Comments on: I am curious (podcast)

I am curious (podcast)

pjern — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 02:18:08 -0800

Just personal curiosity at work here- I noticed a reference elsewhere a few days ago to recording the upcoming podcast, which, unaccountably, cheered me up. (I look forward to the podcasts, because like as not they cover something interesting I didn't see in my normal perusals of the site.) So, what I got to wondering was ...

... how long does the post production take after you guys record the 'cast? What's the process, Matt? :) Or is it sitting locked away in a vault, waiting to be published in the dark of night, when the entrails that need be cast are ripened sufficiently?

By: Grither

Grither — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:35:37 -0800

How do you miss something if you are perusing the site?

I do not think that word means what you think it means.

pe·ruse /pəˈruz/
–verb (used with object), -rused, -rus·ing.
1. to read through with thoroughness or care: to peruse a report.
2. to read.
3. to survey or examine in detail.

By: Plutor

Plutor — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:53:57 -0800

VOCABULARY BURN

By: Plutor

Plutor — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:55:19 -0800

(In other news, I just learned that peruse has the opposite connotation that I always assumed. It means "carefully", not "casually".)

By: Grither

Grither — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 04:58:04 -0800

Hehe sorry, I just wanted an excuse to post a Princess Bride quote...and free edumacation for all!

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:13:49 -0800

To answer your question, pjern, the post-production is a rather time consuming affair. You see, they start with an excellent and very intelligible recording, one in which the moderator's voices are clearly audible and discernible, but must then spend hours (if not days) getting Matt to sound like he's about seven feet away from the mic with his head wrapped in a towel.

By: matthewr

matthewr — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:15:18 -0800

peruse verb
1 to read through (a book, magazine, etc) carefully.
2 to browse through something casually.
3 to examine or study (eg someone's face) attentively. perusal noun. peruser noun.
Source

(VOCABULARY COUNTER-BURN)

By: vacapinta

vacapinta — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:15:21 -0800

OED says Grither is wrong:

c. To read through or over; (generally) to read. In later use also: to browse, skim. Also occas. intr.
Modern dictionaries and usage guides, perh. influenced by the word's earlier history in English, have sometimes claimed that the only ‘correct’ usage is in reference to reading closely or thoroughly (cf. senses 4a, 4b). However, peruse has been a broad synonym for read since the 16th cent., encompassing both careful and cursory reading; Johnson defined and used it as such. The implication of leisureliness, cursoriness, or haste is therefore not a recent development, although it is usually found in less formal contexts and is less frequent in earlier use (see quot. 1589 for an early example). The specific sense of browsing or skimming emerged relatively recently, generally in ironic or humorous inversion of the formal sense of thoroughness. Cf. SCAN v. for a similar development and range of senses.

By: lukemeister

lukemeister — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:31:53 -0800

flapjax,
Matt's part is the audio equivalent of distressed furniture. I think it's supposed to appeal to steampunks.

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:32:48 -0800

There's usually somewhere between one and five days between the time we record and the time the podcast goes live. We try to record at a regular day and time, but the fact that we've both got really busy schedules means that sometimes that doesn't even happen. The last podcast was recorded Monday, I assume it will go up sometime this week. It's got a bunch of little parts that all need to be pasted together so I'm sure it will take "longer than usual" but there's no real usual. Once we record it, I'm out of the loop and as susprised as anyone to see it when it goes live.

By: that girl

that girl — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:57:18 -0800

Both scan and peruse have been diluted by the masses!

By: Grither

Grither — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 05:58:53 -0800

So according to OED and Chambers, the "later use" definition that is now popular among the internet age (also known as the WRONG definition) has now been added to the dictionary. Great to see them bowing to the illiteracy of today's youth. Sigh.

By: sveskemus

sveskemus — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:03:06 -0800

LOLPRESCRIPTIVISTS

By: Rock Steady

Rock Steady — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:10:19 -0800

Let's decimate the inflammable bastards!

By: lukemeister

lukemeister — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:16:48 -0800

Great to see them bowing to the illiteracy of today's youth.

Yeah, that was bad.

By: burnmp3s

burnmp3s — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:23:51 -0800

HI I'M ON METAFILTER AND I COULD PERUSE A PLATE OF BEANS

By: Grither

Grither — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 06:47:43 -0800

Yeah, that was bad.
posted by lukemeister

I love that the first definition on that site is:
What Michael Jackson told us he was all along.

By: cortex

cortex — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:02:28 -0800

By: languagehat

languagehat — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:04:17 -0800

By: dirtdirt

dirtdirt — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:09:32 -0800

Again we are shown that irony is an immutable force of nature - a law like gravity or thermodynamics.

Bad means bad, until it means good. Fine means excellent, until it means barely passable. Peruse means look closely until it means look half-assedly. La la la!

By: Kwine

Kwine — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:12:47 -0800

Just like a bead, I'll take you there!
Just like a bead to me!

By: Grither

Grither — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:37:14 -0800

I take it, then, you use bead to mean 'prayer'?
posted by languagehat

Look, just cause you've got "language" in your user name doesn't make you some kind of "expert" on the subject.

See, I'll show you that bead is obviously not an alternate word for....woah, wait a second.

Ok, so maybe it does. Whatever, leave Britney ALONE! Er, me....not Britney...

By: quin

quin — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:38:20 -0800

Peruse means "to read with thoroughness or care." If you peruse a book, you leave no page unturned. This makes sense when you consider the Middle English per use, meaning "to wear out or use up."

From the final and ultimately definitive source.

Suck it, OED.

By: Abiezer

Abiezer — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:40:17 -0800

It's all been downhill vocab-wise since the Anglo-Saxon of The Battle of Brunanburh.

By: Wolfdog

Wolfdog — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:57:06 -0800

If there's anything as tedious who are excited about grammar rules they learned in primary school and want to tell you about it all the time it's people who've figured out the first group of people are tedious and, as if they were the first ever to stumble over this utterly common sense discovery, insist on telling you about it all the time.

By: mathowie

mathowie — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 07:59:07 -0800

Usually it's a day, but this week has been bad other things constantly popping up. I'm hoping to finally get it done today. Plus I'll use that levelator app so at least it'll sound somewhat even and compressed.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:00:43 -0800

mathowie, you've derailed this vocabulary thread.

By: iamkimiam

iamkimiam — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:06:06 -0800

I don't see how either definition is a misuse of the word in the original post, but whatever. Flagged as fantastically excellent.

By: Fuzzy Skinner

Fuzzy Skinner — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:10:06 -0800

I always thought Matt recorded his part while bicycling.

By: kittyprecious

kittyprecious — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:26:32 -0800

I don't know why you guys are so down on Matt's part of the podcast, since I always picture Jess's vocals being recorded with someone randomly jabbing a microphone at her.

(Lovely voice, but I always have my iPod volume set to Matt's vocal level and...it's a study in contrasts.)

By: blue_beetle

blue_beetle — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:30:11 -0800

We're in a post-prescriptivist reality here people! Set your irregardless meter to cromulent!

By: Greg Nog

Greg Nog — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:32:17 -0800

Just like a bead, I'll take you there!
Just like a bead to me!

Sorry, but this change just sounds awkward; I'm gonna stick with the old word whenever possible. And thus, to me, they will always be known as "anal prayers".

By: rtha

rtha — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:43:54 -0800

I'm not a hardcore prescriptivist except when I'm really really cranky and/or undercaffeinated, but it's WHOA, dammit. Not Woah or Waoh or any other damn thing that kids are coming up with these days.

/off my lawn so I can eat my beans etc.

By: stet

stet — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:47:03 -0800

I'd like to comment that the word 'cleave' is its own antonym. It means both to split apart and to keep together. My wife taught me that. It's why I cleave to her.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 08:58:52 -0800

Peru's an interesting country, I think. I'd like to go there someday.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:22:47 -0800

Heh. Based on the podcasts, before I met her, I always thought that Jess had an incredibly aspirant voice. Whereas I sometimes find Matt too calming to listen to…

(Though the reason I don't generally listen to the podcast is because, frankly, I prefer to read things if given the choice. So I can peruse them at my leisure.)

By: cortex

cortex — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:32:14 -0800

Leisure actually means "tacky one-piece suit."

By: Grither

Grither — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:33:06 -0800

So "leisure suit" is redundant?

By: quonsar

quonsar — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:35:59 -0800

It means both to split apart and to keep together.

and thus we have cleavage.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:44:55 -0800

Hey, put down that cleaver, quonsar.

By: cortex

cortex — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:47:54 -0800

So "leisure suit" is redundant?

Yes, and I blame the illiterate middle-aged youth of the 1970s lounge scene.

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:53:21 -0800

"tacky one-piece suit."

Actually cortex, they weren't one-piece. The leisure suit (oops, sorry to be redundant) was actually a suit. Jacket and pants, separate.

By: cortex

cortex — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 09:59:45 -0800

It's the tackiness at the seams that makes it a de facto one-piece. Check the OED.

*puts on sunglasses, skateboards into sunset*

By: lukemeister

lukemeister — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:05:35 -0800

I always thought that Jess had an incredibly aspirant voice.
You mean you thought she was spitting all over the place?

By: flapjax at midnite

flapjax at midnite — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:08:14 -0800

*watches cortex skateboard away, sees him hit by speeding '73 Chevy Camaro*

By: Caduceus

Caduceus — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:17:28 -0800

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:22:56 -0800

I always thought that Jess had an incredibly aspirant voice.

See now to me that just reads like "voice choking on its own vomit"

I agree though if mathowie decides this web thing doesn't do it for him, he'd make a great psychoanalyst with that voice.

By: lukemeister

lukemeister — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:23:37 -0800

It's all been downhill vocab-wise since the Anglo-Saxon of The Battle of Brunanburh.
Since McCain probably remembers those times, I look forward to when he compares Obama to Æþelræd Unræd.

By: cortex

cortex — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:31:29 -0800

I agree though if mathowie decides this web thing doesn't do it for him, he'd make a great psychoanalyst with that voice.

"Talk to me a little bit about, uh, about your mom."

"Well, when I was five, she caught me playing with myself and told me that the Devil would take me to Hell if I kept doing that, which was pretty traumatic in retro—"

"Oh my god, that's so retarded."

By: kittyprecious

kittyprecious — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:34:26 -0800

Hahahahahahaha.

By: Fuzzy Skinner

Fuzzy Skinner — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 10:57:42 -0800

cortex, your little role-playing skit there is nice and all, but it can never make up for the loss of respect for not knowing a leisure suit has two pieces.

::shakes head sadly::

By: lukemeister

lukemeister — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:01:50 -0800

See now to me that just reads like "voice choking on its own vomit"

jessamyn, You're right. So much for my aspiration to contribute to this thread!

By: cortex

cortex — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:03:59 -0800

Seriously. I should know better by now than to invoke fashion references in my snark without at least vetting them against wikipedia first. In my defense, though, the graphics in Leisure Suit Larry were pretty bad, and I was gloriously, deleriously not born when the damn things were actually fashionable.

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:09:52 -0800

An aspirant (n.) is one who aspires to something.
I hope you all take note of the fact that the period after the n is in italics, in accordance with approved prescriptivist practice.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:17:27 -0800

"See now to me that just reads like "voice choking on its own vomit""

No, it's the huffs and puffs from having a microphone too close without a wind screen. Plosive and sibilant. Kind of like the heavy breathing of a late-night caller, but not, you know, actually obscene.

By: dhammond

dhammond — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:24:36 -0800

So, what I got to wondering was ...

How do I use the "more inside" page break in a mostly pointless manner?

By: Bookhouse

Bookhouse — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:28:05 -0800

Cortex, I think you confused the leisure suit with the Parisian night suit.

By: lukemeister

lukemeister — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:29:56 -0800

like the heavy breathing of a late-night caller, but not, you know, actually obscene
That's a tagline!

By: cortex

cortex — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:39:13 -0800

You're probably onto something, Bookhouse. Goddam I loved that show.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:40:53 -0800

I hope you all take note of the fact that the period after the n is in italics, in accordance with approved prescriptivist practice.

Back in my proofreading days, I had an editor seriously tell me that the period in an ital sentence needed to be italic. I thought she was kidding at first, and kind of played along for a minute until I realized she meant it. I tried to explain that periods are little dots, they're as close to zero-dimensional as type gets, and that there's no such thing as an italic period. I couldn't get through to her. I still don't know how she became an editor.

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:50:30 -0800

That is truly fantastic, languagehat.

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:54:42 -0800

I am sure the typesetters really enjoyed working with that editor.

By: cortex

cortex — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:57:22 -0800

period in an ital sentence needed to be italic

This would be a case of distinguishing between an ellipse and an ellipsis, then?

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 11:59:14 -0800

cortex, where is the [groan] button?

By: cortex

cortex — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:00:13 -0800

It's hiding behind this rhombus: .

By: languagehat

languagehat — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:00:35 -0800

They took it away along with the image tag. Fascists.

By: burnmp3s

burnmp3s — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:01:28 -0800

..........

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:07:07 -0800

-- -.-- / .- ... ... / .... ..- .-. - ...

By: shmegegge

shmegegge — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:10:40 -0800

Back in my proofreading days, I had an editor seriously tell me that the period in an ital sentence needed to be italic.

my question is, what on earth could she have noticed that would cause her to bring this up? was she staring at a period and wondering why it didn't slant? was there ever an italicized period that she had seen which somehow did?

By: Greg Nog

Greg Nog — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:17:12 -0800

maybe she was thinking of comets

By: Greg Nog

Greg Nog — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:17:51 -0800

little tiny comets at the end of sentences

By: shmegegge

shmegegge — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:23:44 -0800

honestly that would probably have been the fittest revenge, to put commas at the end of all italicized sentences so that at least it looks like they're leaning.

By: Powerful Religious Baby

Powerful Religious Baby — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:25:23 -0800

I'd like to comment that the word 'cleave' is its own antonym.

Are you ready for some terminology? Contronym. Antagonym. Auto-antonym. Antilogy. Enantiodrome. JANUS WORD!

By: strangeleftydoublethink

strangeleftydoublethink — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:29:16 -0800

I thought they are called commas, those italicized periods.

By: strangeleftydoublethink

strangeleftydoublethink — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:30:58 -0800

. (regular)

. (italicized)

Not that I take a closer look, I do notice a slight difference.

By: strangeleftydoublethink

strangeleftydoublethink — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 12:33:33 -0800

Now that...

languagehat, your editor appears to have been correct. I feel your pain.

By: Astro Zombie

Astro Zombie — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:06:02 -0800

Max Miedinger spent close to three months designing the oblique form of the full stop for Helvetica, and you mock it?

By: Grither

Grither — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:09:01 -0800

Oh man...what did I do??! Sorry for ruining your thread, pjern.

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:12:43 -0800

Ruining? I think you mean "enawesoming" the thread.

By: Caduceus

Caduceus — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:22:22 -0800

Not that I take a closer look, I do notice a slight difference.

I don't. Maybe I need to turn my resolution down. Or up. Or something.

Actually, I do, if I turn up my text size four times. What's that make it in Firefox, 20 point?

By: stubby phillips

stubby phillips — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:23:18 -0800

not that i don't believe you, but:

.
.

By: stubby phillips

stubby phillips — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:24:12 -0800

they are different in Internet Explorer for this particular font.

By: stubby phillips

stubby phillips — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:26:16 -0800

very different in MS Word with Times New Roman

By: cortex

cortex — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:28:32 -0800

Yeah, I wasn't really kidding about the rhombus thing.

Cleartype may be a factor here, too. It's a nice clean little parallelogram in 12-pt Verdana on my LCD.

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:32:36 -0800

I'm out of the loop

Cortex is plotting again, huh?

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:33:23 -0800

Remember though, people, the 'hat was talking about printed material. The periods are generally dots, unlike what you see onscreen here.

To tell you the truth, I had never noticed that ital periods display differently onscreen then roman ones... A quick look at a printout confirms that the office printer prints little rhombi as well. Thanks for ruining my joke, modern technology!

By: strangeleftydoublethink

strangeleftydoublethink — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:52:01 -0800

Think of the cost! This little discovery of ours could result in the reprinting of millions of books.

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 13:57:21 -0800

Actually it looks like serif fonts tend to have round periods, whereas sans serifs tend to have square periods (in print).

By: cortex

cortex — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:00:16 -0800

This little discovery of ours could result in the reprinting of millions of books.

FULL STOP THE PRESSES!

By: dg

dg — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:05:58 -0800

cortexAdmin: "Seriously. I should know better by now than to invoke fashion references in my snark without at least vetting them against wikipedia first. In my defense, though, the graphics in Leisure Suit Larry were pretty bad, and I was gloriously, deleriously not born when the damn things were actually fashionable."
Man, I wish I could get back the countless hours I spent following Larry around on his adventures.

By: maudlin

maudlin — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:15:00 -0800

I just Ctrl-T-ed too many times to peruse this (plain template, Gill Sans, 11 px, Firefox 2.0, Aquarius), and yes, the second one is definitely drunk.

By: maudlin

maudlin — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:22:46 -0800

(OK, Ctrl-+-ed. Am NOT drunk.)

By: languagehat

languagehat — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:41:41 -0800

my question is, what on earth could she have noticed that would cause her to bring this up?

I think it was marking a text up: the underscore meaning "set ital" didn't extend under the period, and she thought it should.

And yeah, this was actual printed material; there was no internet yet, you damn whippersnappers.

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:45:52 -0800

So languagehat, what was Gutenberg like, anyway?

By: shmegegge

shmegegge — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 14:46:15 -0800

$20SAIT

By: loquacious

loquacious — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:34:28 -0800

Back in my proofreading days, I had an editor seriously tell me that the period in an ital sentence needed to be italic.

For correct typesetting, it should be italicized. For the purposes of typesetting software (InDesign, Quark XPress) or typesetting machines (Linotype, Hell-Agfa) or a trained, traditional graphical artist or typesetter - there's a small but important difference in the way the typesetting works between italicized and normal text.

It's the same exact reason why you wouldn't bold a sentence and leave the period unbolded, or the same reason why you wouldn't set a headline or title font on a sentence and then finish it with a period set in a different font style of the same font.

Proper modern typesetting isn't static, even when you're just using basic tracked fonts instead of kerning, optimization or justification. You don't count in points, pica or certainly not inches or millimeters - you measure typesetting in percentages of the letter unit - the em. The "rules" are informed by what kind of font you're using, what kind of print, how big, how small, what the audience is, etc - and these rules can be bent or totally broken, but you have to know the rules to begin with, and starting with clean copy is one of the first steps towards good, clear, legible and aesthetically pleasing typesetting.

Making sure that every single sentence, detail and structure is uniform in this way helps reduce problems down the road during the layout and typesetting process. This is why graphic designers and typesetters will come back to the copywriter/copyeditor with many miniscule, apparently pointless edits, corrections and changes. A doublespace? Gotta go. Go back and italicize all of those periods in italic sentences, yes please. See how those "orphans" and "widows" cleaned up? Ah, yes, now the justification and kerning flows uniformly throughout the paragraph. See what you did there?

This is also why many typesetters and art directors ARE VERY FOND OF YELLING AT PRODUCTION ARTISTS AND COPYWRITERS WHO DON'T GET THIS CONCEPT THAT THEIR NUMBER ONE JOB IS ATTENTION TO THESE LITTLE POINTLESS DETAILS LIKE UNITALICIZED PERIODS AT THE END OF ITALICIZED SENTENCES, rather than trying to insist on trying to force prose into what usually amounts to a one paragraph blurb about a hideous t-shirt someone is trying to sell someone else.

And this is the reason why I own a real live bullwhip. Just in case I ever start a graphic design venture with actual underlings like proofreaders or copyeditors and I'm the default art director. WHAT IS THAT? WHY ARE YOU ABUSING THAT FAKE ELLIPSIS IN TOTALLY UNNATURAL WAYS!? *CRACK* YOU WOULDN'T TREAT YOUR MOMMA THAT WAY, WOULD YOU? *CRACK* I DON'T CARE IF THE SENTENCE IS UGLY, IT FITS BENEATH THE PICTURE. MOVE ON TO THE NEXT ONE, DAMNIT, THERE'S DEADLINES LOOMING. *CRACK*

By: loquacious

loquacious — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 15:45:50 -0800

This little discovery of ours could result in the reprinting of millions of books.

Relax. Most reputable printers and publishers already know all the things I outlined in my last comment, and then some - and will practice it as economically as the state of the art allows.

They kind of helped invent and develop these practices. You know, before we had computers and software with fancy formula to autokern text for us. That sort of attention to detail probably has something to do with them becoming reputable printers and publishers in the first place.

By: dirty lies

dirty lies — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:13:21 -0800

When I design my next typeface, the italicized period will be a tiny "OCD" glyph. The word "PEDANT" is harder to fit into a tiny rhomboid.

By: strangeleftydoublethink

strangeleftydoublethink — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:28:39 -0800

I'd like to remind you, loquacious, that this thread is about the podcast. Please don't muddy the waters with "facts" about typography and printing.

By: pjern

pjern — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 16:57:11 -0800

Jesus, no wonder it takes so long to get the podcast up.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 17:03:31 -0800

Damn, loquacious, I have no idea whether you're making all that shit up as you go along or whether it's honest-to-Goudy truth. That's the cross you bear with all your loquacity. But if it's all true: thanks, and you should have been in our department!

By: lekvar

lekvar — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 18:39:24 -0800

/me nervously eyes loquacious' bullwhip.

Man, I knew I shouldn't have slept through my typography classes.

By: loquacious

loquacious — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 19:48:42 -0800

When I design my next typeface, the italicized period will be a tiny "OCD" glyph. The word "PEDANT" is harder to fit into a tiny rhomboid.

No small coincidence, but if you look up "OCD" in the OED there's a picture of a typographer nervously lining everything up just so, and if you look up "pedant" you'll probably find a picture of an editor.

But if it's all true: thanks, and you should have been in our department!

I learned just enough typography to be dangerous from my pops before computers and desktop publishing. Mostly I hand-set phototype for logos and headline-like work, but not very much manual bulk copy setting and layout. Before laser printing was cheap and affordable you could order typeset strips for bulk copy work from larger print service shops, assuming you couldn't afford your own phototype setting machine.

I've met a couple of old masters, guys that'll still work with metal type foundary work for bespoke printing, another gentleman who did a fair amount of designing fonts (besides illustration, painting, architecture and drafting), which was and is a black art to do well. He liked to talk about using the golden ratio for calculating white/black space ratios and the design of the font face characteristics.

These guys laugh at our computers, our InDesign and Quark.

/me nervously eyes loquacious' bullwhip.

KERN FASTER! TYPESETTERS USED TO HAVE TO DO THAT BY HAND BY SHAVING METAL OFF OF THE EDGES OF THE BLOCKS OR INSERTING SHIMS! LOOK AT YOU AND YOUR MOUSE AND YOUR COMFY CHAIR AND WIDESCREEN DISPLAY, YOUR AIR CONDITIONED OFFICE AND YOUR DESK FULL OF POP-CULT VINYL TOYS! *CRACK* HIYAAA! FASTER OR I'LL MAKE YOU LAY IT OUT IN COREL WITH THE AUTOKERNING OFF!

By: Caduceus

Caduceus — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 20:41:30 -0800

I'LL MAKE YOU LAY IT OUT IN COREL WITH THE AUTOKERNING OFF!

*shudders*

I'd rather do it by hand the traditional way than do that.

As far as I know (though, I also didn't pay quite as much attention as I probably ought to have in my typography class), loquacious is telling the truth. For what that's worth.

By: painquale

painquale — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:50:57 -0800

But back to 'peruse' and 'scan'. Are there any other words that have had their ironic use become standardized, causing the word's meaning to evolve into what was once its opposite?

By: netbros

netbros — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 21:52:56 -0800

bush

By: Caduceus

Caduceus — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:09:58 -0800

But back to 'peruse' and 'scan'. Are there any other words that have had their ironic use become standardized, causing the word's meaning to evolve into what was once its opposite?

Yeah. There's whole lists of them, which is what Powerful Religious Baby was referring to above.*

1 2 3 4 5

*I did not hotlink my period. I am a bad typesetter.

By: Caduceus

Caduceus — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:10:23 -0800

Er... hyperlink. Leave me alone, I'm tired.

By: cortex

cortex — Thu, 28 Aug 2008 22:49:27 -0800

I did not hotlink my period. I am a bad typesetter.

If it is not the whole sentence that you are enclosing in formatting, I feel that it's better not to include terminal punctuation in the bounds of the formatting.

By: painquale

painquale — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 01:05:16 -0800

Antagonyms aren't quite the same, though. What I thought was neat about 'peruse' is that it had a specific meaning, but was used in irony so often that the ironic meaning became the standard meaning. This isn't true of, say, 'cleave'.

By: loquacious

loquacious — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 02:43:40 -0800

If it is not the whole sentence that you are enclosing in formatting, I feel that it's better not to include terminal punctuation in the bounds of the formatting.

Which is the same way you wouldn't italicize the period in a sentence if it had only one or a few italicized words, even if one of them was the last word before the period.

By: jack_mo

jack_mo — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 04:31:07 -0800

Mister_A wrote: ital periods

You obviously know nothing about traditional Rastafari attitudes to menstruation.

By: cortex

cortex — Fri, 29 Aug 2008 05:58:28 -0800

loq: right.

I have zero typesetting background, but I am prone to bong-worthy overanalysis of this stuff, so I feel sort of like close to you and stuff right now.