deletions

January 10, 2012 9:42 PM

I don't understand why this question was deleted.

The explanation given is:

This post was deleted for the following reason: Ask Metafilter has no answers about All Women/Men/Other; please contact us if you need help formulating a question we can help you with. -- taz

This seems like a cop-out. The OP had a number of cogent, reasoned responses to his (vaguely worded) question.

posted by dfriedman to Etiquette/Policy at 9:42 PM (87 comments total)

You can give a cogent, reasoned response to anything (or nothing). That doesn't make it an acceptable question.
posted by J. Wilson at 9:52 PM on January 10 [2 favorites]

Previously.
posted by no regrets, coyote at 9:59 PM on January 10

The question as formulated was chatfilter, a request for commiseration.
posted by Chocolate Pickle at 10:00 PM on January 10 [1 favorite]

The OP can ask a question about dealing with social anxiety in regards to women, or ask how to maximize his chances of meeting women who would be interested in him, or any number of questions that may be useful to him, but asking if women care about personality isn't an answerable question beyond "people are different."
posted by taz (staff) at 10:01 PM on January 10 [6 favorites]

The OP had a number of cogent, reasoned responses to his (vaguely worded) question.

The actual question as posted was vague and chatty. When we remove questions, its pretty much on their merits, not that of the answers they've gotten. If the poster wants to try and hone it into something more concrete and less unrealistically reductive of entire demographics into some kind of monolith, they can give it a shot next week and all is well.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:02 PM on January 10 [3 favorites]

Well, I will defer to you guys.
posted by dfriedman at 10:12 PM on January 10

"The actual question as posted was vague and chatty."

I get that, and I understand the deletion, though I still think I agree that it sucks. The explicitly stated question was obviously not acceptable, but the asker was getting excellent answers to the many implied questions that taz just summed up here. I'd like to think that it would be okay that askers don't always no the best way to ask for what they are looking for, at least so long as we can figure it out.
posted by Blasdelb at 10:13 PM on January 10 [1 favorite]

Sure, and we try to be a little flexible and generous when we're able and think it'll be worth the extra headache, but problematic-as-presented questions are gonna get deleted much of the time. Just never deleting anything theoretically decipherable isn't how it has worked or will work.

The asker can, again, refine and try again next week. The stakes here are very low in that respect.
posted by cortex (staff) at 10:20 PM on January 10 [1 favorite]

To the original Asker: the answer to your question is "no". Women care more about looks than personality.
posted by planet at 10:20 PM on January 10 [4 favorites]

.... and that's why those types of questions don't work well around here.
posted by no regrets, coyote at 10:25 PM on January 10 [6 favorites]

To the original Asker: My experience and observing the world we live in suggests that women are much more forgiving of looks than men are. The importance of being yourself can not be overstated. I, currently overweight, met my last girlfriend at an industry event we were both volunteering at. If you saw us together, you would think, "She is attractive and slim and he is fat". That's just the way it is.

I had no interest in dating at that time. I was really excited to be volunteering at the event and focused on answering questions and sharing my knowledge. My passion for the subject matter was evident and we wound up having a number of interesting conversations over the course of a few days.

She made it clear she was interested in me, and even though I was surprised, I hid it and pursued her.

So, be yourself, pursue the things you are interested in and be open to all possibilities.
posted by mlis at 10:54 PM on January 10 [4 favorites]

To the original asker: a good rephrase might be "Are there women who care more about personality than looks, and if so what sort of personality traits do they look for?"

I think that's what you're looking for. May still be too broad though.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:13 PM on January 10

Still too broad (all women aren't going to be interested in the same personality traits), and also "chatfilter," because there isn't a problem to be solved. A better way to get useful responses is to ask how to meet women who might be be interested in him, given X, Y and Z, or to ask how to transfer his ability to make women friends online to his real life situation, for example.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:23 PM on January 10 [1 favorite]

Could I just request, as one MeFite to the community, that we not use Metatalk as a place to resurrect deleted threads as zombies (i.e. provide answers to deleted questions)? Let the dead rest.
posted by Scientist at 11:26 PM on January 10 [35 favorites]

taz put the contact form link up for the OP of the question to get more feedback and help crafting a question more likely to provide better results. WWTTD Metas often seem to be an excuse for venting.
posted by arcticseal at 11:31 PM on January 10

Yeah, agreed, Scientist. This is the place to discuss why certain things are deleted, clarify the guidelines generally, or talk about how to create more useful posts/answers, but not really a proxy space for answering the deleted questions.
posted by taz (staff) at 12:10 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

I think it was nice to refer to the contact form with an offer to help flesh out the question. But it does seem like you guys can flesh out the question better because of the experience of seeing the same question asked over and over. The only point in asking would be commiseration, same as all the other times asked.
posted by BurnChao at 1:19 AM on January 11

I think it's a valid question; it comes across as vague because the guy doesn't know any women and so he doesn't know what he doesn't know.

Not a bad deletion but not a good one, either.
posted by the young rope-rider at 3:16 AM on January 11 [6 favorites]

Given a previous question by this asker, I think it was a genuine enquiry and not a 'men are like this and women are like this' sort of thread. I have known a few men who see women as very definitely Other, and cannot comprehend that they are real people that watch the news, eat sandwiches, clean their teeth in the morning and poo just like men do. If that thread had made one more person avoid the Nice Guy trap and learn how to treat women like regular people rather than shallow creatures that withhold sex and/or precious china dolls to be worshipped, then it should have stayed.
posted by mippy at 3:24 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

AskMe questions need to either be answerable in some definite, specific way or serve some practical purpose. If you ask, "Why is the sky blue?" that is a question that has a definite and specific answer, even if you won't put the information to any practical use. If you ask, "How can I make a better impression to women on first dates?" that has a practical purpose, even though you may get a range of very anecdotal and varying answers. Asking, "Do women care about personality?" is an open-ended question that is not at all likely to achieve any practical purpose and is just going to solicit speculative and purely opinionated answers, AKA chatfilter. To make matters worse, it's more than a little mysogynist in tone and is likely to rile some people.
posted by orange swan at 5:32 AM on January 11 [4 favorites]

Dames, huh?

P.S. I see what you did there, taz.
posted by Eideteker at 5:40 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]

The actual question as posted was vague and chatty. When we remove questions, its pretty much on their merits, not that of the answers they've gotten. If the poster wants to try and hone it into something more concrete and less unrealistically reductive of entire demographics into some kind of monolith, they can give it a shot next week and all is well.

And eventually they will manage to ask a question that gets the same answers they already got.
posted by smackfu at 5:50 AM on January 11

Given a previous question by this asker, I think it was a genuine enquiry

yeah I have no doubt hat it was a genuine inquiry, we just need something more to go on so that answers aren't all basically "yes" or "no" or "people are different" Basically I think the OP has a real question but as phrased we don't really know what it is and questions that lead to "All X are like Y AMIRITE" tend to not go so well. With something that isn't time-sensitive, a chance to revise and repost seems like a much better approach than just having a question foundering in barely-chatfilter territory.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:52 AM on January 11

Not a bad deletion but not a good one, either.

I agree. It was this close to being a good (meaning answerable) question -- in my ideal world it would have been possible to cut it, clarify by email, and repost it a couple of hours later. As written it's pure chatfilter, but rewording it to be about him and his situation would be pretty straightforward.

To the original Asker: the answer to your question is "no". Women care more about looks than personality.

I only ever hear this said by people with bitter and unhappy personalities, which I am convinced are much larger barriers to getting it on that their looks. Looking like a model might bring a woman from across the room, but having the personality of a turd shows up the minute you open your mouth.
posted by Forktine at 5:54 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

I'm really glad the question got deleted. Otherwise it would've been really difficult for me not to go in guns a-blazin' about how if I hear one more idiot talk about women as a monolithic entity that can be manipulated as soon as you figure out factors x, y, and z I'm going to hurt someone real bad. Which would've been deleted, and then I would've felt bad for being a bad AskMe denizen.

But you know, I've always had issues with impulse control.
posted by Phire at 6:04 AM on January 11 [14 favorites]

I would have done exactly the same. But then, when I was single, I would combat occasional thoughts of 'maybe it's because I'm ugly/charmless' by putting on the Jeremy Kyle show. (This works equally well with Jerry Springer.) Watching a number of women fight over possession of a shambling, rat-like youth reassured me that even the ugliest and most charmless still gets laid by somebody.
posted by mippy at 6:23 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]

To the original asker: planet is wrong.
posted by EmpressCallipygos at 6:43 AM on January 11

To the original asker: planet is wrong.

Only YOU can end the cycle.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:02 AM on January 11

Yes, this is not a thread for answering a deleted question by proxy, please don't make it into one. Thanks.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:05 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

Otherwise it would've been really difficult for me not to go in guns a-blazin' about how if I hear one more idiot talk about women as a monolithic entity that can be manipulated as soon as you figure out factors x, y, and z I'm going to hurt someone real bad.

God, talk about repressed anger. You women are all the same...
posted by Brockles at 7:16 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]

Besides, I'm reliably informed that girls don't like boys, girls like cars and money.

(I always wondered what sort of advice Good Charlotte were getting, there. Were they actually aiming for the Furious Nice Guy demographic? Did they feel that there was a gap in the market for a band which was prepared to be overtly, on-the-nose misogynistic, for people who felt that rock music was generally too implicit about its objectification of women? Did trash-canned follow-up ideas include "I bet it you stopped going out with guys you like and are attracted to and paid attention to me, you'd really like me" and "The voices tell me you are a witch"? Inquiring minds...)
posted by running order squabble fest at 7:37 AM on January 11

In my opinion, women don't like looks or personality. In fact, all they seem to like is using static electric charges to adhere pollen to their abdomen and living in constructed nests.

No, wait that's bees. I'm thinking of bees.
posted by griphus at 7:43 AM on January 11 [52 favorites]

No, wait that's bees. I'm thinking of bees.

She's a GD bee?

Angle bracket slash Communityreference close angle bracket.
posted by running order squabble fest at 7:51 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]

Well, I will defer to you guys.
posted by dfriedman at 6:12 AM on January 11

Wait... there's a choice?!
posted by Decani at 7:55 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]

Wait... there's a choice?!

Yes. I can either accept their reasoning or else resort to the typical Metafilter tactic of bitching about the cruelty and injustice of the world. I choose the former, it being more efficient and rational.
posted by dfriedman at 7:58 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]

Looking like a model might bring a woman from across the room, but having the personality of a turd shows up the minute you open your mouth.

This summer, I was at a wedding where a model-esque guy was there with his equally hot girlfriend; I couldn't help but notice that every time he went to introduce her to someone new, he would grab her butt with one hand and squeeze it, a sort of territory marking behavior that I wasn't certain either of them was consciously aware of.
posted by nomisxid at 8:10 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]

Dames, huh?

Dames are like mustard. They taste great on a sandwich. But when you're not eating a sandwich, they just sit there in your refridgerator. On a shelf. In a jar. Labelled mustard.
posted by yellowbinder at 8:16 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

Now I'm looking at the handle "yellowbinder" in a whole new way.
posted by taz (staff) at 8:18 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]

Ooh yay! *crosses "eponysterical" off MeFi bingo card*
posted by yellowbinder at 8:20 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]

...or else resort to the typical Metafilter tactic of bitching about the cruelty and injustice of the world.

I'm sorry, I understand this is MetaTalk and all, but I will not have you refer to our time-honored cultural traditions as "tactics." There is years of glorious history behind our bitching and you would do well to read up on it.
posted by griphus at 8:23 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]

I couldn't help but notice that every time he went to introduce her to someone new, he would grab her butt with one hand and squeeze it...

From staring at her butt or his hands the whole time?
posted by Brockles at 8:30 AM on January 11

in my ideal world it would have been possible to cut it, clarify by email, and repost it a couple of hours later. As written it's pure chatfilter, but rewording it to be about him and his situation would be pretty straightforward.

The real world can even be the ideal world if the asker gets back to us very promptly and has a better draft in mind. We don't do that a ton but it's totally a possible route. It has to happen fast though, because a question wanders down the page pretty fast, so mostly the realistic outcome is asking the redrafted version next week. For the vast majority of questions that have chattiness issues, the question is not time sensitive and so that's not anything other than a speedbump.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:35 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

I think it can be confusing with these gender questions what gets deleted and what doesn't. I'm OK with this deletion because it did seem like an "amirite" type question and those do get deleted, but perhaps with some restructuring OP can come and get some better answers. It would probably be helpful if he didn't address women of AskMe as a mass in order to get those answers though.

I find a lot of the 'hey all AskMe ladies' or 'hey all AskMe guys' questions really annoying, but that's also because I've learned a lot from this community about how not all men do x and all women do y.

For example, almost six years ago I asked this now mortifying question that I would never ask today.

Sometimes it's good to remind myself that people (even me!) still need the reminder that women and men are not some monolithic group that thinks and acts alike, because we keep getting the message that women are from mars and women are from venus and we're all supposed to be part of this inscrutable gender war and on and on.
posted by sweetkid at 8:57 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]

women are from mars and women are from venus

Men are from Mars and women are from Venus.
posted by sweetkid at 9:00 AM on January 11

Die grosse Frage, die nie beantwortet worden ist und die ich trotz dreißig Jahre langem Forschen in der weiblichen Seele nie habe beantworten können, ist die: Was will das Weib?

[deleted as pseudoscience, please don't do this -- the21stcentury]
posted by spitbull at 9:01 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

Dude, don't call broads 'dames.'
posted by shakespeherian at 9:03 AM on January 11

Amendment: Don't call chicks 'broads.'
posted by shakespeherian at 9:03 AM on January 11

Amendment: Don't call females 'chicks.'

(Don't even get me started on 'females'....)
posted by Phire at 9:17 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

Girls, girls, please!
posted by shakespeherian at 9:21 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]

Men are from Mars and women are from Venus.

I'm from around the way. You know Farbauti.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:30 AM on January 11

You can't fight in here, this is the powder room.
posted by griphus at 9:52 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]

but not really a proxy space for answering the deleted questions.

This is an inevitable consequence of bad deletions.
posted by spaltavian at 9:54 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]

That was a fucked-up question coming from a fucked-up personality, which is why I think it would have really good to let it stand and allow people to gently correct his Wrong Assumptions while answering his completely-answerable question. It was a gross question, but it was a question, and I think dude could have benefited from it being answered.

Ask Metafilter has no answers about All Women/Men/Other

That itself is basically the root of a good answer to the question, not a good reason for deletion.
posted by Greg Nog at 10:01 AM on January 11 [4 favorites]

but not really a proxy space for answering the deleted questions.

This is an inevitable consequence of bad deletions.

It's an inevitable consequence of people talking about whatever topic arises regardless of its fitness for AskMe.
posted by shakespeherian at 10:03 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]

not use Metatalk as a place to resurrect deleted threads as zombies

Too bad. I was really wanting to ask the hivemind how I could go about attracting some hot zombie babes.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:07 AM on January 11

Zombie babes don't care about your looks. They're after someone with brains.
posted by shakespeherian at 10:11 AM on January 11 [21 favorites]

Too bad. I was really wanting to ask the hivemind how I could go about attracting some hot zombie babes.

Just be yourself.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:17 AM on January 11

It's Raining Florence Henderson: " Too bad. I was really wanting to ask the hivemind how I could go about attracting some hot zombie babes."

BRAAAAAAAAIIIIIIINSSSSS,
posted by zarq at 10:17 AM on January 11

Too bad. I was really wanting to ask the hivemind how I could go about attracting some hot zombie babes.

They're out there.

You're being too picky.

When you least expect it, it'll happen.

Stop LOOKING for hot zombie babes, and they will find you.

Have you tried online?
posted by sweetkid at 10:27 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]

a/z/l?
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:46 AM on January 11

Devils Rancher: "a/z/l?"

a/b/l?
posted by zarq at 10:50 AM on January 11

b/l/z/b/b
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 10:51 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]

Forktine: in my ideal world it would have been possible to cut it, clarify by email, and repost it a couple of hours later.

I agree with this. I don't really see the value of making the OP wait another week to ask the question, when it was obviously well-intentioned, not an attempt to game the system or troll the site.
posted by misha at 11:00 AM on January 11

b/l/z/b/b

M/p/h/s/t/p/h/l/s?
posted by Devils Rancher at 11:07 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]

l/u/c/4
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:08 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]

I/d/o/n/t/k/n/o/w/w/h/a/t/a/n/y/o/f/t/h/e/s/e/j/o/k/e/s/a/r/e
posted by shakespeherian at 11:12 AM on January 11

As we've mentioned before, we can edit and reinstate if the OP gets back to us right away, but waiting a couple of hours means that many other questions will have been posted after it, and so it will be appear way down the page. We can't make it jump to the top by editing and undeleting, and the once-a-week limit is hardwired.
posted by taz (staff) at 11:14 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]

shakespeherian: "I/d/o/n/t/k/n/o/w/w/h/a/t/a/n/y/o/f/t/h/e/s/e/j/o/k/e/s/a/r/e"

Beelzebub. Mephistopheles. Lucifer.....
posted by zarq at 11:16 AM on January 11

Was will das Weib?

I was talking to a friend about her emotional development and what she wanted. She had to think a while, but she summed it up thus: "Saft".

I knew her mother had spoken German but she herself knew very little, so using the word for "juice" was an interesting choice.

I'm comfortable with metaphor so I tried to work with it.

"Is it something from your childhood? Some period when you needed to feel nurtured but felt left dry?" She thought. "No, that's not it."

"A pun perhaps? You're looking for more energy?". She gave me a long look, almost questioning, and said "I don't think so..."

"Juice could also be unfermented alcohol. Maybe to do with the alcoholism in your family?" She again gave me a long look, and at last it dawned that she was wondering where the hell my questions were coming from.

She was quiet for a bit, then finally smiled: "Soft. I said soft."

Oh.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:20 AM on January 11 [1 favorite]

Zarq's desk just burst into flames.
posted by griphus at 11:20 AM on January 11 [2 favorites]

Now I'll trick him into saying 'Bloody Mary' in the mirror.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:35 AM on January 11 [3 favorites]

I tried that, unfortunately turns out my mirror is not a replicator.
posted by yellowbinder at 11:37 AM on January 11

Hermitosis already did that.
posted by griphus at 11:38 AM on January 11

Mirrors make shitty bartenders.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:38 AM on January 11

A proper bloody mary is not ordered from a bar. A proper bloody mary is made from whatever you can fumble into a glass when your eyes are crusted shut and you can't think through the pounding headache and it's like 2pm and the sun won't fucking shut up.
posted by shakespeherian at 11:49 AM on January 11 [4 favorites]

I wanted to ask the hivemind how to go about attracting some hot zombie bees.

I don't think this "Brain Pollen" I got from the Johnson Smith catalog is working.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:50 AM on January 11

As we've mentioned before, we can edit and reinstate if the OP gets back to us right away, but waiting a couple of hours means that many other questions will have been posted after it, and so it will be appear way down the page. We can't make it jump to the top by editing and undeleting, and the once-a-week limit is hardwired.

And just to drive this home, this is something I offer to most people who have a question that is deleted if it's in the "this is close but isn't working" category if I'm around for a while and can go back and forth with them.

However, I'm really clear that they have to get back to me quickly via the contact form or preferably IM and they have to do the rewrite themselves [i.e. I can tell them what is wrong with it but I won't write it for them] and the rewrite has to be workable/approvable. I'm sorry to say that almost every single time I've offered this, it's turned into a mess. Either someone gets back to me many hours or sometimes days later, or they MeMail me when I'm not around to read it [and ignoring the "don't use this for mod business" note] or they don't rewrite the question just saying "Hey go with whatever works" [necessitating more back and forth email and more time spent] or their rewrite is not that great and the question still attracts flags and winds up in MetaTalk anyhow which means more work for everyone and a sheepish explanation from me that we didn't delete a bad question because it was marginally better than the deleteworthy question but that the OP didn't really do a better rewrite but I felt bad and so bla bla bla.

Not a big deal, as these things go, but our feeling is that if it's not a time-sensitive question, we're going to do less back-end wrangling to get a deleteable question into askable shape. It's a fairly rare occurrence and so not something we feel like we need to build a new process for, but it's just not something the site is set up to do well with the way we're staffed and the way we interact with users most of the time. This is one of the times we fall back on "It's a big internet" and suggest other places that people might have some luck with that sort of question.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:43 PM on January 11 [1 favorite]

Men are from Mars and women are from Venus.

Both men and women emerge from women, in an undignified display of biology.
posted by planet at 5:39 PM on January 11

I don't think this "Brain Pollen" I got from the Johnson Smith catalog is working.

Try shuffling your feet on the carpet to work up a charge.
posted by arcticseal at 7:15 PM on January 11

That was a fucked-up question coming from a fucked-up personality, which is why I think it would have really good to let it stand and allow people to gently correct his Wrong Assumptions...

Lol. Nice gentleness.
posted by mreleganza at 4:53 AM on January 12 [3 favorites]

Sidhedevil: "I wanted to ask the hivemind how to go about attracting some hot zombie bees.

I don't think this "Brain Pollen" I got from the Johnson Smith catalog is working."

Maybe you should try some Royal Jelly?
posted by misha at 7:51 AM on January 12 [1 favorite]

Men are from KOI-961a and women are from KOI-961b.

Sure, you might say. They both uninhabitable.

Well why do you think we LEFT? Duh.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 10:51 AM on January 12

Or maybe "they're". It was a long time ago though. They didn't speak much English.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 11:02 AM on January 12

But nobody's from 134340 Pluto. Because 134340 Pluto isn't even a real planet, right?! Ha ha, plutoids are so lame.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 11:08 AM on January 12 [1 favorite]

Planets and plutoids are so yesterday. Exoplanets are where it's at now.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:04 PM on January 12

Lol. Nice gentleness.

I wasn't trying to be gentle here; I was under the impression that this thread was for discussing the deletion, not speaking to the asker.
posted by Greg Nog at 12:31 PM on January 12 [1 favorite]

Well why do you think we LEFT? Duh.

This is Ceti Alpha Five!
posted by Devils Rancher at 4:27 PM on January 12 [1 favorite]