OCD is, like, a real thing. October 8, 2012 1:11 PM Subscribe
October 8-12 is OCD Awareness Week. I think this is as good a time as any to talk about an issue that MetaFilter doesn't handle very well.
This post is just the latest example of a thread filled with cheap jokes at the expense of people suffering from Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. I feel like this community tends to frown on shitty comments about depression, eating disorders, and a lot of other mental health issues, so I don't see why OCD should be treated any differently. I see the excuse/non-apology of "well it's not really making fun of OCD, it's just convenient shorthand" almost every time this subject comes up, and I think that we can do better than that.
It would be wonderful if we could work on not using OCD as a jokey term, just like we no longer use "retarded" casually.
This post is just the latest example of a thread filled with cheap jokes at the expense of people suffering from Obsessive-Compulsive Disorder. I feel like this community tends to frown on shitty comments about depression, eating disorders, and a lot of other mental health issues, so I don't see why OCD should be treated any differently. I see the excuse/non-apology of "well it's not really making fun of OCD, it's just convenient shorthand" almost every time this subject comes up, and I think that we can do better than that.
It would be wonderful if we could work on not using OCD as a jokey term, just like we no longer use "retarded" casually.
Yeah I can never tell with this crowd if some of those folks are poking fun at themselves and a possibly actually-diagnosed malady that they have or not (I know a few here that do), but it is worth letting people know that for the people who have it, it's a real thing and a real problem and one that can be plaguing and/or not respond that well to treatment sometimes. Like, I count stairs and mind when words aren't kerned right, but I can get past it most of the time.
I'm the same way about people who toss the term schizophrenic around just because I have a desperately unhappy cousin who has had his life ruined by it and so it's harder for me to find humor in people who make "the voices in my head tell me to do things" sorts of jokes.
Not everyone responds well to consciousness-raising sorts of posts and I don't think we'll ever all be on board with responding to certain topics in certain ways, but for people who care about this sort of thing, skipping the lazy and/or obvious jokes that make light of things that we know affect some number of the people in our community would be a good place to start. As with many health and wellness issues, folks in the UK/Ireland/Canada have put together a good one stop website about OCD Awareness Week.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:27 PM on October 8, 2012 [8 favorites]
I'm the same way about people who toss the term schizophrenic around just because I have a desperately unhappy cousin who has had his life ruined by it and so it's harder for me to find humor in people who make "the voices in my head tell me to do things" sorts of jokes.
Not everyone responds well to consciousness-raising sorts of posts and I don't think we'll ever all be on board with responding to certain topics in certain ways, but for people who care about this sort of thing, skipping the lazy and/or obvious jokes that make light of things that we know affect some number of the people in our community would be a good place to start. As with many health and wellness issues, folks in the UK/Ireland/Canada have put together a good one stop website about OCD Awareness Week.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 1:27 PM on October 8, 2012 [8 favorites]
It's tricky, and I appreciate your frustration. I stopped using OCD as a jokey phrase for this stuff a long time ago because I'd taken an explicit interest in the subject at one point, but for a lot of folks it's just a pop culture reference more than anything and seems mostly to get used more as a neutrally-descriptive self-deprecating thing ("I get twitchy about order/disorder!") rather than an attempt to use the term to deride others.
Gently encouraging folks to become more aware of the actual meaning of and burdens that come with an OCD diagnosis seems like a positive approach to that pop culture vs. medical terminology disconnect, but like Jess says it can be a touch delicate to find the right approach there when a lot of folks are coming at it with no ill intent or notion that they're causing anyone distress.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:33 PM on October 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
Gently encouraging folks to become more aware of the actual meaning of and burdens that come with an OCD diagnosis seems like a positive approach to that pop culture vs. medical terminology disconnect, but like Jess says it can be a touch delicate to find the right approach there when a lot of folks are coming at it with no ill intent or notion that they're causing anyone distress.
posted by cortex (staff) at 1:33 PM on October 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
Thanks cortex and jessamyn — and to anybody reading this post, please know that this is not an attack on anyone, or an assumption of bad faith. I'm not trying to impose anything on anyone — I just hope that people might stop to consider how medical terms used in a non-medical sense can be perceived as inaccurate or even hurtful.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:38 PM on October 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:38 PM on October 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
I just read a pair of interesting posts by author Seanan McGuire about living with OCD, if people are interested. I was fascinated to see the way the stuff she talks about as being explicitly OCD-related was stuff I had originally parsed as either just "quirky" or "played up for comic effect."
(They also reminded me of this reaction to her writing, and wondered if that was related.)
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 1:41 PM on October 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
(They also reminded me of this reaction to her writing, and wondered if that was related.)
posted by restless_nomad (staff) at 1:41 PM on October 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
People on metafilter tend to be very open about their various issues, presumably to foster a sense of community about these things, or maybe just because they feel like it's a safe space for them to casually complain about personal issues that family members/coworkers/friends might judge them for. So I'm not entirely sure why your first assumption regarding the comments in that thread would be that the various commenters mentioning OCD would be mocking it or have no understanding of it, rather than assuming that they are themselves sufferers.
posted by elizardbits at 1:41 PM on October 8, 2012 [6 favorites]
posted by elizardbits at 1:41 PM on October 8, 2012 [6 favorites]
elizardbits: I'm not assuming bad faith generally, but a comment like "Man, if I had CDO, those would really bother me." (10 favorites) doesn't make me assume that it comes from a place of sympathy and understanding.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:44 PM on October 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:44 PM on October 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
Ok then, yes, point.
posted by elizardbits at 1:49 PM on October 8, 2012
posted by elizardbits at 1:49 PM on October 8, 2012
liketitanic: Yes, that's a very good point. I'm really, truly not trying to shame anyone here and for me this really is an issue of awareness-raising. It's just something that I see really frequently everywhere, and MetaFilter is one of the few places I'm able to actually point to a specific thing and say "see, this is what I'm talking about". If my framing was not good, I sincerely apologize.
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:51 PM on October 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by OverlappingElvis at 1:51 PM on October 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
I don't think the thread is really making jokes at the expense of people with OCD, although maybe some of those jokes do trivialize the illness.
Maybe this would be a good opportunity for a post on the blue on the topic of OCD, you know, in recognition of OCD Awareness Week? I think a lot of people don't have a good understanding of the disorder, which can contribute to insensitive comments.
posted by phoenixy at 1:52 PM on October 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
Maybe this would be a good opportunity for a post on the blue on the topic of OCD, you know, in recognition of OCD Awareness Week? I think a lot of people don't have a good understanding of the disorder, which can contribute to insensitive comments.
posted by phoenixy at 1:52 PM on October 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
but a comment like "Man, if I had CDO, those would really bother me." (10 favorites) doesn't make me assume that it comes from a place of sympathy and understanding.
That was actually pretty funny and just because 10 people found it funny doesn't mean much of anything.
Not to disparage your post or line of thought, OP, but I think it's important to realize that humor is a tool for dealing with illness. As the spousal unit to someone with a veritable laundry list of mental and physical illnesses (we store it on our iPhones), I've realized that some people could not get through a day of dealing with their issues without some humor, even if it may seem off-putting to others.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:11 PM on October 8, 2012 [11 favorites]
That was actually pretty funny and just because 10 people found it funny doesn't mean much of anything.
Not to disparage your post or line of thought, OP, but I think it's important to realize that humor is a tool for dealing with illness. As the spousal unit to someone with a veritable laundry list of mental and physical illnesses (we store it on our iPhones), I've realized that some people could not get through a day of dealing with their issues without some humor, even if it may seem off-putting to others.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 2:11 PM on October 8, 2012 [11 favorites]
I just started getting all sensitive about OCD being trivialized when my niece was recently diagnosed with it, and turns out she suffers from a lot of intrusive thoughts, a symptom I was not really aware of before, and which can be quite crippling for a young teen.
posted by ericost at 2:28 PM on October 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by ericost at 2:28 PM on October 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
Not to disparage your post or line of thought, OP, but I think it's important to realize that humor is a tool for dealing with illness.
A particular consistent set of intrusive thoughts has become a freaking hilarious in-joke for me and my wife.
BUT
It's still good to be sensitive to others' issues (even if they're similar to yours, their coping methods may be different).
There are aspects A of my life that I can joke about with group X (people that I know have NOT experienced A), but that I would not joke about with group Y (people that HAD experienced A). Because I don't know whether Y people are at the point where humor is appropriate. If I made a joke about A and someone says "dude, not helping", it is the kind thing to do to not joke about A in that person's company.
This is a public space. In any given subject, my comfort level with humor is not your comfort level with humor. It's good to accommodate others when it's reasonable to do so. If humor is essential to someone as a coping device, they really can do it somewhere else.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 2:54 PM on October 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
A particular consistent set of intrusive thoughts has become a freaking hilarious in-joke for me and my wife.
BUT
It's still good to be sensitive to others' issues (even if they're similar to yours, their coping methods may be different).
There are aspects A of my life that I can joke about with group X (people that I know have NOT experienced A), but that I would not joke about with group Y (people that HAD experienced A). Because I don't know whether Y people are at the point where humor is appropriate. If I made a joke about A and someone says "dude, not helping", it is the kind thing to do to not joke about A in that person's company.
This is a public space. In any given subject, my comfort level with humor is not your comfort level with humor. It's good to accommodate others when it's reasonable to do so. If humor is essential to someone as a coping device, they really can do it somewhere else.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 2:54 PM on October 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
Sometimes it's good to get a reminder that we should be more thoughtful about others. I know I sometimes use OCD as lazy shorthand, I'll try and rein that in.
posted by arcticseal at 2:55 PM on October 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
posted by arcticseal at 2:55 PM on October 8, 2012 [3 favorites]
Sensitivity for other people who are suffering is quite a good thing to bring up. Thanks, OP.
I'm not sure, though, that when people joke about this, they are actually being disparaging. I really think that many people, on some level, suspect that their frustration over details like this might actually comes from a similar place as those who suffer from OCD. They might be wrong about that, but I suspect that joking about it comes from more of a place of empathy than ill intent. On some level, they think they "get it" (even if they really don't). Then they laugh, as a way of getting by with this life irritation.
Additionally, I'm not sure that people have another short-hand way of describing the frustration that they feel with some details like this, so they default to referencing it as OCD. Even if they are not the same thing, the slight family resemblance makes it feel helpful for describing an experience that doesn't have another term for it. I suspect that if there was another suggested and well-known way of talking about this (admittedly minor) life irritation, it might be adopted.
posted by SpacemanStix at 3:20 PM on October 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
I'm not sure, though, that when people joke about this, they are actually being disparaging. I really think that many people, on some level, suspect that their frustration over details like this might actually comes from a similar place as those who suffer from OCD. They might be wrong about that, but I suspect that joking about it comes from more of a place of empathy than ill intent. On some level, they think they "get it" (even if they really don't). Then they laugh, as a way of getting by with this life irritation.
Additionally, I'm not sure that people have another short-hand way of describing the frustration that they feel with some details like this, so they default to referencing it as OCD. Even if they are not the same thing, the slight family resemblance makes it feel helpful for describing an experience that doesn't have another term for it. I suspect that if there was another suggested and well-known way of talking about this (admittedly minor) life irritation, it might be adopted.
posted by SpacemanStix at 3:20 PM on October 8, 2012 [1 favorite]
I imagine I'd get the diagnosis if I sought treatment (I am a hoarder, and sometimes must return to the house after getting a block away to check the lock ~8 times, after about 4 of which it occurs to me I could have left a burner on, then unlocking the door to check that sets off a new round of door checking, and other stuff) my partner has trichotillomania and door/burner/iron/ alarm/faucet checking, and comes from a family with multiple, multiple manifestations, including a niece who weirded out grade school and jr. high teachers by writing papers and then tracing over each word two more times, and nothing in that thread seemed remotely offensive to me as of this writing.
Given the well-established connection between OCD and religiosity, I'd guess the average MetaFilter post about anything to do with faith would be more of a problem than that thread.
posted by jamjam at 3:20 PM on October 8, 2012
Given the well-established connection between OCD and religiosity, I'd guess the average MetaFilter post about anything to do with faith would be more of a problem than that thread.
posted by jamjam at 3:20 PM on October 8, 2012
I feel like this community tends to frown on shitty comments about depression, eating disorders, and a lot of other mental health issues, so I don't see why OCD should be treated any differently.
I wonder if it really is?
I was recently going back and reading some old comments of mine, and I happened upon a thread which presented hoarding in a serious light. No one really made jokes about hoarding in that thread, because it was a serious topic, but there were certainly commenters who certainly considered hoarding to be sort of an extension of their own tendency towards clutter (which it sort of is, but really isn't) or talked about hoarding as if the reality show Hoarders was the be-all, end-all expert on the topic. I think we have had more humourous posts about hoarding that led to jokes of a similar nature to the ones in the OCD thread.
Not that it's not insensitive in either case, but I don't think it's a sign that Mefites "don't handle hoarding/OCD well" - it's a sign of ignorance rather than maliciousness.
posted by muddgirl at 3:27 PM on October 8, 2012
I wonder if it really is?
I was recently going back and reading some old comments of mine, and I happened upon a thread which presented hoarding in a serious light. No one really made jokes about hoarding in that thread, because it was a serious topic, but there were certainly commenters who certainly considered hoarding to be sort of an extension of their own tendency towards clutter (which it sort of is, but really isn't) or talked about hoarding as if the reality show Hoarders was the be-all, end-all expert on the topic. I think we have had more humourous posts about hoarding that led to jokes of a similar nature to the ones in the OCD thread.
Not that it's not insensitive in either case, but I don't think it's a sign that Mefites "don't handle hoarding/OCD well" - it's a sign of ignorance rather than maliciousness.
posted by muddgirl at 3:27 PM on October 8, 2012
I'm not sure, though, that when people joke about this, they are actually being disparaging. I really think that many people, on some level, suspect that their frustration over details like this might actually comes from a similar place as those who suffer from OCD. They might be wrong about that, but I suspect that joking about it comes from more of a place of empathy than ill intent. On some level, they think they "get it" (even if they really don't). Then they laugh, as a way of getting by with this life irritation.
Or yeah, this. I do hurt, for some reason, when someone comments along the lines of, "Gosh, reading about this person's hoard makes me want to go home and clean out my closets!" But I think an empathic response is a good first step to understanding/awareness, even if it's misguided.
posted by muddgirl at 3:32 PM on October 8, 2012
Or yeah, this. I do hurt, for some reason, when someone comments along the lines of, "Gosh, reading about this person's hoard makes me want to go home and clean out my closets!" But I think an empathic response is a good first step to understanding/awareness, even if it's misguided.
posted by muddgirl at 3:32 PM on October 8, 2012
I was diagnosed with OCD last year. I almost made a comment in the linked thread about it, but for some reason or another I didn't. It goes without saying that I do not speak for everyone with OCD and my experiences aren't universal, etc.
Actual OCD is so different from the pop-culture idea of OCD that I didn't even believe my diagnosis at first. I was like, fft, have you seen my closet? And my inbox? And my purse? And my hair? I'm generally a pretty disorganized person.
Instead, I get intrusive thoughts. Usually about death and all the ways it could happen to me RIGHT NOW. When it was at its worst, I checked my pulse several times an hour to make sure my heart was still beating, and some nights I was afraid to fall asleep, and I just could not comprehend that people could know what death was and not be constantly flipping out about it. I knew I was being irrational, but it's really hard to speak rationally to a voice screaming DEAAAATH! I'm lucky, in that my intrusive thoughts have mostly receded over the past year.
When people are like "I have to keep my desk clean; I'm soooo OCD!" it doesn't hurt my feelings or offend me, but it does irk me a little bit because that's not what OCD is. I can't tell you how many times coworkers have made offhand "I'm soooo OCD" comments while I - probably voted Least Likely To Have OCD by my coworkers - have held my tongue. I totally get the urge to have everything just so, and I do have my "it has to be this way" idiosyncrasies like just about everyone, but it's not the same thing as OCD.
It sucks a little that I didn't know much about OCD until I found out I had it. I don't mind the jokes, but most of them are based on an interpretation of OCD that's off the mark. If we squash that misconception, we might see more people with for-real OCD seeking treatment sooner, instead of thinking they're generically "going crazy," or reacting to a diagnosis with "fft, not me."
posted by Metroid Baby at 4:13 PM on October 8, 2012 [28 favorites]
Actual OCD is so different from the pop-culture idea of OCD that I didn't even believe my diagnosis at first. I was like, fft, have you seen my closet? And my inbox? And my purse? And my hair? I'm generally a pretty disorganized person.
Instead, I get intrusive thoughts. Usually about death and all the ways it could happen to me RIGHT NOW. When it was at its worst, I checked my pulse several times an hour to make sure my heart was still beating, and some nights I was afraid to fall asleep, and I just could not comprehend that people could know what death was and not be constantly flipping out about it. I knew I was being irrational, but it's really hard to speak rationally to a voice screaming DEAAAATH! I'm lucky, in that my intrusive thoughts have mostly receded over the past year.
When people are like "I have to keep my desk clean; I'm soooo OCD!" it doesn't hurt my feelings or offend me, but it does irk me a little bit because that's not what OCD is. I can't tell you how many times coworkers have made offhand "I'm soooo OCD" comments while I - probably voted Least Likely To Have OCD by my coworkers - have held my tongue. I totally get the urge to have everything just so, and I do have my "it has to be this way" idiosyncrasies like just about everyone, but it's not the same thing as OCD.
It sucks a little that I didn't know much about OCD until I found out I had it. I don't mind the jokes, but most of them are based on an interpretation of OCD that's off the mark. If we squash that misconception, we might see more people with for-real OCD seeking treatment sooner, instead of thinking they're generically "going crazy," or reacting to a diagnosis with "fft, not me."
posted by Metroid Baby at 4:13 PM on October 8, 2012 [28 favorites]
i've felt for years, maybe a decade or more that my nail biting, hair pulling, eyelash plucking, scab picking, skin scratching (and then pica that is all mixed up with it) has been obsessive. i'm not the "neat freak" that is usually portrayed in the media. most would probably consider me sort of a slob (the skin picking doesn't help). but anxiety and ocd behaviors basically rule me. i half jokingly/half seriously say sometimes "i don't know what people without anxiety do with all their time!"
watching my facebook wall react to pathological grooming being categorized as an OCD behavior made me want to punch walls. it was "haha, i'm so ocd, i bite my nails like all the time" and i wanted to say "do your nail beds and cuticles bleed daily because you can't stop*? have you ever had to check the mirror before going to the grocery store to make sure you have enough eyelashes left so you don't get stared at**?" and i know - it's harmless. they don't mean it. it's either lazy or an attempt at empathy, but i wish people realized that they're not standing in a tiny group of friends who get all their jokes that are directed at groups they aren't a part of.
on preview - i feel like Metroid Baby said what i was trying to get at way better than i did (also, yeah, the disorganization and thoughts of death and the taking a while to realize it's not all counting stairs and washing the floors).
*actually i have stopped that. i got really interested in nail art and i worked really hard to move to keeping my nails really tidy and clean and painted nicely. i managed to not bite them through a death, a wedding, six extended family visits, getting a pet, and numerous menstrual cycles. now, if i could stop ripping off my toe nails and tackle all the other pathological grooming stuff i'd be on my way.
**this i did two days ago. i'm ok for right now, but only because my eyelashes are generally light so the hairs growing back in don't look so out of place.
posted by nadawi at 4:27 PM on October 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
watching my facebook wall react to pathological grooming being categorized as an OCD behavior made me want to punch walls. it was "haha, i'm so ocd, i bite my nails like all the time" and i wanted to say "do your nail beds and cuticles bleed daily because you can't stop*? have you ever had to check the mirror before going to the grocery store to make sure you have enough eyelashes left so you don't get stared at**?" and i know - it's harmless. they don't mean it. it's either lazy or an attempt at empathy, but i wish people realized that they're not standing in a tiny group of friends who get all their jokes that are directed at groups they aren't a part of.
on preview - i feel like Metroid Baby said what i was trying to get at way better than i did (also, yeah, the disorganization and thoughts of death and the taking a while to realize it's not all counting stairs and washing the floors).
*actually i have stopped that. i got really interested in nail art and i worked really hard to move to keeping my nails really tidy and clean and painted nicely. i managed to not bite them through a death, a wedding, six extended family visits, getting a pet, and numerous menstrual cycles. now, if i could stop ripping off my toe nails and tackle all the other pathological grooming stuff i'd be on my way.
**this i did two days ago. i'm ok for right now, but only because my eyelashes are generally light so the hairs growing back in don't look so out of place.
posted by nadawi at 4:27 PM on October 8, 2012 [4 favorites]
I think part of this is that the phrase "anal retentive" has largely been replaced by "OCD" in common parlance.
Many of the pictures in the linked gallery create discomfort for myself and others, as well as a distinct frustration that our compulsion to fix them is stymied. In my industry (computer software/hardware engineering) both an obsession with tiny details that are out of place and a compulsion to fix them are career advantages; That gallery was very popular among my cohorts.
Somewhere down the line "OCD" was co-opted to describe these traits and I'm not sure you're going to be able to get it back. Many people in the computer industry are proud of their obsessive/compulsive traits and unless you can give them a different phrase to use I think that "OCD" is probably going to have both meanings.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:38 PM on October 8, 2012
Many of the pictures in the linked gallery create discomfort for myself and others, as well as a distinct frustration that our compulsion to fix them is stymied. In my industry (computer software/hardware engineering) both an obsession with tiny details that are out of place and a compulsion to fix them are career advantages; That gallery was very popular among my cohorts.
Somewhere down the line "OCD" was co-opted to describe these traits and I'm not sure you're going to be able to get it back. Many people in the computer industry are proud of their obsessive/compulsive traits and unless you can give them a different phrase to use I think that "OCD" is probably going to have both meanings.
posted by Tell Me No Lies at 4:38 PM on October 8, 2012
if i could stop ripping off my toe nails and tackle all the other pathological grooming stuff i'd be on my way.
Yeah and it's comment like this that make me think "I should maybe really see a doctor about this" since I have basically no toenails left because I obsessively pick at them. The rule of thumb about a lot of these sorts of thing is that you go see a doctor or a therapist when something is interfering with your life.
One of the things that AskMe and internet communities generally have taught me is that people (and smart people specifically) can sometimes rework their entire lives in heroic fashion so that whatever their thing is that might be a thing that medicine or therapy could make go away does not interfere with their life. Which is good news and bad news.
If you have an unfixable thing, it's good to be able to make peace with it. If you have an easily-fixed thing that you don't like very much, it's good to know that you may have the option for it to be fixed. A lot of people fall in the middle where they have a thing that might be easily fixed, or it might be a gigantic hassle to work on and still never be fixed. And people who have had a similar malady that was either never-fixed or easily-fixed like to give people advice about that.
I am like a gibbering fool in threads on AskMe where people ask questions about being afraid to take their anti-anxiety medication because I was there and it was awful and then I (somehow) turned a corner and things got so much better. But I've just learned to live with my often-bloody stunted non-toenails. And discussions like this make me think maybe I have some better options.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:44 PM on October 8, 2012 [23 favorites]
Yeah and it's comment like this that make me think "I should maybe really see a doctor about this" since I have basically no toenails left because I obsessively pick at them. The rule of thumb about a lot of these sorts of thing is that you go see a doctor or a therapist when something is interfering with your life.
One of the things that AskMe and internet communities generally have taught me is that people (and smart people specifically) can sometimes rework their entire lives in heroic fashion so that whatever their thing is that might be a thing that medicine or therapy could make go away does not interfere with their life. Which is good news and bad news.
If you have an unfixable thing, it's good to be able to make peace with it. If you have an easily-fixed thing that you don't like very much, it's good to know that you may have the option for it to be fixed. A lot of people fall in the middle where they have a thing that might be easily fixed, or it might be a gigantic hassle to work on and still never be fixed. And people who have had a similar malady that was either never-fixed or easily-fixed like to give people advice about that.
I am like a gibbering fool in threads on AskMe where people ask questions about being afraid to take their anti-anxiety medication because I was there and it was awful and then I (somehow) turned a corner and things got so much better. But I've just learned to live with my often-bloody stunted non-toenails. And discussions like this make me think maybe I have some better options.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:44 PM on October 8, 2012 [23 favorites]
op, I totally hear and respect you on this issue.
posted by OsoMeaty at 4:46 PM on October 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
posted by OsoMeaty at 4:46 PM on October 8, 2012 [2 favorites]
My mom has OCD, and when she got effective treatment for it when I was a child, it changed my life. She likes to say "I'm still O, just not C or D," by which she means that she still cares about those things, but her thoughts no longer compel her to a disordered degree. Her illness manifests, among other things, as a pathological inability to make decisions; she once was trying to buy a belt to go with a certain dress, and she found one in the perfect color but the wrong width and one in the perfect width but the wrong color (both beige, 1/4" difference between them) and she went into a fugue state that was only interrupted by the sales clerk shaking her and yelling for help. She was 45 minutes late to get us from school that day -- because, of course, she had gone shopping on the way to get us from school, because she could never just go somewhere and do something, everything had to be on the way to everything else, or else you were wasting time -- and that was the incident that shook her up enough that she finally sought treatment.
When people around me jokingly refer to being OCD because their habitats are perfectly clean or because they care about details, it doesn't offend me, but it does irk me. I tell them "No you're not. You're just O. You are obsessive, but you are neither compelled or disordered." 99% of the time people either get it or pretend to.
One thing I will say for Monk and Hanners, though; whether or not they're an accurate portrayal of OCD in particular, I think they are both very effective and humanizing portrayals of what it's like to live with a disabling mental illness, and what it looks like when you begin to recover from that illness. Sometimes you have good days, sometimes you have bad days. It's not that you don't know you're not rational; you do, but knowing it isn't enough. Monk in particular was very good about that to me, partly because of Tony Shaloub's amazing acting. Sometimes he really reveled in his tics and behaviors, sometimes he clung to them, sometimes he was trapped by them. It was very familiar to me.
posted by KathrynT at 4:59 PM on October 8, 2012 [6 favorites]
When people around me jokingly refer to being OCD because their habitats are perfectly clean or because they care about details, it doesn't offend me, but it does irk me. I tell them "No you're not. You're just O. You are obsessive, but you are neither compelled or disordered." 99% of the time people either get it or pretend to.
One thing I will say for Monk and Hanners, though; whether or not they're an accurate portrayal of OCD in particular, I think they are both very effective and humanizing portrayals of what it's like to live with a disabling mental illness, and what it looks like when you begin to recover from that illness. Sometimes you have good days, sometimes you have bad days. It's not that you don't know you're not rational; you do, but knowing it isn't enough. Monk in particular was very good about that to me, partly because of Tony Shaloub's amazing acting. Sometimes he really reveled in his tics and behaviors, sometimes he clung to them, sometimes he was trapped by them. It was very familiar to me.
posted by KathrynT at 4:59 PM on October 8, 2012 [6 favorites]
Thank you very much. That thread you referenced sure was shitty. I have OCD and I absolutely hate it when people reference OCD as some cute quirk or pretend they or someone they know has it because they are organized. So annoying.
posted by agregoli at 5:06 PM on October 8, 2012
posted by agregoli at 5:06 PM on October 8, 2012
Yeah, I hear you. (But...) There's specific Internet-chat-stuff that burns me up (until I go for a walk), but we'll never know the background of who's making what comments, and with what rationale. And you'll never know who doesn't share in a thread for those same reasons. (For instance, I found the MeTa thread yesterday wildly disturbing and full of bizarre wrong-thinking, for personal reasons, but I don't want my stuff put out there on the Internet.)
I've been castigated a few times for using the word "crazy" and for being "cavalier" about language around mental illness and the like. I've never really responded to any of those people, but if I did, it'd just be to say "I was crazy for the first time back when you were in diapers, so get stuffed!" Similarly, some of us with OCD are in practice going to be, for better or for worse (probably, to be honest, worse!), somewhat undermining of the effort to improve general language use about OCD. (That being said, at heart, we're on your side.)
posted by RJ Reynolds at 5:56 PM on October 8, 2012
I've been castigated a few times for using the word "crazy" and for being "cavalier" about language around mental illness and the like. I've never really responded to any of those people, but if I did, it'd just be to say "I was crazy for the first time back when you were in diapers, so get stuffed!" Similarly, some of us with OCD are in practice going to be, for better or for worse (probably, to be honest, worse!), somewhat undermining of the effort to improve general language use about OCD. (That being said, at heart, we're on your side.)
posted by RJ Reynolds at 5:56 PM on October 8, 2012
I think part of this is that the phrase "anal retentive" has largely been replaced by "OCD" in common parlance.
Which is why I'd like to see Type A make a comeback.
posted by space_cookie at 6:37 PM on October 8, 2012
Which is why I'd like to see Type A make a comeback.
posted by space_cookie at 6:37 PM on October 8, 2012
I have bipolar disorder, and the very fact that sometimes "crazy" or "take your meds" or such are considered not-serious things to say upsets me. I have been struggling for a long time, and although I was diagnosed ten years ago I am still adjusting medications - which is not unusual. For me, this has been a very serious thing, and not something to be casual about. I understand that there are some who are able to find humor in their struggle, however I do not think it's good practice to assume that everyone feels this way.
As an aside, hair pulling and skin picking/nail biting are going to be moved out from under the canopy of OCD in the next version of the DSM. Hair pulling (which I also have) is known as trichotillomania, skin picking as dermatillomania, and they are seen as a separate thing from OCD. Just mentioning in case it will help someone who suffers these things but has always been told it is OCD.
posted by veerat at 8:40 AM on October 9, 2012
As an aside, hair pulling and skin picking/nail biting are going to be moved out from under the canopy of OCD in the next version of the DSM. Hair pulling (which I also have) is known as trichotillomania, skin picking as dermatillomania, and they are seen as a separate thing from OCD. Just mentioning in case it will help someone who suffers these things but has always been told it is OCD.
posted by veerat at 8:40 AM on October 9, 2012
veerat - i thought i had just read that they were going to be considered under the big umbrella of "pathological grooming" if they were all there together. here's npr talking about it. previously nail biting was "not otherwise classified."
posted by nadawi at 11:14 AM on October 9, 2012
posted by nadawi at 11:14 AM on October 9, 2012
In fairness to the would be comedians, I was in my basement, pinned down by sniper fire, with dead firefighter and two wounded cops in my street when I made my first sniper joke to my wife. It was that or go crazy.
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 12:16 PM on October 9, 2012
posted by Kid Charlemagne at 12:16 PM on October 9, 2012
Assuming "crazy" wasn't malicious since I mentioned it. It's one thing to apply humor to a situation that would cause excessive stress to yourself. It's another thing to use humor concerning an illness that causes suffering to others.
posted by veerat at 2:07 PM on October 9, 2012
posted by veerat at 2:07 PM on October 9, 2012
Some thoughts about the term "crazy", from an essay by a woman who was involuntarily committed:
Speaking as someone with a diagnosed mental illness, I'd love to see people's use of "crazy" shift to mean only "wacky, goofy, silly, etc." and have it come seem like a strange and inappropriate word to use in reference to mental illness — calling someone with schizophrenia "crazy" would seem as odd and wrong as saying that their condition is due to an excess of black bile.
posted by Lexica at 2:36 PM on October 9, 2012 [7 favorites]
One of the things that disability activists often protest, which had never bothered me before, is how often people use “crazy” to mean “bad.” This can send the message that having a mental illness means you are bad, and that it’s therefore a shameful secret you have to keep. Which is the opposite of healthy. I’d never noticed it until I was recovering, at which point “crazy” seemed to be everywhere. And at first, it did hurt. If “crazy” could be used to write off a woman who’s upset even when she has no history of illness, it could definitely be used to write off a woman who’d spent two days in the hospital. But I still use it myself, and here’s why: if you’re rowdy and funny at a party, you’re so “crazy.” If someone is nasty and passive-aggressive, that drives you “crazy.” If you go over to that person’s house and place a bag of flaming dog poop on their doorstep, you’re acting “crazy.” (Also, don’t.) But if you have to go to the hospital because people think you might die, then you’re ill. Ill people are not to be dismissed, mocked, or insulted by being called crazy, THAT is an insensitive misuse of the word. And anyone who makes fun of someone for being ill is an asshole, and what assholes think fundamentally does not matter.Source: Rookie magazine, On Falling Apart.
Speaking as someone with a diagnosed mental illness, I'd love to see people's use of "crazy" shift to mean only "wacky, goofy, silly, etc." and have it come seem like a strange and inappropriate word to use in reference to mental illness — calling someone with schizophrenia "crazy" would seem as odd and wrong as saying that their condition is due to an excess of black bile.
posted by Lexica at 2:36 PM on October 9, 2012 [7 favorites]
One suggestion (apologies if I missed someone making it above). Probably when I first heard the term OCD, it was sufficiently interesting that I too used it descriptively for non-clinical obsessive behavior.Then I realized that this didn't fit with my ethics around language. Now I try to use the words "obsessive" or "compulsive" to describe the actions themselves, rather than appropriating the actual diagnosis as a metaphor for my own non-OCD experience.
On another note, I really like the thing folks have pointed out about how that very appropriation of the diagnosis contains a seed of empathy, about which, yay.
Also, great link, Lexica.
posted by Mngo at 3:26 PM on October 9, 2012
On another note, I really like the thing folks have pointed out about how that very appropriation of the diagnosis contains a seed of empathy, about which, yay.
Also, great link, Lexica.
posted by Mngo at 3:26 PM on October 9, 2012
Oct. 8-12 isn't a week, it's only five days.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 5:28 PM on October 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
posted by mr_crash_davis at 5:28 PM on October 9, 2012 [1 favorite]
I have OCD, and I don't really get upset about its flippant usage. I couldn't say why, but its probably related to the "I could be afflicted in many more horrible ways" mantra I try to live by.
posted by Brocktoon at 8:41 PM on October 9, 2012
posted by Brocktoon at 8:41 PM on October 9, 2012
Ugh, Colbert did a terrible bit last night imagining Obama voters as OCDers unable to leave the house on election day. In light of this thread I found it as unfunny as when he does his "mock" racist Asian accent. I'd call it "lame" but that's another word I'm working out of my brain.
posted by Mngo at 11:46 AM on October 10, 2012
posted by Mngo at 11:46 AM on October 10, 2012
Yeah, that's a pretty messed up to to call 5 days OCD week. That's like giving a toast to AA. "Everybody raise there glass in celebration of all the good work Alcoholics Anonymous has done! Cheers to them. And remember, don't forget to set aside 5 days for OCD week."
posted by BurnChao at 12:30 PM on October 11, 2012
posted by BurnChao at 12:30 PM on October 11, 2012
I think humor is one avenue society takes to begin to address a thing seriously, and that it's not that we are too enlightened now to say [offensive or casual reference to a thing] but the initial, long, and insensitive period of that word or phrase as a joke was how we got to the enlightened place. It became ok to talk about people with [accepted or considerate name of thing], where before those afflicted were shunted off, away from society.
Perhaps the increased use of OCD in conversation is part of a broader awareness on the path to understanding, rather than treated the afflicted as weird or difficult?
posted by zippy at 12:09 AM on October 14, 2012
Perhaps the increased use of OCD in conversation is part of a broader awareness on the path to understanding, rather than treated the afflicted as weird or difficult?
posted by zippy at 12:09 AM on October 14, 2012
I just noticed this. And I really disagree with Brocktoon's statement: I couldn't say why, but its probably related to the "I could be afflicted in many more horrible ways" mantra I try to live by.
My OCD has caused me serious issues for my entire life (since I was about 7). My psychologist doesn't allow me to minimize the pain it has caused me. And that pain has been substantial. I don't think I have ever had to fight something as hard as I've had to fight my OCD, and I used to date a guy who hit me.
I do find it obnoxious and offensive when people say they're "so OCD", and especially when they make fun of the disorder. I discount those people as thoughtless at the best, and assholes at the worst. It's not fucking funny. I'm actually teary right now thinking of all the stupid, ignorant, bitchy comments people have made to me about my OCD. I really don't care for the excuse that the term "OCD" has been co-opted forever either. I don't fucking care. If they care so little about other people, then I don't see why I should care about their excuses for their behavior.
posted by Coatlicue at 8:13 AM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]
My OCD has caused me serious issues for my entire life (since I was about 7). My psychologist doesn't allow me to minimize the pain it has caused me. And that pain has been substantial. I don't think I have ever had to fight something as hard as I've had to fight my OCD, and I used to date a guy who hit me.
I do find it obnoxious and offensive when people say they're "so OCD", and especially when they make fun of the disorder. I discount those people as thoughtless at the best, and assholes at the worst. It's not fucking funny. I'm actually teary right now thinking of all the stupid, ignorant, bitchy comments people have made to me about my OCD. I really don't care for the excuse that the term "OCD" has been co-opted forever either. I don't fucking care. If they care so little about other people, then I don't see why I should care about their excuses for their behavior.
posted by Coatlicue at 8:13 AM on October 31, 2012 [2 favorites]
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I think that having some empathy for many disorders comes from seeing a small glimmer of what it must be like for someone within one's self isn't a terrible thing, and though I don't think there really is a thing as "a light case of OCD" (because part of the disorder is that it infringes upon one's life negatively, and if it's just a tendency toward liking the neat and tidy, that's not really a disorder so much as a preference), I don't think it diminishes my struggles when people say it about themselves.
"Retarded" is a different case, I think, because people use it as an insult to others, which in turn is an insult to those who in another time would be classified with that term.
posted by xingcat at 1:26 PM on October 8, 2012 [17 favorites]