh I know about about this thing, here are my thoughts" and occasionally "I made this thing, here are my thoughts".
"Random people can blog about anything they want; why anybody reads it may be the Web's greatest mystery" strikes me as a comment from someone that hasn't actually read Metafilter. For people that only really use the front page, it's not so much a case of reading as it is having your curiosity piqued.
So basically, to quote a Public Enemy song title: "Leave this off your fuckin charts".
posted by nthdegx at 12:25 AM on June 13, 2008
Can someone explain to me how the fuck scurrilous and earnest are polar opposites?
(Pardon me for being scurrilous.)
posted by Caduceus at 12:27 AM on June 13, 2008
(Pardon me for being scurrilous.)
posted by Caduceus at 12:27 AM on June 13, 2008
I just like to say "Scurrilous." Scurrilous scurrilous scurrilous.
(Hey, now that you mention it, "Mengele" 's kinda fun too...)
posted by nebulawindphone at 2:37 PM on June 12 [+] [!]
My new favorite word this week is veep-vetter. Such a playful-sounding word. It raises an image of a Road Runneresque creature that zips around between senators and generals and goes "veep veep!" when coming across someone acceptable.
posted by Anything at 2:43 AM on June 13, 2008 [3 favorites]
(Hey, now that you mention it, "Mengele" 's kinda fun too...)
posted by nebulawindphone at 2:37 PM on June 12 [+] [!]
My new favorite word this week is veep-vetter. Such a playful-sounding word. It raises an image of a Road Runneresque creature that zips around between senators and generals and goes "veep veep!" when coming across someone acceptable.
posted by Anything at 2:43 AM on June 13, 2008 [3 favorites]
I'm here. Just how elite could we be?
Ihate love to burst your bubbles, but you're not exactly Joe Everydude, Jon. No matter how much bad beer and junk food you eat.
Joe Everydude doesn't know how to write a complicated thought down. Joe Everydude doesn't have your knowledge of modern music from nearly every musical style or subculture. Joe Everydude can barely boot a computer, much less own one.
Moreover, Joe Everydude - like the Noble Savage - is entirely a myth, and an externalized figment of our imagination for some lost ideal that never existed.
And if Joe Everydude actually existed today, he'd listen to Top 40 rap and R&B as opposed to The Boss. He'd drive a heavily financed truck or SUV (possibly lowered, and rarely taken off road or used to haul things) or an import sedan or sportscar. He'd shop (and possibly work) at Wal-Mart, and he'd be much less likely to work in a factory or on construction and much more likely to work at a cellular phone store or other major chain retail location. Joe Everydude drinks Budweiser, Coors and sometimes PBR, but not Rolling Rock. And even the Budweiser is probably too tony for Joe Everydude.
He probably wouldn't be caught dead working in a bookstore or record store. And Joe Everydude probably wouldn't like MetaFilter.
You only do yourself a grave and stupendous disservice, Jon. I know Joe Everydude. Joe Everydude is extremely boring, and thankfully you aren't him.
posted by loquacious at 3:01 AM on June 13, 2008 [4 favorites]
I
Joe Everydude doesn't know how to write a complicated thought down. Joe Everydude doesn't have your knowledge of modern music from nearly every musical style or subculture. Joe Everydude can barely boot a computer, much less own one.
Moreover, Joe Everydude - like the Noble Savage - is entirely a myth, and an externalized figment of our imagination for some lost ideal that never existed.
And if Joe Everydude actually existed today, he'd listen to Top 40 rap and R&B as opposed to The Boss. He'd drive a heavily financed truck or SUV (possibly lowered, and rarely taken off road or used to haul things) or an import sedan or sportscar. He'd shop (and possibly work) at Wal-Mart, and he'd be much less likely to work in a factory or on construction and much more likely to work at a cellular phone store or other major chain retail location. Joe Everydude drinks Budweiser, Coors and sometimes PBR, but not Rolling Rock. And even the Budweiser is probably too tony for Joe Everydude.
He probably wouldn't be caught dead working in a bookstore or record store. And Joe Everydude probably wouldn't like MetaFilter.
You only do yourself a grave and stupendous disservice, Jon. I know Joe Everydude. Joe Everydude is extremely boring, and thankfully you aren't him.
posted by loquacious at 3:01 AM on June 13, 2008 [4 favorites]
If it's any consolation, Jon, you're as close to Joe Everydude as most of us white tower elitists ever get.
posted by Dave Faris at 3:17 AM on June 13, 2008
posted by Dave Faris at 3:17 AM on June 13, 2008
*rises from his slumber, approaches MetaFilter, inhales deeply*
Ahh... I love the smell of false dichotomy in the morning.
posted by Eideteker at 3:19 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Ahh... I love the smell of false dichotomy in the morning.
posted by Eideteker at 3:19 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
My new favorite word this week is veep-vetter
I hope that one of the elite can tell us how to say "Who vets the veep-vetter?" in Latin.
posted by lukemeister at 5:54 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
I hope that one of the elite can tell us how to say "Who vets the veep-vetter?" in Latin.
posted by lukemeister at 5:54 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
I read this entire thread. I don't know why. IT'S A MYSTERY!
posted by Life at Boulton Wynfevers at 6:15 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Life at Boulton Wynfevers at 6:15 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
For me, this is 1. Tools -> Options -> Content, in case anyone else was puzzled by the instructions. And I add my thanks!
Mmh, yeah... How'd that Edit -> Preferences get in there? It's not that for me either anyway.
Must be some hold-over from my phone rep days... It just rolled off my keyboard is what it is. Sorry for the confusion.
posted by splice at 10:09 AM on June 13, 2008
Mmh, yeah... How'd that Edit -> Preferences get in there? It's not that for me either anyway.
Must be some hold-over from my phone rep days... It just rolled off my keyboard is what it is. Sorry for the confusion.
posted by splice at 10:09 AM on June 13, 2008
New plan: rate blogs on a scale from Charizearnest to Squirtlous.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:28 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:28 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
why anybody reads it may be the Web's greatest mystery'
You're right, VF. We'd all be much better off reading stuff like this:
CELEBRITY
Madonnarama!
As she nears 50, Madonna is searching for her true self. Whisked to L.A. for an intensive interview session, Rich Cohen explores the pop idol’s evolution.
posted by jason's_planet at 10:55 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
You're right, VF. We'd all be much better off reading stuff like this:
CELEBRITY
Madonnarama!
As she nears 50, Madonna is searching for her true self. Whisked to L.A. for an intensive interview session, Rich Cohen explores the pop idol’s evolution.
posted by jason's_planet at 10:55 AM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
New plan: rate blogs on a scale from Charizearnest to Squirtlous.
Uhm, there really really needs to be an axis for how much they like Mudkips. Actually, that might be a useful metonym for discussing how much a site has or lacks the 4chan/Anonymous/SA/ED nature.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 12:00 PM on June 13, 2008
Uhm, there really really needs to be an axis for how much they like Mudkips. Actually, that might be a useful metonym for discussing how much a site has or lacks the 4chan/Anonymous/SA/ED nature.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 12:00 PM on June 13, 2008
So, what's with the Edit -> Preferences vs. Tools -> Options difference? I prefer the latter, but, a lot of times it's the former. Is this following some freedesktop.org standard? Is there some about:config setting?
posted by philomathoholic at 12:11 PM on June 13, 2008
posted by philomathoholic at 12:11 PM on June 13, 2008
I really wanna sockpuppet named Earnest Scurrilous. Or should it be Earnestly? Decisions... decisions...
posted by deborah at 12:15 PM on June 13, 2008
posted by deborah at 12:15 PM on June 13, 2008
I'd go with Ernest Lee Scurrilous, myself.
posted by Tehanu at 12:41 PM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by Tehanu at 12:41 PM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Why in the world are they so generous to Salon? I mean Salon today, which is not the same Salon we had a few years ago.
They don't make sites like they used to. These kids today blah blah blah...
posted by misha at 3:24 PM on June 13, 2008
They don't make sites like they used to. These kids today blah blah blah...
posted by misha at 3:24 PM on June 13, 2008
NEWS FLASH: The Blogopticon chart was cropped. There's more to see and it's here. (via)
posted by wendell at 4:44 PM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
posted by wendell at 4:44 PM on June 13, 2008 [1 favorite]
Scurrilous? More like Vanity Fair's scurrt.
No? Not eponysterical? C'mon...
posted by limeonaire at 9:12 PM on June 13, 2008
No? Not eponysterical? C'mon...
posted by limeonaire at 9:12 PM on June 13, 2008
So, what's with the Edit -> Preferences vs. Tools -> Options difference? I prefer the latter, but, a lot of times it's the former. Is this following some freedesktop.org standard? Is there some about:config setting?
Mac vs. PC, no?
posted by limeonaire at 9:13 PM on June 13, 2008
Mac vs. PC, no?
posted by limeonaire at 9:13 PM on June 13, 2008
I'm on Ubuntu, but I think you're on to something. My XP version of Firefox has Options, and the Ubuntu version has Preferences. I don't have Firefox installed on my Mac.
posted by philomathoholic at 1:10 AM on June 14, 2008
posted by philomathoholic at 1:10 AM on June 14, 2008
I really hate how the vertical and horizontal axis don't line up properly. Grr.
posted by oxford blue at 3:14 AM on June 14, 2008
posted by oxford blue at 3:14 AM on June 14, 2008
DO NOT FUCK WITH MY BROWSER WINDOW, BITCHES.
posted by DarlingBri at 9:10 AM on June 14, 2008
posted by DarlingBri at 9:10 AM on June 14, 2008
Hey, assholes, where the hell is catsinsinks.com? What has this world come to‽
posted by Devils Rancher at 2:22 PM on June 14, 2008
posted by Devils Rancher at 2:22 PM on June 14, 2008
"Random people can blog about anything they want; why anybody reads it may be the Web's greatest mystery."
I like Metafilter because it's motherfucking literary. And there is something appealing about its plain textness.
posted by plexi at 6:18 PM on June 14, 2008
I like Metafilter because it's motherfucking literary. And there is something appealing about its plain textness.
posted by plexi at 6:18 PM on June 14, 2008
Well, that's our copy right there, then:
Metafilter. Because it's motherfucking literary.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:21 AM on June 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
Metafilter. Because it's motherfucking literary.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:21 AM on June 15, 2008 [2 favorites]
Metafilter is all hipsters.
Metafilter is all elitists.
I can't wait to tell all the folks at work that I am not a geeky nerdgirl who can't dress. I am an elite hipster. Suck it, fashionistas!
Or is this one of those "the higher your user number, the lower your hipster elite quotient is" things?
posted by Gucky at 1:41 PM on June 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
Metafilter is all elitists.
I can't wait to tell all the folks at work that I am not a geeky nerdgirl who can't dress. I am an elite hipster. Suck it, fashionistas!
Or is this one of those "the higher your user number, the lower your hipster elite quotient is" things?
posted by Gucky at 1:41 PM on June 15, 2008 [1 favorite]
geeky nerdgirl who can't dress.
The funniest thing about calling people hipsters on the Internet is that whatever they say as evidence that they're not a hipster is usually in fact evidence for the opposite, especially because there's no real definition of hipster.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 3:09 PM on June 15, 2008
The funniest thing about calling people hipsters on the Internet is that whatever they say as evidence that they're not a hipster is usually in fact evidence for the opposite, especially because there's no real definition of hipster.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 3:09 PM on June 15, 2008
A real definition of hipster? That's easy. Hipsters are people who like things that I don't like, and the only conceivable reason is that they think it makes them appear cooler.
Or it's people who are really into to being fashionable, but, you know, not fashionable. Because that wouldn't be fashionable.
Fine. There's no real definition of hipster. But I can still mock them, right? Especially since no one self-identifies as one?
posted by team lowkey at 8:42 PM on June 15, 2008
Or it's people who are really into to being fashionable, but, you know, not fashionable. Because that wouldn't be fashionable.
Fine. There's no real definition of hipster. But I can still mock them, right? Especially since no one self-identifies as one?
posted by team lowkey at 8:42 PM on June 15, 2008
Aren't hipsters a sort of hip-related undergarment?
posted by oxford blue at 9:17 PM on June 15, 2008
posted by oxford blue at 9:17 PM on June 15, 2008
Aren't hipsters a sort of hip-related undergarment?
God, what an unhip thing to say.
Or, a hip thing to say. I'm not sure which.
*puts on socks and sandals, adjusts hipsters, places 4 more pens into plastic shirt-pocket pen holder*
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:53 PM on June 15, 2008
God, what an unhip thing to say.
Or, a hip thing to say. I'm not sure which.
*puts on socks and sandals, adjusts hipsters, places 4 more pens into plastic shirt-pocket pen holder*
posted by flapjax at midnite at 11:53 PM on June 15, 2008
I thought the Hipster was a rejected name for the Extruded Plastic Dingus.
posted by WPW at 4:24 AM on June 16, 2008
posted by WPW at 4:24 AM on June 16, 2008
When you put them on a chart like that, blogs look really stupid
posted by Mister_A at 11:57 AM on June 16, 2008
posted by Mister_A at 11:57 AM on June 16, 2008
When you put them on a chart like that, blogs look really stupid
Also when you don't.
posted by dersins at 12:58 PM on June 16, 2008
Also when you don't.
posted by dersins at 12:58 PM on June 16, 2008
Hey, Vanity Fair, I got an opinion for you ... right here.
posted by theredpen at 3:00 PM on June 16, 2008
posted by theredpen at 3:00 PM on June 16, 2008
And then I hold my crotch thusly.
posted by oxford blue at 8:55 AM on June 17, 2008
posted by oxford blue at 8:55 AM on June 17, 2008
Your attempts to make Metafilter appear more scurrilous are admirable.
posted by Dave Faris at 9:01 AM on June 17, 2008
posted by Dave Faris at 9:01 AM on June 17, 2008
So please you, Sir, we much regret
If we have failed in etiquette
Towards a man of rank so high —
We shall know better by and by.
posted by oxford blue at 6:29 PM on June 17, 2008
If we have failed in etiquette
Towards a man of rank so high —
We shall know better by and by.
posted by oxford blue at 6:29 PM on June 17, 2008
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posted by Ragma at 12:46 PM on June 12, 2008