There may not be fifty ways but there are more than one. April 6, 2012 10:48 AM Subscribe
Ugh, I'm just going to say it: continuously posting to this breakup advice in Ask is lazy and more often than not it doesn't really fit the situation. I wish people would speak to the actual specific break-up someone is asking about or just stay out of it.
I know it is the most popular advice ever and comes from a person who genuinely seems like just a swell individual all around but it is not the universal solvent of bad relationships. It seems like really great advice for a relationship that has not been around all that long or gotten all that serious and has been okay but has some just fundamental incompatibility issues. It fails in relevance pretty dramatically if:
-There are actually particular, recognized issues that the relational conflict has been all about. You can focus on the person's positives all you want, it just makes it that much more nakedly obvious that you're ignoring the elephant in the room.
-It has been a serious long-term relationship that just requires more than "for whatever reason, I'm not feeling strongly enough about this"
-The other person is seriously resisting the breakup, in which case the whole "you deserve the fabulous life me dumping you is going to make possible" is likely to be just more twisting the knife if not a whole other avenue for the dumped party to argue from.
Basically if all people are going to do is drop that link without relating directly to the specifics of the question at hand I think they should just move on.
I know it is the most popular advice ever and comes from a person who genuinely seems like just a swell individual all around but it is not the universal solvent of bad relationships. It seems like really great advice for a relationship that has not been around all that long or gotten all that serious and has been okay but has some just fundamental incompatibility issues. It fails in relevance pretty dramatically if:
-There are actually particular, recognized issues that the relational conflict has been all about. You can focus on the person's positives all you want, it just makes it that much more nakedly obvious that you're ignoring the elephant in the room.
-It has been a serious long-term relationship that just requires more than "for whatever reason, I'm not feeling strongly enough about this"
-The other person is seriously resisting the breakup, in which case the whole "you deserve the fabulous life me dumping you is going to make possible" is likely to be just more twisting the knife if not a whole other avenue for the dumped party to argue from.
Basically if all people are going to do is drop that link without relating directly to the specifics of the question at hand I think they should just move on.
but it is not the universal solvent of bad relationships.
DTMFA is the universal solvent of bad relationships. Liquid or foam as appropriate.
posted by three blind mice at 11:00 AM on April 6, 2012 [6 favorites]
DTMFA is the universal solvent of bad relationships. Liquid or foam as appropriate.
posted by three blind mice at 11:00 AM on April 6, 2012 [6 favorites]
My first callout! I actually read it a few times, and thought about it, and thought that despite the fact that this couple had been together for a long time, the advice was almost exactly spot on, with the exception of the part I always hate (The " I don't want to be in your way and prevent you experiencing the fabulous life you will soon be living when you are with someone who is ready for you right now, and knowing that's not me I think its' best to free you up" I really, really hate -- you don't get to decide what would make my life better. But other people like it and I didn't think it seemed necessary to address it). But in this case:
- I don't think addressing the particular, recognized issues is necessary or good, the sentiment seemed exactly spot-on. The poster's title was "It's not you, it's not me, it's both of us", while the point of Miko's advice is "it's not you, it's not me, it's just not a fit, and I was able to see that more clearly when I had a few days away to think about us." The point is not that this anon thinks there's anything wrong with the person, and it's important to stress that, the point is that the differences are too much.
- I agree with you that the "for whatever reason" is the wrong phrasing, but I trust that anonymous can adapt that exact wording to "for the reasons you already know, I'm no longer feeling strongly enough about this"
- The other person resisting is exactly what makes this advice perfect. Again, I already said I hate, hate that line even in short relationships, but the advice that "make it clear that the decision isn't negotiable and you're not wishy-washy on it, but also make it clear that there's nothing wrong with them and there's a lot of really great stuff about them" is really, really important.
Sorry you disagree, I suppose I should have outlined those differences more clearly, but after repeated readings of both, I think the sentiment is exactly right.
posted by brainmouse at 11:01 AM on April 6, 2012
- I don't think addressing the particular, recognized issues is necessary or good, the sentiment seemed exactly spot-on. The poster's title was "It's not you, it's not me, it's both of us", while the point of Miko's advice is "it's not you, it's not me, it's just not a fit, and I was able to see that more clearly when I had a few days away to think about us." The point is not that this anon thinks there's anything wrong with the person, and it's important to stress that, the point is that the differences are too much.
- I agree with you that the "for whatever reason" is the wrong phrasing, but I trust that anonymous can adapt that exact wording to "for the reasons you already know, I'm no longer feeling strongly enough about this"
- The other person resisting is exactly what makes this advice perfect. Again, I already said I hate, hate that line even in short relationships, but the advice that "make it clear that the decision isn't negotiable and you're not wishy-washy on it, but also make it clear that there's nothing wrong with them and there's a lot of really great stuff about them" is really, really important.
Sorry you disagree, I suppose I should have outlined those differences more clearly, but after repeated readings of both, I think the sentiment is exactly right.
posted by brainmouse at 11:01 AM on April 6, 2012
I totally agree, OP.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:05 AM on April 6, 2012
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 11:05 AM on April 6, 2012
we've done this already.
miko says in that thread she thinks it's only good advice for early stage dating (she also says it pains her a little every time it comes up - which makes me sad for her that yet another metatalk thread is dedicated to it).
posted by nadawi at 11:08 AM on April 6, 2012 [10 favorites]
miko says in that thread she thinks it's only good advice for early stage dating (she also says it pains her a little every time it comes up - which makes me sad for her that yet another metatalk thread is dedicated to it).
posted by nadawi at 11:08 AM on April 6, 2012 [10 favorites]
I see where you're coming from, brainmouse, but I think your comment would have been more effective had you actually made those changes or at least addressed them rather than just linking to Miko's advice. It's cool to give her credit for her well-formulated thoughts, but when they're not totally perfect, they're not totally perfect, and you're not adding much to the conversation by just chucking them in there willy-nilly.
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 11:10 AM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 11:10 AM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
I didn't realize Miko thinks it's only good advice for early state dating -- I think the words need to be slightly different but the sentiment is correct for the end of long-term dating as well. The good breakups I've had followed a similar model to that, the bad ones were the ones that went a different way (especially with details or lots of discussion).
posted by brainmouse at 11:11 AM on April 6, 2012
posted by brainmouse at 11:11 AM on April 6, 2012
but it is not the universal solvent of bad relationships.
This is categorically untrue. Last week, the spousal unit and I were arguing about painting the dining room and Miko's advice was so spot on that no spots were made.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:17 AM on April 6, 2012 [11 favorites]
This is categorically untrue. Last week, the spousal unit and I were arguing about painting the dining room and Miko's advice was so spot on that no spots were made.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 11:17 AM on April 6, 2012 [11 favorites]
Meanwhile, if you're ever in the situation to need it, scarabic's advice is never off-target.
posted by griphus at 11:27 AM on April 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by griphus at 11:27 AM on April 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
I basically agree with the OP. On the other hand, when a comment is one of the all-time most popular comments on the whole site, and probably the single most popular comment about relationships, it's going to get linked in a thread where it's directly relevant. I don't see any way around that, and I don't think it's a big deal for that comment to be ubiquitous as a part of any AskMe discussion on how to break up with someone.
What would be a problem would be if that comment were considered to be the last word on the topic -- as in, Miko's already given the universal best answer, so anything else is beside the point and all we can do is keep linking to and seconding that advice. (I'm not saying that anyone is saying this.)
As I said in the previous MeTa, I'm not convinced that the Miko comment is the universally best approach; I'm not even convinced it was the best advice given in that thread, or even the best advice given by Miko in that thread.
posted by John Cohen at 11:28 AM on April 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
What would be a problem would be if that comment were considered to be the last word on the topic -- as in, Miko's already given the universal best answer, so anything else is beside the point and all we can do is keep linking to and seconding that advice. (I'm not saying that anyone is saying this.)
As I said in the previous MeTa, I'm not convinced that the Miko comment is the universally best approach; I'm not even convinced it was the best advice given in that thread, or even the best advice given by Miko in that thread.
posted by John Cohen at 11:28 AM on April 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
I see what you're saying about the "fabulous life" bit. But I think the only aspect of the Miko advice that needs serious changing between short and long term relationships is point (2); in a long term relationship it'd be a case of "I don't love you anymore" or "I don't love you enough" rather than "I can't see myself falling in love with you."
But while the wording would absolutely need to be changed for every special circumstance, I think what holds true --- the reason people keep bringing it up all the time --- is that the structure is sound, and the structure lays out a series of steps that let you hit all the right notes to deliver the message respectfully. Emphasize the good in the other person, make clear your reasons for breaking up and that they're not going to change, make clear that because the feelings aren't there not breaking up would actually be a disservice to them, emphasise again that this was a painful decision and you dislike causing them pain but that you're not going to change your mind. Then give them a chance to react.
The reasons for the breakup may change, but the rest is the same.
posted by Diablevert at 11:29 AM on April 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
But while the wording would absolutely need to be changed for every special circumstance, I think what holds true --- the reason people keep bringing it up all the time --- is that the structure is sound, and the structure lays out a series of steps that let you hit all the right notes to deliver the message respectfully. Emphasize the good in the other person, make clear your reasons for breaking up and that they're not going to change, make clear that because the feelings aren't there not breaking up would actually be a disservice to them, emphasise again that this was a painful decision and you dislike causing them pain but that you're not going to change your mind. Then give them a chance to react.
The reasons for the breakup may change, but the rest is the same.
posted by Diablevert at 11:29 AM on April 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
only 6 years for murder? that seems like a ringing endorsement of the advice.
posted by nadawi at 11:39 AM on April 6, 2012
posted by nadawi at 11:39 AM on April 6, 2012
My first callout!
For what it's worth although it obviously didn't take much effort to determine where I was coming from just now, I didn't link to the particular thread because I didn't mean this as a specific call-out but as a general gripe. I didn't think your use of the link was particularly egregious, it's just the one that inspired me to say something I've been thinking a long time.
we've done this already.
Hmm, I see I even favorited a contrary comment early in that one. Now that that thread has been recalled to my mind I see there is more discussion about the general applicability issue there than I'd thought at the time.
posted by nanojath at 11:57 AM on April 6, 2012
For what it's worth although it obviously didn't take much effort to determine where I was coming from just now, I didn't link to the particular thread because I didn't mean this as a specific call-out but as a general gripe. I didn't think your use of the link was particularly egregious, it's just the one that inspired me to say something I've been thinking a long time.
we've done this already.
Hmm, I see I even favorited a contrary comment early in that one. Now that that thread has been recalled to my mind I see there is more discussion about the general applicability issue there than I'd thought at the time.
posted by nanojath at 11:57 AM on April 6, 2012
I don't understand these callouts. The fact that you disagree with the advice some posters are giving seems like an issue for the thread, not for a separate MeTa. Just write: I disagree with the advice given, here's what I would do. People are entitled to give the advice they think right as long as it doesn't break the guidelines.
This is the second one of these "everyone else's advice is bad" callout in a week.
Also Miko is not the world arbiter of breakup advice. She's a person with some good ideas. That doesn't mean we always have to ape her words.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:02 PM on April 6, 2012 [6 favorites]
This is the second one of these "everyone else's advice is bad" callout in a week.
Also Miko is not the world arbiter of breakup advice. She's a person with some good ideas. That doesn't mean we always have to ape her words.
posted by Ironmouth at 12:02 PM on April 6, 2012 [6 favorites]
I think the point of this callout isn't bad advice, necessarily, but the sort copy-pasting of good advice for a situation that's similar, but not necessarily close enough for said advice to be totally relevant.
posted by griphus at 12:06 PM on April 6, 2012
posted by griphus at 12:06 PM on April 6, 2012
As I think I said last time we had a similar MeTa, I've pointed several non-mefite people to that advice, saying "adapt as needed" and they've been Thrilled with it. It may not be the Whole Answer to every "how do we break up" question, but as others have noted, the structure is good, and no sensible OP will think they're going to Literally use the words like an unalterable script. I agree that it's at least a valid part of any breakup advice answers, unless the OP mentions it and states the ways in which it doesn't work for their situation.
posted by ldthomps at 12:15 PM on April 6, 2012
posted by ldthomps at 12:15 PM on April 6, 2012
I don't know what it is, lately, but people seem simply unable to read the question and just answer it as posed. If you can't do either of the above, just move along. I've had to police my last few Ask Metafilter threads and it's getting really tiresome having to remind people that what is in the question has practically nothing to do with their answer.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:26 PM on April 6, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 12:26 PM on April 6, 2012 [5 favorites]
Totally agreed with the OP. Thank you for posting that.
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:27 PM on April 6, 2012
posted by roomthreeseventeen at 12:27 PM on April 6, 2012
...and no sensible OP will think they're going to Literally use the words like an unalterable script.
"Hey, listen, I think we need to talk."
"Oh, about what?"
"Well. I. We. Uh. Shit. Hang on."
(Whips out smartphone. Poke. Poke poke poke. Poke.)
"Ah. Here we go. There is certainly nothing wrong. With you. Nothing wrong with you. We are a great match in a lot of ways - you're smart, attractive, fun to be with, etcetera. List positive quali...oh wait hang on. Uh, you're pretty and also we both like yelling at each other at the top of our lungs."
"Wait, what? Positive what?"
"...but for whatever reason, I'm not feeling strongly. Er, strongly enough about this, and I know that it's important to have to me... Wait no, it's important to me to have that strong connection."
"'Connection'? What are you talking about?"
"I don't want to be in your way and prevent experiencing, sorry, prevent you experiencing the fabulous life you will soon be living. When you are with someone who is ready for you right now, and knowing that... er, knowing that's not me. I think its' best to free you up."
"'Fabulous life'? Are you reciting something?"
"I really really. Really. Really struggled with this decision because I, like you, don't want to hurt you. I mean I like you and I don't want to hurt you. I didn't make it lightly but I feel sure it's the right thing."
"Are you breaking up with me? Did you find some sort of breaking up script on the internet?"
"Do you have any questions? For me?"
"Leave now."
posted by griphus at 12:30 PM on April 6, 2012 [138 favorites]
"Hey, listen, I think we need to talk."
"Oh, about what?"
"Well. I. We. Uh. Shit. Hang on."
(Whips out smartphone. Poke. Poke poke poke. Poke.)
"Ah. Here we go. There is certainly nothing wrong. With you. Nothing wrong with you. We are a great match in a lot of ways - you're smart, attractive, fun to be with, etcetera. List positive quali...oh wait hang on. Uh, you're pretty and also we both like yelling at each other at the top of our lungs."
"Wait, what? Positive what?"
"...but for whatever reason, I'm not feeling strongly. Er, strongly enough about this, and I know that it's important to have to me... Wait no, it's important to me to have that strong connection."
"'Connection'? What are you talking about?"
"I don't want to be in your way and prevent experiencing, sorry, prevent you experiencing the fabulous life you will soon be living. When you are with someone who is ready for you right now, and knowing that... er, knowing that's not me. I think its' best to free you up."
"'Fabulous life'? Are you reciting something?"
"I really really. Really. Really struggled with this decision because I, like you, don't want to hurt you. I mean I like you and I don't want to hurt you. I didn't make it lightly but I feel sure it's the right thing."
"Are you breaking up with me? Did you find some sort of breaking up script on the internet?"
"Do you have any questions? For me?"
"Leave now."
posted by griphus at 12:30 PM on April 6, 2012 [138 favorites]
Meanwhile, if you're ever in the situation to need it, scarabic's advice is never off-target.
Speaking of advice that is pointed to a little too often... while that comment makes for a good read, the actual logistics of carrying it out are a nightmare. It is almost useless if the body is too heavy to lift (when was the last time you dragged 175+ pounds around the house?) and several of the steps, such as bleaching the tub, will leave obvious evidence that something out of the ordinary was going on.
In short scarabic skips step 0 -- location. Don't kill people in your or anyone else's house. Kill them far away from civilization, preferably at or near the location you want to bury the pieces. Bring along portable powertools if you want to follow the rest of the script.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:56 PM on April 6, 2012 [9 favorites]
Speaking of advice that is pointed to a little too often... while that comment makes for a good read, the actual logistics of carrying it out are a nightmare. It is almost useless if the body is too heavy to lift (when was the last time you dragged 175+ pounds around the house?) and several of the steps, such as bleaching the tub, will leave obvious evidence that something out of the ordinary was going on.
In short scarabic skips step 0 -- location. Don't kill people in your or anyone else's house. Kill them far away from civilization, preferably at or near the location you want to bury the pieces. Bring along portable powertools if you want to follow the rest of the script.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 12:56 PM on April 6, 2012 [9 favorites]
I recently had a non-mefite recommend Miko's comment to me when I was trying to do a pain-less breakup (TPS's answer is spot on BTW If you want to break up with him, break up with him. It is not compassionate to try to convince him that he should want to break up, too. That's about you wanting support from him; you have to take full responsibility for your own decision)
Anyway it was funny to have a friend quote Miko chapter and verse and to see her response when I told her I had actually met her. IRL
Hey, Miko! How's it going! Come back to Chicago soon!
posted by readery at 1:12 PM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Anyway it was funny to have a friend quote Miko chapter and verse and to see her response when I told her I had actually met her. IRL
Hey, Miko! How's it going! Come back to Chicago soon!
posted by readery at 1:12 PM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
Also, make sure the powertools are charged up and that you bring extra batteries. Do not use a car battery adapter for the powertools, they drain the car battery and this is the one time you really don't want to call a tow truck.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:15 PM on April 6, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 1:15 PM on April 6, 2012 [5 favorites]
Yeah, that (in)famous advice definitely left me feeling squirmy at the time it was first given, but I recognised that it was sincere and very possibly even appropriate for many people. I understand your issue with it, and I can't understand why it garnered that quite outrageous number of favourites. But then again my life history of relationship success isn't exactly stellar, so what do I know?
posted by Decani at 1:29 PM on April 6, 2012
posted by Decani at 1:29 PM on April 6, 2012
Decani, was that deliberately ambiguous? :-)
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:37 PM on April 6, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 1:37 PM on April 6, 2012 [6 favorites]
In short scarabic skips step 0 -- location. Don't kill people in your or anyone else's house. Kill them far away from civilization, preferably at or near the location you want to bury the pieces. Bring along portable powertools if you want to follow the rest of the script.
Distance is everything. This works two ways. You and victim want to be far away from others, and you also want to be far away from the victim.
I think Gerard Depardiu gave similar advice to his apprentice. Killing from far away is so much easier in all respects - logistics, psychology, evidence. The very best would be to have your victim fall into a mantrap that you created weeks prior, with you far far away with a solid alibi. Next best is you 1km away, with a good sniper rifle. Then a pistol, then a knofe or hands. The closer you are the easier it is for you to be tied to the event. Touching distance means there is all kinds of potential for messy forensic evidence - blood spatter, your own DNA on the victim, etc.
And ideally, if you are far from witnesses and you are also far from the actual victim, you just leave the corpse right where it is. Who the fuck wants to dispose of a body? That is messy hard work, and nothing says "I killed this guy" more than you methodically prepping his corpse for disposal.
posted by Meatbomb at 1:38 PM on April 6, 2012 [5 favorites]
Distance is everything. This works two ways. You and victim want to be far away from others, and you also want to be far away from the victim.
I think Gerard Depardiu gave similar advice to his apprentice. Killing from far away is so much easier in all respects - logistics, psychology, evidence. The very best would be to have your victim fall into a mantrap that you created weeks prior, with you far far away with a solid alibi. Next best is you 1km away, with a good sniper rifle. Then a pistol, then a knofe or hands. The closer you are the easier it is for you to be tied to the event. Touching distance means there is all kinds of potential for messy forensic evidence - blood spatter, your own DNA on the victim, etc.
And ideally, if you are far from witnesses and you are also far from the actual victim, you just leave the corpse right where it is. Who the fuck wants to dispose of a body? That is messy hard work, and nothing says "I killed this guy" more than you methodically prepping his corpse for disposal.
posted by Meatbomb at 1:38 PM on April 6, 2012 [5 favorites]
Basically if all people are going to do is drop that link without relating directly to the specifics of the question at hand I think they should just move on.
i agree that adding more than just a "previously" would be helpful to the OP. that said, if someone had not "previously-ed" miko's link a couple of years ago, i would not have known it existed. and i do think it is useful information for certain people's situations - and especially for people who like numbered/ordered/"bullet point" ways of analyzing a situation and organizing their thoughts. so the manner of using the link, and not the content itself, seems to be the "utility for an OP issue" for me.
posted by anya32 at 1:50 PM on April 6, 2012
i agree that adding more than just a "previously" would be helpful to the OP. that said, if someone had not "previously-ed" miko's link a couple of years ago, i would not have known it existed. and i do think it is useful information for certain people's situations - and especially for people who like numbered/ordered/"bullet point" ways of analyzing a situation and organizing their thoughts. so the manner of using the link, and not the content itself, seems to be the "utility for an OP issue" for me.
posted by anya32 at 1:50 PM on April 6, 2012
Tell Me No Lies: “Don't kill people in your or anyone else's house. Kill them far away from civilization...”
But what if civilization is the person you want to kill?
posted by koeselitz at 2:40 PM on April 6, 2012
But what if civilization is the person you want to kill?
posted by koeselitz at 2:40 PM on April 6, 2012
But what if civilization is the person you want to kill?
posted by drjimmy11 at 2:53 PM on April 6, 2012
"Dear AskMe, if I killed a way of life how should I go about disposing of its metaphorical body?"
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 2:53 PM on April 6, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 2:53 PM on April 6, 2012 [7 favorites]
Disposing of figurative dead bodies: that's where I'm a viking!
posted by griphus at 3:03 PM on April 6, 2012
posted by griphus at 3:03 PM on April 6, 2012
Yeah, scarabic's advice is fun but it is movie stuff. Here's advice that came straight from a homicide detective: Never move the body, even if it is in your own house. Leave it where it falls, go someplace else, clean up, come home and then (if you must) call the police. If you don't mind looking guilty you probably won't be found guilty.
posted by Bookhouse at 3:28 PM on April 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by Bookhouse at 3:28 PM on April 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
I still can't believe anybody ever broke up with Miko. Were they crazy?
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 3:36 PM on April 6, 2012 [14 favorites]
posted by Bunny Ultramod at 3:36 PM on April 6, 2012 [14 favorites]
http://questionablecontent.net/view.php?comic=1027
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 3:49 PM on April 6, 2012
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 3:49 PM on April 6, 2012
I don't know why people don't just do their killings in the Mojave, where the canyons and scavengers will do the clean up for you.
posted by small_ruminant at 4:05 PM on April 6, 2012
posted by small_ruminant at 4:05 PM on April 6, 2012
Come to think of it, I guess people already do that.
posted by small_ruminant at 4:05 PM on April 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by small_ruminant at 4:05 PM on April 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
Or here in Florida, with the swamps and...you know...gators.
posted by Gator at 4:10 PM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Gator at 4:10 PM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm glad this post devolved evolved into how best to take care of dead bodies.
posted by OsoMeaty at 4:33 PM on April 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by OsoMeaty at 4:33 PM on April 6, 2012 [2 favorites]
Last week, the spousal unit and I were arguing
Which one?
posted by desjardins at 4:42 PM on April 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
Which one?
posted by desjardins at 4:42 PM on April 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
Someone will mention Pastabagel's comment about sexy sex and the trilogy will be complete.
posted by desjardins at 4:49 PM on April 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by desjardins at 4:49 PM on April 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
> ... I can't understand why it garnered that quite outrageous number of favourites.
Well, everytime it comes up another 70 odd members hit the [+]. Ditching people comes up a lot on Metafilter.
It's OK to hit the [-], folks. It would be a kindness. I'm sure miko will move on.
posted by de at 4:52 PM on April 6, 2012
Well, everytime it comes up another 70 odd members hit the [+]. Ditching people comes up a lot on Metafilter.
It's OK to hit the [-], folks. It would be a kindness. I'm sure miko will move on.
posted by de at 4:52 PM on April 6, 2012
I will link to the sexy sex comment, it is a classic and I have not read it in a while!
posted by mlis at 5:14 PM on April 6, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by mlis at 5:14 PM on April 6, 2012 [6 favorites]
People should stop coming to AskMe for relationship advice and just go where everyone else goes: Country & Western songs.
posted by jonmc at 5:27 PM on April 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by jonmc at 5:27 PM on April 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
I get annoyed when that comment is excessively posted or linked to. But… so what?
posted by J. Wilson at 6:01 PM on April 6, 2012
posted by J. Wilson at 6:01 PM on April 6, 2012
*blink* When desjardins said Pastabagel, I assumed she was talking about the Boring men comment, which is also a classic.
posted by Melismata at 6:37 PM on April 6, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by Melismata at 6:37 PM on April 6, 2012 [4 favorites]
I've actually been thinking about that Pastabagel comment and I feel like it makes me a little uncomfortable. Not the content; I'm totally fine with that. My husband and I pretty frequently say to each other "Hey, look, that jogging girl has a sweaty midriff!" and I'm not particularly shocked by people imagining sex acts with strangers. I think I have three primary concerns:
1) It sets up all men as thinking like this. I think a lot of men probably DO (I know my husband does) but I don't really like when anything is presented as the One Right Way to be/think about something.
2) It sets women up as NOT thinking about this. I'll be honest, I think about stuff like that all the time; I'm not even particularly attracted to men (other than my husband, Stephen Colbert, and, for some reason, the character of Littlefinger in the Game of Thrones series even though I haven't read the books) and I still think about various scenarios involving men and women I encounter or see or whatever.
3) I think my biggest problem with stuff like this (and this comment is definitely not the most pernicious thing I've seen in this vein but it is an example) is that I feel like it puts women in a position where we have to say it's funny. In this case it IS funny, but I feel like there are a lot of things basically framed as "Women can't handle this!" and if you say you can't it means you're not good enough or not playing the game or something. This was my problem with the Man Show back when I was in high school; I remember a lot of women talking loudly about how funny they thought it was and getting the sense that they felt like they had to. I did it, certainly, because I wanted to show I could take a joke. I'm older and, if not more confident, at least less concerned about being liked, so I'm now comfortable saying "I have a problem with this" but I don't really like the way that, for many things, it feels like saying that you have a problem with them just proves that everyone's right about you and women have no sense of humor and you can't handle what men think so you shouldn't worry your pretty little head about it.
For the record, I DO think the comment is funny and interesting and I'm pretty sure I have at least a decent (if juvenile) sense of humor (when we go to Staples my husband has to keep an eye on me or I'll escape and type "696969696969" on all the calculators then cackle to myself), it's just that "But these women would never want to have the conversation that would ensue if men simply said what was on their minds" makes me feel like I have to say "I can handle that! I can totally handle that! I'm not one of THOSE women, those boring, 'insufferable hens'. Ahahaha I'm just one of the guys."
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 7:11 PM on April 6, 2012 [45 favorites]
1) It sets up all men as thinking like this. I think a lot of men probably DO (I know my husband does) but I don't really like when anything is presented as the One Right Way to be/think about something.
2) It sets women up as NOT thinking about this. I'll be honest, I think about stuff like that all the time; I'm not even particularly attracted to men (other than my husband, Stephen Colbert, and, for some reason, the character of Littlefinger in the Game of Thrones series even though I haven't read the books) and I still think about various scenarios involving men and women I encounter or see or whatever.
3) I think my biggest problem with stuff like this (and this comment is definitely not the most pernicious thing I've seen in this vein but it is an example) is that I feel like it puts women in a position where we have to say it's funny. In this case it IS funny, but I feel like there are a lot of things basically framed as "Women can't handle this!" and if you say you can't it means you're not good enough or not playing the game or something. This was my problem with the Man Show back when I was in high school; I remember a lot of women talking loudly about how funny they thought it was and getting the sense that they felt like they had to. I did it, certainly, because I wanted to show I could take a joke. I'm older and, if not more confident, at least less concerned about being liked, so I'm now comfortable saying "I have a problem with this" but I don't really like the way that, for many things, it feels like saying that you have a problem with them just proves that everyone's right about you and women have no sense of humor and you can't handle what men think so you shouldn't worry your pretty little head about it.
For the record, I DO think the comment is funny and interesting and I'm pretty sure I have at least a decent (if juvenile) sense of humor (when we go to Staples my husband has to keep an eye on me or I'll escape and type "696969696969" on all the calculators then cackle to myself), it's just that "But these women would never want to have the conversation that would ensue if men simply said what was on their minds" makes me feel like I have to say "I can handle that! I can totally handle that! I'm not one of THOSE women, those boring, 'insufferable hens'. Ahahaha I'm just one of the guys."
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 7:11 PM on April 6, 2012 [45 favorites]
I don't know why people don't just do their killings in the Mojave, where the canyons and scavengers will do the clean up for you.
Organic matter can take years to decompose in the Mojave, and desert scavengers aren't all that thorough. Still, DTMFA.
posted by eddydamascene at 7:25 PM on April 6, 2012
Organic matter can take years to decompose in the Mojave, and desert scavengers aren't all that thorough. Still, DTMFA.
posted by eddydamascene at 7:25 PM on April 6, 2012
I let civilization kill all my enemies. Sure it takes a bit longer, but so far nothing has been traced back to me.
posted by Ritchie at 7:39 PM on April 6, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by Ritchie at 7:39 PM on April 6, 2012 [6 favorites]
I agree with you, Mrs. Pterodactyl. It also sets men up in a way to feel like they have to agree -- "Yes! I am always think about the sex because I am a man and whenever I am quiet it's because the women should not know that I am thinking about the sex. Which I am doing all the time because I am a man and that is what we do."
I know there are lots of studies about sexuality all over that say all sorts of things, but most of the things I've read, though limited, have said that men and women think mostly equally about sex. I read articles a few years ago about how BOTH men and women have a temporary shut down of some brain function after sex, it wasn't limited to men. I think we're a bit socialized to believe all men are thinking about sex always and women would just be oh so shocked if we knew.
posted by sweetkid at 7:46 PM on April 6, 2012 [6 favorites]
I know there are lots of studies about sexuality all over that say all sorts of things, but most of the things I've read, though limited, have said that men and women think mostly equally about sex. I read articles a few years ago about how BOTH men and women have a temporary shut down of some brain function after sex, it wasn't limited to men. I think we're a bit socialized to believe all men are thinking about sex always and women would just be oh so shocked if we knew.
posted by sweetkid at 7:46 PM on April 6, 2012 [6 favorites]
I go straight for the restraining order. Sets the right tone I believe.
posted by mattoxic at 7:50 PM on April 6, 2012
posted by mattoxic at 7:50 PM on April 6, 2012
Thanks! I agree with this as well: "I think we're a bit socialized to believe all men are thinking about sex always and women would just be oh so shocked if we knew." I had this sufficiently ingrained in me in middle school/early high school that not only did I feel guilty for how, um, desirous I was, but I also felt HUGELY INADEQUATE because I felt like I was totally willing to fool around and no one wanted to fool around with me. What was actually going on was that I knew a lot of guys who were shy, or nice, or normal, or just weren't picking up on my "I'm available!" signals, but if you believe that all men are always just trying to get laid constantly all the time but none of them are interested in YOU then you feel like there must be something wrong with you, especially if you yourself think about sex ALL THE TIME as I suspect many teenage girls do.
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 8:24 PM on April 6, 2012 [22 favorites]
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 8:24 PM on April 6, 2012 [22 favorites]
Mrs. Pterodactyl, good points, all. I would just point out that the context the Pastabagel comment was made in. He was not riffing on how women would be shocked if only they could they could get a glimpse of what men think about, but rather, responding to a specific article in which a few women were quoted.
Thus he begins his comment:
"I guess Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus! LOL!
The problem is that the women quoted in the article, who are quite obviously insufferable hens, confuse men's conversation filters with being boring. But these women would never want to have the conversation that would ensue if men simply said what was on their minds. . ."
posted by mlis at 9:23 PM on April 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
Thus he begins his comment:
"I guess Men are from Mars and Women are from Venus! LOL!
The problem is that the women quoted in the article, who are quite obviously insufferable hens, confuse men's conversation filters with being boring. But these women would never want to have the conversation that would ensue if men simply said what was on their minds. . ."
posted by mlis at 9:23 PM on April 6, 2012 [3 favorites]
Yeah, I totally see that point, and I think part of the problem is that it makes this insidious; those women WERE "insufferable hens", but that means that the comment puts you in a position where it's easy to feel like "If I agree with these women/think like them, I'll be an insufferable hen too" (this is probably a logical fallacy of which I am unaware; I just call this general category "unfunny girl syndrome" because you don't want to be the unfunny girl/bitchy humorless woman).
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 9:58 PM on April 6, 2012 [7 favorites]
posted by Mrs. Pterodactyl at 9:58 PM on April 6, 2012 [7 favorites]
yeah, the "insufferable hens" line was unfortunate.
posted by mlis at 10:04 PM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mlis at 10:04 PM on April 6, 2012 [1 favorite]
That story is so weird, readery!
Come back to Chicago soon!
I will at my first opportunity. Y'all are wonderful!
posted by Miko at 6:32 AM on April 7, 2012
Come back to Chicago soon!
I will at my first opportunity. Y'all are wonderful!
posted by Miko at 6:32 AM on April 7, 2012
The Sufferable Hens is my pop-diva cover band name.
posted by Drastic at 6:59 AM on April 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by Drastic at 6:59 AM on April 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
Don't suffer the hens, Jens
posted by fleacircus at 7:10 AM on April 7, 2012
posted by fleacircus at 7:10 AM on April 7, 2012
But I hope that copy pasta making one's own words when applicable is perfectly acceptable
on other thoughts, I agree with the OP, find griphus adorable and dislike hens
posted by infini at 7:37 AM on April 7, 2012
on other thoughts, I agree with the OP, find griphus adorable and dislike hens
posted by infini at 7:37 AM on April 7, 2012
I was studying Spanish in Mexico once and was woken up every morning by an early rising rooster who apparently had too much caffeine in his system.
Thus I came to learn the Spanish phrases for "I wish to kill the rooster" and "The rooster must die."
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:05 AM on April 7, 2012 [2 favorites]
Thus I came to learn the Spanish phrases for "I wish to kill the rooster" and "The rooster must die."
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 9:05 AM on April 7, 2012 [2 favorites]
Mrs. P, if I could favorite this 100 times I would: "I think we're a bit socialized to believe all men are thinking about sex always and women would just be oh so shocked if we knew." I had this sufficiently ingrained in me in middle school/early high school that not only did I feel guilty for how, um, desirous I was, but I also felt HUGELY INADEQUATE because I felt like I was totally willing to fool around and no one wanted to fool around with me. What was actually going on was that I knew a lot of guys who were shy, or nice, or normal, or just weren't picking up on my "I'm available!" signals, but if you believe that all men are always just trying to get laid constantly all the time but none of them are interested in YOU then you feel like there must be something wrong with you, especially if you yourself think about sex ALL THE TIME as I suspect many teenage girls do.
Because if nothing else, here is the probable underpinning of all those AskMe's we get along the lines of "I'm pretty, smart and interesting, etc. etc. Why can't I get him to want me?" (True, this is often about relationships, not just sex, but if men are always up for sex then the corollary is that if he is horny but doesn't want sex with YOU, it's YOUR fault!) Or how about the AskMe's from guys who don't want casual sex or have a lower sex drive than their female SO's? Or the women whose husbands or SO's have a lower sex drive or have lost interest in sex?
Mrs. P's comment shows how pernicious this "men are always and indiscriminately horny" myth is.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:35 AM on April 7, 2012 [9 favorites]
Because if nothing else, here is the probable underpinning of all those AskMe's we get along the lines of "I'm pretty, smart and interesting, etc. etc. Why can't I get him to want me?" (True, this is often about relationships, not just sex, but if men are always up for sex then the corollary is that if he is horny but doesn't want sex with YOU, it's YOUR fault!) Or how about the AskMe's from guys who don't want casual sex or have a lower sex drive than their female SO's? Or the women whose husbands or SO's have a lower sex drive or have lost interest in sex?
Mrs. P's comment shows how pernicious this "men are always and indiscriminately horny" myth is.
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 9:35 AM on April 7, 2012 [9 favorites]
Thus I came to learn the Spanish phrases for "I wish to kill the rooster" and "The rooster must die."
No, no, no, you know he ain't gonna die.
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 12:00 PM on April 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
No, no, no, you know he ain't gonna die.
posted by Rube R. Nekker at 12:00 PM on April 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
Someone will mention Pastabagel's comment about sexy sex (desjardins)
Isn't it lemuria's comment about sexy sex?
posted by ocherdraco at 1:53 PM on April 7, 2012
Isn't it lemuria's comment about sexy sex?
posted by ocherdraco at 1:53 PM on April 7, 2012
I don't know why people don't just do their killings in the Mojave, where the canyons and scavengers will do the clean up for you.
Plus, stimpaks.
posted by The Whelk at 2:23 PM on April 7, 2012 [2 favorites]
Plus, stimpaks.
posted by The Whelk at 2:23 PM on April 7, 2012 [2 favorites]
Plus, there are sometimes dancing bikini girls inside the craggy rocks.
posted by Gator at 2:27 PM on April 7, 2012
posted by Gator at 2:27 PM on April 7, 2012
Pass that over here
posted by infini at 2:46 PM on April 7, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by infini at 2:46 PM on April 7, 2012 [2 favorites]
I still can't believe anybody ever broke up with Miko. Were they crazy?
Bunny Ultramod, There's certainly nothing wrong with here - she's smart, attractive, fun to be with, etc (list positive qualities), but he just didn't want to be in her way and preventing her experiencing the fabulous life she was soon to be living with someone who was ready for her right then.
Knowing that it wasn't not him, he thought it best to free free her up.
posted by ambrosen at 3:41 PM on April 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
Bunny Ultramod, There's certainly nothing wrong with here - she's smart, attractive, fun to be with, etc (list positive qualities), but he just didn't want to be in her way and preventing her experiencing the fabulous life she was soon to be living with someone who was ready for her right then.
Knowing that it wasn't not him, he thought it best to free free her up.
posted by ambrosen at 3:41 PM on April 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
IMO People need to accept that ending relationships is not going to be an enjoyable experience no matter what you do (unless the other person happens to feel the same way). In that case, there isn't really any relationship advice that can make it better Other then maybe trying to make sure it happens quickly (i.e. rip off the band aide)
posted by delmoi at 5:55 PM on April 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by delmoi at 5:55 PM on April 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
What if we create a tradition wherein in the event of a breakup both parties get bourbon and cupcakes. There is still the pain of ending a relationship, but it's soften by the promise of bourbon and cupcakes.
posted by The Whelk at 6:27 PM on April 7, 2012 [5 favorites]
posted by The Whelk at 6:27 PM on April 7, 2012 [5 favorites]
Man, I'd be gaming the shit out of that system, faux-breaking up all the time with my husband knowing we'd be back together in a week and I was just jonesin' for that sweetness.
posted by ifjuly at 6:50 PM on April 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by ifjuly at 6:50 PM on April 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
Little known fact: The hilarious Hollywood film "Think Like A Man" actually adapted its screenplay from that Pastabagel comment.
posted by drjimmy11 at 7:08 PM on April 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by drjimmy11 at 7:08 PM on April 7, 2012 [1 favorite]
It's never going to be enjoyable, but it doesn't have to be cruel, it doesn't have to be clumsy, and it doesn't have to be cold.
posted by Miko at 8:37 PM on April 7, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by Miko at 8:37 PM on April 7, 2012 [3 favorites]
that Pastabagel comment
Seriously guys, am I going crazy? That comment was not written by Pastabagel.
posted by ocherdraco at 9:21 PM on April 7, 2012
Seriously guys, am I going crazy? That comment was not written by Pastabagel.
posted by ocherdraco at 9:21 PM on April 7, 2012
Thank you, I was beginning to doubt my sanity, or at the very least my reading comprehension.
posted by ocherdraco at 9:38 PM on April 7, 2012
posted by ocherdraco at 9:38 PM on April 7, 2012
Sorry ocherdraco, I blame it on the bourbon and cupcakes.
posted by desjardins at 11:39 PM on April 7, 2012
posted by desjardins at 11:39 PM on April 7, 2012
recipes all the way down
posted by infini at 2:14 AM on April 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by infini at 2:14 AM on April 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
People should stop coming to AskMe for relationship advice and just go where everyone else goes: Country & Western songs.
I wouldn't be trotting Miko's advice out if I were breaking up with Loretta.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 3:29 AM on April 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
I wouldn't be trotting Miko's advice out if I were breaking up with Loretta.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 3:29 AM on April 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
I favourited that breakup advice before it became popular.
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:36 AM on April 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by UbuRoivas at 3:36 AM on April 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
Sorry ocherdraco, I blame it on the bourbon and cupcakes (desjardins)
Oh, well, that's perfectly fine then. Bourbon and cupcakes are a good reason to do just about anything.
posted by ocherdraco at 11:08 AM on April 8, 2012
Oh, well, that's perfectly fine then. Bourbon and cupcakes are a good reason to do just about anything.
posted by ocherdraco at 11:08 AM on April 8, 2012
This was my problem with the Man Show back when I was in high school; I remember a lot of women talking loudly about how funny they thought it was and getting the sense that they felt like they had to.
It should have been called The Tweaking Man Who Pulls Out His Wang On The Street Corner Show. 'Cause that's exactly how funny it was.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:42 AM on April 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
It should have been called The Tweaking Man Who Pulls Out His Wang On The Street Corner Show. 'Cause that's exactly how funny it was.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:42 AM on April 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
Reading Tell Me No Lies comment made me think, oddly, of Paul "Silly Fucking P" Sedaris.
posted by pxe2000 at 4:53 PM on April 8, 2012
posted by pxe2000 at 4:53 PM on April 8, 2012
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posted by rtha at 10:53 AM on April 6, 2012 [6 favorites]