New directive: we don't do "tl;dr" here anymore. March 14, 2012 4:04 AM Subscribe
New directive: we don't do "tl;dr" here anymore.
1) There is no need to summarize your long comment. If you feel your own comment requires a precis or abstract appended to it, then there is a larger problem with the way you are interacting with this site that needs to be addressed.
2) This site is text-based, if you are commenting that something else (link, or comment) was too long and you didn't read it, then you need to not be here, or not comment in that specific instance. Go find something that is of a length you are comfortable reading, and comment on that instead.
It isn't cute, it isn't funny, it's anti-intellectual and anti-reading. Stop doing it right now. Thank you in advance for your full compliance in this matter.
1) There is no need to summarize your long comment. If you feel your own comment requires a precis or abstract appended to it, then there is a larger problem with the way you are interacting with this site that needs to be addressed.
2) This site is text-based, if you are commenting that something else (link, or comment) was too long and you didn't read it, then you need to not be here, or not comment in that specific instance. Go find something that is of a length you are comfortable reading, and comment on that instead.
It isn't cute, it isn't funny, it's anti-intellectual and anti-reading. Stop doing it right now. Thank you in advance for your full compliance in this matter.
The temptation is incredible but impossible to justify, given there are only 2 points and I already read them.
posted by chavenet at 4:09 AM on March 14, 2012 [39 favorites]
posted by chavenet at 4:09 AM on March 14, 2012 [39 favorites]
jeez, can't you get worked about Joseph Kony or something
posted by criticalbill at 4:22 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by criticalbill at 4:22 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Meatbomb, you know you're not actually a mod, right?
posted by flatluigi at 4:22 AM on March 14, 2012 [112 favorites]
posted by flatluigi at 4:22 AM on March 14, 2012 [112 favorites]
worked up, fucking worked up
posted by criticalbill at 4:23 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by criticalbill at 4:23 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Can we still say "in short..." and "basically..." or are those anti-intellectual too?
Should we cease writing abstracts and précis for articles? Would you also like to see library indexing eliminated, since it discourages the reading of all the books to find what you need?
In summary: I don't see the need to eliminate it.
posted by anotherpanacea at 4:25 AM on March 14, 2012 [69 favorites]
Should we cease writing abstracts and précis for articles? Would you also like to see library indexing eliminated, since it discourages the reading of all the books to find what you need?
In summary: I don't see the need to eliminate it.
posted by anotherpanacea at 4:25 AM on March 14, 2012 [69 favorites]
It is helpful for AskMes where people ramble on and on. Forces them to think about their real question.
posted by k8t at 4:28 AM on March 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by k8t at 4:28 AM on March 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
M'Lord, the peasants are massing at the South gates, yelling for iPads and name brand peanut butter. Things appear grim, should I have the escape midget prepared?
I've gave the crowd Eideteker, in an attempt to satisfy their blood lust, but alas, they just gave him back. We shall never be free.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:32 AM on March 14, 2012 [31 favorites]
I've gave the crowd Eideteker, in an attempt to satisfy their blood lust, but alas, they just gave him back. We shall never be free.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:32 AM on March 14, 2012 [31 favorites]
I hate TL;DR everywhere, but especially in Ask Metafilter questions, where we are (rightfully) exhorted to read the entire question before answering, to cut down on the common cases of recommending movie D to someone who asks for movies like A, B, C, D, and E, or recommending therapy to someone who is already seeing a therapist. If you don't really mean "if you couldn't be bothered to read the whole thing," just say "in conclusion" or something. People are supposed to learn how to wrap things up with a summary without using TL;DR when they learn how to write essays in high school.
"Special snowflake details inside" makes me twitch but generally the symptoms subside shortly.
On the other hand, I don't mind Twitter or (gasp) the @user convention that most people here find an atrocity.
I also recognize that these things are pretty useless to fight.
posted by dfan at 4:39 AM on March 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
"Special snowflake details inside" makes me twitch but generally the symptoms subside shortly.
On the other hand, I don't mind Twitter or (gasp) the @user convention that most people here find an atrocity.
I also recognize that these things are pretty useless to fight.
posted by dfan at 4:39 AM on March 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
I find the summary useful. If everyone just posted the summary they would get attacked by people posting all sorts of objections, or misunderstanding what they are trying to say.
So you have a longer exposition where you clearly lay out your thoughts, provide anecdotes and examples and cover some of the nuances and objections.
This is how essays have always been written although traditionally the summary is in the first sentence, as it is here with my comment.
posted by vacapinta at 4:43 AM on March 14, 2012 [10 favorites]
So you have a longer exposition where you clearly lay out your thoughts, provide anecdotes and examples and cover some of the nuances and objections.
This is how essays have always been written although traditionally the summary is in the first sentence, as it is here with my comment.
posted by vacapinta at 4:43 AM on March 14, 2012 [10 favorites]
Yes M'lord, I'm aware of the grammatical error in the previous comment. Sorry M'lord, its a bad habit.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:44 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:44 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I love Meatbomb directives mostly because disobeying them is so delicious.
posted by unSane at 4:46 AM on March 14, 2012 [14 favorites]
posted by unSane at 4:46 AM on March 14, 2012 [14 favorites]
Have you filled out Form 27-b/6? That's the New Directive Formulation Permission Form.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:47 AM on March 14, 2012 [9 favorites]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:47 AM on March 14, 2012 [9 favorites]
Apologies again M'lord, I blame the mistakes on the affects of last knights wine.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:49 AM on March 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 4:49 AM on March 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
Well geez, someone's gotta to do it:
Meatbomb: "New directive: we don't do "tl;dr" here anymore. BLAH BLAH WORDS"
tl;dr
posted by Grither at 4:58 AM on March 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
Meatbomb: "New directive: we don't do "tl;dr" here anymore. BLAH BLAH WORDS"
tl;dr
posted by Grither at 4:58 AM on March 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
Can't you just nr the tl;dr?
Y'know what little bit of short hand gets my goat?
This.
I find it both lazy and I think the tone is somehow (and I'm not sure entirely how) dismissive and aggressive at the same time.
But I know other people love it and feel like it allows them to sum up their substantial agreement in some sort of way that makes them feel good about themselves and the world. So whadda y'gonna do?
posted by OmieWise at 5:02 AM on March 14, 2012 [11 favorites]
Y'know what little bit of short hand gets my goat?
This.
I find it both lazy and I think the tone is somehow (and I'm not sure entirely how) dismissive and aggressive at the same time.
But I know other people love it and feel like it allows them to sum up their substantial agreement in some sort of way that makes them feel good about themselves and the world. So whadda y'gonna do?
posted by OmieWise at 5:02 AM on March 14, 2012 [11 favorites]
... I blame the mistakes on the affects of last knights wine.
Mm, yes, the expression of their emotional state is crucial when they enter the press.
posted by likeso at 5:03 AM on March 14, 2012 [11 favorites]
Mm, yes, the expression of their emotional state is crucial when they enter the press.
posted by likeso at 5:03 AM on March 14, 2012 [11 favorites]
I find it both lazy and I think the tone is somehow (and I'm not sure entirely how) dismissive and aggressive at the same time.
This!
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:08 AM on March 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
This!
posted by Slap*Happy at 5:08 AM on March 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
I think the tone is somehow (and I'm not sure entirely how) dismissive and aggressive at the same time.
YSTLIABT
posted by unSane at 5:10 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
YSTLIABT
posted by unSane at 5:10 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I tend to ignore directives that don't come from a mod. This one is no exception.
tl;dr:no.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:20 AM on March 14, 2012 [13 favorites]
tl;dr:no.
posted by St. Alia of the Bunnies at 5:20 AM on March 14, 2012 [13 favorites]
I tend to ignore directives that don't come from a mod.
As a dues paying member with no arrears I have the authority to issue directives and demand full compliance just like everyone else here. Don't think about the authority of the messenger - rather, consider the righteousness of the message.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:26 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
As a dues paying member with no arrears I have the authority to issue directives and demand full compliance just like everyone else here. Don't think about the authority of the messenger - rather, consider the righteousness of the message.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:26 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
You lost me after "new directive." Can you summarize?
posted by crunchland at 5:27 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by crunchland at 5:27 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
St. Alia of the Bunnies: I tend to ignore directives that don't come from a mod.
God will forgive your typo.
posted by gman at 5:29 AM on March 14, 2012 [29 favorites]
God will forgive your typo.
posted by gman at 5:29 AM on March 14, 2012 [29 favorites]
more like DUHrective
posted by DU at 5:29 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by DU at 5:29 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
And you are unable to prevaricate.
posted by elizardbits at 5:33 AM on March 14, 2012 [14 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 5:33 AM on March 14, 2012 [14 favorites]
"Special snowflake details inside" makes me twitch but generally the symptoms subside shortly.
This irritates me so goddamn much that it is a sincere trial not to open the thread and deliberately give the worst possible advice. Or like, leave ascii pictures of cocks. Or both.
posted by elizardbits at 5:35 AM on March 14, 2012 [12 favorites]
This irritates me so goddamn much that it is a sincere trial not to open the thread and deliberately give the worst possible advice. Or like, leave ascii pictures of cocks. Or both.
posted by elizardbits at 5:35 AM on March 14, 2012 [12 favorites]
I do not like the words you use. Stop it.
posted by crunchland at 5:36 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by crunchland at 5:36 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
This.
A bomb, made of meat.
tl:dr - Meatbomb!
@all you needing hugs.
posted by From Bklyn at 5:41 AM on March 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
A bomb, made of meat.
tl:dr - Meatbomb!
@all you needing hugs.
posted by From Bklyn at 5:41 AM on March 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
Too authoritarian; will not obey.
Joking aside, I do think there's a role for summaries of longer comments, because often people don't read anything longer than a short paragraph. Whether or not the cutesy "tl;dr" is the right way to signal that is a different question, but good luck disembedding it from the site culture at this point.
posted by Forktine at 5:43 AM on March 14, 2012
Joking aside, I do think there's a role for summaries of longer comments, because often people don't read anything longer than a short paragraph. Whether or not the cutesy "tl;dr" is the right way to signal that is a different question, but good luck disembedding it from the site culture at this point.
posted by Forktine at 5:43 AM on March 14, 2012
M'lord, elizardbits is using capitals and punctuation! Is that not why of the signs of the End-of-Good-Times?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:44 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:44 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
I have the authority to issue directives and demand full compliance just like everyone else here.
This is like that episode where Frank Burns was temporarily in charge of the 4077th. (And Meatbomb's apparent lack of lips in his profile pic makes that similarity even more uncanny!)
I'll be in the Swamp if anyone needs me.
posted by octobersurprise at 5:47 AM on March 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
This is like that episode where Frank Burns was temporarily in charge of the 4077th. (And Meatbomb's apparent lack of lips in his profile pic makes that similarity even more uncanny!)
I'll be in the Swamp if anyone needs me.
posted by octobersurprise at 5:47 AM on March 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
I find utility in this practice on the green; less so on the blue. Not worth further consideration.
posted by mimo at 5:50 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mimo at 5:50 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Gosh, even if I agreed with the substance of this post, I would be put off by the tone of it. As I don't agree with the substance, the tone is completely unbearable. I bet you're nt going to stop just cause I don't like it, though: welcome to the world, dude.
posted by rosa at 5:50 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by rosa at 5:50 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
Don't worry, this new directive is only taking effect in a parallel universe - the one where Meatbomb is a mod. Notice that meatbomb has a beard.
posted by vacapinta at 5:53 AM on March 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by vacapinta at 5:53 AM on March 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
Sir, your inner circle is being surly and uncooperative. Shall I march them out to the courtyard and have them subjected to YouTube comments?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:54 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:54 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Abstracts at the start of journal articles are neither anti-intellectual, nor anti-reading. They're actually rather helpful for keeping the most salient points in your head. Similarly, at the end of the longer, more detail-heavy questions on the green, I find tl;dr summaries incredibly helpful when crafting an answer, because there's often quite a lot to keep in mind.
When the question is rather less than long though, I can't help but cringe.
I wouldn't worry Meatbomb. I'm sure someone will be along in the next 43 seconds with a greasemonkey script that nukes all tl;dr users from orbit.
posted by Juso No Thankyou at 5:57 AM on March 14, 2012
When the question is rather less than long though, I can't help but cringe.
I wouldn't worry Meatbomb. I'm sure someone will be along in the next 43 seconds with a greasemonkey script that nukes all tl;dr users from orbit.
posted by Juso No Thankyou at 5:57 AM on March 14, 2012
No, No, please throw Yahoo answers at them.
And a bucket of cocks.
posted by adamvasco at 5:57 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
And a bucket of cocks.
posted by adamvasco at 5:57 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I don't really mind the use of tl;dr here at Metafilter for the reasons already mentioned above.
However, I sometimes react poorly to it in a guilt-by-association way since users at another unnamed website that I infrequently frequent will use it after writing two or three short paragraphs, which is just stupid.
tl;dr Reddit users ruined tl;dr for me universally
posted by MCMikeNamara at 6:00 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
However, I sometimes react poorly to it in a guilt-by-association way since users at another unnamed website that I infrequently frequent will use it after writing two or three short paragraphs, which is just stupid.
tl;dr Reddit users ruined tl;dr for me universally
posted by MCMikeNamara at 6:00 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
octobersurprise: "And Meatbomb's apparent lack of lips in his profile pic"
Eww! Put on some clothes man, then maybe we'll listen to your ramblings!
posted by Grither at 6:01 AM on March 14, 2012
Eww! Put on some clothes man, then maybe we'll listen to your ramblings!
posted by Grither at 6:01 AM on March 14, 2012
(Just kidding, I like your naked pics, you sexy beast, you!)
posted by Grither at 6:03 AM on March 14, 2012
posted by Grither at 6:03 AM on March 14, 2012
Meatbomb, you know you're not actually a mod, right?
posted by flatluigi
Wait, I seriously thought he was.
posted by thinkpiece at 6:09 AM on March 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by flatluigi
Wait, I seriously thought he was.
posted by thinkpiece at 6:09 AM on March 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
~*inception*~
posted by elizardbits at 6:10 AM on March 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 6:10 AM on March 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
you know you're not actually a mod, right?
What? He's the viking of mods. Or is it the mod of vikings? Sometimes I get those confused.
posted by bonehead at 6:11 AM on March 14, 2012
What? He's the viking of mods. Or is it the mod of vikings? Sometimes I get those confused.
posted by bonehead at 6:11 AM on March 14, 2012
Have you filled out Form 27-b/6? That's the New Directive Formulation Permission Form.
Ah, and here I was attempting to file Form 27-b/6E the Nude Erective Formulation Permission Form. Thanks!
posted by Devils Rancher at 6:15 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Ah, and here I was attempting to file Form 27-b/6E the Nude Erective Formulation Permission Form. Thanks!
posted by Devils Rancher at 6:15 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I wrote a script to replace "tl;dr" with "I, $USERNAME, am anti-intellectual and anti-reading and yet I will still foist my prejudices warmed over as considered opinions on you"
posted by shothotbot at 6:16 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by shothotbot at 6:16 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
I prefer "Executive summary."
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:23 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Faint of Butt at 6:23 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Meatbomb, you know you're not actually a mod, right?
Wrong on the astral plane.
posted by flabdablet at 6:26 AM on March 14, 2012
Wrong on the astral plane.
posted by flabdablet at 6:26 AM on March 14, 2012
New new directive: all instances of "tl; dr" are to be replaced with links to this image.
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 6:27 AM on March 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 6:27 AM on March 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
Shall I march them out to the courtyard and have them subjected to YouTube comments?
Yeah and give them the tl;dr version after just to rub their noses in it.
posted by Meatbomb at 6:32 AM on March 14, 2012
Yeah and give them the tl;dr version after just to rub their noses in it.
posted by Meatbomb at 6:32 AM on March 14, 2012
your directive is subjective
(one couldn't say collective)
though free of foul invective
it's clearly non-objective
it seeks to be corrective
to make folks more selective
but being so protective
will never be effective
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:33 AM on March 14, 2012 [19 favorites]
(one couldn't say collective)
though free of foul invective
it's clearly non-objective
it seeks to be corrective
to make folks more selective
but being so protective
will never be effective
posted by flapjax at midnite at 6:33 AM on March 14, 2012 [19 favorites]
Couldn't someone write a Greasemonkey script like the one that deletes "Metafilter:" comments? Would that be ok?
posted by marienbad at 6:39 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by marienbad at 6:39 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
What, you want the mods to starve?
No, just fight it out, like any regular office.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:47 AM on March 14, 2012
No, just fight it out, like any regular office.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:47 AM on March 14, 2012
As an equal member of a large community, I think that attempting to speak for everyone is not a very effective rhetorical device. Maybe time to change your pitch up.
posted by The White Hat at 6:49 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by The White Hat at 6:49 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
No, just have a slightly easier life. I mean, anyone who has to deal with this stuff, and deletes a post with the comment "stop spamming our fucking website" deserves a break.
posted by marienbad at 6:51 AM on March 14, 2012
posted by marienbad at 6:51 AM on March 14, 2012
Are you going to give me my money back for my tl;dr mefi shirt?
posted by desjardins at 6:54 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by desjardins at 6:54 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
New directive: all you all have to come shove the great mound of snow alongside my driveways so it melts faster.
posted by edgeways at 6:55 AM on March 14, 2012
posted by edgeways at 6:55 AM on March 14, 2012
New directive: doughnuts for everyone, kittens for all.
posted by arcticseal at 6:58 AM on March 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by arcticseal at 6:58 AM on March 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
Meatbomb: ": we don't do "tl;dr" here anymore.
Site Search: "tl;dr": 318 comments, and in 69 posts in 10+ years, across 7 subsites.
It seems infrequent enough. Is this really that much of an issue?
posted by zarq at 7:03 AM on March 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
Site Search: "tl;dr": 318 comments, and in 69 posts in 10+ years, across 7 subsites.
It seems infrequent enough. Is this really that much of an issue?
posted by zarq at 7:03 AM on March 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
tl;dr - everything went well and a sound conlusion was reached that satisfies everyone.
posted by Artw at 7:04 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:04 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
I'm 100% fine with people appending tl;dr; summaries to their own long-winded comments.
It's rude as shit to do it to someone else's, and I think the mods have been deleting that sort of thing since forever.
posted by empath at 7:04 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
It's rude as shit to do it to someone else's, and I think the mods have been deleting that sort of thing since forever.
posted by empath at 7:04 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
zarq: Site Search: "tl;dr": 318 comments, and in 69 posts in 10+ years, across 7 subsites.
It appears that the search strips out the semicolon, so the results you listed are probably far, far less than if the site was looking for "tl;dr".
posted by gman at 7:07 AM on March 14, 2012
It appears that the search strips out the semicolon, so the results you listed are probably far, far less than if the site was looking for "tl;dr".
posted by gman at 7:07 AM on March 14, 2012
Is it the will of Elron?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:11 AM on March 14, 2012
posted by Kirth Gerson at 7:11 AM on March 14, 2012
attempting to speak for everyone
I am speaking for myself, to everyone. If I was speaking for everyone there would be no need to issue orders, make demands, etc.
posted by Meatbomb at 7:13 AM on March 14, 2012 [9 favorites]
I am speaking for myself, to everyone. If I was speaking for everyone there would be no need to issue orders, make demands, etc.
posted by Meatbomb at 7:13 AM on March 14, 2012 [9 favorites]
I was unaware that you were using the royal We. My apologies.
posted by The White Hat at 7:16 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by The White Hat at 7:16 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I like Meatbomb. I like tl;dr. I am awake and conflicted.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:20 AM on March 14, 2012 [24 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:20 AM on March 14, 2012 [24 favorites]
We dig TV ,we dig remote control, we dig the Furry Freak Brothers and the Twilight Zone, we dig Marvel and D.C., we dig Run-DMC, we dig Renegade Soundwave and... AC/DC!
posted by Artw at 7:23 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Artw at 7:23 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Meatbomb's OK. I have no strong feelings about tl; dr. I'm half awake and adrift in a pond of ennui.
posted by jonmc at 7:24 AM on March 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by jonmc at 7:24 AM on March 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
I must say, a well used tl;dr brings a smile to my face.
posted by planet at 7:25 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by planet at 7:25 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
gman: " It appears that the search strips out the semicolon, so the results you listed are probably far, far less than if the site was looking for "tl;dr"."
Ah! Thanks.
posted by zarq at 7:25 AM on March 14, 2012
Ah! Thanks.
posted by zarq at 7:25 AM on March 14, 2012
Kirth Gerson: "Is it the will of Elron?"
Operating Thetans hate tl;dr.
posted by zarq at 7:29 AM on March 14, 2012
Operating Thetans hate tl;dr.
posted by zarq at 7:29 AM on March 14, 2012
Jeez, we printed tl;dr on a t-shirt. It's a permanent part of our lexicon.
posted by radioamy at 7:29 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by radioamy at 7:29 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
I support brevity in posts and answers. I don't think the tl:dr part is the problem, it is the long winded stuff before it that should be eliminated. Then delete the phrase "tl:dr", leave wgat is after it, and you have a post or answer.
But why all the hate?
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:33 AM on March 14, 2012
But why all the hate?
posted by JohnnyGunn at 7:33 AM on March 14, 2012
New directive: We must all be monsters and stomp around and make monster noises. Your prompt compliance is appreciated.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 7:33 AM on March 14, 2012 [26 favorites]
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 7:33 AM on March 14, 2012 [26 favorites]
RAWWWWWRRGGGH
posted by elizardbits at 7:35 AM on March 14, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 7:35 AM on March 14, 2012 [8 favorites]
FAMOUS MONSTER: "New directive: We must all be monsters and stomp around and make monster noises. Your prompt compliance is appreciated."
What about dinosaurs? Would you accept dinosaurs?
posted by zarq at 7:36 AM on March 14, 2012
What about dinosaurs? Would you accept dinosaurs?
posted by zarq at 7:36 AM on March 14, 2012
I would accept dinosaurs.
ps. elizardbits is now the official Dinosaur-In-Chief of the Metafilter Monster Army™ and monstrous inquiries may also be directed to her in my absence
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 7:40 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
ps. elizardbits is now the official Dinosaur-In-Chief of the Metafilter Monster Army™ and monstrous inquiries may also be directed to her in my absence
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 7:40 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
New directive: we don't do "tl;dr" here anymore.
I love using tl;dr to summarize my long-but-worthwhile comments (because I have come to recognize that everyone sometimes want to read long comments and sometimes want to skim them, and tl;dr is a shorthand that explicitely means: This is a summary if you don't want to read this whole comment). This directive seems to be trying to speak for me, not to me. My directive would be "Everyone do tl;dr on their own long comments!"
posted by muddgirl at 7:43 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I love using tl;dr to summarize my long-but-worthwhile comments (because I have come to recognize that everyone sometimes want to read long comments and sometimes want to skim them, and tl;dr is a shorthand that explicitely means: This is a summary if you don't want to read this whole comment). This directive seems to be trying to speak for me, not to me. My directive would be "Everyone do tl;dr on their own long comments!"
posted by muddgirl at 7:43 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Jeez, we printed tl;dr on a t-shirt. It's a permanent part of our lexicon.
Lord Meatbomb has several items on today's agenda. Please remain seated and cuffed to your chair for further directives on that point.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:43 AM on March 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
Lord Meatbomb has several items on today's agenda. Please remain seated and cuffed to your chair for further directives on that point.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:43 AM on March 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
zarq, searching for "tl dr" instead finds 3,591 matches.
Not that I want to get rid of tl;dr from the site.
As for the substance, there are many legitimate ways of reading. There's a reason why people skim, why papers have abstracts, why it's often a good idea to encapsulate the gist of a long article in the opening paragraph etc.
It's probably a good thing if people indicate how thoroughly they read something when making remarks about it, and also good if they give a brief summary when they write a long post or question.
posted by philipy at 7:43 AM on March 14, 2012
Not that I want to get rid of tl;dr from the site.
As for the substance, there are many legitimate ways of reading. There's a reason why people skim, why papers have abstracts, why it's often a good idea to encapsulate the gist of a long article in the opening paragraph etc.
It's probably a good thing if people indicate how thoroughly they read something when making remarks about it, and also good if they give a brief summary when they write a long post or question.
posted by philipy at 7:43 AM on March 14, 2012
I will say what I please, thank you.
tl;dr No.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:45 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
tl;dr No.
posted by Ironmouth at 7:45 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm 100% fine with people appending tl;dr; summaries to their own long-winded comments.
It's rude as shit to do it to someone else's, and I think the mods have been deleting that sort of thing since forever.
Sounds sensible. "tl;dr" as a response is basically saying "I want to make a snarky comment about your post without the effort of reading it". Sometimes, a long post is necessary.
Whereas sticking tl;dr at the end of your own post with a summary is... sort of useful self-deprecation, right? It's a joke at one's own expense about the length of your post, and a restatement of its core principle. You probably don't actually want people not to read it, or you'd stick the "tl;dr" at the top, by the magic of command-x, command-v.
posted by running order squabble fest at 7:46 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
It's rude as shit to do it to someone else's, and I think the mods have been deleting that sort of thing since forever.
Sounds sensible. "tl;dr" as a response is basically saying "I want to make a snarky comment about your post without the effort of reading it". Sometimes, a long post is necessary.
Whereas sticking tl;dr at the end of your own post with a summary is... sort of useful self-deprecation, right? It's a joke at one's own expense about the length of your post, and a restatement of its core principle. You probably don't actually want people not to read it, or you'd stick the "tl;dr" at the top, by the magic of command-x, command-v.
posted by running order squabble fest at 7:46 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
Since Major Burns Meatbomb has graciously provided us with this forum, I'll note this little funny here: Mitt Romney in Alabama on Monday: "We are going to win tomorrow!" Romney spokesman Tuesday night: "I don't think anybody expected Mitt to win Alabama or Mississippi. As Mitt said early on in the campaign, this was an away game for him, and I think that's true."
(Sad Trombone.)
posted by octobersurprise at 7:46 AM on March 14, 2012
(Sad Trombone.)
posted by octobersurprise at 7:46 AM on March 14, 2012
We don't do that here.
posted by flabdablet at 7:50 AM on March 14, 2012
posted by flabdablet at 7:50 AM on March 14, 2012
It is helpful for AskMes where people ramble on and on. Forces them to think about their real question.
A user posting a "directive" in MetaTalk doesn't force anyone in AskMe to do anything. It is just MetaTalk grar fuel. And what running order squabble fest said.
posted by davejay at 7:58 AM on March 14, 2012
A user posting a "directive" in MetaTalk doesn't force anyone in AskMe to do anything. It is just MetaTalk grar fuel. And what running order squabble fest said.
posted by davejay at 7:58 AM on March 14, 2012
We dont here that do either but sometimes there it happened, didn't it, us?
posted by From Bklyn at 7:58 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by From Bklyn at 7:58 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
My problem with tl;dr is not that people use it at all. Summarizing can be helpful. My problem with it is that people put it at the end of a long post. It should go at the beginning of a long post. When you put it at the end, people will only see it after they read the whole thing, which defeats the purpose.
posted by John Cohen at 7:58 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by John Cohen at 7:58 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
philipy: "zarq, searching for "tl dr" instead finds 3,591 matches."
Whoa. Okay, that's a big difference.
posted by zarq at 7:59 AM on March 14, 2012
Whoa. Okay, that's a big difference.
posted by zarq at 7:59 AM on March 14, 2012
I don't know, Meatbomb, some people can only handle their Westphalian ham a slice at a sitting.
But yes, I don't like tl;dr, either.
We need less in-group signaling around here, not more.
posted by jamjam at 7:59 AM on March 14, 2012
But yes, I don't like tl;dr, either.
We need less in-group signaling around here, not more.
posted by jamjam at 7:59 AM on March 14, 2012
When you put it at the end, people will only see it after they read the whole thing, which defeats the purpose.
Personally, if I don't feel like reading the whole thing, I jump to the bottom to see if they left a summary. Just saying.
posted by davejay at 7:59 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Personally, if I don't feel like reading the whole thing, I jump to the bottom to see if they left a summary. Just saying.
posted by davejay at 7:59 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
You're not the boss of me.
posted by amro at 8:01 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by amro at 8:01 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Can we speak to your supervisor?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:06 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:06 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
official Dinosaur-In-Chief of the Metafilter Monster Army™
omg drunk with power
posted by elizardbits at 8:11 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
omg drunk with power
posted by elizardbits at 8:11 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Pony request?
A parody of INXS's "New Sensation" called "New Directive!", using the text of Meatbomb's post, and played with at least one ukulele, posted to MeFi music.
tl;dr
You ain't the boss of me.
posted by timsteil at 8:14 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
A parody of INXS's "New Sensation" called "New Directive!", using the text of Meatbomb's post, and played with at least one ukulele, posted to MeFi music.
tl;dr
You ain't the boss of me.
posted by timsteil at 8:14 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
“'Ho ho,' says the Keeper of the Beat.
posted by crunchland at 8:20 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by crunchland at 8:20 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, tl;dr is so Reddit.
posted by Fister Roboto at 8:21 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Fister Roboto at 8:21 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I did the 'special snowflake' thing once and felt shame.
First time I do the 'tl;dr' thing this comes up.
I haven't been here as long as some of the others, but weren't there 'TL;DR' shirts for sale? Isn't that kind of a thing around here? Am I totally missing something?
Is this really something to get grouchy over?
posted by TooFewShoes at 8:22 AM on March 14, 2012
First time I do the 'tl;dr' thing this comes up.
I haven't been here as long as some of the others, but weren't there 'TL;DR' shirts for sale? Isn't that kind of a thing around here? Am I totally missing something?
Is this really something to get grouchy over?
posted by TooFewShoes at 8:22 AM on March 14, 2012
New directive: we don't post while grouchy anymore.
posted by muddgirl at 8:22 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by muddgirl at 8:22 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
> I like Meatbomb. I like tl;dr. I am awake and conflicted.
Meatbomb's OK, but I find his mod shtick increasingly tiresome. And there's nothing wrong with tl;dr when summarizing one's own wordy comments. Used against others, it's being a dick, and the appropriate commandment is: Don't Be a Dick.
posted by languagehat at 8:24 AM on March 14, 2012 [26 favorites]
Meatbomb's OK, but I find his mod shtick increasingly tiresome. And there's nothing wrong with tl;dr when summarizing one's own wordy comments. Used against others, it's being a dick, and the appropriate commandment is: Don't Be a Dick.
posted by languagehat at 8:24 AM on March 14, 2012 [26 favorites]
That would cut posting down to almost nothing.
posted by crunchland at 8:24 AM on March 14, 2012
posted by crunchland at 8:24 AM on March 14, 2012
Yes M'lord, I'm aware of the grammatical error in the previous comment. Sorry M'lord, its a bad habit.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:44 AM on March 14
That should be "...'tis a bad habit." Grammar error # 2.
posted by BozoBurgerBonanza at 8:28 AM on March 14, 2012
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 7:44 AM on March 14
That should be "...'tis a bad habit." Grammar error # 2.
posted by BozoBurgerBonanza at 8:28 AM on March 14, 2012
A parody of INXS's "New Sensation" called "New Directive!", using the text of Meatbomb's post, and played with at least one ukulele, posted to MeFi music.
I started, but there aren't really a whole pile of chords in there, and my hand was getting tired of the E-A-E-A-E-A thing. Also, my throat hurts now. But it was fun playing around with the "love, baby lo-o-o-o-ove" equivalent.
posted by davejay at 8:29 AM on March 14, 2012
I started, but there aren't really a whole pile of chords in there, and my hand was getting tired of the E-A-E-A-E-A thing. Also, my throat hurts now. But it was fun playing around with the "love, baby lo-o-o-o-ove" equivalent.
posted by davejay at 8:29 AM on March 14, 2012
Be careful out there; apparently some tl;dr users are armed.
posted by TedW at 8:31 AM on March 14, 2012
posted by TedW at 8:31 AM on March 14, 2012
Jeez, we printed tl;dr on a t-shirt. It's a permanent part of our lexicon.
Gotta agree. My first thought was "Does this mean I have to get rid of my t-shirt?"
posted by worldswalker at 8:34 AM on March 14, 2012
Gotta agree. My first thought was "Does this mean I have to get rid of my t-shirt?"
posted by worldswalker at 8:34 AM on March 14, 2012
When you put it at the end, people will only see it after they read the whole thing, which defeats the purpose.
I don't think that "allowing people not to read the post" is exactly the purpose, though...
(Then again, "special snowflake" reads the same way to me - it's a joke with a purpose, yes? Acknowledging that there are no truly original problems with self-deprecation, while also flagging "but there are a few things about this particular situation which explain why I can't just search AskMe for a previous answer, and if you want to answer the question, knowing them will be useful".)
posted by running order squabble fest at 8:38 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
I don't think that "allowing people not to read the post" is exactly the purpose, though...
(Then again, "special snowflake" reads the same way to me - it's a joke with a purpose, yes? Acknowledging that there are no truly original problems with self-deprecation, while also flagging "but there are a few things about this particular situation which explain why I can't just search AskMe for a previous answer, and if you want to answer the question, knowing them will be useful".)
posted by running order squabble fest at 8:38 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Next thing you know, someone will be calling for the end of "plate of beans" and "everyone needs a hug." Once we get past those, we'll really start wallowing in communal self-loathing.
posted by crunchland at 8:42 AM on March 14, 2012
posted by crunchland at 8:42 AM on March 14, 2012
I suggest we get rid of communal self-loathing.
posted by ODiV at 8:43 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by ODiV at 8:43 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Could you please rephrase that in the form of a directive?
posted by crunchland at 8:45 AM on March 14, 2012
posted by crunchland at 8:45 AM on March 14, 2012
New directive: Stop telling people how to interact with the site and which words and phrases are disallowed! They paid their $5 too.
tl;dr? FIAMO.
posted by cjorgensen at 8:47 AM on March 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
tl;dr? FIAMO.
posted by cjorgensen at 8:47 AM on March 14, 2012 [6 favorites]
I actually like tl;dr. To me it usually seems less like a summary for people who didn't read and more like an inside joke for the in-group of people that actually read your whole post. You automatically create this group by writing a long bit of text, so why not throw them a chuckle.
As for the people who only read the tl;tdr: they already don't give a shit.
posted by cirrostratus at 8:50 AM on March 14, 2012
As for the people who only read the tl;tdr: they already don't give a shit.
posted by cirrostratus at 8:50 AM on March 14, 2012
Next thing you know, someone will be calling for the end of "plate of beans" and "everyone needs a hug."
TOTALITARIAN REGIME, SAME AS IN TOWN
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:58 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
TOTALITARIAN REGIME, SAME AS IN TOWN
posted by Mr. Bad Example at 8:58 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Personally, if I don't feel like reading the whole thing, I jump to the bottom to see if they left a summary.
Yeah, that's why they should put it at the top. If the first thing you do is jump to the bottom, that implies that the post isn't in the best order.
I don't think that "allowing people not to read the post" is exactly the purpose, though...
Huh? Then what is the purpose? Doesn't the "dr" part stand for "didn't read"?
posted by John Cohen at 9:03 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Yeah, that's why they should put it at the top. If the first thing you do is jump to the bottom, that implies that the post isn't in the best order.
I don't think that "allowing people not to read the post" is exactly the purpose, though...
Huh? Then what is the purpose? Doesn't the "dr" part stand for "didn't read"?
posted by John Cohen at 9:03 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm all for New Directive. Their cover of "We don't do "tl;dr" here anymore" is bound to be a hit.
posted by srboisvert at 9:05 AM on March 14, 2012
posted by srboisvert at 9:05 AM on March 14, 2012
increasingly tiresome
Is that on a log scale or something? You've been finding me increasingly tiresome since 2006 or so, would have thought I'd put you right to sleep by now my good sir.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:08 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Is that on a log scale or something? You've been finding me increasingly tiresome since 2006 or so, would have thought I'd put you right to sleep by now my good sir.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:08 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Little known fact: languagehat has been asleep since June 2010.
posted by ODiV at 9:10 AM on March 14, 2012
posted by ODiV at 9:10 AM on March 14, 2012
M'lord, the rabble are growing fierce and large in number, while making promises of free cable under a new regime. I may have to double cross you, if things don't turn around soon.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:10 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:10 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
See, I think the Astral Mod should be handing out flyers or something. Or writing an astral FAQ. IIRC, he doesn't like Alphabet threads, tl;dr or ROT13.
Is there anything else you've banned in your alt-universe/ideal Metafilter? :)
posted by zarq at 9:10 AM on March 14, 2012
Is there anything else you've banned in your alt-universe/ideal Metafilter? :)
posted by zarq at 9:10 AM on March 14, 2012
ODiV: "Little known fact: languagehat has been asleep since June 2010."
Languagehat is Arnold Schwarzenegger?
This explains so mu-... no, actually this doesn't explain anything. Not even plochops. WTF Hat!?
posted by zarq at 9:12 AM on March 14, 2012
Languagehat is Arnold Schwarzenegger?
This explains so mu-... no, actually this doesn't explain anything. Not even plochops. WTF Hat!?
posted by zarq at 9:12 AM on March 14, 2012
John Cohen: Well, if it's in the same post it's already a referential usage, right? It's referencing the practice of people putting "tl;dr" under other people's long posts. It wouldn't make sense to be saying that the post you have just written was too long, so you didn't read it.
So, it already doesn't mean "Too long; didn't read". It means something like "And, to head off people who would otherwise put 'tl;dr' under this post, here is the heavily abbreviated version". It's a restatement of the central premise of the long post, and also a laughing-at-oneself joke about how much the reader has been asked to go through to get that central premise.
I very much doubt that many people writing 2000-word posts about, say, World War 2 history actually think that what they have written has exactly the same value as their addendum "tl;dr - Never get involved in a land war in Asia". It's pre-emptive, apotropaic self-mockery, alongside a restatement of the core premise.
Incidentally:
Meatbomb: MetaFilter: You don't get to tell other people how to speak.
(Sorry, couldn't resist. Realise context very different. But was amused.)
posted by running order squabble fest at 9:13 AM on March 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
So, it already doesn't mean "Too long; didn't read". It means something like "And, to head off people who would otherwise put 'tl;dr' under this post, here is the heavily abbreviated version". It's a restatement of the central premise of the long post, and also a laughing-at-oneself joke about how much the reader has been asked to go through to get that central premise.
I very much doubt that many people writing 2000-word posts about, say, World War 2 history actually think that what they have written has exactly the same value as their addendum "tl;dr - Never get involved in a land war in Asia". It's pre-emptive, apotropaic self-mockery, alongside a restatement of the core premise.
Incidentally:
Meatbomb: MetaFilter: You don't get to tell other people how to speak.
(Sorry, couldn't resist. Realise context very different. But was amused.)
posted by running order squabble fest at 9:13 AM on March 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
New directive: Stop telling people how to interact with the site and which words and phrases are disallowed! They paid their $5 too.
Let us review the history books, dear sir!
ALL HAIL MEATBOMB, until something else comes along!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:15 AM on March 14, 2012
Let us review the history books, dear sir!
ALL HAIL MEATBOMB, until something else comes along!
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 9:15 AM on March 14, 2012
would have thought I'd put you right to sleep by now my good sir.
He would be, BUT YOU KEEP TALKING. Let the man get some rest, sheesh.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:16 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
He would be, BUT YOU KEEP TALKING. Let the man get some rest, sheesh.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:16 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
It may not be cute. It may not be funny. I doubt it's anti-intellectual and there are times when it's really okay to be anti-reading.
Like when you don't have a lot of time in the day to be reading stuff on Metafilter and you tend to gravitate towards the (often quite long) Human Relations AskMe questions. Breezing past the More Inside text to get to the heart of what the poster's actually asking (usually at the bottom, looking like that dreaded Teal Deer) is useful for picking out the posts you want to go back and read all the way through in the small window of Metafilter-time that you have.
Hmmm, well.....maybe I just need more Metafilter-time!
posted by Squee at 9:22 AM on March 14, 2012
Like when you don't have a lot of time in the day to be reading stuff on Metafilter and you tend to gravitate towards the (often quite long) Human Relations AskMe questions. Breezing past the More Inside text to get to the heart of what the poster's actually asking (usually at the bottom, looking like that dreaded Teal Deer) is useful for picking out the posts you want to go back and read all the way through in the small window of Metafilter-time that you have.
Hmmm, well.....maybe I just need more Metafilter-time!
posted by Squee at 9:22 AM on March 14, 2012
Wow. This sort of gotcha-style mining of people's posting histories so you can confront them when they're contradicting themselves is very enticing. How do you keep track? Is it using an old-fashioned Rolodex style system, or is it with a fancy online AI database?
posted by crunchland at 9:22 AM on March 14, 2012
posted by crunchland at 9:22 AM on March 14, 2012
Quite seriously, I'd appreciate "tl-'dw" text for video links.
posted by Stagger Lee at 9:24 AM on March 14, 2012 [10 favorites]
posted by Stagger Lee at 9:24 AM on March 14, 2012 [10 favorites]
I actually like tl;dr here's what i just said summaries at the end of long comments. It's pretty easy to gloss past a critical NOT or drop a very important qualifier in the middle of huge block of text, particularly when you're already composing your Very Important Thoughts on This Very Topic in the little comment box. I think they are a nice: here's what I just said, so please don't react to what you think I said instead.
But then I spent four years in law school and then another four teaching law students how to write and now I work for a think tank. We like to tell you what we're going to tell you. Tell you what we're telling you. And then tell you what we've just told you. In case it's not clear what we're telling you, we just told you what we told you.
posted by crush-onastick at 9:25 AM on March 14, 2012 [8 favorites]
But then I spent four years in law school and then another four teaching law students how to write and now I work for a think tank. We like to tell you what we're going to tell you. Tell you what we're telling you. And then tell you what we've just told you. In case it's not clear what we're telling you, we just told you what we told you.
posted by crush-onastick at 9:25 AM on March 14, 2012 [8 favorites]
MetaFilter: Thank you in advance for your full compliance in this matter.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:29 AM on March 14, 2012
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 9:29 AM on March 14, 2012
Sorry, Crunchland. I just remembered it, and thought it was funny. I don't think these situations map to each other at all, and I'm kind of assuming Meatbomb is not being serious here - or rather is using a humorous construction (I forbid this henceforth!) to soften the actual message (I don't like it when people write "tl;dr").
As for Rolodexes (Rolodeces?) and databases. I just... remember what people say, and where. Can you not you remember at least the vague content of conversations you've had recently, and who said what? It doesn't seem like something one would need a system for.
posted by running order squabble fest at 9:33 AM on March 14, 2012
As for Rolodexes (Rolodeces?) and databases. I just... remember what people say, and where. Can you not you remember at least the vague content of conversations you've had recently, and who said what? It doesn't seem like something one would need a system for.
posted by running order squabble fest at 9:33 AM on March 14, 2012
or rather is using a humorous construction (I forbid this henceforth!) to soften the actual message (I don't like it when people write "tl;dr").
Just like people use the ironic construction 'tl;dr' to soften the social fact that they have to provide a summary because many, many, many users skim comments?
posted by muddgirl at 9:34 AM on March 14, 2012
Just like people use the ironic construction 'tl;dr' to soften the social fact that they have to provide a summary because many, many, many users skim comments?
posted by muddgirl at 9:34 AM on March 14, 2012
Can someone summarize this thread for me? I'm in the car and I can't read all this text now.
posted by joe vrrr at 9:35 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by joe vrrr at 9:35 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
This sort of gotcha-style mining of people's posting histories so you can confront them when they're contradicting themselves is very enticing. How do you keep track? Is it using an old-fashioned Rolodex style system, or is it with a fancy online AI database?
I use Post-It-Notes, myself.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:36 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I use Post-It-Notes, myself.
posted by octobersurprise at 9:36 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
joe vrrr: "Can someone summarize this thread for me? I'm in the car and I can't read all this text now."
Meatbomb hates summaries.
Also, bunnies.
posted by zarq at 9:37 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Meatbomb hates summaries.
Also, bunnies.
posted by zarq at 9:37 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Meatbomb, you know you're not actually a mod, right?
Damn rights. He's a rocker.
posted by philip-random at 9:38 AM on March 14, 2012 [12 favorites]
Damn rights. He's a rocker.
posted by philip-random at 9:38 AM on March 14, 2012 [12 favorites]
1) There is no need to summarize your long comment.
Actually, yes there is, and we need more of it.
There are a few users -- I'm not going to name names -- whose comments I basically always skip. My time is not infinite, and there are more interesting things to read, including the comments of less prolix users.
I'm not saying that long comments are always bad. A lot of long comments are in-depth explorations of things or personal anecdotes or something else that shouldn't be shortened. But a number of users seem incapable of stating their point of view in any sort of succinct fashion. They're not saying anything new or interesting, they're just stating their opinion on something, and taking a really long time to do it.
I know this is all sorts of against-the-rules, but often when I see a comment take up more than a screenfull, I'll often scroll down and see who the author is. And if it's one of the usual suspects, then yeah, I skip it. Sorry.
posted by Afroblanco at 9:44 AM on March 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
Actually, yes there is, and we need more of it.
There are a few users -- I'm not going to name names -- whose comments I basically always skip. My time is not infinite, and there are more interesting things to read, including the comments of less prolix users.
I'm not saying that long comments are always bad. A lot of long comments are in-depth explorations of things or personal anecdotes or something else that shouldn't be shortened. But a number of users seem incapable of stating their point of view in any sort of succinct fashion. They're not saying anything new or interesting, they're just stating their opinion on something, and taking a really long time to do it.
I know this is all sorts of against-the-rules, but often when I see a comment take up more than a screenfull, I'll often scroll down and see who the author is. And if it's one of the usual suspects, then yeah, I skip it. Sorry.
posted by Afroblanco at 9:44 AM on March 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
MetaFilter: Your Favorite Internet Shorthand Sucks.
I think we should all just post IRTNOG if we want to save time.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:45 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
I think we should all just post IRTNOG if we want to save time.
posted by Sidhedevil at 9:45 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Just like people use the ironic construction 'tl;dr' to soften the social fact that they have to provide a summary because many, many, many users skim comments?
That was one of the subtexts, yes. "tl;dr" functioning as "in case you weren't sure what I was trying to say - for whatever reason (skimming, complexity, assumption of preexisting knowledge or shared ideas), this is the core principle".
So... if Jonathan Swift had put "tl;dr - Stop being dicks to the Irish, guys!" at the end of "A Modest Proposal", it would have sacrificed satirical humor to clarity. Which is why he didn't do it, of course. Although I think he encouraged those who were scandalized at the idea of eating babies to FIAMO.
Oddly, "tl;dr" there might function as an encouragement to read something twice. Skim it, look at the tl;dr, think "oh, that's not what I thought he said", then re-read it.
posted by running order squabble fest at 9:49 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
That was one of the subtexts, yes. "tl;dr" functioning as "in case you weren't sure what I was trying to say - for whatever reason (skimming, complexity, assumption of preexisting knowledge or shared ideas), this is the core principle".
So... if Jonathan Swift had put "tl;dr - Stop being dicks to the Irish, guys!" at the end of "A Modest Proposal", it would have sacrificed satirical humor to clarity. Which is why he didn't do it, of course. Although I think he encouraged those who were scandalized at the idea of eating babies to FIAMO.
Oddly, "tl;dr" there might function as an encouragement to read something twice. Skim it, look at the tl;dr, think "oh, that's not what I thought he said", then re-read it.
posted by running order squabble fest at 9:49 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Meatbomb hates summaries.
Also, bunnies.
Oh no, he likes bunnies, in a cream sauce.
posted by Jahaza at 9:53 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also, bunnies.
Oh no, he likes bunnies, in a cream sauce.
posted by Jahaza at 9:53 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
tl;dr is kind of necessary, simply based on the disgusting subject matter of one of Meatbomb's most recent posts
posted by KokuRyu at 9:55 AM on March 14, 2012
posted by KokuRyu at 9:55 AM on March 14, 2012
Whew, thank god I didn't stumble into this thread last night when I was drunk. Sober I can just tsk tsk.
Tsk, tsk.
I still think FTFY means Fuck That, Fuck You.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 9:58 AM on March 14, 2012 [15 favorites]
Tsk, tsk.
I still think FTFY means Fuck That, Fuck You.
posted by OnTheLastCastle at 9:58 AM on March 14, 2012 [15 favorites]
There is only one directive - the Prime Directive.
posted by IndigoRain at 9:58 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by IndigoRain at 9:58 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Jahaza: " Oh no, he likes bunnies, in a cream sauce."
With a side of breaded kitten primavera.
posted by zarq at 10:00 AM on March 14, 2012
With a side of breaded kitten primavera.
posted by zarq at 10:00 AM on March 14, 2012
As I'm sure has been claimed by others, I'm in favor of ...
1. Here's what I think in short (one might say summarized) form
2. And now I will elaborfuckingrate because it's online and that's how I swing, baby
My point being, the place for a concise, focused statement of intent is at the beginning of your spiel, not the end. But that said, TL:DR doesn't annoy me near as much as special snowflake as it at least serves a purpose. Special snowflake just serves to make me want to hurt something small, fluffy, cute, or maybe send money to Joseph Kony. It really does.
posted by philip-random at 10:05 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
1. Here's what I think in short (one might say summarized) form
2. And now I will elaborfuckingrate because it's online and that's how I swing, baby
My point being, the place for a concise, focused statement of intent is at the beginning of your spiel, not the end. But that said, TL:DR doesn't annoy me near as much as special snowflake as it at least serves a purpose. Special snowflake just serves to make me want to hurt something small, fluffy, cute, or maybe send money to Joseph Kony. It really does.
posted by philip-random at 10:05 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
I think a précis of a long comment can be a good thing, although, I also think it is often more useful at the beginning than at the end. Still, I dislike the phrase "tl;dr" because I find it glib and it feels insulting.
posted by grouse at 10:13 AM on March 14, 2012
posted by grouse at 10:13 AM on March 14, 2012
New directive: abortions for some, minature American flags for others.
posted by IvoShandor at 10:16 AM on March 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by IvoShandor at 10:16 AM on March 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
I vote for keeping tl;dr around - it's handy for keeping pb on alert against sql injections.
posted by Dr Dracator at 10:24 AM on March 14, 2012
posted by Dr Dracator at 10:24 AM on March 14, 2012
I warned you all back in 2000 what blogs would do to the web. And now, here you have it. tl;dr will destroy us all.
posted by rich at 10:45 AM on March 14, 2012
posted by rich at 10:45 AM on March 14, 2012
I warned you all back in 2000 what blogs would do to the web. And now, here you have it. tl;dr will destroy us all.
Oh go on, tell us again about the reaper invasion, Shepard. The council finds your fairy tales so amusing.
posted by juv3nal at 10:47 AM on March 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
Oh go on, tell us again about the reaper invasion, Shepard. The council finds your fairy tales so amusing.
posted by juv3nal at 10:47 AM on March 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
Whose teal this is, I think I deer
His post was on the Azure here
He will not care that I say "No"
To his directives in this sphere
His last suggestion is de trop
It's on my list of things that blow
Along with stuff like turnip cake
And any kind of fishing show
I give my head an angry shake
Perhaps there has been some mistake
Did he forget that we're not sheep?
Or that our GRAR is wide-awake?
So what if "tl;dr" makes him weep?
Or causes him to miss his sleep?
Teal deer are what we're going to keep,
Teal deer are what we're going to keep.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:11 AM on March 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
His post was on the Azure here
He will not care that I say "No"
To his directives in this sphere
His last suggestion is de trop
It's on my list of things that blow
Along with stuff like turnip cake
And any kind of fishing show
I give my head an angry shake
Perhaps there has been some mistake
Did he forget that we're not sheep?
Or that our GRAR is wide-awake?
So what if "tl;dr" makes him weep?
Or causes him to miss his sleep?
Teal deer are what we're going to keep,
Teal deer are what we're going to keep.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:11 AM on March 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
This AskMe answer is, IMHO, an awesome use of tl;dr. Details for those who want them, humorous summary for those who don't (and tiny flags for everyone else).
posted by en forme de poire at 11:14 AM on March 14, 2012
posted by en forme de poire at 11:14 AM on March 14, 2012
Man, it is seriously annoying when people try to constrict what and how others can post, ever more narrowly and narrowly, based on nothing more than their own quirky preferences.
posted by cairdeas at 11:16 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by cairdeas at 11:16 AM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
cairdeas - I find issue with your desire to constrict what people want to post in regards to voicing their own quirky preferences.
posted by rich at 11:24 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by rich at 11:24 AM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
What's wrong with using snowflakes? I think they are pretty, and unique. Special, even.
And, if there was a snowflake discussion already, I apologize for asking again -- the thread may have been TL and I DR it all.
posted by NikitaNikita at 11:27 AM on March 14, 2012
And, if there was a snowflake discussion already, I apologize for asking again -- the thread may have been TL and I DR it all.
posted by NikitaNikita at 11:27 AM on March 14, 2012
Y'know what little bit of short hand gets my goat?
This.
I find it both lazy and I think the tone is somehow (and I'm not sure entirely how) dismissive and aggressive at the same time.
But I know other people love it and feel like it allows them to sum up their substantial agreement in some sort of way that makes them feel good about themselves and the world. So whadda y'gonna do?
We hates them, precious. We hates them forever!
posted by adamdschneider at 11:46 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
This.
I find it both lazy and I think the tone is somehow (and I'm not sure entirely how) dismissive and aggressive at the same time.
But I know other people love it and feel like it allows them to sum up their substantial agreement in some sort of way that makes them feel good about themselves and the world. So whadda y'gonna do?
We hates them, precious. We hates them forever!
posted by adamdschneider at 11:46 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
tl;dr
posted by Cranberry at 12:03 PM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Cranberry at 12:03 PM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
There's a difference between saying "I don't like this quirky thing" and "Everyone should stop this quirky thing because I don't like it."
posted by cairdeas at 12:06 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by cairdeas at 12:06 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I demand a widget that automatically detects when you are typing with sarcasm and flags responses to your post that insist on taking you seriously.
posted by rich at 12:27 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by rich at 12:27 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
Meta Filter: Don't think about the authority of the messenger - rather, consider the righteousness of the message.
posted by Splunge at 12:49 PM on March 14, 2012
posted by Splunge at 12:49 PM on March 14, 2012
I miss the old subversive meatbomb.
posted by doctor_negative at 12:49 PM on March 14, 2012
posted by doctor_negative at 12:49 PM on March 14, 2012
New suggestion: we don't use 'we' to include all the other thems when we actually intend to speak for ourselves, to everyone, as we later explain. Being a matter of not being Gollum and stuff.
tl;dr: STOMP GROWR as per fabulous monster's request.
Darn where are my reading glasses
posted by Namlit at 12:50 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
tl;dr: STOMP GROWR as per fabulous monster's request.
Darn where are my reading glasses
posted by Namlit at 12:50 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I hate tl;dr too but honestly does anyone believe threads like this do anything to modify site behavior? Only a small percentage of the site reads MeTa and it is uniformly the most obstinate, willful, cussed percentage. What is there to talk about? I hate it! I think it is OK! I'm going to make the obvious joke about it!
posted by nanojath at 12:59 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by nanojath at 12:59 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
If more people bothered to write their comments in the proper format, we wouldn't need tl;dr.
The proper format is an introduction that encapsulates the argument being made, followed by one or more paragraphs that support the argument or introduce sub-arguments or related interesting points. The concluding sentence or paragraph is a restatement and summation of the preceeding argument for the benefit of the reader.
This is the standard form short written essay, and it is a shame that standards have gotten so lax as to allow people to post using other formats.
This format allows the busy reader quickly to assess the argument being advanced by each comment. Interested readers are able to pursue the argument in greater depth, while disinterested or busy readers can skim the first paragraphs to get the gist of the conversation.
Please adopt this writing style -- and eschew the tl;dr convention -- in your future communications.
posted by gauche at 1:16 PM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
The proper format is an introduction that encapsulates the argument being made, followed by one or more paragraphs that support the argument or introduce sub-arguments or related interesting points. The concluding sentence or paragraph is a restatement and summation of the preceeding argument for the benefit of the reader.
This is the standard form short written essay, and it is a shame that standards have gotten so lax as to allow people to post using other formats.
This format allows the busy reader quickly to assess the argument being advanced by each comment. Interested readers are able to pursue the argument in greater depth, while disinterested or busy readers can skim the first paragraphs to get the gist of the conversation.
Please adopt this writing style -- and eschew the tl;dr convention -- in your future communications.
posted by gauche at 1:16 PM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
I disagree. Comments should be written in the eight-legged essay format required during the Chinese imperial examination.
posted by griphus at 1:20 PM on March 14, 2012 [8 favorites]
posted by griphus at 1:20 PM on March 14, 2012 [8 favorites]
I can support the eight-legged essay format, as long as we agree it is done in iambic pentameter.
It will ensure a consistant standard for all posters, as well as allow us to easily translate Metafilter into its eventual, and long overdue, Broadway debut.
posted by rich at 1:27 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
It will ensure a consistant standard for all posters, as well as allow us to easily translate Metafilter into its eventual, and long overdue, Broadway debut.
posted by rich at 1:27 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
The concluding sentence or paragraph is a restatement and summation of the preceeding argument for the benefit of the reader.
In other words, a TL;DR! The use of TL;DR just signals that the comment is already in short-form essay format!
posted by muddgirl at 1:32 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
In other words, a TL;DR! The use of TL;DR just signals that the comment is already in short-form essay format!
posted by muddgirl at 1:32 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
"I know this is all sorts of against-the-rules, but often when I see a comment take up more than a screenfull, I'll often scroll down and see who the author is. And if it's one of the usual suspects, then yeah, I skip it. Sorry."
(Assuming you'll read this comment...)
It's true that Matt has said that he put the attribution at the end to encourage people to evaluate comments on their own terms and not primarily through one's view of the author; but that's not some absolute virtue. I don't think there's anything wrong with avoiding particular user's comments.
There's a difference between something that is a community ethos and something that each individual user is expected to conform to. Often, these two things are pretty much the same. But sometimes, they're only loosely related. This is, I think, one of the latter. In general, we're expected to pretty much read everything when we're participating in a conversation. But is this such a hard rule that every individual is expected to read every comment in every thread (in which they participate, or even not)? Of course not. An individual who skips a large portion of comments on a user-basis, and who does so consistently, might be an individual that is so contrary to the community ethos that it's a problem.
But not reading a particular user's long comments (such as when the user is me and the comments are mine)? Nothing wrong with that. Not reading a particular user's comments at all, when this (avoiding reading a particular person) is the exception and not the rule (avoiding reading large numbers of people)? Nothing wrong with that. Not reading long comments in general? Nothing wrong with that, either. Sure, you shouldn't respond to things you didn't read...that's just common courtesy and sense.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:58 PM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
(Assuming you'll read this comment...)
It's true that Matt has said that he put the attribution at the end to encourage people to evaluate comments on their own terms and not primarily through one's view of the author; but that's not some absolute virtue. I don't think there's anything wrong with avoiding particular user's comments.
There's a difference between something that is a community ethos and something that each individual user is expected to conform to. Often, these two things are pretty much the same. But sometimes, they're only loosely related. This is, I think, one of the latter. In general, we're expected to pretty much read everything when we're participating in a conversation. But is this such a hard rule that every individual is expected to read every comment in every thread (in which they participate, or even not)? Of course not. An individual who skips a large portion of comments on a user-basis, and who does so consistently, might be an individual that is so contrary to the community ethos that it's a problem.
But not reading a particular user's long comments (such as when the user is me and the comments are mine)? Nothing wrong with that. Not reading a particular user's comments at all, when this (avoiding reading a particular person) is the exception and not the rule (avoiding reading large numbers of people)? Nothing wrong with that. Not reading long comments in general? Nothing wrong with that, either. Sure, you shouldn't respond to things you didn't read...that's just common courtesy and sense.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 1:58 PM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
That's total crap Ivan, Lucas clearly peaked back in the '70s and it's been downhill since.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:18 PM on March 14, 2012
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:18 PM on March 14, 2012
> Let us review the history books, dear sir!
tl;dr? I'm probably a hypocrite.
posted by cjorgensen at 2:21 PM on March 14, 2012
- I was really drunk when I posted that.
- Zalgo fills me with a blind berserker rage. I fear for the man with a Zalgo tattoo.
- My complaint was a usability complaint.
- I was really drunk when I posted that.
- I was wrong. I shouldn't have publicly called for it's banning, I should have just FIAMO.
- Unbeknownst to me there was already a mod eradication process under way.
tl;dr? I'm probably a hypocrite.
posted by cjorgensen at 2:21 PM on March 14, 2012
So tired of the pretending to be a mod shtick. Really makes me want to ignore anything he says.
tl;dr is useful and part of site lexicon at this point. So.....no.
posted by lazaruslong at 2:43 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
tl;dr is useful and part of site lexicon at this point. So.....no.
posted by lazaruslong at 2:43 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
But yes, I don't like tl;dr, either.
We need less in-group signaling around here, not more.
I think that unwritten rules about what we don't "do here," especially when it's common elsewhere -- @user, tl;dr, special snowflake, etc. -- are way more in-group signalling than just letting people use them as they like.
Especially when something is "officialy sanctioned" by being on a shirt or something, and then some people move on and decide that its use is now a faux pas deserving of callout.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 3:11 PM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
We need less in-group signaling around here, not more.
I think that unwritten rules about what we don't "do here," especially when it's common elsewhere -- @user, tl;dr, special snowflake, etc. -- are way more in-group signalling than just letting people use them as they like.
Especially when something is "officialy sanctioned" by being on a shirt or something, and then some people move on and decide that its use is now a faux pas deserving of callout.
posted by Karlos the Jackal at 3:11 PM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
What's with the Grumpy Old Man persona Meatbomb? Do you think it's funny? Are you afraid people will mock you if you're sincere and/or thoughtful?
If you want to generate a real discussion you should be honest, direct, and respectful in your thoughts. This kinda-fake-but-actually-kinda-real sarcastic diatribes are the favoured communication tools of adolescents, afraid that displaying care for anything will be construed as a weakness. But, I don't know if generating a real discussion was the name of the game, here. Which makes me wonder why you bother posting these imperious metas.
tl;dr if you want people to engage give them some respect, don't act like a thirteen year old, and if you don't want that this is just a boring joke.
posted by smoke at 3:17 PM on March 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
If you want to generate a real discussion you should be honest, direct, and respectful in your thoughts. This kinda-fake-but-actually-kinda-real sarcastic diatribes are the favoured communication tools of adolescents, afraid that displaying care for anything will be construed as a weakness. But, I don't know if generating a real discussion was the name of the game, here. Which makes me wonder why you bother posting these imperious metas.
tl;dr if you want people to engage give them some respect, don't act like a thirteen year old, and if you don't want that this is just a boring joke.
posted by smoke at 3:17 PM on March 14, 2012 [7 favorites]
Hey! I hate things! Everybody listen because there are things I hate!
posted by cmoj at 3:22 PM on March 14, 2012
posted by cmoj at 3:22 PM on March 14, 2012
"special snowflake details inside" is so nails-on-chalkboard annoying, my hate for it has started to spread to actual snowflakes.
Good thing I live in San Francisco.
posted by Afroblanco at 4:00 PM on March 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
Good thing I live in San Francisco.
posted by Afroblanco at 4:00 PM on March 14, 2012 [4 favorites]
Hey you, smoke,
Let's not get derailed with the tone argument - as I said about 50 comments ago the message should be more important than whether you like the way I present my case. There is nothing here that is "fake mod" beyond your own baggage that you bring to the table today.
Feel free to substitute "New directive: we..." with "Request: please..." and everything else I wrote stands as is, it is my thoughtful and sincere opinion on why tl;dr sucks. But either way, I have seen a productive airing of views both in support of my own opinion and in support of tl;dr. Also a few hahas and some fun - a little levity mixed in here doesn't seem to have been problematic in any way for the majority of participants in thread. This is a debate on a minor stylistic quibble, I am not feeling oppressed or threatened, so really this doesn't need to be a heartfelt baring of our inner lives, eh?
Peace out!
posted by Meatbomb at 4:07 PM on March 14, 2012
Let's not get derailed with the tone argument - as I said about 50 comments ago the message should be more important than whether you like the way I present my case. There is nothing here that is "fake mod" beyond your own baggage that you bring to the table today.
Feel free to substitute "New directive: we..." with "Request: please..." and everything else I wrote stands as is, it is my thoughtful and sincere opinion on why tl;dr sucks. But either way, I have seen a productive airing of views both in support of my own opinion and in support of tl;dr. Also a few hahas and some fun - a little levity mixed in here doesn't seem to have been problematic in any way for the majority of participants in thread. This is a debate on a minor stylistic quibble, I am not feeling oppressed or threatened, so really this doesn't need to be a heartfelt baring of our inner lives, eh?
Peace out!
posted by Meatbomb at 4:07 PM on March 14, 2012
There is nothing here that is "fake mod" beyond your own baggage that you bring to the table today.
Yeah, that's demonstrably untrue. Others are way the hell over that also. Kindly cut it out please.
posted by lazaruslong at 4:11 PM on March 14, 2012
Yeah, that's demonstrably untrue. Others are way the hell over that also. Kindly cut it out please.
posted by lazaruslong at 4:11 PM on March 14, 2012
I love tl;dr. It's my favorite thing about MeFi. Use 'em while they're fresh!
posted by rain at 4:16 PM on March 14, 2012
posted by rain at 4:16 PM on March 14, 2012
That's the thing about being a [fake] mod--people aren't always sure whether you're speaking ex cathedra.
posted by box at 4:16 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by box at 4:16 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I think we should all just post IRTNOG if we want to save time.
I got drunker than hell on IRTNOG during Festivus a few years back, ended up strapped to the roof of a minibus with a dead goat.
Good times, good times.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:18 PM on March 14, 2012
I got drunker than hell on IRTNOG during Festivus a few years back, ended up strapped to the roof of a minibus with a dead goat.
Good times, good times.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:18 PM on March 14, 2012
tl;dr is about as useful or funny as that quizzically raised eyebow thing improv troupe members do.
anyway, no problem with meatbomb being a mod, at least there's a high wysiwyg quotient.
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:24 PM on March 14, 2012
anyway, no problem with meatbomb being a mod, at least there's a high wysiwyg quotient.
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:24 PM on March 14, 2012
tl(special snowflake [inside])dr
Let's keep using it with mod eration.
posted by Namlit at 4:29 PM on March 14, 2012
Let's keep using it with mod eration.
posted by Namlit at 4:29 PM on March 14, 2012
Meatbomb: "Don't think about the authority of the messenger - rather, consider the righteousness of the message."
Fair enough.
*considers*
No.
posted by dg at 4:34 PM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
Fair enough.
*considers*
No.
posted by dg at 4:34 PM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
the message should be more important than whether you like the way I present my case. --- Wrong. You've been here long enough to know that more than half the battle in Metatalk is the way something is presented. It's been an observable fact that the tone of a front page post as well as the tone of the first batch of replies determines how a thread plays out. So this thread should clearly demonstrate to you that your "request" has gone over like a lead balloon. So much so that some people have charitably given you the benefit of the doubt and assumed it was all just a joke. In any case, your goal of the rest of us limiting the thing you hate has utterly failed this time.
posted by crunchland at 4:40 PM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by crunchland at 4:40 PM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
Let's not get derailed with the tone argument
Nothing personal to you Meatbomb, but I keep seeing people using the tone argument thing as a kind of "get out of jail free card" to assert that that nobody can ever have a problem with their tone or the way they talk to or interact with other people, or they frame things. It's getting old.
posted by cairdeas at 5:09 PM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
Nothing personal to you Meatbomb, but I keep seeing people using the tone argument thing as a kind of "get out of jail free card" to assert that that nobody can ever have a problem with their tone or the way they talk to or interact with other people, or they frame things. It's getting old.
posted by cairdeas at 5:09 PM on March 14, 2012 [3 favorites]
> ended up strapped to the roof of a minibus with a dead goat.
Was the goat dead before you got there? Eh? Eh?
posted by languagehat at 5:11 PM on March 14, 2012
Was the goat dead before you got there? Eh? Eh?
posted by languagehat at 5:11 PM on March 14, 2012
Only my lawyer and the goat know the answer to that.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:23 PM on March 14, 2012
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:23 PM on March 14, 2012
I can come down on either side of these prohibitive arguments, but I usually am going to argue to keep whatever people are upset about. My reasoning is usually, the offense lies with the offended, not the initial writer. I take a good faith approach that the person knew how to use the words they selected and also assume most people don't set out to be assholes.
I kind of hate the tl;dr where people are using to comment on something they couldn't be bothered to read. But that doesn't always stop people from commenting (nor should it). I made it 4 paragraphs into the post about the guy who broke his dick. 4. I've also bailed on human rights articles where they were written so graphically I felt like I was on the threshold of an abattoir. Sometimes a comment in the thread that says, "I got his point after 14 pages and it went on for another 39?" is enough to make me realize I am skipping this one.
When a person makes a long comment, then adds a tl;dr tagline I will often read that to decide if I want to even bother. I'm all in favor of constructive criticism, but if your manifesto on the ills of Obama ends with tl;dr: Obama sucks, amitire? I'm going to take a pass and I'll thank you for the summary that prevented me from needing to wade into that crap.
I think just like everything people get upset about has its place. I have had my opinion changed on this over the years. Like you'll never see me making a rape joke. Even if you pull it off and manage to come up with the world's first funny rape joke, what have you accomplished? There was a time where I would have probably argued that the joke would need to be taken in context, that it was just a joke, that no one was hurt, etc. That's how I am with most words. I hate a lot of them. You will never see me using some words that are fairly common. I sometimes feel prudish and like I have a case of the vapors when certain words come up.
tl;dr lands on my radar, but I think for the most part that I actually like it. Sure, people can be assholish about it, but I doubt taking this away from them will change how they post.
posted by cjorgensen at 5:42 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I kind of hate the tl;dr where people are using to comment on something they couldn't be bothered to read. But that doesn't always stop people from commenting (nor should it). I made it 4 paragraphs into the post about the guy who broke his dick. 4. I've also bailed on human rights articles where they were written so graphically I felt like I was on the threshold of an abattoir. Sometimes a comment in the thread that says, "I got his point after 14 pages and it went on for another 39?" is enough to make me realize I am skipping this one.
When a person makes a long comment, then adds a tl;dr tagline I will often read that to decide if I want to even bother. I'm all in favor of constructive criticism, but if your manifesto on the ills of Obama ends with tl;dr: Obama sucks, amitire? I'm going to take a pass and I'll thank you for the summary that prevented me from needing to wade into that crap.
I think just like everything people get upset about has its place. I have had my opinion changed on this over the years. Like you'll never see me making a rape joke. Even if you pull it off and manage to come up with the world's first funny rape joke, what have you accomplished? There was a time where I would have probably argued that the joke would need to be taken in context, that it was just a joke, that no one was hurt, etc. That's how I am with most words. I hate a lot of them. You will never see me using some words that are fairly common. I sometimes feel prudish and like I have a case of the vapors when certain words come up.
tl;dr lands on my radar, but I think for the most part that I actually like it. Sure, people can be assholish about it, but I doubt taking this away from them will change how they post.
posted by cjorgensen at 5:42 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
We dig TV ,we dig remote control, we dig the Furry Freak Brothers and the Twilight Zone, we dig Marvel and D.C., we dig Run-DMC, we dig Renegade Soundwave and... AC/DC!
I have no idea what you’re going on about, but Alan Moore knows the score.
posted by bongo_x at 5:56 PM on March 14, 2012
I have no idea what you’re going on about, but Alan Moore knows the score.
posted by bongo_x at 5:56 PM on March 14, 2012
When used about an article or something in the FPP, it's insulting and being tempted to write it in a comment means you just should regard that particular FPP thread as something to skip altogether. We get it. You don't like to read long things. A lot of other people do, and it's the equivalent of "your favorite band sucks" as a hit-and-run comment.
When used to summarize your own writing, it's deprecating your own (assumedly) well crafted comment and implies that you really didn't need to write all that stuff to begin with, because all you were really doing was blowing-hard when you could have made your point in a single pithy statement. Don't use it. Either own what you've spent all that time writing, or don't bother writing that stuff you're just going to turn into a gloss anyway.
That said, the second is merely a style pointer, and I don't give a fuck what people write. Sometimes tl;dr summaries at the end of an essay offer an interesting twist to what I thought I had just read in a way which changes my perceptions. Sometimes I skip long comments and if they have a tl;dr I take that as a summary and don't bother reading the preceding 20 paragraphs of text.
I just try not to use it personally, because in case 1, it's a stupid comment to make, and in case 2, it feels like I'm announcing that nothing that I just typed actually has value.
Placing use of it under moratorium, however, is an idea that should be ignored and people should continue to do as they please.
posted by hippybear at 6:35 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
When used to summarize your own writing, it's deprecating your own (assumedly) well crafted comment and implies that you really didn't need to write all that stuff to begin with, because all you were really doing was blowing-hard when you could have made your point in a single pithy statement. Don't use it. Either own what you've spent all that time writing, or don't bother writing that stuff you're just going to turn into a gloss anyway.
That said, the second is merely a style pointer, and I don't give a fuck what people write. Sometimes tl;dr summaries at the end of an essay offer an interesting twist to what I thought I had just read in a way which changes my perceptions. Sometimes I skip long comments and if they have a tl;dr I take that as a summary and don't bother reading the preceding 20 paragraphs of text.
I just try not to use it personally, because in case 1, it's a stupid comment to make, and in case 2, it feels like I'm announcing that nothing that I just typed actually has value.
Placing use of it under moratorium, however, is an idea that should be ignored and people should continue to do as they please.
posted by hippybear at 6:35 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm going to repeat something I said in this thread from a little over a year ago that reiterates the way I feel about tl;dr:
I don't see why the tl;dr part can't be put about the fold... only without "tl;dr". Isn't that just a summary of the whole question? Why do I have to skim the whole question to find that part?
I <3 Meatbomb (Hai, did you get my pretty mail?), and I believe that we should all stop using tl;dr because it's dumb. Summarize your question above the fold, and use "more inside" for the longer explanation.
posted by two lights above the sea at 6:55 PM on March 14, 2012
I don't see why the tl;dr part can't be put about the fold... only without "tl;dr". Isn't that just a summary of the whole question? Why do I have to skim the whole question to find that part?
I <3 Meatbomb (Hai, did you get my pretty mail?), and I believe that we should all stop using tl;dr because it's dumb. Summarize your question above the fold, and use "more inside" for the longer explanation.
posted by two lights above the sea at 6:55 PM on March 14, 2012
I like it tl;dr. Having it at the end is a way of recapping the key points to people who have already read it, and if you're iffy about reading a comment that has a lot of exposition, you can check for it at the end in advance to get a little better handle on whether the comment is worth your time.
It might be addressed to points made that you're not particularly concerned about, or summarize a wordy AskMe question that you're not quite sure you're in a position to comment on.
And its self-deprecating tone avoids any implication that the reader lacks comprehension skills or is being lazy for using it either of these ways.
posted by alphanerd at 7:47 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
It might be addressed to points made that you're not particularly concerned about, or summarize a wordy AskMe question that you're not quite sure you're in a position to comment on.
And its self-deprecating tone avoids any implication that the reader lacks comprehension skills or is being lazy for using it either of these ways.
posted by alphanerd at 7:47 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
If I see a wall of text it is very unlikely I am reading it. I go 'OMG wall of text. *page down*
I find that logorrhea is the enemy of clarity, particularly wth regards to AskMe questions.
Furthermore, I have the attention span of a boll weevil.
posted by By The Grace of God at 8:09 PM on March 14, 2012
I find that logorrhea is the enemy of clarity, particularly wth regards to AskMe questions.
Furthermore, I have the attention span of a boll weevil.
posted by By The Grace of God at 8:09 PM on March 14, 2012
the tl;dr and the "special snowflake" things are used so often on this site, there's no way to stop people from using them.
I had never heard of either of those phrases before I signed up. I thought it was a metafilter "thing".
Also, the tl; dr is really useful in Askmefi, because often people use the post to explain a complicated problem, and then add the tl;dr at the end to express their question in the most concise way they can. Since when is summarizing something "anti-intellectual"? And I get that people aren't supposed to post stuff that is just plain stupid, but for the most part the Askme's are used by people looking for advice and explaining their issues in their own terms. There's no "admission requirements" or "entrance test" for posting here, but maybe you'd be happier if there was one.
posted by costanza at 8:20 PM on March 14, 2012
I had never heard of either of those phrases before I signed up. I thought it was a metafilter "thing".
Also, the tl; dr is really useful in Askmefi, because often people use the post to explain a complicated problem, and then add the tl;dr at the end to express their question in the most concise way they can. Since when is summarizing something "anti-intellectual"? And I get that people aren't supposed to post stuff that is just plain stupid, but for the most part the Askme's are used by people looking for advice and explaining their issues in their own terms. There's no "admission requirements" or "entrance test" for posting here, but maybe you'd be happier if there was one.
posted by costanza at 8:20 PM on March 14, 2012
I for one unquestioningly accept the implication that Meatbomb posted with no trace of irony and sincerely did not know he's not mod and/or honestly believes he has real authority.
tl;dr: i'm too thick to draw breath
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:26 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
tl;dr: i'm too thick to draw breath
posted by George_Spiggott at 8:26 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
box: "That's the thing about being a [fake] mod--people aren't always sure whether you're speaking ex cathedra."
I always use organ music to let people know when I'm speaking ex cathedra.
posted by arcticseal at 8:44 PM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
I always use organ music to let people know when I'm speaking ex cathedra.
posted by arcticseal at 8:44 PM on March 14, 2012 [2 favorites]
You, arcticseal, are the true primitive, primitive as a gothic spire.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:07 PM on March 14, 2012
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 9:07 PM on March 14, 2012
We get it. You don't like to read long things. A lot of other people do
Amen, and in fact it's one reason I'd rather hang out on MetaFilter than any other content-aggreggating site with comments. People here write well, construct arguments well, and often have unique styles that make their writing worth reading.
I get that some people prefer things to be more pithy, and that's fine, but there's nothing objectively wrong with or bad about long comments. If you choose to scan or skip certain comments, and I certainly do, that's fine, but it's not something I can blame others' writing for.
I rarely skip comments because they're long - I like to read - but often if I open a thread and see a long 20- or 30-comment stretch of short one- and two-liners, to me that signals "nothing is being said here" and I'll zoom right by them.
So, to each their own, and though I agree it's flip and unnecessary I kind of glaze over and ignore it. I'd stake "cool story bro" on an anthill long before tl;dr.
posted by Miko at 9:10 PM on March 14, 2012
Amen, and in fact it's one reason I'd rather hang out on MetaFilter than any other content-aggreggating site with comments. People here write well, construct arguments well, and often have unique styles that make their writing worth reading.
I get that some people prefer things to be more pithy, and that's fine, but there's nothing objectively wrong with or bad about long comments. If you choose to scan or skip certain comments, and I certainly do, that's fine, but it's not something I can blame others' writing for.
I rarely skip comments because they're long - I like to read - but often if I open a thread and see a long 20- or 30-comment stretch of short one- and two-liners, to me that signals "nothing is being said here" and I'll zoom right by them.
So, to each their own, and though I agree it's flip and unnecessary I kind of glaze over and ignore it. I'd stake "cool story bro" on an anthill long before tl;dr.
posted by Miko at 9:10 PM on March 14, 2012
Meatbomb, this and your last Metatalk post kind of surprised me. Being all control-freaky doesn't seem like your style.
posted by jayder at 9:24 PM on March 14, 2012
posted by jayder at 9:24 PM on March 14, 2012
TILDAR FOREVA!!
posted by jeffamaphone at 10:19 PM on March 14, 2012
posted by jeffamaphone at 10:19 PM on March 14, 2012
Some of the neverending walls of text comment responders (you know who you are) are just as obnoxious. If you're going to write a 12 page tome of a comment without a tl;dr summary, it better be really awesome or it's going to get skipped over. GYOB, etc.
posted by 1000monkeys at 10:35 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by 1000monkeys at 10:35 PM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'll take walls of well-thought-out text over favorite-grubbing one-liners and pointless snark any day.
posted by dunkadunc at 10:56 PM on March 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by dunkadunc at 10:56 PM on March 14, 2012 [5 favorites]
You know what else is too long, you didn't read it, and you can choke on it?
posted by obiwanwasabi at 2:02 AM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by obiwanwasabi at 2:02 AM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Jersey Mike's Party Sub?
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:26 AM on March 15, 2012
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 3:26 AM on March 15, 2012
this thread is kind of long
can anyone summarize it for me
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 3:52 AM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
can anyone summarize it for me
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 3:52 AM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
@FAMOUS MONSTER do you have an opening for a frankenstine, are you a non-discriminatory establishment
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 3:55 AM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by This, of course, alludes to you at 3:55 AM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'll take walls of well-thought-out text over favorite-grubbing one-liners and pointless snark any day.
I came to a wall
of well-thought-out text
and I thought to myself
"hey, I'll read this next!"
but then was diverted
by some pointless snark
then looked out my window
outside to the park
saw a pretty young girl
sitting there on the grass
and I thought
"man, I oughtta get up off my ass
and go down to the park"
which I did, while a-thinking:
"maybe I should bring something
that she might like drinking"
then I thought to myself:
"am I oversexed?"
but forgot all about
that well-thought-out text
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:09 AM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I came to a wall
of well-thought-out text
and I thought to myself
"hey, I'll read this next!"
but then was diverted
by some pointless snark
then looked out my window
outside to the park
saw a pretty young girl
sitting there on the grass
and I thought
"man, I oughtta get up off my ass
and go down to the park"
which I did, while a-thinking:
"maybe I should bring something
that she might like drinking"
then I thought to myself:
"am I oversexed?"
but forgot all about
that well-thought-out text
posted by flapjax at midnite at 4:09 AM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
This, of course, alludes to you: @FAMOUS MONSTER do you have an opening for a frankenstine, are you a non-discriminatory establishment
Dude, what's going on with your comments here? How come you drop these short, random sentences without punctuation or any grammar, really, all over the site? And that @ thing... why? I seriously don't get it. There are plenty of websites out there that take no issue with these sort of lazy conventions.
posted by gman at 4:25 AM on March 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Dude, what's going on with your comments here? How come you drop these short, random sentences without punctuation or any grammar, really, all over the site? And that @ thing... why? I seriously don't get it. There are plenty of websites out there that take no issue with these sort of lazy conventions.
posted by gman at 4:25 AM on March 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Goddamnit, I'm starting my morning off by agreeing with gman. Not a good sign for the day.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:11 AM on March 15, 2012
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 5:11 AM on March 15, 2012
Sure, perhaps, just maybe, the whole td;dr thing is played out. Maybe.
But there is a much more sinister crime afoot, and that is that us antipodes mefis tend to miss out on the fun of meta threads like this. So:
New Directive: All of the world now runs on Australian Eastern Standard Time. (Sorry West Australians, and our kiwi friends as well, you'll get use to it. As will the rest of you.)
Man, changing the world for the better is really actually kind of easy! Anyway, goodnight, I'll see you all in the morning - that would be ~ 6-6:30 on UTC+11 (it's daylight savings time here, don't forget to put your clocks back an hour on April 1!)
posted by Hello, I'm David McGahan at 5:16 AM on March 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
But there is a much more sinister crime afoot, and that is that us antipodes mefis tend to miss out on the fun of meta threads like this. So:
New Directive: All of the world now runs on Australian Eastern Standard Time. (Sorry West Australians, and our kiwi friends as well, you'll get use to it. As will the rest of you.)
Man, changing the world for the better is really actually kind of easy! Anyway, goodnight, I'll see you all in the morning - that would be ~ 6-6:30 on UTC+11 (it's daylight savings time here, don't forget to put your clocks back an hour on April 1!)
posted by Hello, I'm David McGahan at 5:16 AM on March 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Dude, what's going on with your comments here?
I am always rather entertained by the fact that the username contains all the punctuation and capital letters that the comments lack.
posted by elizardbits at 5:54 AM on March 15, 2012
I am always rather entertained by the fact that the username contains all the punctuation and capital letters that the comments lack.
posted by elizardbits at 5:54 AM on March 15, 2012
My sincere thanks to Meatbomb for reminding me not to get upset about trivialities.
posted by hat_eater at 6:05 AM on March 15, 2012
posted by hat_eater at 6:05 AM on March 15, 2012
tl;dr: From this day on, the official language of MetaFilter will be Swedish. Silence! In addition to that, all citizens will be required to change their underwear every half-hour. Underwear will be worn on the outside so we can check. Furthermore, all children under 16 years old are now... 16 years old!
posted by .kobayashi. at 6:13 AM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by .kobayashi. at 6:13 AM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipiscing elit. Morbi scelerisque sem in ligula euismod ac tincidunt turpis lobortis. Aenean laoreet viverra erat, id eleifend augue ultricies et. Sed vulputate urna a dolor sodales at varius dolor venenatis. Vestibulum euismod ipsum vel metus facilisis hendrerit in sed turpis. Aenean luctus cursus risus, sit amet accumsan tortor aliquam et. Duis tincidunt urna in magna cursus dapibus. Duis ut condimentum mauris. Vestibulum sem turpis, molestie vel interdum non, pellentesque vel felis. Suspendisse eu sem sapien, ut mattis augue. Aliquam at ante risus, sit amet convallis libero. Donec semper velit et odio tincidunt facilisis. In elementum nunc nec dolor tincidunt et adipiscing elit luctus. Nam a volutpat mauris.
Donec rutrum nulla vitae lectus semper interdum. Nam ullamcorper libero vel mauris varius sed condimentum ipsum pellentesque. Vivamus nec sem felis. Donec ut dui metus. Fusce blandit malesuada nibh pellentesque cursus. Maecenas id fermentum nisi. Praesent libero sapien, aliquet eget commodo sit amet, congue et augue. Cras vulputate elementum faucibus.
Nam eu varius mauris. Sed a ornare mauris. Sed interdum ornare vulputate. Morbi in felis diam. Donec hendrerit egestas libero, eget sagittis massa ultricies eu. Vivamus consequat mauris eu odio sagittis suscipit vel eget nunc. Integer cursus, ipsum vitae consectetur pretium, sapien quam ullamcorper urna, ut feugiat dui diam quis dui. Vivamus sollicitudin, odio vitae adipiscing iaculis, nulla dui fermentum tortor, venenatis semper ante tortor sed massa. Sed tempor nunc sit amet mauris tempor ac bibendum lacus consequat. Morbi euismod mi id tellus dignissim accumsan. Sed lobortis aliquam ipsum, vitae pulvinar leo auctor sed. Duis facilisis vulputate velit, laoreet vehicula ipsum feugiat ac.
tl;dr - Yey! I've used my first tl;dr! I should write abstracts more often even if I dislike the ; in tl;dr.
posted by jeffburdges at 6:24 AM on March 15, 2012
Donec rutrum nulla vitae lectus semper interdum. Nam ullamcorper libero vel mauris varius sed condimentum ipsum pellentesque. Vivamus nec sem felis. Donec ut dui metus. Fusce blandit malesuada nibh pellentesque cursus. Maecenas id fermentum nisi. Praesent libero sapien, aliquet eget commodo sit amet, congue et augue. Cras vulputate elementum faucibus.
Nam eu varius mauris. Sed a ornare mauris. Sed interdum ornare vulputate. Morbi in felis diam. Donec hendrerit egestas libero, eget sagittis massa ultricies eu. Vivamus consequat mauris eu odio sagittis suscipit vel eget nunc. Integer cursus, ipsum vitae consectetur pretium, sapien quam ullamcorper urna, ut feugiat dui diam quis dui. Vivamus sollicitudin, odio vitae adipiscing iaculis, nulla dui fermentum tortor, venenatis semper ante tortor sed massa. Sed tempor nunc sit amet mauris tempor ac bibendum lacus consequat. Morbi euismod mi id tellus dignissim accumsan. Sed lobortis aliquam ipsum, vitae pulvinar leo auctor sed. Duis facilisis vulputate velit, laoreet vehicula ipsum feugiat ac.
tl;dr - Yey! I've used my first tl;dr! I should write abstracts more often even if I dislike the ; in tl;dr.
posted by jeffburdges at 6:24 AM on March 15, 2012
No-one shall ever wear a flat cap or a beret ever again!
posted by h00py at 6:27 AM on March 15, 2012
posted by h00py at 6:27 AM on March 15, 2012
it better be really awesome or it's going to get skipped over
So be it; this doesn't bother me. If someone skips it, fine. If they skip and then try to add to the thread with some observation that duplicates or totally misses something important that was in the long comment, they look like they're not paying attention. 'Cause they aren't.
As the long commenter, there's no negative for me to someone skipping my comment - only potentially embarrassment and ignorance of part of the discussion for the person doing the skipping.
posted by Miko at 6:27 AM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
So be it; this doesn't bother me. If someone skips it, fine. If they skip and then try to add to the thread with some observation that duplicates or totally misses something important that was in the long comment, they look like they're not paying attention. 'Cause they aren't.
As the long commenter, there's no negative for me to someone skipping my comment - only potentially embarrassment and ignorance of part of the discussion for the person doing the skipping.
posted by Miko at 6:27 AM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
gman: Dude, what's going on with your comments here? How come you drop these short, random sentences without punctuation or any grammar, really, all over the site? And that @ thing... "
Wow. gman, I thought you were joking. And then I looked at the user's post history.
... holy shit, TOCATY is the new horse_ebooks!!
posted by barnacles at 6:34 AM on March 15, 2012
Wow. gman, I thought you were joking. And then I looked at the user's post history.
... holy shit, TOCATY is the new horse_ebooks!!
posted by barnacles at 6:34 AM on March 15, 2012
Sometimes a flip comment or jolly post doesn't necessarily deserve a poe-faced multi-paragraph treatise on how people should think about things. I scroll past the ones that don't interest me because that is an easy thing to do. I have no problem with a tl;dr though, so I'm just commenting for the sake of it. Hi there!
On preview: that wasn't in response to what you said, Miko.
posted by h00py at 6:34 AM on March 15, 2012
On preview: that wasn't in response to what you said, Miko.
posted by h00py at 6:34 AM on March 15, 2012
I find that long windedness often indicates poor writing ability. Brevity is a virtue and a skill.
I therefore try removing stuff once I notice my comment growing too long. I often switch into <small> or make footnotes for text that's slightly afield, which splits the comment's core from stuff some may consider superfluous.
I always switch into crazy fast skimming mode whenever larger comments come along, only dropping back into regular skimming if the comment looks particularly. And long comments that start sounding repetitive when skimming get spacebar skipped.
posted by jeffburdges at 6:44 AM on March 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I therefore try removing stuff once I notice my comment growing too long. I often switch into <small> or make footnotes for text that's slightly afield, which splits the comment's core from stuff some may consider superfluous.
I always switch into crazy fast skimming mode whenever larger comments come along, only dropping back into regular skimming if the comment looks particularly. And long comments that start sounding repetitive when skimming get spacebar skipped.
posted by jeffburdges at 6:44 AM on March 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
jeffburdges - I tend to be long winded, but I don't think it relates to poor writing ability.
I'm fairly conscious that, for complex topics, a brief statement can easily be taken in the wrong context and twisted about completely devoid of its original scope or intention. So I typically try to head those off by offering the obvious counter-arguments or explainations that I can see would result coming from someone who is going to be a devil's advocate, either through sheer ignorance and bullheadness or because they are anal rententive, or just naturally argumentative.
So, especially for complex, involved topics, tl;dr just indicates the person doesn't grasp those complexities, or has no desire to comprehend the other side's path of reasoning, even if they don't agree with it.
Though, I still don't like tl;dr or 'snowflake details' for simple reasons. tl;dr sits on the same list with me as lol, 'r u there?' 'ianyl' and al those shorthand texting-related annoyances because I'm a crotchety old man that thinks kids today should use proper English in written and spoken form.
Snowflake details I just never 'got'. To me it's the same thing as the 'more inside' tag, so repetitive and grating.
Though, I agree being able to convey a point briefly is an excellent skill, and when applicable, highly desired.
posted by rich at 6:59 AM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm fairly conscious that, for complex topics, a brief statement can easily be taken in the wrong context and twisted about completely devoid of its original scope or intention. So I typically try to head those off by offering the obvious counter-arguments or explainations that I can see would result coming from someone who is going to be a devil's advocate, either through sheer ignorance and bullheadness or because they are anal rententive, or just naturally argumentative.
So, especially for complex, involved topics, tl;dr just indicates the person doesn't grasp those complexities, or has no desire to comprehend the other side's path of reasoning, even if they don't agree with it.
Though, I still don't like tl;dr or 'snowflake details' for simple reasons. tl;dr sits on the same list with me as lol, 'r u there?' 'ianyl' and al those shorthand texting-related annoyances because I'm a crotchety old man that thinks kids today should use proper English in written and spoken form.
Snowflake details I just never 'got'. To me it's the same thing as the 'more inside' tag, so repetitive and grating.
Though, I agree being able to convey a point briefly is an excellent skill, and when applicable, highly desired.
posted by rich at 6:59 AM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Scanning is an excellent reading strategy.
I agree with what rich said so well. Just as can lengthiness, brevity can be a virtue but may just as easily be a fault.
The proof is in the pudding. Good comments improve the discussion, regardless of their length.
posted by Miko at 7:09 AM on March 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I agree with what rich said so well. Just as can lengthiness, brevity can be a virtue but may just as easily be a fault.
The proof is in the pudding. Good comments improve the discussion, regardless of their length.
posted by Miko at 7:09 AM on March 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Also, it occurs to me that there is a difference between a structured comment with organized content and rambling. An organized comment allows a reader to understand the outlines of content without reading each and every word. Since I've learned how to read academic writing I've found the skill is applicable almost anywhere that people lean toward the use of something like a topic sentence, build an argument or description in consecutive discrete chunks, and wrap up with some final statement-making. The better the organization, the more you can glean from scanning.
That's quite different from "rambling," the disorganized, wandering brain-dump that sometimes happens. I don't always enjoy rambling, unless the writer is very entertaining. I do sometimes enjoy "I'm thinking right now and this is the trail of my thoughts as they progress in real time" comments, though.
So there are different kinds of lengthy writing and brief writing. I simply could never say "long good, short bad." It all depends.
posted by Miko at 7:17 AM on March 15, 2012
That's quite different from "rambling," the disorganized, wandering brain-dump that sometimes happens. I don't always enjoy rambling, unless the writer is very entertaining. I do sometimes enjoy "I'm thinking right now and this is the trail of my thoughts as they progress in real time" comments, though.
So there are different kinds of lengthy writing and brief writing. I simply could never say "long good, short bad." It all depends.
posted by Miko at 7:17 AM on March 15, 2012
And really, isn't that what's fundamentally good about this place? Very little thou shalt not on an official basis because sometimes good comments come in all kinds of formats. It's like, I can't just say every flat hat is ugly, because every now and then some milliner constructs a flat hat that doesn't make me want to vomit and so I can live with the existence of flat hats because there's always that exception (and of course I have to admit to the existence of people who have different tastes, which is sometimes difficult. Possible, but difficult, sometimes).
posted by h00py at 7:25 AM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by h00py at 7:25 AM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Was it Lincoln that once wrote: "I'm sorry this letter is so long. I didn't have time to make it shorter."
Sometimes we need to cut people some slack.
I'd rather have a brain dump with a clear and concise tl;dr summary than a brain dump on its own, or a person who has something useful to say not writing at all because they haven't the time to write a polished mini-article on the subject.
posted by philipy at 7:32 AM on March 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Sometimes we need to cut people some slack.
I'd rather have a brain dump with a clear and concise tl;dr summary than a brain dump on its own, or a person who has something useful to say not writing at all because they haven't the time to write a polished mini-article on the subject.
posted by philipy at 7:32 AM on March 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
Alright good morning everyone, time to get up! Yes I know it's still dark outside, we've got a bust day ahead of us. (If it's not dark outside where you are, just pretend that it is. Yes, that is another new directive)
posted by Hello, I'm David McGahan at 12:19 PM on March 15, 2012
posted by Hello, I'm David McGahan at 12:19 PM on March 15, 2012
I don't know about a bust day. Today is a Kegel day for me.
posted by Splunge at 12:37 PM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Splunge at 12:37 PM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
I find that if the day's gonna bust, I might as well just stay in bed.
posted by philipy at 12:40 PM on March 15, 2012
posted by philipy at 12:40 PM on March 15, 2012
Calling in sick on a Friday, Strewth, you've got this Australian thing down already!
posted by Hello, I'm David McGahan at 12:49 PM on March 15, 2012
posted by Hello, I'm David McGahan at 12:49 PM on March 15, 2012
We do not discriminate and are welcoming and accepting of all monsterstyles. Welcome aboard, my sewn-together comrade.
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 1:22 PM on March 15, 2012
posted by FAMOUS MONSTER at 1:22 PM on March 15, 2012
I always read "special snowflake details" as saying, "yes I'm yet another stupid loser with this incredibly common problem that's probably my own fault but I just can't figure it out" and I find that endearing.
So yay to my snowflake peeps! And why aren't there snowflake Peeps? They would be great for Easter in Alaska!
posted by Lesser Shrew at 1:22 PM on March 15, 2012
So yay to my snowflake peeps! And why aren't there snowflake Peeps? They would be great for Easter in Alaska!
posted by Lesser Shrew at 1:22 PM on March 15, 2012
I like the snowflakes metaphor.
We're all different, yet all much alike, and really rather wonderful.
posted by philipy at 1:32 PM on March 15, 2012
We're all different, yet all much alike, and really rather wonderful.
posted by philipy at 1:32 PM on March 15, 2012
If they skip and then try to add to the thread with some observation that duplicates or totally misses something important that was in the long comment, they look like they're not paying attention. 'Cause they aren't.
That seems narrow-minded. Some people participate disporportionately here. Some of them post exponentially more often and faster than most, and some of them post inevitably long, verbose comments. No disrespect intended to these particular users (honestly, I'm not criticizing here; examples just help) but Ivan Fyodorovich, Empath, and Delmoi are not the typical MetaFilter participants.
I disagree that choosing to skip certain comments equals "not paying attention." I think that attitude would make this site worse. It already sucks that certain threads will gather 200+ comments in a few weekday hours and consequently, I think (and feel, sometimes), discourage other users from joining the conversation when they see it later that evening or the next day. Compounding that effect with an explicit, "If you didn't read every comment, prepare to look foolish," will just make conversations here more insular.
MetaFilter has many, many users. I'd like to see it encourage more participation from the ones who don't spend all day refreshing it. Sure, in a perfect world, these unthreaded conversations would proceed along a straight and steady line, but given how the site actually works I think that expectation would place an unrealistic demand on users I'd like to hear more from.
posted by cribcage at 1:55 PM on March 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
That seems narrow-minded. Some people participate disporportionately here. Some of them post exponentially more often and faster than most, and some of them post inevitably long, verbose comments. No disrespect intended to these particular users (honestly, I'm not criticizing here; examples just help) but Ivan Fyodorovich, Empath, and Delmoi are not the typical MetaFilter participants.
I disagree that choosing to skip certain comments equals "not paying attention." I think that attitude would make this site worse. It already sucks that certain threads will gather 200+ comments in a few weekday hours and consequently, I think (and feel, sometimes), discourage other users from joining the conversation when they see it later that evening or the next day. Compounding that effect with an explicit, "If you didn't read every comment, prepare to look foolish," will just make conversations here more insular.
MetaFilter has many, many users. I'd like to see it encourage more participation from the ones who don't spend all day refreshing it. Sure, in a perfect world, these unthreaded conversations would proceed along a straight and steady line, but given how the site actually works I think that expectation would place an unrealistic demand on users I'd like to hear more from.
posted by cribcage at 1:55 PM on March 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
I think you make a good point about inclusiveness and what our expectations should be. But that observation has nothing to do with the length of comments. If there's not time to read a 200-comment thread in full, then there's not time to read either short or long comments.
I understand your concern, but I see users handling this by beginning their comment with something like "I haven't read every comment in the thread, but...." and that makes sense to me.
One of the things I like best about the site is that it does encourage conversation, more than it encourages "sign this comment book" or "write on the wall" sorts of comments. There are plenty of places for those kinds of participation. But conversation implies an exchange, in which what others say is taken aboard and recognized and built upon by what the next people say. Perhaps with some threads that becomes impossible - many threads are long, yes, but rather than 'refresh all day' I end up just following a few threads at a time which renders following a conversation possible.
It's true that not all users use the site like me, or need to, but the expectation that it's a conversation - instead of the more usual comment model where people all blurt out their own two cents in turn without respect to what others have said - is part of what makes reading the site satisfying.
posted by Miko at 2:15 PM on March 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I understand your concern, but I see users handling this by beginning their comment with something like "I haven't read every comment in the thread, but...." and that makes sense to me.
One of the things I like best about the site is that it does encourage conversation, more than it encourages "sign this comment book" or "write on the wall" sorts of comments. There are plenty of places for those kinds of participation. But conversation implies an exchange, in which what others say is taken aboard and recognized and built upon by what the next people say. Perhaps with some threads that becomes impossible - many threads are long, yes, but rather than 'refresh all day' I end up just following a few threads at a time which renders following a conversation possible.
It's true that not all users use the site like me, or need to, but the expectation that it's a conversation - instead of the more usual comment model where people all blurt out their own two cents in turn without respect to what others have said - is part of what makes reading the site satisfying.
posted by Miko at 2:15 PM on March 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
It isn't cute, it isn't funny, it's anti-intellectual and anti-reading.
"tl;dr" is a useful shorthand. Where would one get the impression that it's supposed to be cute, funny, intellectual, or indicative of any stance at all on reading?
Stop doing it right now.
No, thanks.
tl;dr: No
posted by coolguymichael at 2:52 PM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
"tl;dr" is a useful shorthand. Where would one get the impression that it's supposed to be cute, funny, intellectual, or indicative of any stance at all on reading?
Stop doing it right now.
No, thanks.
tl;dr: No
posted by coolguymichael at 2:52 PM on March 15, 2012 [1 favorite]
Egads, I just came to read Metafilter. I didn't expect some kind of Académie Française!
Nobody expects the Académie Française!
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:34 PM on March 15, 2012 [9 favorites]
Nobody expects the Académie Française!
posted by Joey Michaels at 5:34 PM on March 15, 2012 [9 favorites]
when the Internet annoys you so much, it's a sign that you should turn off the computer and read a book, or go outside, or play with the dog.
posted by theora55 at 5:50 PM on March 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by theora55 at 5:50 PM on March 15, 2012 [2 favorites]
I only have e-books, it's raining, and I don't have a dog.
posted by grouse at 5:58 PM on March 15, 2012
posted by grouse at 5:58 PM on March 15, 2012
<abstract>We could all adhere to a rigorous comment formatting specification.</abstract>
<body>We could instead establish an XML specification for metafilter comments that clearly disambiguates each comment's abstract, body, metatext, and metadata.</body>
<notes>We'd need to simplify entering XML tags of course.</notes>
<citations>Extensible Markup Language by Wikipedia</citations>
posted by jeffburdges at 6:08 PM on March 15, 2012
<body>We could instead establish an XML specification for metafilter comments that clearly disambiguates each comment's abstract, body, metatext, and metadata.</body>
<notes>We'd need to simplify entering XML tags of course.</notes>
<citations>Extensible Markup Language by Wikipedia</citations>
posted by jeffburdges at 6:08 PM on March 15, 2012
Go outside, find a wet dog and bring him home to dry. You get fresh air, a happy dog and a wet carpet.
posted by arcticseal at 8:22 PM on March 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by arcticseal at 8:22 PM on March 15, 2012 [3 favorites]
Go outside, find a wet dog and bring him home to dry. You get fresh air, a happy dog and a wet carpet.
posted by arcticseal at 8:22 PM on March 15 [2 favorites +] [!]
Well, that was an adventure. But the dog's fine, it was only a screen door, and I don't think the owners will really sue.
Still, note to self, don't take shit people say on the Internet so literally.
posted by From Bklyn at 5:46 AM on March 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by arcticseal at 8:22 PM on March 15 [2 favorites +] [!]
Well, that was an adventure. But the dog's fine, it was only a screen door, and I don't think the owners will really sue.
Still, note to self, don't take shit people say on the Internet so literally.
posted by From Bklyn at 5:46 AM on March 16, 2012 [3 favorites]
New Directive: All posts and comments will be limited to 140 characters. Problem solved.
posted by double block and bleed at 4:55 AM on March 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by double block and bleed at 4:55 AM on March 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
jeffburdges: <abstract>We could all adhere to a rigorous comment formatting specification.</abstract>
Not rigorous enough: missing xml declaration and no root element.
posted by double block and bleed at 5:03 AM on March 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
Not rigorous enough: missing xml declaration and no root element.
posted by double block and bleed at 5:03 AM on March 17, 2012 [1 favorite]
It appears you've cured me of my dislike for the ; in tl;dr, thanks Meatbomb!
posted by jeffburdges at 1:50 PM on March 19, 2012
posted by jeffburdges at 1:50 PM on March 19, 2012
It appears you've cured me of my dislike for the ; in tl;dr, thanks Meatbomb!
Come to think of it, "tl;dr" is far too many characters. Let's boil it down further.
posted by philipy at 8:11 AM on March 20, 2012
Come to think of it, "tl;dr" is far too many characters. Let's boil it down further.
posted by philipy at 8:11 AM on March 20, 2012
It appears you've cured me of my dislike for the ; in tl;dr, thanks Meatbomb!
Not me. Semicolons are ugly and stupid. Kurt Vonnegut hated 'em, and I hate 'em too.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:14 AM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
Not me. Semicolons are ugly and stupid. Kurt Vonnegut hated 'em, and I hate 'em too.
posted by flapjax at midnite at 8:14 AM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
I like semicolons. Also curly brackets, Greek letters and mathematical symbols.
But I don't like needless typing, or even needless hitting of a shift key.
I'm happy to reduce "tl;dr" to any two character sequence that doesn't require use of a shift key. Except "tl", which will always mean "tail" to me.
posted by philipy at 8:33 AM on March 20, 2012
But I don't like needless typing, or even needless hitting of a shift key.
I'm happy to reduce "tl;dr" to any two character sequence that doesn't require use of a shift key. Except "tl", which will always mean "tail" to me.
posted by philipy at 8:33 AM on March 20, 2012
How about just " ;d"
One left-hand home row character, one right-hand home row character
posted by muddgirl at 9:12 AM on March 20, 2012
One left-hand home row character, one right-hand home row character
posted by muddgirl at 9:12 AM on March 20, 2012
";d" is acceptable. In fact I'll accept both ";d" and "d;".
posted by philipy at 9:27 AM on March 20, 2012
posted by philipy at 9:27 AM on March 20, 2012
Or maybe s.s. for short/skimmer summary?
¿Anyone feel like discussing Spanish punctuation?
posted by jeffburdges at 9:55 AM on March 20, 2012
¿Anyone feel like discussing Spanish punctuation?
posted by jeffburdges at 9:55 AM on March 20, 2012
¿Anyone feel like discussing Spanish punctuation?
ñet.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:20 AM on March 20, 2012
ñet.
posted by Devils Rancher at 10:20 AM on March 20, 2012
s.s.
Unfortunate historical associations, but otherwise good.
¿Anyone feel like discussing Spanish punctuation?
The only thing I have to say about it is: Good thing I don't have to use it, because even more work than pressing the shift key.
posted by philipy at 10:50 AM on March 20, 2012
Unfortunate historical associations, but otherwise good.
¿Anyone feel like discussing Spanish punctuation?
The only thing I have to say about it is: Good thing I don't have to use it, because even more work than pressing the shift key.
posted by philipy at 10:50 AM on March 20, 2012
s.s.
Unfortunate historical associations, but otherwise good.
What do you have against Chevy Super Sports?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 2:43 PM on March 20, 2012
Unfortunate historical associations, but otherwise good.
What do you have against Chevy Super Sports?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 2:43 PM on March 20, 2012
Didn't Chevy invade Poland or something? [citation needed]
posted by philipy at 4:26 PM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by philipy at 4:26 PM on March 20, 2012 [1 favorite]
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
That said, taking against "tl;dr" as a short hand used on the site is similar to not liking "special snowflake". These short hand uses aren't going to go away.
posted by arcticseal at 4:09 AM on March 14, 2012 [1 favorite]