FanFare pony request: alternative episode descriptors November 10, 2014 6:39 AM Subscribe
Could we have an option for a text entry field for the episode number on a TV show? Sometimes there are specials - like Dr Who's famous Christmas Specials, for example; or in anime series there will sometimes be a separate OVA that happens outside of the normal story arc.
I ran across this for a Fringe episode which was made and shown out of sequence to the rest of S2. I wanted to call it "Special Episode" or something similar but couldn't.
What do others think? I am still relatively new to posting on FanFare so maybe this would be more confusing than I think it would be?
If this is already a thing that exists, please tell me so I can feel that my every need is being anticipated.
I ran across this for a Fringe episode which was made and shown out of sequence to the rest of S2. I wanted to call it "Special Episode" or something similar but couldn't.
What do others think? I am still relatively new to posting on FanFare so maybe this would be more confusing than I think it would be?
If this is already a thing that exists, please tell me so I can feel that my every need is being anticipated.
We'll think about this. IMDB lists that Fringe episode as Season 2, Episode 11 just like you did here. Wikipedia lists it that way too. I think that makes sense. Having the extra background info on when it was filmed compared to the rest of the season was also very useful. I'm not sure that information needs to be listed along with the episode number, however.
The Dr. Who issue is different, I think. Those don't fit perfectly within the season/episode structure. So far, Dr. Who is the only show where that's an issue at FanFare but I'm sure there are other examples. Having an "out of season" option might help for Christmas Specials.
posted by pb (staff) at 8:52 AM on November 10, 2014
The Dr. Who issue is different, I think. Those don't fit perfectly within the season/episode structure. So far, Dr. Who is the only show where that's an issue at FanFare but I'm sure there are other examples. Having an "out of season" option might help for Christmas Specials.
posted by pb (staff) at 8:52 AM on November 10, 2014
Downton Abbey has distinct special xmas episodes, too, but no one's been posting the show to FanFare. (I've assumed this is because the US airings of the current, just-ended season won't begin until January.). But I'm sure these aren't the only examples. What about shows, like some older ones on SyFy, that have special television "movies"? Those could be posted as movies, but then they won't appear in the index associated with the show.
"Specials" are common enough that other software for organizing television content explicitly deals with them. I use Plex as my media server and I've recently been organizing directory and file names to ensure that it gets the correct metadata for stuff, and so I'm especially aware of this at the moment.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:02 AM on November 10, 2014
"Specials" are common enough that other software for organizing television content explicitly deals with them. I use Plex as my media server and I've recently been organizing directory and file names to ensure that it gets the correct metadata for stuff, and so I'm especially aware of this at the moment.
posted by Ivan Fyodorovich at 11:02 AM on November 10, 2014
What about shows, like some older ones on SyFy, that have special television "movies"?
I'm guessing that if there's an IMDb page for the movie as a separate entity, then it could be posted as a stand-alone item, then connected to the series by way of the tags.
I use Plex as my media server and I've recently been organizing directory and file names to ensure that it gets the correct metadata for stuff, and so I'm especially aware of this at the moment.
Interesting that you mentioned Plex. I was searching for "shows that have non-standard episode numbers" and this Plex support page came up, referring to how TheTVDB names specials (as Episode 00, or categorized into a separate "Specials" set).
posted by filthy light thief at 11:07 AM on November 10, 2014
I'm guessing that if there's an IMDb page for the movie as a separate entity, then it could be posted as a stand-alone item, then connected to the series by way of the tags.
I use Plex as my media server and I've recently been organizing directory and file names to ensure that it gets the correct metadata for stuff, and so I'm especially aware of this at the moment.
Interesting that you mentioned Plex. I was searching for "shows that have non-standard episode numbers" and this Plex support page came up, referring to how TheTVDB names specials (as Episode 00, or categorized into a separate "Specials" set).
posted by filthy light thief at 11:07 AM on November 10, 2014
The thing with the Fringe episode is that although IMDB, Wikipedia and the Fringepedia all classify it as episode 11, the DVD does not. It's a special feature. I don't know what Netflix does since I live in a country that has no Netflix.
But it's arguable that the way the DVD was released is more reflective of how the show's creators felt it was meant to be watched than an order derived from how it originally aired. I can tell you, it sticks out like a sore thumb.
Not to get into a huge nitpicking session over one show, but it's an example of how TV series don't always progress in a linear fashion simply in the mechanics of how they're produced, let alone plot. Most of the mechanisms for describing them work in a linear fashion so will tend to impose an order based on chronology. This isn't necessarily the most meaningful way of doing it.
Similarly, isolating a specific instance away from the rest of the series and linking through tags seems unnecessarily fractured. I don't tend to search by tag, I search by title. I don't think I'm alone.
Either way, thanks for the metadata geekfest. Makes my little librarian heart happy.
posted by Athanassiel at 2:20 PM on November 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
But it's arguable that the way the DVD was released is more reflective of how the show's creators felt it was meant to be watched than an order derived from how it originally aired. I can tell you, it sticks out like a sore thumb.
Not to get into a huge nitpicking session over one show, but it's an example of how TV series don't always progress in a linear fashion simply in the mechanics of how they're produced, let alone plot. Most of the mechanisms for describing them work in a linear fashion so will tend to impose an order based on chronology. This isn't necessarily the most meaningful way of doing it.
Similarly, isolating a specific instance away from the rest of the series and linking through tags seems unnecessarily fractured. I don't tend to search by tag, I search by title. I don't think I'm alone.
Either way, thanks for the metadata geekfest. Makes my little librarian heart happy.
posted by Athanassiel at 2:20 PM on November 10, 2014 [2 favorites]
it's an example of how TV series don't always progress in a linear fashion simply in the mechanics of how they're produced
True, and I think it's something we'll have to keep thinking about as we see more of the odd cases and keep building out the site functionality. For me, right now I'm inclined to favor a simpler if imperfect method if it's good enough to make show posts findable/searchable for folks even if it doesn't render totally faithfully whatever idiosyncratic intent the show producers had in mind (which, see also as you note the way several online resources have it listed "wrong" in the same way that doesn't really get in the way of looking for it), but where exactly to draw that line is obviously kind of subjective and not set in stone.
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:44 PM on November 10, 2014
True, and I think it's something we'll have to keep thinking about as we see more of the odd cases and keep building out the site functionality. For me, right now I'm inclined to favor a simpler if imperfect method if it's good enough to make show posts findable/searchable for folks even if it doesn't render totally faithfully whatever idiosyncratic intent the show producers had in mind (which, see also as you note the way several online resources have it listed "wrong" in the same way that doesn't really get in the way of looking for it), but where exactly to draw that line is obviously kind of subjective and not set in stone.
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:44 PM on November 10, 2014
Fair enough, cortex. And I was careful not to say that the online resources have it wrong! There's no right or wrong here, it's just different ways of describing something. Both are accurate. I am just professionally aware of the usefulness of describing things in a way that makes them more usable.
The latest standard in cataloguing, for example, emphasises describing the items as it is in its physical form (if it has one) rather than relying on artifically-assigned descriptors. This has been a pretty radical change in the library world in a way, and yet completely practical and normal in another. If the DVD calls it a special feature, call it a special feature because what people will use is the DVD, and what the internet describes as "episode 11" is something different.
Only, of course, with material that exists in multiple formats and is described in different ways, it's going to get confusing. I know. But a text-entry option, or even an "other" option would still be useful. I'll shut up now with my metadata geekery.
posted by Athanassiel at 8:51 PM on November 10, 2014
The latest standard in cataloguing, for example, emphasises describing the items as it is in its physical form (if it has one) rather than relying on artifically-assigned descriptors. This has been a pretty radical change in the library world in a way, and yet completely practical and normal in another. If the DVD calls it a special feature, call it a special feature because what people will use is the DVD, and what the internet describes as "episode 11" is something different.
Only, of course, with material that exists in multiple formats and is described in different ways, it's going to get confusing. I know. But a text-entry option, or even an "other" option would still be useful. I'll shut up now with my metadata geekery.
posted by Athanassiel at 8:51 PM on November 10, 2014
Metadata geeks do it ontologically.
posted by anotherpanacea at 7:34 AM on November 11, 2014
posted by anotherpanacea at 7:34 AM on November 11, 2014
This is going into my Gamma World novel: "{£}"
HEZ USING TEMPORAL STASIS CHAMBER!!!!
posted by clavdivs at 6:44 PM on November 11, 2014
HEZ USING TEMPORAL STASIS CHAMBER!!!!
posted by clavdivs at 6:44 PM on November 11, 2014
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Given that this is not a wholly uncommon experience, a proper option to add other episode classifications would be great.
posted by filthy light thief at 7:07 AM on November 10, 2014