MetaFilter: erudite dialog November 4, 2011 1:07 PM Subscribe
Apparently we're erudite! And beloved by children (or something...)
A shout out from Liza Daly in Book: A Futurist's Manifesto.
In 2011, nearly every online form of self-expression enables commentary. Whether it is the erudite dialog of MetaFilter, dubious comments on YouTube, or a simple binary Facebook “like,” children today are growing up with media that is almost universally participatory.
A shout out from Liza Daly in Book: A Futurist's Manifesto.
In 2011, nearly every online form of self-expression enables commentary. Whether it is the erudite dialog of MetaFilter, dubious comments on YouTube, or a simple binary Facebook “like,” children today are growing up with media that is almost universally participatory.
Erudite! Fuck yeah!
posted by cmoj at 1:16 PM on November 4, 2011 [25 favorites]
posted by cmoj at 1:16 PM on November 4, 2011 [25 favorites]
...the erudite dialog of MetaFilter...
You know that episode of the Simpsons where Homer is mansion-sitting for Mr. Burns? And he dresses up in Burns' smoking jacket and starts drinking cognac in front of the fireplace, because that's how fancy rich people spend their time? And Homer proceeds to swish the cognac around in the glass, and it gets everywhere and start a fire?
That.
posted by griphus at 1:17 PM on November 4, 2011 [29 favorites]
You know that episode of the Simpsons where Homer is mansion-sitting for Mr. Burns? And he dresses up in Burns' smoking jacket and starts drinking cognac in front of the fireplace, because that's how fancy rich people spend their time? And Homer proceeds to swish the cognac around in the glass, and it gets everywhere and start a fire?
That.
posted by griphus at 1:17 PM on November 4, 2011 [29 favorites]
er·u·dite... just in case anyone else was wondering.
/ˈɛryʊˌdaɪt, ˈɛrʊ-/ er-yoo-dahyt, er-oo-
adjective
characterized by great knowledge; learned or scholarly: an erudite professor; an erudite commentary.
posted by FishBike at 1:17 PM on November 4, 2011 [8 favorites]
For a second I thought that said "crudité dialog," which is probably the title of a very boring blog somewhere.
posted by argonauta at 1:18 PM on November 4, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by argonauta at 1:18 PM on November 4, 2011 [5 favorites]
Mmmm....yeahhhh....oooohhh.....mmmmm
And then I erudited all over MetaFilter.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 1:20 PM on November 4, 2011
And then I erudited all over MetaFilter.
posted by spikeleemajortomdickandharryconnickjrmints at 1:20 PM on November 4, 2011
Thanks to Metafilter I can warp more young minds per post then I could using The Other Guys
posted by The Whelk at 1:21 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 1:21 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
I would totally read a crudite dialog: so then the carrot stick said to the snap pea...
posted by libraryhead at 1:21 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by libraryhead at 1:21 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
"The baby carrots, they're a little soft."
"Yes, they've been sitting out for a bit."
"I see, I see. The broccoli is fantastic."
"Very crispy, yes, and the ranch dressing compliments it perfectly."
"Am I the only one who originally pronounced this kruhd-ite?"
"No, I did as well."
"Yes, me too."
"Good to know. The grape tomatoes just burst in your mouth, don't they?"
"Yes, yes they do."
posted by griphus at 1:21 PM on November 4, 2011 [13 favorites]
"Yes, they've been sitting out for a bit."
"I see, I see. The broccoli is fantastic."
"Very crispy, yes, and the ranch dressing compliments it perfectly."
"Am I the only one who originally pronounced this kruhd-ite?"
"No, I did as well."
"Yes, me too."
"Good to know. The grape tomatoes just burst in your mouth, don't they?"
"Yes, yes they do."
posted by griphus at 1:21 PM on November 4, 2011 [13 favorites]
"Do you want to try the dip, or the nothing at the bottom of your very being."
"The dip please, I can't feel my face."
"I made it myself! I will remember none of this."
"Thanks. That is the only comfort, to be free from the torment of memory."
"Hey is that Becky?"
posted by The Whelk at 1:23 PM on November 4, 2011 [13 favorites]
"The dip please, I can't feel my face."
"I made it myself! I will remember none of this."
"Thanks. That is the only comfort, to be free from the torment of memory."
"Hey is that Becky?"
posted by The Whelk at 1:23 PM on November 4, 2011 [13 favorites]
For a moment I thought they'd loaded up AskMe and dropped it from the sky...
posted by infini at 1:26 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by infini at 1:26 PM on November 4, 2011
Also, I think that "crudité", along with "mirepoix" and "aioli" are all winners of the Rather Pretentiously Adopted Name For Really Simple Food award.
posted by griphus at 1:26 PM on November 4, 2011 [8 favorites]
posted by griphus at 1:26 PM on November 4, 2011 [8 favorites]
1. Erudite is an anagram of "rude tie".
2. Rodney Dangerfield was deceptively well-spoken.
Nothing further, your honor.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:28 PM on November 4, 2011 [7 favorites]
2. Rodney Dangerfield was deceptively well-spoken.
Nothing further, your honor.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:28 PM on November 4, 2011 [7 favorites]
A book futurist, of a sort. She created the Ibis epub reader, and speaks regularly about digital reading. Her company's site: http://threepress.org/about/
posted by libraryhead at 1:28 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by libraryhead at 1:28 PM on November 4, 2011
They get on my n'oevres.
posted by griphus at 1:30 PM on November 4, 2011 [10 favorites]
posted by griphus at 1:30 PM on November 4, 2011 [10 favorites]
"aioli": Yeah! Why can't they just use a simple English word like mayonnaise!
posted by bonehead at 1:30 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by bonehead at 1:30 PM on November 4, 2011
"mirepoix" and "aioli"
Are both specific words with specific meaning, a mixture of onion/celery/carrot and an olive oil sauce that contains garlic, respectfully. "Garlic Aioil" is redundant.
posted by The Whelk at 1:33 PM on November 4, 2011
Are both specific words with specific meaning, a mixture of onion/celery/carrot and an olive oil sauce that contains garlic, respectfully. "Garlic Aioil" is redundant.
posted by The Whelk at 1:33 PM on November 4, 2011
Also, I think that "crudité", along with "mirepoix" and "aioli" are all winners of the Rather Pretentiously Adopted Name For Really Simple Food award.
You spilled fancy mayo all over my car hole!
posted by villanelles at dawn at 1:34 PM on November 4, 2011 [4 favorites]
You spilled fancy mayo all over my car hole!
posted by villanelles at dawn at 1:34 PM on November 4, 2011 [4 favorites]
Awww... I think they're kind of charcuterie. I'm quite fondue of them, myself.
posted by argonauta at 1:36 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by argonauta at 1:36 PM on November 4, 2011
yo dawg, dis be sum fancy fuckin' tawkin'.
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:37 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by quonsar II: smock fishpants and the temple of foon at 1:37 PM on November 4, 2011
er·u·dite
/ˈɛryʊˌdaɪt, ˈɛrʊ-/ er-yoo-dahyt, er-oo-
Can we get into a pronunciation fight about this word?
posted by villanelles at dawn at 1:38 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
/ˈɛryʊˌdaɪt, ˈɛrʊ-/ er-yoo-dahyt, er-oo-
Can we get into a pronunciation fight about this word?
posted by villanelles at dawn at 1:38 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
eh-roo-dih-tay.
posted by griphus at 1:42 PM on November 4, 2011 [8 favorites]
posted by griphus at 1:42 PM on November 4, 2011 [8 favorites]
I LOVE saying mirepoix!
posted by raisingsand
I agree! I referred to Jonathan Coultan and Paul & Storm as "the mirepoix of geek musical comedy" at a gig last year - mostly amusing myself and five members of the audience. I still think this is a lovely use of the word.
posted by blurker at 1:43 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by raisingsand
I agree! I referred to Jonathan Coultan and Paul & Storm as "the mirepoix of geek musical comedy" at a gig last year - mostly amusing myself and five members of the audience. I still think this is a lovely use of the word.
posted by blurker at 1:43 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
Isn't "erudite dialog" just a fancy way of saying "smarty pants talk"?
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 1:45 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 1:45 PM on November 4, 2011
Hi! I'm Liza Daly!
posted by nev at 1:46 PM on November 4, 2011 [16 favorites]
posted by nev at 1:46 PM on November 4, 2011 [16 favorites]
"Let me tell you about the level 57 Erudite necromancer I had in EverQuest."
"No."
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:46 PM on November 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
"No."
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 1:46 PM on November 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
These crudités will go nicely with my edible complex.
posted by yellowbinder at 1:47 PM on November 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by yellowbinder at 1:47 PM on November 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
villanelles at dawn: "Can we get into a pronunciation fight about this word?"
I'm not much for fancy talkin', but I think if you say it without rolling your eyes you're doing it wrong.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 1:48 PM on November 4, 2011
I'm not much for fancy talkin', but I think if you say it without rolling your eyes you're doing it wrong.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 1:48 PM on November 4, 2011
everyone make sound words
posted by The Whelk at 1:49 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by The Whelk at 1:49 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Hi Liza Daly!! (nev)
posted by thankyouforyourconsideration at 1:50 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by thankyouforyourconsideration at 1:50 PM on November 4, 2011
If you talk to anyone who doesn't watch food tv shows or doesn't read food magazines and say "crudité"
they blink and look at you like a deer in the headlights and go: "Wha..."
Then you're left explaining it's the name of those veggie dips everyone always has at parties.
posted by royalsong at 1:51 PM on November 4, 2011
they blink and look at you like a deer in the headlights and go: "Wha..."
Then you're left explaining it's the name of those veggie dips everyone always has at parties.
posted by royalsong at 1:51 PM on November 4, 2011
Hi! I'm Liza Daly!
posted by nev at 1:46 PM on November 4 [+] [!] No other comments.
Hi!
posted by rtha at 1:52 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by nev at 1:46 PM on November 4 [+] [!] No other comments.
Hi!
posted by rtha at 1:52 PM on November 4, 2011
I should have known -- make that metafilter's own...
posted by libraryhead at 1:54 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by libraryhead at 1:54 PM on November 4, 2011
Hi Liza! Sorry about all the crudite in the thread.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 1:54 PM on November 4, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by villanelles at dawn at 1:54 PM on November 4, 2011 [4 favorites]
*awkward silence*
posted by nev at 1:54 PM on November 4, 2011 [11 favorites]
posted by nev at 1:54 PM on November 4, 2011 [11 favorites]
I'm flagging myself for that.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 1:57 PM on November 4, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by villanelles at dawn at 1:57 PM on November 4, 2011 [5 favorites]
You take that kind of language right back to the Kevin Smith thread where you found it.
posted by griphus at 1:58 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by griphus at 1:58 PM on November 4, 2011
Also, I think that "crudité", along with "mirepoix" and "aioli" are all winners of the Rather Pretentiously Adopted Name For Really Simple Food award.
Those god damn foreigners with their words for things!
posted by cmoj at 1:59 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
Those god damn foreigners with their words for things!
posted by cmoj at 1:59 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
Thanks — I'll be showing this essay to my digital humanities class.
posted by RogerB at 2:01 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by RogerB at 2:01 PM on November 4, 2011
You take that kind of language right back to the Kevin Smith thread where you found it.
Don't order the aioli.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 2:02 PM on November 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
Don't order the aioli.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 2:02 PM on November 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
By "foreigners" I think you mean french. Although I usually prefer the German words for things.
posted by thankyouforyourconsideration at 2:02 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by thankyouforyourconsideration at 2:02 PM on November 4, 2011
You know what? Fine! You people can have all the words you want. Don't blame me when none of you can understand one another! I don't need this! I'm gonna go hang out with George Orwell and his bizarre theories about Anglo-Saxon etymology.
posted by griphus at 2:02 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by griphus at 2:02 PM on November 4, 2011
Sadly, the LORD smote the Erudites with a disease of the bowels, and they were overthrown, that they could not recover themselves; and they were destroyed before the LORD, and before his host (a colocation centre near Jericho).
posted by Abiezer at 2:02 PM on November 4, 2011 [5 favorites]
posted by Abiezer at 2:02 PM on November 4, 2011 [5 favorites]
Say what you want, but Mirepoix produced Madonna's best work in years.
posted by mykescipark at 2:03 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by mykescipark at 2:03 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
I do love a good rice Pitof.
posted by hermitosis at 2:04 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by hermitosis at 2:04 PM on November 4, 2011
That'll teach anyone to call us erudite again.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 2:16 PM on November 4, 2011 [6 favorites]
posted by villanelles at dawn at 2:16 PM on November 4, 2011 [6 favorites]
Danny Aioli was easily the best part of Hudson Hawk.
*awkward silence*
Family dinners are the best.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:18 PM on November 4, 2011 [4 favorites]
*awkward silence*
Family dinners are the best.
posted by cortex (staff) at 2:18 PM on November 4, 2011 [4 favorites]
villanelles at dawn: "I'm flagging myself for that."
Today on Metafilter, erudite crudité flogging.
Hi nev!
posted by zarq at 2:21 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
Today on Metafilter, erudite crudité flogging.
Hi nev!
posted by zarq at 2:21 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
Metafilter is the tower of Babel.
Our hubris has brought our downfall upon us.
posted by joost de vries at 2:23 PM on November 4, 2011
Our hubris has brought our downfall upon us.
posted by joost de vries at 2:23 PM on November 4, 2011
You know who else's hubris brought the downfall upon him?
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:51 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by UbuRoivas at 2:51 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
That's right. Batman.
posted by yellowbinder at 2:53 PM on November 4, 2011 [4 favorites]
posted by yellowbinder at 2:53 PM on November 4, 2011 [4 favorites]
As per link I just happened across, you know who else had a very dodgy moustache?
posted by Abiezer at 2:53 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Abiezer at 2:53 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
I used to sniff erudite when I was a young punk. Man, that stuff'll get you wrecked.
posted by Decani at 2:56 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by Decani at 2:56 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
The Lord struck them and made them speak German.
To make them hard to understand.
posted by joost de vries at 2:59 PM on November 4, 2011
To make them hard to understand.
posted by joost de vries at 2:59 PM on November 4, 2011
Batman? I was thinking of Agamemnon, but that's probably because I have more erudity that you.
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:00 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:00 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
I plate my beans with hubris
I do it every night.
It makes the beans taste funny
but it keeps me erudite.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 3:02 PM on November 4, 2011 [25 favorites]
I do it every night.
It makes the beans taste funny
but it keeps me erudite.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 3:02 PM on November 4, 2011 [25 favorites]
Not Ozymandias?
posted by joost de vries at 3:03 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by joost de vries at 3:03 PM on November 4, 2011
Two words I hate because they are pronounced in a way that is just wrong to me: 'bergamot' and 'maladroit'.
Why they're berg-uh-mawt and mal-uh-droight instead of berz-juh-moe and mal-ah-dwot is plainly just to mess with me.
posted by winna at 3:03 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Why they're berg-uh-mawt and mal-uh-droight instead of berz-juh-moe and mal-ah-dwot is plainly just to mess with me.
posted by winna at 3:03 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
In Xanadu did Kublai Kan
A stately crudité decre
posted by griphus at 3:06 PM on November 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
A stately crudité decre
posted by griphus at 3:06 PM on November 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
Stupid french with their affected pronunciation of bergamot.
posted by joost de vries at 3:06 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by joost de vries at 3:06 PM on November 4, 2011
Les paradis artificiel
posted by joost de vries at 3:07 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by joost de vries at 3:07 PM on November 4, 2011
For all we know, Ozymandias led a charmed life to a ripe old age. It was only his legacy that didn't live up to his expectations.
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:13 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:13 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
I saw Liza Daly speak somewhere once, I'm sure of it, and she was very good, and I thought, "Huh, I knew all that," but of course she had actually made her random thoughts into theories and cohesive sentences with logic and a point and all. So, cool, hi!
posted by thinkpiece at 3:17 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by thinkpiece at 3:17 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Is erudite commentary the same as snark?
posted by found missing at 4:03 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by found missing at 4:03 PM on November 4, 2011
an olive oil sauce that contains garlic, respectfully
Yeah, don't dis garlic. I did that once, and it clove me in two, just to teach me a lesson.
And I didn't get better, either. It still ails me, this condition.
posted by stebulus at 4:06 PM on November 4, 2011 [5 favorites]
Yeah, don't dis garlic. I did that once, and it clove me in two, just to teach me a lesson.
And I didn't get better, either. It still ails me, this condition.
posted by stebulus at 4:06 PM on November 4, 2011 [5 favorites]
It wasn't until I read this thread that I realized that I have never heard the word "bergamot" said aloud.
(Really? It's "berg-uh-mawt"? For real? Damn. Stupid voice in my head, pronouncing everything wrong.)
posted by BitterOldPunk at 4:08 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
(Really? It's "berg-uh-mawt"? For real? Damn. Stupid voice in my head, pronouncing everything wrong.)
posted by BitterOldPunk at 4:08 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
Is erudite commentary the same as snark?
I think it means our snark is all fancy sounding, like we dressed it up for a night on the town.
posted by never used baby shoes at 4:15 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
I think it means our snark is all fancy sounding, like we dressed it up for a night on the town.
posted by never used baby shoes at 4:15 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Two words I hate because they are pronounced in a way that is just wrong to me: 'bergamot' and 'maladroit'.
I feel that was about "blackguard."
posted by Diablevert at 4:23 PM on November 4, 2011
I feel that was about "blackguard."
posted by Diablevert at 4:23 PM on November 4, 2011
By "foreigners" I think you mean french. Although I usually prefer the German words for things.
It's like there's something in most English–speakers' minds where "let's borrow words" sound exactly the same as "let's borrow French words!" There are six to seven thousand languages in the world people, let's spread the love.
posted by Jehan at 4:23 PM on November 4, 2011
It's like there's something in most English–speakers' minds where "let's borrow words" sound exactly the same as "let's borrow French words!" There are six to seven thousand languages in the world people, let's spread the love.
posted by Jehan at 4:23 PM on November 4, 2011
We don't borrow French words, we conquer them. Also what's wrong with you people? Bergamot and blackguard are some of the funnest words to pronounce, you grumpy Cholmondeleys.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 4:27 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by villanelles at dawn at 4:27 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
We don't borrow French words, we conquer them.
The history of the English language suggests it's roughly the exact opposite.
posted by Jehan at 4:35 PM on November 4, 2011 [8 favorites]
The history of the English language suggests it's roughly the exact opposite.
posted by Jehan at 4:35 PM on November 4, 2011 [8 favorites]
The history of the English language suggests it's roughly the exact opposite.
Some languages are born French, others have it thrust upon them.
posted by Gygesringtone at 4:37 PM on November 4, 2011 [4 favorites]
Some languages are born French, others have it thrust upon them.
posted by Gygesringtone at 4:37 PM on November 4, 2011 [4 favorites]
It's not that French words are any more foreign than other words, it's that they strike a culturally convenient balance. The words are conspicuous as not-English in the clustering of their vowels and consonants, but not so unapproachable as to defy casual parsing; pronunciation is exotic, but not so exotic that one can't have a go at it; the words themselves may be unfamiliar but the characters that make them up are, setting aside the stray ornamental cedilla or accent mark, comfortable in a way that Cyrillic or Greek or (god help you) kanji are not; and one can feel both silly to be mangling a bit of French while also feeling just a touch sophisticated and romantic.
Sorry, German; condolences, Polish; best luck next year, Chinese. It's French, always French. The game was rigged from the start. C'est la vie.
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:37 PM on November 4, 2011 [7 favorites]
Sorry, German; condolences, Polish; best luck next year, Chinese. It's French, always French. The game was rigged from the start. C'est la vie.
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:37 PM on November 4, 2011 [7 favorites]
Some languages are born French, others have it thrust upon them.
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language...is that English doesn't just borrow words; on occasion, French has pursued the English language down alleyways to beat it unconscious and stuff its pockets with new vocabulary."
posted by Jehan at 4:40 PM on November 4, 2011 [8 favorites]
"The problem with defending the purity of the English language...is that English doesn't just borrow words; on occasion, French has pursued the English language down alleyways to beat it unconscious and stuff its pockets with new vocabulary."
posted by Jehan at 4:40 PM on November 4, 2011 [8 favorites]
The game was rigged from the start.
You're right. I should have learned that in kindergarten.
posted by found missing at 4:42 PM on November 4, 2011 [4 favorites]
You're right. I should have learned that in kindergarten.
posted by found missing at 4:42 PM on November 4, 2011 [4 favorites]
Your weltanschauung is well and truly showing.
It causes me a lot of angst.
posted by Jehan at 4:42 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
It causes me a lot of angst.
posted by Jehan at 4:42 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Don't you think in this case it has much more to do with these being cooking words and French cuisine having been the dominant tradition? Just as so many words in philosophy are borrowed from German?
posted by villanelles at dawn at 4:43 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by villanelles at dawn at 4:43 PM on November 4, 2011
erudite crudité. C'mon, it's easy. just alt 130 on your keypad and no chance of crew-dight.
posted by Cranberry at 4:43 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by Cranberry at 4:43 PM on November 4, 2011
Dominant western tradition, that is.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 4:46 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by villanelles at dawn at 4:46 PM on November 4, 2011
"English is the result of Norman men-at-arms attempting to pick up Saxon barmaids and is no more legitimate than any of the other results. "
I didn't even have to change that one.
posted by Gygesringtone at 4:49 PM on November 4, 2011 [9 favorites]
I didn't even have to change that one.
posted by Gygesringtone at 4:49 PM on November 4, 2011 [9 favorites]
Don't you think in this case it has much more to do with these being cooking words and French cuisine having been the dominant tradition? Just as so many words in philosophy are borrowed from German?
Fully a third of English vocabulary is from French*, so it's hard to put it down to pure coincidence. The dominance of a culture that causes its cuisine to be more widely adopted involves the same social processes that cause word borrowing.
*Or thereabouts, depending on how you count it.
posted by Jehan at 4:50 PM on November 4, 2011
Fully a third of English vocabulary is from French*, so it's hard to put it down to pure coincidence. The dominance of a culture that causes its cuisine to be more widely adopted involves the same social processes that cause word borrowing.
*Or thereabouts, depending on how you count it.
posted by Jehan at 4:50 PM on November 4, 2011
Just as so many words in philosophy are borrowed from German?
Yes, but the the French is spritzed into a conversation like a perfume, flirtatiously; German is brought in like a book, plopped aggressively on the discursive table like some dusty grimoire, with a thud, perhaps admirable for its weight and assertiveness but never something that makes one think, "yes, perhaps that's what we'll name the next child, if it's a girl...".
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:51 PM on November 4, 2011 [15 favorites]
Yes, but the the French is spritzed into a conversation like a perfume, flirtatiously; German is brought in like a book, plopped aggressively on the discursive table like some dusty grimoire, with a thud, perhaps admirable for its weight and assertiveness but never something that makes one think, "yes, perhaps that's what we'll name the next child, if it's a girl...".
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:51 PM on November 4, 2011 [15 favorites]
The eridute crudité was crammed with cordite.
posted by jenkinsEar at 4:55 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by jenkinsEar at 4:55 PM on November 4, 2011
Fully a third of English vocabulary is from French*, so it's hard to put it down to pure coincidence. The dominance of a culture that causes its cuisine to be more widely adopted involves the same social processes that cause word borrowing.
I mean I definitely don't dispute that as a more broad explanation of French words in English vocabulary, but the words we're talking about here, aioli and mirepoix and crudite, are much more recent additions to English and come to us, as far as I know*, from the relatively recent phenomenon of French grand cuisine.
*And I dare languagehat to show up here and dispute it!
posted by villanelles at dawn at 4:58 PM on November 4, 2011
I mean I definitely don't dispute that as a more broad explanation of French words in English vocabulary, but the words we're talking about here, aioli and mirepoix and crudite, are much more recent additions to English and come to us, as far as I know*, from the relatively recent phenomenon of French grand cuisine.
*And I dare languagehat to show up here and dispute it!
posted by villanelles at dawn at 4:58 PM on November 4, 2011
The eridute crudité was crammed with cordite.
Hence the ensuing effluvial eructations.
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:04 PM on November 4, 2011
Hence the ensuing effluvial eructations.
posted by Devils Rancher at 5:04 PM on November 4, 2011
Normally I'd be terrified to make any sort of linguistic argument around the major league language mavens of MeFi, but I've been waiting all afternoon to start a comment, "Ere you indict an erudite Mefite..."
posted by villanelles at dawn at 5:05 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by villanelles at dawn at 5:05 PM on November 4, 2011
I love that the conversation here is erudite, but I love even more how we go off on weird tangents.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 5:08 PM on November 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 5:08 PM on November 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
Oh sure, those specific words are quite modern, there's no doubt, but the tradition of borrowing French words is a thousand years old. Even though English does borrow words from other languages, it's unexceptional and unquestioned that French words are introduced, and indeed expected that English words aren't used in some cases. Crudités is written and spoken without comment, as thought it's normal. Veggie dips (or something similar) would be laughed out of any social circle that thought itself sophisticated. It's a very insiduous part of our linguistic culture.
posted by Jehan at 5:09 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by Jehan at 5:09 PM on November 4, 2011
Dammit I just had to tell google that I really did mean "insiduous." I trusted you!
posted by villanelles at dawn at 5:12 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by villanelles at dawn at 5:12 PM on November 4, 2011
> Who is Liza Daly?
Liza Daly is a technologist, consultant, coder, and a proponent of the ePub standards. I probably got some of that wrong, but their validator pretty much taught me the ePub standard. She's cool.
posted by cjorgensen at 5:20 PM on November 4, 2011
Liza Daly is a technologist, consultant, coder, and a proponent of the ePub standards. I probably got some of that wrong, but their validator pretty much taught me the ePub standard. She's cool.
posted by cjorgensen at 5:20 PM on November 4, 2011
Epitome. Facade. Fete.
These words have been viciously mispronounced by yours truly, to great embarrassment.
posted by maxwelton at 5:29 PM on November 4, 2011
These words have been viciously mispronounced by yours truly, to great embarrassment.
posted by maxwelton at 5:29 PM on November 4, 2011
Ye olde 'fete worse than death'. I keep the old ones on a shelf out back.
posted by Abiezer at 5:35 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by Abiezer at 5:35 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
It wasn't until I read this thread that I realized that I have never heard the word "bergamot" said aloud.
(Really? It's "berg-uh-mawt"? For real? Damn. Stupid voice in my head, pronouncing everything wrong.)
At least the voice in your head was not all helping you out by having you ask for the berj-ah-moe soap, resulting in the young grocery lady somewhat snidely say 'Yes, the berg-uh-mawt soap is in aisle four, next to the other soaps, you ignorant toad.' The last italicized bit was implied by her tone.
Bergamot is also the thing that makes Earl Grey tea so nasty. Now you know!
posted by winna at 6:48 PM on November 4, 2011
(Really? It's "berg-uh-mawt"? For real? Damn. Stupid voice in my head, pronouncing everything wrong.)
At least the voice in your head was not all helping you out by having you ask for the berj-ah-moe soap, resulting in the young grocery lady somewhat snidely say 'Yes, the berg-uh-mawt soap is in aisle four, next to the other soaps, you ignorant toad.' The last italicized bit was implied by her tone.
Bergamot is also the thing that makes Earl Grey tea so nasty. Now you know!
posted by winna at 6:48 PM on November 4, 2011
In Xanadu did Kublai Kan
A stately crudité decree
That Ms. Olivia Newton-John
would soon sing "Magic" just for me.
posted by mintcake! at 6:57 PM on November 4, 2011
A stately crudité decree
That Ms. Olivia Newton-John
would soon sing "Magic" just for me.
posted by mintcake! at 6:57 PM on November 4, 2011
Bergamot is also the thing that makes Earl Grey tea so nasty. Now you know!
I know the moderation in metatalk is extremely light but you really shouldn't abuse that freedom.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 6:59 PM on November 4, 2011 [15 favorites]
I know the moderation in metatalk is extremely light but you really shouldn't abuse that freedom.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 6:59 PM on November 4, 2011 [15 favorites]
In Xanadu did Kublai Kan
A stately crudité decree
That Ms. Olivia Newton-John
would soon sing "Magic" just for me.
where ranch the sacred dressing ran
through gullets measureless to man
down to a septic sea.
posted by jenkinsEar at 7:10 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
A stately crudité decree
That Ms. Olivia Newton-John
would soon sing "Magic" just for me.
where ranch the sacred dressing ran
through gullets measureless to man
down to a septic sea.
posted by jenkinsEar at 7:10 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
mighty goddesss Aphrodite
addressed Olympus so erudite
while deus Zeus dressed as a goose
snuck out for a lay. BAM! crudité.
posted by eddydamascene at 7:53 PM on November 4, 2011
addressed Olympus so erudite
while deus Zeus dressed as a goose
snuck out for a lay. BAM! crudité.
posted by eddydamascene at 7:53 PM on November 4, 2011
I hate Frankie Goes to Hollywood.
Oh relax.
posted by The Whelk at 7:54 PM on November 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
Oh relax.
posted by The Whelk at 7:54 PM on November 4, 2011 [3 favorites]
I stand firm in my belief that Earl Grey is nasty. Drink Assam if you want have black tea. The resultant jittering all about the room if you brew it too strong is part of the experience!
posted by winna at 7:56 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by winna at 7:56 PM on November 4, 2011
No.
*cranks up Stay Hungry. sits in parking lot drinking beer and shooting off fireworks*
posted by jonmc at 7:56 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
*cranks up Stay Hungry. sits in parking lot drinking beer and shooting off fireworks*
posted by jonmc at 7:56 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
Metafilter: just a fancy way of saying "smarty pants talk"
posted by unSane at 7:59 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by unSane at 7:59 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
I would go see Jonmc Parking Lot in a heartbeat.
posted by mintcake! at 8:06 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by mintcake! at 8:06 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Heh. I take the subway, so that would be kind of futile.
(me and my co-workers recently tried to imagine what an Indie Rock Parking Lot would be like before realizing it would be to boring to bear watching)
posted by jonmc at 8:10 PM on November 4, 2011
(me and my co-workers recently tried to imagine what an Indie Rock Parking Lot would be like before realizing it would be to boring to bear watching)
posted by jonmc at 8:10 PM on November 4, 2011
Sorry, cortex, but I think the answer is a bit more intellectual-history- and literary-history-based and a lot less cutesy. ;)
posted by nonmerci at 8:26 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by nonmerci at 8:26 PM on November 4, 2011
Which is, of course, to say nothing of those Norman fellows.
posted by nonmerci at 8:26 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by nonmerci at 8:26 PM on November 4, 2011
She's my sister. What of it?
posted by eamondaly at 8:38 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by eamondaly at 8:38 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Not to be the French-speaking language nerd, but come on, guys. First off, the G in bergamot is hard, so it's definitely not pronounced as 'berjjj-ah' but is most assuredly 'berg' as in 'iceberg lettuce.' This is due to rules of French pronunciation and that silly G.
Also, the whole 'why so much French?' is due to, I would hazard, a very strong and at times inseparable intellectual tradition between the French and English which has resulted in an enormous amount of cross-contamination. For example, I am writing my Master's thesis on 17th century French fairy tales, and I am amazed at how incredibly celebrated a now-obscure female French author was in England during the 1690s through ~1770s. I also get the sense that, at least in this very narrow period I am working on (the late 17th century), this intellectual 'osmosis' (I'm sorry, I couldn't think of an apter description) more heavily influenced the English. Whereas the English papers I'm looking at go out of their way to advertise French works *heavily*, I've not noticed the same trend affecting even to a minor degree similar French periodicals.
Of course, this is a very specific example, but I find it fascinating nonetheless, particularly when one considers that the period I am working on is one in which the Académie française was founded and is more or less just prior to the Enlightenment (great idea-swapping movement that was).
posted by nonmerci at 8:44 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
Also, the whole 'why so much French?' is due to, I would hazard, a very strong and at times inseparable intellectual tradition between the French and English which has resulted in an enormous amount of cross-contamination. For example, I am writing my Master's thesis on 17th century French fairy tales, and I am amazed at how incredibly celebrated a now-obscure female French author was in England during the 1690s through ~1770s. I also get the sense that, at least in this very narrow period I am working on (the late 17th century), this intellectual 'osmosis' (I'm sorry, I couldn't think of an apter description) more heavily influenced the English. Whereas the English papers I'm looking at go out of their way to advertise French works *heavily*, I've not noticed the same trend affecting even to a minor degree similar French periodicals.
Of course, this is a very specific example, but I find it fascinating nonetheless, particularly when one considers that the period I am working on is one in which the Académie française was founded and is more or less just prior to the Enlightenment (great idea-swapping movement that was).
posted by nonmerci at 8:44 PM on November 4, 2011 [1 favorite]
(Upon further investigation, bergamot itself derives from Turkish!)
posted by nonmerci at 8:48 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
posted by nonmerci at 8:48 PM on November 4, 2011 [2 favorites]
Ye olde 'fete worse than death'. I keep the old ones on a shelf out back.
A Fête Worse than Death [WARNING: TV Tropes]
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:54 PM on November 4, 2011
A Fête Worse than Death [WARNING: TV Tropes]
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 8:54 PM on November 4, 2011
bergamot itself derives from Turkish!
And alcohol, counterintuitively, from Arabic.
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:29 PM on November 4, 2011
And alcohol, counterintuitively, from Arabic.
posted by UbuRoivas at 9:29 PM on November 4, 2011
You all haven't been erudite for years. You fucking apple cart riders. You yuns. You yo yo. You ying ling. You bunch of ding a lings, onion rings, walrus wings, pirate flings, mamoth zings. Fring a bring a ding?
posted by a shrill fucking shitstripe at 9:31 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by a shrill fucking shitstripe at 9:31 PM on November 4, 2011
I am listening to Harry Potter and the Chamber of Secrets in German. The Germans clearly care about pronouncing French loan words properly (for example, they pronounce "bon bon" like it's actually a French word and not a sound a muppet makes). But I think they have applied this principle a bit too enthusiastically, because they have also decided that the proper pronunciation of Voldemort is: Voldemor. That's right. No T. I'm having trouble taking a French Voldemort seriously.
posted by colfax at 11:14 PM on November 4, 2011
posted by colfax at 11:14 PM on November 4, 2011
*Nominates ASF shitstripe for the official position of "MeFi's-Own Annie Wilkes."*
posted by taz (staff) at 12:59 AM on November 5, 2011
posted by taz (staff) at 12:59 AM on November 5, 2011
Blurb.
posted by flabdablet at 3:34 AM on November 5, 2011
posted by flabdablet at 3:34 AM on November 5, 2011
Last night, I left out a platter of carrots, celery and ranch dip. Are they safe to eat?
posted by kinetic at 5:58 AM on November 5, 2011
posted by kinetic at 5:58 AM on November 5, 2011
I only just realised that when I read 'dialogue' I think of two people talking and when I read 'dialog' I think of the boxes that pop up when your computer wants to ask you something. Same way 'colour' makes me think of colours and 'color' makes me think of RGB values or the hex notation in CSS.
Bloody Americans, wronging up my brain.
Also, I think that "crudité", along with "mirepoix" and "aioli" are all winners of the Rather Pretentiously Adopted Name For Really Simple Food award.
I say 'mirepoix' when making French food, 'soffritto' when cooking Italian food and 'aromatics' when rustling up something British. Not out loud, obviously.
posted by jack_mo at 6:34 AM on November 5, 2011
Bloody Americans, wronging up my brain.
Also, I think that "crudité", along with "mirepoix" and "aioli" are all winners of the Rather Pretentiously Adopted Name For Really Simple Food award.
I say 'mirepoix' when making French food, 'soffritto' when cooking Italian food and 'aromatics' when rustling up something British. Not out loud, obviously.
posted by jack_mo at 6:34 AM on November 5, 2011
Wait, so you are telling me that I have been clumsy in my pronunciation of maladroit all this time?
posted by thebrokedown at 6:37 AM on November 5, 2011
posted by thebrokedown at 6:37 AM on November 5, 2011
I bet maladroit is one of the most mispronounced words among American geeky types because of first encountering it in Ender's Game and making up their own pronunciation. If any of you do pronounce it like it's French then shine on you crazy diamond.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 9:08 AM on November 5, 2011
posted by villanelles at dawn at 9:08 AM on November 5, 2011
I was always misled by misled. My way's more fun.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 9:30 AM on November 5, 2011
posted by villanelles at dawn at 9:30 AM on November 5, 2011
Well we don't call the green mountain state Verremon now do we?
( but we should! )
posted by The Whelk at 9:42 AM on November 5, 2011
( but we should! )
posted by The Whelk at 9:42 AM on November 5, 2011
We should call it Green Mountain, the way I call the neighborhood across the street Foot Mountain.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 9:48 AM on November 5, 2011
posted by villanelles at dawn at 9:48 AM on November 5, 2011
it took many men a long time to build that mountain of feet and by god you're going to use the right word for ir.
posted by The Whelk at 9:50 AM on November 5, 2011
posted by The Whelk at 9:50 AM on November 5, 2011
They should be happy that's all I call them. They're the Blue Angels of white flight.
posted by villanelles at dawn at 10:01 AM on November 5, 2011
posted by villanelles at dawn at 10:01 AM on November 5, 2011
If we are crudites, we are surely Choice Crudites. A well-tended Google Reader feed is Common Crudites. Reddit is Flour.
posted by NoraReed at 2:58 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
posted by NoraReed at 2:58 PM on November 5, 2011 [1 favorite]
If you like figuring out odd French pronunciation, find the nearest British passport and attempt to read it. You're likely to be wrong.
posted by Jehan at 3:29 PM on November 5, 2011
posted by Jehan at 3:29 PM on November 5, 2011
Erudite, huh? I dunno, I never manage to get the mixture in the right proportions, so it never sets properly and the thing I'm trying to fix, in addition to still being broken, is now sticky and smells funny.
No, wait, that was Araldite.
posted by Grangousier at 6:17 PM on November 5, 2011
No, wait, that was Araldite.
posted by Grangousier at 6:17 PM on November 5, 2011
"Ding-a-ling" should be hyphenated.
Not during NaNoWriMo, asshole.
posted by wayland at 1:29 AM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
Not during NaNoWriMo, asshole.
posted by wayland at 1:29 AM on November 6, 2011 [1 favorite]
Well we don't call the green mountain state Verremon now do we?
Let's not talk about the pronunciation of that state's fine capital. I'm sure every single French speaker pre-emptively rolls in his/her grave when hearing that one.
posted by sonika at 3:37 AM on November 6, 2011
Let's not talk about the pronunciation of that state's fine capital. I'm sure every single French speaker pre-emptively rolls in his/her grave when hearing that one.
posted by sonika at 3:37 AM on November 6, 2011
> In 2011, nearly every online form of self-expression enables commentary. Whether it is the erudite dialog of MetaFilter,
> dubious comments on YouTube, or a simple binary Facebook “like,” children today are growing up with media that is
> almost universally participatory.
...one reason I like Arts and Letters Daily so much.
posted by jfuller at 6:48 AM on November 6, 2011
> dubious comments on YouTube, or a simple binary Facebook “like,” children today are growing up with media that is
> almost universally participatory.
...one reason I like Arts and Letters Daily so much.
posted by jfuller at 6:48 AM on November 6, 2011
The New Madrid Fault and Verdi, NV, tend to trip people up. And we Californians are hella lazy-tongued about the Spanish-derived names around here (luss GAD-uss, san ruh-FELL, luss AN-juh-less etc.).
villanelles at dawn — as a child, my father was misled by both "misled" and "molested".
posted by Lexica at 9:52 AM on November 6, 2011
villanelles at dawn — as a child, my father was misled by both "misled" and "molested".
posted by Lexica at 9:52 AM on November 6, 2011
I believe I recall hearing Truman Capote say that he'd read a word as "grow tes cue" for years before encountering the spoken word "grow tesk."
posted by flabdablet at 10:08 AM on November 6, 2011
posted by flabdablet at 10:08 AM on November 6, 2011
heh I was a big reader as a kid (still am) and there were a lot of words that I was familiar with the meanings, but had never heard aloud. Conscience in my head was con-science, and it was a long time before I finally clicked that the word I was hearing and the way I pronounced it in my head were the same word.
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 10:26 PM on November 6, 2011
posted by 5_13_23_42_69_666 at 10:26 PM on November 6, 2011
heh I was a big reader as a kid (still am) and there were a lot of words that I was familiar with the meanings, but had never heard aloud.
I had the same problem! Nothing was as embarrassing as that moment in history class where I pronounced "Appommatox" to rhyme with "SmallPox"
posted by jenkinsEar at 10:42 AM on November 7, 2011
I had the same problem! Nothing was as embarrassing as that moment in history class where I pronounced "Appommatox" to rhyme with "SmallPox"
posted by jenkinsEar at 10:42 AM on November 7, 2011
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posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:16 PM on November 4, 2011 [6 favorites]