Comments on: Long thread is long

Long thread is long

klangklangston — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 09:21:19 -0800

With the political season upon us like a vicious ape clinging to our backs, our long, long coupla thousand comment threads are a beast to load, especially on mobile devices. Is there a way to have a user-set preference to fold all but the last, say, 100 comments so that they don't have to load up each time?

In conclusion, Ginuwine makes an excellent case for ponies.

By: cortex

cortex — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 09:24:40 -0800

I consider very long threads like the current Romneyan epic being creaky bears that are hard to use as a sort of natural containment feature for ridiculously long threads. Folding out context is more of an incentive for very long threads (something we don't really want to create) than it is a solution to a serious problem (since these very long threads are rare, mythworthy beasts).

By: octobersurprise

octobersurprise — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 09:30:24 -0800

very long threads like the current Romneyan epic

Or as I like to think of it, the Romneyana.

By: bilabial

bilabial — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 09:33:39 -0800

I would feed this pony an apple. But that's because my internet access may be partially limited to phone in the near future.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 09:34:05 -0800

"being creaky bears that are hard to use as a sort of natural containment feature for ridiculously long threads. Folding out context is more of an incentive for very long threads (something we don't really want to create) than it is a solution to a serious problem (since these very long threads are rare, mythworthy beasts)."

I can understand that, but I remember the tsunami thread crashing my phone browser, and I'm sure that the upcoming debates will also spawn a megathread. I think that MeFi has grown to the extent where we can predict a couple of these per year, and deprecating all of them because some of them turn into political grudgematches seems unfortunate.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 09:34:41 -0800

Perhaps you need my argument again, only slower.

By: koeselitz

koeselitz — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 09:35:25 -0800

As much as I love a birthday pony, we're kind of discussing this in the thread below this one already, and it looks like there are already outlet valves popping up all over. Heck, there's a brand-new debate thread at the top of the front page. I think we'll be okay.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 09:35:40 -0800

I also tend to think it'd help on any thread over a couple hundred comments, which happens all the time now, but that may be because my phone's browser is butt or something.

By: pb

pb — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 09:37:22 -0800

One thing you might do on your phone is turn off the inline YouTube links preference. Those take some time to process when the page first loads, and if you don't need them it can speed things up.

By: cortex

cortex — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 09:38:40 -0800

I also tend to think it'd help on any thread over a couple hundred comments, which happens all the time now, but that may be because my phone's browser is butt or something.

I have a great deal of sympathy about buttphones, but we don't really want to reverse course on major long-standing site design decisions to accommodate the crappy mobile browser stuff of the moment. It's okay in a big-picture sense if some folks spend less time with the odd very long thread than they'd like because their current device setup is suboptimal, much as I sympathize at a personal level with the annoyance.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 09:38:53 -0800

Those are already off on both my computer and phone; I don't like 'em visually. But maybe that'll help some other folks who still have them on.

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 09:44:29 -0800

I have a great deal of sympathy about buttphones, but we don't really want to reverse course on major long-standing site design decisions to accommodate the crappy mobile browser stuff of the moment.

Yeah this is one of those things where we appreciate the technological reasons people want this (and moderating those threads is a pain too) but they come up a few times a year, if less and we'd rather work on developing a general "Hey make a new post about the topic if people are still interested in talking about it but the thread is boggy" approach than building some new thing that will have a lot of other side effects.

By: LogicalDash

LogicalDash — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 09:58:44 -0800

I note that every comment thread has an associated RSS feed. RSS readers normally have some way to cope with very long feeds, so you might have better luck reading along that way.

By: the man of twists and turns

the man of twists and turns — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 10:27:08 -0800

Infodumpster! What are the threads with at least 1000 comments?

Looks like they are becoming more prevalent.

By: the man of twists and turns

the man of twists and turns — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 10:29:10 -0800

What's really surprising, the week of the Japanese Tsunami, there were 2 3,000+ and a 1,700+ thread.

By: atrazine

atrazine — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 10:40:15 -0800

Or as I like to think of it, the Romneyana.

The Romneyiad?

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 10:53:47 -0800

With the political season upon us like a vicious ape clinging to our backs...

Yoda is not an ape.

By: Bookhouse

Bookhouse — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 11:04:31 -0800

I'm just here for the Golden Age of Timbaland derail.

By: aspo

aspo — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 11:06:58 -0800

That thread is over 3.5 megs! I'll be generous and assume that, say 1 meg of that is cruft like bylines and html. That's still something like 2 books worth of content.

(And yes, I finally gave up trying to read it on my phone a few days ago. Even my desktop gets a bit cranky when I load it up.)

By: Blasdelb

Blasdelb — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 11:16:05 -0800

"I consider very long threads like the current Romneyan epic being creaky bears that are hard to use as a sort of natural containment feature for ridiculously long threads. Folding out context is more of an incentive for very long threads (something we don't really want to create) than it is a solution to a serious problem (since these very long threads are rare, mythworthy beasts)."

If you guys really want fewer longboat threads, I think there might be better solutions (like a relaxing the prohibition on related topics once a big thread gets unmanageable), then keeping the site broken to inconvenience users with slow connections. For starters, Mefites are stubborn folk and I'm not sure it actually serves as a particularly effective deterrent.

By: cashman

cashman — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 11:16:51 -0800

Even my desktop gets a bit cranky when I load it up.

It ate my system alive and so I bought a new computer the other day. I'd be looking at the Romneyan in recent comments, then click through and everything would just lock up. And then typing in it - the letters would come out one by one and when I was trying to get links from other tabs it was just a nightmare.

By: Tell Me No Lies

Tell Me No Lies — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 11:23:40 -0800

I've noticed that these types of threads are almost always about breaking news. MetaFilter should emphatically not be altered to make current events threads easier.

By: cortex

cortex — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 11:40:45 -0800

(like a relaxing the prohibition on related topics once a big thread gets unmanageable)

To be clear, we're generally pretty relaxed on that front. There have been other election-related posts since that one. But when people really find a coffee shop they like, well, that's where they keep going for their daily cup I guess.

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 12:03:43 -0800

If you guys really want fewer longboat threads, I think there might be better solutions (like a relaxing the prohibition on related topics once a big thread gets unmanageable), then keeping the site broken to inconvenience users with slow connections.

Yes. Everyone has a lot of suggested solutions. This is the one we're going with for now. There is a side effect of these longboat threads that they are harder on people with slow connections. We understand that and at the same time are not at all interested in getting even more relaxed about the "MetaFilter is not primarily a current events/news/politics site" edict than we already are. People who find this intolerable are welcome to get their news and politics fix elsewhere and we hope they will come back after the election season.

By: Justinian

Justinian — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 12:47:47 -0800

I dunno, this election season has seemed less election seasony than previous ones. But it's still early.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 12:50:33 -0800

"I've noticed that these types of threads are almost always about breaking news. MetaFilter should emphatically not be altered to make current events threads easier."

That's more true about the exceptionally long ones, but comments still move pretty quickly in discussions of, say, fedoras big pimpin'.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 12:55:15 -0800

People who find this intolerable are welcome to get their news and politics fix elsewhere and we hope they will come back after the election season.

I understand that you have a general antipathy toward politics threads, but I think the issue is broader than that and while I used it as an example, I think reducing it to that — especially with kind of a blunt misrepresentation is unfair. I noted a problem, and just asked for a resolution.

By: Bookhouse

Bookhouse — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 12:58:31 -0800

It's good that we're having a new thread for the debate. America wants somebody to lead this nation with intelligence and honor, and hopes in the debate the two candidates will have an answer to the question: Are you that somebody?

By: Chrysostom

Chrysostom — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 13:01:30 -0800

The fixes for long threads pony comes up a couple of times a year, I think, and is always shot down. Site policy changing on this seems pretty unlikely.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 13:33:26 -0800

Yeah, but when you post a pony thread you know your odds are one in a million.

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 13:42:55 -0800

Listen, we're not going to change everything because of a few screwy election threads, so don't rock the boat.

By: clavdivs

clavdivs — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 13:56:15 -0800

Klang, have a bun.

By: Bookhouse

Bookhouse — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 14:01:48 -0800

Sorry, klang, looks like everyone wants to rain on your parade.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 14:26:35 -0800

That's OK, I can always try again.

By: maudlin

maudlin — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:23:37 -0800

Thanks for the earworm, guys.

By: Tell Me No Lies

Tell Me No Lies — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:32:00 -0800

That's more true about the exceptionally long ones, but comments still move pretty quickly in discussions of, say, fedoras big pimpin'.

True, it is hard to argue with fedoras.

By: TedW

TedW — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:35:26 -0800

The fixes for long threads pony comes up a couple of times a year, I think, and is always shot down. Site policy changing on this seems pretty unlikely

On the other hand, persistent whining finally paid off with the edit window.

By: arcticseal

arcticseal — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 15:47:05 -0800

In the case of ponies, surely you mean persistent whinnying?

By: TedW

TedW — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:19:24 -0800

I actually typed whinning instead of whining, so subconsciously I must have wanted to say whinnying. I even thought about leaving it just so I could use the edit window to go back and change it but chickened out. New features make me nervous.

By: jessamyn

jessamyn — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:47:18 -0800

persistent whining finally paid off with the edit window.

We specifically rolled it out nowhere near a MeTa thread requesting it so that people would not say this.

By: klangklangston

klangklangston — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 16:59:23 -0800

Oops, they say it anyway.

By: Brandon Blatcher

Brandon Blatcher — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 17:13:56 -0800

We specifically rolled it out nowhere near a MeTa thread requesting it so that people would not say this.

C'mon, you know we're crazy.

By: pyramid termite

pyramid termite — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 17:20:36 -0800

metafilter - a vicious ape clinging to our backs

By: Forktine

Forktine — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 19:06:05 -0800

More like a viscous ape, amirite?

By: xbonesgt

xbonesgt — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 19:37:51 -0800

I'd just like to mention how much I love the word "buttphones".

By: Bookhouse

Bookhouse — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 21:59:03 -0800

This just isn't the type of pony people are going to raise up over.

By: justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow

justsomebodythatyouusedtoknow — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 23:49:59 -0800

"persistent whining finally paid off"...We specifically rolled it out nowhere near a MeTa thread requesting it so that people would not say this.

You prefer intermittent whining?

By: Tell Me No Lies

Tell Me No Lies — Wed, 03 Oct 2012 23:53:23 -0800

persistent whining finally paid off with the edit window.

I've got a sneaking suspicion that the preponderance of devices doing auto-correct indirectly influenced this decision. Never have so many suffered typos for so little reason.

It would be interesting to take a look at people attempting to write proper English sentences on the web pre and post auto-correct explosion. I'm guessing misspellings went way down but nonsense sentences went way up.

By: fireoyster

fireoyster — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 02:37:33 -0800

Chrysostom: "The fixes for long threads pony comes up a couple of times a year, I think, and is always shot down. Site policy changing on this seems pretty unlikely."

Yup. Proposals (and rejections) like this make me wonder why the page is titled Customize Metafilter. Why not add more preference check boxes?

/whine

By: ardgedee

ardgedee — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 03:04:32 -0800

Smartphones are going to represent an increasing percentage of the site's traffic (I'd guess that I do about 30%-50% of my MeFi browsing by phone and tablet already, and it's 100% some weeks), and at the same time the site continues to grow, meaning not just more threads but more people participating in threads.

Folding long threads is going to be an inevitability, I think, because on touchscreen interfaces it's going to be a convenience for any thread over a few hundred lines. There might be more clever ways to handle it but I'm not clever enough to think of them. Outright pagination doesn't strike me as clever, although it does solve a subsequent problem (returning to a thread you've read the first n hundred comments of).

By: Burhanistan

Burhanistan — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 06:15:42 -0800

What about super ape?

By: Mister_A

Mister_A — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 08:35:22 -0800

Intermittent reinforcement is usually more effective in the long run, compared with no reinforcement or continuous reinforcement. Intermittent whinnying FTW! Just Say Neeeeeigh!

By: corb

corb — Thu, 04 Oct 2012 16:02:42 -0800

We just got a pony the other day! I agree that it'd be nice, but I am sated with my ability to edit for now.

By: subbes

subbes — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 06:33:28 -0800

I'd love a "250 comments per page" or "500 comments per page" version of the mobile theme for my buttphone.

As this is not going to happen I will investigate the RSS feed thing. Not sure if the GReader mobile interface supports adding feeds though, so I may be SOL if tethered to a phone for long periods.

By: threeants

threeants — Sat, 06 Oct 2012 14:30:49 -0800

Maybe instead of surfing the internet on bitty little phones people should try out experiencing their fucking surroundings. HEYO

By: subbes

subbes — Sun, 07 Oct 2012 09:41:27 -0800

Oh, pfthrrbfffff.

By: Burhanistan

Burhanistan — Sun, 07 Oct 2012 11:20:51 -0800

But, I was in a conference room.