#WomensMarch Discussion / Support thread March 26, 2015 4:46 PM Subscribe
The last #WomensMarch MetaTalk thread has closed; I would like one open to discuss what's happening, and if anyone needs to throw out a question.
A number of people have offered to help proof drafts/give feedback on the previous thread, however, since that one is closed I thought it would be nice to have one open thread for questions/discussion and general "help!" queries.
Also the contact form can be used to ask mods to look over drafts of fpps, as cortex points out.
Really great stuff this month, it's been amazing.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 5:17 PM on March 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
Also the contact form can be used to ask mods to look over drafts of fpps, as cortex points out.
Really great stuff this month, it's been amazing.
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 5:17 PM on March 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
there are 2 more because i forgot to tag mine
posted by NoraReed at 5:46 PM on March 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by NoraReed at 5:46 PM on March 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
It has been amazing; thank you so much for 4 great weeks of FPPs! And there is still 1/6 of the month to go!!!
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:06 PM on March 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
posted by GenjiandProust at 6:06 PM on March 26, 2015 [3 favorites]
As a man, I am feeling oppressed by the huge number of quality links I've wanted to click on so far this month.
There are only so many hours in the day, people.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:32 PM on March 26, 2015 [5 favorites]
There are only so many hours in the day, people.
posted by robocop is bleeding at 6:32 PM on March 26, 2015 [5 favorites]
Should I backtag my March posts with monthbywomen? I think I must have missed that in the earlier discussion.
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:39 PM on March 26, 2015
posted by MonkeyToes at 6:39 PM on March 26, 2015
I haven't been tracking which have been tagged as "womensmarch" and which haven't, but there have been markedly more interesting FPPs this month. I wish the front page would stay this good all year long.
posted by Dip Flash at 7:39 PM on March 26, 2015 [9 favorites]
posted by Dip Flash at 7:39 PM on March 26, 2015 [9 favorites]
Smarch
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:54 PM on March 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:54 PM on March 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
(but really--it's been a helluva month. Nicely done, all!)
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:54 PM on March 26, 2015
posted by Joseph Gurl at 7:54 PM on March 26, 2015
"I haven't been tracking which have been tagged as "womensmarch" and which haven't, but there have been markedly more interesting FPPs this month. I wish the front page would stay this good all year long."
Yeah, aside from the obvious justice arguments, that's always been my self-interested reason for supporting diversity initiatives. More stuff from people less likely to have played-out perspectives! Explicit encouragement undermining normative bias!
posted by klangklangston at 8:13 PM on March 26, 2015 [7 favorites]
Yeah, aside from the obvious justice arguments, that's always been my self-interested reason for supporting diversity initiatives. More stuff from people less likely to have played-out perspectives! Explicit encouragement undermining normative bias!
posted by klangklangston at 8:13 PM on March 26, 2015 [7 favorites]
Was I the only one who kept tagging posts "MarchbyWomen?" Because it took like a week for me to get the hang of "WomensMarch" "MonthByWomen," embarrassingly enough. I think I've caught them all now, though.
It is surprising how enabling it is to catch hold of stray questions flickering through my head and have an excuse to go and hunt down the answers and share them. You all are a terrible distraction at work, but an awesome captive audience. :P And it's really startling figuring out what's going to appeal to people, too--I've posted several things thinking "ah, this is terribly self-indulgent, I bet it gets deleted or completely ignored" and had people really sit up and take notice.
Also, the things that everyone has come up with to share have been awesome. Particular highlights for me: suelac's fanvids post, which I have been linking to people in my social circles all week and actually shoved at a friend who'd had a bad week just five minutes ago; jeather's post about feminism in romance novels, which provided a lot of food for thought and made me think about picking up a couple; ellieBOA's post about elephant polo, which I thought was a hilariously daft comedy of errors. Blue Jello Elf's Neanderthal thread made me burst out laughing in the office, turn to my coworker, and make him watch too. julen's mid-century menu cookbook delighted me enough to add the blog to my rss feed so I can see gross jello foodstuffs made every week. I could probably keep going for quite a while--there have been a whole lot of really amazing topics I'd never have heard about or seen otherwise this month, and there are a lot of FPPs which really delighted me I'm not mentioning. But really, there have been so many cool topics coming up that I feel like I barely have time to follow!
posted by sciatrix at 8:19 PM on March 26, 2015 [10 favorites]
It is surprising how enabling it is to catch hold of stray questions flickering through my head and have an excuse to go and hunt down the answers and share them. You all are a terrible distraction at work, but an awesome captive audience. :P And it's really startling figuring out what's going to appeal to people, too--I've posted several things thinking "ah, this is terribly self-indulgent, I bet it gets deleted or completely ignored" and had people really sit up and take notice.
Also, the things that everyone has come up with to share have been awesome. Particular highlights for me: suelac's fanvids post, which I have been linking to people in my social circles all week and actually shoved at a friend who'd had a bad week just five minutes ago; jeather's post about feminism in romance novels, which provided a lot of food for thought and made me think about picking up a couple; ellieBOA's post about elephant polo, which I thought was a hilariously daft comedy of errors. Blue Jello Elf's Neanderthal thread made me burst out laughing in the office, turn to my coworker, and make him watch too. julen's mid-century menu cookbook delighted me enough to add the blog to my rss feed so I can see gross jello foodstuffs made every week. I could probably keep going for quite a while--there have been a whole lot of really amazing topics I'd never have heard about or seen otherwise this month, and there are a lot of FPPs which really delighted me I'm not mentioning. But really, there have been so many cool topics coming up that I feel like I barely have time to follow!
posted by sciatrix at 8:19 PM on March 26, 2015 [10 favorites]
Ooh, I missed that mid-century recipe thread! Totally bookmarking that fish-shaped shrimp jello mold one in case I ever need to go nuclear at a potluck...
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 9:47 PM on March 26, 2015
posted by Blue Jello Elf at 9:47 PM on March 26, 2015
I didn't tag mine because I didn't know the tag existed.
posted by Ideefixe at 9:55 PM on March 26, 2015
posted by Ideefixe at 9:55 PM on March 26, 2015
I also forgot to tag, but I'd like to thank everyone who came up with the idea -- it definitely spurred me to post things instead just thinking about it.
posted by rewil at 9:57 PM on March 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by rewil at 9:57 PM on March 26, 2015 [1 favorite]
Ideefixe and rewil - you can add tags to your own posts even after they've been posted. :)
March has been a super busy month for me and I haven't posted as much as I hoped, but I made one, and there's another that I need to run by the mods before pulling together. (It's kind of newsfiltery, but I was waiting for another article that I thought was going to come out and didn't, to round it all out, and missed the "breaking news" window for posting. I need to figure out if there's still a way to make a good post about it.) I've absolutely noticed the uptick in awesome posts, though! MeFi women and women-ish people, I am so proud of us all. :D
posted by daisyk at 2:15 AM on March 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
March has been a super busy month for me and I haven't posted as much as I hoped, but I made one, and there's another that I need to run by the mods before pulling together. (It's kind of newsfiltery, but I was waiting for another article that I thought was going to come out and didn't, to round it all out, and missed the "breaking news" window for posting. I need to figure out if there's still a way to make a good post about it.) I've absolutely noticed the uptick in awesome posts, though! MeFi women and women-ish people, I am so proud of us all. :D
posted by daisyk at 2:15 AM on March 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
I had a busy month and missed this boat - only posted once (hope I used the right tag). But I'm so glad it was a success!
posted by Mchelly at 3:53 AM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Mchelly at 3:53 AM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
I posted one. I started about another seven but they were all crap so I spared myself the agony of deletion. I love the idea of being at least inspired though, and that's what these months give me.
posted by h00py at 4:52 AM on March 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by h00py at 4:52 AM on March 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
only posted once
One FPP is infinitely more than none!
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:08 AM on March 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
One FPP is infinitely more than none!
posted by GenjiandProust at 5:08 AM on March 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
This sort of encouragement to engage is great, but I still feel like the atmosphere on the blue is angry and fighty - the idea of posting something to the kind of audience who nitpick and go for your throat on any slight error you might make is daunting and unappealing to the extreme.
Yeah, I confess that I was not super thrilled when my post about undergrads who invented a new non-toxic fire suppression system turned into a bunch of commenters saying "ugh, there is no sound or fire in space" without reading the links, and then a lot of "this will never ever work on a larger level so it is pointless." It made me regret sharing it.
I've seen better discussions of recent links that were posted here happening elsewhere online, and that is a bit sad. If your reaction to anything being posted on Metafilter is to immediately jump to "how can I call this terrible and stupid", then that pretty much sucks. Also, as it turns out, it is actively discouraging other people from making posts about things they think are cool, because they don't want to hold up a thing they find interesting and be told "the thing you are holding is garbage, and also who cares".
(I felt similar by proxy about the Fran Leibowitz interview link. She's a provocateur. Her persona is based on saying witty, outrageous things. The number of comments on MF that responded with "she's dumb, I wear what I want because she isn't the boss of me" or similar reactions was disheartening, and I didn't even write that post.)
I'm not saying that everyone should be total cheerleaders for every post, nor that criticisms of the content are inappropriate, but I really agree with winterhill that the atmosphere of response seems weirdly hostile sometimes.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 6:15 AM on March 27, 2015 [25 favorites]
Yeah, I confess that I was not super thrilled when my post about undergrads who invented a new non-toxic fire suppression system turned into a bunch of commenters saying "ugh, there is no sound or fire in space" without reading the links, and then a lot of "this will never ever work on a larger level so it is pointless." It made me regret sharing it.
I've seen better discussions of recent links that were posted here happening elsewhere online, and that is a bit sad. If your reaction to anything being posted on Metafilter is to immediately jump to "how can I call this terrible and stupid", then that pretty much sucks. Also, as it turns out, it is actively discouraging other people from making posts about things they think are cool, because they don't want to hold up a thing they find interesting and be told "the thing you are holding is garbage, and also who cares".
(I felt similar by proxy about the Fran Leibowitz interview link. She's a provocateur. Her persona is based on saying witty, outrageous things. The number of comments on MF that responded with "she's dumb, I wear what I want because she isn't the boss of me" or similar reactions was disheartening, and I didn't even write that post.)
I'm not saying that everyone should be total cheerleaders for every post, nor that criticisms of the content are inappropriate, but I really agree with winterhill that the atmosphere of response seems weirdly hostile sometimes.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 6:15 AM on March 27, 2015 [25 favorites]
You have to be able to just do the post with some interesting links and hope for the best. People aren't judging you personally if they want to nitpick and arsehole all over your post. Best just to step back for a bit after posting (easier said than done, I know).
At least on here people tend to arsehole all over the subject and not the OP, which is a good thing and one certainly encouraged by the mods.
posted by h00py at 6:24 AM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
At least on here people tend to arsehole all over the subject and not the OP, which is a good thing and one certainly encouraged by the mods.
posted by h00py at 6:24 AM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
You have to be able to just do the post with some interesting links and hope for the best.
I get that, and I wouldn't have said anything on my own, but I wanted to say in response to winterhill's viewpoint as one who has not posted that I completely agreed from the perspective of someone who has.
My feelings aren't hurt or anything, it is just kind of exasperating, if only in the age old RTFA sense. Disagreement is awesome, a-ok, superb. Responses that boil down to "this is pointless", not so much.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 6:49 AM on March 27, 2015 [9 favorites]
I get that, and I wouldn't have said anything on my own, but I wanted to say in response to winterhill's viewpoint as one who has not posted that I completely agreed from the perspective of someone who has.
My feelings aren't hurt or anything, it is just kind of exasperating, if only in the age old RTFA sense. Disagreement is awesome, a-ok, superb. Responses that boil down to "this is pointless", not so much.
posted by a fiendish thingy at 6:49 AM on March 27, 2015 [9 favorites]
Yeah, I'm with both of you, a fiendish thingy and winterhill--I've seen some potentially interesting discussions get totally derailed by people rushing to say "why should I care?", like the post about the biracial Miss Japan. It could have been a really interesting conversation about, say, the experience of being biracial in Japan or Japanese culture but it really got bogged down in iterations of "well beauty queen contests are sexist and boring so who cares?" Yeah, they are sexist, but that doesn't mean that a substantial achievement on race grounds isn't worth celebrating or talking about on its own terms.
I think it really puts people off posting, especially if they're new to it and feeling anxious and nervous and thinking "well, this is probably only interesting to me, no one else is going to care about it." I have gotten a lot of positive feedback from the posts I've made this March, but like I said, my very first post did not feel well received to me and even one dismissive comment ("minor mistake, so now I don't care") that probably felt to the person who made it like a funny, offhand joke really put me off making a new one.
Something I have found helpful in other spaces for encouraging participation has been promising friends putting stuff out there to be "in the audience" when they release something into the wild. Like, say, I have a post I am nervous about and worrying that people will either rush to say "why are you talking about this, this is boring" or be angry about what I have to say. Sometimes when I'm talking about that to my friend, she will say "Okay, but I think this is cool and an interesting motif to add to the conversation. If you post it, I promise to be in the comments and back you up if someone says something completely out of line, or if people get dismissive without listening." What that adds, for people like me who are often worried about the reception my writing will get, is a promise that a) someone, just glancing at the work ahead of time, genuinely thinks that it's worth sharing the thing, b) sometimes advice on how to make the work stronger, and c) a promise that at least one person in the audience has got my back if I step up on stage. And of course, I offer the same thing back.
Of course, that doesn't work for everyone and it really requires a support network ahead of time, and I have no idea how a network like that might function on MetaFilter. This thread is here for this month, but I don't know that it is or should be a permanent resource. And I don't know if anyone in here would find something like that helpful. But if anyone wants that kind of feedback from someone--especially anyone who is new to posting--my inbox is really and truly always open.
posted by sciatrix at 7:23 AM on March 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
I think it really puts people off posting, especially if they're new to it and feeling anxious and nervous and thinking "well, this is probably only interesting to me, no one else is going to care about it." I have gotten a lot of positive feedback from the posts I've made this March, but like I said, my very first post did not feel well received to me and even one dismissive comment ("minor mistake, so now I don't care") that probably felt to the person who made it like a funny, offhand joke really put me off making a new one.
Something I have found helpful in other spaces for encouraging participation has been promising friends putting stuff out there to be "in the audience" when they release something into the wild. Like, say, I have a post I am nervous about and worrying that people will either rush to say "why are you talking about this, this is boring" or be angry about what I have to say. Sometimes when I'm talking about that to my friend, she will say "Okay, but I think this is cool and an interesting motif to add to the conversation. If you post it, I promise to be in the comments and back you up if someone says something completely out of line, or if people get dismissive without listening." What that adds, for people like me who are often worried about the reception my writing will get, is a promise that a) someone, just glancing at the work ahead of time, genuinely thinks that it's worth sharing the thing, b) sometimes advice on how to make the work stronger, and c) a promise that at least one person in the audience has got my back if I step up on stage. And of course, I offer the same thing back.
Of course, that doesn't work for everyone and it really requires a support network ahead of time, and I have no idea how a network like that might function on MetaFilter. This thread is here for this month, but I don't know that it is or should be a permanent resource. And I don't know if anyone in here would find something like that helpful. But if anyone wants that kind of feedback from someone--especially anyone who is new to posting--my inbox is really and truly always open.
posted by sciatrix at 7:23 AM on March 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
I am interested in using the data dump to analyse some of the stats about this kind of thing. Unfortunately, although I took some stats and stata courses in college I wouldn't know where to start in getting the data into a more easily usable format and manipulating it. Has anyone done a mefi specific tutorial on manipulating the data dump or can someone reccomend excel/stata tutorials that would be relevant?
posted by Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory at 7:47 AM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by Another Fine Product From The Nonsense Factory at 7:47 AM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
> If your reaction to anything being posted on Metafilter is to immediately jump to "how can I call this terrible and stupid", then that pretty much sucks. Also, as it turns out, it is actively discouraging other people from making posts about things they think are cool, because they don't want to hold up a thing they find interesting and be told "the thing you are holding is garbage, and also who cares".
Yup, I left the site for a while because of this and I don't post any more. There's really no solution (short of the kind of aggressive moderation that would turn the place into something completely different, where I probably wouldn't want to be); a certain percentage of people, especially the nerd/intellectual types who are attracted to MetaFilter, just seem to be hardwired to the "the thing you are holding is garbage, and also who cares" approach. It's very depressing, but like so much in life, we just have to live with it and make do.
posted by languagehat at 7:50 AM on March 27, 2015 [19 favorites]
Yup, I left the site for a while because of this and I don't post any more. There's really no solution (short of the kind of aggressive moderation that would turn the place into something completely different, where I probably wouldn't want to be); a certain percentage of people, especially the nerd/intellectual types who are attracted to MetaFilter, just seem to be hardwired to the "the thing you are holding is garbage, and also who cares" approach. It's very depressing, but like so much in life, we just have to live with it and make do.
posted by languagehat at 7:50 AM on March 27, 2015 [19 favorites]
(I felt similar by proxy about the Fran Leibowitz interview link. She's a provocateur. Her persona is based on saying witty, outrageous things. The number of comments on MF that responded with "she's dumb, I wear what I want because she isn't the boss of me" or similar reactions was disheartening, and I didn't even write that post.)
I saw that too. I've been here a while and it's not surprising to see the number of reflexive "feh" comments. I stick around in hopes that people will be able to add constructively to the conversation; in hopes of interesting personal stories; in hopes that people who have thought about various subjects will drop some knowledge, so I learn something. I'm less nervous about posting on the blue than I used to be because I have come to believe that it's important to make spaces for good conversations to happen, even if a large number of the comments are noise. I post because I refuse to give up on the chance to learn something.
posted by MonkeyToes at 7:57 AM on March 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
I saw that too. I've been here a while and it's not surprising to see the number of reflexive "feh" comments. I stick around in hopes that people will be able to add constructively to the conversation; in hopes of interesting personal stories; in hopes that people who have thought about various subjects will drop some knowledge, so I learn something. I'm less nervous about posting on the blue than I used to be because I have come to believe that it's important to make spaces for good conversations to happen, even if a large number of the comments are noise. I post because I refuse to give up on the chance to learn something.
posted by MonkeyToes at 7:57 AM on March 27, 2015 [4 favorites]
Sometimes I think it would be nice if the OP could see the amount of clicks their post gets, or somehow gauge its reach among the userbase, just to be reminded that those who comment (and those who comment negatively) do not represent the post's impact.
I think I saw most of these posts, favorited quite a few, but I'm not sure if I commented in many, if any of them.
posted by Think_Long at 8:11 AM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
I think I saw most of these posts, favorited quite a few, but I'm not sure if I commented in many, if any of them.
posted by Think_Long at 8:11 AM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
the idea of posting something to the kind of audience who nitpick and go for your throat on any slight error you might make is daunting and unappealing to the extreme
There's really no solution
I've been working on ways to dissuade people from commenting, and have had some success. Perhaps I should do a little write-up on it.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:21 AM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
There's really no solution
I've been working on ways to dissuade people from commenting, and have had some success. Perhaps I should do a little write-up on it.
posted by the man of twists and turns at 8:21 AM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
I don't mind it when people point out I've made mistakes - I'd rather be told when I'm not right or have munged something up. I've been lucky this month that when I've made a mistake in FPP* or said something that needed clarification, that it was done in an informative, useful, courteous way in the comments. Scorch-the-earth corrections would have bummed me out, too, and made me leary of posting again. But - as an example - this correction to one of my posts was really nicely done - clarify the truth, address the overall topic, and extend the conversation.
The correction could easily have been harsher because I totally overedited and elided stuff I shouldn't have. I was kicking myself, but it was nice that a bunch of folks didn't join me in kicking myself.
*This month, I've been using my experience posting a variety of FPPs to see what works for me. And so as pure data, the mistakes/responses have been really useful for teaching me how not to FPP in the future.
posted by julen at 8:34 AM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
The correction could easily have been harsher because I totally overedited and elided stuff I shouldn't have. I was kicking myself, but it was nice that a bunch of folks didn't join me in kicking myself.
*This month, I've been using my experience posting a variety of FPPs to see what works for me. And so as pure data, the mistakes/responses have been really useful for teaching me how not to FPP in the future.
posted by julen at 8:34 AM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
I just want to say real quick that while we can't really do anything about a general inclination to be nitpicky or grumpy, if it's someone doing it in an exceptional or notable way (especially early thread dismissiveness or "this sux" or otherwise conspicuous non-engagement with the post in favor of just hearing themselves talk about how they don't care or aren't interested) that is totally an okay thing to flag and may well be something we'll actively nix if we see it in a reasonable amount of time.
Mefites can be skeptical and analytical people in what is often a good way but is also sometimes just outright dingusry, and we kind of do want to know about the dingus side of things when it's happening.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:37 AM on March 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
Mefites can be skeptical and analytical people in what is often a good way but is also sometimes just outright dingusry, and we kind of do want to know about the dingus side of things when it's happening.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:37 AM on March 27, 2015 [6 favorites]
I have often found myself wishing for a "didn't read the article" flag for knee-jerk comments.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 8:39 AM on March 27, 2015 [32 favorites]
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 8:39 AM on March 27, 2015 [32 favorites]
> I have often found myself wishing for a "didn't read the article" flag for knee-jerk comments.
I sometimes wish for that too, but it's also nice (for certain definitions of...) to be able to shame someone who clearly didn't RTFA by quoting directly from it to refute the dumb thing they just said. I am likely a bad person for liking that option.
posted by rtha at 8:47 AM on March 27, 2015 [19 favorites]
I sometimes wish for that too, but it's also nice (for certain definitions of...) to be able to shame someone who clearly didn't RTFA by quoting directly from it to refute the dumb thing they just said. I am likely a bad person for liking that option.
posted by rtha at 8:47 AM on March 27, 2015 [19 favorites]
sciatrix, I really wanted to thank you (and had meant to MeMail you, but I'm glad to have the opportunity to do it publicly!) for your comment on my WomensMarch post pushing back against the "Eh, this is pointless"-ish comments. It made me feel much better, so: Thanks!
posted by jaguar at 9:06 AM on March 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by jaguar at 9:06 AM on March 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
I made a personal pledge this month to deliberately not make negative comments early on in threads with which I might have an issue (unless I really could not bear it), and, I think, I mostly succeeded. I think there is a place to say "this is not awesome; it is horrible" about some aspect of an FPP or a comment, but that place is usually much further down the thread than it often shows up.
There are a lot of performers, TV shows, and music, for example, which I find dumb, uninspired, and/or offensive, but going into a thread and saying "well, I hate this actor/show/band" is a jerk move. Going into the thread and saying "this actor has made pretty questionable statements about X" is a slightly different matter, but can still be overdone.
So one thing I would like to see less of on this site is knee-jerk refutation of the point of the FPP. Yes, sometimes the links in FPPs are really wrongheaded or biased or fraudulent or whatever, but that challenge carries a lot more weight if every thread doesn't have a couple of people arguing (often, as pointed out by rtha above) that it's not worth discussing. Especially, since any comment is part, positive or negative, of the discussion, often the only sensible response to "this is dumb, no one should discuss it!" is "and yet. here you are."
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:25 AM on March 27, 2015 [9 favorites]
There are a lot of performers, TV shows, and music, for example, which I find dumb, uninspired, and/or offensive, but going into a thread and saying "well, I hate this actor/show/band" is a jerk move. Going into the thread and saying "this actor has made pretty questionable statements about X" is a slightly different matter, but can still be overdone.
So one thing I would like to see less of on this site is knee-jerk refutation of the point of the FPP. Yes, sometimes the links in FPPs are really wrongheaded or biased or fraudulent or whatever, but that challenge carries a lot more weight if every thread doesn't have a couple of people arguing (often, as pointed out by rtha above) that it's not worth discussing. Especially, since any comment is part, positive or negative, of the discussion, often the only sensible response to "this is dumb, no one should discuss it!" is "and yet. here you are."
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:25 AM on March 27, 2015 [9 favorites]
By the way, what rtha pointed out above was that people often do it without RTFA. In case you were vexed by suspense.
Sheesh, my next personal pledge will be proofread.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:43 AM on March 27, 2015
Sheesh, my next personal pledge will be proofread.
posted by GenjiandProust at 9:43 AM on March 27, 2015
Going into the thread and saying "this actor has made pretty questionable statements about X" is a slightly different matter, but can still be overdone.
I have rarely seen a statement of this type not ruin a thread.
posted by Think_Long at 9:46 AM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have rarely seen a statement of this type not ruin a thread.
posted by Think_Long at 9:46 AM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
I have rarely seen a statement of this type not ruin a thread.
Sure, but it's not like it isn't on topic, at least more than "I hate this actor." I mean, I don't really have a problem with someone, say, presented with a mammoth FPP admiringly recounting the career of Mel Gibson, to comment, preferably with some nice documenting links, that Mr. Gibson has a bit of a history.
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:05 AM on March 27, 2015
Sure, but it's not like it isn't on topic, at least more than "I hate this actor." I mean, I don't really have a problem with someone, say, presented with a mammoth FPP admiringly recounting the career of Mel Gibson, to comment, preferably with some nice documenting links, that Mr. Gibson has a bit of a history.
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:05 AM on March 27, 2015
Sorry, that is a bit of a derail.
Have I mentioned recently how much I am enjoying WomensMarch? 'Cause I am!
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:07 AM on March 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
Have I mentioned recently how much I am enjoying WomensMarch? 'Cause I am!
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:07 AM on March 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
I made a personal pledge this month to deliberately not make negative comments early on in threads with which I might have an issue (unless I really could not bear it), and, I think, I mostly succeeded.
I tried to do this too but failed miserably in sciatrix's informative and hilarious post about human dick spines. In my defense HOLYSHITNOGETITAWAY. Also, I may have been overworked. And/or drunk.
(In all seriousness, things seemed pretty boring and grouchy around here during January and February. Then March hit and blammo, so many amazing posts drowning out the blahs. Hooray for WomensMarch!)
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 10:21 AM on March 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
I tried to do this too but failed miserably in sciatrix's informative and hilarious post about human dick spines. In my defense HOLYSHITNOGETITAWAY. Also, I may have been overworked. And/or drunk.
(In all seriousness, things seemed pretty boring and grouchy around here during January and February. Then March hit and blammo, so many amazing posts drowning out the blahs. Hooray for WomensMarch!)
posted by Orange Dinosaur Slide at 10:21 AM on March 27, 2015 [3 favorites]
sciatrix's informative and hilarious post about human dick spines
HOW. DID. I. MISS. THIS!!!!!!!!!!!?
!
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:26 AM on March 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
HOW. DID. I. MISS. THIS!!!!!!!!!!!?
!
posted by GenjiandProust at 10:26 AM on March 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
To be totally fair, I.... may have been anticipating reactions along that line. Ahem.
posted by sciatrix at 10:32 AM on March 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by sciatrix at 10:32 AM on March 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
Yeah, I'm with both of you, a fiendish thingy and winterhill--I've seen some potentially interesting discussions get totally derailed by people rushing to say "why should I care?", like the post about the biracial Miss Japan.
Lousy #WomenSmarch Commenters!
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:53 AM on March 27, 2015
Lousy #WomenSmarch Commenters!
posted by the man of twists and turns at 10:53 AM on March 27, 2015
I'm pretty sure that post was the very best thing to happen in the entire month. Although something could come along to defeat it in these final days. But I cannot imagine what.
posted by Stacey at 10:55 AM on March 27, 2015
posted by Stacey at 10:55 AM on March 27, 2015
I am also hesitant to post FPPs because of the frequently nitpicky or "this thing sucks" type of reactions, but thank you for this updated Women's March thread, because it reminded me to get over that hesitance and post. So hopefully there won't be too much "your favorite band sucks" in my FPP, but if there is, oh well.
posted by yasaman at 11:31 AM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by yasaman at 11:31 AM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
I tried really hard to come up with some kind of joke post for which the tag could plausibly be read as Women Smarch, since I see it that way every damn time.
Has not been a post-idea-generating month for me, but I've been throwing support onto the Blue when I've got the bandwidth. Looking forward to the last few days!
posted by tchemgrrl at 11:34 AM on March 27, 2015
Has not been a post-idea-generating month for me, but I've been throwing support onto the Blue when I've got the bandwidth. Looking forward to the last few days!
posted by tchemgrrl at 11:34 AM on March 27, 2015
There have been so many good posts that my sense of time on MeFi has been a little warped, like it's hard to believe that the penis spines were less than a month ago.
I have often found myself wishing for a "didn't read the article" flag for knee-jerk comments.
I still remember with shame a comment I made without reading the article. Deleting that comment would have been a kindness.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:20 PM on March 27, 2015
I have often found myself wishing for a "didn't read the article" flag for knee-jerk comments.
I still remember with shame a comment I made without reading the article. Deleting that comment would have been a kindness.
posted by a snickering nuthatch at 12:20 PM on March 27, 2015
penis spine
Did we happen to mention in that thread that penis and spine are anagrams of each other?
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:01 PM on March 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
Did we happen to mention in that thread that penis and spine are anagrams of each other?
posted by Celsius1414 at 2:01 PM on March 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
hopefully there won't be too much "your favorite band sucks" in my FPP
Your Stromae post is going a whole lot better than the Max Martin post, which is predictably (and tiresomely) peppered with "pop music sucks" comments.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 2:08 PM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
Your Stromae post is going a whole lot better than the Max Martin post, which is predictably (and tiresomely) peppered with "pop music sucks" comments.
posted by We had a deal, Kyle at 2:08 PM on March 27, 2015 [1 favorite]
peppered with "pop music sucks" comments.
There are some excellent comments in between those, though!
I thought that Max Martin article (+ list) was really fun and compelling (which is why I posted it). I'm going to continue to post articles about pop music (and sports, another threadshit target) because I really like pop music and sports and I think there is great, fpp-worthy writing out there about both subjects. Once the post drops down a bit on the front page and the drive by threadshitters are gone, the good discussion will continue. It usually does. There are other people on this site that are genuinely interested in engaging with the material and making thoughtful comments, positive or negative, about pop music and sports. What I mean is, don't let the lousy comments get you down! The mods are reliably good about responding to that stuff and this community has a lot of people with smart things to say.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 2:37 PM on March 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
There are some excellent comments in between those, though!
I thought that Max Martin article (+ list) was really fun and compelling (which is why I posted it). I'm going to continue to post articles about pop music (and sports, another threadshit target) because I really like pop music and sports and I think there is great, fpp-worthy writing out there about both subjects. Once the post drops down a bit on the front page and the drive by threadshitters are gone, the good discussion will continue. It usually does. There are other people on this site that are genuinely interested in engaging with the material and making thoughtful comments, positive or negative, about pop music and sports. What I mean is, don't let the lousy comments get you down! The mods are reliably good about responding to that stuff and this community has a lot of people with smart things to say.
posted by everybody had matching towels at 2:37 PM on March 27, 2015 [5 favorites]
a certain percentage of people, especially the nerd/intellectual types who are attracted to MetaFilter, just seem to be hardwired to the "the thing you are holding is garbage, and also who cares" approach.
I'm inclined to think the superficial and dismissive comments are the result of the habit-forming "it sucks" negativity so evident in Twitter and other similar places, including Facebook. I don't spend much time on Twitter because of the abundance of disparaging one-liners that seem to be just natural to the site and I've chopped what I look at through Facebook to smithereens for the same reasons. It isn't the lavish profanity that's annoying, it's the curt dismissive attitude - disrespect, in a nutshell. It used to be called bad manners.
This month has been a delight. I thank all those who participated for some of the most fascinating material I've ever encountered and hope you feel inspired to continue.
posted by aryma at 4:24 PM on March 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm inclined to think the superficial and dismissive comments are the result of the habit-forming "it sucks" negativity so evident in Twitter and other similar places, including Facebook. I don't spend much time on Twitter because of the abundance of disparaging one-liners that seem to be just natural to the site and I've chopped what I look at through Facebook to smithereens for the same reasons. It isn't the lavish profanity that's annoying, it's the curt dismissive attitude - disrespect, in a nutshell. It used to be called bad manners.
This month has been a delight. I thank all those who participated for some of the most fascinating material I've ever encountered and hope you feel inspired to continue.
posted by aryma at 4:24 PM on March 27, 2015 [2 favorites]
In re: snark, subtype "your favorite music sucks," I thought the two recent Hozier threads were an interesting game of compare and contrast for tone. More snarky, way less snarky.
I don't think a post author has a huge amount of control over threadshitting, but there are still some things I see in there that made the conversational direction seem like a natural flow from the post itself, that is making me make some mental notes for my next post.
posted by tchemgrrl at 4:34 PM on March 27, 2015
I don't think a post author has a huge amount of control over threadshitting, but there are still some things I see in there that made the conversational direction seem like a natural flow from the post itself, that is making me make some mental notes for my next post.
posted by tchemgrrl at 4:34 PM on March 27, 2015
a certain percentage of people, especially the nerd/intellectual types who are attracted to MetaFilter, just seem to be hardwired to the "the thing you are holding is garbage, and also who cares" approach.
I noticed this tendency in myself a while back, and a tendency to focus on things I could be angry about, and so I've embarked on a weekly project to talk about something I really like and why I like is as part of trying to rebalance myself, and hopefully bring a different energy to the other things I engage with. I like to think it's helping, and I'd encourage other people to do the same thing.
posted by Deoridhe at 4:44 PM on March 27, 2015 [9 favorites]
I noticed this tendency in myself a while back, and a tendency to focus on things I could be angry about, and so I've embarked on a weekly project to talk about something I really like and why I like is as part of trying to rebalance myself, and hopefully bring a different energy to the other things I engage with. I like to think it's helping, and I'd encourage other people to do the same thing.
posted by Deoridhe at 4:44 PM on March 27, 2015 [9 favorites]
I think it's a bit like good service. People are more likely to quietly think something is good, but loudly complain. Many great posts probably have lots of people who think they're great but don't say anything (hello lovely lurkers!) whereas the people who think it's bad for some reason will step up to make that heard. So I try to make a point of commenting on posts I like in a "thanks for the post" way even if I don't have anything to add to the actual discussion. I think it's a good habit and something I should try to do more often. Basically, we don't have any way of knowing the ratio of approving nods to "meh" comments, so while the negative comments might be disheartening we should bear in mind there could still be lots of satisfied but silent customers.
posted by billiebee at 6:37 PM on March 27, 2015 [12 favorites]
posted by billiebee at 6:37 PM on March 27, 2015 [12 favorites]
I had a correction made on one of my posts and it was kind, so thank you kind commenters.
Also I am frequently a quiet satisfied customer, especially now that the add-to-activity option exists, so I'm going to make an effort to make a nice comment more often.
posted by immlass at 1:24 PM on March 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
Also I am frequently a quiet satisfied customer, especially now that the add-to-activity option exists, so I'm going to make an effort to make a nice comment more often.
posted by immlass at 1:24 PM on March 28, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've been a member here for 13 odd years, it's the same time I spent at school.
I've only had one post deleted ever. Jess did it.
I've been sharing my interaction here recently with my beautiful wife, we married at the end of last year.
She reminds me I am male, in someways she reinforces that, but not just as a dick.
This community is better for the changes, I am proud to be a member here.
This was going to be it's own post.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 4:15 PM on March 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
I've only had one post deleted ever. Jess did it.
I've been sharing my interaction here recently with my beautiful wife, we married at the end of last year.
She reminds me I am male, in someways she reinforces that, but not just as a dick.
This community is better for the changes, I am proud to be a member here.
This was going to be it's own post.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 4:15 PM on March 28, 2015 [2 favorites]
I finally got around to posting a thing. I wanted to post about something, but found it had been posted about before; so I did some research and posted about what came after the thing I'd wanted to post about.
Now I'm just hoping it'll stay up and not be regarded as a double.
posted by Too-Ticky at 8:19 AM on March 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
Now I'm just hoping it'll stay up and not be regarded as a double.
posted by Too-Ticky at 8:19 AM on March 29, 2015 [4 favorites]
Correlation doesn't equal causation, but I get the sense this has actually been one of the least fighty months in a while, all things considered. It's a baseless instinct, but my point is that not posting about a topic out of the fear that people will react negatively is effectively the same as being shut up. So, you may as well post about it. In this day and age, the attention your post gets on MetaFilter is likely not going to be the only exposure and discussion that post will receive anyway.
Or is all the discussion of negativity some kind of segue into the upcoming April Showers Initiative to Reduce Threadshitting?
posted by Johann Georg Faust at 2:03 PM on March 29, 2015
Or is all the discussion of negativity some kind of segue into the upcoming April Showers Initiative to Reduce Threadshitting?
posted by Johann Georg Faust at 2:03 PM on March 29, 2015
I just made my very first Metafilter post! I missed last July, so I'm glad I made it this month! I was inspired by all the wonderful and informative posts on all different subjects I read. I use favorites as bookmarks and was going crazy favoriting things! Anyway, I decided that I should contribute, too.
I am so grateful for WomensMarch (and for JulyByWomen before it). So many good posts and so many people contributing. And I appreciate the civility of my fellow posters and commenters - it made it easier for me to decide to post, knowing that I wasn't facing a wall of Judgy Judgersons.
A+ will post again
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 5:20 PM on March 29, 2015 [12 favorites]
I am so grateful for WomensMarch (and for JulyByWomen before it). So many good posts and so many people contributing. And I appreciate the civility of my fellow posters and commenters - it made it easier for me to decide to post, knowing that I wasn't facing a wall of Judgy Judgersons.
A+ will post again
posted by Rosie M. Banks at 5:20 PM on March 29, 2015 [12 favorites]
Correlation doesn't equal causation, but I get the sense this has actually been one of the least fighty months in a while, all things considered.
I've been noticing this and thinking about it a lot too. I wonder if part of it is also the increased volume and breadth of subject matter that resulted from this effort. When there are lots of new posts and links to read and they are not about the same subjects over and over, people's time is more likely spent reading the new threads rather than digging down 100-200 comments into an old one. And it's those extended back-and-forths where things tend to get really fighty IMO. I honestly think some of our worst fighty-ness happens because people are bored, and if they have something new to read they do that instead.
posted by misskaz at 8:32 AM on March 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
I've been noticing this and thinking about it a lot too. I wonder if part of it is also the increased volume and breadth of subject matter that resulted from this effort. When there are lots of new posts and links to read and they are not about the same subjects over and over, people's time is more likely spent reading the new threads rather than digging down 100-200 comments into an old one. And it's those extended back-and-forths where things tend to get really fighty IMO. I honestly think some of our worst fighty-ness happens because people are bored, and if they have something new to read they do that instead.
posted by misskaz at 8:32 AM on March 30, 2015 [3 favorites]
I'm pretty sure it's that a lot of the particularly bad users have been banned and the ones that are still here know they're on a short leash. The breadth of content just means that there's a lot more threads to enjoy the lack of shittiness in.
posted by NoraReed at 9:05 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
posted by NoraReed at 9:05 AM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I just posted mine! I was worried I wouldn't be able to do one in March because damn, this month, but I did. I have been LOVING the diverse, fascinating posts this month. Hooray for #WomensMarch!
posted by mynameisluka at 12:08 PM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
posted by mynameisluka at 12:08 PM on March 30, 2015 [5 favorites]
I just posted mine!
I just opened a tab to read it, while thinking "Ooooh, this looks interesting!"
posted by MonkeyToes at 12:58 PM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I just opened a tab to read it, while thinking "Ooooh, this looks interesting!"
posted by MonkeyToes at 12:58 PM on March 30, 2015 [2 favorites]
I'm not going to make it, not even under the wire. Sorry, but I think the month limped along okay without me, with merely 318 posts and a day to go.
posted by gingerest at 11:15 PM on March 30, 2015
posted by gingerest at 11:15 PM on March 30, 2015
Just a guy here. Justed wanted to say that this month has been amazing - I'm proud to say I recently joined this community, and seeing all of these excellent posts by women this month is one of the reasons why.
I've learned a lot of great stuff and read and/or participated some great discussions.
All hail WomensMarch!
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:35 PM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
I've learned a lot of great stuff and read and/or participated some great discussions.
All hail WomensMarch!
posted by mandolin conspiracy at 5:35 PM on March 31, 2015 [1 favorite]
🎉
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 10:36 PM on March 31, 2015 [8 favorites]
posted by joseph conrad is fully awesome at 10:36 PM on March 31, 2015 [8 favorites]
I dunno, I posted...four, I think? and the discussion was pretty reasonable. So yay.
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:22 PM on April 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by jenfullmoon at 1:22 PM on April 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Loved this month. Thanks all who contributed.
posted by sallybrown at 8:23 PM on April 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
posted by sallybrown at 8:23 PM on April 1, 2015 [1 favorite]
Yaaaay! Gratz to Lexica for making a post every day! And good effort to joseph conrad is fully awesome, who came pretty close!
posted by halifix at 3:01 PM on April 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
posted by halifix at 3:01 PM on April 2, 2015 [4 favorites]
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posted by a manly man person who is male and masculine at 4:54 PM on March 26, 2015 [13 favorites]