Comments on: More Like Micro$oft Winblows

More Like Micro$oft Winblows

gilrain — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 07:10:15 -0800

This Windows 8 post seems to me to be editorializing via omission.

Its title and content suggest a very negative stance on Windows 8, and it only links to extremely negative reviews, when in fact there are plenty of other reviews from reputable sources which range from positive to measured. Why not link to a variety of opinions? Why not take a neutral stance in the post itself, at least?

By: dfriedman

dfriedman — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 07:10:50 -0800

So now we're politicizing software reviews?

By: muddgirl

muddgirl — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 07:11:34 -0800

The topic of the post was not "Windows 8." The topic of the post was "negative reviews of Windows 8."

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 07:12:21 -0800

There is nothing that says that posts need to look at both sides of any particular issue. The basic prosciption about editorializing is so that a thread doesn't get pre-fucked with some sort of GRAR-y presentation in a topic where people are likely to holler at each other and make things toxic on the site. A post about how people don't like Windows 8 is not that sort of post, it just may also not be a thread where people have an open discussion about W8.

That said, we spoke to a few people in that thread who seem to be using it as their personal soapbox and told them not to do that.

By: kavasa

kavasa — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 07:12:49 -0800

I guess my reaction is "meh."

FPP writers link what they want to link.

If you want to link to more neutral or positive reactions to Win8, round 'em up and put 'em in a comment. I probably wouldn't post your own FPP about it at this point.

By: gilrain

gilrain — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 07:14:56 -0800

Hm, okay. That makes sense. It seems to me that a post on the topic of "everyone seems to hate Windows 8" is a bit disengenuous when it fails to address, "however, here are also a bunch of people who actually don't hate Windows 8".

But okay, I can understand that a post about Windows 8 would be held to a more neutral standard than a post about negative reactions to Windows 8.

Question: would a post about positive reactions to Windows 8 be deleted as a double?

By: gilrain

gilrain — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 07:16:17 -0800

(I don't actually intend to make such a post regardless of the answer, just curious.)

By: muddgirl

muddgirl — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 07:19:23 -0800

(Actually, the thrust of the post is probably this link, which is about way more than "Windows 8 suxors". But it's pretty hard to miss that because it's the last link in the post, under the fold.)

By: librarylis

librarylis — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 07:21:11 -0800

Question: would a post about positive reactions to Windows 8 be deleted as a double?

The very next or the very same day? Historically those have been deleted as stunt posts, though I'm sure a mod will be along shortly to confirm/deny.

By: elizardbits

elizardbits — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 07:21:18 -0800

Why wouldn't you just post links to positive reactions to Win8 right there in the thread where the discussion is already taking place?

By: gilrain

gilrain — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 07:23:28 -0800

elizardbits: Why wouldn't you just post links to positive reactions to Win8 right there in the thread where the discussion is already taking place?

I consider that thread to be toxic, or at least very unpleasant, for any positive discussion of Win 8, to be honest. In just the way that jessamyn describes the anti-editorializing guidelines as preventing.

However, I understand and accept the ruling, here. I'm moving on beginning now.

By: special-k

special-k — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 07:23:47 -0800

Looks fine to me on my Macbook Pro. What browser are you using?

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 07:26:33 -0800

Yeah a post on exactly the opposite perspective within the same day would look stunty though we really can't say if we'd delete something like that or not. But there is a long history of people displeased with one thread's treatment of a topic who channel that frustration into a "competing" thread and those are rarely good threads on their own. Wait a bit until there's something neat you've found on the topic that you'd like to post about is usually a better approach.

By: bonehead

bonehead — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 07:27:18 -0800

So now we're politicizing software reviews?

Now? Always. As long as nerds have a place to gather, always.

By: gman

gman — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 07:29:20 -0800

gilrain: I consider that thread to be toxic, or at least very unpleasant, for any positive discussion...

Yeah, I totally hate threads that make people with a minority opinion feel unwelcome. You express something that the mob doesn't agree with, and boom, a dozen users jump on you. Pointless, really.

By: octobersurprise

octobersurprise — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 07:34:57 -0800

Microsoft is not going to sit back any longer and let itself be silenced!

By: octobersurprise

octobersurprise — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 07:38:11 -0800

Eh. Not my best work. Let's try that again.

so that a thread doesn't get pre-fucked

I like to think of that as "pre-installed."

By: exogenous

exogenous — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 07:44:01 -0800

bonehead: "Now? Always. As long as nerds have a place to gather, always."

Some nerds pre-date software

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 08:00:39 -0800

The topic of the post was not "Windows 8." The topic of the post was "negative reviews of Windows 8."

That probably makes it a double or triple.

By: muddgirl

muddgirl — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 08:04:15 -0800

Double post doesn't mean 'two posts on the same topic." Otherwise any links to sports topics would be verboten.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 08:07:41 -0800

It doesn't bring anything new to the table to distinguish itself from the previous posts.

By: muddgirl

muddgirl — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 08:12:07 -0800

But a double post is a specific stabdard - two posts about the same link/same article.

"Two posts on the same or similar topics" seems to be a different standard only enforced when there is a current, active discussion ongoing.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 08:21:29 -0800

There's an open Microsoft sucks post by the same user. At least that one has some stronger links though.

By: crunchland

crunchland — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 08:30:22 -0800

I think we can all agree that all OSs suck.

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 08:31:14 -0800

On the plus side, the Windows 8 stuff was popping up in Apple/Samsung - on the grounds, I guess, that it's sort of a mobile OS. If that unfouls those rotors, that's probably a good thing - in fact, it might be early enough to clean out the derail...

By: Tell Me No Lies

Tell Me No Lies — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 08:37:33 -0800

If we're going to be Fair and Balanced the counterpart thread should be about how everyone hates Mountain Lion.

By: 2bucksplus

2bucksplus — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 08:41:21 -0800

I've made these kinds of product review threads before and I prefer to make them a bit more even handed than this one was. A link dump of negative reviews isn't terrible interesting; it's like the opposite of Pepsi Blue and I fear we're going to get a bunch of "27 Helens agree, ______ sux" posts. That said it's not my thread.

By: Big_B

Big_B — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 09:11:56 -0800

There's an open Microsoft sucks post by the same user. At least that one has some stronger links though.

This is the crux of the problem for me. Not only is it editorialized, but the poster has an existing microsoft sux soapbox thread.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 09:12:08 -0800

everyone hates Mountain Lion

*sniffle* Poor kitty. I liked it better than regular Lion, which was a pretty crappy rev.

By: ook

ook — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 09:22:39 -0800

I wish we could go back to using sequential numbers. I can never remember which cat is which.

By: Elmore

Elmore — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 09:25:10 -0800

Windows 8? Ha, I've Windows 98 losers.

By: kmz

kmz — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 09:34:16 -0800

Say what you will about Ubuntu's latest direction, at least it's easy to tell how their versions work. Unlike Apple's unordered cats and whatever the fuck Microsoft feels like at any particular time. I mean, 3 -> 95 -> 98 -> ME -> XP -> Vista -> 7 -> 8. The fuck?

By: Egg Shen

Egg Shen — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 09:35:55 -0800

Apple's unordered cats

Well, you know how difficult it is to herd cats.

By: crunchland

crunchland — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 09:46:46 -0800

The fuck? -- I really can't see working up much juice over what they name an OS. It's like fixating on what color they paint the handle on a hammer.

By: not that girl

not that girl — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 09:50:20 -0800

3 -> 95 -> 98 -> ME -> XP -> Vista -> 7 -> 8

It's like when my 4-year-old did a countdown that went "1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, Thursday, 14, 16...blast-off!"

By: cortex

cortex — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 09:51:57 -0800

There's a whole bifurcation with NT and 2000 that's missing there.

By: Big_B

Big_B — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 09:54:33 -0800

Not to mention you included the OS THAT SHALL NOT BE NAMED.

By: Zed

Zed — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 09:55:23 -0800

I think we can all agree that all OSs suck.

Yeah, but some OSes suck less than others and then we're off to the races again...

everyone hates Mountain Lion

Don't listen to the haters, Mountain Lion! I love you!

By: Rock Steady

Rock Steady — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 09:57:17 -0800

I think the official Windows numbering scheme goes:
3 = 3
4 = 95/98
Hey, look at that XBox! = ME
5 = XP
6 = Vista
7 = 7
8 = 8

By: anotherpanacea

anotherpanacea — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:04:32 -0800

I don't really care about OS wars, but obviously some people do.

It's weird that Egg Shen pre-polled Metatalk to make sure that a goodly percentage of us are Apple users. He posted his passle of negative reviews right after that MetaTalk and that looks a little stunty or something.

That said, he's had some really great posts this month so I don't mind this one clunker much.

By: introp

introp — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:13:46 -0800

Rocksteady: I think the official Windows numbering scheme goes:

Oddly enough, the official internal version system is:

Windows 2000  == v5.0

Windows XP    == v5.1

Windows Vista == v6.0

Windows 7     == v6.1

Windows 8     == v6.2

Which makes sense once you realize XP was based on 2000's guts, with most of the work north of the kernel. Likewise with Vista to Win7, which were largely UI and subsystem changes, etc.

By: sbutler

sbutler — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:25:38 -0800

@introp: makes even more sense when you realize 2000 is based off NT, which has versions 3.1, 3.5, 3.51, and 4.0.

The Windows 3.1, 95, 98, et al series doesn't actually have much to do with current Windows except look and feel.

By: zamboni

zamboni — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:26:29 -0800

Windows Vista Team Blog: Why 7?

We learned a lot about using 5.1 for XP and how that helped developers with version checking for API compatibility. We also had the lesson reinforced when we applied the version number in the Windows Vista code as Windows 6.0-- that changing basic version numbers can cause application compatibility issues.

So we decided to ship the Windows 7 code as Windows 6.1 - which is what you will see in the actual version of the product in cmd.exe or computer properties.

By: RolandOfEld

RolandOfEld — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:32:18 -0800

The fuck? -- I really can't see working up much juice over what they name an OS. It's like fixating on what color they paint the handle on a hammer.

As someone that manages code versioning and code lines and deals with people that think the same way with regards to internal versioning and code line organization all I can do is tell you what I told them,

"No, we shouldn't name build servers after Muppets or wildlife (specifically birds) native toyour home country, it's confusing and very much sub-par."

*facepalm* Do what you want to with regards to external names and marketing but ffs leave it at the door when you enter into the dev-space/SCM side of things. /rant

By: RolandOfEld

RolandOfEld — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:33:53 -0800

Oh, and the Dev code lines were also named in the same fashion, that was even worse to sort out and follow logically, forgot to mention that one. Eat that product managers!

By: oneirodynia

oneirodynia — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:34:20 -0800

It's like fixating on what color they paint the handle on a hammer.

You scoff now, but wait until you drop your green-handled hammer from the roof into a wide and verdant swath of ivy.

By: davejay

davejay — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:48:27 -0800

I think we can all agree that all OSs suck.

I'm still carrying a very tiny, very low-latency torch for BeOS, though.

By: introp

introp — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 10:49:56 -0800

See, we always code-name internal releases because you never know what version they'll be labeled at release. You merge a bugfix to the "zelda" and "mario" lines, and those might be 7.0, or 7.1, or 8.0, or 7.0 Xtreme Super Batman Edition. What do we, as devs, care? It's rev 9813, merged to zelda and mario, not back-ported to peach. There's a trivial dot file generated from the SCM tool that, run through graphviz, shows the relationship between branches, revisions, and dates. (Only the new guys need it, and then only for a few weeks.)

</sidetrack>

By: octobersurprise

octobersurprise — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 11:07:55 -0800

It's like fixating on what color they paint the handle on a hammer.

How else do coordinate your hammer with your overalls?

By: RolandOfEld

RolandOfEld — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 11:10:20 -0800

Yea but why not name the feature branch for, ya'know, the feature it was created for?

They did it for release lines too and I guess I didn't mention that above. That was the absolute worst.

By: misha

misha — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 12:19:42 -0800

I love Snow Leopard and am still resisting Lion and Mountain Lion tooth and nail.

This, despite my favorite word puzzle game only being available through the Mac app store for Lion+ users (why hast thou forsaken me, SpellTower?).

With my iPad gone, I have to smuggle my spouse's away from him just to get my word fix now. :(

By: juiceCake

juiceCake — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 12:39:44 -0800

I'm still carrying a very tiny, very low-latency torch for BeOS, though.

I have one for AmigaOS, at least back in the day, it was pretty impressive. Both it and BeOS had a lot of foundation in them that has been carried out by other OSs.

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 12:42:39 -0800

The only problem with pouring one out for AmigaOS as it comes back from the grave again, each time in more putrid zombie form, and requires putting down with a shotgun.

But yes, back in the day...

By: MartinWisse

MartinWisse — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 12:49:12 -0800

Why not take a neutral stance in the post itself, at least?

Because this isn't Wikipedia?

By: wildcrdj

wildcrdj — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 13:47:36 -0800

Yeah, I saw that thread and avoided it like the plague. Given the framing it was pretty clearly going to be a one-sided discussion, given that most people haven't used Win8 yet and unless they've been reading a wide variety of reviews their perception would be strongly colored by the articles chosen.

That said, not a big deal. Plenty of other threads to read...

By: grapesaresour

grapesaresour — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 13:56:03 -0800

SpellTower

Oh no. Now I've downloaded this and I'm never going to do anything else ever again.

Another victim of the OS wars!

By: philip-random

philip-random — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 14:05:55 -0800

... because everything must be fair + balanced.

By: cjorgensen

cjorgensen — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 14:58:14 -0800

It's like when my 4-year-old did a countdown that went "1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, Thursday, 14, 16...blast-off!"

That's a countup. Also, your kid forgot purple comes after 3.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 15:24:39 -0800

I missed the Snow Leopard thing (it was when I thought I was going to get a different computer, so I didn't bother) and now I want it and Apple doesn't seem to have it on their site anymore as a download.

Also: "Question: would a post about positive reactions to Windows 8 be deleted as a double?"

The best thing to do is generally to just post that in thread and realize that you're not going to take any extraordinary lumps for liking Win8. It's not like being a Republican or anything.

By: ook

ook — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 15:36:24 -0800

We learned a lot about using 5.1 for XP and how that helped developers with version checking for API compatibility. We also had the lesson reinforced when we applied the version number in the Windows Vista code as Windows 6.0-- that changing basic version numbers can cause application compatibility issues.

I am genuinely confused by this. How does a version number cause a compatibility issue, exactly?

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 15:43:10 -0800

Some software installers (drivers, particularly) use version numbering to decide whether to run or not.

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 15:43:43 -0800

I love Snow Leopard and am still resisting Lion and Mountain Lion tooth and nail.

Preach it, sister. We should start a group.

By: smackfu

smackfu — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 16:07:58 -0800

That said, he's had some really great posts this month so I don't mind this one clunker much.

Actually, he's posted a FPP every single day since he joined 31 days ago. Very odd.

By: drjimmy11

drjimmy11 — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 16:41:47 -0800

That's a terrible post. I'm sure I could go on Amazon and cherrypick negative reviews of "Hamlet," "The Great Gatsby," and probably an actual loaf of sliced bread.

By: Clinging to the Wreckage

Clinging to the Wreckage — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 16:56:50 -0800

Actually, he's posted a FPP every single day since he joined 31 days ago. Very odd.

The user name and profile hint at the fact that this may be a new day rather than a new user. I don't care one way or the other as long as it's in good faith and I'm not going to dig, but should we care if a new user posts regularly? I don't post FPPs (aside from one so far), but I lurked for years before I had an account, so I knew the atmosphere and what made a good post long before I joined, so I don't think that this by itself is so odd.

By: Kirth Gerson

Kirth Gerson — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 17:48:05 -0800

I am definitely going to hold out until Microsoft releases Windows The Fuck.

By: PeterMcDermott

PeterMcDermott — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 17:57:48 -0800

I think we can all agree that all OSs suck.

From Microsoft to Macintosh
To Lin-Line-Lin-Lie... nux...

By: XMLicious

XMLicious — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 19:24:12 -0800

Windows The Fuck

The huge fuck? The something terrible?

By: Artw

Artw — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 20:25:12 -0800

Tsk.

By: panaceanot

panaceanot — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 20:48:13 -0800

Hammer handles should be painted red.

By: Ad hominem

Ad hominem — Fri, 24 Aug 2012 21:45:08 -0800

Yeah that is a pretty brutal post. Of course it doesn't matter if 8 succeeds or not. Code isn't like wheat, it won't rot in the fields if nobody buys it this time around, you'll be getting the same code when you buy windows 9

I don't really use version numbers anymore. I just use iteration numbers.

By: SakuraK

SakuraK — Sat, 25 Aug 2012 00:25:51 -0800

So the takeaway is: if you have a strong opinion on anything current and tech-related, post as soon as possible with as many links as you can find which support your viewpoint. You get to set the initial parameters of discussion, and anyone with a different opinion is relegated to rebutting in comments because posts on the same topic from a different perspective will be deleted.

This sounds like the plot of a West Wing episode after the series started to peter out.

By: MartinWisse

MartinWisse — Sat, 25 Aug 2012 00:39:19 -0800

If that was the case, there would've only been one cute cat link here ever. I'm sure it would be possible to create a Win8 = WinGr8! post, just not as a direct rebuttal to another recent post.

And you'd still get a lot of negative feedback, because a lot of people just don't like it no matter how much you think they're wrong...

By: Nanukthedog

Nanukthedog — Sat, 25 Aug 2012 05:14:06 -0800

While I normally respect the mods opinion on most issues, this sets a bad presidence from my point of view.

The post is negative and inflammatory in its framing by omission. The contents are toxic. The mods have clearly stated that it is probably not the best place for a positive discussion on reviews of the product, and that such posts would have to extremely well written to not be deleted from the front page as stunt posts.

I can't wait for some discussions on religion, gender roles, racism and other hotbed topics that can highlight exactly why that is a bad stance.

By its design, the first post was a stunt post in its own right. The

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Sat, 25 Aug 2012 05:27:10 -0800

I can't wait for some discussions on religion, gender roles, racism and other hotbed topics that can highlight exactly why that is a bad stance.

I don't want to speak for the mods, but I'm sort of assuming that they'll see religion, gender roles, racism and other hotbed topics as more worthy of scrutiny than operating systems, which - it must be said - are pretty much outrage-voluntary. Nobody ever got Windows-bashed, to my knowledge, and - although people behave very badly in Windows/Mac, Apple/Google, Android/iOS threads et cet - one reason they get to do so is probably because the stakes are really very low.

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Sat, 25 Aug 2012 07:38:56 -0800

anyone with a different opinion is relegated to rebutting in comments because posts on the same topic from a different perspective will be deleted.

We did not say that.

The mods have clearly stated that it is probably not the best place for a positive discussion on reviews of the product, and that such posts would have to extremely well written to not be deleted from the front page as stunt posts.

We also did not say that.

We said don't make one the same day because you're annoyed at the post that exists, wait a while and make one a little later. That's fine. Making a single-link-Gawker post about "the other side" also being jerks is not really an equivalent situation. And yeah if this one user makes another "Windows 8 sucks" post we will talk to him about not being an axe grinding user, but there's nothing inherently wrong with "Boy people really don't like this OS" except that generally negatively toned posts tend to bring out more ill will and bad feeling than "Here is a neat/cool thing on the internet."

By: ook

ook — Sat, 25 Aug 2012 09:17:47 -0800

Some software installers (drivers, particularly) use version numbering to decide whether to run or not.

Ah, thanks. So it's not so much a compatibility problem as a "lazily written installer" problem.

By: Nanukthedog

Nanukthedog — Sat, 25 Aug 2012 09:53:37 -0800

Okay, so lets look at what we've actually got in the meat of the articles and discuss the merit of each author.

First: Tim Edwards. Tim Edwards is an editor for PC Games, so one could view him as an authority in all things PC - except no, not on a radical change in OSes. For starters, The Win8 OS is designed for the mobile platform. This is Microsoft's effort to adapt to a changing market place. The desktop PC market (even the Laptop market) has reached its zenith and until there is a compelling reason to go back, the market is no longer focused on retaining the same experience that users have had. In effect, the OS is not designed for him, and he has - like others before him - become an old man in a hat on the information super highway (doing 45 in the fast lane, and probably knocking over a trash can when he turns into his driveway - just before he tells those kids to get off his lawn.) Like Microsoft, he is looking at this from a position of failure to adapt. Microsoft has now begun their adaptation to the new paradigm. Clearly he hasn't.

Next: Igor Ljubuncic. Igor is a Linux expert. He is in fact an OS expert and also has many valid points, but I think I'd wager that he may have an axe to grind against Microsoft and would view anything the company put out in perhaps the worst possible light. If I have to really spell out how this would jade his opinion - well then, go read fifteen or twenty years of Slashdot archives and get back to me on why Linux users have an axe to grind with Microsoft.

Third: Farhad Manjoo. Farhad is a staff writer for Slate on Technology. Certainly a journalist doesn't have a bias right? Fox News tells me their fair and balanced and clearly all other Journalists are as well. If you've read him in the past - he would qualify as an apple Zealot. Yes, he reviews android devices, but he is extremely willing to point out how and where they copy apple, that maybe google shouldn't be trusted anymore, that people should design their websites around his iPad and iPhone, and that the latest Mac Book Pro is the best MacBook Pro ever... which is an interesting perspective.

Fourth: Woody Leonhard. Here's an interesting choice. He is, in fact, an expert in Windows and Office. He's also specifically an expert in bitching about it. Yes it is his principal OS, but he intentionally works in the spaces where it fails to work. He is, what I would consider, a driving force for positive change through negativity. (Metafilter: a driving for positive change through negativity.) His reviews and take on things are focused on showing the inherent problems and sticking points with Microsoft products. Its an interesting space. While he does badmouth the product, he'll be shilling a few books on how to make your life easier by buying his book on Win8 in no time.

Next: John C. Dvorak. This is actually a very good article on how it doesn't meet the business client's needs from today's perspective. Once again though, this assumes that businesses are continuing about the same paradigm as they have for the past twenty years and will be operating in the desktop mode. Look around at your place of employment. Tablets are everywhere, meetings are everywhere and your ability to bring your PC with you is now brought to a reality. This wasn't designed for what he is used to and yes, businesses will stick with Win7 for probably the next few years - until either a business skin is developed or the business world goes ga-ga for tablets completely. It is coming. He's behind the curve.

Next: Preston Gralla. Here's an interesting article. He's pro-Microsoft himself, but interviewing an ex-Microsoft employee. There are a ton of valid points in it; however, the PC market being up only fractions of a point though is lazy journalism and conversation. The PC market is saturated, and no - as of yet, this isn't the OS that will convert apple fanatics back to the PC. Yes, the new paradigm potentially is in direct competition with Valve's business model of pushing software onto your machine via the web. With it going far more 'Microsoft' controlled, like Apple, this is something that probably pisses off Valve quite a bit.

Skipping the only Microsoft press statement we get to our last person...

Last on the commentators: Michael Mace. Here's a former exec at Palm and Apple. It benefits him to grind an axe, probably financially as well as emotionally.

And the cherry-picked dig from the OP at the end: Yes! DOOM AND GLOOM! If this forces Dell and HP to abandon their PC lines #1 I'll be amazed, but #2 - it isn't the only thing. (As stated above, the workplace is increasing in the tablet paradigm.)

So, while yes, these articles could be used to launch a constructive conversation as either part of a larger conversation on it, these are the only articles on it. Sure the previously is semi-positive... But really, We've got a collection of experts that - eh ... are really cherry picked for their ability to be ticked off by the OS to begin with.

Also, as a side note - I dislike Win8, and yes, I AM already back to Win7 as well, but I freely admit that I'm not at a point yet where I can make the paradigm shift. Give me a bit more time to integrate my life into the tablet, and I bet I'll be back.

By: Blazecock Pileon

Blazecock Pileon — Sat, 25 Aug 2012 10:41:34 -0800

So it's not so much a compatibility problem as a "lazily written installer" problem.

Partially, yes. Another reason is that a driver that works in XP won't be validated by the validation process API that exists in Vista/7/8, and will not, therefore, actually work when installed in Vista/7/8. As one example, say.

By: gjc

gjc — Sat, 25 Aug 2012 10:51:49 -0800

So it's not so much a compatibility problem as a "lazily written installer" problem.

Not lazy, just hierarchical. The code has to have a way to figure out whether it will work, and using the logic of "if version >= 6 then it's ok" is easier than maintaining a hard coded list of valid OSs. Especially if you want to avoid things like having to release patches when MS comes out with 6.12 and your list only had 6.1.

By: philip-random

philip-random — Sat, 25 Aug 2012 11:04:48 -0800

but I'm sort of assuming that they'll see religion, gender roles, racism and other hotbed topics as more worthy of scrutiny than operating systems,

"in operating systems we trust"

I'm pretty sure this on the hundred dollar bill somewhere, in Latin, of course, spelled backward, because it is in fact a Satanic incantation.

By: ook

ook — Sat, 25 Aug 2012 11:26:12 -0800

Not lazy, just hierarchical. The code has to have a way to figure out whether it will work, and using the logic of "if version >= 6 then it's ok" is easier than maintaining a hard coded list of valid OSs.

Except that they were saying switching from 5 to 6 caused problems, but 5 to 5.1 would not have. Implies that a lot of developers were doing a sort of compromise checking for == current major release but >= current minor release... I guess in theory that sort of makes sense, in that a major release is more likely to have major changes that may inflict with your software... But it's still guesswork, and in practice doesn't seem to have worked out very well given that MS had to alter their own release numbering to work around it...

By: alasdair

alasdair — Sat, 25 Aug 2012 16:32:04 -0800

Well, here I am writing my program, it's 2008. Oh, look, Vista is out! It handles Subsystem X differently from Windows XP, and my program uses Subsystem X! No problem. Vista is version 6, and Windows XP is version 5.

IF operatingsystem = 6 THEN
(Use my special Vista code)
ELSE
(Use my Windows XP code)

Works great! Until Windows 7 ships, which has the same Subsystem X as Vista, of course, not XP. So I need to use the Vista code. But the check I wrote for operatingsystem only checks for V6. If Windows 7 is version 7, it doesn't work.

So if instead Microsoft leaves the version number of Windows 7 as 6, countless dumb programmers like me will find the code continues to work. If they don't, it'll be all Microsoft's fault, this stupid new unstable Windows 7.

Quite naturally they leave it as version 6.

By: ook

ook — Sat, 25 Aug 2012 16:52:43 -0800

WIN6-4EVA

By: Artw

Artw — Sat, 25 Aug 2012 21:53:31 -0800

Making a single-link-Gawker post about "the other side" also being jerks is not really an equivalent situation

Thought it was a pretty interesting article myself, more from a retail gone bad angle than, "the other side" being this or that. And a single link post is better than any lazy pandering mess of a post made out of whatever nothingy links tootle throws up up - strip those out and it's basically a zero link post intended as a soapbox.

By: jonnyploy

jonnyploy — Sun, 26 Aug 2012 02:50:54 -0800

Not to mention you included the OS THAT SHALL NOT BE NAMED.
posted by Big_B at 17:54 on August 24 [+] [!]

If I ever create an OS I am absolutely naming it "Voldemort".

By: mattoxic

mattoxic — Sun, 26 Aug 2012 07:03:46 -0800

I thought that the linked articles came of as hysterical and silly "The classic Start Menu is gone, and you can no longer disable Metro and use the normal desktop interface as you should."

Should I? Thanks fuckface

and

OK, let me be blunt. No one is going to write their business PowerPoint presentations on a smartphone. No one is going to design a new car on a tablet. No one will run protein folding on their smartphone. No one will play ArmA II on a smartphone.

No, no one will because you're talking about an operating system you wanker - people use the apps that run on the operating system to do those things.

By: Egg Shen

Egg Shen — Sun, 26 Aug 2012 08:10:35 -0800

any lazy pandering mess of a post made out of whatever nothingy links tootle throws up up

This reminded me of the part in C.S. Lewis's The Screwtape Letters where the letter breaks off in the middle of lambasting Wormwood and then resumes: "In the heat of composition I find that I have inadvertently allowed myself to assume the form of a large centipede".

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Sun, 26 Aug 2012 08:32:58 -0800

Centipede or not, you have reached your limit of ranty anti-Windows posts for the foreseeable future without becoming That Guy about them.

By: flabdablet

flabdablet — Sun, 26 Aug 2012 09:43:13 -0800

Although to be completely objective and fair, Windows 8 does blow goats.

By: Kirth Gerson

Kirth Gerson — Sun, 26 Aug 2012 18:09:35 -0800

I think a Congressional investigation is warranted. Why is Microsoft so invested in making goats happy?

By: Artw

Artw — Sun, 26 Aug 2012 19:31:06 -0800

I'm going to leave this in both threads: Windows 8 productivity: Who moved my cheese? Oh, there it is. - looks to be a very useful guide to getting things on Win8. Bit keyboard heavy, but definatly some stuff I'll be using.

By: ook

ook — Mon, 27 Aug 2012 06:48:59 -0800

For starters, The Win8 OS is designed for the mobile platform.

But that's kind of the point: most of the real criticism of the OS is in one way or another related to Microsoft's (IMHO) bizarre decision to deploy an OS interface designed for the mobile platform on non-mobile devices.

Mobile probably is the future, but the future isn't here yet.