Comments on: Quadrennial

Quadrennial

twoleftfeet — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 01:45:40 -0800

I'm going to ask the moderators from other countries not to interfere with our discussion of American politics. It's more difficult for them to deal with this, because we can all get crazy every four years about this and we need to do that, and they need to let us get crazy about this. I'm not going to mention specific instances, but they exist. Please chill out about this. Things will get back to normal afterwards.

By: MartinWisse

MartinWisse — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 01:51:44 -0800

I think you underestimate the non-American mods. And while the craziness might need an outlet, whether MetaFilter is the place for it...?

One could always go hang out at Kos or whatever rightwing equivalent one fancies.

By: PercussivePaul

PercussivePaul — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 01:56:02 -0800

You don't 'need' to do anything and 'they' don't 'need' to let you. This place is the combined product of our collective intentions. It doesn't have to be a place where it goes crazy every four years (er, two if you count midterms). I don't want it to be such a place. Many people don't want it to be such a place. Maybe the ones who want to go crazy could chill out instead?

By: stoneandstar

stoneandstar — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 01:56:07 -0800

I live in the US and I'm totally not cool with this place becoming Election Central every four years. I read that stuff in the news (sometimes obsessively even), and I'd rather Metafilter stay its eclectic self. I think the current mod rule that political posts need to exceed a simple article or update (go above and beyond?) is great, because otherwise there'd be a deluge and I'm really only interested in political stuff here when it matches the tone and culture of this place as usual. I don't really think politics as seen through the lens of whatever is happening in the US election is the most thoughtful or interesting way to bring politics here, generally.

By: Chichibio

Chichibio — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 01:59:36 -0800

I'm sure there are lots of other websites on this world wide web of ours where you could "get crazy" about American politics, and most folks on Metafilter, American or not, would prefer that you do it there. What this has to do with mods based in non-American countries is baffling to me. Should American mods be restrained from deleting commentary abusive to other members of the community in a heated thread about the Eurozone?

By: empatterson

empatterson — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:01:06 -0800

Maybe some users need to remember that there are loads of us from other countries who don't come to MetaFilter for the fantastic rhetoric on American politics.

By: sbutler

sbutler — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:07:50 -0800

We don't need to go crazy, actually. MetaFilter isn't an extension of the Democratic party's nominating convention.

By: Marauding Ennui

Marauding Ennui — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:08:02 -0800

There are non-american mods?

By: empatterson

empatterson — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:08:35 -0800

Also, post your political threads when the US mod squad is on duty, and watch that shit get deleted just as fast.

By: bardic

bardic — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:14:00 -0800

"One could always go hang out at Kos or whatever rightwing equivalent one fancies."

One could always simply skip the goddamn threads they aren't interested in.

Decisions, decisions. . . .

By: mannequito

mannequito — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:19:33 -0800

they need to let us get crazy about this....Please chill out about this

There's your problem right there America. Bingo Bango, sugar in the gastank.

By: FreezBoy

FreezBoy — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:27:11 -0800

Like most users here, I think I would personally prefer as few election posts as possible and every four years it is kind of a bear to deal with moderating new MeFi posts for the two months leading up to elections... posted by Mathowie

By: Infinite Jest

Infinite Jest — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:27:38 -0800

What non-American mods?

Mathowie, jessamyn, cortex and taz are all American. (taz lives in Greece, but is American, as you'd see if you looked at her profile). Restless_nomad lives in the US according to her profile, though I guess she could be non-American.

That leaves vacapinta, who lives in the UK but is also American (and doesn't mod much anymore anyway AFAIK).

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:28:24 -0800

The way moderation works requires an alert human being, so if there are bizarre political twists about the American election that surface at minus 8 Greenwich Mean Time then the moderators who are supposed to be awake to deal with early morning news are not necessarily awake at those times unless they are located closer to the Greenwich line or east of it. But then they might not be close enough to the action to have a full sympathy for the events that are unfolding while they are moderating.

I object to the fact that the Earth revolves about its axis and that axis revolves about the Sun, and I think Metafilter has done nothing to correct that.

By: strangely stunted trees

strangely stunted trees — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:30:54 -0800

Vacapinta is an American, and even if he weren't that would have been a good deletion. This is a shitty and incoherent call-out and you should walk away before you embarrass yourself worse than you already have.

By: Eideteker

Eideteker — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:32:40 -0800

I'm going to ask that you chill out about this.

By: sbutler

sbutler — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:32:58 -0800

Your deleted post wasn't a "bizarre political twist". A guy who gets paid tens of thousands of dollars to give good speeches, a guy who was elected twice partly because he gives good speeches, stood up tonight and gave a good speech.

By: Eideteker

Eideteker — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:34:32 -0800

"The way moderation works requires an alert human being, so if there are bizarre political twists about the American election that surface at minus 8 Greenwich Mean Time then the moderators who are supposed to be awake to deal with early morning news are not necessarily awake at those times unless they are located closer to the Greenwich line or east of it. But then they might not be close enough to the action to have a full sympathy for the events that are unfolding while they are moderating.

I object to the fact that the Earth revolves about its axis and that axis revolves about the Sun, and I think Metafilter has done nothing to correct that."

Gene Ray, is that you?

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:41:35 -0800

Oh bullishit. watching Clinton is still a thrill. If you don't get that, if you don't understand why I would object when that post was deleted, then you just aren't an American.

I'm going to fight this one. One day you will understand.

By: Chichibio

Chichibio — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:44:28 -0800

I'm going to fight this one. One day you will understand.

As a non-American, what chance could I have of possibly understanding this?

By: phaedon

phaedon — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:44:52 -0800

All I know is I'm about to get really upset. For no particular reason.

By: His thoughts were red thoughts

His thoughts were red thoughts — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:46:44 -0800

I'm going to ask the moderators from other countries not to interfere with our discussion of American politics.

What do you mean 'we', kemosabe? We're not all American, here. But that's by the by. The proposition that a non-American couldn't possibly understand the US electoral system, and therefore can't moderate election threads, is rather silly.

The mods are smart people, and you don't need to be a subject matter expert to made sure that people behave themselves in a thread.

By: 6550

6550 — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:48:23 -0800

So even if watching Clinton is still a thrill, does that in and of itself make for a good and necessary post, and one that clears the higher bar set for political posts during election season?

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:54:02 -0800

Right, so, Clinton gives a speech (most of which is ad lib) which summarizes the current state of the political dialectic in the U.S. - a speech, mind you, which you will see applauded in tomorrow's press - and I make a simple post saying that it was an amazing speech, and my post gets deleted by someone who probably didn't even watch the speech, and I object, because I don't think it's appropriate to delete a post when you didn't even watch the damn thing, and I happen to think these kinds of things are important, so, again, I object... and now this community will rally, determined to justify the deletion.

Pathetic.

By: XMLicious

XMLicious — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 02:58:43 -0800

It would have been even better if that post had been assassinated by a drone.

By: His thoughts were red thoughts

His thoughts were red thoughts — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:03:01 -0800

I haven't watched the speech. But your post looks really thin on the face of it. Were I mod, I would likely have deleted it, and asked to you perhaps add some context so it didn't look like a single link LOOKIT A POLITICAL THING HAPPENEDZ post. Because, IMO, it was not clear why it was the best of the web.

... and now this community will rally, determined to justify the deletion

If that happens, it will be because people agree with it. Not because of whatever conspiracy theory you seem to be harbouring.

By: Chichibio

Chichibio — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:04:40 -0800

Leaving aside your assumption that vacapinta didn't watch the speech, couldn't you have waited until the press applauded the speech tomorrow and made an interesting post around that, Clinton's post-presidential career and the history of historic convention speeches? That's something that could have stood.

I mean, exactly what part of "[election] threads will have to be a lot more than 'this thing happened'" is difficult to comprehend?

By: His thoughts were red thoughts

His thoughts were red thoughts — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:05:59 -0800

On the upside - today I learned where all the mods live. That's pretty interesting.

By: jacalata

jacalata — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:08:08 -0800

If you don't get that, if you don't understand why I would object when that post was deleted, then you just aren't an American.

ooh, this is a novel twist on the No True Scotsman fallacy.

By: mannequito

mannequito — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:12:02 -0800

On the upside - today I learned where all the mods live. That's pretty interesting.

this is the scene in the movie where pb is standing behind you with a scythe

By: gman

gman — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:12:28 -0800

USian mods or not, from a user perspective I've never understood why anyone here gives a shit how many posts there are on any particular topic. Read what you like and skip what doesn't interest you. I do it all day long myself. And if certain types of posts really bother you, set up and use the MyMeFi link.

By: phaedon

phaedon — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:13:01 -0800

It seems to me, first of all, what I understand from past experience is, if it was a legitimate bad post, the original poster has ways to shut that whole thing down. But lets assume that didn't work, you know, then I think there should be some deletion.

By: lampshade

lampshade — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:13:11 -0800

To me, it looks like that post was less about the political content and more about how to generate a MeTa thread. From a new user, I could understand (but not agree with) the post-deletion-outrage. From a long time use, not so much.

By: The Master and Margarita Mix

The Master and Margarita Mix — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:13:18 -0800

I'm going to fight this one. One day you will understand.

Narcissism Alert! Other people exist, people who are not you, people who don't share your views. There are lots of people who are American and who either vehemently dislike or are completely apathetic about Clinton. In fact, if you don't already realize this and you were alive during the Clinton administrations, I have to question your ability to fully acknowledge the existence of other human beings at all. Hell, plenty of life-long Democrats dislike Clinton.

By: His thoughts were red thoughts

His thoughts were red thoughts — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:14:52 -0800

this is the scene in the movie where pb is standing behind you with a scythe

The snark is coming from inside the house.

By: lucidium

lucidium — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:16:14 -0800

It's easy for users to ignore threads they don't like, but I imagine some rate limiting on potentially contentious threads is vital for the mods to be able to keep an eye on all of them effectively.

By: phaedon

phaedon — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:17:06 -0800

MetaTalk: second place is a set of steak knives.

By: Chichibio

Chichibio — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:18:00 -0800

On the upside - today I learned where all the mods live. That's pretty interesting.

Today I would like to know the origin of "Bingo bango, sugar in the gas tank". The internet only points to Season 3 Episode 16 of The Simpsons ("Bart the Lover") which first aired in February of 1992 - but I swear I had a high school math teacher use that one in class at least a year earlier. Is that really the origin?

By: crunchland

crunchland — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:18:03 -0800

twoleftfeet: Iif you cared about America, and wanted an intelligent discussion about Bubba's speech, you would have crafted a more compelling post that would have survived the moderator gauntlet.

By: obiwanwasabi

obiwanwasabi — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:18:36 -0800

Mathowie, jessamyn, cortex and taz are all American.

taz is Australian.

Like pavlova. And Russell Crowe.

I SAW HER FIRST

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:19:05 -0800

Things get heated during an election year. I don't mean to insult the mods.

If I can't link to a speech I like, if I can't pass on some approval for it, maybe I should just find some nice videos of cute kittens, right?

Wrong! This election means more to me, and means more to those in other countries, than a simple question about how we frame Metafilter posts.

I give a shit about the political situation in the United States. If you don't give a similar shit, please don't try to stop me from caring about it.

By: romakimmy

romakimmy — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:19:19 -0800

Two left feet and both of 'em in your mouth. The premise of your original callout was flawed as has been pointed out by others. Now you're trying to claim deletion as a "if yer not with us, yer against America" fallacy? Did I fall into a wormhole where it's November 2001?

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:19:49 -0800

Hold on... only American moderators should be allowed to moderate American political threads, but if an American moderator deletes your thread they are clearly not American enough, because a real American would not have deleted your thread?

Dude. I thought MetaTalk used up all its nasty quota for the week yesterday, but this is kind of offensive. I mean, it's aiming for a small gain (getting a thread undeleted) with this incredibly oversized rhetorical weapon (you are not a real American).

(I thought restless_nomad was Australian, btw? Not sure why... not that this is relevant to the subject at hand.)

By: jacalata

jacalata — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:19:59 -0800

you could always take jessamyn's deletion reason, if she's American enough for you: This post was deleted for the following reason: Single link "this is something that happened at the DNC" absent any other context is sort of not great. There are a ton of political things going on now in the US. (pre-emptive: I don't think 'and it was really good!' is the kind of extra context that would have saved it.)

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:20:24 -0800

Ah - answered on preview.

By: mippy

mippy — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:20:51 -0800

I'd like to see more threads about non-Anglophone politics, myself. As I've not yet realised my ambition of speaking ALL THE LANGUAGES, it would be great to better understand, say, the board quota system in Norway. Or the return of bullfighting to TV - our nearest UK equivalent is fox hunting in terms of bloodsports, but there's a big class/class-war element to it that really muddies the debate, and I wonder how much bullfighting is seen in the same context.

By: mightshould

mightshould — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:21:09 -0800

Breaking news posts made with the intent to frame discussion is some other place. Maybe there is room for your post there. Meanwhile, this American is just fine and happy without news-splash of the moment.

By: obiwanwasabi

obiwanwasabi — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:21:26 -0800

Pathetic.
posted by twoleftfeet at 2:54 AM on September 6 [+] [!]

It's a comment AND a label.

I call it a lament.

By: obiwanwasabi

obiwanwasabi — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:22:34 -0800

Commel?

By: obiwanwasabi

obiwanwasabi — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:22:45 -0800

No, defintely lament.

By: Chichibio

Chichibio — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:24:45 -0800

A lamentable lament.

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:30:50 -0800

The Book of Lamentations is the least humorous book of the Hebrew bible.

I feel we are getting distracted somehow.

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:33:14 -0800

Possibly a lambel?

By: XMLicious

XMLicious — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:33:27 -0800

Neither taz nor restless_nomad sound Australian on the podcast.

By: undue influence

undue influence — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:35:35 -0800

Not being able to make a post about something you give a shit about doesn't somehow mean that none of us do. It's just that posts need to be more than 'whoa cool thing happened tonight here's a link', because that's not a substantial, discussion-starting, Best of the Web post, right?

It's not even restricting your right to give a shit. Posts are posts are posts, and you can get your own blog to pass approval on things you think are cool, too.

And then there's the tangent to the argument of: only people in the US can sufficiently understand and/or care about the elections to pass on the thin post. Or the mods are not American enough to. Wha?

man, pretend I put a joke here. The derail only appeared on preview.

By: gman

gman — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:36:50 -0800

Yeah, I'm pretty sure taz is USian - I'm American, but I live in Greece. So is restless_nomad, I think; not that it really matters.

By: Rodrigo Lamaitre

Rodrigo Lamaitre — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:45:42 -0800

If you don't get that, if you don't understand why I would object when that post was deleted, then you just aren't an American.

American politics are perhaps the easiest politics in the world to understand, outside of a dictatorship. You permanently have two parties based on conservative and liberal ideals and both sides think the other is ruining the country with their ideology. There is unlimited cash and no accountability if you like about the other party's platform or record. It's a high school presidential election on a bigger scale.

There are countries where governments who are elected have to form coalitions, or are trying to form democracies for the first time. Those are bloody hard to understand. American politics is not, and not agreeing with you certainly isn't about understanding, as it is about respecting the significant userbase who thinks there are plenty of places to constantly talk U.S. politics other than here, all day, every day.

By: Rodrigo Lamaitre

Rodrigo Lamaitre — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:46:06 -0800

like = lie.

By: smoke

smoke — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:49:17 -0800

I thought restless_nomad was Australian, btw?

Oh buddy, we wish. Ha. She is from down South though, right? (I'm thinking Texas? Am I wrong?). I often hear people comparing Australia with Texas, so I guess it's the most Australian state (obvs they've never been to Washington St or Tassie...)?

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:49:26 -0800

Slightly more seriously, if we assume that this is neither a serious request to non-American moderators (or not-American-enough moderators) to step back from moderating ElectionFilter (which we already know is not going to happen), nor one for all moderators to acknowledge that Americans just have to go crazy once every four years, specifically by posting lots of single-link FPPs to MetaFilter, and not to interfere with that (which we also know is not going to happen), but rather a complaint about a specific post deletion, how could a similar post avoid deletion?

Here's a thought: Bill Clinton has made a bunch of speeches at the DNC over the years, right, right? And those could presumably be collected. And then, since several hours of video might be a little much without context, one could look at how his speeches have been received by the media over time. I have a hunch that, as a very broad generalization, candidates get a lot of buzz and positive coverage, incumbents much less so, and then ex-presidents get a progressively warmer reception as the specific struggles of their time in office are replaced with a more nostalgic perception, but it's just a hunch.

I don't think I have time to make that post, but I'd love to read it...

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:51:12 -0800

A post comparing the different speech of past and present American Presidents would be interesting. A single link, not so much.

Come on buddy, use your words.

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:53:55 -0800

No, no... somebody watch the speech before you comment on it. This was Clinton's best speech of his life. Really.

By: cmonkey

cmonkey — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:54:07 -0800

If you're going to choose a hill to take a stand on, why do it with a post that had two nearly identical links to a speech that every single person who reads a newspaper or watches the news in much of the world will know about, whether they want to or not?

By: Horace Rumpole

Horace Rumpole — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:56:46 -0800

It never ceases to amaze me the way the laziest, most obviously deletable posts, get the most preposterously passionate MeTa defenses. Your insistence that nationality is an issue here is both demonstrably wrong and deeply offensive. If MetaFilter isn't meeting your needs in this regard, please feel free to get them met elsewhere.

By: ryanrs

ryanrs — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 03:57:05 -0800

My disillusionment with the Democratic party precludes watching another Bill Clinton speech. I don't care how good it is.

By: carsonb

carsonb — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:00:50 -0800

This was Clinton's best speech of his life.

Your shitty one-line post didn't really reflect that. twoleftfeet is a bad-faith actor by all indications in this thread (and previously).

By: The Master and Margarita Mix

The Master and Margarita Mix — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:01:04 -0800

American politics are perhaps the easiest politics in the world to understand, outside of a dictatorship.

I think this is being horribly uncharitable to the fascinating web of dysfunction and co-dependence present in many dictatorships. The interesting thing about dictators, be it a single person or a junta or a family or whatever, is that they actually have to govern at least a significant part of the country semi-effectively to stay in power, so there's usually all kinds of interesting, if horrifying, balancing acts and alliances going on.

No, no... somebody watch the speech before you comment on it. This was Clinton's best speech of his life. Really.

Why are you assuming people haven't? I have. I've heard him give plenty that were better, including multiple SOTUs and some policy-focused speeches with much smaller audiences. Dude, other people than you exist.

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:03:30 -0800

I'm going to stop fighting this fight tonight.

Whatever you think of Clinton, or Obama, or the election... I was just trying to point out that I really do think Clinton gave an amazing speech. It went on for 48 minutes, it was largely ad-lib, it tried to lay out the differences between the political positions at stake in the coming election.

The crowd was in a kind of rapture during that speech. I think it really was the act of a consummate politician.

Maybe we don't care anymore about political speeches. "Hey, Lincoln... wrap up that Gettysburg Address... we've got to go to commercial!"

I just liked that speech. The post got deleted.

Whatever.

By: crunchland

crunchland — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:05:55 -0800

This was Clinton's best speech of his life. Really. -- Let's see... where have we heard that before?

By: MartinWisse

MartinWisse — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:07:25 -0800

Read what you like and skip what doesn't interest you. I do it all day long myself.

With a lot of posts this can be done, but it is clear that there are topics and threads where this just isn't possible for a great many people, even if theoretically they ("we") have the ability not to read a post by Someone Being Wrong on the Internet. with certain topics, the craziness and hostility can easily leak out of threads to influence the wider site.

Viz the ongoing feminism debates for some great (not really great) examples.

US politics is such a topic and I can understand the mods being lary about allowing too much partisan pseudodebate to happen. It's easy to see that if not policed a bit more harsher than normal, the site could potentially be overwhelmed by low quality point - counterpoint posts, driving out those who aren't interested. If the first fifty front page posts are all interchangeable Obama Rulez, Romney drools and No, Romney rules and Obama drools posts, few people will bother to find the gems in between the dross.

In this particular case, the original poster would've done better to actually complain about their post being deleted, rather than get all sly and insinuating about the as it turns out non-existent non-American moderators not understanding US politics.

By: Rodrigo Lamaitre

Rodrigo Lamaitre — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:09:57 -0800

I just liked that speech. The post got deleted.

Whatever.

Fine, but you came in here suggesting that mods from other countries and people of other countries couldn't understand American politics and that they shouldn't get in the way of your conversation. That's a lot different than liking something that was deleted. There are wonderful political speeches made all the time in other countries and it would be untenable to allow them all.

I mean even still, you're still making broad generalizations that people don't care about political speeches anymore. I care, but I also found his speech linked on CNN and Google News, not to mention my local paper's coverage. You didn't bring something that was new or interesting, you brought something that anyone who cares even remotely about American politics would've found the second they opened a browser.

By: The Master and Margarita Mix

The Master and Margarita Mix — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:11:42 -0800

Maybe we don't care anymore about political speeches.

If this is ever true, "we" will be in a far better place politically than "we" have for the last couple hundred years. Americans as a whole care too much about speeches and the things speeches are a proxy for, and too little about policy and results.

By: zarq

zarq — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:12:00 -0800

If there's one thing we can't say about Bill Clinton, it's that he's been SILENCED ALL HIS LIFE.

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:13:25 -0800

He had a cigar in his mouth.

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:14:28 -0800

you brought something that anyone who cares even remotely about American politics would've found the second they opened a browser.

In fairness, I brought it minutes after it happened. And it was deleted a few minutes later.

So yeah, go figure how fast we're all processing this.

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:14:41 -0800

I did see Clinton's speech, am I allowed to tell you it was a lame post?

There are about three posts related to the election going on right now, why not make a comment IN one of those threads if all you had to say about the speech was "this was awesome"?

Things get heated during an election year. I don't mean to insult the mods.

Then why did you?

By: Etrigan

Etrigan — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:20:05 -0800

Just imagine if you'd put a tenth of the effort into making that FPP as you have defending it. Post of the goddamn year, it woulda been.

By: taz

taz — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:20:36 -0800

As we've done in past election seasons, we're discouraging a lot of different one-off posts for every development. Michelle gave a speech, Clinton gave a speech, Obama will give a speech, other items of interest will happen, and we don't want a post for every one of them. If someone makes a good substantive post that is more than the top headline of the moment about the DNC, the Clinton speech can obviously be a part of that.

People wanting a lot more politics/election presence on Metafilter will probably avoid frustration by participating at any one of the great politics blogs that are around, because we're going to be doing the same thing we usually do and go for fewer, better formed political posts rather This-Just-In! play-by-play update posts.

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:23:46 -0800

Maybe we don't care anymore about political speeches. "Hey, Lincoln... wrap up that Gettysburg Address... we've got to go to commercial!"

Dude, this is kind of like the part of every "should I propose to my ex-girlfriend during the return-the-CDs meeting she has arranged/turn up outside my ex-girlfriend's house at 4am with a boombox/send my ex-girlfriend an anonymous ukelele" Ask Metafilter question where, after a bunch of people say "no, you should not do that, because it would be creepy and unfair to make her deal with your unresolved feelings", the OP says something like:

Oh, well - I guess I'm the only person who still believes in romance. Who still believes in love, and that true love is worth fighting for...

It isn't that you are too beautiful for this world, or that the rest of us no longer care about... well, about abolishing slavery, the Lincoln comparison seems to suggest.

It is, specifically, that a post you made didn't have enough content for a moderator to think it passed the bar - a bar which has been set up specifically to prevent the entire front page of MetaFilter being one-link posts about the US election, each one with its own running battles that the mods have to try to keep tabs on.

A contextualising post about Bill Clinton, public speaker, and has 24 years of DNC speeches would, I suspect, be fine. A single-link comment in the currently active RNC thread, which is moving on to the DNC, would be fine. A content-rich post about the DNC and this amazing speech would be fine, probably. If you weren't sure, you could ask the mods using MeMail/ the comment form before putting in the legwork, as I have done once or twice after my initial post was deleted as too light or too close to a double.

If you insist instead that this is about nobody who disagrees with you on this one issue of MetaFilter practice being as politically engaged as you, or indeed as American as you ... well, these are not narratives that will encourage respectful discussion, on either side. You wiil keep telling everyone else that you are better than them, and they will keep either objecting to that statement's message or mocking the hubris of its tone. We basically saw this happen already once this week, and it wasn't pretty.

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:27:52 -0800

(Oh, actually, what taz said. Flagged as redundant.)

By: that's how you get ants

that's how you get ants — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:28:49 -0800

I have been online for 17 minutes today, and I haven't looked at any political sites, yet this is the fourth time I've heard about this speech today.

If this was his worst speech ever, or his best speech ever, or a speech about how he prunes his roses, it doesn't matter. The thread will be the exact same thread we've had before about this election. 3 Republicans, 30 Democrats arguing with them, 10 Democrats bickering about Obama, and The Whelk or Greg Nog making jokes. Check the Popular Favorites page for what would have been the highlights.

If you want discussion of this particular event, well, open facebook, or twitter, or reddit, or any political site, or turn on the radio or the TV, or just turn to the guy next to you on the bus/at work/in line at the bank and say, hey, what about that speech? It's not going unanalyzed but it really doesn't need to be analyzed here.

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:33:10 -0800

I have been online for 17 minutes today, and I haven't looked at any political sites, yet this is the fourth time I've heard about this speech today.

Some people say that if everybody is talking about something then we shouldn't talk about it here. I don't agree.

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:33:43 -0800

So yeah, go figure how fast we're all processing this.

Tell it to the chair, Clint.

By: to sir with millipedes

to sir with millipedes — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:36:03 -0800

No, twoleftfeet, no one is saying that. What they're saying is "create an FPP that has more meat to it than 'Bill Clinton' gave a speech." But you're so aggrieved by this deletion, so set on letting us all know how "pathetic" we are, you can't rally and work on something a little more worth posting. (American - saw speech - political theater - don't give a shit)

By: MartinWisse

MartinWisse — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:36:34 -0800

Nobody is arguing that you can't talk about it, rather that this doesn't need a new post.

By: MartinWisse

MartinWisse — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:37:12 -0800

Or what to sir with milipedes said, who is clearly a faster typist than I.

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:37:29 -0800

The point of the speech seems important. We really should have a national conversation about our priorities, about the kind of world we should strive for in the future.

If an eloquent statesman can't make a plea for a future where we try to make a better world for everyone, if I can't make a fucking post about that, then where are we going? Is this what we want?

By: that's how you get ants

that's how you get ants — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:38:53 -0800

Some people say that if everybody is talking about something then we shouldn't talk about it here. I don't agree.

Well, you are saying that if nobody is talking about it here that means that nobody gives a shit.

By: crunchland

crunchland — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:39:45 -0800

Quit digging, twoleftfeet. Your basic premise here is flawed. Your implication that non-american moderators should keep their hands off of weak political single link "this thing happened" threads, when you know that any of them would have ditched your weak-ass post just as quickly as Vacapinta did. So why not just admit that you made a lousy post that got deleted, and that this thread was just as flawed, and quit with the 'taking on all comers' stance you've done since.

By: The Master and Margarita Mix

The Master and Margarita Mix — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:40:57 -0800

Has anyone come up with a taxonomy of aggrieved MeTa posters? Because I feel like this post is now a shining example of a known pathology and I'd like to have a convenient term for it.

By: Burhanistan

Burhanistan — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:41:16 -0800

Dude, you are being an obtuse fucknut.

By: meech

meech — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:42:27 -0800

if I can't make a fucking post about that

You can. It just has to be a good one.

By: His thoughts were red thoughts

His thoughts were red thoughts — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:43:12 -0800

Whatever you think of Clinton, or Obama, or the election... I was just trying to point out that I really do think Clinton gave an amazing speech.

Yes we get that. But it was a bad post.

It went on for 48 minutes, it was largely ad-lib, it tried to lay out the differences between the political positions at stake in the coming election.

Yes, no political speeches ever, ever do this. Nosiree, unprecedented. Politicians never ever point out the differences between themselves and their opponents.

Maybe we don't care anymore about political speeches. "Hey, Lincoln... wrap up that Gettysburg Address... we've got to go to commercial!"

This is a terrible comparison. The Gettysburg Address is 274 words long. It pretty much comes prewrapped up.

I just liked that speech. The post got deleted.

Because you made a shitty post, with no context. The quality of the speech doesn't even enter into it.

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:43:33 -0800

Dude, you are being an obtuse fucknut.

I forgive you for your ignorance.

I'm outta here.

By: Busy Old Fool

Busy Old Fool — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:44:49 -0800

I'd like to see more threads about non-Anglophone politics, myself.

I'm only passingly familiar with a handful of non-Anglophone political systems, but some of the discussions I've seen on them here have been so poor that I've not even bothered to try to correct the rampant ignorance. Hopefully that's not representative, because I share your enthusiasm for using Metafilter to learn about things that aren't all over the English-speaking news.

By: lampshade

lampshade — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:45:10 -0800

Is this what we want?

What we want is a bit more than a standard C&P news link. The problem is was not the content, but the execution of the post.

It was a great speech and hit on all sorts of points worth discussing. It was also a speech that deserved far more than a 17 word FPP.

By: His thoughts were red thoughts

His thoughts were red thoughts — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:48:29 -0800

I forgive you for your ignorance.

posted by twoleftfeet at 11:43 PM on September 6 [+] [!]

Wow. Just wow. There is enough irony and WTF here to choke a horse.

Not that you should choke a horse. You should pat them. And give them apples. And sugar.

By: chavenet

chavenet — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:56:05 -0800

"Hey, Lincoln... wrap up that Gettysburg Address... we've got to go to commercial!"

Do you know the Gettsyburg Address? It's _really_ short. Took Lincoln "a few minutes" to give.

I'm just saying.

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent a new nation, conceived in liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

Now we are engaged in a great civil war, testing whether that nation, or any nation, so conceived and so dedicated, can long endure. We are met on a great battle-field of that war. We have come to dedicate a portion of that field, as a final resting place for those who here gave their lives that that nation might live. It is altogether fitting and proper that we should do this.

But, in a larger sense, we can not dedicate, we can not consecrate, we can not hallow this ground. The brave men, living and dead, who struggled here, have consecrated it, far above our poor power to add or detract. The world will little note, nor long remember what we say here, but it can never forget what they did here. It is for us the living, rather, to be dedicated here to the unfinished work which they who fought here have thus far so nobly advanced. It is rather for us to be here dedicated to the great task remaining before us—that from these honored dead we take increased devotion to that cause for which they gave the last full measure of devotion—that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain—that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom—and that government of the people, by the people, for the people, shall not perish from the earth.

By: octothorpe

octothorpe — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:56:40 -0800

If an eloquent statesman can't make a plea for a future where we try to make a better world for everyone, if I can't make a fucking post about that, then where are we going?

Bill did his job with the speech, if you can't make a decent post about it, then it's your fault, not the mods.

By: item

item — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:56:44 -0800

twoleftfeet, your posts are among my very favorite here on Mefi. This post completely fucking sucked. I really don't have a problem with political posts, either, though I tend to avoid the ensuing threads as the comments in them are usually made up of the same half-dozen impassioned mouthpieces squabbling back and forth and back and forth.

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 04:57:36 -0800

Time spent arguing about whether you post should have been deleted or arguing about this MeTa is time that could have been better spent crafting a better post about the subject. It's better to be creative than destructive.

Apologies for mansplaining.

By: His thoughts were red thoughts

His thoughts were red thoughts — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:00:10 -0800

Brandon, you are totally my hero of the day.

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:02:04 -0800

I'm not wearing anything under this spandex.

By: that's how you get ants

that's how you get ants — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:06:35 -0800

You know what? I can't believe I started my day arguing about arguing about politics. I apologize if I added any grump to anyone else's morning.

By: Elmore

Elmore — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:11:13 -0800

Are we not using GYOB anymore?

By: His thoughts were red thoughts

His thoughts were red thoughts — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:16:13 -0800

I'm not wearing anything under this spandex.

You always know just the right thing to say.

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:18:39 -0800

You know what? I can't believe I started my day arguing about arguing about politics.

You better call Kenny Loggins. 'Cause you're in the danger zone.

Are we not using GYOB anymore?

No, that brand of lube has been recalled. You should see a doctor, pronto.

By: Narrative Priorities

Narrative Priorities — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:21:53 -0800

Maybe it's because I just woke up, but this thread reads like a surreal work of performance art.

Am I still dreaming? Did this really happen? Was Twoleftfeet sleep posting?

By: scalefree

scalefree — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:22:08 -0800

USian mods or not

Needs more mansplaining.

By: Dysk

Dysk — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:22:47 -0800

Isn't this just naked racism?

[/troll]

By: crunchland

crunchland — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:27:08 -0800

And here is the most eloquent rebuttal to this metatalk post. Thanks, Brandon.

By: Chrysostom

Chrysostom — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:30:50 -0800

Silenced all my life.

By: TedW

TedW — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:32:13 -0800

Is it just my perception or has the mood on MeTa been particularly grumpy over the past few days? I'm hoping I don't get my head chewed off just for making this speculation.

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:36:08 -0800

Are we not using GYOB anymore?

No, that brand of lube has been recalled. You should see a doctor, pronto.

Like the guy in the $3000 suit would risk getting petroleum jelly on it COME ON!

(Oh, GYOB. Sorry.)

By: blue_beetle

blue_beetle — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:38:24 -0800

Just because our crazy uncle likes to yell and scream every 4 years, doesn't mean we have to all gather `round and listen.

By: Karmakaze

Karmakaze — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:38:27 -0800

TedW: "Is it just my perception or has the mood on MeTa been particularly grumpy over the past few days? I'm hoping I don't get my head chewed off just for making this speculation."

Go back one thread and read about the babby. Babies make everything better.

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:39:13 -0800

Babies make everything better.

Change my diaper.

By: wolfdreams01

wolfdreams01 — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:39:20 -0800

If you're basically advocating for people to be able to go crazy and post anything they want for a limited period of time (which it certainly sounds like you're doing), I support that - but we should at least make it more egalitarian, so everybody has an equal chance to participate. I nominate April 1st as "Metafilter Insanity Day" where people can say or post anything they want without limitations... until the following day, when an automated script would delete anything posted during that timeframe. That gives all of us a chance to "get things off our chest," not just politically minded Mefites.

By: stavrosthewonderchicken

stavrosthewonderchicken — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:42:37 -0800

Hey there, buddy, your arrogant presumption about 'us' and the state of 'our' Americanness really opens up my nose. Opens it right the fuck up.

I'm actually quite keen to read what Mefites have to say, about politics, even US politics, as with most things, but.

I'm not American, a very large number of us are not American, and I think most of us are entirely happy with that.

By: Egg Shen

Egg Shen — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:44:12 -0800

Is it just my perception or has the mood on MeTa been particularly grumpy over the past few days?

That was my perception too. But after checking, there weren't as many aggro posts as I expectec. So maybe it's just that the aggro posts there have been were exceptionally grar-

Everyone should go read the BABBY thread and look at the baby. Cuz damn, that's a cute baby.

By: Chrysostom

Chrysostom — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:44:50 -0800

Karmakaze: "Babies make everything better."

Not sleeping, certainly.

By: Bugbread

Bugbread — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:45:28 -0800

I just enjoy the surreal statement "I give a shit about the political situation in the United States. If you don't give a similar shit, please don't try to stop me from caring about it.", and its implication that deleting a post is telling the poster to stop caring what they posted about.

So if I posted about my wife, or my sons, or my parents, and a mod deleted it, the mod wouldn't just be deleting a post, but would be actively trying to prevent me from caring about my family.

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:45:48 -0800

they need to let us get crazy about this.

There are many many things that we do not need to let you get crazy about. Just make a better post on the topic and you'll be able to talk about what you want to talk about, no problem. There is absolutely no moratorium on talking about things but "here is one more data point on the ongoing political machine in the US" isn't really a great way to make a post that is relevant and interesting to the MeFi population.

The point of the speech seems important. We really should have a national conversation about our priorities, about the kind of world we should strive for in the future.

I really do not disagree with you here at all. The post you made was really not getting this across. This MeTa post is also really not getting this across. I sort of feel that if we care about the content of the stuff that we put into posts, if we want to talk about it in a decent meaningful way, that it's on us to make the posts help spur that discussion and be present in the thread to help the discussion be the one you want to have. That thread [and this one] are not those. I get that you care deeply about this, many of us do, but the remedy you suggest is not the path to better political discourse.

That said, no one should have called you a fucknut, please do not do that here.

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:56:56 -0800

Hey Jessamyn. My post was this: Did Bill Clinton just give the best nominating speech ever? Here's the full speech.

Think about this for a moment. The post is pretty simple. It's grammatically correct. It's not a double. It doesn't insult anybody.

It was deleted within minutes of my post, so that's why this here MetaTalk thread.

No harm intended.

By: Gygesringtone

Gygesringtone — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:58:40 -0800

"Babies make everything better."

Not sleeping, certainly.

Not at first, but once you make it through the night, you learn to savor sleep in a way that you wouldn't think was possible for an activity that you are unconscious for.

Also, they make better pillows than one would suspect.

By: tilde

tilde — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 05:59:04 -0800

What would be interesting is an analysis of the ad-lib stylings of Clinton and Eastwood, maybe ...

only maybe, though.

(on preview of (this)):

Just make a better post on the topic and you'll be able to talk about what you want to talk about, no problem. Seems to still stand.

By: shothotbot

shothotbot — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:01:03 -0800

Your premise (of non-US mods trying to keep politics out of metafilter) was wrong, your post was bad, and there is a better one on the same topic up and thriving. So why are you still trying to convince everyone that you were cheated out of something?

Go gloat about the best nominating speech ever in the new thread.

By: zarq

zarq — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:01:08 -0800

The Master and Margarita Mix: "Has anyone come up with a taxonomy of aggrieved MeTa posters? Because I feel like this post is now a shining example of a known pathology and I'd like to have a convenient term for it."

They're all part of Dante's Internet. Pick a circle.

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:07:38 -0800

I don't mean to insult the mods.

Hey Jessamyn. My post was this...

You seem to be unclear on how we do things here. That's fine, there's no reason that you have to understand all the ins and outs of how we do our job. But it might be useful for you to know that yes we can see your deleted post and yes now that the US mods are waking up we, too, would have deleted that post if we saw it because it's Yet Another "here's a speech" Post in a time of the year where there are a metric shitton of speeches and it might be a good idea to explain to people why this one is so great that it deserves its own nearly context-free post.

There are reasons things get deleted that aren't because they're error-ridden, insulting or duplicates. Especially this time of yer. There are ways to make posts that don't get deleted. Some people understand that concept more than others. We've talked to you about this pretty consistently over the last several years and you've gotten some good community feedback here. Your "please chill out" and "you need to let us go crazy" demands are not really realistic and your premises are flawed. There is a giant internet where you can fight with other people about politics and/or have a "best speech ever AMIRITE" discussion. If you'd like to have that discussion here, please make a better post. Someone else has done that for this topic, you can try again for the next time.

By: Gygesringtone

Gygesringtone — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:07:38 -0800

Think about this for a moment.

You seem to be under the impression that if everyone just thinks really hard about your brilliance, they'll get why this was a mistake. MAYBE, just maybe, they have thought about it, and still think it was too thin of a post for Metafilter.

I've thought about it, and you know what? I agree.

It's pretty insulting to assume that someone disagrees with you just because they haven't thought about it like you.

The speech is, posted on the front page. With context and everything. You got what you wanted, the staff got what they wanted (a post that wasn't just "here's the video"). If you stop trying so damn hard to get us to see you're right, and we were just disagreeing because we hadn't seen the light of your rightness, we can all walk away from this with everyone a winner.

By: gman

gman — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:07:39 -0800

Narrative Priorities: Maybe it's because I just woke up, but this thread reads like a surreal work of performance art.

Am I still dreaming? Did this really happen? Was Twoleftfeet sleep posting?

This must be your first time at the famous twoleftfeet show. Most of us have season tickets.

By: Rock Steady

Rock Steady — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:07:56 -0800

There used to be a recurring Saturday Night Live sketch called "The Celine Dion Show" where the premise was Celine Dion had a talk show that she would invite famous singers to. Every time, she would implore them to sing a song, and when they finally agreed, she would jump in mid-verse and just bury them with her ridiculous vocal histrionics. Afterwards, she would gushingly apologize. "Oh no," she would say, "I was singing your song better than you! I am so sorry!" It's become a catch phrase in my family. Any time someone beats someone else at their own game, they are "singing your song better than you." Sorry, twoleftfeet, but Brandon Blatcher just sang your song better than you.

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:16:37 -0800

I don't insult easily. But someone just compared me to Celine Dion.

I'm outta here. See you tomorrow.

By: Egg Shen

Egg Shen — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:17:34 -0800

I missed the first sentence of that and believed it was a real thing.

By: cjorgensen

cjorgensen — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:18:15 -0800

I guess fate demands a flameout thread when one is needed for the pruning. Close one avenue and another forms.

By: His thoughts were red thoughts

His thoughts were red thoughts — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:18:18 -0800

Metafilter: your demands are not really realistic and your premises are flawed.

By: His thoughts were red thoughts

His thoughts were red thoughts — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:19:45 -0800

I'm outta here. See you tomorrow.

This is literally the third time you have said this in here. Maybe this one's the charm.

By: Rock Steady

Rock Steady — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:20:22 -0800

Technically, Brandon is Celine in this scenario.

By: The Master and Margarita Mix

The Master and Margarita Mix — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:20:33 -0800

I'm outta here. See you tomorrow.

Not one single person in this thread has agreed with the premise of your OP or your approach to defending it. Not one. None. No one.

Think about that.

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:21:36 -0800

My post was this: Did Bill Clinton just give the best nominating speech ever? Here's the full speech.

Think about this for a moment. The post is pretty simple. It's grammatically correct. It's not a double. It doesn't insult anybody.

It's also nothing more than a "here this is" post.

It says nothing about what you were in here saying you wanted to say.

It says nothing about why the speech is "the best nominating speech ever". It does not compare his speech TO other nominating speeches in order to let us judge that.

It says nothing about rhetoric, to allow us to consider how rhetoric can be used to effect in speeches.

It is nothing more than "here's the full speech. I like it."

That kind of "here's a link, I like it" post is very commonly found on Twitter and Facebook. Think about that for a moment.

By: batmonkey

batmonkey — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:28:19 -0800

My skin gets all crawly when people do that insistent patronising thing. Urgh.

By: inturnaround

inturnaround — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:29:25 -0800

A man said to the universe:
"Sir, I exist!"
"However," replied the universe,
"The fact has not created in me
"A sense of obligation."

-Stephen Crane

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:31:17 -0800

I guess fate demands a flameout thread when one is needed for the pruning. Close one avenue and another forms.

That's a very good point. Since there is now a Bill Clinton DNC speech thread, and twoleftfeet has left the thread (for now, at least), and literally nobody endorses or agrees with his/her position, so it seems it's unlikely to effect a change in MetaFilter policy... is there a case for closing this thread also, to protect the OP from the consequences of their own poor framing?

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:32:14 -0800

That kind of "here's a link, I like it" post is very commonly found on Twitter and Facebook. Think about that for a moment.

Oh bullshit. I have no idea how these cats got squished into their little scanners or for what possible reason, moral, financial, political or otherwise, could have compelled humans to do such a horrible thing. I would provide a secondary link or two, elaborating on the phenomenon of cat squashing, but the basic posting interface encourages just a primary link with a textual hook.

I am so outta here. This time I mean it.

By: pointystick

pointystick — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:33:54 -0800

I am picturing Brandon with long, flowing locks, a microphone, and a sequined dress singing My Heart Will Go On now. This has made my morning.

By: His thoughts were red thoughts

His thoughts were red thoughts — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:35:22 -0800

We have already established that Brandon wears spandex. But I see no reason why the spandex can't be covered in sequins.

By: Drastic

Drastic — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:35:38 -0800

I think there's a case for closing the thread to spare everyone from perpetual I Am Outta Heres.

By: inturnaround

inturnaround — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:35:55 -0800

I am so outta here. This time I mean it.

You've lost the impact of your initial mic drop ages ago.

I seriously have no idea why you're so angry, though.

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:37:03 -0800

I think there's a case for closing the thread to spare everyone from perpetual I Am Outta Heres.

Not until someone quotes The State, though!

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:37:34 -0800

I am so outta here. This time I mean it.

See you in a couple minutes.

By: inturnaround

inturnaround — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:37:51 -0800

I'm Doug and I'm outta heeeeere.

DONE!

By: filthy light thief

filthy light thief — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:37:58 -0800

This was Clinton's best speech of his life. Really.

I've seen a few of Clinton's speeches, but not nearly enough to be able to qualify something as The Best of His Life. I, for one, would like some context.

And the difference between SLYT animal videos and SLYT political videos is that everyone likes animals, but politics raises the GRAR. Everyone needs hugs and puppies/kitties, no one needs more GRAR.

By: pompomtom

pompomtom — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:38:28 -0800

"Out of" - is it really that hard?

By: Sailormom

Sailormom — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:39:05 -0800

I was never here to begin with.

By: His thoughts were red thoughts

His thoughts were red thoughts — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:41:26 -0800

Hey, guys? Can I tell you a secret? I totally enjoyed this thread. It was kinda like that movie Groundhog Day. Except nobody learned anything.

Night, all.

By: Chrysostom

Chrysostom — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:45:33 -0800

EmpressCallipygos: "That kind of "here's a link, I like it" post is very commonly found on Twitter and Facebook. Think about that for a moment."

Well, I DO think there is a role in the Metafilter ecosystem for single link posts. But agreed that they should be "here's this cool/interesting thing I bet you didn't see" rather than "here's what every news site on the internet is talking about this morning."

By: h00py

h00py — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:52:37 -0800

I learned that fucknut has a certain resonance to it.

By: Decani

Decani — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:53:01 -0800

I'm going to fight this one. One day you will understand.
posted by twoleftfeet at 10:41 AM on September 6

This was the point at which I realised what terrific fun this thread was going to be.

By: JohnnyGunn

JohnnyGunn — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:53:01 -0800

I have met Bill Clinton. He is a charming, intelligent and well spoken man. He also loves ice cream (I talked to him once while on line getting ice cream). In fact, he was waxing eloquently about the deep chocolate flavor of the chocolate and how with all the new fancy flavors it is sometimes hard to just get a great chocolate cone. He prefers sugar cones by the way. His little speech in the local ice cream shop in Chappaqua lasted about 3 minutes, was totally ad-libed and was only heard by about 15 people, 7 of whom were under the age of 10, but I would tell you that you can take all the paid speeches he makes and all the political ones like last night and put them in the 2nd place pile as the speech he gave about chocolate ice cream was the best one he ever gave. Too bad only 15 of us were there to hear it.

By: psoas

psoas — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:54:11 -0800

I would provide a secondary link or two, elaborating on the phenomenon of cat squashing, but the basic posting interface encourages just a primary link with a textual hook.

Dude, you're being unnecessarily rude and there's nothing left to argue about. Let it go. Just chill out and watch some Sex House.

Episode 9 is coming! Episode 9 is coming!

By: h00py

h00py — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:54:12 -0800

And it's not gendered so no-one can be offended! (except for fucknuts, of course)

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:55:07 -0800

We've talked about this a little bit before, but it's worth a reminder around election time

- People would like this
- People would be interested by this
- People would enjoy discussing this

Are all usually okay jumping off points for a post.

- People SHOULD know this
- People NEED to read/watch this
- I'd like to argue with people about this

Are less good. Not that people can't have spirited debates about topics, but that there are a bunch of fraught topics that are not only difficult to discuss but that also have people who are very aggressive about their own views on the subject and can sometimes refuse to acknowledge or respect other opinions. This makes it difficult sometimes to grok that each of us are just one person on a very large website, making your own "This is important" assertion repeatedly can make it difficult for an organic discussion to emerge.

By: h00py

h00py — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 06:56:25 -0800

I'm thinking nut as in pistachio, macadamia, pecan, cashew stop naming nuts , not testicles.

By: The Master and Margarita Mix

The Master and Margarita Mix — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:00:13 -0800

I'm thinking nut as in pistachio, macadamia, pecan, cashew stop naming nuts , not testicles.

Leaving aside the "fuck" part, which is sort of an important qualifier, nuts already are effectively analogous to testicles. Maybe ovaries. Gonads, anyway.

By: h00py

h00py — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:01:43 -0800

Yes. And the fuck bit rhymes!

By: Chichibio

Chichibio — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:02:16 -0800

I, for one, would like some context. And the difference between SLYT animal videos and SLYT political videos is that everyone likes animals, but politics raises the GRAR. Everyone needs hugs and puppies/kitties, no one needs more GRAR.

That's the key difference that twoleftfeet seems to be missing (their 252 non-deleted posts notwithstanding): Cute Animal SLYTs usually require little to no context in order to work as Here's A Cool Thing I've Found On The Web, whereas Regional Politics SLYTs almost always require some contextual framing to work - and the bar is much higher for American political FPPs, which become ubiquitous as weeds every four years, are usually comprised of stuff found on the front page of most major American newspapers, and yeah, tend to raise the grar as you pointed out.

Hey, guys? Can I tell you a secret? I totally enjoyed this thread. It was kinda like that movie Groundhog Day. Except nobody learned anything.

I learned that Brandon is actually a superhuman Celine Dion - this is enlightening.

By: Jehan

Jehan — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:02:55 -0800

I'm going to ask the moderators from other countries not to interfere with our discussion of American politics. It's more difficult for them to deal with this, because we can all get crazy every four years about this and we need to do that, and they need to let us get crazy about this. I'm not going to mention specific instances, but they exist. Please chill out about this. Things will get back to normal afterwards.

What is this, the political equivalent of pon farr?

By: tilde

tilde — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:03:06 -0800

I thought it was fucknugget.

/the more you know

By: languagehat

languagehat — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:11:30 -0800

Man, there have been some stupid, shitty, insulting MeTa posts lately, and this one appears to have been made in bad faith as well, judging from the poster's later comments ("Whatever"). Is it just the election season, or is it truly the End Times?

By: roomthreeseventeen

roomthreeseventeen — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:11:58 -0800

+1000. I just had a perfectly good political post deleted. I'm seriously spending much more time at reddit these days. MeFi is way too overmoderated.

By: tilde

tilde — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:18:46 -0800

but, roomthreeseventeen, there are lots of them out there that aren't transcribed because people don't get reddit, coulda linked a few more? Context? Or collected them on projects ...

By: lazaruslong

lazaruslong — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:19:01 -0800

Enjoy reddit! Don't let the blue door hit ya on the way out etc

By: gilrain

gilrain — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:19:37 -0800

You definitely swung the voting in your favor, with that cunning +1000... however, I just cast a secret ballot of +2000, so unless some smartass comes along with a +infinity (although I do have an infinity+1 ace in the hole, here), my side of the argument should be doing pretty well.

By: to sir with millipedes

to sir with millipedes — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:20:15 -0800

I don't understand how any woman could prefer the jailbait ogling, photobucket hacking MRA crow at Reddit over Metafilter. Different strokes, I guess.

By: to sir with millipedes

to sir with millipedes — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:21:04 -0800

MRA crowd. Not MRA crow. Ice Cream for Crow.

By: FAMOUS MONSTER

FAMOUS MONSTER — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:24:50 -0800

MRA crow

memegenerator, here i come

By: cribcage

cribcage — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:26:19 -0800

After reading this MetaTalk and then seeing the resulting thread with 100+ comments, I was positive that I'd open the latter to find some really insightful, compelling comments from TwoLeftFeet. Seriously, no snark. Oratory is a big deal to me, and while I don't agree with this MeTa complaint it seemed clear that he cared a lot about this speech and wanted to talk about it. I was looking forward to seeing what he had to say.

Zero comments.

I'm not going to speculate about why that might be, but I find it odd and kind of disappointing. We really don't need another political thread, and certainly not one solely focused on a retired politician giving a good-but-routine speech at a nominating convention—but setting that aside, we need insightful commentary in such threads a lot more than we needed this MeTa.

By: gman

gman — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:29:55 -0800

languagehat: Man, there have been some stupid, shitty, insulting MeTa posts lately...

Lots of stupid, shitty, and insulting comments as well, but all we can do is call people out for them, I guess.

By: Ice Cream Socialist

Ice Cream Socialist — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:32:56 -0800

Man, there have been some stupid, shitty, insulting MeTa posts lately, and this one appears to have been made in bad faith as well

This has been happening quite a bit recently. You're one of several commenters on Metafilter who I always read, because your contributions are generally perceptive, intelligent, informative, and well-written.

Of late, though, I feel like I've fallen victim to a bait-and-switch when I see your comments in Metatalk. Often they appear fairly late in the discussion, after most of the flames have died down, and they are usually harsh and ugly condemnations, utterly uncompromising, with insulting and damning language, seemingly engineered to fan the embers back into flames.

It doesn't matter that I usually agree with your basic stance. I take your other contributions as great examples, and it upsets me to see you turn mean. What you write is up to you, and what I read is up to me.

I hope things get better, that's all.

By: h00py

h00py — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:35:36 -0800

It's not mean to express when you get the shits about something. That seems to be the crux of this whole issue, it seems to me.

By: crunchland

crunchland — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:36:17 -0800

I just had a perfectly good political post deleted. I'm seriously spending much more time at reddit these days. MeFi is way too overmoderated. -- For what it's worth, your post was as weak as twoleftfeet's was. I hope they appreciate ill-conceived, half-assed, not trying very hard at all posts over at reddit.

By: Decani

Decani — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:39:11 -0800

I don't understand how any woman could prefer the jailbait ogling, photobucket hacking MRA crow at Reddit over Metafilter.
posted by to sir with millipedes

This again? Seriously? Why, it's like some people positively enjoy their prejudices.

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:39:44 -0800

I learned that Brandon is actually a superhuman Celine Dion...

It's clobbering your ears time!

By: The Master and Margarita Mix

The Master and Margarita Mix — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:46:32 -0800

I don't understand how any woman could prefer the jailbait ogling, photobucket hacking MRA crow at Reddit over Metafilter. Different strokes, I guess.

I have a vagina and I hate Reddit, but none of those reasons bother me. "Real Women Do This": not actually feminist.

By: Chichibio

Chichibio — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:48:02 -0800

Whatta revoltin' development this is!

By: John Cohen

John Cohen — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 07:51:28 -0800

I make a simple post saying that it was an amazing speech, and my post gets deleted

Sounds like a good deletion.

By: rtha

rtha — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 08:04:45 -0800

Jesus. I'd rather have a post deleted here than get the metric ton of shit from reddit for posting something meh. There are also lots of free platforms for your own blog, where you don't have to suffer any moderation at all.

By: cortex

cortex — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 08:18:55 -0800

This was Clinton's best speech of his life. Really.

It's four years ago. The election is getting into high gear. Obama gives a speech that a lot of people think is rather good; a few rather poor posts about it get made and deleted with e.g. the suggestion of either letting it gel a bit or putting together a better post about it. People talk it out in Metatalk.

Then somebody does this, and we end up with a front page post that turned out to be one of the worst threads of that entire election cycle.

And it really was a pretty good speech, but four years later people are not spontaneously bursting into anecdotes about "arguably the most important speech any politician has made in many decades" because it turns out that giving a speech is sort of a normal thing to do while running for office and that while being very good at it is a feather in one's cap, a little arm's-length perspective reveals very nearly all speeches to not be earth-shaking, rules-breaking, just-can't-wait-for-a-reasonably-solid-effort kinds of events, even ones that people feel pretty excited about when they've just happened.

I fully appreciate being moved by, excited about, interested in discussing, etc. a speech you think was very good. Making a good post about it is not very hard. Taking a little time to put it in context (historical or contemporary) isn't very hard. Barring all that, going to any other place on the internet to do the breathless one-liner is not very hard if you can't manage the above, because Metafilter is not and will not ever be everything to everyone, especially as far as relentless politicsfilter updates go, and there's absolute miles of additional internet out there beyond our front page.

I just had a perfectly good political post deleted.

No, to be clear, this was not a perfectly good post. It's fine if you feel like it was a good piece of writing, and as something to mention in a thread that was already on topic it'd be a totally fine comment, but that's different from being front page material.

It's cool if you are feeling more comfortable at reddit. I figure whatever makes people happy is what they should be doing. That you are more comfortable at reddit is not really a Metafilter issue, however.

I thought restless_nomad was Australian, btw?

Austinian. Very similar. Gets too warm. A lot of tan people. Many bars.

By: jacquilynne

jacquilynne — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 08:27:24 -0800

Here's a suggestion for future American makers of American current events posts:

Before posting, flip through each of the cable news channels (or, through their home pages if you lack cable access), if what you want to post about is currently being talked about on more than one of them, a Metafilter thread is unnecessary because we all already know it's happening.

Even those of us who aren't in America.

By: Curious Artificer

Curious Artificer — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 08:30:31 -0800

Gets too warm. A lot of tan people. Many bars.

You forgot "indecipherable accents".

By: griphus

griphus — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 08:34:26 -0800

memegenerator, here i come

You had an hour.

By: FAMOUS MONSTER

FAMOUS MONSTER — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 08:39:40 -0800

respect.

By: Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish

Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 08:40:24 -0800

Austinian. Very similar. Gets too warm. A lot of tan people. Many bars.

An overlap which must never become complete, lest the spiders acquire automatic weapons.

By: GenjiandProust

GenjiandProust — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 08:46:19 -0800

Geeze. That was not a great post, and twoleftfeet led with an insulting and mildly incoherent "pony" (I mean, how is this supposed to work -- can moderators who don't like sports delete sports FPPs? Can those with cats be allowed to delete dog videos? where would this stop). However, responding with a pile on of name-calling and snide comments is also insulting and incoherent, and I wish we could do less of that.

I mean, I get it. His post was weak, his request inflammatory, and his defense of a basically indefensible position was ill-judged, but we do have the power to not stoke the flames, right? Wouldn't a couple of "no, you are wrong; this is a bad idea" comments been enough?

By: GenjiandProust

GenjiandProust — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 08:47:38 -0800

An overlap which must never become complete, lest the spiders acquire automatic weapons.

Fortunately or not, in Austin, the spiders are kept under control by the fire ants, which have better contacts among weapons dealers.

By: arcticseal

arcticseal — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 08:49:51 -0800

Sorry, twoleftfeet, but WHAT? I think you underestimate just how well informed those of us from outside the States (and plenty of us have lived there) are about US politics.

Bad pony, frankly poor excuse for a MeTa.

By: MCMikeNamara

MCMikeNamara — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 08:49:58 -0800

An overlap which must never become complete, lest the spiders acquire automatic weapons.

Screenplay challenge accepted!

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 08:49:59 -0800

... but we do have the power to not stoke the flames, right?

Everyone usually wants to do a little 'splainin'

By: GenjiandProust

GenjiandProust — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 08:53:13 -0800

Everyone usually wants to do a little 'splainin'

Sure, but "wants to" doesn't mean "ought to" or, heaven forfend, "has to."

By: Falconetti

Falconetti — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 08:54:17 -0800

Everyone usually wants to do a little 'splainin'

That's the second time you referenced you know what in this thread. Can we just drop it, even as a joke? Let this shit burn away and hopefully we can get some new growth forest.

By: crunchland

crunchland — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 08:54:38 -0800

we do have the power to not stoke the flames, right? -- The gas can was in his hands. Had he not continued to debate his point - a position I can completely empathize with - and just waited for the definitive slapdown he knew he was going to get once Jess or Cortex logged in, you wouldn't even be suggesting this metaphor.

By: octobersurprise

octobersurprise — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 08:55:59 -0800

I saw the speech. It was really a very fine speech and although personally, I may think that speech he gave that morning in 1993 when he shook my hand, stared piercingly into my eyes and said in his best Clintonian husk, "I need your support," was Bill's high water mark, I could be convinced that, given the circumstances, last night's speech was his best ever.

I still don't think the world will end if the speech isn't highlighted on metafilter. Life, unfortunately, goes on.

My disillusionment with the Democratic party precludes watching another Bill Clinton speech. I don't care how good it is.

Aww. This reminds me of the guy on my twitter feed who tweeted something like "awkward seeing America's colonies like Guam cast votes for an imperialist." To which I very nearly replied "why more awkward than casting votes from a state founded on the evacuation of its indigenous inhabitants?"

By: something something

something something — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 08:57:21 -0800

These posts complaining about heavy-handed moderation are always such a combination of amusing and confusing to me. Have you guys seen the rest of the internet? This is one of the few sites left with intelligent discourse and there is a reason for that. Individual users may not agree with specific deletions but good lord, taken as a whole the moderation on this site is stellar and is the major reason I joined up here after lurking for a couple of years.

also, I hate election season and I am an American with a degree in political science who loves Bill Clinton.

By: modernnomad

modernnomad — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 08:58:56 -0800

This is stupid pony that ought to be put out of its misery, but a pony I would happily feed and nurture would be a separate PoliticsFilter subsite. I know it's been talked to death and it'll never happen, but I still think it'd be good. The one that was set up by a member here as a substitute just doesn't get the traffic that an actual subsite on the main page would.

Or maybe just a temporary "USElectionFilter" subsite every 4 years with slightly more relaxed posting standards? I'm not American, but I sure do get a kick out of American politics and there's a lot of good people around here I'd enjoy chatting about with, especially around election season.

By: octobersurprise

octobersurprise — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 09:03:05 -0800

gave that morning in 1993

1992! 1992. The force of the Big Dog resurgent has me all befuddled.

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 09:07:05 -0800

I know it's been talked to death and it'll never happen, but I still think it'd be good.

We will never do it. People are welcome to try to create one on their own. SportsFilter and other spin-off sites often do quite well.

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 09:21:31 -0800

twoleftfeet: “I give a shit about the political situation in the United States.”

No, you don't. You give a shit about political conventions in the United States. Those two things are mutually exclusive.

By: zabuni

zabuni — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 09:25:03 -0800

I am getting tired of the special pleading I have seen in recent posts on Metatalk.

By special pleading I mean that people believe that whatever subject they are discussing, whether it be feminism, or MRA, or politics, or pet adoption, that their topic is so important, it requires an exception from the rules. Whether this be the basic standards of conduct in commenting, or rules about what makes a good FPP.

There are very few exceptions to the "rules" on Metafilter. I put rules in quotes because we don't usually have hard and fast rules, but guidelines judged by the mods. But no, you don't get an exception to go crazy about something.

I believe that everyone has something they are unreasonable about, something they will go crazy over, whether this be in commenting or on the front page. If we let one person go crazy about something, or a group of people, we would be opening the door to people asking for similar exceptions to things they felt strongly (are unreasonable) about. Israel, abortion, politics, there are no shortage of these topics, and that's not counting the various small causes that people think everyone MUST KNOW about. I know that Metafiler seems like a giant amplifier of a person's voice, and even I have couple of posts I made where I wanted people to know about something (I have one of the last kickstarter posts before they made the rule), but Metafilter is a community discussion site, not a soap box.

By: AElfwine Evenstar

AElfwine Evenstar — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 09:30:16 -0800

If anyone is familiar with my handle they probably know what my opinion of American politics is, but I have to say after that speech I was ready to vote for Obama. I mean jesus tapdancing christ is Bill good. I don't think there has been a finer politician/rhetorician in American politics in the last 40 years.

By: moammargaret

moammargaret — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 09:30:46 -0800

Metafilter: Dude, you are being an obtuse fucknut.

By: AElfwine Evenstar

AElfwine Evenstar — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 09:31:23 -0800

But yeah I think the delete was a good one. I actually almost posted it myself, but then I realized I didn't want to spend the whole night trying to put together a fpp that wouldn't get deleted.

By: octobersurprise

octobersurprise — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 09:33:18 -0800

Everyone usually wants to do a little 'splainin'

Henceforth, I propose that we call the kind of explaining that only serves to fan the fires of strife, fansplaining.

By: catlet

catlet — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 09:43:15 -0800

I thought fansplaining was how you explain the strange marks you might have received at a Dragon*Con room party.

"Honey, really, Bob was just showing us his Indiana Jones cosplay bullwhip and...things got a little out of hand."

By: XMLicious

XMLicious — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 09:48:19 -0800

Also, more specifically when it's the kind of Shakesperian strife of a degree like that of Akira Kurosawa's film Ran, and the explanation results in several suicides, murders, murder-suicides, or castles being set on fire, we should call it 乱splaining.

By: Horace Rumpole

Horace Rumpole — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 09:52:04 -0800

Wouldn't a couple of "no, you are wrong; this is a bad idea" comments been enough?

The people who make these MetaTalk posts are laboring under the consistent delusion that they represent the true, popular voice of MetaFilter, one the moderators constantly fight to suppress--just look at all the first person plural in this post. I can 't think of any other way to make the true state of affairs clear to them than for a chorus of MeFites to repeat as often as necessary "No, you don't speak for us. No, we don't want the site choked with these posts. We want higher standards, and we want posts that don't meet them deleted. That is the MetaFilter we want."

By: mazola

mazola — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 09:58:33 -0800

There are non-american mods?

There are non-americans?

By: oneirodynia

oneirodynia — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 09:58:48 -0800

Leaving aside the "fuck" part, which is sort of an important qualifier, nuts already are effectively analogous to testicles. Maybe ovaries. Gonads, anyway.

Nope. Wombs. Nuts are not sexual organs; they contain and nurture baby plants. Testicles of plants are where pollen is produced, so "fuckbloom" makes more sense. Especially since "perfect" flowers contain both male and female parts and in some (not all) cases are self-fertile.

carry on.

By: Burhanistan

Burhanistan — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 10:01:47 -0800

It's not a portmanteau, it's its own special snowflake.

By: Evilspork

Evilspork — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 10:20:21 -0800

If I ever try to do something like this, someone please, please stop me.

By: griphus

griphus — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 10:20:57 -0800

snowmanteau?

By: Jehan

Jehan — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 10:22:43 -0800

There are non-americans?

Nah. We're just role-players, it's all made up like Dungeons & Dragons. I mean, c'mon, countries like Iceland couldn't possibly be real!

By: Chichibio

Chichibio — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 10:23:49 -0800

I can't understand why all the folks who want to talk about the upcoming American election don't just take it over to PoliticsFilter - there's bound to be some good discussion over there, amongst the woo wah support that marriage can be active on the net.

By: Chrysostom

Chrysostom — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 10:26:24 -0800

Jehan: "Nah. We're just role-players, it's all made up like Dungeons & Dragons. I mean, c'mon, countries like Iceland couldn't possibly be real!"

Actually, everyone but me is fictional. Solipsism!

By: gman

gman — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 10:34:40 -0800

Chichibio: I can't understand why all the folks who want to talk about the upcoming American election don't just take it over to PoliticsFilter - there's bound to be some good discussion over there...

Probably for the same reason the folks who love cat videos don't take the discussion over to catlovers.com or whatever site specializes in that shit.

By: griphus

griphus — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 10:34:48 -0800

I can assure you I have played in numerous D&D campaigns with countries more convincing than "Iceland."

I kid, I kid. Keflavík International Airport has a wonderful smoking lounge I spent an hour's layover in.

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 10:44:08 -0800

Keflavík International Airport has a wonderful smoking lounge I spent an hour's layover in.

I've actually never seen an airport look more like it was designed by Ikea.

By: RolandOfEld

RolandOfEld — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 10:49:52 -0800

Flashed back and read the linked reference above, I forget where and couldn't help but see this amazing retort to a previous, if a bit more contentious, situation like this one.

Flagged as fantastic.

By: tilde

tilde — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 10:58:21 -0800

If this is D&D, are the mods dual-wielding Nerf Bats?

"Where're the Cheetos?!"

Don't attack the the light with the darkness, dudes.

By: KathrynT

KathrynT — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 10:59:51 -0800

In election years, I kind of wish I could paypal each of the mods a beer.

By: wolfdreams01

wolfdreams01 — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 11:02:09 -0800

So if I posted about my wife, or my sons, or my parents, and a mod deleted it, the mod wouldn't just be deleting a post, but would be actively trying to prevent me from caring about my family.

What's worse is when the mods don't just try but actually succeed at this. How many relationships have been broken up, how many families have been abandoned, because the mods successfully prevented somebody from caring about their own family? Why, you heartless mods - why? If only you could see the damage that your callous deletions wreak on countless innocent lives!

By: RolandOfEld

RolandOfEld — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 11:03:49 -0800

I'd donate to round out that beer to a six pack... not a craft beer six pack of course, but something ok like Yuengling or something.

Hey, who do you think you are? I don't even buy good beer for family unless I know they like it... I've been burned too many times.

By: restless_nomad

restless_nomad — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 11:03:56 -0800

I just woke up, but am tickled that people think I am Australian. It is no doubt the "no worries" tic I picked up from Crocodile Dundee at age eight.

(But yeah, born in Chicagoland, live in Austin.)

By: Zed

Zed — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 11:06:00 -0800

Mathowie, jessamyn, cortex and taz are all American. (taz lives in Greece, but is American, as you'd see if you looked at her profile). Restless_nomad lives in the US according to her profile, though I guess she could be non-American. That leaves vacapinta [...]

Oh yeah? Well then how come NONE of them have revealed their birth certificates?!

By: misha

misha — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 11:16:39 -0800

Jehan: "Nah. We're just role-players, it's all made up like Dungeons & Dragons. I mean, c'mon, countries like Iceland couldn't possibly be real!"

Well then, somebody please point me to the Dungeonmaster, because I want to reroll my character.

I mean, seriously, no way my charisma is high enough, and why do I have to be so old? Brandon Blatcher is Super Celine Dion going commando in sequined spandex and what do I get? My next quest has me going out to the local grocery store in a doomed mission to find stinky food my diva cats will actually consume.

That is seriously messed up.

By: Atom Eyes

Atom Eyes — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 11:18:46 -0800

Sure, the mods might be technically American, but have they all taken the loyalty oath?

By: absalom

absalom — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 11:21:27 -0800

My favorite part is watching twoleftfeet go through a category five shitstorm about the deletion, and then NOT EVEN TAKING PART in the new, better thread on the same topic. Please, continue to pretend this is about a post-of-a-certain-type removed and not just a petulant axe grinding tantrum.

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 11:24:27 -0800

Oh yeah? Well then how come NONE of them have revealed their birth certificates?!

Once the charging station light turns green, you can unplug a mod and ask it questions.

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 11:45:23 -0800

I would ask the mods for their tax returns but they don't make any money.

By: Burhanistan

Burhanistan — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 11:47:51 -0800

They are paid well.

By: cortex

cortex — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 11:51:36 -0800

Gift cards. Everybody knows we get paid in gift cards.

By: griphus

griphus — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 12:00:33 -0800

I thought you re-negotiated your contract for TF2 hats instead.

By: Sidhedevil

Sidhedevil — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 12:05:44 -0800

Wonkette.com is a great place for all your "chatting intelligently and snarkily about US politics" needs. (I'm IceCreamEmpress over there.)

By: benito.strauss

benito.strauss — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 12:20:23 -0800

You know, this tantrum post may actually have been redeemed by the Bill Clinton ice cream story, (which I think is side-bar worthy).

But now that someone has mentioned ice cream for crow, now now now, now I can go. I'm outta here.

By: patheral

patheral — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 12:23:29 -0800

My next quest has me going out to the local grocery store in a doomed mission to find stinky food my diva cats will actually consume.

That is seriously messed up.
posted by misha at 1:16 PM on September 6 [2 favorites −] Favorite added! [!]

Weird, we have the same quest...

By: Rodrigo Lamaitre

Rodrigo Lamaitre — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 12:30:36 -0800

Gift cards. Everybody knows we get paid in gift cards.

I finally understand why you had such large donuts. Gotta spend that Costco money somewhere...

By: zarq

zarq — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:25:54 -0800

twoleftfeet: " I'm going to fight this one. One day you will understand."

twoleftfeet: "I'm going to stop fighting this fight tonight."

twoleftfeet: " I forgive you for your ignorance. I'm outta here."

twoleftfeet: " I'm outta here. See you tomorrow."

twoleftfeet: " I am so outta here. This time I mean it."

What a shame MetaTalk doesn't come equipped with a door to slam for emphasis.

The complimentary drugs seem to be workin' mighty fine, tho.

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:34:37 -0800

if they were working fine, you'd all be asleep by now

By: Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish

Holy Zarquon's Singing Fish — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:37:22 -0800

"Complimentary" my ass. I've taken like eight hits of the stuff and nobody's said a thing about my new shirt.

By: Burhanistan

Burhanistan — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:41:49 -0800

Don't be silly. Your ass looks great on those drugs.

By: blue_beetle

blue_beetle — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:44:51 -0800

Today we are all Metafiltarians.

By: Karmakaze

Karmakaze — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:49:58 -0800

(-_-)...(_ _)...zzzz....

By: patheral

patheral — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 13:51:39 -0800

Your hair looks nice today. That might be the drugs talking though.

By: jamjam

jamjam — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 14:00:55 -0800

You know, I think US elections would be much happier and more positive experiences for everyone if they took place at the very beginning of Spring rather than in late Fall.

At the beginning of Spring new life is emerging, and a certain amount of optimistic good feeling is almost unavoidable (pace T. S.), but in Fall everything is dying, and people with SAD-- and the multitude near them on the continuum-- are past their peak and sliding down a slope littered with dashed hopes, conspiracy theories, and outright paranoid delusions into the paralyzed depression of the dark months, and those energies seem to dominate the entire landscape, especially in presidential years.

By: rtha

rtha — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 14:03:15 -0800

I am a weirdo because the fall always feels much more like the Beginning of New Things than it seems to for most people. Must be some holdover from my school days.

By: LionIndex

LionIndex — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 14:05:16 -0800

You know, I think US elections would be much happier and more positive experiences for everyone if they took place at the very beginning of Spring rather than in late Fall.

Moving elections to tax season will pretty much guarantee a Republican stranglehold on the US until the end of time.

By: Justinian

Justinian — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 14:19:07 -0800

This whole meta is ridiculous. Sometimes I just don't understand people. How about spending more time working on your freakin' post than you spend arguing about it.

By: jamjam

jamjam — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 14:27:50 -0800

Moving elections to tax season will pretty much guarantee a Republican stranglehold on the US until the end of time.

Taxes are indeed inevitable, yet like death, the time is not necessarily set in stone.

By: andrewesque

andrewesque — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 14:32:11 -0800

You know, I think US elections would be much happier and more positive experiences for everyone if they took place at the very beginning of Spring rather than in late Fall.

I'd honestly just be happy if voting was moved to a Saturday instead of a Tuesday.

By: newpotato

newpotato — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 15:26:47 -0800

obiwanwasabi:

taz is Australian.

Like pavlova. And Russell Crowe.

I don't understand how this thread could go 300+ comments with no one pointing out that both of these things originated in New Zealand.
Or was that the point?
That was probably the point.
Nevermind

By: gman

gman — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 15:48:26 -0800

I don't understand how this thread could go 300+ comments...

This only confirms my suspicion that the mods are blocking me from seeing numerous comments of people they don't want me responding to.

By: restless_nomad

restless_nomad — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 15:50:59 -0800

This only confirms my suspicion that the mods are blocking me from seeing numerous comments of people they don't want me responding to.

As much as this idea amuses me in a we-would-never-actually-implement-that sort of way, I'm only seeing around 260 comments myself.

By: cortex

cortex — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 15:56:59 -0800

I choose to believe newpotato was avoiding a terrible pointing-out-less future by pre-empting it with their act of outpointing. Timeline rectified, SkyNet averted.

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:28:54 -0800

This only confirms my suspicion that the mods are blocking me from seeing numerous comments of people they don't want me responding to.

The new mods aren't trained in that feature yet.

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 16:38:49 -0800

That would be awesome. Like the opening cinematic of the original Syndicate...

By: newpotato

newpotato — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 17:29:21 -0800

I choose to believe newpotato was avoiding a terrible pointing-out-less future by pre-empting it with their act of outpointing. Timeline rectified, SkyNet averted.

Yes. It was this.

By: newpotato

newpotato — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 17:29:40 -0800

....and bad eyesight.

By: palomar

palomar — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 17:40:22 -0800

I am a weirdo because the fall always feels much more like the Beginning of New Things than it seems to for most people. Must be some holdover from my school days.

It's not just you! Me too! I always chalked it up to a combo of three things: school starting, the new fall TV season starting, and my birthday approaching.

Also I'm really into wearing sweaters and eating stew. Mmmm, stew.

By: KokuRyu

KokuRyu — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 18:21:12 -0800

Bill Clinton ain't no Hubert Humphrey.

By: cjorgensen

cjorgensen — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 18:21:47 -0800

Who's Stew?

By: Mr. Yuck

Mr. Yuck — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 18:34:22 -0800

I'd honestly just be happy if voting was moved to a Saturday instead of a Tuesday.

Me too, but as you well know, someone would attach a poison pill/stealth clause to that amendment forever legitimizing mansplaining as protected speech.

By: adamdschneider

adamdschneider — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 19:20:12 -0800

USian mods or not

Man, didn't you just make a MetaTalk post where you decried the use of a term you found divisive by likening it to this very term, which you acknowledged was extremely divisive?

By: His thoughts were red thoughts

His thoughts were red thoughts — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 19:36:58 -0800

Today we are all Metafiltarians.

But aren't we all Metafilarians everyday? I know I am.

By: jacalata

jacalata — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 19:42:37 -0800

Man, didn't you just make a MetaTalk post where you decried the use of a term you found divisive by likening it to this very term, which you acknowledged was extremely divisive?

wasn't that MeTa a consensus that no, people will use whatever language they want, and so gman can too?

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 19:57:46 -0800

5 hours, 2 pantydropers, half a long island ice tea, a shot and half a bottle of merlot.

Listen up, I have words for each and everyone one of you and its time you're heard it.

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 19:58:41 -0800

Actually, on the basis of a quick search for uses of "USian" in that thread, it seems that relatively few people who expressed an opinion particularly minded "USian" as a shorthand for "a citizen of the United States of America".

(It always seemed a bit redundant to me, since "American" works according to the law of redundancy - it's almost always clear from context whether one means the continent of or the United States of, but YMMV. "Usonian" is also an option, of course...)

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 20:24:17 -0800

Wait wait wait. I'm not buying that any of these mods are American until I see some birth certificates.

By: Monsieur Caution

Monsieur Caution — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 20:38:57 -0800

HOW CAN TAZ NOT BE TASMANIAN ... (ﾉಥ益ಥ）ﾉ ┻━┻

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 20:42:02 -0800

until I see some birth certificates.

Does this count?

By: jacalata

jacalata — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 20:46:25 -0800

nope, not longform enough.

By: Lexica

Lexica — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 20:48:18 -0800

Actually, on the basis of a quick search for uses of "USian" in that thread, it seems that relatively few people who expressed an opinion particularly minded "USian" as a shorthand for "a citizen of the United States of America".

I think it may be that many of us who do dislike it have given up on arguing about it. It's been discussed, repeatedly. There doesn't seem to be much point in putting the effort into re-arguing it again.

By: arcticseal

arcticseal — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 20:52:44 -0800

Surely asking for evidence of m(od b)irth, makes you a mirther?

By: adamdschneider

adamdschneider — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 20:58:23 -0800

USian is terrible clusterfuck of a word and it should never be written (except to decry it, obviously), let alone spoken aloud (which I wonder if it ever has been).

On the other hand, due to my own personal belief that "English" as spoken in the United Kingdom is the uncanny valley of language, I have taken to calling that place "the Uk," its language "Ukish" and its people "Ukers" (some of whom of course are mothers).

Just kidding guys, I love you.

Mostly.

By: MartinWisse

MartinWisse — Thu, 06 Sep 2012 22:58:38 -0800

USian is terrible clusterfuck of a word and it should never be written

That's because the word is USAnian.

I don't understand the people who apparantly think that either is derogatory. If I want to disparage merkins, yank is perfectly cromulent. Insults everybody but people who eat pie for breakfast.

By: Dysk

Dysk — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 00:05:20 -0800

There's a country over here in UKland you might have heard of - it's called England. I think they have the best claim to 'english'.

(There actually isn't an equivalent term to UKer - British technically doesn't mean the same thing)

By: stoneandstar

stoneandstar — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 00:28:43 -0800

wasn't that MeTa a consensus that no, people will use whatever language they want, and so gman can too?

No. Not at all.

By: not that girl

not that girl — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 01:35:57 -0800

Your hair looks nice today. That might be the drugs talking though.

My just-turned-5 kid came into the room the other day through a door to my right. "Mom!" he said enthusiastically. "Your hair looks beautiful!" Then he came around to where he could see from the front, and said, "Oh...no. Never mind."

By: vacapinta

vacapinta — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 02:32:08 -0800

until I see some birth certificates.

I have a passport.

By: gman

gman — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 03:02:24 -0800

vacapinta: I have a passport.

No, what you have is a photo of an unopened passport surrounded by a bunch of foreign currency. Currency which includes Communist Lao Kip and Communist Vietnamese Dong. I too have a photo of my U.S. passport, but at least I'm actually holding it in the picture. And perhaps you shouldn't have chosen a name like vacapinta if you wanted us to believe you were from the United States. Really poor planning on your part.

And all your co-worker has shown us is a Raggedy Jessamann doll sitting in a chair. Who doesn't have a photo of themselves dressed up like that?

Basically what I'm saying is that we're going to need the longform birth certificates sent in to be tested for legitimacy and verified by Mr. Trump.

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 03:24:40 -0800

I'd stamp that.

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 04:37:23 -0800

I think it may be that many of us who do dislike it have given up on arguing about it. It's been discussed, repeatedly. There doesn't seem to be much point in putting the effort into re-arguing it again

That's a good point - and also, that thread wasn't overtly about the term, so people who do feel strongly about it wouldn't necessarily have been pulled into it, because the above-the-fold discussion (which we probably shouldn't get back into, since the thread was locked) didn't mention the term.

The "UKer" example does actually make me think that there is a kind of equivalence over the pond, where non-British people often use "England" and "Britain" basically interchangeably - and thus frequently apply a term that the subject would feel was neither accurate nor (in some cases) at all flattering, without really having a sense that they are doing anything wrong.

"When you call British people English it is annoying, because of the centuries of complex and often bloody history between the nations now making up the United Kingdom" seems, I think, to be a makeable statement - as a Texan might object to being called a "yankee", maybe, even if done in a friendly spirit?

So, "when you call me a USian, it is annoying because of..." would be the same formulation, and I'm not sure what the end would be. Because of a general usage as a pejorative by people within and without the US? Because of the unlovely aesthetics of the word (which I think is always dangerous as an argument, but is certainly an argument)? Because it has a history of pedants on UseNet (the Reddit of its age) using it to score points by claiming that "American" was an insufficiently accurate taxonomy?

By: Jehan

Jehan — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 05:21:11 -0800

The "UKer" example does actually make me think that there is a kind of equivalence over the pond, where non-British people often use "England" and "Britain" basically interchangeably - and thus frequently apply a term that the subject would feel was neither accurate nor (in some cases) at all flattering, without really having a sense that they are doing anything wrong.

"When you call British people English it is annoying, because of the centuries of complex and often bloody history between the nations now making up the United Kingdom" seems, I think, to be a makeable statement - as a Texan might object to being called a "yankee", maybe, even if done in a friendly spirit?

Yeah, this is a terrible practice. It makes me retch to be called "British", and I would much rather be called "English" or "Englander". Please, whenever you feel the need to type "British" or "Brit", stop and find out which country they're from or identify with. If you don't know, just say "a person from the UK". "British" is destructive of our national identities and needs to stop now.

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 05:48:37 -0800

It makes me retch to be called "British", and I would much rather be called "English" or "Englander".

Huh - that's an interesting angle I hadn't even considered. I was thinking more of the Mitt Romney, "England is a small island" way around...

By: fightorflight

fightorflight — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 06:02:06 -0800

I've never understood why anyone here gives a shit how many posts there are on any particular topic.

Posts define what the site is and what sort of commenters are attracted to it. If we had hundreds of NFL posts every day, most non-sports fans would leave or be drowned out, no matter how hard they tried to "ignore the ones they weren't interested in".

"It's grammatically correct. It's not a double. It doesn't insult anybody"

This is the bar now? Magic.

"British" is destructive of our national identities and needs to stop now.
Just for the benefit of Americans, this view is by no means common or the only one. If in doubt, prefer "British" over "English". Scots and Welsh will be massively less insulted (if insulted at all!) by the former.

By: charred husk

charred husk — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 06:08:23 -0800

running order squabble fest:
"So, "when you call me a USian, it is annoying because of..." would be the same formulation, and I'm not sure what the end would be."

The only one with any weight would be its use as a pejorative. It is generally why I'm not fond of the word, but as long as it's not being used that way I don't let it ruffle my feathers. Especially since the last go around I took part in about USian. I had begun as more strongly against the word until I did a search for its usage and found it was 95% benign.

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 06:11:15 -0800

If in doubt, prefer "British" over "English". Scots and Welsh will be massively less insulted (if insulted at all!) by the former.

Certainly, "British" is my safety shot when someone seems to have an accent from England, Scotland or Wales. Although Northern Ireland can get a bit tickly...

(A few weeks ago I met a guy who had an unplaceable mid-Atlantic accent but said he was born in Lisburn. Having decided he probably wasn't Portuguese, I started with "So you're Br-" and then froze up. This guy was _huge_ - about 6'8 - and clearly looked after himself. He very kindly finished the word for me.

"But you have such nice teeth" was probably not the best way to recover the situation, admittedly.)

I kid!

By: Jehan

Jehan — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 06:24:13 -0800

Just for the benefit of Americans, this view is by no means common or the only one. If in doubt, prefer "British" over "English". Scots and Welsh will be massively less insulted (if insulted at all!) by the former.

No, if you are in doubt, say "from the UK" for at least it is legally correct. British can be insulting to Scottish people. There was a time when the elites tried to wipe Scotland from the map by calling it "North Britain". Why support such an oppression? But even then, if you are in doubt, stop and think. You shouldn't confuse Wales, England and Scotland any more than you would confuse Canada, the US, and Mexico. They are distinct places, and always have been despite the efforts of some. Look, even Ireland was once considered "British", yet nobody would call them that now.

By: adamdschneider

adamdschneider — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 06:28:00 -0800

"From the UK" isn't even a demonym. Ukers for all! I object to USian because it exists entirely on the internet and is an attempt to be too clever by half.

By: EmpressCallipygos

EmpressCallipygos — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 06:57:12 -0800

USian doesn't bother me in the slightest, for the record.

By: arcticseal

arcticseal — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 07:13:12 -0800

"From the UK" is preferable to "UKian"; will answer to British/English/Scottish since my family makeup is mixed up like that. Everyone's sensitivities vary, so I try and err on the side of tact unless I deliberately want to wind someone up.

By: Busy Old Fool

Busy Old Fool — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 07:19:02 -0800

I prefer to be called 'British', although I'm fine with pretty much any reasonably accurate adjective. The only description I find (very mildly) irritating is 'European' when used to suggest a social, political or cultural commonality that simply doesn't exist. e.g. 'Europeans tend to...'

By: nooneyouknow

nooneyouknow — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 07:23:11 -0800

"when you call me a USian, it is annoying because of..." I'm American. That's what we call each. That's the term for a citizen of American in the the Anglophone world. Assuming that one wasn't hatched yesterday, one knows that if the citizens of the US took a vote on it it would be 99% for American. Refusing to call people what that they want to be called is a (small) dick move. It's like calling Elizabeth Beth after she has told she doesn't like that nickname and prefers Liz.

My dislike of it comes from the fact that aesthetically it sucks. Seriously, it's just bad.

You shouldn't confuse Wales, England and Scotland any more than you would confuse Canada, the US, and Mexico. They are distinct places, and always have been despite the efforts of some. Look, even Ireland was once considered "British", yet nobody would call them that now

Not a fair comparison. Wikipedia tells me that "Politically, Great Britain refers to England, Scotland and Wales in combination." and it's the name of the island (most) British people live on. Canada, US and Mexico are not in any kind of political union together. And Canada's and Mexico's country names are not the same as their continents names. I think expecting people who are not up on UK politics to know that (some) people of Great Britain apparently hate the demonym of their political union and their island is a bit much.

By: fightorflight

fightorflight — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 07:34:44 -0800

But even then, if you are in doubt, stop and think. You shouldn't confuse Wales, England and Scotland any more than you would confuse Canada, the US, and Mexico.

You speak like you're telling a universal truth here, but this is a deeply minority view. Insisting that there are four separate "identities" goes against most of the studies that have been here, which say that a majority of people identify themselves as both, not one to the exclusion of the other. You are doing the equivalent of saying "Don't dare call them English, they are Mancunians and you're destroying their identity".

As for insults, I'm Scottish, and nobody I know would be insulted by being called "British", and I include people on the Yes campaign in that. Most would be relieved they weren't called "English".

As for confusing Canada and the US, there are plenty of Canadian accents I can't distinguish from American and vice versa. (That's how American tourists are able to pass themselves off as a Canadians when the US is going through one of its unpopular phases.)

Look, even Ireland was once considered "British", yet nobody would call them that now.
Except the poster immediately above you.

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 07:45:32 -0800

Canada, US and Mexico are not in any kind of political union together

WAKE UP, SHEEPLE!

(Sheeperson? Is there a singular?)

Possibly a better comparison than the US and Canada would be Spain and Catalonia: a Catalan Basque can be described as Spanish in the sense that they are from within the boundaries of the country "Spain", but they might not like being called "Spanish" in conversation if they were talking to someone who knew them to be Catalan, and doing it repeatedly in conversation might lead things to get a bit chilly... and certainly not "Castillian" (which would be the equivalent of calling a Scotsman English).

Except the poster immediately above you.

To be correct, I specifically didn't call the huge dude "British". I waited for him to self-identify as British. As a native of Northern Ireland he was a UK citizen, but see above re: Catalonia... some people in Northern Ireland consider themselves primarily or exclusively British, others primarily or exclusively Irish.

By: BibiRose

BibiRose — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 07:49:29 -0800

No, if you are in doubt, say "from the UK" for at least it is legally correct

UKers I know all seem to say "from UK." I get the impression that's by analogy to things like "from Ukraine" where "the" is avoided because it sounds imperialistic.

By: nooneyouknow

nooneyouknow — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 07:52:50 -0800

WAKE UP, SHEEPLE!

(Sheeperson? Is there a singular?)

Like sheep, sheeple is the singular and plural.

By: MartinWisse

MartinWisse — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 07:55:13 -0800

Since you're going to offend them anyway, just call em limeys.

By: jacalata

jacalata — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 07:55:33 -0800

Wow, I'm pretty sure I've literally never heard 'from UK', and I've known a few. I think I'd do a double take if I heard that.

By: arcticseal

arcticseal — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 07:56:33 -0800

"from UK"? I have never heard that usage. I'm from the UK, and always use "the". Standards have to be maintained /lawn

By: Burhanistan

Burhanistan — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 08:17:35 -0800

It's also just "I flew Concord", not "I flew on the Concord". The latter just betrays your lower class.

By: adamdschneider

adamdschneider — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 08:19:10 -0800

And soon the former will just betray your age.

By: BibiRose

BibiRose — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 08:21:58 -0800

"from UK"? I have never heard that usage. I'm from the UK, and always use "the". Standards have to be maintained /lawn

I'm interested to hear that. I've spent very little time in (the) UK; this is based on a guy I dated who is from there but now lives in Canada. He seems to be very pointed about leaving out the "the." He's from a funny demographic I think, an older guy with a public school education but a really varied background in other ways. I might think he's bending over backwards to sound PC, but I feel like all his friends say "from UK" too.

By: cortex

cortex — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 08:28:04 -0800

I have a passport.

I have a sophomore year high school student id. My guidance counselor can totally vouch for me.

By: BibiRose

BibiRose — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 08:28:08 -0800

Oh great, so it's a snobby thing. He says "I flew Concord" too.

By: arcticseal

arcticseal — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 08:31:30 -0800

No, "flew Concord" is acceptable (to my ears anyway). English is fun!

By: psoas

psoas — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 08:47:48 -0800

It's also just "I flew Concord", not "I flew on the Concord". The latter just betrays your lower class.

Well, it depends. Were you wearing an undershirt?

By: Jehan

Jehan — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 09:03:31 -0800

You speak like you're telling a universal truth here, but this is a deeply minority view. Insisting that there are four separate "identities" goes against most of the studies that have been here, which say that a majority of people identify themselves as both, not one to the exclusion of the other. You are doing the equivalent of saying "Don't dare call them English, they are Mancunians and you're destroying their identity".

We'll see. I don't doubt for a moment that I'll live to witness a shift in attitudes and the breakup of the UK. And what a wonderful moment that will be, when we can resign those colonialists to the dustbin where they belong. When we can begin to look back at the history of the UK without the senseless jingoism of empire and assess all the crimes they have committed.

Call yourself "British" if you want, but as you're from Scotland, I suggest that you've internalized the identity of your oppressors. You've sold your sovereignty to Westminster and seem happy to let them keep it. I suppose you don't mind that they've stolen your land and your oil either? Are you not outraged that the biggest party in the UK government has only one MP in Scotland? The UK does not even pretend to represent you or your interests. Their anthem actually talks about killing Scottish people!

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 09:09:30 -0800

"Flew Concord" surely suggests that one was the _pilot_?

By: jacquilynne

jacquilynne — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 09:13:29 -0800

Only if "flew United" or "flew Delta" also does. I'd say "flew the Concord" more strongly suggests that one is the pilot than does "flew Concord".

By: restless_nomad

restless_nomad — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 09:16:27 -0800

This seems like a fight that doesn't really need to go here - please don't start one.

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 09:22:26 -0800

(I'm assuming R_N means the senseless jingoism of empire, not the Concorde?)

Only if "flew United" or "flew Delta" also does.

I was joking, but that's based on a misunderstanding, I think. Concorde is not an airline - it's a denotator for a number of decommissioned ogee supersonic passenger planes. The equivalent would be "flew British Airways" or "flew Air France". So, really, one would take Concorde, fly British Airways and land in the UK, the US, or la belle France...

By: jacquilynne

jacquilynne — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 09:27:44 -0800

No, I understand that Concorde is not an airline. I just think the construction is similar.

By: restless_nomad

restless_nomad — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 09:27:55 -0800

Yes, the grammar of air travel is not the fight I was referring to. Carry on.

By: rtha

rtha — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 09:29:32 -0800

Call yourself "British" if you want, but as you're from Scotland, I suggest that you've internalized the identity of your oppressors.

I can't even tell anymore when someone is using their Onion voice.

By: Sidhedevil

Sidhedevil — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 10:24:03 -0800

This is why "USian"/"USAnian" and "UKoGBaNIan" were popular on Usenet, y'all.

I myself am a jelly donut.

By: Sidhedevil

Sidhedevil — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 10:26:01 -0800

Also, Concorde stopped flying years ago, so we are arguing about U and non-U usage from the past. What next? "Writing paper" vs. "stationery"?

By: cortex

cortex — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 10:27:42 -0800

As I understand it folks from United Britain call e-mail "electronic post".

By: Burhanistan

Burhanistan — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 10:30:36 -0800

They still have unlisted Concord flights for well connected people. You just don't know about them because they break the sound barrier.

By: griphus

griphus — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 10:32:22 -0800

UKoGBaNIan

I'm pretty sure I had relatives sent to the Gulags by this organization.

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 10:51:41 -0800

Thanks, I appreciate the quick response to the birth certificate request. I am satisfied that Team Mod can legally run this site now.

On the UK/Britain front, if I hear an accent that sounds like it's from that area, unless I hear an accent which sounds overwhelmingly Irish or Scottish, I will ask "Are you from the UK?", followed by "Where in?" if the answer is yes. This seems a far safer bet than "Are you British/English?", maybe because the semantic difference, as slight as it is, is on the geographical origin rather than cultural heritage of the other person. At least it's worked out well for me thus far.

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 11:06:31 -0800

I just

By: y2karl

y2karl — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 12:32:24 -0800

By: running order squabble fest

running order squabble fest — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 12:35:06 -0800

Ahem. Sorry - premature MeTaculation.

I just ask them if they speak English, and when they say yes, respond "You're welcome".

By: Grither

Grither — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 13:00:04 -0800

MartinWisse: "If I want to disparage merkins"

Why would you want to disparage a pubic wig?

I actually worked with a guy name Merkin. Poor guy.

By: sgt.serenity

sgt.serenity — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 13:27:19 -0800

This is like a stunt post i would have made except it was by an American - which of course robs it of its potential epic multi levelled resonance. We could delete it and i'll repost ?

Anyway, listen man, leave the mods alone - the war is over and the jibes have been decommisioned.

Political posts on mefi are the brother in law you have to bring over for christmas.

By: nooneyouknow

nooneyouknow — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 14:04:15 -0800

"Writing paper" vs. "stationery"?

That's an actual thing that people have/did fight about? Man, people are weird. But then, again I once got into a flame war about how lame it is to call all carbonated soft drinks "coke". I am a "pop" person. I have no particular feeling for or against "soda", but my limbic system insists that using the word "coke" to refer to anything but Coca-Cola is almost akin to putting a kitten in a blender. My visceral reaction about that is completely ridiculous.

By: patheral

patheral — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 14:28:57 -0800

"Writing paper" vs. "stationery"?

That's an actual thing that people have/did fight about? Man, people are weird.
posted by nooneyouknow at 4:04 PM on September 7 [+] [!]

You've obviously not seen the flame wars I have where blood has been drawn over the silliest things. Because the world's gonna end if someone says "I could care less" instead of "I couldn't care less." And heaven help us if someone mistypes your instead of you're in a post. They're just setting themselves up for ridicule.

By: davejay

davejay — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 15:38:48 -0800

I love posts like this, because they start off all fighty, then they get defensive, then they get into the nitty-gritty of he-said-she-said, and then I get bored and scroll to the end to find that the thread has evolved into multiple discussions about specific little things that seemingly have no relation to anything in the start of the thread.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 17:29:45 -0800

Wow. The first 1/3rd of this thread was damn fine performance art. Spectacular. Surreal. Shocking and astounding. The second act was also delightful, incorporating the audience response into the work and then seamlessly transitioning to pure audience participation in an analysis of the piece and its meaning to the community. The third act I found less enjoyable, but as a dada-ist meta-analysis of both previous acts, it is indeed a work of art that will surely please those to whom such tastes appeal.

Also, OP was surely high as a kite. Way too high. Easy there, buddy. Pass it by a bit more often.

By: GenjiandProust

GenjiandProust — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 17:37:05 -0800

I myself am a jelly donut.

Well, we are generally pleased to see you, and your departure only leaves us hungry for more.

To paraphrase.

By: batgrlHG

batgrlHG — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 18:40:39 -0800

This was Clinton's best speech of his life. Really.

My only thought when I see this sort of sentence? Sounds like an obit. You call out the best X of anyone's career - well, it sorta means that's it for them, no need to buy the next book or album, or bother with any future speeches - everything from now on will be downhill. Just saying - if you like the speaker you're praising, don't make such sweeping statements. Or if so give us some context of the top 10 so you have something to back it up with.

I myself am a jelly donut.

Wow, I am a serious fan of that. I consider you one of the best of all baked goods. (Or fried goods, I am non discriminatory towards all pastry-dessert-like beings.)

By: facetious

facetious — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 19:28:43 -0800

I'm going to ask the moderators from other countries not to interfere with our discussion of American politics.

why do i love this statement so much? thank you, original poster.

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 20:15:50 -0800

If you will allow me, I will try to cap the end of this with a few reflections on the successes and failures of this thread.

First of all, first and foremost I blame Bill Clinton for any failures in this thread. His speech ran long, into the timezone where Metafilter moderators no longer live in the U.S., prompting a snarky MetaTalk post on my part. Damn you, Bill Clinton!

Second, I blame the Republicans, without whose dangerous, greedy, short-sighted, brown-nosing, idiotic policies my post wouldn't have been necessary.

And third, I am happy that the post forked a thread that now has 880 comments. It's a better thread, if for no other reason that it lived on.

The last few months of any election are crazy times. There are zillions of outlets where the the issues can be discussed. I'm glad Metafilter is one of them.

By: cnelson

cnelson — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 22:13:42 -0800

I'm going to ask twoleftfeet not to interfere with our discussion of stationery, (the) Concorde, and Ukers. It's more difficult for him to deal with this, because we can all get crazy every day about this and we need to do that, and he needs to let us get crazy about this. I'm not going to mention specific instances, but they exist. Please chill out about this. Things will get back to normal afterwards.

By: Packed Lunch

Packed Lunch — Fri, 07 Sep 2012 23:42:25 -0800

And third, I am happy that the post forked a thread that now has 880 comments. It's a better thread, if for no other reason that it lived on.

Interesting. No wait, the other thing: tedious.

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Sat, 08 Sep 2012 02:50:15 -0800

There was a trick here, I'll admit it.

Never mind the post, the title was "Slicker Willie"

Now, if you're one of them USians, you'll remember that "Slick Williy" was a nickname for Bill Clinton. But if your language environment is British, you'll hear that same phrase as a penis reference. Really, there are two different meanings of 'Slick Willy'.

The trick was unintentional.

By: loquacious

loquacious — Sat, 08 Sep 2012 03:38:02 -0800

Complimentary drugs!? Damnit, I'm late again.

No, seriously, I would rather be asleep.

By: Marisa Stole the Precious Thing

Marisa Stole the Precious Thing — Sat, 08 Sep 2012 03:54:14 -0800

And third, I am happy that the post forked a thread that now has 880 comments. It's a better thread, if for no other reason that it lived on.

Oh yeah, nothing quite like the joy and magic of re-living the "USian v. American" debate all over again.

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Sat, 08 Sep 2012 03:59:46 -0800

All of you people who disagree with me should just vote Republican and be done with it. Be done with everything then.

By: Packed Lunch

Packed Lunch — Sat, 08 Sep 2012 04:11:15 -0800

Problem is I don't know if I disagree with you...

By: twoleftfeet

twoleftfeet — Sat, 08 Sep 2012 04:15:50 -0800

Complimentary drugs!? Damnit, I'm late again.

I'll have you know that I was one of the first people to synthesize sentences will drug-like effects.

For example, the following sentence will induce an opiate or heroin quality in the mind of the reader:
AAAAW, wagga jum nabbi do wasabi bowa kawa kawa.

The next sentence will induce an intense hallucinogenic experience. Avert your gaze if you're not ready for that:
Bzzzzt, not or not, gununka terwilleger ^gumption antifreeze.

Another sentence I have invented reproduces the effect of cheap beer:
Who put the bop in the bang she lang she bop, who put the ding in the _{damn, _{I'm _{going to _puke.}}}

I choose my words carefully, mindful of their intoxicating side effects.

By: taz

taz — Sat, 08 Sep 2012 04:25:57 -0800

I think we've pretty much wrapped up useful discussion on this. Closing.