Wherefore art thou, Arizona senator? July 12, 2011 7:18 AM Subscribe
Wow, the Arizona senator post disappeared in a cloud of smoke, very quickly; too much flaming/gallows humor? Just curious, though I do know people on both sides of the issue.
It was a single link HuffPo article that was flagged to hell and the thread was filling up with weird jokes and jerks. I think people in the US may overestimate how much individual events/crimes here are of interest to a larger audience and/or have anything to talk about other than "Yep people are being crazy there" Here is the link to the thread.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:20 AM on July 12, 2011
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:20 AM on July 12, 2011
This post was deleted for the following reason: yes this sucks but single link huffopo us-gun-filter isn't so great for metafilter. -- jessamyn
Sounds like a good reason to me. Don't see what there's left to discuss.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 7:23 AM on July 12, 2011
Sounds like a good reason to me. Don't see what there's left to discuss.
posted by Foci for Analysis at 7:23 AM on July 12, 2011
The internet sure does a good job of magnifying local news. A state senator is making the Huffington Post?
posted by smackfu at 7:23 AM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by smackfu at 7:23 AM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
FfA: Yep, I got it now. Relative n00b here, just couldn't track down the link..
posted by obscurator at 7:26 AM on July 12, 2011
posted by obscurator at 7:26 AM on July 12, 2011
Wow, the first MetaTalk post about me. This is so incredible. There's so many people, I'd like to thank for making this possible.
Okay, mainly just the guy next to me who reads Huffington Post at work.
That said, obviously, I didn't think this was a bad post. I think local news can be perfectly interesting to people outside the area, when those bits of local news reflect something larger. I think this news reflects a divide in the US surrounding how people think about guns, and I think something useful could be made of that. On the other hand, it seems like some people disagree, and more importantly the powers that be disagree, so whatever. I could stew about it, I guess, or I could go back to pretending to work while I read A Dance with Dragons, and I've made my choice.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:33 AM on July 12, 2011 [8 favorites]
Okay, mainly just the guy next to me who reads Huffington Post at work.
That said, obviously, I didn't think this was a bad post. I think local news can be perfectly interesting to people outside the area, when those bits of local news reflect something larger. I think this news reflects a divide in the US surrounding how people think about guns, and I think something useful could be made of that. On the other hand, it seems like some people disagree, and more importantly the powers that be disagree, so whatever. I could stew about it, I guess, or I could go back to pretending to work while I read A Dance with Dragons, and I've made my choice.
posted by Bulgaroktonos at 7:33 AM on July 12, 2011 [8 favorites]
I will be curious to see what the fall out of the incident is, regardless of her standing as a 2nd Amendment advocate or whatever she calls herself, there is one thing that anyone familiar with firearms safety understands is that you don't brandish your weapon capriciously and you never, ever point it at something unless you plan on destroying it.
I hope this gets traction, because it'll make a nice clear line between people who understand and respect firearms and those that are simply right wing apologists regardless of how unconscionable the circumstances.
Still, no arguments on the deletion. Based on what I was seeing, it didn't look like that thread was going anywhere good.
Oh, and the lack of safety thing really bugged me because it seemed like something everyone was focusing on, but pretty much all revolvers don't have safeties, and many semi-automatics, including the ever popular Glock only have passive safeties that prevent then from being fired when they are dropped. The main, best safety on firearms has always been a responsible user, who doesn't point guns at things they don't plan on shooting.
Focusing on that particular aspect was doing the story a disservice, because it wouldn't have mattered if the gun had several actively engaged, positive locking safeties, it wouldn't change the fact that you don't point a gun at something you don't plan on shooting. It's a threat, and a danger. Simple as that.
posted by quin at 7:39 AM on July 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
I hope this gets traction, because it'll make a nice clear line between people who understand and respect firearms and those that are simply right wing apologists regardless of how unconscionable the circumstances.
Still, no arguments on the deletion. Based on what I was seeing, it didn't look like that thread was going anywhere good.
Oh, and the lack of safety thing really bugged me because it seemed like something everyone was focusing on, but pretty much all revolvers don't have safeties, and many semi-automatics, including the ever popular Glock only have passive safeties that prevent then from being fired when they are dropped. The main, best safety on firearms has always been a responsible user, who doesn't point guns at things they don't plan on shooting.
Focusing on that particular aspect was doing the story a disservice, because it wouldn't have mattered if the gun had several actively engaged, positive locking safeties, it wouldn't change the fact that you don't point a gun at something you don't plan on shooting. It's a threat, and a danger. Simple as that.
posted by quin at 7:39 AM on July 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
Yeah, I feel like we may just need to lean a little bit harder on this stuff for a bit if there's an expectation that "a bad thing happened, here's someone's opinions about it" is a solid post rather than borderline-at-best for ordinary circumstances.
The thinking for a post that's pretty much This Is A Bad Thing should really start with a couple of checkpoints before someone gets around to even considering putting it up:
1. Is there a good reason to post this? That needs to be more than "yeah, there was a bad thing!", because as much as we can totally understand bad things directly or indirectly bothering people, that's not really something that makes for great posts. If there's a substantial reason that the subject hits a lot of the "this is interesting" buttons rather than the "this is bad/sad/ugly/outrageous" buttons, it may make sense.
2. Are there good web resources about this? Editorials, opinion pieces, newswire coverage, and other sort of perfunctory or insubstantial writeups of that sort rarely make good primary source material for a Metafilter post. Did someone create a really great breakdown of a situation? Some excellent long-form reporting or a solid, non-fight-starting essay? Is there a really substantial critical reaction to or assessment of the topic? That might be more along the lines of a good post.
Posts that functionally exist mostly to create a space for people to be upset/angry/outraged/feeling-bad-out-loud about are a serious net emotional drag around here. I understand that people post stuff because they feel like it's important or should be known, and I understand that some folks here like those sorts of threads for whatever reason, but it's really really far from Metafilter doing what it was meant to do and usually pretty far from Metafilter doing it's best at what it does do.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:41 AM on July 12, 2011 [24 favorites]
The thinking for a post that's pretty much This Is A Bad Thing should really start with a couple of checkpoints before someone gets around to even considering putting it up:
1. Is there a good reason to post this? That needs to be more than "yeah, there was a bad thing!", because as much as we can totally understand bad things directly or indirectly bothering people, that's not really something that makes for great posts. If there's a substantial reason that the subject hits a lot of the "this is interesting" buttons rather than the "this is bad/sad/ugly/outrageous" buttons, it may make sense.
2. Are there good web resources about this? Editorials, opinion pieces, newswire coverage, and other sort of perfunctory or insubstantial writeups of that sort rarely make good primary source material for a Metafilter post. Did someone create a really great breakdown of a situation? Some excellent long-form reporting or a solid, non-fight-starting essay? Is there a really substantial critical reaction to or assessment of the topic? That might be more along the lines of a good post.
Posts that functionally exist mostly to create a space for people to be upset/angry/outraged/feeling-bad-out-loud about are a serious net emotional drag around here. I understand that people post stuff because they feel like it's important or should be known, and I understand that some folks here like those sorts of threads for whatever reason, but it's really really far from Metafilter doing what it was meant to do and usually pretty far from Metafilter doing it's best at what it does do.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:41 AM on July 12, 2011 [24 favorites]
I feel like we may just need to lean a little bit harder on this stuff
THANK YOU.
The "Found something cool on the web?" standard is still gold in my book.
posted by Gator at 7:44 AM on July 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
THANK YOU.
The "Found something cool on the web?" standard is still gold in my book.
posted by Gator at 7:44 AM on July 12, 2011 [3 favorites]
I think this news reflects a divide in the US surrounding how people think about guns, and I think something useful could be made of that.
I thought it was interesting that nobody noted that the linked articulate indicated that gun rights activists and owners were horrified by her actions.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:55 AM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
I thought it was interesting that nobody noted that the linked articulate indicated that gun rights activists and owners were horrified by her actions.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:55 AM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
*grumble* I was working on what was turning into a lengthy comment about castle doctrine when the post was deleted. An interesting discussion about the topic could have flowered if the post had set up a stronger foundation. Alas, was not to be.
posted by zarq at 7:59 AM on July 12, 2011
posted by zarq at 7:59 AM on July 12, 2011
The thinking for a post that's pretty much This Is A Bad Thing should really start with a couple of checkpoints before someone gets around to even considering putting it up:
the Cortex doctrine. I like it. The Notional MeFi Case Reporter shall cite this prominently.
posted by norm at 8:00 AM on July 12, 2011
the Cortex doctrine. I like it. The Notional MeFi Case Reporter shall cite this prominently.
posted by norm at 8:00 AM on July 12, 2011
I was working on what was turning into a lengthy comment about castle doctrine when the post was deleted.
Mildly curious and not looking to start a fight or duplicate that thread over here, but does the castle doctrine have to do with that post?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:15 AM on July 12, 2011
Mildly curious and not looking to start a fight or duplicate that thread over here, but does the castle doctrine have to do with that post?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:15 AM on July 12, 2011
Brandon Blatcher: " Mildly curious and not looking to start a fight or duplicate that thread over here, but does the castle doctrine have to do with that post?"
If the article is reposted to the Blue, perhaps I'll reconstruct the comment in a new thread.
posted by zarq at 8:29 AM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
If the article is reposted to the Blue, perhaps I'll reconstruct the comment in a new thread.
posted by zarq at 8:29 AM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think this news reflects a divide in the US surrounding how people think about guns, and I think something useful could be made of that.
Perhaps if you collected a series of links, to a series of similar incidents. That's more evidence of a trend. This reads like just an isolated incident, which may indeed reflect a divide in the US -- or it could reflect how nuts this particular state senator is, or it could reflect "slow news day at Local Paper", or...etc.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:32 AM on July 12, 2011
Perhaps if you collected a series of links, to a series of similar incidents. That's more evidence of a trend. This reads like just an isolated incident, which may indeed reflect a divide in the US -- or it could reflect how nuts this particular state senator is, or it could reflect "slow news day at Local Paper", or...etc.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 8:32 AM on July 12, 2011
HNNNNNNGHHH WHEREFORE MEANS WHY, DAMN IT
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:39 AM on July 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:39 AM on July 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
oops
posted by obscurator at 8:43 AM on July 12, 2011
posted by obscurator at 8:43 AM on July 12, 2011
Mods get dumped on for bad deletions all the time, so I'm just going to throw this out here: GOOD DELETION.
Posts that functionally exist mostly to create a space for people to be upset/angry/outraged/feeling-bad-out-loud about are a serious net emotional drag around here. I understand that people post stuff because they feel like it's important or should be known, and I understand that some folks here like those sorts of threads for whatever reason, but it's really really far from Metafilter doing what it was meant to do and usually pretty far from Metafilter doing it's best at what it does do.
More of this please. Really.
posted by Think_Long at 8:43 AM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
Posts that functionally exist mostly to create a space for people to be upset/angry/outraged/feeling-bad-out-loud about are a serious net emotional drag around here. I understand that people post stuff because they feel like it's important or should be known, and I understand that some folks here like those sorts of threads for whatever reason, but it's really really far from Metafilter doing what it was meant to do and usually pretty far from Metafilter doing it's best at what it does do.
More of this please. Really.
posted by Think_Long at 8:43 AM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
I thought this was actually an amusing post, but the truth is that stories on crazy stuff state senators do is a meatspace version of nutpicking. State senators/representatives are full of loons and idiots, and there are enough of them that someone, somewhere is going to do/say something stupid. An FPP on "look what a state senator did/said" isn't that useful. (though pulling out a gun and pointing it at a reporter does take it to the next level)
posted by deanc at 10:11 AM on July 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by deanc at 10:11 AM on July 12, 2011 [2 favorites]
News of the weirdo.
posted by crunchland at 10:13 AM on July 12, 2011
posted by crunchland at 10:13 AM on July 12, 2011
deanc: "An FPP on "look what a state senator did/said" isn't that useful. (though pulling out a gun and pointing it at a reporter does take it to the next level)"
There are a lot of potential avenues of discussion there, including the NRA stance on gun control and gun locks, gun education and safety issues, abuses of power and overt or subtle threats by government officials, the fact that the reporter didn't file an incident report with the police or bring Klein up on charges, the proximity of the incident to the Tuscon shooting, Arizona gun and self defense laws, etc., etc.
The problem is, the way the post was framed, there's little foundation to expand into those topics. Some folks were beginning to do so a bit in the thread, but it was slow going.
posted by zarq at 10:17 AM on July 12, 2011
There are a lot of potential avenues of discussion there, including the NRA stance on gun control and gun locks, gun education and safety issues, abuses of power and overt or subtle threats by government officials, the fact that the reporter didn't file an incident report with the police or bring Klein up on charges, the proximity of the incident to the Tuscon shooting, Arizona gun and self defense laws, etc., etc.
The problem is, the way the post was framed, there's little foundation to expand into those topics. Some folks were beginning to do so a bit in the thread, but it was slow going.
posted by zarq at 10:17 AM on July 12, 2011
And with the corresponding "Gun posts tend to go terribly here, so if you are doing a post that involves guns or gun violence please be very careful with your framing because if it's Yet Another Gun Trainwreck we will delete it with a 'what were you thinking?' reason for deletion" caveat.
This site is not at all set up to deal with long angry posts on hot button political topics. People are welcome to try to make posts on those topics better, but they're very difficult to do well.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:47 AM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
This site is not at all set up to deal with long angry posts on hot button political topics. People are welcome to try to make posts on those topics better, but they're very difficult to do well.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:47 AM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
I'm usually a FIAMO type, but I'm getting sick of the OutrageFilter around here and I'm glad to see some clamping down on it. If you feel like you just have to have a conversation about something that happened, there exist many social networks in which to start one.
posted by desjardins at 11:38 AM on July 12, 2011
posted by desjardins at 11:38 AM on July 12, 2011
Amen, my European sista.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:40 AM on July 12, 2011
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:40 AM on July 12, 2011
What if "the best of the web" criteria gets so strict, that only MetaFilter qualifies?
in my mind it would look a lot like aiming an old tube video camera at a television screen that's showing the output of said video camera, and slowly twisting...
posted by davejay at 11:52 AM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
in my mind it would look a lot like aiming an old tube video camera at a television screen that's showing the output of said video camera, and slowly twisting...
posted by davejay at 11:52 AM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
I feel that excessive deleting is lowering the quality of Metafilter.
It does make for peace and placidity, but then, so does death.
posted by jamjam at 11:55 AM on July 12, 2011
It does make for peace and placidity, but then, so does death.
posted by jamjam at 11:55 AM on July 12, 2011
When the mods delete a post, aren't they forcing us to not read it?
[Except I read it, which is where I got that awesome logic.]
posted by perhapses at 11:55 AM on July 12, 2011
[Except I read it, which is where I got that awesome logic.]
posted by perhapses at 11:55 AM on July 12, 2011
I feel that excessive deleting is lowering the quality of Metafilter.
There was nothing of quality about that post.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:00 PM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
There was nothing of quality about that post.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 12:00 PM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
I feel that excessive deleting is lowering the quality of Metafilter.
I feel that judicious deleting is improving the quality of Metafilter.
posted by arcticwoman at 12:02 PM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
I feel that judicious deleting is improving the quality of Metafilter.
posted by arcticwoman at 12:02 PM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
I feel that excessive deleting is lowering the quality of Metafilter.
Seriously? I have felt that Metafilter is a) doing quite well of late, much better than 2006-2009, say, and b) is if anything too permissive with allowing thin posts on controversial topics, as evidenced by multiple thousand comment and up posts staying around. I'd love to see some examples of deleted posts that have diminished the experience. Can you provide some links?
posted by norm at 12:02 PM on July 12, 2011
Seriously? I have felt that Metafilter is a) doing quite well of late, much better than 2006-2009, say, and b) is if anything too permissive with allowing thin posts on controversial topics, as evidenced by multiple thousand comment and up posts staying around. I'd love to see some examples of deleted posts that have diminished the experience. Can you provide some links?
posted by norm at 12:02 PM on July 12, 2011
I feel that excessive feeling is lowering the quality of MetaFilter.
posted by adipocere at 12:18 PM on July 12, 2011
posted by adipocere at 12:18 PM on July 12, 2011
one correction - i actually ran across this story on yahoo before i came here, so i don't think it's just a local story anymore
and yeah, it figures that someone would post it here
and no, it getting axed was not a big deal
posted by pyramid termite at 1:15 PM on July 12, 2011
and yeah, it figures that someone would post it here
and no, it getting axed was not a big deal
posted by pyramid termite at 1:15 PM on July 12, 2011
I feel that excessive feeling is lowering the quality of MetaFilter.
This surprises me coming from you, adipocere; I've always imputed high emotional tone to your contributions.
But perhaps your comment was intended to be confessional.
In any case, I will imagine you speaking in a dull monotone from now on if will that will help you not-feel better.
posted by jamjam at 1:31 PM on July 12, 2011
This surprises me coming from you, adipocere; I've always imputed high emotional tone to your contributions.
But perhaps your comment was intended to be confessional.
In any case, I will imagine you speaking in a dull monotone from now on if will that will help you not-feel better.
posted by jamjam at 1:31 PM on July 12, 2011
Mods get dumped on for bad deletions all the time, so I'm just going to throw this out here: GOOD DELETION.
That's one of my favorite strands of MeTa. My favorite, though, is, well let's just say that I think I'm going to get a t-shirt that simply reads "How Is This Not Chat Filter?", then for the rest of my life, whenever someone asks me what it means, I'll claim that I do not know, then make straight-faced small talk about something that is so trivial it makes them uncomfortable.
posted by herbplarfegan at 1:38 PM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
That's one of my favorite strands of MeTa. My favorite, though, is, well let's just say that I think I'm going to get a t-shirt that simply reads "How Is This Not Chat Filter?", then for the rest of my life, whenever someone asks me what it means, I'll claim that I do not know, then make straight-faced small talk about something that is so trivial it makes them uncomfortable.
posted by herbplarfegan at 1:38 PM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
As a little follow-up, she has denied the claim from the original story, saying the reporter put himself in the line of fire.
posted by smackfu at 3:12 PM on July 12, 2011
posted by smackfu at 3:12 PM on July 12, 2011
I could go back to pretending to work while I read A Dance with Dragons, and I've made my choice.
HOLY FUCK IT IS JULY 12TH WINTER IS COMING RIGHT NOW.
OMG thankyouthankyouthankyou I forgot it was out today.
posted by misha at 4:23 PM on July 12, 2011
HOLY FUCK IT IS JULY 12TH WINTER IS COMING RIGHT NOW.
OMG thankyouthankyouthankyou I forgot it was out today.
posted by misha at 4:23 PM on July 12, 2011
With perfect timing that's unusual for me, I finished book 4 last night in time for my Kindle to pull the new book down. I'm here in China and this makes me feel like I'm finally living in the future. So where do I head to avoid talking about it until I finish book 5? MetaCooler?
posted by arcticseal at 4:46 PM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by arcticseal at 4:46 PM on July 12, 2011 [1 favorite]
The thinking for a post that's pretty much This Is A Bad Thing should really start with a couple of checkpoints
Checkpoint Alpha, Checkpoint Beta, and Checkpoint Cortex.
posted by hippybear at 5:59 PM on July 12, 2011
Checkpoint Alpha, Checkpoint Beta, and Checkpoint Cortex.
posted by hippybear at 5:59 PM on July 12, 2011
Randomly if folk are thinking about posting a link to the Huffington Post, do remember that a good chunk of its content is relinking/news aggregation. If you have a story in which you want to link to the original reporting, not just the HuffPo's quotes and rewording of that original reporting, check the articles that the HuffPo links to. And link to those, and then secondarily to the HuffPo. (Multiple links often means a higher chance that your post will stick around, you know, dependent on content of the whole and all.)
Recently: Thanks for the Apology, Huffington Post. Now Please Apologize to the Writer You Suspended
posted by batgrlHG at 12:30 AM on July 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
Recently: Thanks for the Apology, Huffington Post. Now Please Apologize to the Writer You Suspended
posted by batgrlHG at 12:30 AM on July 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
Yeah we have a sort of haqte-on for the usual suspect aggregators that do this sort of thing. Sometimes there are sites that really add something to a bunch of thin reporting but often it's just click- and link-bait and I hate to give them any more traffic to their annoying SEO tactics.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:40 AM on July 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:40 AM on July 13, 2011 [1 favorite]
That post should have stayed for this comment if nothing else.
posted by adamvasco at 8:11 AM on July 13, 2011
posted by adamvasco at 8:11 AM on July 13, 2011
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posted by dunkadunc at 7:20 AM on July 12, 2011