Imminent demise of Metafilter predicted in 2002.... January 31, 2002 11:53 AM Subscribe
On one hand, it's nice to see people care enough about the place to treat their departure like it was a Greek tragedy. However, claiming this site is going to slip into "smug complacency and stagnation" after you leave requires a devotion to self that's completely nauseating.
I'm becoming a much bigger fan of the people who go quietly into that good night.
posted by rcade at 12:14 PM on January 31, 2002
I'm becoming a much bigger fan of the people who go quietly into that good night.
posted by rcade at 12:14 PM on January 31, 2002
Everyone is entitled to an opinion but frankly I think his is incorrect. For one thing, it is true we have over 12,000 members-but how many of these signed up-perhaps back when Kaycee Nicole was in her "death throes" and have since never even been back? Do we even have any statistics on how many members participate on say, a weekly basis?
I suspect of those who even do click on mefi daily, only a small subset post and only a smaller subset post links.
If Matt is really worried he can always set things up on a new-member-by-invitation-only -basis. Or, have a trial membership. But the bottom line is-if Matt is happy, that is the only vote that counts. Call your next case, your honor.
posted by bunnyfire at 12:14 PM on January 31, 2002
I suspect of those who even do click on mefi daily, only a small subset post and only a smaller subset post links.
If Matt is really worried he can always set things up on a new-member-by-invitation-only -basis. Or, have a trial membership. But the bottom line is-if Matt is happy, that is the only vote that counts. Call your next case, your honor.
posted by bunnyfire at 12:14 PM on January 31, 2002
I feel all he wants to do is run MeFi, and since he can't (thank god) he goes and writes an article on why and how someone should. I would love to see the day, hopefully a few years from now when he shall take credit for having saved MeFi. :)
posted by bittennails at 12:21 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by bittennails at 12:21 PM on January 31, 2002
Personally, I think SDB was just jealous that Lileks was getting all the attention over here for quitting. Steven likes to be paid attention to.
Many of Ye Olde Tyme MeFiers will no doubt miss SDB (especially a lot more than Lileks, who was never very active here), but lately he had become a bit of a troll.
posted by briank at 12:25 PM on January 31, 2002
Many of Ye Olde Tyme MeFiers will no doubt miss SDB (especially a lot more than Lileks, who was never very active here), but lately he had become a bit of a troll.
posted by briank at 12:25 PM on January 31, 2002
Navel-gazing is so tiresome, but especially when its directed at others' umbilici. Let them pick their own lint.
posted by Voyageman at 12:33 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by Voyageman at 12:33 PM on January 31, 2002
I think that the participants in MetaFilter want a unifying voice ...
Flummery. I think most users of MeFi, like me, want a diversity of voices. And when we feel and hankering to hear a single, self-important voice, we can go read weblogs like that one.
Is this forum now going to be used to rehash each and every "I'm quitting MeFi and taking my football with me!" Metatalk-bait screed we stumble across? If so, I'll go write one now so y'all will talk about me for 40 minutes.
posted by Shadowkeeper at 12:33 PM on January 31, 2002
Flummery. I think most users of MeFi, like me, want a diversity of voices. And when we feel and hankering to hear a single, self-important voice, we can go read weblogs like that one.
Is this forum now going to be used to rehash each and every "I'm quitting MeFi and taking my football with me!" Metatalk-bait screed we stumble across? If so, I'll go write one now so y'all will talk about me for 40 minutes.
posted by Shadowkeeper at 12:33 PM on January 31, 2002
hmmm...my site could also benefit from some new visitors...
henceforth, I am retiring from this rag and I'm not returning until mefi transforms itself into something that serves my ego exclusively and bolsters the opinions I already had or whatever otherwise overly idyllic vision I have of this place, or for another 20 minutes. whichever comes first. weep for me, suckers!
posted by mcsweetie at 12:37 PM on January 31, 2002
henceforth, I am retiring from this rag and I'm not returning until mefi transforms itself into something that serves my ego exclusively and bolsters the opinions I already had or whatever otherwise overly idyllic vision I have of this place, or for another 20 minutes. whichever comes first. weep for me, suckers!
posted by mcsweetie at 12:37 PM on January 31, 2002
...Just as posters in my forum tend to write at the level I do...
Did he really type that? Good god.
posted by machaus at 12:37 PM on January 31, 2002
Did he really type that? Good god.
posted by machaus at 12:37 PM on January 31, 2002
If SDB's leaving, it's too bad -- he made some contributions. But I don't think there's any need to glorify the whole "I'm leaving" letter. It's totally uninteresting, boring and predictable.
There's only one appropriate response:
"And take that stinking dog with you!"
posted by mattpfeff at 12:39 PM on January 31, 2002
There's only one appropriate response:
"And take that stinking dog with you!"
posted by mattpfeff at 12:39 PM on January 31, 2002
Yay! McSweetie's finally gone!
Bust out the keg!
posted by Kafkaesque at 12:41 PM on January 31, 2002
Bust out the keg!
posted by Kafkaesque at 12:41 PM on January 31, 2002
Dramatic, indeed.
He pushes the mouse away in disgust, after clicking out of MetaFilter for the very last time.
It seems that he has a definite ideology about community life. He writes, "A community without a dominant voice will drift and mutate uncontrollably." Does he mean a singular dominant voice? Also, does he think that communities should not change and evolve ("drift and mutate)? I suppose if Matt wanted to create a forum fashioned completely in his image, he could. SDB writes, "That's what I'm trying to do with my own forum on this server." If you go to his forum (which, of course, is quite different from a weblog community), you'll see that the discussions are essentially about him ("It is intended only for commentary and discussion about USS Clueless log entries"). Matt has chosen a different path.
Curious about the possible reactions, he slowly reaches for his mouse to take one more look.
posted by jacknose at 12:44 PM on January 31, 2002
He pushes the mouse away in disgust, after clicking out of MetaFilter for the very last time.
It seems that he has a definite ideology about community life. He writes, "A community without a dominant voice will drift and mutate uncontrollably." Does he mean a singular dominant voice? Also, does he think that communities should not change and evolve ("drift and mutate)? I suppose if Matt wanted to create a forum fashioned completely in his image, he could. SDB writes, "That's what I'm trying to do with my own forum on this server." If you go to his forum (which, of course, is quite different from a weblog community), you'll see that the discussions are essentially about him ("It is intended only for commentary and discussion about USS Clueless log entries"). Matt has chosen a different path.
Curious about the possible reactions, he slowly reaches for his mouse to take one more look.
posted by jacknose at 12:44 PM on January 31, 2002
Imminent SDB Week on MetaTalk (again) predicted. You heard it here first, folks!
posted by Sapphireblue at 12:46 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by Sapphireblue at 12:46 PM on January 31, 2002
I re-checked Alexa....
Plastic.com
Average traffic ranking: 10,220
Links pointing in: 1,086
Online since: 02-Sep-93
MetaFilter
Average traffic ranking: 25,381
Links pointing in: 1,380
Online since: 18-Mar-1999
Memepool
Average traffic ranking: 27,956
Links pointing in: 1,988
Online since: 23-Apr-1998
MetaFilter
Average traffic ranking: 25,381
Links pointing in: 1,380
Online since: 18-Mar-1999
Kottke
Average traffic ranking: 123,714
Links pointing in: 1,423
Online since: 26-Dec-1998
MetaTalk
Average traffic ranking: 308,828
Links pointing in: 68
Online since: 18-Mar-1999
U.S.S. Clueless
Average traffic ranking: 680,449
Links pointing in: 0
MetaFilter lfe support apparently not imminent...
posted by y2karl at 12:50 PM on January 31, 2002
Plastic.com
Average traffic ranking: 10,220
Links pointing in: 1,086
Online since: 02-Sep-93
MetaFilter
Average traffic ranking: 25,381
Links pointing in: 1,380
Online since: 18-Mar-1999
Memepool
Average traffic ranking: 27,956
Links pointing in: 1,988
Online since: 23-Apr-1998
MetaFilter
Average traffic ranking: 25,381
Links pointing in: 1,380
Online since: 18-Mar-1999
Kottke
Average traffic ranking: 123,714
Links pointing in: 1,423
Online since: 26-Dec-1998
MetaTalk
Average traffic ranking: 308,828
Links pointing in: 68
Online since: 18-Mar-1999
U.S.S. Clueless
Average traffic ranking: 680,449
Links pointing in: 0
MetaFilter lfe support apparently not imminent...
posted by y2karl at 12:50 PM on January 31, 2002
He takes that whole web site-as-Star Trek metaphor too far for me to take him seriously.
posted by kirkaracha at 12:54 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by kirkaracha at 12:54 PM on January 31, 2002
I appears that some people take themselves way too seriously. Let's not be an accomplice to that.
posted by adampsyche at 12:56 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by adampsyche at 12:56 PM on January 31, 2002
I have to disagree with you, SDB. One of the things that impressed me most about this site when I first came here was how "hands off" Mr Haughey appeared to make it look. In particular he never seemed to get involved in any polarizing threads, which is something that surprised me. I remember reading some threads early on and thinking that if this was my site I'd be jumping in right now and giving this or that person a good kicking. Instead this task is left to us.
So there. That's basically what I like about this site - it looks and acts remarkably laissez-faire, there's not much fancy moderation, and the benevolent dictator spends about as much time talking as the rest of us. It's our site. (well, er.. I mean ... it's Matt's site really, but it feels like our site, you know what I mean? :)
posted by dlewis at 1:00 PM on January 31, 2002
So there. That's basically what I like about this site - it looks and acts remarkably laissez-faire, there's not much fancy moderation, and the benevolent dictator spends about as much time talking as the rest of us. It's our site. (well, er.. I mean ... it's Matt's site really, but it feels like our site, you know what I mean? :)
posted by dlewis at 1:00 PM on January 31, 2002
I think Bunnyfire has a point. There may be 13,000 users, but I see the same names every day in the discussions. Maybe there are more than when I started, but it isn't 13 times more.
Steven also gives some examples of community sites with a dominant leader (Something Awful, and Ars Technica) but I don't think it's a benevolent dictator that keeps them true to form; it's the fact that they are pretty highly specialized sites (humor, and technology). Metafilter doesn't have that luxury.
I'm interested in hearing what Matt has to say. Mein Fuerer.
posted by Doug at 1:08 PM on January 31, 2002
Steven also gives some examples of community sites with a dominant leader (Something Awful, and Ars Technica) but I don't think it's a benevolent dictator that keeps them true to form; it's the fact that they are pretty highly specialized sites (humor, and technology). Metafilter doesn't have that luxury.
I'm interested in hearing what Matt has to say. Mein Fuerer.
posted by Doug at 1:08 PM on January 31, 2002
"Metafilter's dead!"
(wait 5 minutes)
"MatthowiePhoenix Rises Again!"
posted by owillis at 1:13 PM on January 31, 2002
(wait 5 minutes)
"MatthowiePhoenix Rises Again!"
posted by owillis at 1:13 PM on January 31, 2002
y2karl: Alexa's results are screwy where SDB's site is concerned. According to Google, 980 pages link to his site.
posted by rcade at 1:14 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by rcade at 1:14 PM on January 31, 2002
Links pointing in: 0
That one I wouldn't be so sure about. If, for instance, you feed 'instapundit.com' (to choose a comparable-demographic blog) to Alexa, it says 0 links. If you feed 'instapundit.blogspot.com' (the site's real domain), you get a whole lot more *and* a higher traffic ranking.
Also, I wouldn't bring up SA as a forum particularly influenced by its leader: attempts to duplicate the Lowtax style of humor almost invariably fail, and are strongly discouraged.
posted by darukaru at 1:15 PM on January 31, 2002
That one I wouldn't be so sure about. If, for instance, you feed 'instapundit.com' (to choose a comparable-demographic blog) to Alexa, it says 0 links. If you feed 'instapundit.blogspot.com' (the site's real domain), you get a whole lot more *and* a higher traffic ranking.
Also, I wouldn't bring up SA as a forum particularly influenced by its leader: attempts to duplicate the Lowtax style of humor almost invariably fail, and are strongly discouraged.
posted by darukaru at 1:15 PM on January 31, 2002
rcade, the next time you come across something "completely nauseating" perhaps you wouldn't mind keeping it to yourself?
posted by sudama at 1:28 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by sudama at 1:28 PM on January 31, 2002
I feel moved to poem:
"By the shores Gitchee ya-ya da-da;
By the smugling protestations
Stood the website US Clueless
Ego central for the Captain..."
Best. Hiawatha. Ever.
posted by Perigee at 1:33 PM on January 31, 2002
"By the shores Gitchee ya-ya da-da;
By the smugling protestations
Stood the website US Clueless
Ego central for the Captain..."
Best. Hiawatha. Ever.
posted by Perigee at 1:33 PM on January 31, 2002
rcade, the next time you come across something "completely nauseating" perhaps you wouldn't mind keeping it to yourself?
Where's the fun in that?
posted by rcade at 1:38 PM on January 31, 2002
Where's the fun in that?
posted by rcade at 1:38 PM on January 31, 2002
Yeah, I mean isn't rcade's internet career based on this precept? ;)
posted by cell divide at 1:39 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by cell divide at 1:39 PM on January 31, 2002
I believe there is a saying that says something about a screen door, an ass and what happens on your way out that would apply in this situation. It is the same saying I think of everytime a user decides to leave MeFi and announce it. If you want to leave, just go. Leaving and bitching implies that we could change to appease you and get you back.
And this is coming from someone who liked many of SDB's threads for their ability to shake up the front page.
posted by eyeballkid at 1:40 PM on January 31, 2002
And this is coming from someone who liked many of SDB's threads for their ability to shake up the front page.
posted by eyeballkid at 1:40 PM on January 31, 2002
I've heard this said on MeFi all the time, and I believe it applies here: I think this thread is masturbatory. Shut up about yourself and just be an upstanding member of a great community. Lead by example; not by the constant bitching and psycho-babble analyzation. I swear, MeFi has died and risen from the grave more often than a Hindu reincarnate.
posted by BlueTrain at 1:57 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by BlueTrain at 1:57 PM on January 31, 2002
I think this thread is masturbatory.
I prefer to call it "self love".
posted by dlewis at 2:04 PM on January 31, 2002
I prefer to call it "self love".
posted by dlewis at 2:04 PM on January 31, 2002
Well crap. I give up. I'm bailing on Metafilter. It used to be alive, but now it's dead.
Despite the fact that I spent so much time defending it earlier this month, I've actually been finding I like the place less and less for quite awhile. It really started getting to me after Miguel Cardoso showed up and started shaping it in exactly the wrong direction. I'm completely mystified as to why people let him get away with it, but he's managed to turn Metafilter into my personal version of Hell.
It's certainly not just him, but I tend to think of the place these days as Miguelfilter.
At Miguelfilter we now have to be polite. We can't call people names because that's an ad hominem attack, and as we all know, that's very very bad. We can't be passive aggressive because such debate techniques would never be accepted at the Harvard Debate Club, so we certainly can't have them at Miguelfilter.
Self-policing is now bad, because it hurts people's feelings. So apparently it's better to just hum a happy tune as people fill the front page with shite.
People can't be funny because it's rude. People can't state their frank opinion, because if it's not a carefully constructed argument it's worthless. Anyone who doesn't toe the politeness line is contemptible and boring. And the PC police are always watching.
Metafilter used to be fun. It used to be a place where I could call someone names without being shouted down. It used to be a place where people felt welcome to mix it up. But now it's turned into a bunch of stuffy, thin-skinned, pedantic grammar freaks.
By pounding the round weblogger peg into the square PC hole the place has found it's niche as home for politeness freaks and stuffed shirts. So fuck you guys, I'm outa here.
posted by y6y6y6 at 2:07 PM on January 31, 2002
Despite the fact that I spent so much time defending it earlier this month, I've actually been finding I like the place less and less for quite awhile. It really started getting to me after Miguel Cardoso showed up and started shaping it in exactly the wrong direction. I'm completely mystified as to why people let him get away with it, but he's managed to turn Metafilter into my personal version of Hell.
It's certainly not just him, but I tend to think of the place these days as Miguelfilter.
At Miguelfilter we now have to be polite. We can't call people names because that's an ad hominem attack, and as we all know, that's very very bad. We can't be passive aggressive because such debate techniques would never be accepted at the Harvard Debate Club, so we certainly can't have them at Miguelfilter.
Self-policing is now bad, because it hurts people's feelings. So apparently it's better to just hum a happy tune as people fill the front page with shite.
People can't be funny because it's rude. People can't state their frank opinion, because if it's not a carefully constructed argument it's worthless. Anyone who doesn't toe the politeness line is contemptible and boring. And the PC police are always watching.
Metafilter used to be fun. It used to be a place where I could call someone names without being shouted down. It used to be a place where people felt welcome to mix it up. But now it's turned into a bunch of stuffy, thin-skinned, pedantic grammar freaks.
By pounding the round weblogger peg into the square PC hole the place has found it's niche as home for politeness freaks and stuffed shirts. So fuck you guys, I'm outa here.
posted by y6y6y6 at 2:07 PM on January 31, 2002
Leaving and bitching implies that we could change to appease you and get you back.
I agree completely, but to be fair, I think SDB announced his departure on his own page, and not here.
posted by anapestic at 2:09 PM on January 31, 2002
I agree completely, but to be fair, I think SDB announced his departure on his own page, and not here.
posted by anapestic at 2:09 PM on January 31, 2002
So fuck you guys, I'm outa here.
Can I have your user number?
posted by anapestic at 2:11 PM on January 31, 2002
Can I have your user number?
posted by anapestic at 2:11 PM on January 31, 2002
y6y6y6 - It used to be a place where I could call someone names without being shouted down.
Calling someone names is perhaps the primary way shouting them down. This didn't generate any sympathy from me.
posted by NortonDC at 2:13 PM on January 31, 2002
Calling someone names is perhaps the primary way shouting them down. This didn't generate any sympathy from me.
posted by NortonDC at 2:13 PM on January 31, 2002
Man. We're really culling the herd today.
Who's next?
posted by Kafkaesque at 2:13 PM on January 31, 2002
Who's next?
posted by Kafkaesque at 2:13 PM on January 31, 2002
*blushes charmingly, fluttering fan*
Why, y6y6y6, you little devil, I had no idea!
posted by MiguelCardoso at 2:16 PM on January 31, 2002
Why, y6y6y6, you little devil, I had no idea!
posted by MiguelCardoso at 2:16 PM on January 31, 2002
So fuck you guys, I'm outa here.
Don't mean to be fussy, but I think you'll find there's two T's in outta, y6y6y6. Am I the only one who thinks the spelling on this site has really gone to the dogs in past few months? If it doesn't improve I'm afraid I'm going to have to get my kicks elsewhere...
posted by dlewis at 2:19 PM on January 31, 2002
Don't mean to be fussy, but I think you'll find there's two T's in outta, y6y6y6. Am I the only one who thinks the spelling on this site has really gone to the dogs in past few months? If it doesn't improve I'm afraid I'm going to have to get my kicks elsewhere...
posted by dlewis at 2:19 PM on January 31, 2002
Man. We're really culling the herd today.
Who's next?
Not me.
*superglues own feet to the floor*
posted by iceberg273 at 2:27 PM on January 31, 2002
Who's next?
Not me.
*superglues own feet to the floor*
posted by iceberg273 at 2:27 PM on January 31, 2002
y6y6y6:
At Miguelfilter we now have to be polite. We can't call people names because that's an ad hominem attack, and as we all know, that's very very bad. We can't be passive aggressive because such debate techniques would never be accepted at the Harvard Debate Club, so we certainly can't have them at Miguelfilter.
does matt threaten to ban you should you make fun of someone, y6? if not, why do you give a shit what people say on metatalk? metatalk stops no one from doing what they want to do; only matt does. i find it interesting that people seem to invent restrictions placed on themselves through "being hauled on metafilter" by those oh-so-terrible mefi police. if matt says nothing on said thread and you disagree with what is discussed then you're quite free to ignore the thing entirely.
overall, i know i should feel badly about people leaving, but i don't. in truth, i feel apathy. am i the only one?
posted by moz at 2:30 PM on January 31, 2002
At Miguelfilter we now have to be polite. We can't call people names because that's an ad hominem attack, and as we all know, that's very very bad. We can't be passive aggressive because such debate techniques would never be accepted at the Harvard Debate Club, so we certainly can't have them at Miguelfilter.
does matt threaten to ban you should you make fun of someone, y6? if not, why do you give a shit what people say on metatalk? metatalk stops no one from doing what they want to do; only matt does. i find it interesting that people seem to invent restrictions placed on themselves through "being hauled on metafilter" by those oh-so-terrible mefi police. if matt says nothing on said thread and you disagree with what is discussed then you're quite free to ignore the thing entirely.
overall, i know i should feel badly about people leaving, but i don't. in truth, i feel apathy. am i the only one?
posted by moz at 2:30 PM on January 31, 2002
I would just like to point out that I quit MetaFilter waaaaay before it was cool.
posted by Shadowkeeper at 2:31 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by Shadowkeeper at 2:31 PM on January 31, 2002
Hey, y6y6y6, now seriously:
Well, Metafilter is what it is.
The self policing that keeps the place honest is interpreted as snarky elitism by lots of people. But despite it's shortcomings, I think it's a very efficient way to run a huge, unstructured discussion.
Imagine if we had thousands of people reading and posting at this site, or your weblog. It would still be a friendly community with lots of spoken and unspoken rules. Occasionally a relative new comer would pop in and break some minor rule. 99% of the people here would just overlook it or, at most, politely point out their error. But invariably there would be someone who would jump all over it and act like an ass, no matter what intentions they might have. I don't think we should judge the site by that one dipstick.
Metafilter has it's share of snarky, elitist bastards. But so does any large discussion forum. Isn't that a natural consequence of unmoderated, large scale, distributed discussion? Isn't this the same thing that's happened (admittedly on a larger scale) with Usenet, The Well, Slashdot, AOL chatrooms, etc? And isn't Metafilter much better for discussion that those examples?
Everybody who makes front page posts at Metafilter (including yours truly) has been jumped on for double posts. It's inevitable. There are too many links and too many dipsticks. What should Matt do? Ban anyone who is rude? That would suck.
Perhaps it's not for everyone, but I really like Metafilter. Since I tend to be a completely over the top asshole in my posts, I'm sure I've been jumped on more than the rest of you put together. I still like it. It's alive and raw and discordian. I'm not going to apologize for it's shortcomings, because I like it for what it is, and don't worry too much about what it isn't.
Got that? You should. You wrote every single word of it on January 6. And I, for one, agree.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 2:31 PM on January 31, 2002
Well, Metafilter is what it is.
The self policing that keeps the place honest is interpreted as snarky elitism by lots of people. But despite it's shortcomings, I think it's a very efficient way to run a huge, unstructured discussion.
Imagine if we had thousands of people reading and posting at this site, or your weblog. It would still be a friendly community with lots of spoken and unspoken rules. Occasionally a relative new comer would pop in and break some minor rule. 99% of the people here would just overlook it or, at most, politely point out their error. But invariably there would be someone who would jump all over it and act like an ass, no matter what intentions they might have. I don't think we should judge the site by that one dipstick.
Metafilter has it's share of snarky, elitist bastards. But so does any large discussion forum. Isn't that a natural consequence of unmoderated, large scale, distributed discussion? Isn't this the same thing that's happened (admittedly on a larger scale) with Usenet, The Well, Slashdot, AOL chatrooms, etc? And isn't Metafilter much better for discussion that those examples?
Everybody who makes front page posts at Metafilter (including yours truly) has been jumped on for double posts. It's inevitable. There are too many links and too many dipsticks. What should Matt do? Ban anyone who is rude? That would suck.
Perhaps it's not for everyone, but I really like Metafilter. Since I tend to be a completely over the top asshole in my posts, I'm sure I've been jumped on more than the rest of you put together. I still like it. It's alive and raw and discordian. I'm not going to apologize for it's shortcomings, because I like it for what it is, and don't worry too much about what it isn't.
Got that? You should. You wrote every single word of it on January 6. And I, for one, agree.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 2:31 PM on January 31, 2002
I quit MetaFilter every day. I say, that's it, enough of that. Then, some time later, maybe that same day, maybe the next, I say, I wonder if there's anything on MetaFilter. And I go and check.
One day, I won't wonder if there's anything interesting on MetaFilter. I suppose then I will have "quit" in the way these other people have "quit". But I still don't see how it's a big deal. There are far greater tragedies in life than a website not living up to your own hopes and dreams.
posted by mattpfeff at 2:43 PM on January 31, 2002
One day, I won't wonder if there's anything interesting on MetaFilter. I suppose then I will have "quit" in the way these other people have "quit". But I still don't see how it's a big deal. There are far greater tragedies in life than a website not living up to your own hopes and dreams.
posted by mattpfeff at 2:43 PM on January 31, 2002
People can't be funny because it's rude. People can't state their frank opinion , because if it's not a carefully constructed argument it's worthless. Anyone who doesn't toe the politeness line is contemptible and boring. And the PC police are always watching.!(Going where you're wanted is the easy way out).
if matt says nothing on said thread and you disagree with what is discussed then you're quite free to ignore the thing entirely.There's no power behind those who aren't matt, but they can certainly boil the fun out.
posted by holloway at 2:46 PM on January 31, 2002
Quitting metafilter is easy. I've done it a thousand times.
posted by crunchland at 2:53 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by crunchland at 2:53 PM on January 31, 2002
With all the attrition, my star is on the rise! Gimme love, my people!
::rubs hands together in Montgomery Burnsian fashion::
Soooooon, my plans to dominate the intellectual wing of Mefi Conservative PartyTM will be complete, bwu huh huh huh... Smithers! Have MidasMulligan killed!
Quitting metafilter is easy. I've done it a thousand times.
Me too - every night at 5 p.m.
posted by UncleFes at 2:56 PM on January 31, 2002
::rubs hands together in Montgomery Burnsian fashion::
Soooooon, my plans to dominate the intellectual wing of Mefi Conservative PartyTM will be complete, bwu huh huh huh... Smithers! Have MidasMulligan killed!
Quitting metafilter is easy. I've done it a thousand times.
Me too - every night at 5 p.m.
posted by UncleFes at 2:56 PM on January 31, 2002
Honey? I'm home from MetaFilter!
posted by Kafkaesque at 3:09 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by Kafkaesque at 3:09 PM on January 31, 2002
The boss is never around these days. All I seem him doing is printing off his resume on the expensive color printer.
posted by machaus at 3:14 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by machaus at 3:14 PM on January 31, 2002
For those who are thinking of leaving, allow me to offer this ten-step guide to quitting social posting. It's a guide to quitting social smoking, and I have replaced "smoker" with "MeFite", "smoke" with "post to MetaFilter", "smoking" with "posting to MetaFilter", "ashtray" with "keyboard", and "cigarette" with "interesting links". I think it works.
1 FULFILL YOUR NEEDS
Find other ways to please yourself which you would usually achieve by social posting to MetaFilter. Do whatever makes you happy. Spoil yourself by trying a new drink [by this I don't mean intoxicate yourself!] or chat to someone you don't know or wouldn't usually speak to. Do anything to distract yourself and forget your craving.
2 NIP THE HABIT
Imagine not posting to MetaFilter the next time you are out or socializing. You will look good, smell good and even taste good.
3 BE STRONG
For one evening when out with friends try not to post to MetaFilter. If you can survive one evening, you can do it again! Why not make this a permanent characteristic? Prove to yourself that you can do it.
4 ORDER A DIFFERENT DRINK
By changing your patterns you can alter your posting to MetaFilter habits. Instead of combining two tastes you associate with each other, try a new drink and break the habit!!
5 ALTER YOUR PATTERNS
If you usually post to MetaFilter directly after having a meal, do the washing up instead. Or if you usually post to MetaFilter with a cup of coffee, have a chewing gum or a cup of tea. Do something to else to occupy your mind and body, create a new pattern for yourself.
6 CHOOSE YOUR WORDS CAREFULLY
Don't tell yourself that you are quitting posting to MetaFilter, this will make you want something which you can't have - this is perfectly human. Be stubborn, this is something which you want to do not something that has to be done.
7 STIMULATE YOURSELF
Social MeFites get more of a rush from posting to MetaFilter than regular MeFites do. Therefore if you feel like posting to MetaFilter do something else to stimulate yourself.
8 ASHES TO ASHES
By this I am not merely referring to the pre-mature death that you could be causing, but also instead of paying attention to your craving focus on interesting links, butts, the keyboard's smell and appearance. Need I say more?
9 GET SUPPORT FROM FRIENDS
Ask your friends not to offer you interesting links and encourage them to stop with you. This would make your life much easier, but don't be a party pooper. Remember you are doing this for yourself, not for others.
10 SMELL THE ROSES
When posting to MetaFilter the brain is deprived of oxygen, this in turn increases the effects of alcohol and decreases the quality of your sleep. Therefore if you didn't post to MetaFilter during your evening out enjoy the morning after by feeling healthy and refreshed.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:16 PM on January 31, 2002
1 FULFILL YOUR NEEDS
Find other ways to please yourself which you would usually achieve by social posting to MetaFilter. Do whatever makes you happy. Spoil yourself by trying a new drink [by this I don't mean intoxicate yourself!] or chat to someone you don't know or wouldn't usually speak to. Do anything to distract yourself and forget your craving.
2 NIP THE HABIT
Imagine not posting to MetaFilter the next time you are out or socializing. You will look good, smell good and even taste good.
3 BE STRONG
For one evening when out with friends try not to post to MetaFilter. If you can survive one evening, you can do it again! Why not make this a permanent characteristic? Prove to yourself that you can do it.
4 ORDER A DIFFERENT DRINK
By changing your patterns you can alter your posting to MetaFilter habits. Instead of combining two tastes you associate with each other, try a new drink and break the habit!!
5 ALTER YOUR PATTERNS
If you usually post to MetaFilter directly after having a meal, do the washing up instead. Or if you usually post to MetaFilter with a cup of coffee, have a chewing gum or a cup of tea. Do something to else to occupy your mind and body, create a new pattern for yourself.
6 CHOOSE YOUR WORDS CAREFULLY
Don't tell yourself that you are quitting posting to MetaFilter, this will make you want something which you can't have - this is perfectly human. Be stubborn, this is something which you want to do not something that has to be done.
7 STIMULATE YOURSELF
Social MeFites get more of a rush from posting to MetaFilter than regular MeFites do. Therefore if you feel like posting to MetaFilter do something else to stimulate yourself.
8 ASHES TO ASHES
By this I am not merely referring to the pre-mature death that you could be causing, but also instead of paying attention to your craving focus on interesting links, butts, the keyboard's smell and appearance. Need I say more?
9 GET SUPPORT FROM FRIENDS
Ask your friends not to offer you interesting links and encourage them to stop with you. This would make your life much easier, but don't be a party pooper. Remember you are doing this for yourself, not for others.
10 SMELL THE ROSES
When posting to MetaFilter the brain is deprived of oxygen, this in turn increases the effects of alcohol and decreases the quality of your sleep. Therefore if you didn't post to MetaFilter during your evening out enjoy the morning after by feeling healthy and refreshed.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 3:16 PM on January 31, 2002
What? Change? Change is bad! You guys are all turkeys. I'm outta he..he..heeeeeeere.
And I mean it. Really. This time is permanent. I've given and given and given to this site, but what do I get out of it? Misery. Well, you won't have old Hildago to kick around anymore, that's for sure.
I.. I don't know where I'll go next. Maybe Plastic.. maybe Fark.. Or maybe I'll just wander the streets alone in the cold black night, hungry, tired.. but where do I go? The only home I've ever had is gone. GONE! And it's all your fault.
But that's ok, I forgive you. I hope you understand that someday.
(Falls to the stage, weeping, writhing. Dies torturously slow. Opens one eye to make sure everyone is watching.)
posted by Hildago at 3:21 PM on January 31, 2002
And I mean it. Really. This time is permanent. I've given and given and given to this site, but what do I get out of it? Misery. Well, you won't have old Hildago to kick around anymore, that's for sure.
I.. I don't know where I'll go next. Maybe Plastic.. maybe Fark.. Or maybe I'll just wander the streets alone in the cold black night, hungry, tired.. but where do I go? The only home I've ever had is gone. GONE! And it's all your fault.
But that's ok, I forgive you. I hope you understand that someday.
(Falls to the stage, weeping, writhing. Dies torturously slow. Opens one eye to make sure everyone is watching.)
posted by Hildago at 3:21 PM on January 31, 2002
Frighteningly fitting, mr_crash_davis. And as for number 7, are we talking about self love again?
posted by dlewis at 3:21 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by dlewis at 3:21 PM on January 31, 2002
For a good example of out of control, unmoderated discussions, check out the Yahoo! Discussion boards.
posted by insomnyuk at 3:26 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by insomnyuk at 3:26 PM on January 31, 2002
I think people here have to realise that a great deal of Metafilter readers visit the website simply for the links. While they might read the comments, they'll rarely contribute. I've been on Mefi for a while now (hey, I even have a low user number!) and if I think hard about it, I honestly can't say whether the level of conversation has been getting worse, despite what I say in my user profile.
I have noticed that most of the people who are making criticisms of Mefi, and have left, are generally oldtimers who've contributed at least several hundred comments. They say that things aren't as good as they used to be, and they probably don't think they're getting the respect they deserve. Whether or not that is true, it's completely understandable.
What do I think should be done? Nothing, really - Mefi is fine as it is. I can think of half a dozen 'improvements' including setting up categories and maybe some kind of 'post of the day' sidebar and member moderators, but I'm not convinced they'd be that useful.
Mefi's present difficulties can be paralleled, IMO, to what happened with a mailing list that I used to frequent, called Brin-L; it was for the discussion of David Brin's SF books. When I first joined it three years ago, it seemed to be wonderful for me - intelligent, civilised discourse about all subjects with informed subscribers. It stayed like that for a while, but slowly I noticed that the same old threads were cropping up, namely Republicans vs. Democrats, USA vs the rest of the world and Israel vs everyone else. This was, of course, quite tiring considering that they involved the same posters and the same points of view every time.
Then something big happened; a new, secret list was started (for various reasons that seemed perfectly good and justifiable at the time). All was well. But then some people took the opportunity to launch ad hominem attacks on David Brin himself, who wasn't too happy. This progressed for a few days, and then boiled over onto the main public list, where people had absolutely no idea of what was going on. A flame-fest ensued, Brin and many other old-timers left and the mailing list was a barren landscape for many moons.
Eventually people returned, and now I don't read it any more since it only features the three threads that I mentioned above.
What does this have to do with Mefi? I can't remember any more. Suffice to say that I think people take themselves far too seriously on Mefi, but that can't be avoided when you have so many newbies joining all the time.
posted by adrianhon at 3:27 PM on January 31, 2002
I have noticed that most of the people who are making criticisms of Mefi, and have left, are generally oldtimers who've contributed at least several hundred comments. They say that things aren't as good as they used to be, and they probably don't think they're getting the respect they deserve. Whether or not that is true, it's completely understandable.
What do I think should be done? Nothing, really - Mefi is fine as it is. I can think of half a dozen 'improvements' including setting up categories and maybe some kind of 'post of the day' sidebar and member moderators, but I'm not convinced they'd be that useful.
Mefi's present difficulties can be paralleled, IMO, to what happened with a mailing list that I used to frequent, called Brin-L; it was for the discussion of David Brin's SF books. When I first joined it three years ago, it seemed to be wonderful for me - intelligent, civilised discourse about all subjects with informed subscribers. It stayed like that for a while, but slowly I noticed that the same old threads were cropping up, namely Republicans vs. Democrats, USA vs the rest of the world and Israel vs everyone else. This was, of course, quite tiring considering that they involved the same posters and the same points of view every time.
Then something big happened; a new, secret list was started (for various reasons that seemed perfectly good and justifiable at the time). All was well. But then some people took the opportunity to launch ad hominem attacks on David Brin himself, who wasn't too happy. This progressed for a few days, and then boiled over onto the main public list, where people had absolutely no idea of what was going on. A flame-fest ensued, Brin and many other old-timers left and the mailing list was a barren landscape for many moons.
Eventually people returned, and now I don't read it any more since it only features the three threads that I mentioned above.
What does this have to do with Mefi? I can't remember any more. Suffice to say that I think people take themselves far too seriously on Mefi, but that can't be avoided when you have so many newbies joining all the time.
posted by adrianhon at 3:27 PM on January 31, 2002
What do you expect from a wolfling species?
posted by Kafkaesque at 3:32 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by Kafkaesque at 3:32 PM on January 31, 2002
I think it would be so interesting to know what percentage of posters/commenters/readers who sink themselves into Metafilter also dive into Metatalk. A totally random guess is maybe 20%? Which means 80% of the Metafilter population lead sane, happy lives, smelling roses while sipping their favorite drinks, while the other 20% swing from existantial angst (Metafilter dies) to paradisaic ecstasy (Metafilter lives). They just dont know what they miss by not being in the 20%. I'm for the mood swings any day.
posted by Voyageman at 3:50 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by Voyageman at 3:50 PM on January 31, 2002
I've been around long enough to see plenty of people of people come and go, and at first I was kinda bummed that SDB was leaving, but after reading that line "write at my level," I've changed my mind.
That kind of self-appointed guardian of refinement and good taste shtick is the true culprit in a lot of the problems people have been bitching about lately. Everyone of us(and I'm guilty of this too) has held some preconcieved notion of what MeFi "is" or "should be."
But I've come to the conclusion that it's basically a collection of people(generally intelligent) who like to discuss things(generally intelligently). As it's grown bigger the spectrum of topics and the spectrum of people has grown wider in every way. This is a very good thing.
SDB seems to imply that everyone should have to meet some pie-in-the-sky standard that he sees himself bearing. I'd remind him that the word before "weblog" in the title bar is "community" not "club." As new people join the community, it will continue to mutate and I enjoy watching the changes take place.
I, for one, am gonna stay as long as Matt will have me and if I'm the last user out, I promise to turn out the lights.
posted by jonmc at 3:51 PM on January 31, 2002
That kind of self-appointed guardian of refinement and good taste shtick is the true culprit in a lot of the problems people have been bitching about lately. Everyone of us(and I'm guilty of this too) has held some preconcieved notion of what MeFi "is" or "should be."
But I've come to the conclusion that it's basically a collection of people(generally intelligent) who like to discuss things(generally intelligently). As it's grown bigger the spectrum of topics and the spectrum of people has grown wider in every way. This is a very good thing.
SDB seems to imply that everyone should have to meet some pie-in-the-sky standard that he sees himself bearing. I'd remind him that the word before "weblog" in the title bar is "community" not "club." As new people join the community, it will continue to mutate and I enjoy watching the changes take place.
I, for one, am gonna stay as long as Matt will have me and if I'm the last user out, I promise to turn out the lights.
posted by jonmc at 3:51 PM on January 31, 2002
Are you wolfling again, Kaf? I thought you were on that 10-step program....
posted by gleuschk at 3:57 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by gleuschk at 3:57 PM on January 31, 2002
Way upstream, anapestic said:
I agree completely, but to be fair, I think SDB announced his departure on his own page, and not here.
Bingo, and that point seems to have gotten a bit lost in the shuffle. Look, years of online life have left me as weary as anyone of people who choose to leave a community (MeFi, mailing lists, whatever) by conducting a grand-opera fuck-you-all spleen-vent in that same community before storming out with much swirling of capes. (y6y6y6's post would be an example of that.) But heck, if SDB, or Lileks or whoever, wants to use his own weblog as a means of stating opinions about a particular community ... well, I don't see the problem. If we can't vent our spleens in our own weblogs, jeez, what's the use of having them?
I'm all for discussion of the issues that SDB and Lileks raise, but ragging on them personally for using their own personal space to express their own opinions--that seems off to me, and it comes across as defensive. I guess it's natural for people to get defensive when they feel that something they value is being attacked, just as it's natural for someone to be rather bitter when breaking up with a community he's been personally invested in. But if SDB wants to be bitter on his own dime, that's his right, surely; and I don't think that those of us who choose to stay here have any need to be defensive (as distinct from self-questioning, which is always to the good, as far as I'm concerned).
posted by Kat Allison at 3:58 PM on January 31, 2002
I agree completely, but to be fair, I think SDB announced his departure on his own page, and not here.
Bingo, and that point seems to have gotten a bit lost in the shuffle. Look, years of online life have left me as weary as anyone of people who choose to leave a community (MeFi, mailing lists, whatever) by conducting a grand-opera fuck-you-all spleen-vent in that same community before storming out with much swirling of capes. (y6y6y6's post would be an example of that.) But heck, if SDB, or Lileks or whoever, wants to use his own weblog as a means of stating opinions about a particular community ... well, I don't see the problem. If we can't vent our spleens in our own weblogs, jeez, what's the use of having them?
I'm all for discussion of the issues that SDB and Lileks raise, but ragging on them personally for using their own personal space to express their own opinions--that seems off to me, and it comes across as defensive. I guess it's natural for people to get defensive when they feel that something they value is being attacked, just as it's natural for someone to be rather bitter when breaking up with a community he's been personally invested in. But if SDB wants to be bitter on his own dime, that's his right, surely; and I don't think that those of us who choose to stay here have any need to be defensive (as distinct from self-questioning, which is always to the good, as far as I'm concerned).
posted by Kat Allison at 3:58 PM on January 31, 2002
blur rules.
(in case you can't tell, I'm trying to invoke blur's law to kill this thread.)
posted by mcsweetie at 3:59 PM on January 31, 2002
(in case you can't tell, I'm trying to invoke blur's law to kill this thread.)
posted by mcsweetie at 3:59 PM on January 31, 2002
I think that when old-timers quit, their accounts should be hooked up to some sort of random text generator. Then we can pretend they're still with us while laughing at their goofy antics.
posted by whatnotever at 4:01 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by whatnotever at 4:01 PM on January 31, 2002
I leave MetaFilter by walking my network cord into the administrator's office and giving her strict orders to beat me off violently if I come begging.
It works for a couple days until I sneak it off under the guise of a "printing requirement".
posted by dness2 at 4:01 PM on January 31, 2002
It works for a couple days until I sneak it off under the guise of a "printing requirement".
posted by dness2 at 4:01 PM on January 31, 2002
It's a sad, depressed, shaky-hand couple of days, though.
posted by dness2 at 4:06 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by dness2 at 4:06 PM on January 31, 2002
Must...resist...urge to make...."beat me off violently" joke...
posted by Kafkaesque at 4:07 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by Kafkaesque at 4:07 PM on January 31, 2002
Nazis.
There, the thread is Officially Dead now.
Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week (bow).
Please tip your waitstaff.
posted by ebarker at 4:08 PM on January 31, 2002
There, the thread is Officially Dead now.
Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week (bow).
Please tip your waitstaff.
posted by ebarker at 4:08 PM on January 31, 2002
Hey! We joined MeFi on exactly the same day, Ed.
Hug?
posted by Kafkaesque at 4:10 PM on January 31, 2002
Hug?
posted by Kafkaesque at 4:10 PM on January 31, 2002
Metafilter has it's share of snarky, elitist bastards. But so does any large discussion forum. Isn't that a natural consequence of unmoderated, large scale, distributed discussion? Isn't this the same thing that's happened (admittedly on a larger scale) with Usenet, The Well, Slashdot, AOL chatrooms, etc? And isn't Metafilter much better for discussion that those examples?
Then:
Perhaps it's not for everyone, but I really like Metafilter. Since I tend to be a completely over the top asshole in my posts, I'm sure I've been jumped on more than the rest of you put together. I still like it. It's alive and raw and discordian.
Miguel, you're right that those were y6 cubed's words. But if you read what he wrote, you'll find that it is the squasing of the discordian voice that he laments. When we remove the personal vibrancy, is the beast still alive? I'm questioning this.
If this is just a well-informed "USENET", then isn't the strident point of being polite an antiseptic against involvement? There's a lot of smart people here. Why should they be hamstrung by being told that thier personal involvement with what takes place in the world isn't appreciated? There are those like fold_and_mutilate whose will is to berate all who don't agree, and I will be happy to point that out to any who listen. I'll call that one a troll and a jerk, because I see the will behind it. If I have to PC polite in order to comment here, then the jerks (terrorists) have won.
I've said before that strident emotion about emotional issues is not a bad thing. If we try to kill emotion, and just stick to the facts, then we've A) assumed that there are those who really know the facts beyond commom ken, and B) sterilized the fertile ground we grow in.
y6y6y6 wasn't kvetching about snarky elitism. He was kvetching because we haven't found a non-pollyanna way to deal with it.
posted by Wulfgar! at 4:12 PM on January 31, 2002
Then:
Perhaps it's not for everyone, but I really like Metafilter. Since I tend to be a completely over the top asshole in my posts, I'm sure I've been jumped on more than the rest of you put together. I still like it. It's alive and raw and discordian.
Miguel, you're right that those were y6 cubed's words. But if you read what he wrote, you'll find that it is the squasing of the discordian voice that he laments. When we remove the personal vibrancy, is the beast still alive? I'm questioning this.
If this is just a well-informed "USENET", then isn't the strident point of being polite an antiseptic against involvement? There's a lot of smart people here. Why should they be hamstrung by being told that thier personal involvement with what takes place in the world isn't appreciated? There are those like fold_and_mutilate whose will is to berate all who don't agree, and I will be happy to point that out to any who listen. I'll call that one a troll and a jerk, because I see the will behind it. If I have to PC polite in order to comment here, then the jerks (terrorists) have won.
I've said before that strident emotion about emotional issues is not a bad thing. If we try to kill emotion, and just stick to the facts, then we've A) assumed that there are those who really know the facts beyond commom ken, and B) sterilized the fertile ground we grow in.
y6y6y6 wasn't kvetching about snarky elitism. He was kvetching because we haven't found a non-pollyanna way to deal with it.
posted by Wulfgar! at 4:12 PM on January 31, 2002
Kafkaesque, sure.
But no funny stuff.
That'll cost you extra.
posted by ebarker at 4:13 PM on January 31, 2002
But no funny stuff.
That'll cost you extra.
posted by ebarker at 4:13 PM on January 31, 2002
(in case you can't tell, I'm trying to invoke blur's law to kill this thread.)
But... but I like Blur (well some of their songs.)
posted by riffola at 4:18 PM on January 31, 2002
But... but I like Blur (well some of their songs.)
posted by riffola at 4:18 PM on January 31, 2002
The death of MetaFilter - milestone MetaTalk thread number 100, begun on June 14, 2000 (roughly three months and eleven days after the first MetaTalk thread) - posted by y6y6y6.
"If your point is, "You people are ruining Metafilter. Please for the love of God stop now!" I think you are over reacting."posted by anastasiav at 4:22 PM on January 31, 2002
Must...resist...urge
Freud would be so fascinated by that blunder of mine. I claim innocence. But you got me wondering where my head is.
posted by dness2 at 4:31 PM on January 31, 2002
Freud would be so fascinated by that blunder of mine. I claim innocence. But you got me wondering where my head is.
posted by dness2 at 4:31 PM on January 31, 2002
So if metafilter is dead, does that, like, make it a zombie or something? (loud gum smacking in background)
posted by bunnyfire at 4:33 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by bunnyfire at 4:33 PM on January 31, 2002
So fuck you guys, I'm outa here
Anyone else having visions of Cartman?
Screw you guys, I'm going..hooooooooooooome.
posted by adampsyche at 4:57 PM on January 31, 2002
Anyone else having visions of Cartman?
Screw you guys, I'm going..hooooooooooooome.
posted by adampsyche at 4:57 PM on January 31, 2002
That's it...throw someone's words back in his face, be arrogant wankers, dismiss someone's objections. Keep it up. Kill MetaFilter, so people like myself, who don't go there anymore (except when someone we actually respect, like y6y6y6, tells us there's actually a worthwhile thread there) can point and laugh at you.
In case I'm being too fucking polite, I'll put it another way, you conceited crotch-monkeys. Fuck polite when it gets in the way of expressing an emotional verity. He's angry at you because he feels that you're taking something important to him and diluting what was essential. He wants you to know how fed up he is. Martin Luther didn't nail his 99 Thesis to the door of his own house. In fact, I'm thinking y6y6y6 didn't go far enough...he should have posted his outrage right there on the front page of MeFi for you all to read.
Yes, I'm biased. I still read his site. I wouldn't even know about this if someone hadn't pointed me here (and no, it wasn't him, it was Wulfgar! actually) and I'm horrified for him, considering how much he enjoyed the fracas here, to see things turning out this way. To see the raw, alive, discordian beast he so loved turning into a group that treasures being falsely concerned about giving offense, when what it generally is concerned about is the individual who points it out beingoffended. God forbid someone offends you. God forbid someone tried to shake you out of your complacent back-slapping on how smart and literate and politically aware you all are and tries to let you know how damn homogenized it's become here.
Fucking hell. I have no idea what it would take to reach you. I have no idea what would make you care, if what he posted didn't make you stop and think for a second that there might be a problem. Maybe, just maybe, some of us left because we could tell that the majority here didn't take the time to consider someone else's opinions in the rush to sample the world from the safety of their own anal canals.
Die, MetaFilter, die. Die, MetaFilter, die. Die and be damned, that you have turned your back on one of your most beloved sons, who sweated blood on your behalf, who stood in the ford of the river and defended you against all who said you were a pestilent beast, who bent his mind to your service not for gain or hope of it, but merely due to his affection for what he considered your virtues.
There it is. Post some smart-ass comments now that shore up your essential delusions about the quality of your thought and the necessity for your little circle to keep the rest of us on the straight and narrow, while outside, the world will continue on in its inexorable and uncaring march to the extinction that will come, one day, for you. No matter how deluded you are. If you want to talk about culling the herd, look at the way dozens of voices immediately marshall themselves to stifle any dissent, whether it be Den Beste on his own site or y6y6y6 here. You can't bear the idea that someone could disagree with you to the point that you need to fire off quips to analyze how wrong he or she is and how right you all are.
You are the herd. The ones being culled are the ones who don't want to be sheep.
posted by Ezrael at 5:05 PM on January 31, 2002
In case I'm being too fucking polite, I'll put it another way, you conceited crotch-monkeys. Fuck polite when it gets in the way of expressing an emotional verity. He's angry at you because he feels that you're taking something important to him and diluting what was essential. He wants you to know how fed up he is. Martin Luther didn't nail his 99 Thesis to the door of his own house. In fact, I'm thinking y6y6y6 didn't go far enough...he should have posted his outrage right there on the front page of MeFi for you all to read.
Yes, I'm biased. I still read his site. I wouldn't even know about this if someone hadn't pointed me here (and no, it wasn't him, it was Wulfgar! actually) and I'm horrified for him, considering how much he enjoyed the fracas here, to see things turning out this way. To see the raw, alive, discordian beast he so loved turning into a group that treasures being falsely concerned about giving offense, when what it generally is concerned about is the individual who points it out beingoffended. God forbid someone offends you. God forbid someone tried to shake you out of your complacent back-slapping on how smart and literate and politically aware you all are and tries to let you know how damn homogenized it's become here.
Fucking hell. I have no idea what it would take to reach you. I have no idea what would make you care, if what he posted didn't make you stop and think for a second that there might be a problem. Maybe, just maybe, some of us left because we could tell that the majority here didn't take the time to consider someone else's opinions in the rush to sample the world from the safety of their own anal canals.
Die, MetaFilter, die. Die, MetaFilter, die. Die and be damned, that you have turned your back on one of your most beloved sons, who sweated blood on your behalf, who stood in the ford of the river and defended you against all who said you were a pestilent beast, who bent his mind to your service not for gain or hope of it, but merely due to his affection for what he considered your virtues.
There it is. Post some smart-ass comments now that shore up your essential delusions about the quality of your thought and the necessity for your little circle to keep the rest of us on the straight and narrow, while outside, the world will continue on in its inexorable and uncaring march to the extinction that will come, one day, for you. No matter how deluded you are. If you want to talk about culling the herd, look at the way dozens of voices immediately marshall themselves to stifle any dissent, whether it be Den Beste on his own site or y6y6y6 here. You can't bear the idea that someone could disagree with you to the point that you need to fire off quips to analyze how wrong he or she is and how right you all are.
You are the herd. The ones being culled are the ones who don't want to be sheep.
posted by Ezrael at 5:05 PM on January 31, 2002
When posting to MetaFilter the brain is deprived of oxygen
This explains a lot.
posted by SpecialK at 5:16 PM on January 31, 2002
This explains a lot.
posted by SpecialK at 5:16 PM on January 31, 2002
Boo fucking hoo. Cry me a river.
posted by crunchland at 5:17 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by crunchland at 5:17 PM on January 31, 2002
Wow, quite a thread this is turning out to be. Has is now become the fashionable thing to say how unfashionable metafilter has become? And talk about it at great length with big words? Always easier to destroy something than to make it better. Three words: lead ... by ... example. Not lead by complaining. Not lead by telling everyone else to fuck off. Lead by example.
posted by dlewis at 5:30 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by dlewis at 5:30 PM on January 31, 2002
Honey? I'm home from MetaFilter!
I want that on a shirt.
posted by jennak at 5:30 PM on January 31, 2002
I want that on a shirt.
posted by jennak at 5:30 PM on January 31, 2002
Ezrael - Don't hold back or anything, now, tell us how you feel.
All your apocrypha to the contrary, conflict is alive and well, here thank you very much. I've ruffled feathers here and had my feathers ruffled back. For the most part, the mediator types around here just wanna keep it from becoming a bar brawl, which is understandable.
Now go put on your "The end is nigh!" sandwich board and march up and down the main drag, OK?
posted by jonmc at 5:31 PM on January 31, 2002
All your apocrypha to the contrary, conflict is alive and well, here thank you very much. I've ruffled feathers here and had my feathers ruffled back. For the most part, the mediator types around here just wanna keep it from becoming a bar brawl, which is understandable.
Now go put on your "The end is nigh!" sandwich board and march up and down the main drag, OK?
posted by jonmc at 5:31 PM on January 31, 2002
Hey, isn't it the point that we're all different but curious about other members' differences? I'm here to read what others write, 99% of the time, to expand my own paltry windscreen on reality. Why should we all be contrarian or orthodox or rude or polite? Why should there be a standard? MetaFilter's great quality is inclusiveness.
You have to be a real jerk or sociopath to be kicked out. So anything goes. That's the beauty of Matt's conception and the ugliness of SDB's demand for a dictator. You can dictate diversity, respect, curiosity and the widest possible range of feeling and opinion and means of expression.
That's what MetaFilter is. Saying it should be this or that is just an instance, part of its charm. It's picturesque. It's great fun. It's intelligent, funny entertainment. Pray tell: where else do you get this? Nowhere. Let no one of us think he's worth more than the one we think is the worst of us all - is the message I keep getting ever since I started reading this wonderful community.
I swear, if I were a dictator I would fucking prohibit people leaving MetaFilter! :)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:36 PM on January 31, 2002
You have to be a real jerk or sociopath to be kicked out. So anything goes. That's the beauty of Matt's conception and the ugliness of SDB's demand for a dictator. You can dictate diversity, respect, curiosity and the widest possible range of feeling and opinion and means of expression.
That's what MetaFilter is. Saying it should be this or that is just an instance, part of its charm. It's picturesque. It's great fun. It's intelligent, funny entertainment. Pray tell: where else do you get this? Nowhere. Let no one of us think he's worth more than the one we think is the worst of us all - is the message I keep getting ever since I started reading this wonderful community.
I swear, if I were a dictator I would fucking prohibit people leaving MetaFilter! :)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:36 PM on January 31, 2002
You too, Brother Jon! I just read this comment by rushmc on MetaFilter which, well, says it all:
I think that the participants in MetaFilter want a unifying voice, a personality for the forum. --SDB
There is nothing I, personally, want LESS. That's why I frequent Metafilter and NOT personal weblog
He certainly speaks for me!
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:44 PM on January 31, 2002
I think that the participants in MetaFilter want a unifying voice, a personality for the forum. --SDB
There is nothing I, personally, want LESS. That's why I frequent Metafilter and NOT personal weblog
He certainly speaks for me!
posted by MiguelCardoso at 5:44 PM on January 31, 2002
People come and people go. That is the reality. That is as it should be. I hate to see anyone go (well, okay, except aaron), but I won't miss them (much). New voices will come (assuming the door is ever left open).
I was thinking earlier today that there is no doubt a HUGE gap between how each of us believes we come across to the other readers of Metafilter and how we are actually perceived by them. I think there is probably a correlating gap between how much we think we will be missed--or our absence noted--and the reality there, as well. There are few indeed that succeed in garnering fans and enemies Miguel-style. Fame (and notoriety) are fleeting, usually lasting exactly the duration of a single post.
I wish all that feel the site is ruined, misguided, useless, or an affront to all that is good and productive would leave. If it doesn't suit you--and you fail in your efforts to tilt the boat in your favored direction--then why not seek more comfortable pastures, rather than lingering to defecate in this one?
posted by rushmc at 5:48 PM on January 31, 2002
I was thinking earlier today that there is no doubt a HUGE gap between how each of us believes we come across to the other readers of Metafilter and how we are actually perceived by them. I think there is probably a correlating gap between how much we think we will be missed--or our absence noted--and the reality there, as well. There are few indeed that succeed in garnering fans and enemies Miguel-style. Fame (and notoriety) are fleeting, usually lasting exactly the duration of a single post.
I wish all that feel the site is ruined, misguided, useless, or an affront to all that is good and productive would leave. If it doesn't suit you--and you fail in your efforts to tilt the boat in your favored direction--then why not seek more comfortable pastures, rather than lingering to defecate in this one?
posted by rushmc at 5:48 PM on January 31, 2002
"There are few indeed that succeed in garnering fans and enemies Miguel-style. Fame (and notoriety) are fleeting, usually lasting exactly the duration of a single post."-rushmc
True, but freindships and alliances do get formed. Although those can be weirdly transitory as well, I've been in threads with mcsweetie and jpoulos for instance where we were at eachothers throats, then on other days in other threads we've discovered unknown common ground. This to me is truly the neatest thing about the discussion part of MeFi- finding those odd places where seeming opposites can intersect and show you connections you never new existed.
Besides, most of us don't come here looking for fame. Although we do come to be heard.
posted by jonmc at 6:00 PM on January 31, 2002
True, but freindships and alliances do get formed. Although those can be weirdly transitory as well, I've been in threads with mcsweetie and jpoulos for instance where we were at eachothers throats, then on other days in other threads we've discovered unknown common ground. This to me is truly the neatest thing about the discussion part of MeFi- finding those odd places where seeming opposites can intersect and show you connections you never new existed.
Besides, most of us don't come here looking for fame. Although we do come to be heard.
posted by jonmc at 6:00 PM on January 31, 2002
Die and be damned, that you have turned your back on one of your most beloved sons, who sweated blood on your behalf, who stood in the ford of the river and defended you against all who said you were a pestilent beast, who bent his mind to your service not for gain or hope of it, but merely due to his affection for what he considered your virtues.
Huh?
posted by y2karl at 6:10 PM on January 31, 2002
Huh?
posted by y2karl at 6:10 PM on January 31, 2002
y2karl - methinks Ezrael has been reading the Old Testament on peyote. Send him some Shaggs mp3's and maybe he'll mellow out a bit.
posted by jonmc at 6:17 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by jonmc at 6:17 PM on January 31, 2002
damn you fes. beats me too the burnsian. but i choose Moe.
Moe: "Ye-ah, they said the same thin bout France" (Looks left, looks right) -sound a sqeaking glass-
posted by clavdivs at 6:25 PM on January 31, 2002
Moe: "Ye-ah, they said the same thin bout France" (Looks left, looks right) -sound a sqeaking glass-
posted by clavdivs at 6:25 PM on January 31, 2002
"your little circle to keep the rest of us on the straight and narrow, while outside, the world will continue on in its inexorable and uncaring march to the extinction that will come, one day, for you." this transmission brought to you from holgate via remodified nazgul mirror of communication. seems holgate has ditched smeagol and overheard sauron discussing "things" with various elven spies."True, but freindships and alliances do get formed." imagine the minor underworld that could be formed with mefi members...personally the last two weeks of content has been good...still above par with the other 'RA-te guilds.
posted by clavdivs at 6:35 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by clavdivs at 6:35 PM on January 31, 2002
Can I just say I love the Metafilter? Love it to bits. All you MeFolks too. Hugs.
And all you guys with your exeunt stage left soliloquies : you some funny monkeys. Sad and self-absorbed, but funny.
("I tend to think of it as Miguelfilter"? <sarcasm>Hah. That's a new one.</sarcasm>)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:39 PM on January 31, 2002
And all you guys with your exeunt stage left soliloquies : you some funny monkeys. Sad and self-absorbed, but funny.
("I tend to think of it as Miguelfilter"? <sarcasm>Hah. That's a new one.</sarcasm>)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:39 PM on January 31, 2002
Three words: lead ... by ... example. Not lead by complaining. Not lead by telling everyone else to fuck off. Lead by example.
5 words: Bridge on the River Kwai. Leading by example can be as much vanity, and as useless, as screaming in the face of a hard wind.
Let no one of us think he's worth more than the one we think is the worst of us all - is the message I keep getting ever since I started reading this wonderful community.
Miguel, its that kind of pollyanna thought that leads to this very discussion. You've just asked me to put my beliefs and opinions on par with PrivatePartsWingerMcGroin, and Real9, and fold_and_mutilate. Not by a DAMN site, my friend. I'll cast my lot with Aaron and Ezrael and the brutality their vastly differing world views entail before I will accept that my opinion is the equal of those whose rants are baited worthless nothings. Equality and acceptance of the lowest common denominator is precisely what SDB posted of, and shows to be the path this community is following now.
Miguel, I like your presentation here. I think you charming, eloquent and concerned. But holding us all as friendly thoughts denies and denegrates the fact that we are all people, with really deep disagreements in the world, and we see terribly exciting things on the WWW that need to be experienced and shouted about.
If there are those who wish to say "MeFi doesn't pay attention to me, so I'm leaving", then fine. Those would be the ones who say "you're all just liberal and PC, and I don't like you anymore" like Lileks. But when there are those who say "MeFi isn't paying due attention to itself, and its corrupt from within", then maybe its time to pay a little attention, yes? Kottke did it, and some listened. Why can't others say the same and be afforded the same respect?
y2karl, Ezrael was reffering to y6y6y6. Read some of his posts, and your query might be answered.
posted by Wulfgar! at 6:54 PM on January 31, 2002
5 words: Bridge on the River Kwai. Leading by example can be as much vanity, and as useless, as screaming in the face of a hard wind.
Let no one of us think he's worth more than the one we think is the worst of us all - is the message I keep getting ever since I started reading this wonderful community.
Miguel, its that kind of pollyanna thought that leads to this very discussion. You've just asked me to put my beliefs and opinions on par with PrivatePartsWingerMcGroin, and Real9, and fold_and_mutilate. Not by a DAMN site, my friend. I'll cast my lot with Aaron and Ezrael and the brutality their vastly differing world views entail before I will accept that my opinion is the equal of those whose rants are baited worthless nothings. Equality and acceptance of the lowest common denominator is precisely what SDB posted of, and shows to be the path this community is following now.
Miguel, I like your presentation here. I think you charming, eloquent and concerned. But holding us all as friendly thoughts denies and denegrates the fact that we are all people, with really deep disagreements in the world, and we see terribly exciting things on the WWW that need to be experienced and shouted about.
If there are those who wish to say "MeFi doesn't pay attention to me, so I'm leaving", then fine. Those would be the ones who say "you're all just liberal and PC, and I don't like you anymore" like Lileks. But when there are those who say "MeFi isn't paying due attention to itself, and its corrupt from within", then maybe its time to pay a little attention, yes? Kottke did it, and some listened. Why can't others say the same and be afforded the same respect?
y2karl, Ezrael was reffering to y6y6y6. Read some of his posts, and your query might be answered.
posted by Wulfgar! at 6:54 PM on January 31, 2002
you guys... y6y6y6 has GOT to be kidding. i was laughing hysterically and then i read what your reactions, and i was stunned.
it's like college or music - the people change, the ideas change, and then everything comes around again. nobody can be happy all of the time. when something grows it changes, probably in some ways it's worse. but i'd imagine that as the new people get the hang of it (or discover metatalk) it will come up in quality again. i mean there has recently been this enormous surge in membership.
i won't personally miss sdb; i like the idea of unclefes(hi!) running the conservative wing...
i read metafilter every day right now, and then i stop reading it for a few months, and then i read it every day - and i'm thinking that a lot of people do likewise.
the way that mat runs metafilter rocks. we all love him, and when he posts we are all so happy and so excited to hear from him. he's like a faroff god, kind of like the big giant head . so let them go and spout their venom elsewhere; i really like it here in cardosaville.
posted by goneill at 6:54 PM on January 31, 2002
it's like college or music - the people change, the ideas change, and then everything comes around again. nobody can be happy all of the time. when something grows it changes, probably in some ways it's worse. but i'd imagine that as the new people get the hang of it (or discover metatalk) it will come up in quality again. i mean there has recently been this enormous surge in membership.
i won't personally miss sdb; i like the idea of unclefes(hi!) running the conservative wing...
i read metafilter every day right now, and then i stop reading it for a few months, and then i read it every day - and i'm thinking that a lot of people do likewise.
the way that mat runs metafilter rocks. we all love him, and when he posts we are all so happy and so excited to hear from him. he's like a faroff god, kind of like the big giant head . so let them go and spout their venom elsewhere; i really like it here in cardosaville.
posted by goneill at 6:54 PM on January 31, 2002
SIDE SHOT | Matt | laughing hysterically
FULL FOCUS | server | buzzing with smoke coming from back...
AUDIO | Matt | Will these people ever learn how to control themselves??? WHEN will they learn???
AUDIO | server | Matt? Can I smoke them back NOW???
AUDIO | Matt | yeah, I'm tired of this crap... DO IT!
VISUAL MONTAGE | 13000+ users | eyes agast, hair frayed, fingers being fried while desperately hitting reload/refresh repeatedly
BACKGROUND AUDIO | Matt & server | Matt: FRIGGIN IDIOTS THOUGHT I WOULDN'T DO IT!
server: (in rasping voice) man that felt good! was it good for you Matt?
FADE OUT... to???????????
<comment>I don't know Matt, don't you get tired of it??? But it's become too big to just smack with one hand now...</comment>
posted by tilt at 7:05 PM on January 31, 2002
FULL FOCUS | server | buzzing with smoke coming from back...
AUDIO | Matt | Will these people ever learn how to control themselves??? WHEN will they learn???
AUDIO | server | Matt? Can I smoke them back NOW???
AUDIO | Matt | yeah, I'm tired of this crap... DO IT!
VISUAL MONTAGE | 13000+ users | eyes agast, hair frayed, fingers being fried while desperately hitting reload/refresh repeatedly
BACKGROUND AUDIO | Matt & server | Matt: FRIGGIN IDIOTS THOUGHT I WOULDN'T DO IT!
server: (in rasping voice) man that felt good! was it good for you Matt?
FADE OUT... to???????????
<comment>I don't know Matt, don't you get tired of it??? But it's become too big to just smack with one hand now...</comment>
posted by tilt at 7:05 PM on January 31, 2002
Miguel: how do you ask has Mefi Jumped the Web Shark yet in Porch o'geese?
(let's see if he understands this one....muhahahah)
posted by ParisParamus at 7:10 PM on January 31, 2002
(let's see if he understands this one....muhahahah)
posted by ParisParamus at 7:10 PM on January 31, 2002
O filtro do meta saltou o tubarão da correia fotorreceptora ainda?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 7:12 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by mr_crash_davis at 7:12 PM on January 31, 2002
Google translation rocks.
Retranslated:
the filter of the goal still jumped the Tubarão of the fotorreceptora leather strap?
[cackle type = "hysterical"]
posted by mr_crash_davis at 7:14 PM on January 31, 2002
Retranslated:
the filter of the goal still jumped the Tubarão of the fotorreceptora leather strap?
[cackle type = "hysterical"]
posted by mr_crash_davis at 7:14 PM on January 31, 2002
as the saying goes....any jackass can kick down a barn....to build one it takes a carpenter...
mefi like every other place de web has its cycles, its ebb and flow......that is just the cycle of life....so on the count of three-everybody go to the medicine cabinet, take a midol, and everything should be just fine.
posted by bunnyfire at 7:17 PM on January 31, 2002
mefi like every other place de web has its cycles, its ebb and flow......that is just the cycle of life....so on the count of three-everybody go to the medicine cabinet, take a midol, and everything should be just fine.
posted by bunnyfire at 7:17 PM on January 31, 2002
Actually, reading the Old Testament while on peyote is a fascinating experience, and one I greatly appreciated. I don't recommend it, but if you're willing to risk having your worldview messed with a little, it has its merits.
And it isn't that conflict is missing, oh my no. The problem is how that conflict is put to use. Is it used to generate discussion, express genuine opinions, all that kind of thing? The fact that, of all people, y6y6y6 (who has proselytized for MeFi more than anyone I know) is beginning to see the cracks should be telling you something. It's one thing when I say it, because my posts here are often caused when someone else posts something so aggravating that I have to rant or go mad. And it's easy to ignore it when one person says they find a deep problem right at the heart of a forum you frequent, to dismiss them as an arrogant crank...but when it happens again and again and again, and when people who were once the truest of true believers begin to express doubts about the direction you're going in, it might be a good idea to examine it.
The only conflicts I can see on MeFi now are all about ego gratification, about proving who can come up with the best quip in the shortest time, and about holding up the standard of your argument against all odds rather than using the process of argument to examine whether your opinion is as valid as you'd like to think.
Does it matter when someone leaves? Not really. But when someone who believes as strongly as y6y6y6 does in this place questions it, that's like the Pope suddenly saying "You know, Catholicism's gotten kinda stale lately."
As for exit stage left soliloquies...well, you can belittle people for saying how they feel all you want, but at least they have the nerve to tell you when they think things have hit the fan. I don't have that kind of nerve, so I admire anyone else who does. It's probably why I keep getting sucked back into this quagmire.
posted by Ezrael at 7:25 PM on January 31, 2002
And it isn't that conflict is missing, oh my no. The problem is how that conflict is put to use. Is it used to generate discussion, express genuine opinions, all that kind of thing? The fact that, of all people, y6y6y6 (who has proselytized for MeFi more than anyone I know) is beginning to see the cracks should be telling you something. It's one thing when I say it, because my posts here are often caused when someone else posts something so aggravating that I have to rant or go mad. And it's easy to ignore it when one person says they find a deep problem right at the heart of a forum you frequent, to dismiss them as an arrogant crank...but when it happens again and again and again, and when people who were once the truest of true believers begin to express doubts about the direction you're going in, it might be a good idea to examine it.
The only conflicts I can see on MeFi now are all about ego gratification, about proving who can come up with the best quip in the shortest time, and about holding up the standard of your argument against all odds rather than using the process of argument to examine whether your opinion is as valid as you'd like to think.
Does it matter when someone leaves? Not really. But when someone who believes as strongly as y6y6y6 does in this place questions it, that's like the Pope suddenly saying "You know, Catholicism's gotten kinda stale lately."
As for exit stage left soliloquies...well, you can belittle people for saying how they feel all you want, but at least they have the nerve to tell you when they think things have hit the fan. I don't have that kind of nerve, so I admire anyone else who does. It's probably why I keep getting sucked back into this quagmire.
posted by Ezrael at 7:25 PM on January 31, 2002
SDB: I would never want Mefi to become what he wants. How awful, le site. c'est moi. Ick.
posted by ParisParamus at 7:41 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by ParisParamus at 7:41 PM on January 31, 2002
owillis rests back in his seat. Looks at the 24-high stack of pancakes. Caresses the rear end of Mrs. Butterworth, strokes the hair of Aunt Jemima...
"Pancakes?"
posted by owillis at 7:53 PM on January 31, 2002
"Pancakes?"
posted by owillis at 7:53 PM on January 31, 2002
Ezrael - Me dismissing anyone her as an arrogant crank would be a case of the pot calling the kettle black, so I won't venture an opinion as to your character.
"The only conflicts I can see on MeFi now are all about ego gratification,"
To some maybe, but not to me. Many of the threads I get involved are subjects I have passionate(and unpopular) opinions and beliefs about. MeFi, to a large degree is my only outlet to discourse on these subjects with people who have half an idea what I'm talking about.
Now if you're saying that there is a certain contingent here that's more interested in being hipper-than-thou and and holding intellectual and moral pissing contests than in actually considering the merits of the opposing point of view than you have a point.
I've bumped against this a few times myself. And i've deleted many a flaming post rather than sink into the quagmire. Instead, I'll just try and state my point cogently and hope someone's listening for my point and not just sharpening their rapier for a response. This is what we should be doing, right?
Other posts, like those about music or ice cream or sports are well, merely fun. Even though discusssions trailing from them can sometimes revael deeper questions as well.
Now surely there is some dross floating around lately, but there's also some nuggets left if you look deeply and stay patient, which is why I'm not ready to give up yet.
posted by jonmc at 8:44 PM on January 31, 2002
"The only conflicts I can see on MeFi now are all about ego gratification,"
To some maybe, but not to me. Many of the threads I get involved are subjects I have passionate(and unpopular) opinions and beliefs about. MeFi, to a large degree is my only outlet to discourse on these subjects with people who have half an idea what I'm talking about.
Now if you're saying that there is a certain contingent here that's more interested in being hipper-than-thou and and holding intellectual and moral pissing contests than in actually considering the merits of the opposing point of view than you have a point.
I've bumped against this a few times myself. And i've deleted many a flaming post rather than sink into the quagmire. Instead, I'll just try and state my point cogently and hope someone's listening for my point and not just sharpening their rapier for a response. This is what we should be doing, right?
Other posts, like those about music or ice cream or sports are well, merely fun. Even though discusssions trailing from them can sometimes revael deeper questions as well.
Now surely there is some dross floating around lately, but there's also some nuggets left if you look deeply and stay patient, which is why I'm not ready to give up yet.
posted by jonmc at 8:44 PM on January 31, 2002
fuck this scene. i'm out of here. thanks for ruining it, jerks.
posted by jcterminal at 8:51 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by jcterminal at 8:51 PM on January 31, 2002
ok. i'm back. did my cry for attention work?
posted by jcterminal at 8:52 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by jcterminal at 8:52 PM on January 31, 2002
i like metafilter. i like metatalk. i like a lot of the people here. i even liked sdb (and still go to his page.). i like getting a chance to chime in every now and then with a comment or two, that probably only one or two people will find funny.
i hope metafilter doesn't go away for a while. please don't make me set some other site to load up as my home page. it just wouldn't be right.
also, y2karl, if i had an extra "#1 in the hood" award to give out today, you'd get it.
posted by lotsofno at 8:52 PM on January 31, 2002
i hope metafilter doesn't go away for a while. please don't make me set some other site to load up as my home page. it just wouldn't be right.
also, y2karl, if i had an extra "#1 in the hood" award to give out today, you'd get it.
posted by lotsofno at 8:52 PM on January 31, 2002
i won't personally miss sdb; i like the idea of unclefes(hi!) running the conservative wing...
When I come to power, dear Goneill, your name will be on the protected list, and no harm will come to you.
In the meantime, will you guys LIGHTEN?? Take a look at the level of discourse today compared to (oh, I dunno, lemme think, hmmm...) say, September 15. It was a brutal partisan slugfest for six solid weeks around here after the Towers - blood and vomit and tears and screaming. Capital Letters everywhere. Namecalling. Fingerpointing. Mewling and hissing. Trolls weren't just indulged and fed, they were coddled and championed. Things are 10x better today than they were then, and continually improving. If SDB wants to take a walk, who are we to stop him?
posted by UncleFes at 8:59 PM on January 31, 2002
When I come to power, dear Goneill, your name will be on the protected list, and no harm will come to you.
In the meantime, will you guys LIGHTEN?? Take a look at the level of discourse today compared to (oh, I dunno, lemme think, hmmm...) say, September 15. It was a brutal partisan slugfest for six solid weeks around here after the Towers - blood and vomit and tears and screaming. Capital Letters everywhere. Namecalling. Fingerpointing. Mewling and hissing. Trolls weren't just indulged and fed, they were coddled and championed. Things are 10x better today than they were then, and continually improving. If SDB wants to take a walk, who are we to stop him?
posted by UncleFes at 8:59 PM on January 31, 2002
Wow, never a dull moment here, is there?
And they'll be back. They always come back.
*tie elastic around arm*
posted by solistrato at 9:01 PM on January 31, 2002
And they'll be back. They always come back.
*tie elastic around arm*
posted by solistrato at 9:01 PM on January 31, 2002
*Fes drags away a single tear from his cheek with one scarred knuckle and slowly shrugs out of his black leather jacket, chains and zippers ajangle. He takes a thick wooden hanger from an ancient wardrobe, from amid the maroon parachute pants, the Members Only jacket, the Jethro Tull shirts, and slowly drags the heavy cowskin across the bar. Inexorably, with obvious heavy heart, he places his colors into the wardrobe where, just before the massy oaken doors meet each other smoothly with a muffled-but-audible click, the silken blazon on the back is clearly visible: "Den Beste Boys." [pause] The Segway parked out back was still there in the morning, but of Fes no trace was found.*
posted by UncleFes at 9:14 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by UncleFes at 9:14 PM on January 31, 2002
I joined recently, in MeFi years (post sept 11th), and have to say that I can't make much head or tail of what the issue is here. Are SDB and Lileks and y6y6y6 all complaining over the same thing? First we have people complaining about snarky anti-Bush comments, and crude anti-religious sentiments, and calling that the death of metafilter, and then we have people decrying the public discouragement of such sentiments to be the death of metafilter. Then we have a widespread despair over the lowering of the discourse (knee jerk arguments! juvenile tone! naughty words, etc.), and coupled with complaints over incessant self-policing. I'm confused. Also, why in the world does everyone pay so much attention to Miguel? He seems pretty much like most posters here.
[Weirdly, I didn't realize that y6y6y6 and Ezrael were serious. I read them as parody. (jeez, maybe newbies should stay the heck out of MetaTalk)]
posted by Charmian at 9:33 PM on January 31, 2002
[Weirdly, I didn't realize that y6y6y6 and Ezrael were serious. I read them as parody. (jeez, maybe newbies should stay the heck out of MetaTalk)]
posted by Charmian at 9:33 PM on January 31, 2002
Must...resist...urge to make...."beat me off violently" joke...
I forgot to tell you, Kafkaesque, how close I came to doing just that earlier today before I scrolled down to your comment.
posted by y2karl at 9:43 PM on January 31, 2002
I forgot to tell you, Kafkaesque, how close I came to doing just that earlier today before I scrolled down to your comment.
posted by y2karl at 9:43 PM on January 31, 2002
Instead, I'll just try and state my point cogently and hope someone's listening for my point and not just sharpening their rapier for a response. This is what we should be doing, right?
It's an mc thing, methinks... ;)
posted by rushmc at 9:48 PM on January 31, 2002
It's an mc thing, methinks... ;)
posted by rushmc at 9:48 PM on January 31, 2002
Also, why in the world does everyone pay so much attention to Miguel?
Because he refuses to drop neatly into one of the narrowly defined categories set up to accommodate MeFi users, daring to mock us repeatedly with his DIFFERENTNESS.
Damn him!!!
posted by rushmc at 9:50 PM on January 31, 2002
Because he refuses to drop neatly into one of the narrowly defined categories set up to accommodate MeFi users, daring to mock us repeatedly with his DIFFERENTNESS.
Damn him!!!
posted by rushmc at 9:50 PM on January 31, 2002
Must...resist...urge to make... "how close I came to doing just that earlier today" joke...
posted by riffola at 10:02 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by riffola at 10:02 PM on January 31, 2002
so on the count of three-everybody go to the medicine cabinet, take a midol, and everything should be just fine.
I DO wish you would quit advocating that people mediate their emotional responses through self-medication...Not only is it an ineffectual and inappropriate strategy, but I don't think my brain could take the stress if I had to expand my worldview to encompass "born-again pusher."
posted by rushmc at 10:07 PM on January 31, 2002
I DO wish you would quit advocating that people mediate their emotional responses through self-medication...Not only is it an ineffectual and inappropriate strategy, but I don't think my brain could take the stress if I had to expand my worldview to encompass "born-again pusher."
posted by rushmc at 10:07 PM on January 31, 2002
Picturing SDB glued this thread all day, frantically hitting "Refresh".
posted by Optamystic at 10:07 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by Optamystic at 10:07 PM on January 31, 2002
Ezrael-For what it's worth, I really really really liked your post. I liked what you had to say, the way you said it and the meaning behind every word. Did you ruffle any feathers? Maybe, but I, for one, would welcome my feathers to be ruffled in such a great manner. If you read any sarcasm into this, don't.
What a thread! Now this is why I love MeFi.
posted by ashbury at 10:13 PM on January 31, 2002
What a thread! Now this is why I love MeFi.
posted by ashbury at 10:13 PM on January 31, 2002
I hate to see SBD, lieliks and y6^3 go (especially Jon, whom I hope will be at sxsw this year so I can finally meet him), but these things have a cycle. I was just looking at a 2 year old thread this morning and saw all sorts of names I missed (funny enough, but Matt (Ezrael) was one of them, before this thread started, freaky no?). People come and go, I think the site has grown pretty big and sort of moved onto new people. It's like saturday night live. Chevy Chase and Garret Morris are long gone, and the new crowd isn't as entertaining, but there's still something worth watching. Perhaps there will be more spinoff shows for the old guard.
sjc sez:
And they'll be back. They always come back
How many times did you quit in a blaze of glory on the forcefeed list? :)
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:24 PM on January 31, 2002
sjc sez:
And they'll be back. They always come back
How many times did you quit in a blaze of glory on the forcefeed list? :)
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:24 PM on January 31, 2002
Can I come back and host sometime? As long as Britney is the musical guest, that is.
posted by owillis at 10:28 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by owillis at 10:28 PM on January 31, 2002
I just figured it out. "The demise of Metafilter" is the latest meme! (Coming soon to a weblog near you....)
posted by Lynsey at 10:53 PM on January 31, 2002
posted by Lynsey at 10:53 PM on January 31, 2002
you can belittle people for saying how they feel all you want, but at least they have the nerve to tell you when they think things have hit the fan.
I'm not belittling anyone for speaking their mind, or at least that wasn't my intention. I was just playing on the 'conceited crotch-monkeys' vitriol you were spewing, my friend. I want folks to tell me what they think, about Metafilter, about pretty much anything. If I'm not interested, I'll stop listening.
But what I am quite happy to belittle is prima donnas who flutter and pose and wail on their way out the door. Boring, self-involved, and lame. Stay, help make it better, is probably the best outcome for everyone, but if you really stand behind the 'crotch monkey' crack, just leave, and try and do it with a modicum of dignity.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:50 PM on January 31, 2002
I'm not belittling anyone for speaking their mind, or at least that wasn't my intention. I was just playing on the 'conceited crotch-monkeys' vitriol you were spewing, my friend. I want folks to tell me what they think, about Metafilter, about pretty much anything. If I'm not interested, I'll stop listening.
But what I am quite happy to belittle is prima donnas who flutter and pose and wail on their way out the door. Boring, self-involved, and lame. Stay, help make it better, is probably the best outcome for everyone, but if you really stand behind the 'crotch monkey' crack, just leave, and try and do it with a modicum of dignity.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:50 PM on January 31, 2002
Jane-you-ignorant-slut.
It don't get better than that.
posted by dness2 at 12:22 AM on February 1, 2002
It don't get better than that.
posted by dness2 at 12:22 AM on February 1, 2002
I love it here. Each nite while I squint at the screen and scroll away my boyfriend sings his "Addicted to Metafilter" theme song. Then I punch him. "Ouch", he says.
Sometimes, the little petty squabbles get me down. But the nice thing about the internet is you can just move along, if that's your choice. It's not like we all work in an office together, and have to listen endlessly to the squabbling factions and are driven to madness so we poison each other's coffee. Right? (refers to metafiler user map, takes out pushpins and rubs hands together...)
posted by kittyloop at 12:45 AM on February 1, 2002
Sometimes, the little petty squabbles get me down. But the nice thing about the internet is you can just move along, if that's your choice. It's not like we all work in an office together, and have to listen endlessly to the squabbling factions and are driven to madness so we poison each other's coffee. Right? (refers to metafiler user map, takes out pushpins and rubs hands together...)
posted by kittyloop at 12:45 AM on February 1, 2002
Picturing SDB glued this thread all day, frantically hitting "Refresh".
Nah, he set up a script to page him whenever something new comes up.
posted by j.edwards at 12:52 AM on February 1, 2002
Nah, he set up a script to page him whenever something new comes up.
posted by j.edwards at 12:52 AM on February 1, 2002
Stavros - Actually, like I said, I was trying to offend you. I'm glad it worked.
To be honest, I've been giving MetaFilter the miss for a while now, for my own health's sake. I'm not kidding when I say that I sometimes would get so angry here that I would unload streams of invective and then find myself shuddering, almost palsied with rage. And I do believe, most sincerly, that if y6y6y6 feels that MeFi has no place for him anymore, than MeFi is in serious trouble. But you'll note, Stavros, that I have never made any goodbye, assholes speeches. I simply stopped posting.
But what I am quite happy to belittle is prima donnas who flutter and pose and wail on their way out the door. Boring, self-involved, and lame. Stay, help make it better, is probably the best outcome for everyone, but if you really stand behind the 'crotch monkey' crack, just leave, and try and do it with a modicum of dignity.
Again, I'm not the one making a grand departure...I simply admire Den Beste for having the heart to tell everyone what he thinks and why. As for y6y6y6...no man has ever been less a prima donna in his life, and his decision to depart something he has invested so much time defending is shocking to me. I have spent hours giving him crap about MeFi, and he always, always, always defended it. When someone like that decides he's had enough, and the first post after he says so, someone's reaction is can I have your user number? then I'll damn well call that situation one that calls for some harsh language.
In other words, fuck dignity.
Dignity can be a grand thing, and it can be just another way people try to force compliance on you. I'm not big on compliance or community standards or any other lever someone tries to use to get me to moderate my opinion or attenuate my anger. There's a big difference between being a prima donna and simply being fed up, and like I said before, if you're trying to tell people that you're pissed at them, you tell them. That's what y6y6y6 did...he got fed up, and he told you all. Directly. Right here in this thread. Nothing prima donna happened. As for me, I'm unconcerned with conceptions of dignity. Most of the great people who have lived on this earth were unafraid to be undignified when it suited them, and while I'm just a loudmouthed asshole, I can at least eschew with such an ephemeral concept as dignity in a world that will eventually reduce me to a pile of bones with a big stupid looking grin on my ossified face.
I post when I feel like it or can stand it. I go away when I can't. I don't make any goodbye speeches, because I know I'll be back when it suits me. But I do admire those that have the will and the courage to say how they really feel and take what comes.
Ashbury - Okay, I won't.
posted by Ezrael at 12:56 AM on February 1, 2002
To be honest, I've been giving MetaFilter the miss for a while now, for my own health's sake. I'm not kidding when I say that I sometimes would get so angry here that I would unload streams of invective and then find myself shuddering, almost palsied with rage. And I do believe, most sincerly, that if y6y6y6 feels that MeFi has no place for him anymore, than MeFi is in serious trouble. But you'll note, Stavros, that I have never made any goodbye, assholes speeches. I simply stopped posting.
But what I am quite happy to belittle is prima donnas who flutter and pose and wail on their way out the door. Boring, self-involved, and lame. Stay, help make it better, is probably the best outcome for everyone, but if you really stand behind the 'crotch monkey' crack, just leave, and try and do it with a modicum of dignity.
Again, I'm not the one making a grand departure...I simply admire Den Beste for having the heart to tell everyone what he thinks and why. As for y6y6y6...no man has ever been less a prima donna in his life, and his decision to depart something he has invested so much time defending is shocking to me. I have spent hours giving him crap about MeFi, and he always, always, always defended it. When someone like that decides he's had enough, and the first post after he says so, someone's reaction is can I have your user number? then I'll damn well call that situation one that calls for some harsh language.
In other words, fuck dignity.
Dignity can be a grand thing, and it can be just another way people try to force compliance on you. I'm not big on compliance or community standards or any other lever someone tries to use to get me to moderate my opinion or attenuate my anger. There's a big difference between being a prima donna and simply being fed up, and like I said before, if you're trying to tell people that you're pissed at them, you tell them. That's what y6y6y6 did...he got fed up, and he told you all. Directly. Right here in this thread. Nothing prima donna happened. As for me, I'm unconcerned with conceptions of dignity. Most of the great people who have lived on this earth were unafraid to be undignified when it suited them, and while I'm just a loudmouthed asshole, I can at least eschew with such an ephemeral concept as dignity in a world that will eventually reduce me to a pile of bones with a big stupid looking grin on my ossified face.
I post when I feel like it or can stand it. I go away when I can't. I don't make any goodbye speeches, because I know I'll be back when it suits me. But I do admire those that have the will and the courage to say how they really feel and take what comes.
Ashbury - Okay, I won't.
posted by Ezrael at 12:56 AM on February 1, 2002
Talk, talk, talk, Read, read, read. Go, go, go. Everything is as it should be.
As long as the eyes and the words end up here on MetaFilter everything is dandy. It's silence which terrifies me. When Holgate left, you just knew he'd never come back.
These yackers and multiple-paragraphers who go on and on about how they're no longer going to go on and never shut up about how silent they've become, are now officially and demonstrably no better - and no less loyal in their own twisted way - than us loyalists.
Although one simple plea of "oh please stay!" would have been enough to keep the lot of them. ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 1:18 AM on February 1, 2002
As long as the eyes and the words end up here on MetaFilter everything is dandy. It's silence which terrifies me. When Holgate left, you just knew he'd never come back.
These yackers and multiple-paragraphers who go on and on about how they're no longer going to go on and never shut up about how silent they've become, are now officially and demonstrably no better - and no less loyal in their own twisted way - than us loyalists.
Although one simple plea of "oh please stay!" would have been enough to keep the lot of them. ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 1:18 AM on February 1, 2002
It seems to me that the much of the reason that Den Beste left was that he had his own blog and his own forum, and a sort of larger warblogger community concerned with the stuff he was interested in. Having a forum he could shape and that followed his interests quite exactly meant that he no longer had much use for Metafilter. Good for him, but given that most people don't want what he wants, I don't see how it really applies to Metafilter, because he seems to be complaining about one of the major pillars of the idea.
Also, I think it takes a special kind of mental strength to be dignified and to control one's emotions as well. I see too much valorization of the rant on the Internet. I like to rant, but it is often so much mental masturbation, no more praiseworthy than the snarking that goes on in Metafilter. Ranting is fun, but often uncontrolled expression just leads to flamewars and expression for the sake of expression, which derails communication. There is honest expression of ideas, sure, but often the need to be sincere shades into the wish to shock and provoke, which shades into trollery. [/pretension]
posted by Charmian at 1:38 AM on February 1, 2002
Also, I think it takes a special kind of mental strength to be dignified and to control one's emotions as well. I see too much valorization of the rant on the Internet. I like to rant, but it is often so much mental masturbation, no more praiseworthy than the snarking that goes on in Metafilter. Ranting is fun, but often uncontrolled expression just leads to flamewars and expression for the sake of expression, which derails communication. There is honest expression of ideas, sure, but often the need to be sincere shades into the wish to shock and provoke, which shades into trollery. [/pretension]
posted by Charmian at 1:38 AM on February 1, 2002
You know, we'd end our dependence on Mideast oil and save the Artic Preserve if we could harness the hot air in this thread. I'm thinking that the imminent death of MetaFilter predicted is not unrelated to the reaction a certain recent Hiawatha post got--and deservedly so: what a pile of stinkin' crap that was--whatever pompous and noble spin was put on it elsewhere. And as for y6y6y6's suttee on the pyre of the self-important SDB, especially when it's mostly about the God given right to be able to say poop in front of the ladies, well, jeez, Dr. y2karl prescribes a little ego reduction surgery for all parties involved, please. As for long bag o'winded eschewals of dignity, well, mission accomplished right out the gate. As well as any chance of being taken seriously, it goes without saying...
Must I quote Thoreau again: We would rather speak than be heard.
And unfortunately at length, in a certain style. Ayiyiyiy...
posted by y2karl at 1:54 AM on February 1, 2002
Must I quote Thoreau again: We would rather speak than be heard.
And unfortunately at length, in a certain style. Ayiyiyiy...
posted by y2karl at 1:54 AM on February 1, 2002
I was trying to offend you. I'm glad it worked.
Troll. Type-specimen, at that.
I sometimes would get so angry here that I would unload streams of invective and then find myself shuddering, almost palsied with rage
Mate, get some help. Seriously.
the first post after he says so, someone's reaction is can I have your user number?
Thanks for reminding me---Pesty, if you get his, can I have your old one? Thanks. :-)
I can at least eschew with such an ephemeral concept as dignity in a world
Sure, but if you want to be understood you probably should not eschew with grammar.
posted by sennoma at 3:37 AM on February 1, 2002
Troll. Type-specimen, at that.
I sometimes would get so angry here that I would unload streams of invective and then find myself shuddering, almost palsied with rage
Mate, get some help. Seriously.
the first post after he says so, someone's reaction is can I have your user number?
Thanks for reminding me---Pesty, if you get his, can I have your old one? Thanks. :-)
I can at least eschew with such an ephemeral concept as dignity in a world
Sure, but if you want to be understood you probably should not eschew with grammar.
posted by sennoma at 3:37 AM on February 1, 2002
"I don't think my brain could take the stress if I had to expand my worldview to encompass "born-again pusher."
Let me relieve your anxiety....the Midol reference was simply a clumsy metaphor for the fact that the entire mefi tribe is acting as if it has a collective case of PMS.(please don't make me have to explain that any further?)
Of course if you are still shaky I have some leftover zoloft I have no use for but you will need a prescription........ :-p
posted by bunnyfire at 5:01 AM on February 1, 2002
Let me relieve your anxiety....the Midol reference was simply a clumsy metaphor for the fact that the entire mefi tribe is acting as if it has a collective case of PMS.(please don't make me have to explain that any further?)
Of course if you are still shaky I have some leftover zoloft I have no use for but you will need a prescription........ :-p
posted by bunnyfire at 5:01 AM on February 1, 2002
Looking at the threads on the front page for the last couple of days, I'm not sure what everyone is so wound up about. There's still some good stuff out there, both discussion and links. Still more than enough to keep me engaged. Political discussions will usually polarise, but it's simple to stop reading. I sense a sniff of huff in these closing rants. With just a hint of projection.
posted by walrus at 5:18 AM on February 1, 2002
posted by walrus at 5:18 AM on February 1, 2002
Ezrael: I sometimes would get so angry here that I would unload streams of invective and then find myself shuddering, almost palsied with rage
Sennoma: Mate, get some help. Seriously.
An extreme reaction, I agree, but don't you see that your reply exemplifies exactly the drive for sterilized interaction Matt's posts are decrying?
posted by Nothing at 5:48 AM on February 1, 2002
Sennoma: Mate, get some help. Seriously.
An extreme reaction, I agree, but don't you see that your reply exemplifies exactly the drive for sterilized interaction Matt's posts are decrying?
posted by Nothing at 5:48 AM on February 1, 2002
It's like saturday night live. Chevy Chase and Garret Morris are long gone, and the new crowd isn't as entertaining, but there's still something worth watching
Here as with SNL , the so called "new crowd" is as entertaining, if not more IMHO. I watched every X-file episode, then Alias popped up, and now I watch her. The cycle of birth, life, death, birth is plain human nature, and wonderful.
posted by Voyageman at 6:12 AM on February 1, 2002
Here as with SNL , the so called "new crowd" is as entertaining, if not more IMHO. I watched every X-file episode, then Alias popped up, and now I watch her. The cycle of birth, life, death, birth is plain human nature, and wonderful.
posted by Voyageman at 6:12 AM on February 1, 2002
Nothing: If the guy wants better replies, he should bring his operatic aria to a close and start communicating like a real person again. All these histrionics remind me of the hep cat track star Kathleen Turner fell for in Peggy Sue Got Married:
"I can't wait to get out of here. I'm gonna write. I'm gonna check out of this bourgeois motel. Push myself away from the dinner table and say 'No more Jell—O brand gelatin for me, Mom!'"
posted by rcade at 6:25 AM on February 1, 2002
"I can't wait to get out of here. I'm gonna write. I'm gonna check out of this bourgeois motel. Push myself away from the dinner table and say 'No more Jell—O brand gelatin for me, Mom!'"
posted by rcade at 6:25 AM on February 1, 2002
When someone like that decides he's had enough,
"Someone like that." What are you, his boyfriend? Jon can speak for himself, and often has, without a PR person to blow his horn. I like him, he pisses me off sometimes, he's leaving, I'll miss him, too bad.What else is there to say? Life goes on.
and the first post after he says so, someone's reaction is can I have your user number?
That was the funniest, and the healthiest, thing anyone has said in this thread. It's exactly the same sort of irreverent tweak Jon would have delivered on one of his better days. Your rage, on the other hand, is simply more of the same scolding attempts to dictate what people should be feeling that Jon has decried above. It is boring, like you, like every one of your rambling, enraged Metafilter screeds in my memory. One reads (skims), rolls one's eyes, and moves on in search of someone who might actually contribute as an equal instead of preaching from the top of Mount Sinai. Jon, come back, we love you. Ezrael, go away.
posted by rodii at 6:27 AM on February 1, 2002
"Someone like that." What are you, his boyfriend? Jon can speak for himself, and often has, without a PR person to blow his horn. I like him, he pisses me off sometimes, he's leaving, I'll miss him, too bad.What else is there to say? Life goes on.
and the first post after he says so, someone's reaction is can I have your user number?
That was the funniest, and the healthiest, thing anyone has said in this thread. It's exactly the same sort of irreverent tweak Jon would have delivered on one of his better days. Your rage, on the other hand, is simply more of the same scolding attempts to dictate what people should be feeling that Jon has decried above. It is boring, like you, like every one of your rambling, enraged Metafilter screeds in my memory. One reads (skims), rolls one's eyes, and moves on in search of someone who might actually contribute as an equal instead of preaching from the top of Mount Sinai. Jon, come back, we love you. Ezrael, go away.
posted by rodii at 6:27 AM on February 1, 2002
Here as with SNL , the so called "new crowd" is as entertaining, if not more IMHO.
And do consider how awful SNL would be if Ackroyd, say, was still on...
posted by y2karl at 6:31 AM on February 1, 2002
And do consider how awful SNL would be if Ackroyd, say, was still on...
posted by y2karl at 6:31 AM on February 1, 2002
When someone like that decides he's had enough, and the first post after he says so, someone's reaction is can I have your user number? then I'll damn well call that situation one that calls for some harsh language.
I'm still waiting for an answer to that one, btw.
And rodii, how dare you suggest that I was anything less than 100% serious? I'm hurt.
posted by anapestic at 6:58 AM on February 1, 2002
I'm still waiting for an answer to that one, btw.
And rodii, how dare you suggest that I was anything less than 100% serious? I'm hurt.
posted by anapestic at 6:58 AM on February 1, 2002
Oh, the irony. It was not long ago that Steven Den Beste--whose leaving ires so many--was a nuisance for some Metafilter readers, some of whom even encouraged him to take his links elsewhere. Yet now, because he chastized Metafilter on his way out, people are offended.
The real issue here is that Metafilter members get offended when someone suggests the site, crafted by their own hands, is sub-par. Feelings get hurt. But when someone leaving a party says the party stunk, the party can still be a good time for those who remain.
So, like we were taught in elementary school, be true to yourself and don't worry about the negative opinions of your peers. I know I'll be back Monday to see what got posted over the weekend.
posted by werty at 7:26 AM on February 1, 2002
The real issue here is that Metafilter members get offended when someone suggests the site, crafted by their own hands, is sub-par. Feelings get hurt. But when someone leaving a party says the party stunk, the party can still be a good time for those who remain.
So, like we were taught in elementary school, be true to yourself and don't worry about the negative opinions of your peers. I know I'll be back Monday to see what got posted over the weekend.
posted by werty at 7:26 AM on February 1, 2002
try reading this thread to "I Am A Man of Constant Sorrow"...(from the soundtrack of O Brother Where Art Thou)......
it's almost a religious experience.
posted by bunnyfire at 7:32 AM on February 1, 2002
it's almost a religious experience.
posted by bunnyfire at 7:32 AM on February 1, 2002
I'm not sure what everyone is so wound up about...
I think everyone is just freakin' insane, personally. What the hell, Ezrael? If you really got that worked up over y6y6y6 not visiting here anymore, I suggest you do get some help. If I ever react as dramatically to someone not coming to metafilter, I'm going to throw my computer out my window, move to Tibet and grow sprouts and celery.
posted by Doug at 7:37 AM on February 1, 2002
I think everyone is just freakin' insane, personally. What the hell, Ezrael? If you really got that worked up over y6y6y6 not visiting here anymore, I suggest you do get some help. If I ever react as dramatically to someone not coming to metafilter, I'm going to throw my computer out my window, move to Tibet and grow sprouts and celery.
posted by Doug at 7:37 AM on February 1, 2002
I've been reading it with "Devil's Child" (from Judas Priest's Screaming For Vengeance) playing, and you know, it does add a little sumpfin' :)
posted by UncleFes at 7:40 AM on February 1, 2002
posted by UncleFes at 7:40 AM on February 1, 2002
Hmm, soundtracks....
or, maybe,
What Former SNL Star Is SDB?
posted by y2karl at 7:57 AM on February 1, 2002
or, maybe,
What Former SNL Star Is SDB?
posted by y2karl at 7:57 AM on February 1, 2002
Perhaps there will be more spinoff shows for the old guard.
omg! omg! sportsfilter has really happened? how did i miss some garnd announcement about this. talk about phoenix rising from the ashes. woo hoo.
posted by danOstuporStar at 8:13 AM on February 1, 2002
omg! omg! sportsfilter has really happened? how did i miss some garnd announcement about this. talk about phoenix rising from the ashes. woo hoo.
posted by danOstuporStar at 8:13 AM on February 1, 2002
As MetaFilter's newest member (! -- true -- !), I might as well chime in. I've been using Metafilter on a completely different level. Basically, I come here for the good links, and I haven't participated (or even viewed) any of the discussion. There was a rare time or two when I wanted to respond to a story, but couldn't because they didn't allow new users. (Thank you, MeFi network sites!)
I kind of see some truth in his claims now that I've been poking around. However, it really hasn't retracted like a 6A type newsgroup would suggest. Reminds me of my other favorite site, FilePile.
posted by jmccorm at 8:25 AM on February 1, 2002
I kind of see some truth in his claims now that I've been poking around. However, it really hasn't retracted like a 6A type newsgroup would suggest. Reminds me of my other favorite site, FilePile.
posted by jmccorm at 8:25 AM on February 1, 2002
overwhelming feelings that must be written, even though totally late to this discussion:
i count Steven a friend. but i don't agree with his diagnosis. i don't think the situation is that serious.
y6y6y6: good riddance. you can call people names for fun on MeFi if you want to. you're allowed. but it still sucks. (of course, we've had this conversation before.)
posted by Sean Meade at 8:33 AM on February 1, 2002
i count Steven a friend. but i don't agree with his diagnosis. i don't think the situation is that serious.
y6y6y6: good riddance. you can call people names for fun on MeFi if you want to. you're allowed. but it still sucks. (of course, we've had this conversation before.)
posted by Sean Meade at 8:33 AM on February 1, 2002
What Former SNL Star Is SDB?
Colin Quinn. Without. A. Doubt.
posted by UncleFes at 8:50 AM on February 1, 2002
Colin Quinn. Without. A. Doubt.
posted by UncleFes at 8:50 AM on February 1, 2002
You know, I was thinking the same thing but I couldn't remember his name. Dang if I was going to say that Mi--Irish guy on Weekend Update, either.
posted by y2karl at 9:03 AM on February 1, 2002
posted by y2karl at 9:03 AM on February 1, 2002
Two cents from me:
The criticisms that MeFi is suffering from uncivility and stupid posts have some value. The criticisms that MeFi needs more insults and undeserved antagonism are worthless. SDB was (usually) a great contributor to this forum; I'm sad that he no longer feels comfortable. As for Ezrael and y6y6y6, regardless of how I feel (personally) about their posting style, their 'goodbyes' here cement, for me, a 'seeya!' sensation. You're leaving because you feel you can't be jerks on MeFi any more? Good. And good riddance.
posted by Marquis at 9:08 AM on February 1, 2002
The criticisms that MeFi is suffering from uncivility and stupid posts have some value. The criticisms that MeFi needs more insults and undeserved antagonism are worthless. SDB was (usually) a great contributor to this forum; I'm sad that he no longer feels comfortable. As for Ezrael and y6y6y6, regardless of how I feel (personally) about their posting style, their 'goodbyes' here cement, for me, a 'seeya!' sensation. You're leaving because you feel you can't be jerks on MeFi any more? Good. And good riddance.
posted by Marquis at 9:08 AM on February 1, 2002
I just wanna know, can I kiss y6y6y6's ring?
No matter how desperately one wishes to convince the masses of some great truth, going all drama-queen & hysterical is just not the way to do it. No matter how frustrated or angry or even right you may be. It invites, nay begs, your dismissal as a crank.
If you want people to truly listen to you, you'll construct a rational argument. Past a certain point, anything else is attention-seeking, drama for the sake of drama. There's making a point, then there's personal catharsis, and never the twain shall meet.
posted by Sapphireblue at 9:08 AM on February 1, 2002
No matter how desperately one wishes to convince the masses of some great truth, going all drama-queen & hysterical is just not the way to do it. No matter how frustrated or angry or even right you may be. It invites, nay begs, your dismissal as a crank.
If you want people to truly listen to you, you'll construct a rational argument. Past a certain point, anything else is attention-seeking, drama for the sake of drama. There's making a point, then there's personal catharsis, and never the twain shall meet.
posted by Sapphireblue at 9:08 AM on February 1, 2002
I ain't had this much fun since the pigs ate cousin Willy.
Soapbox posturing and speeches even William Shatner would be embarrassed to ham - "...your most beloved sons, who sweated blood on your behalf, who stood in the ford of the river and defended you against all..." Wooooo.
Did you guys at least wear rubber waders, standing out there getting all wet and stuff? Did you carry big swords and shields, and recite Richard the Third?
Criminy. It's a flipping website. A diversion. "Beloved sons" my hindquarters - I don't remember passing any statues of the water-winged freedom fighters on my way in. I know I didn't vote for them.
People come - people go; and if they have to play their own little version of the final act of 'La Boheme' before they walk out the door, whatever...
...Just please now, don't come back after you leave the stage. You spent your credibilty when you brought the curtain down on yourself.
posted by Perigee at 9:26 AM on February 1, 2002
Soapbox posturing and speeches even William Shatner would be embarrassed to ham - "...your most beloved sons, who sweated blood on your behalf, who stood in the ford of the river and defended you against all..." Wooooo.
Did you guys at least wear rubber waders, standing out there getting all wet and stuff? Did you carry big swords and shields, and recite Richard the Third?
Criminy. It's a flipping website. A diversion. "Beloved sons" my hindquarters - I don't remember passing any statues of the water-winged freedom fighters on my way in. I know I didn't vote for them.
People come - people go; and if they have to play their own little version of the final act of 'La Boheme' before they walk out the door, whatever...
...Just please now, don't come back after you leave the stage. You spent your credibilty when you brought the curtain down on yourself.
posted by Perigee at 9:26 AM on February 1, 2002
...Just please now, don't come back after you leave the stage. You spent your credibilty when you brought the curtain down on yourself.
Perigee, your ignorance of American popular culture is showing. Just repeat after me: "It was all a dream." Alternatively, "It was the booze!"
posted by anapestic at 9:57 AM on February 1, 2002
Perigee, your ignorance of American popular culture is showing. Just repeat after me: "It was all a dream." Alternatively, "It was the booze!"
posted by anapestic at 9:57 AM on February 1, 2002
(My first post ever)
I have been lurking MeFi for months, and have enjoyed the site immensely. What is happening on MeFi seems to mirror what is happening in the world at large, more interest in current events, more political discussions. MeFi is an organic community, and its growth and change are indicative of life and vigor. Mr. DenBeste seems to want a community which operates like the old Soviet system, i.e. you can vote but there is only one candidate. If this is the kind of community he wants to participate in, he has done what he should by setting up his own. But imposing such a dogma on MeFi is not the answer.
I have seen lots more civil and informative exchanges on MeFi during my long gestation period than I have nasty, trolly ones. As a result, I am still as interested in MeFi as I was when I first heard of it almost two years ago (via Lileks, strangely enough).
If we all operate with the highest of our personal standards and with common civility, and all try to ferret out and post interesting links, then MeFi will continue to be way cool.
Sorry for the longish ramblings of a newbie, but I already feel like one of the family, and I'm happy to be here! Hopefully my contributions to MeFi will be of interest to the community and we will all continue in a spirit of wonderful concordance and respectful, lively dissonance
posted by evanizer at 11:47 AM on February 1, 2002
I have been lurking MeFi for months, and have enjoyed the site immensely. What is happening on MeFi seems to mirror what is happening in the world at large, more interest in current events, more political discussions. MeFi is an organic community, and its growth and change are indicative of life and vigor. Mr. DenBeste seems to want a community which operates like the old Soviet system, i.e. you can vote but there is only one candidate. If this is the kind of community he wants to participate in, he has done what he should by setting up his own. But imposing such a dogma on MeFi is not the answer.
I have seen lots more civil and informative exchanges on MeFi during my long gestation period than I have nasty, trolly ones. As a result, I am still as interested in MeFi as I was when I first heard of it almost two years ago (via Lileks, strangely enough).
If we all operate with the highest of our personal standards and with common civility, and all try to ferret out and post interesting links, then MeFi will continue to be way cool.
Sorry for the longish ramblings of a newbie, but I already feel like one of the family, and I'm happy to be here! Hopefully my contributions to MeFi will be of interest to the community and we will all continue in a spirit of wonderful concordance and respectful, lively dissonance
posted by evanizer at 11:47 AM on February 1, 2002
Erm...has anyone else noticed Steve hasn't posted in this thread. He's just such a regular visitor and poster it struck me as a tad odd...
posted by feelinglistless at 11:49 AM on February 1, 2002
posted by feelinglistless at 11:49 AM on February 1, 2002
::Homage to Carol Anne Linkeriffic Comment::
Were that it were so sweet: Swan Song.
posted by y2karl at 12:20 PM on February 1, 2002
Were that it were so sweet: Swan Song.
posted by y2karl at 12:20 PM on February 1, 2002
If we all operate with the highest of our personal standards and with common civility, and all try to ferret out and post interesting links, then MeFi will continue to be way cool.
Now yer talkin'. Give me starry-eyed newbie idealism over crabby "things ain't the way they used to be" griping any day. MetaFilter: There's Still Some Of Us Who Love It Just The Way It Is.
Welcome, evanizer.
posted by Sapphireblue at 12:34 PM on February 1, 2002
Now yer talkin'. Give me starry-eyed newbie idealism over crabby "things ain't the way they used to be" griping any day. MetaFilter: There's Still Some Of Us Who Love It Just The Way It Is.
Welcome, evanizer.
posted by Sapphireblue at 12:34 PM on February 1, 2002
Metafilter [occasionally] is like a bad fuck you run from screaming and scratching your crotch, saying to yourself "why? why? why?"...
...but wanking off gets old.
posted by blackholebrain at 12:47 PM on February 1, 2002
...but wanking off gets old.
posted by blackholebrain at 12:47 PM on February 1, 2002
MeFi will continue to be way cool.
The evanizer knows.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 1:38 PM on February 1, 2002
The evanizer knows.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 1:38 PM on February 1, 2002
I love MetaFilter. MetaFilter pisses me off. MetaFilter is a big fricking chaotic mess, kind of like the world itself, and that's what's so great about it.
I'll visit MetaFilter and hang around for a week or two or three, and then I'll disappear for a month or so. And then I'll come back, intending to stick around for maybe five minutes, and WHOOSH, half an hour has gone by, and I keep visiting over the next few days.
MetaFilter is my anti-drug. MetaFilter is my drug. MetaFilter is my Alpha and my Omega and my Nissan Maxima.
Half of me gets really pissed off at some posters, half of me is glad that a place exists where people can piss me off that way, and half of me is really bad at math.
Hooray for MetaFilter!
posted by Tin Man at 2:16 PM on February 1, 2002
I'll visit MetaFilter and hang around for a week or two or three, and then I'll disappear for a month or so. And then I'll come back, intending to stick around for maybe five minutes, and WHOOSH, half an hour has gone by, and I keep visiting over the next few days.
MetaFilter is my anti-drug. MetaFilter is my drug. MetaFilter is my Alpha and my Omega and my Nissan Maxima.
Half of me gets really pissed off at some posters, half of me is glad that a place exists where people can piss me off that way, and half of me is really bad at math.
Hooray for MetaFilter!
posted by Tin Man at 2:16 PM on February 1, 2002
MetaFilter is my anti-drug. MetaFilter is my drug. MetaFilter is my Alpha and my Omega and my Nissan Maxima.
Zod, you must kneel before Metafilter.
(You can wake up know, folks. The dream is over.)
posted by Wulfgar! at 2:48 PM on February 1, 2002
Zod, you must kneel before Metafilter.
(You can wake up know, folks. The dream is over.)
posted by Wulfgar! at 2:48 PM on February 1, 2002
If you want people to truly listen to you, you'll construct a rational argument.
SapphireBlue:How well did that work here, for SDB? I agree with the sentiment, but reading through this thread has largely destroyed my faith in MetaFilter (with notable exceptions, ie Miguel, rodii, a few others). The extreme vitroil over SDB's comments (made on his own site) seem to me to be the product of emotional immaturity, nothing more. But then, as Alexander Hamilton once said,
"Nothing is more fallacious than to expect to produce any valuable or permanent results... by relying merely on the reason of men. Men are rather reasoning than reasonable animals, for the most part governed by the impulse of passion.
*sign*. I hate it, but it's true.
posted by gd779 at 2:55 PM on February 1, 2002
SapphireBlue:How well did that work here, for SDB? I agree with the sentiment, but reading through this thread has largely destroyed my faith in MetaFilter (with notable exceptions, ie Miguel, rodii, a few others). The extreme vitroil over SDB's comments (made on his own site) seem to me to be the product of emotional immaturity, nothing more. But then, as Alexander Hamilton once said,
"Nothing is more fallacious than to expect to produce any valuable or permanent results... by relying merely on the reason of men. Men are rather reasoning than reasonable animals, for the most part governed by the impulse of passion.
*sign*. I hate it, but it's true.
posted by gd779 at 2:55 PM on February 1, 2002
destroyed my faith in MetaFilter
rephrase: lowered my opinion of my fellow MeFites. MetaFilter is still very, very, very cool, but lately I have increasingly found myself valuing the links over the discussion. This thread cemented that impression for me.
posted by gd779 at 2:58 PM on February 1, 2002
rephrase: lowered my opinion of my fellow MeFites. MetaFilter is still very, very, very cool, but lately I have increasingly found myself valuing the links over the discussion. This thread cemented that impression for me.
posted by gd779 at 2:58 PM on February 1, 2002
There's reason and there's reasonable sounding, gd779, but I agree, comments like some of us left because we could tell that the majority here didn't take the time to consider someone else's opinions in the rush to sample the world from the safety of their own anal canals or Metafilter used to be fun. It used to be a place where I could call someone names without being shouted down, or It really started getting to me after Miguel Cardoso showed up and started shaping it in exactly the wrong direction. I'm completely mystified as to why people let him get away with it, but he's managed to turn Metafilter into my personal version of Hell or People can't state their frank opinion, because if it's not a carefully constructed argument it's worthless probably would be enough to drive anyone away. Considering the extreme vitriol of those remarks and the emotional immaturity revealed therein, oh my, I am in total agreement with you.
posted by y2karl at 3:29 PM on February 1, 2002
posted by y2karl at 3:29 PM on February 1, 2002
That said, let me offer the opinion that Matt as a laissez faire King Log is far far preferable to a King Stork with enormous control over the subject matter and a distinctive way of writing. That would be so predictable and boring.
posted by y2karl at 3:45 PM on February 1, 2002
posted by y2karl at 3:45 PM on February 1, 2002
gd:
if it stands for anything, i can remember a time when i was a bit frustrated with sdb for some things. there have been times when sdb has constructed rational argument, but there have been times when he has not and i understand when others say they have legitimate gripes with him.
this thread has neither restored nor diminished my faith in metafilter. it seems pretty normal to me. like a depressed teenager, metafilter occasionally slumps into a corner and sobs over its many failings and shortcomings. after some tissue-blowing, it gets up to lie on its bed and sleeps on the whole deal. some things change, though not many, and life continues as it had. a little introspection is good.
posted by moz at 3:47 PM on February 1, 2002
if it stands for anything, i can remember a time when i was a bit frustrated with sdb for some things. there have been times when sdb has constructed rational argument, but there have been times when he has not and i understand when others say they have legitimate gripes with him.
this thread has neither restored nor diminished my faith in metafilter. it seems pretty normal to me. like a depressed teenager, metafilter occasionally slumps into a corner and sobs over its many failings and shortcomings. after some tissue-blowing, it gets up to lie on its bed and sleeps on the whole deal. some things change, though not many, and life continues as it had. a little introspection is good.
posted by moz at 3:47 PM on February 1, 2002
So MetaFilter is just going through puberty.
posted by Kafkaesque at 3:50 PM on February 1, 2002
posted by Kafkaesque at 3:50 PM on February 1, 2002
Considering the extreme vitriol of those remarks and the emotional immaturity revealed therein, oh my, I am in total agreement with you.
My, how very reasonable sounding. However, I would like to point out that you (y2karl) haven't shown any of the emotional immaturity you claim exists. Are you simply relying on the Mefi cult of common wisdom to show your point as adequate? I think so.
If you want to argue, then argue. Don't let allusion be your shield, because there's always some asshole to call your bluff. In this case, that would be me. (Oh no, I called someone a name. Maybe I should be banned ...)
posted by Wulfgar! at 3:54 PM on February 1, 2002
My, how very reasonable sounding. However, I would like to point out that you (y2karl) haven't shown any of the emotional immaturity you claim exists. Are you simply relying on the Mefi cult of common wisdom to show your point as adequate? I think so.
If you want to argue, then argue. Don't let allusion be your shield, because there's always some asshole to call your bluff. In this case, that would be me. (Oh no, I called someone a name. Maybe I should be banned ...)
posted by Wulfgar! at 3:54 PM on February 1, 2002
That said, let me offer the opinion that Matt as a laissez faire King Log is far far preferable to a King Stork with enormous control over the subject matter and a distinctive way of writing. That would be so predictable and boring.
If you take a look at what's been said, its not Matt as King (of any type) that's the problem here. It's all the little "blog nicely" and "never miss a chance for a clever quip" princelings that have changed the site so onerously for the persons leaving.
posted by Wulfgar! at 3:58 PM on February 1, 2002
If you take a look at what's been said, its not Matt as King (of any type) that's the problem here. It's all the little "blog nicely" and "never miss a chance for a clever quip" princelings that have changed the site so onerously for the persons leaving.
posted by Wulfgar! at 3:58 PM on February 1, 2002
Extremism in the defense of tilting at straw men or windmills of your own device is no vice? Then it would appear to be a case of whose ox is being gored, would it not?
posted by y2karl at 4:01 PM on February 1, 2002
posted by y2karl at 4:01 PM on February 1, 2002
and we will all continue in a spirit of wonderful concordance and respectful, lively dissonance
I agree with your assessment. Welcome aboard!
posted by rushmc at 4:06 PM on February 1, 2002
I agree with your assessment. Welcome aboard!
posted by rushmc at 4:06 PM on February 1, 2002
Extremism in the defense of tilting at straw men or windmills of your own device is no vice?
Anyone can claim "Strawman". The question is, can you actually argue the point.
posted by Wulfgar! at 4:12 PM on February 1, 2002
Anyone can claim "Strawman". The question is, can you actually argue the point.
posted by Wulfgar! at 4:12 PM on February 1, 2002
Oh, please, For a fact I don't want to argue, especially with someone who has a telepathic certainty of what I'm saying. gd779 complained of the vitriol shown SDB. I quoted some of the vitriol, which was far more vitiolic than anything said against SDB, expressed by Ezrael and y6y6y6. It was an ironic observation.
This 'pollyanna' and 'clever quipping' stuff is your construction, I don't share this viewpoint and I'm not interested in debate. I'm interested in conversing with real human beings on topics of mutual interest. I have many many interests but debating superhuman beings who deal from a stacked rhetorical deck, which was what I saw all too often in Mr. Dan Beste's posts, is not one of them. If you saw different, that's fine.
I'm a newcomer and have no history here and hence no reverent affection for the old days. All I saw was someone with an extremely elevated level of self-esteem who felt he had something important to say to us all. I didn't share his grandiloquent sense of himself and have no desire to review his pearls of wisdom right now. Other things are important to me.
This place is changing but I see no decay. As for the politics, I'm not interested in long winded exchanges. I have my opinions about the situation in the MidEast, say, but I'm not going to get into the threads where that comes up because the pitch is so extreme and the positions so fixed. Like I said before, it's like arguing politics with your dad, there's no winners, no one changes their minds here on things in which they have any emotional investment, and it's a waste of time and emotion.
It's very easy to see the presuppositions embedded in the arguments of someone whose worldview is radically different but frankly, life is too short. People believe what they want to believe, debate on their own predefined terms and are as blind to the incongruities in their own arguments as they are clairovoyant in reading the flaws in those they perceive to be in opposition.
As for clever quips, I prefer brevity in general, when reading or writing, to windbaggery. Can I argue the point? Like in debate class in high school? Sorry, I'm just not interested. I'm moving this weekend, I've wasted too much time here already today. You'll have to refute me in my absence.
posted by y2karl at 6:07 PM on February 1, 2002
This 'pollyanna' and 'clever quipping' stuff is your construction, I don't share this viewpoint and I'm not interested in debate. I'm interested in conversing with real human beings on topics of mutual interest. I have many many interests but debating superhuman beings who deal from a stacked rhetorical deck, which was what I saw all too often in Mr. Dan Beste's posts, is not one of them. If you saw different, that's fine.
I'm a newcomer and have no history here and hence no reverent affection for the old days. All I saw was someone with an extremely elevated level of self-esteem who felt he had something important to say to us all. I didn't share his grandiloquent sense of himself and have no desire to review his pearls of wisdom right now. Other things are important to me.
This place is changing but I see no decay. As for the politics, I'm not interested in long winded exchanges. I have my opinions about the situation in the MidEast, say, but I'm not going to get into the threads where that comes up because the pitch is so extreme and the positions so fixed. Like I said before, it's like arguing politics with your dad, there's no winners, no one changes their minds here on things in which they have any emotional investment, and it's a waste of time and emotion.
It's very easy to see the presuppositions embedded in the arguments of someone whose worldview is radically different but frankly, life is too short. People believe what they want to believe, debate on their own predefined terms and are as blind to the incongruities in their own arguments as they are clairovoyant in reading the flaws in those they perceive to be in opposition.
As for clever quips, I prefer brevity in general, when reading or writing, to windbaggery. Can I argue the point? Like in debate class in high school? Sorry, I'm just not interested. I'm moving this weekend, I've wasted too much time here already today. You'll have to refute me in my absence.
posted by y2karl at 6:07 PM on February 1, 2002
Everybody Sing:
In a dank stinky hallway
Stale beer in my lair
Warm smell of fajitas
Rising up through the air
Then I looked at my 'puter
There was a shimmering light
My head grew heavy, and my hands they shook but
just one last post for the night!
I kept posting on MeFi
I heard the IM bell
And I was thinking to myself
This could be Heaven or this could be Hell
There was a post from Mathowie
And he showed me the way
There were voices down the corridor
I thought I heard them say
Welcome to the Hotel MetaFilter
Such a lovely place
Such a lovely place (background)
Such a lovely pace
Plenty of room at the Hotel MetaFilter
Any time of year
Any time of year (background)
You can find it here
You can find it here
Her mind is all sorts of twisted
She's got the DSL bends
She's got a lot of links and things to say
Her posts never end
MetaTalk in the backroom
All nice and grey
But just you remember
One front post per day!
So I called up Mathowie
Pllleeeeease put in more time
And he said
We haven't had that pony here since 1999
And still those voices are calling from far away
Wake you up in the middle of the night
Just to see them say
Welcome to the Hotel MetaFilter
Such a lovely Place
Such a lovely Place (background)
Such a lovely space
They're livin' it up at the Hotel MetaFilter
What a nice surprise
What a nice surprise (background)
Post and eat your fries
Ten hours leaves him reeling
Eyes feel like they're sliced
And she said
We are all just prisoners here
Of our own device
And in Sir Queso's chambers
A bandwidth-laden feast
They say "MeFi's dying" every week
But they just can't kill the beast!
Last thing I remember
I was running for the door
I had to find the passage back to my bed so I could snore
Relax said Mathowie
We are programed to recieve
You can quit this all the times you like
BUT YOU CAN NEVER LEAVE!!!
posted by metrocake at 8:11 PM on February 1, 2002 [3 favorites]
In a dank stinky hallway
Stale beer in my lair
Warm smell of fajitas
Rising up through the air
Then I looked at my 'puter
There was a shimmering light
My head grew heavy, and my hands they shook but
just one last post for the night!
I kept posting on MeFi
I heard the IM bell
And I was thinking to myself
This could be Heaven or this could be Hell
There was a post from Mathowie
And he showed me the way
There were voices down the corridor
I thought I heard them say
Welcome to the Hotel MetaFilter
Such a lovely place
Such a lovely place (background)
Such a lovely pace
Plenty of room at the Hotel MetaFilter
Any time of year
Any time of year (background)
You can find it here
You can find it here
Her mind is all sorts of twisted
She's got the DSL bends
She's got a lot of links and things to say
Her posts never end
MetaTalk in the backroom
All nice and grey
But just you remember
One front post per day!
So I called up Mathowie
Pllleeeeease put in more time
And he said
We haven't had that pony here since 1999
And still those voices are calling from far away
Wake you up in the middle of the night
Just to see them say
Welcome to the Hotel MetaFilter
Such a lovely Place
Such a lovely Place (background)
Such a lovely space
They're livin' it up at the Hotel MetaFilter
What a nice surprise
What a nice surprise (background)
Post and eat your fries
Ten hours leaves him reeling
Eyes feel like they're sliced
And she said
We are all just prisoners here
Of our own device
And in Sir Queso's chambers
A bandwidth-laden feast
They say "MeFi's dying" every week
But they just can't kill the beast!
Last thing I remember
I was running for the door
I had to find the passage back to my bed so I could snore
Relax said Mathowie
We are programed to recieve
You can quit this all the times you like
BUT YOU CAN NEVER LEAVE!!!
posted by metrocake at 8:11 PM on February 1, 2002 [3 favorites]
So MetaFilter is just going through puberty.
"UncleFes, can you come up to the front of the class and write your post on the board?"
"Um, I'm afraid not."
posted by UncleFes at 8:46 PM on February 1, 2002
"UncleFes, can you come up to the front of the class and write your post on the board?"
"Um, I'm afraid not."
posted by UncleFes at 8:46 PM on February 1, 2002
Definition of IRONY : if you happen to check out SDB's website, and wander over to his discussion forums -- the ones he says he moderates with a heavier hand than Matt does here... each forum says "moderated by: no one."
posted by crunchland at 8:52 PM on February 1, 2002
posted by crunchland at 8:52 PM on February 1, 2002
People believe what they want to believe, debate on their own predefined terms and are as blind to the incongruities in their own arguments as they are clairovoyant in reading the flaws in those they perceive to be in opposition.
Surely you mean "People sometimes believe what they want..." yadda yadda yadda? If not, that is an astoundingly cynical position!
posted by rushmc at 9:09 PM on February 1, 2002
Surely you mean "People sometimes believe what they want..." yadda yadda yadda? If not, that is an astoundingly cynical position!
posted by rushmc at 9:09 PM on February 1, 2002
As for clever quips, I prefer brevity in general, when reading or writing, to windbaggery.
Good!
Can I argue the point? Like in debate class in high school?
Funny, you just posted a whole lotta words to say that you can't defend your position, and aren't willing to do so.
posted by Wulfgar! at 11:22 PM on February 1, 2002
Good!
Can I argue the point? Like in debate class in high school?
Funny, you just posted a whole lotta words to say that you can't defend your position, and aren't willing to do so.
posted by Wulfgar! at 11:22 PM on February 1, 2002
If not, that is an astoundingly cynical position!
Au contraire
posted by y2karl at 11:55 PM on February 1, 2002
Au contraire
posted by y2karl at 11:55 PM on February 1, 2002
I'm just not interested. I'm moving this weekend, I've wasted too much time here already today. You'll have to refute me in my absence.
And so you did.
posted by y2karl at 12:01 AM on February 2, 2002
And so you did.
posted by y2karl at 12:01 AM on February 2, 2002
Are we dead yet, or not? I seem to have lost my schedule.
Ed
confused but soldiering on bravely.
posted by ebarker at 12:51 AM on February 2, 2002
Ed
confused but soldiering on bravely.
posted by ebarker at 12:51 AM on February 2, 2002
Adieu, SDB. Thanks for astounding me by not sailing through MetaTalk with a "kick me" sign bolted to your stern and a hit counter lashed to your bowsprit.
posted by Opus Dark at 4:08 AM on February 2, 2002
posted by Opus Dark at 4:08 AM on February 2, 2002
I am a man of constant sorrow
I am a man of constant sorrow
I've seen trouble all my days
I bid farewell to metafilter
The place where I was flamed and hazed.
For six long years I've been in trouble
No pleasure here here on earth I find
For on the web I'm bound to ramble
I have no friends to help me now
It's fare thee well my own true weblog
I never expect to see you again
For I'm bound to log onto Kottke
perhaps i'll die of all the shame
Maybe your friends think I'm a stranger
My screenname you'll never see no more
But there is one promise that is given
I'll meet you on God's golden shore
....oh-you didn't think I was going anywhere did you? perish the thought!
posted by bunnyfire at 8:08 AM on February 2, 2002
If not, that is an astoundingly cynical position!
Au contraire
Umm...your point being?
posted by rushmc at 10:07 AM on February 2, 2002
Au contraire
Umm...your point being?
posted by rushmc at 10:07 AM on February 2, 2002
rushmc, um, at this point I'm not sure..
Anyway, I'm moving, behind in moving
and not getting enough sleep,
So, anyway, another time.
posted by y2karl at 12:19 PM on February 2, 2002
Anyway, I'm moving, behind in moving
and not getting enough sleep,
So, anyway, another time.
posted by y2karl at 12:19 PM on February 2, 2002
One Day Later. From observing my own participation in discussion boards and email lists... when I start seeing something "wrong" with the board or list in general it just means that a part of me has shifted to a new focus. I've started my own lists because of dissatisfaction with other lists, but in the end it was really just the urge towards personal growth beyond what the current frameworks (lists/boards) could provide for me. The lists I left lived on and thrived, and I entered a new framework where I set a NEW tone for the lists I wanted.
So, if SDB has grown beyond MeFi, I hope his wings unfurl successfully, but I don't see it as having much to do with MeFi itself. Subjectivity and all that. Or maybe it's the same reason teenagers supposedly rebel from their parents when they are getting ready to grow into their own - something to push against. Perhaps matthowie can consider himself a parent of sorts! *grin* As many have pointed out - having a vision for something is often harder than attacking, but sometimes it's just the other side of the coin, in a way.
Personally, I'm getting good (not excellent - heh) at recognizing my own feelings of frustration when I grow beyond something and instead of attacking the box, I just step out of it. Mostly. LOL.
posted by thunder at 1:01 PM on February 3, 2002
So, if SDB has grown beyond MeFi, I hope his wings unfurl successfully, but I don't see it as having much to do with MeFi itself. Subjectivity and all that. Or maybe it's the same reason teenagers supposedly rebel from their parents when they are getting ready to grow into their own - something to push against. Perhaps matthowie can consider himself a parent of sorts! *grin* As many have pointed out - having a vision for something is often harder than attacking, but sometimes it's just the other side of the coin, in a way.
Personally, I'm getting good (not excellent - heh) at recognizing my own feelings of frustration when I grow beyond something and instead of attacking the box, I just step out of it. Mostly. LOL.
posted by thunder at 1:01 PM on February 3, 2002
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Rather than rehash the whole Liliks thread (where this is mentioned too), let's just discuss this as a work of rhetoric.
posted by mattpfeff at 12:04 PM on January 31, 2002