What goes in MetaTalk? What goes in MetaFilter?

February 28, 2002 2:22 PM

">More and more, I'm seeing posts here in MetaTalk that really should be in MetaFilter proper. I thought MetaTalk was supposed to be for meta-discussions about MetaFilter that would be distracting from the main site. Was I wrong? [ more inside ]
posted by fraying to etiquette/policy at 2:22 PM (33 comments total)

Most of the posts that trigger this have been posted to the general weblog-related category. In my view, I thought the point of that category was to have discussions about weblogs that aren't tied to a particular link. But many of the posts there link to things, so why not make them a proper front page post? Perhaps some words from our fearless leader on what belongs there would help. I'd hate to see that category just become a mini-community of second-string front page posts, or a sideline for those too shy (or intimidated) to post to the front page.
posted by fraying at 2:22 PM on February 28, 2002

(Also, that odd quote and carrot didn't show up when I previewed the thread. Strange.)
posted by fraying at 2:23 PM on February 28, 2002

I suspect the idea is that it's better to post it to meta than post it to mefi and get metad. Just your average crisis of confidence.

Side note in hopes of preventing thread derailment: If I say: "please no snarking about the mefi police", will it work?
posted by frykitty at 2:31 PM on February 28, 2002

I think the interesting thing is that Metatalk discussion about Heather Hamilton's recent problems was slightly better than the MetaFilter one. Of course it didn't help the MeFi thread that the first comment in the thread pointed to the MetaTalk discussion.
posted by riffola at 2:44 PM on February 28, 2002

I read the comment yesterday that Meta is Mefi these days, and I think its true. Meta doesn't feel like a sidebar discussion about Metafilter related issues (if that is what its suppossed to be). It's come to feel like its own site, with posters saying that they only post to Meta and vice-versa. Anyone else feel like Meta has morphed into its own thing, with its own group of members that can't be reached other than posting here? Is this where the cool kids hang out?

Conversely, I think there are a lot of MeFiers that never come to Meta, because they assume there are only posts about bugs or support problems.


posted by xammerboy at 2:51 PM on February 28, 2002

I don't think that space appeared when I previewed either (could be wrong though - oops.)
posted by xammerboy at 2:53 PM on February 28, 2002

I don't think that space appeared above my name when I previewed either (could be wrong though - oops.)
posted by xammerboy at 2:53 PM on February 28, 2002

Someone shoot me.
posted by xammerboy at 2:55 PM on February 28, 2002

After having been taken to task for posting a link to MetaFilter which seemingly inspired no discussion, I debated the merits of a straightforward follow-up post to a previous discussion. Still, the article seemed to answer the question of the viability of such a case, and I thought it may have proven useful to the original participants (and as a legal precedent for future cases.)

In short, if my post were to inspire any discussion, it would be about a previous MeFi discussion. Hence, MeTa.
posted by Danelope at 2:55 PM on February 28, 2002

This would never happen on MeFi. ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 2:56 PM on February 28, 2002

frykitty: if only!

I agree with fraying... what's up with MetaTalk being used for not-ready-for-prime-time MeFi posts? I think it's really useful and important to have an area reserved for MeFi navel-gazing, and that its value is diluted as people mis-use it.

If you post your fun links here because there's too much noise in the "main site" or whatever, you're not helping anything, just dodging one problem and causing another. IMHO.
posted by Sapphireblue at 3:01 PM on February 28, 2002

Is this where the cool kids hang out?


No, because I feel somewhat more comfortable here, and I'm DEFINATELY not one of the cool kids. It does feel like it has an honesty that Fark Metafilter doesn't anymore. A communal spirit, if you will. And the Great Manitou (mathowie) seems more open and compassionate here as well. I don't think he really wanted it that way, but evolution happens ...


(Sorry to any I offended by the Fark thing. I really don't think that MeFi is anything like Fark. Unfortunately, many people do seem to think so, and behave accordingly.)

posted by Wulfgar! at 3:02 PM on February 28, 2002

Since I've been roasted in MeFi more than most (not more than all but more than many) I do think I speak from some experience here. But then I often think that, so I'm probably wrong.

In my experience, if while composing a FPP to MeFi, one gets this slight twinge of thought that there might be something in the thread which will cause some people to roast you and stick an apple in your mouth, the alternatives are either to not post at all or copypaste what you've done so far into a MeTa field, finish it there, and post it there instead.

You'll probably still get roasted, but at least you can say you didn't post it to MeFi.
posted by ZachsMind at 3:15 PM on February 28, 2002

You'll probably still get roasted, but at least you can say you didn't post it to MeFi.

Wow, no offense ZachsMind, honestly, but have you no confidence/self-esteem? The reason I haven't linked to the front page is that I want to find something provocative and interesting. I could always link to CNN/MSNBC etc., but it seems that what MeFi was based upon was treasures of the web.

That said, MeTa has become many things to many people. To some, it's a clubhouse full of (really lame) jokes. To others, it's a place to roast people like, apparently, ZachsMind. To me, it's what it always was; a place to report bugs and comment upon the state of MeFi when needed.

This posting to MeTa instead of MeFi is weak. Get yourself an ounce of confidence and post. If it's bad, so be it. Dust yourself off and try again. No one here really gives two shits if you fail. And the rewards when you succeed are equally unimportant. Do it for the community. (And don't do drugs; drugs are bad)
posted by BlueTrain at 3:30 PM on February 28, 2002

"...but have you no confidence/self-esteem?"

Confidence? Self-esteem? Wuzzat? Never heard of it. I swear, you kids come up with the weirdest lingo..
posted by ZachsMind at 3:34 PM on February 28, 2002

My understanding of the 'general weblog-related' category is that it was created to get news about weblogs off MetaFilter. I didn't have the impression that it was a repository for linkless conversation -- Matt has said that he doesn't want to be in the business of running a bulletin board. When MetaTalk started, I seem to recall a great deal of discontent among the members about how weblog-centric MetaFilter was becoming, with every newspaper article (and sometimes certain entries on other weblogs) triggering a thread. I think this category was intended to alleviate that.
posted by jjg at 3:39 PM on February 28, 2002

No one here really gives two shits if you fail. And the rewards when you succeed are equally unimportant. Do it for the community.

Word.
posted by mattpfeff at 3:40 PM on February 28, 2002

A) Matt is running a community site. Call it a "discussion board" or not, it doesn't matter. It's built for conversation.

B) "Linkless conversation" is the defining characteristic of MetaTalk, since the all-important link is not a requirement here (unlike in MetaFilter proper).

I'll leave it to Matt to speak to what the general category was created for, but I have a feeling it wasn't to duplicate MetaFilter posts (as we saw yesterday). That's what got me thinking about this in the first place.

I think all that's needed is a some guidance from Matt about what belongs where.
posted by fraying at 3:59 PM on February 28, 2002

Fray? Matt already did. ...kinda.
posted by ZachsMind at 4:16 PM on February 28, 2002

i posted to the metatalk dooce conversation because i was/am under the same impression as jesse. now i'm confused...
posted by heather at 4:25 PM on February 28, 2002

Conversation is a tad different back here because the main topics of discussion are, at least originally, about MetaFilter proper, which tends to feel more familiar than having a discussion about another topic. Also, simply because fewer people contribute to MetaTalk, it has the feel of a smaller, more cozy room. Similar to how conversation tends to end up in the kitchen at a party, despite a much larger living room full of many more people.

This is also why chatter breaks out a little more spontaneously back here, something I didn't even recognize as offensive to the tone of the place until people started grumbling about it in a sort of generalized way. It simply feels less formal than the Front Page.

Also, no kidding around, the grayish background suggests something sort of subterranean, like it's MetaFilter's basement, or something. I not surprised to see it evolving into what it has become.
posted by dong_resin at 4:43 PM on February 28, 2002

Er, I'm not surprised.
Me type good.
posted by dong_resin at 4:55 PM on February 28, 2002

Point taken, though mcwetboy really said all that needed to be said here.
posted by Danelope at 7:59 PM on February 28, 2002

I posted the Heather Hamilton post to meta talk because I wasn't exactly sure where to post it. On the Mefi front page, I have hardly seen any posts to weblog related things, where as on metatalk I see a fair amount more. I also noticed that if someone posted a weblog related thing (other than weblog tools), people would immediately flame the poster to death with "This should be a metatalk discussion".

So I posted it here because I thought it would have a better place here on metatalk than on the mefi front page. Also of note, I posted the link to metatalk before it was posted to mefi.
posted by thebwit at 8:13 PM on February 28, 2002

metabasement -- a dark and dank place where you can beat one another in the name of love, while others watch.
posted by blackholebrain at 9:43 PM on February 28, 2002

What's interesting is that, for a time, some of us wondered which of the two threads would be deleted. There was even a shaky time over on the MeFi thread when one or two posters commented on it. Matt wisely decided to leave them both - or lazily didn't bother to decide - and it turned out for the better, since both threads ended up fine, with quite different emphases.

There have been other recent - and equally enjoyable cases - of felicitous parallel posts. In fact, I propose calling them FPPs. ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 9:49 PM on February 28, 2002

*mathowie's head explodes*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:08 PM on February 28, 2002

Mr. Cardoso, sir you are evil :)
posted by riffola at 10:24 PM on February 28, 2002

Oops forgot to add the following:
*bowing Wayne and Garth style "I'm not worthy!"*
posted by riffola at 10:26 PM on February 28, 2002

What jesse said plus once in a while a weblog-related article goes to the front of metafilter and that's ok, if it is major news (might as well get a lot of eyeballs and brains wrapped around it).

I thought the heather thing was important enough for the main site, thought it's a judgment call for only a subset of weblog-related things.

I hate that metatalk is second tier for also-ran links, just post them on metafilter.
posted by mathowie at 10:51 PM on February 28, 2002

Matt, I'm happy to hear you say that you don't want MetaTalk to be about also-ran links. You think maybe you could note that in some sort of official way where it matters?

And if there is, indeed, some sort of "don't post about weblogs to the front page unless it's really important" rule, you might want to communicate that, too. Though, personally, that rubs me the wrong way. Both because of its subjective nature, and the fact that it casts the weblogs category of MetaTalk as "the place for unimportant weblog-related posts."

Either way, thanks for answering my question.
posted by fraying at 12:15 PM on March 1, 2002

Hmph.. I think I forgot to hit post earlier.

Or maybe I typed into the wrong thread. Anyway. Derek - here, here. I agree with you completely. And maybe if people put some of these good posts on metafilter proper, we'd expand again past the 'metafilter is all about religion, politics and other kinds of news' overall perception on the front page. (although that may just be me)

I'd like to see more design-oriented stuff again.. I used to find all sorts of new personal site stuff through metafilter to explore.
posted by rich at 12:51 PM on March 1, 2002

it casts the weblogs category of MetaTalk as "the place for unimportant weblog-related posts"

No, I think "important" means, in Heather's case, involving larger issues, not strictly weblog-related. Such as privacy and conditions of employment in general. I.e. Heather could have written what she wrote(been equally honest) in a book or a print magazine and the same questions would have arisen.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 8:43 AM on March 3, 2002