Attachment to MetaFilter.

July 27, 2002 3:50 PM

Do you bristle when someone says it’s only a web site? When things are slow, do you find yourself clicking on threads that don’t remotely interest you? And then become shockingly enthralled? Do you enjoy reading the get-together threads on MeTa even though you’re nowhere near the locations being discussed? Have you entirely stopped reading The Onion and Salon just because linking to them here is frowned upon? Are you considering adopting a newbie?

If so, you are probably over-attached to MetaFilter. [More inside].
posted by MiguelCardoso to MetaFilter-related at 3:50 PM (146 comments total)

Is your bookmark list full of unintelligible thread numbers you fooled yourself, in your indecent haste, into thinking you’d label later? Do certain posters, not necessarily those you like, make unexpected appearances in your dreams? And, rather than do silly things, actually talk sense? Do your friends interrupt you when you’re sharing some news or opinion and yawningly go “Yeah, yeah, let me guess, you read it on MetaFilter?” When you order the front page according to “recent comments” is the total always one miserable digit? Does your heart lift when you see the word “MetaTalk” on a thread, feeling it’s some kind of bonus? In fact, do you secretly leave MeTa to read last, according to the principle of “first eat your greens, then go on to the ice cream”? Do you still remember when, in your early innocence, you laughed mockingly at the “More addictive than crack” tagline? Would you join if there was a Metaholics Anonymous?

Yup. All these are gentle, prodding signs you may well be over-attached to MetaFilter. Please share your own, won't you?
posted by MiguelCardoso at 3:50 PM on July 27, 2002

Also do you find yourself actually growing to love all them annoying little boxes? ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 3:52 PM on July 27, 2002

And are you seriously considering calling your autobiography It Worked On Preview?
posted by MiguelCardoso at 3:55 PM on July 27, 2002

i guess i'm an anti-mefite 'cause i answered no to all of the above... but i sure could apply it to other things i waste time on so you won't find me passing judgement on anyone attending future M.A. meetings ;-)

miguel are you copy-pasting ' & "s again...? oh hehe yah on preview, i suppose i am getting used to them :-D
posted by t r a c y at 4:00 PM on July 27, 2002

Do you post incessantly to MetaTalk because you think there is either cachet or novelty in seeing one's name on the grey page, even though it's a privilege over 14,000 people can abuse at any time? Are you blissfully unaware of the absolute rage that's inspired by the relentless banality of your ceaseless posting?
posted by anildash at 4:00 PM on July 27, 2002

absolute rage, due to posts on what actually is only a website? wow, i'm feeling ever so well adjusted. thanks, i needed that...!
posted by t r a c y at 4:20 PM on July 27, 2002

not rage for me, anil. more like pity. it *is* just a website. i drop by if i'm bored or need a little break, but i don't understand people whose lives revolve around metafilter.
posted by centrs at 4:20 PM on July 27, 2002

Usually I have a speech prepared. Today I'm tired.

What anildash said.
Twice.
posted by BlueTrain at 4:21 PM on July 27, 2002

stick to the #006699, Miguel...
posted by machaus at 4:36 PM on July 27, 2002

My favourite thing about mefi is sitting back and watching g'rups act all rententive, bitchy and superior. It's amusing and a good lesson in how not to be. Not to mention a really good reminder on weekends that a person should be doing other things.

*connection closed*
posted by zarah at 4:39 PM on July 27, 2002

Kandarians.. and Grups???? Jeez, zarah... I think I'm startin to fall in love with your twisted lil cerebellum...
posted by Perigee at 4:45 PM on July 27, 2002

...
posted by geoff. at 4:57 PM on July 27, 2002

Ha!
posted by adampsyche at 5:26 PM on July 27, 2002

Also: "Do you spend time wondering if MiguelCardoso has MEFI tattooed on his left knuckles/hand and META tattooed on his right knuckles?"
posted by gluechunk at 6:02 PM on July 27, 2002

actually, i suppose it would be MEFI on the right hand and META on the left hand.
posted by gluechunk at 6:04 PM on July 27, 2002

.
posted by ook at 6:17 PM on July 27, 2002

anil: are you blissfully unaware of the absolute disdain that's inspired by the relentless vapidity of your elitist bitching?

posted by quonsar at 6:26 PM on July 27, 2002

MetaTalk is a discussion area for topics specific to MetaFilter itself, ranging from bug reports to feature requests to questions of content, the posts are sorted by date, and tagged by category.

How does this discussion fit into that?
posted by anapestic at 6:39 PM on July 27, 2002

rage
posted by kebab at 7:31 PM on July 27, 2002

rage
posted by kebab at 7:36 PM on July 27, 2002

...
posted by geoff. at 4:57 PM PST on July 27

And for those of you who'd prefer to have a wisecracking robot spell it out for you:

...
posted by toddshot at 7:54 PM on July 27, 2002

Do you bristle when someone says it?s only a web site?

Not at all. There's a sort of web stockholm syndrome that comes about in users when they've invested a lot of time and effort into web communities. Even after some initial abuse they're all about being part of the group.

If you think ex-mefites are bad, you should see the 'goodbye fuckers' messages from other internet communities. You'd be surprised how attached people get to communities that mefites would find trivial and vice versa. Its Good ™ to have perspective.

I replied to rcade on this subject not too long ago.
posted by skallas at 8:07 PM on July 27, 2002

Crap. Here's the real link.
posted by skallas at 8:08 PM on July 27, 2002

btw that ? was the TM symbol in preview, Matt.
posted by skallas at 8:10 PM on July 27, 2002

Miguel, stop making sentences. This post is so over the top, so patently inflammatory that it's either utterly sadistic trollery or reveals you as the very definition of either benighted or botuse. Look at what has followed. So what good is this polarization, who could it possibly serve? This is so unecessary. Think of the kitties, the children, us all. Write for yourself your thesis in twenty five words or less, write a synopsis--will it really turn out to be worth posting, worth the thread this will turn into? Spare us the details.

On review--there's skallas tangentially spinning straw into gold. < margesimpson> Hmm... < /margesimpson>
posted by y2karl at 8:24 PM on July 27, 2002

ok, obtuse as was I in not checking spelling.
posted by y2karl at 8:28 PM on July 27, 2002

And since this is so pointless, and bound for deletion, I should hope--hey everybody, it's my birthday! *airkiss* to you all.
posted by y2karl at 8:31 PM on July 27, 2002

ok, obtuse as was I in not checking spelling.

I just wanna see this in italics to see if I can make it any easier on me that way. Move along.

Happy birthday, y2karl.
posted by WolfDaddy at 8:39 PM on July 27, 2002

happy birthday, y2karl.

And I like botuse--it has a nice ring to it.
posted by ashbury at 8:46 PM on July 27, 2002

No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No. No.
posted by crunchland at 8:52 PM on July 27, 2002

shutup shutup shutup shutup shutup shutup shutup shutup shutup shutup shutup shutup shutup shutup.
posted by mcsweetie at 9:15 PM on July 27, 2002

i think it's really funny that mig is talking about being too attached to mefi.

that's like sid vicious talking about self-destruction.

happy b-day y2karl
posted by jcterminal at 9:23 PM on July 27, 2002

i don't see anything insulting about being seen as having an attachment to a community you spend a lot of time in, so if miguel was trolling it flew right over my 61 inches. doh. which led to my being rather startled by anildash's pointed response :-\

but i do get the feeling if someone else had posted it you'd all be happily contributing an anecdote about your mefi habits, which would have been kinda fun. on the other hand there isn't really an appropriate place for a thread like that around here.

happy bday y2karl...!
posted by t r a c y at 9:38 PM on July 27, 2002

Oh please! I've been lurking on mefi since i was 15 years old and if I've learned anything it's that there's nothing that brings more joy to most of you than to have a reason to jump down someone's throat. Secretly you're all thrilled that Miguel posted something questionable, go on admit it. This whole place is all about polarization and disagreement, it would die without it! (holy crap, that's great how spell check wants to change mefi to mafia)

Perigee, haha! t r a c y has been raising me really well, with all the appropriate twistedness, but says that no one over the age of 17 is allowed to fall in love with any part of me ;)
posted by zarah at 10:01 PM on July 27, 2002

zarah, you're 17?

::smiles::

So how you doing?
posted by BlueTrain at 10:09 PM on July 27, 2002

Now, BlueTrain - please keep the purpose of MetaTalk in mind, after all. ;)

Happy Birthday, y2karl
posted by yhbc at 10:27 PM on July 27, 2002

Happy Birthday, Big Daddy y2Karl!!

Plus Miguel also has 9622 tattooed in gothic lettering across his chest. It's a beautiful thing.
posted by jonmc at 10:43 PM on July 27, 2002

but i do get the feeling if someone else had posted it you'd all be happily contributing an anecdote about your mefi habits, which would have been kinda fun

I agree completely. Whatever complaints there are about Miguel's posts, there's no excuse for the Lord of the Flies antics that go on in these threads.
posted by timeistight at 10:47 PM on July 27, 2002

and Happy Birthday y2karl! Many, many happy returns.
posted by timeistight at 10:48 PM on July 27, 2002

Plus Miguel also has 9622 tattooed in gothic lettering across his chest. It's a beautiful thing.

See?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:52 PM on July 27, 2002

I have never book-marked a thread in my life Miguel, though I have browsed through the zip code list many a time. I have no idea why, it's just something I do.

I also love browsing through user profiles randomly selecting a number or using the http://www.metafilter.com/username.mefi/ feature.

Then, I'll start going through all my old posts seeing if there were any late replies to threads I forgot to check up on.


posted by insomnyuk at 11:08 PM on July 27, 2002

Ahppy Ibrthday, 2ykarl!
posted by vacapinta at 11:17 PM on July 27, 2002

Also, sawks has the coolest user page.

I'm disappointed people dont' put a bit more time into their userpages.

But I'm more disappointed at the pile on. If anyone else had asked this question, we would not have been greeeted with mcsweeties clever alliterative response. Sure, its navel gazing. Who cares?
posted by insomnyuk at 11:19 PM on July 27, 2002

The pile on is at the very least justified. Had anyone else asked this question, it's possible that the response would have been different, but that'd be the point, wouldn't it? Who else posts so many links that seem simply designed to either 1) see one's little yellow-colored nick on the front page of MeFi or MeTa, or 2) spark the sort of response that it's gotten. I'm sure they're getting raked over the coals as well.

No sympathy for Miguel, dovies--I refuse to believe he doesn't see this coming each and every time he posts this sort of link. This has to be the type of attention he loves; what's the saying? You know, the one about taking infamy, if one can't have fame.

And re: anil's supposed elitism - MeFi/MeTa has long been a self-policing community. He's not the only one who finds many of Miguel's posts extraneous and inappropriate and sometimes, well, downright pointless for the MeFi environment. The desire to keep a MeFi from becoming a free-for-all snarkfest and chat site doesn't equate to elitism, in my estimation.
posted by precocious at 12:10 AM on July 28, 2002

Yes, Happy B'day to the man who commented on my first post: "Or else,I am wasting my time here casting nacreously coated sediments before bifurcate-hooved food animals neither kosher nor halal. I am a jealous y2karl and will have no other Karls, kafakesques or Miguels before me. The fire the next time, kids..."
And I thought "WTF?" Miguel, back to the normal machine my friend!





posted by Mack Twain at 12:11 AM on July 28, 2002

Do you post incessantly to MetaTalk because you think there is either cachet or novelty in seeing one's name on the grey page, even though it's a privilege over 14,000 people can abuse at any time? Are you blissfully unaware of the absolute rage that's inspired by the relentless banality of your ceaseless posting?

Yeah, I'm gonna have to side with the "Anil's a big whiny bitch" faction.
posted by donkeyschlong at 12:20 AM on July 28, 2002

I'm disappointed people don't put a bit more time into their userpages.

For what it's worth, I tried. Matt's restrictions don't let me put a 104kb ascii image on the server, so instead you get this.

Maybe I'll yEnc or uue something hilarious and post it on there. And only us geeks will get it! Excelsior!
posted by geoff. at 12:41 AM on July 28, 2002

And I thought "WTF?"


Mmmm... qwBEerty....
posted by y2karl at 12:48 AM on July 28, 2002

Geoff - Hedwig, yes? Keen.

For what it's worth, I think precocious has summed it up perfectly. Miguel gets piled on for posting stuff like this because he does it (in my opinion) way too much. I do believe that if someone else with a similar track record had posted this, it would have gotten the same reaction.
posted by toddshot at 1:32 AM on July 28, 2002

Oh alright - happy birthday, y2karl!
posted by MiguelCardoso at 2:09 AM on July 28, 2002

for the record, miguel, you *do* post this stuff way too much. but i still think you're a nice guy. =)
posted by donkeyschlong at 2:20 AM on July 28, 2002

Why thank you, donkeyshlong! When will the rest of you understand that flattery is the only way into my heart? ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 2:30 AM on July 28, 2002

> Are you blissfully unaware of the absolute rage that's
> inspired by the relentless banality of your ceaseless
> posting?

Absolute rage? Only if you should be (but aren't) on some sort of rather strong psychoactive medication.
posted by pracowity at 2:35 AM on July 28, 2002

Happy Birthday y2karl.

Miguel: Keep having fun in Lisbon. It'll be illegal in the US before too long... ;-)
posted by i_cola at 2:57 AM on July 28, 2002

And I forgot: Happy Birthday, Karl!
posted by pracowity at 3:05 AM on July 28, 2002

Infamy!, Infamy!, they've all got it in for me! (Kenneth Williams).There was a long, long thread not so long ago regarding contributing within a thread one had started oneself, the conclusion seemed to be that if you did so you were effectively moderating your own thread ; bad ju ju.
Are there exceptions to this?
posted by Fat Buddha at 3:38 AM on July 28, 2002

Bad jujubes.
posted by pracowity at 4:11 AM on July 28, 2002

In reply to Mr Cardoso?s questions : No. No. No. Yes. No. No. Probably.

May all your birthday wishes come true y2karl.

posted by Tarrama at 4:44 AM on July 28, 2002

Word to Anil & McSweetie. Didn't mathowie say he was gonna limit the posts to MeTa per user to once a week? Just so I don't have to see these inane, excessively wordy more than once a week it would be well worth it. Hell, I'll even pony up cash for it!
posted by macadamiaranch at 5:36 AM on July 28, 2002

This whole place is all about polarization and disagreement

Zarah, I don't think that MeFi is necessarily about polarization. It's about disagreement, of course, and that gave us especially in the past those seminar-like discussions many of us are so nostalgic of. Polarization is a bad result of -- especially -- 9/11 war discussions, I/P and so forth. Polarization, as already been discussed on Meta and also privately by many users, is one of the problems of the current state of MetaFilter

Just check out year-old and 2-years-old discussions, much less polarization there
posted by matteo at 6:37 AM on July 28, 2002

So you are all caught up? No need to worry about getting stuck in a rut because there will always be something new to feed your web addiction.

First you are stunned by the amount of porn and cyber sex. Then you get caught up for a while in ICQ chatrooms and make buddies on AIM and MSN or whatever other instant message tool you can find. Someone tells you all about the free music you can obtain online so you get real gung ho and start downloading a shitload of music and add a cd burner to your computer. Maybe at the same time you registered a domain and started a website. For a while you spend time decorating and re-decorating your website and become an expert at websurfing. Eventually you run across a community of people who are displaying their lives to the unknown in online journals and blogs. It feels good to think somebody might really care about your life and your opinions. So you start one as well. You play follow the links from blog to blog and one day you discover Metafilter. And it's real cool...in the beginning.

New fun web communities usually lose their luster because they become routine and repetitive. It's inevitable that one day it winds up being the same group of dominating people beating the same dead horse over and over and over. And there will come a time when no matter how hard you tried to save it...you can't because it's time for it to die.

But don't worry because that's just web destiny where everything cycles out eventually. Just appreciate it while it's fun and stimulating but know when to jump ship and move on in search of the next big thing.
posted by oh posey at 7:58 AM on July 28, 2002

Thanks for the birthday wishes everyone. Boy, has my spam count increased---I've been offered a greencard--that's a first!

But I did sign up for this one:

Space Weather News for 28 July 2002

The Boulder sunspot number reached its highest value in more than a year
this weekend; the sun is peppered with spots. On Friday, an explosion near one of them--giant sunspot 39--hurled a coronal mass ejection (CME) into space. Although the CME was not squarely Earth-directed, some of the
cloud is heading our way. It could sweep past Earth as early as Sunday, July 28th, and trigger geomagnetic activity. Sky watchers should be alert for auroras after nightfall. Visit SpaceWeather.com for more information
and updates.

And a fan of the show sent me a present--Merle Haggard, A Tribute to the Best Damn Fiddle Player in the World (or, My Salute to Bob Wills)! Whoo hoo!
posted by y2karl at 8:05 AM on July 28, 2002

y2karl, if there's another CD swap, I want your name in my group. No need to do any fancy mixing, a copy of that there album will do just peachy.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 9:38 AM on July 28, 2002

macadamiaranch, put your money where your mouth is:)
posted by keithl at 10:49 AM on July 28, 2002

I did, keith, thanks.

mathowie hasn't updated that in months.
posted by macadamiaranch at 10:52 AM on July 28, 2002

I have to agree with Anil, and pose these questions, "Quanto Miguel é demasiado? É a escrita da constante de Miguel uma coisa má? Devemos nós manter-se nagging o sobre ela ou apenas ignorar o e a esperança que se suprime?" (Translation by Google language tools) Also, I really hate to see the disrespect shown here for Anil, who has a lot of interesting stuff to say on his own blog and is responsible for a lot of the goodness that happens around MeFi. I like zachsmind's user page and would like to wish a happy belated birthday to Karl!
posted by Lynsey at 1:46 PM on July 28, 2002

(sings happy birthday to Y2Karl in best Ethel Merman voice)
posted by clavdivs at 1:58 PM on July 28, 2002

keithl, not all people who donated are listed on that page, even if it was completely up to date. Some people have purposely not gone listed.
posted by Apoch at 2:02 PM on July 28, 2002

Also, I really hate to see the disrespect shown here for Anil, who has a lot of interesting stuff to say on his own blog and is responsible for a lot of the goodness that happens around MeFi.

Oh barf. Like that gives him carte blanche to be an asshole? Hell, he reminds us that the MeFi server is in his room or something every other chance he gets. Which apparently is a bragging point in some universe I'm not aware of.

Anyway, no one's dissing him anymore than he dissed (in rather inflammatory language, at that) Miguel.
posted by donkeyschlong at 2:09 PM on July 28, 2002

Oh barf. Like that gives him carte blanche to be an asshole?

He is one of the rare few around here who knows MeFi as well as one could. And I don't think anyone is giving him carte blanche per se, it's just that many agree with him and calling him on the inflammatory language would have taken away from his point, that this post is utterly meaningless.

Hell, he reminds us that the MeFi server is in his room or something every other chance he gets.

I would love to see the links supporting this claim.
posted by BlueTrain at 2:17 PM on July 28, 2002

Hell, he reminds us that the MeFi server is in his room or something every other chance he gets. Which apparently is a bragging point in some universe I'm not aware of.

He does? I must have missed every last time, 'cause I didn't know that.

Anyway, no one's dissing him anymore than he dissed (in rather inflammatory language, at that) Miguel.

Okay, exercise in imagination:

I poke you, you ask me to stop.
I poke you again, you ask me nicely and politely in a slightly louder voice to stop, because maybe I didn't hear you the first time.
I poke you, you wonder if maybe I'm deaf.
I poke you, and you spell it out for me in sign language that you want me to stop.
I continue poking you. Ten minutes of steady poking later, you finally shout, "JESUS F*CK, would you stop POKING ME!?" That is, if you haven't decked me by now.

Someone wanders by and tut-tuts at you for losing your temper and/or overreacting.

Miguel's Random & Often Frivolous(tm) threads poke a lot of people around here. People who, in mefi's long-standing self-policing capacity, have indicated the poking's not welcome.

Those who say, "You wouldn't jump on this thread if it wasn't Miguel," here's a thought -- would you defend the thread so vigorously if it wasn't Miguel? Or someone who wasn't very popular at all? Just some random newbie posting threads like that -- when said newbie was taken to task, how many would take up for him? I imagine at least one person would, if only to say, "He's a newbie, he didn't know any better."

I personally think Miguel's a funny guy, but he's not a newbie, and he should know better.
posted by precocious at 2:33 PM on July 28, 2002

I just think there are nicer ways to say stuff, is all.
posted by donkeyschlong at 2:43 PM on July 28, 2002

Miguel's fine and dandy and funny and tipsy and all, but he does poke.

And poke. And poke. And poke.

And poke.

I jump on the dash/precocious bandwagon.
posted by evanizer at 2:53 PM on July 28, 2002

Please. Make. It. Stop.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 2:55 PM on July 28, 2002

There are nicer ways to say stuff I agree.
At the risk of sounding obtuse, if someone kept poking me I would tend to walk away from the poker, out of reach of the irritating finger. I click on Miguels posts because they are nearly always entertaining, or funny, or informative or cool in one way or another.
If they irritated the shit out of me, I wouldn't click. Am I missing something? Is that too simplistic?
posted by Fat Buddha at 2:58 PM on July 28, 2002

me like pie.

Damnit crunchland, that link rocked!
posted by BlueTrain at 2:58 PM on July 28, 2002

To clarify, I'd like to point out that Metafilter, and be extension, Metatalk, is not a place for original composition or material. Hence the meta. Rather, it is a place to collect bits and pieces of information that may be interesting to some subsegment of the community here. Hence the filter. Metatalk is a place to hash out how it is we should be accomplishing that goal.

Random nattering is not appreciated.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 2:59 PM on July 28, 2002

At the risk of sounding obtuse, if someone kept poking me I would tend to walk away from the poker, out of reach of the irritating finger.

Having known someone would say something like this, I actually had the following pre-written and saved to a text file^*.

"...And the fact that it is possible to simply walk away from said poker doesn't negate or supercede the fact that 1) the poker is wrong, and 2) the pokee has more right to stay his place than the poker does to poke, especially when the poking is taking place in a designated 'No Poking Zone.'"

^*It should be fairly obvious why I decided not to post this initially.
posted by precocious at 3:20 PM on July 28, 2002

precocious, you saved that up just to use it to poke someone with. The poke here is metaphorical, so your argument doesn't add up, you don't have to move anywhere to avoid being poked by Miguel, you just have to cock a deaf un.
posted by Fat Buddha at 3:36 PM on July 28, 2002

Those who say, "You wouldn't jump on this thread if it wasn't Miguel," here's a thought -- would you defend the thread so vigorously if it wasn't Miguel? Or someone who wasn't very popular at all?

Erm yes, I believe at least 2 of the people who said that (in so many words) mentioned it would have been fun and interesting if members had posted their quirky mefi habits instead of flaming the dude. And not all of us are taking notes as to who is and isn't annoying on a regular basis, or who is and isn't popular (internet popularity? damn that's sad). Some members just take each post as it comes,you know, without stopping to remember whether they dislike the poster or not.

Holy crap, where do people find the time and wherewithal to keep score cards like this? And who can keep track of or stick to the rules (which are pretty anal) around this joint when everyone is breaking them all the time. lawd!
posted by zarah at 3:40 PM on July 28, 2002

it would have been fun and interesting if members had posted their quirky mefi habits instead of flaming the dude

zarah has a point.
posted by vacapinta at 4:19 PM on July 28, 2002

The poke here is metaphorical, so your argument doesn't add up, you don't have to move anywhere to avoid being poked by Miguel

One actually *does* have to read the front page of MeFi/MeTa, if they're planning on participating, so it really isn't like you can avoid it. Except by just not coming to MeFi/MeTa at all. Is that something you'd suggest?

And not all of us are taking notes as to who is and isn't annoying on a regular basis

Last I checked, it's a pretty normal human habit to remember things pertinent to something you do often. Hell, I have ADD, and it's no biggie to think, "This is like what--the fiftieth thread Miguel's posted that's completely pointless?" especially given the general fuss that's raised each time about how inappropriate it is.

You'd think the point would have been gotten by now. You do realize you're defending a repeat and cognizant (dare I say 'gleeful'?) offender in the "Things You Can Do To Annoy Many MeFites At Once" department, right?

zarah has a point

It's not the fact that it's this sort of thread, so much as it's the same guy. Who posts this sort of thread often. (Were I truly anal, I'd have some links here, but at my best, I'm just lazy.)

If everyone made posts about dreams about metafilter, or foods we associate with metafilter, or [insert something insipid here], the overall quality of the site would be reduced to that of a Yugo. Self-policing is all about squashing it before it gets to that point. People who contribute to the decrease in quality often aren't usually given cookies and a pat on the back.
posted by precocious at 6:02 PM on July 28, 2002

precocious: yes, except that i hear the "shut up and go to the next thread" defense all the time from the same people who bitch about miguel, except they're defending the newsfilter or i/p discussions. i'm confused -- should i be pro-ignoring things i don't like, or anti-?
posted by pikachulolita at 6:27 PM on July 28, 2002

I think I know the point that Fat Buddha is trying to make. Precocious, I dont know if you if you have younger siblings but if they do poke you and you over-react, well that will always keep them coming back for more.

You'd think the point would have been gotten by now

Well it hasnt, has it? Its not working. All that is accomplished is that Anil and others have ruined what might have been an interesting thread. Maybe its time to take a step back.

. Except by just not coming to MeFi/MeTa at all. Is that something you'd suggest?

I'd suggest spending more time in Mefi. Your Meta/Mefi posting ratio is about the same as Miguels which adds to the perception that this is all some sort of insider turf war.

If everyone made posts about dreams about metafilter...

This is also what Anil said but it doesnt hold water. Not everyone is doing this. In any human community there will always be a natural statistical distribution - if everyone went to my local grocery store at the same time then, yes, there'd be chaos. But that doesnt happen. Miguel is an outlier in this curve and its always so easy to pick on the outliers.

For the record, I've posted before in these sort of threads (in the rodii days) attacking Miguel and his attempts at creating cliques. Thats not what this is and now I just see people who seem to have some sort of old vendetta trying to shit all over his threads.

I find Anils "rage" more off-putting than Miguel's habitual posting. For many of us this constant whining is having the opposite of the effect that I think was intended.
posted by vacapinta at 6:49 PM on July 28, 2002

I find Anils "rage" more off-putting than Miguel's habitual posting.

I tend to agree but it's not like they are independent events. Those who Miguel irritates with his selfish constant postings feel helpless--Self-shaming is meaningless in the face of shamelessness. So, they explode and it gets rather ugly. Miguel bears some responsibilty for the resulting bad blood, which was my point in complaining here.

Just for the record, I must point out that I have never criticized Miguel for frivolous posting before this thread. In fact, I've stuck up for him in past pile ons here. So count me out as one of the ax grinders--usually I like his frivolities.

This time was just too much for me, however, it was like watching that scene in The Bellboy where Jerry Lewis keeps trying to repair this soft clay bust he's nudged until he turns it into this horrific caricature--and that crossed with the voiceover from the opening scenes of Manhattan:

Chapter One: He was as tough and romantic as the city he loved. Behind his black-rimmed glasses was the coiled sexual power of a jungle cat.

'I love this.'

...New York was his town. And it always would be.

For me, at first encounter, his post was just excruciatingly painful to read--smarmy, smug and oh so 'I love this' self-satisfied. I find it still a real stinkeroo to read, too.


--And when are these fuckin' ??????'s going away!?
That may have been what helped tipped me over.

And why are people still posting in 9622 here? I thought that 9622.net was the answer for that.

Oh, and a happy birthday (belated ) to Miguel and (premature by a couple of days) stavrosthewonderchicken.
posted by y2karl at 7:42 PM on July 28, 2002

??????'s, I mean
posted by y2karl at 7:45 PM on July 28, 2002

OK--those damn boxes!
posted by y2karl at 7:45 PM on July 28, 2002

pikachulolita: I am personally anti-ignoring. It usually ends up with one being called an elitist, or whiny bitch (or some variant thereof), but it's the time-honored method of getting things accomplished.

Your Meta/Mefi posting ratio is about the same as Miguels which adds to the perception that this is all some sort of insider turf war.

1 - I like Miguel. I think he's pithy and personable. I even like his posts. Miguel's a cool guy. Huge fan here of 9622.net. Even post there. Turf war? That is, for lack of better, a silly statement. I just personally feel that some things are better left for a place like 9622.net, and not MetaFilter. Were I the only one who felt this way, well, the matter would be an easily discounted one. But I'm not. And there have been many indications of this.

2 - No-one's complaining about comments here. The complaints are about MeFi/MeTa front page posts which have guidelines--mathowie and community instituted--not some comments that are tucked inside of a valid/intuitive/actually useful thread.

Oh, and a casual glance at my user page'll note that I've posted approximately -0- Metafilter front page posts, and -1- Metatalk front page post. Outside of the fact that I'm loathe to post a FPP that doesn't bring something new or interesting to the community, the number of posts I (or Miguel, for that matter) have made means absolutely nothing . . . just like bringing up my posting history.

For the record, I've posted before in these sort of threads (in the rodii days) attacking Miguel and his attempts at creating cliques.

Do you think the fact that you used to attack Miguel and don't any more gives you even the tiniest amount of credibility? The issue isn't about attacking Miguel, though, I mean, it's nice that you no longer do. Good for you!

I personally wouldn't have put things quite like Anil did, and I haven't been defending that, even though there actually does come a point where polite phrasing is futile. The issue's about quality, and keeping MeFi full of it. I mean, if the concept that ignoring meaningless posts will lead to more of the same--be it from the same person or others just following suit--doesn't "hold water" with you, what does?
posted by precocious at 7:47 PM on July 28, 2002

means absolutely nothing . . . just like bringing up my posting history.

I didn't intend a personal attack and I apologize if that is how it seemed. I do have a problem, though with those who seem much more interested in running the site than in participating in it. Its a bad schoolteacher association I have.

there actually does come a point where polite phrasing is futile

My point is that its come to a point beyond that where even impolite phrasing is futile and it demeans everybody involved.

if the concept ... doesn't "hold water" with you, what does?

I dont know. I dont have the answers. I simply maintain that this endless cycle of Miguel-posting-getting-attacked-polarization-ensues is tiresome and must be *extremely* off-putting to newbies to whom Metafilter belongs as much as it does to the old-timers. I agree with y2karl that *both* sides now bear responsibility for this ugliness. I just see one side trying to take a higher ground.

posted by vacapinta at 8:12 PM on July 28, 2002

Good lord, you people should develop the sense of humor that Miguel has. I would be wiser not to reply, but I don't have that kind of self-control, obviously...

anil: are you blissfully unaware of the absolute disdain that's inspired by the relentless vapidity of your elitist bitching?

Elitist? How? I'm being anti-elitist, trying to open up MetaTalk to Anyone Other Than Miguel. Only Miguel thinks his every chin-stroking contemplation of the Nature of MetaFilter is worthy of a post, despite not being, as pointed out above, under the description "discussion area for topics specific to MetaFilter itself, ranging from bug reports to feature requests to questions of content"?

As for all the objections to my (clearly exaggerated) "rage". Yeah, it'd be nuts if I were in a rage. But I'm not, as I would hope would be clear just from its pure absurdity. Those of you who've checked in here often enough to post multiple times, at length, about this lunacy are much more in danger of being too emotionally attached to MeFi.

Oh barf. Like that gives him carte blanche to be an asshole? Hell, he reminds us that the MeFi server is in his room or something every other chance he gets. Which apparently is a bragging point in some universe I'm not aware of.

The fact that you remember this and I don't probably indicates that you see it as a bragging point. For what it's worth, I don't have the MeFi server in my room. That I posted a few questions and you all immediately assumed they were about Miguel proves that I'm not really that much of an asshole; I must be pointing out something that is a logical objection. I find it fascinating that I could post as infrequently as I do and yet you still feel you've developed a full mental image of me. That's quite a concerted effort in developing an emotional investment that you've made there.

I certainly don't ask for carte blanche. And I haven't really made any particular contributions of value to MetaFilter, aside some rather unspectacular links, and trying to be helpful to Matt. But I've also not abused the most limited resource on MetaFilter and MetaTalk, the ability to post new threads. It was never my intention for this thread to become a referendum on me, but I'll welcome a comparison in one regard, if people want to make it into that:

If everyone on MeFi acted like I did, this site would still probably function. If everyone acted like Miguel, it wouldn't.
posted by anildash at 8:20 PM on July 28, 2002

Everyone kiss and go play in the blue - its a prettier color.
posted by vacapinta at 8:23 PM on July 28, 2002

This is truly weird.

A man who gets 100+ comment bithday tribute here is facing an angry mob here. And now they're turning on anil.

*shakes head

Can't we all just get along??
posted by jonmc at 8:29 PM on July 28, 2002

Those of you who've checked in here often enough to post multiple times, at length, about this lunacy are much more in danger of being too emotionally attached to MeFi.

Whenever I load up MeFi or MeTa, I press a loving kiss upon the screen.

I've had nightmares where some threads came to life, and when people talked, text would come out of their mouths at 11px sans-serif. And I was illiterate.

Of the above, nothing is true.

A man who gets 100+ comment bithday tribute here is facing an angry mob here. And now they're turning on anil.

Can I state for the record that I've never once been much more than factual or bemused? I mean, 'cause Yoda says anger eventually leads to the Dark Side, and we don't want that.
posted by precocious at 8:51 PM on July 28, 2002

Is Miguel the Portuguese Larry King? He does have that high paying newspaper column. Some days I'm reading one of his Here's Miguel postings and I'm thinking: here's a guy who has known the need to pay his rent by the word, who long ago perfected the art of being able throw any assorted combination of references into a paragraph, tie them all together with a heap of fawning breathlessness.

But he's actually sort of interesting to have around. Probably a great guest at parties. Couldn't say the same for Larry King.
posted by TimTypeZed at 9:03 PM on July 28, 2002

I'm being anti-elitist, trying to open up MetaTalk to Anyone Other Than Miguel.

how does miguel posting stop anyone else from doing so?

posted by juv3nal at 9:03 PM on July 28, 2002

but i do get the feeling if someone else had posted it you'd all be happily contributing an anecdote about your mefi habits, which would have been kinda fun

The problem with this argument is that no one except Miguel would have started this thread. Seriously, did anyone have to get all the way down to his name to know that he was the perpetrator?

I'm not going to soil myself by surfing over to 96whatever and checking, but it's my guess that many of MC's defenders here are contributors over there and that we're seeing a posse coming to the rescue. And even if that's not the case, this thread was still outside of the stated purpose of MeTa, and it was still one in a long series of pointless posts, and it was still indicative of the reason that a lot of people who used to hang out over here no longer do.

posted by anapestic at 9:20 PM on July 28, 2002

we're seeing a posse coming to the rescue

Which would of course be totally unlike another posse coming to your rescue, were it required. Pot, kettle, etc.

My suggestion is that you just go back to 11whatever, and avoid soiling yourself any further, anapestic. I for one would rather have Miguel's idiotic self-serving Metaposts than your sporadic, unasked-for schoolmarming.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:34 PM on July 28, 2002

...but then again, perhaps that's needlessly harsh. I suppose I can grit my teeth and live quite happily with both, as can most of us, no doubt.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:37 PM on July 28, 2002

I'm not going to soil myself ...

Allow me?

I just see one side trying to take a higher ground.

Not exactly--if you take both commentaries into count. Interesting to compare comments and commentators between the two.
posted by y2karl at 9:49 PM on July 28, 2002

example:

Mig-uel got spanked in Me-TA!

Mig-uel got spanked in Me-TA!
Posted by: yhbc on July 28, 2002 02:11 AM

Baa, it was like being savaged by a dead sheep. Oh when will they understand that flattery is the only sure way to my heart? ;)
Posted by: Miguel on July 28, 2002 05:28 AM

*Imagines Miguel being molested with a rack of lamb, mint sauce and all*
Posted by: stavrosthewonderchicken on July 28, 2002 05:49 AM

miguel, i am very curious: what were your reasons for posting that? i'm hoping something beautifully ironic.
Posted by: pikachu lolita on July 28, 2002 06:05 AM

No, pikachu lolita - how tempting to dream up something cool, but I actually hoped people would like to discuss signs they were getting too involved with MetaFilter and perhaps what they did to fight against it. I remembered ColdChef and others remarking on the MeFi addiction and thought posting it on a Saturday night would bring out all the junkies.

Well, in a way it did and that's sort of ironic, though not beautiful, not by a long shot. :)
Posted by: Miguel on July 28, 2002 07:09 AM

well, it's not beautiful that everyone was all mean to you. and they did not behave particularly beautifully. but first of all, it's (depending on your motivation) either beautifully ironic or beautifully fitting that you'd post about people being too addicted to mefi, and then it's beautifully ironic that they all got their panties in a wad over you being such a blight on what is "just a website".

in short, i found pleasure in it, even though it very much felt like watching someone you like (who was kind of asking for it) get roughed up on the playground.
Posted by: pikachu lolita on July 28, 2002 07:28 AM
posted by y2karl at 10:00 PM on July 28, 2002

I'm not sure what you're trying to achieve there, y2karl, by cutting and pasting, but you've missed out the bit where I said to Miguel :

"you still refuse to seem to buy into the consensus understanding of what MeTa is supposed to be about"

and then (in the jesting tone one expects at 96whatever) forgive him for same.

For what it's worth, as usual.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:04 PM on July 28, 2002

No, I noticed that, stavros, and it's to your credit that you chided Miguel, gently as you did, As for what I'm trying to achieve--just trying to point out that everything said here or there is in full public view. Us vs. Them between two sites translates into Us. vs. Them at one site. One thing is for sure--Miguel's gotten a lot of attention these last two days. And the word enabler comes to mind... for what it's worth.
posted by y2karl at 10:18 PM on July 28, 2002

I would hate to think of it as an Us vs. Them thing. It's more of a Miguel vs. Everyone thing, surely!

*grins*

96whatever (and this applies to other MeFi-offshoot sites, I think) exists in great part because of a love for Metafilter, and the people who make it up. That's my take, although there are some there who no longer participate here, from disappointment or whatever else.

I'm only a participant there, rather than an admin, but : 9622 exists and was created, after some very valid complaints here, to siphon off some of the wacky funsterism and chattiness that was becoming overwhelming in the past. As long as most or all of the Bad Habits Monkeys over at 9622 still participate in both places, there's going to be some of that kind of behaviour here, too. This is going to include MiguelPosts™, clearly, because it seems clear to me at least that after all the abuse heaped on the Portugan in the past, he's not going to change now, unless Matt takes some kind of drastic action.

You're right, I did chide Miguel gently, at least over there, and that's because, although I'm still not sure after all this time whether his motives for posting Miguel-style Metathreads here are entirely unselfish, I've come to agree with those who think that they are No Big Deal. I don't much like them, and I think they're unnecessary and do miss the point of Metatalk, but even though I think they ought to stop, or become less frequent, I don't think they're worth getting worked up over.

This has all been talked about so many damn times, though, it's probably not worth the effort of typ....
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:37 PM on July 28, 2002

Which would of course be totally unlike another posse coming to your rescue, were it required. Pot, kettle, etc.

I'm not aware of ever needing any posse to come to my rescue, but if they did, I'd certainly be comfortable with them being called on it. As would they, I'm sure.

In any case, you're comparing a hypothetical posse which hasn't actually come to my rescue with an actual posse (of which you're a member) that appears to be happening now. It's a weak comparison and a weaker argument. As far as I can tell, my hands, pots, and kettles are all clean.


posted by anapestic at 10:39 PM on July 28, 2002

Damn. This round goes to you, pesty.

*skulks off, grumbling*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:43 PM on July 28, 2002

I don't much like them, and I think they're unnecessary and do miss the point of Metatalk, but even though I think they ought to stop, or become less frequent, I don't think they're worth getting worked up over.

I can't argue with any of that, except the 'getting worked up over' part, perhaps. I wonder about his motives, too--either he's terminally clueless, terminally needy or he's just fucking with everyone's heads while being oh so nice and smooth and friendly about it.

As for drastic action--notice how short the MetaTalk page has become? Matt's options are pretty limited, I think--banning Miguel would lead to a bloodbath. I foresee a once a week posting limit on both pages--due to in no small part to Mr. Logorrhea from Portugal. He posts on the 'Filter every day of late. He's being completely irresponsible in his constant pushing of the envelope, which indicates to me the possibility that he just doesn't care about what people think.

Or there's always the possibility of demonic possession.

I don't like the idea of limits being imposed because one person won't play by the understood rules. Reminds me of a sign I saw when I was a kid--We Don't Swim In Your Toilet, Please Don't Pee In Our Pool. So, it's something other than No Big Deal, perhaps? Or maybe not...
posted by y2karl at 11:11 PM on July 28, 2002

I don't think any action is necessary, and didn't actually mean to imply that it was.

Even if it is a bit fast and furious lately, I enjoy Miguel's posting here quite a lot (as I do yours and that of many many others), bar these kinds of threads, which, again, I personally don't mind that much, although it's clear others still do.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:21 PM on July 28, 2002

jesus, y2karl, was that necessary? if i happened upon another mefi user's blog, i would think it in bad taste to cut and paste their comments without some sort of permission. a link, maybe, but come on. it seems disrespectful.

i think most people in that 9622 thread tried to find a way to show support for miguel as a person while saying something to the effect of, "you kind of deserved that", as i put at the end of my 9622 post (which you so conveniently posted). besides which, mixing the two sites and holding words in one against words in the other seems to me a specious argument. metatalk is the place for telling miguel he's done wrong, while 9622 would be the place for supporting him as a human being. everything in its place, right?

at my ex-college, we had a policy that in class you would address people formally, by their last names. out of class, it was all on a casual first name basis. this was intended to allow people to think of someone as two different people -- for example, in-class mr. cardoso, and out of class miguel. i think of 9622 as equivalent to out of class. is my point clear?

the 9622 post was a cheap shot, y2karl.
posted by pikachulolita at 11:50 PM on July 28, 2002

For what it's worth, I have the same "posse" fear about 96whatever and don't want to see it happen. Of course some people who know each other well will be more disposed toward defending each other, but that's the nature of friendship.

Pesty, I think that "soil myself" thing was a joke. At least I hope so. Seemed a bit harsh.
posted by Kafkaesque at 11:54 PM on July 28, 2002

a bit fast and furious lately

Like, every day? I don't get this recent barrage. Anildash is not wrong when he points out that if everyone posted like Miguel, this place would not be the better for it. Which then begs the question--Why is he doing it?

On review: So, pikachulolita, if you say something off premise, where any stranger can see it, and I post it here, it's cheap shot? But it's not if I link to it? So be it--just remember what can happen should you ever take any cheap shots off premise... I'm sorry but this isn't college and you don't make the rules for me anymore than I make them for you.

What I said about Us. vs. Them, what I said about enablers.

I thought the 'soil' myself a bit over the top, myself. But we're all human beings here. Well, most of us. But, in any case, to err and all that..
posted by y2karl at 12:19 AM on July 29, 2002

y2karl: it's a cheap shot without context, yes. if you just post it without identifying it, people have to search for the context of the statement (which is very important to most statements). if you link to it, people will still see what you intended, but they will also have context readily available to them. quotes can always be taken out of context, and when dealing with another member, it seems important to try to be as fair as possible.

i wasn't saying i had rules for you to follow. i'm just saying that if the argument here is "metatalk isn't the place for miguel's chatter", then one could just as easily make the argument that 9622 isn't the place for us to tell miguel what he's doing wrong over here. as such, i think your quote is kind of worthless -- it doesn't show anything about our attitudes towards miguel except that, if we have bones with him, we don't want to go at it in 9622.
posted by pikachulolita at 12:30 AM on July 29, 2002

as such, i think your quote is kind of worthless

I rather thought it was beautifully ironic.
posted by y2karl at 12:35 AM on July 29, 2002

touche.
posted by pikachulolita at 1:17 AM on July 29, 2002

So, what's this 9622 thing all about then, I'm confused. Is it a clique within a clique, within a claque? Can anyone join in? Why would one?
posted by Fat Buddha at 1:20 AM on July 29, 2002

This is like one big uncomfortable toothache; everyone seems to be hitting those terribly uncomfortable nerve-endings that make you suck in your breath and wince. Miguel is a manic poster, and there are people who are clearly annoyed by the copious number of "how do you feel about X?" posts and the sort of laissez-faire approach to MeTa he adopts every now and again. I can understand chiding him, but can't some of this be taken out of the public (MeTa), and into the private (email)?

It seems like it's an argument that has left the realm of etiquette and into a more personal feeling about how to negotiate terms with someone who is so clearly a major player in MetaFilter, but whom some disagree with in style matters. I see both sides. Regardless, some of the mud-slinging has almost made me blush this evening.

And I'm no shrinking violet....(maybe)

Anyhoo, I just sense that this has tipped from a well-balanced argument into gutter slogging. I don't mind waking up in the gutter every now and then, but must we all wake up there together? Too kinky for me....
posted by readymade at 1:30 AM on July 29, 2002

[Isn't it also a little weird to be writing about Miguel in the third person? Sort of like when your teacher bitched about you to your parents while you were standing there gazing at your cruddy sneakers. Or something.]
posted by readymade at 1:50 AM on July 29, 2002

> If everyone on MeFi acted like I did, this site would still
> probably function.

Until everyone stopped using it.

> If everyone acted like Miguel, it wouldn't.

True. And a party would not function if everyone there were a beautiful blonde woman in a slinky gown looking desperately for a man. But that doesn't mean you should not have beautiful blonde women in slinky gowns desperately trying to get laid at your parties. And not everyone is like Miguel, so there's no fear of that dread homogenization happening here.

This place needs the expansive "oh, sweet Jesus, there he goes again" sort as much as it needs the anal rulebook adherents popping in just to make a statement and leave, and it needs everything in between. It needs the left-wingers and the right-wingers, the vegetarian nutcases and the animal-torturing nutcases, and so on. Miguel goes on a bit, but he's a professional writer and a expansive communicator, so you expect it. He helps to make up for the literally thousands of subscribers who say nothing.
posted by pracowity at 1:51 AM on July 29, 2002

> [Isn't it also a little weird to be writing about Miguel
> in the third person?

Miguel was executed this morning at dawn.
posted by pracowity at 1:54 AM on July 29, 2002

Mr. Logorrhea from Portugal

That had me laughing. Hard.

Fat Buddha: check here.

posted by adampsyche at 4:18 AM on July 29, 2002

If everyone on MeFi acted like I did, this site would still probably function. If everyone acted like Miguel, it wouldn't.

That's the biggest problem I have with him. Miguel is a daily example to every new user that you don't have to practice any restraint on MetaFilter, and in my opinion, it's more than enough reason to tell the guy to either limit his posts to once a week or find someplace else to delint his navel.

I think most of us recognize that MetaFilter is founded on a premise that's exceptionally far-fetched on the Internet: The idea that if you trust thousands of people with a public resource, they will treat it with respect. Miguel fucks with that on an ongoing basis, and if he wasn't so disingenuously good-natured and effusive in praise (even to people like me who think he's completely nauseating), we'd recognize that his intentional efforts to flout the rules are classic trolling.
posted by rcade at 6:18 AM on July 29, 2002

Good GOD I agree with rcade.

*runs off screaming for mommy...wait, I am mom. Daddy!*
posted by BlueTrain at 6:34 AM on July 29, 2002

I remain impressed. Miguel reminds me of this guy we met at Uni. I f*cking hated him from day one because he was so annoying, but he continued to hang around and after awhile became endearing, although this is the first time I have ever thought of him since I left Uni 8 years ago.

I now remember his name was Hugh. God he was annoying. Had some good games of chess with him though.

Are you gay Miguel?


posted by Frasermoo at 6:39 AM on July 29, 2002

I always thought Hugh was gay.
posted by Frasermoo at 7:08 AM on July 29, 2002

Inquirig mind wants to know: if one practices omphaloskepsis, does that make one an omphaloskeptic?
posted by y2karl at 8:36 AM on July 29, 2002

Speaking of quirky MeFi habits, I frequently read it wearing my boxers with lobsters all over them.

Lobster print, that is. Not actual lobsters. Imagine the tortured screams were that so.

Not to mention all the melted butter I would need.
posted by ebarker at 9:15 AM on July 29, 2002

? = rage. I sure hope this is only to be a short lived bug of rage, to be ended real s??n.
Your posts are usually deep with info, yet all are unique which really adds to this place. Folks, checkout Miguel's web page. Yes, it's in a foreign land, and with certain tools you can translate the gist of it. Then you can see what he has not told you, key word not, to those who want less from him. ;)
PS, the unwanted added code: "Ã?Â?Ã?Â? = rage. I sure hope this is only a short lived bug of rage, to be ended real sÃ?Â?Ã?Â?Ã?Â?Ã?Â?n."
It's like fortran all over again for me, grrrrrrrr soon to hate Meta..............
posted by thomcatspike at 9:44 AM on July 29, 2002

"?" = ? =< rage now, Matt!!!!!!!!!!!!!
posted by thomcatspike at 9:47 AM on July 29, 2002

Oh, I give up, sorry my post will not make much sense now, sincere apologies to all for more confusion.
"?", were boxes...........
posted by thomcatspike at 9:49 AM on July 29, 2002

clavdivs, please come to the information counter and pick up your son.
posted by y2karl at 10:17 AM on July 29, 2002

Then you can see what he has not told you, key word not, to those who want less from him. ;)

thomcatspike, a link to the appropriate page and text would be helpful.

Still, a response from the object of our disaffection would be nice.
posted by y2karl at 11:08 AM on July 29, 2002

thomcatspike, a link to the appropriate page and text would be helpful.

A link? go to his profile page and no, I'm not going to tell you which translator to use. You have the sufficient tools to do it yourself. I'm not the official reference at Meta, I do have a nice catch phrase for it though, yet it's quick and succinct to the insult....

Please, have any of you tried to figure him out? That's half the fun here. You don't have to read every thread. Yes, it would be nice if all the threads were well, like the ones "I" enjoyed. Either you get him or not. But, not checking him out is of no excuse. Yes, think of Miguel as "Mikie" he eats anything.(from a tv commercial for a brand of morning cereal). Be glad he doesn't intentionally double post or post things that are childish and then baits to start a verbal war. Whatever, he does post makes complete sense. What we do know about him, he is not invisible or hiding somewhere. As, he uses his real name. Although some of you only use MetaTalk for one purpose, he does know how to use it to, chat with you.

Check out his history here. I think he has now won the award for most nominations for a MetaTalk thread about him. Hey, Miguel, can I be on your next spin off, whoops, I meant "Metatalk the series."

Personally, I think he brings some equality to this place. One characteristic I know he has over most here, is compassion. Read his posts. It's funny only the real smart ones, human or animal posses this true quality in life.

If he was a problem, take it from me, Matt would have nixed this thread and his membership, too. Do you want to be a part of the solution or part of the problem to it? You need to decide and find your answers from within yourself. Instead of him answering you here.

Maybe, my next post should be about what this all brakes down to, our minds and what makes us have an imagination. See an imagination is the keys to our minds, and in more than just one aspect of it all. See, in one way to have compassion is to be imaginative by putting oneself in his or hers shoes. Unfortunately, I haven't found any current articles on it. And how do I know he has compassion, as your comments he doesn't take them personally, like most would, me included.
PS, I forgot this wasn't a post on him, but his post to us.
Sorry, Miguel, to ruin it?
posted by thomcatspike at 2:19 PM on July 29, 2002

See an imagination is the keys to our minds, and in more than just one aspect of it all. See, in one way to have compassion is to be imaginative by putting oneself in his or hers shoes.

Maybe put yourself in the shoes of the people here who quite reasonably and calmly repeated over and over for the record, miguel, you *do* post this stuff way too much in various ways?

As for attacks--I've never really called Miguel out for his overposting before, now have I? Or did you already decide I had when you telepathically verified my utter lack of understanding in regards to humor and compassion?

The reason I've been after him in this thread is I want him to account for his part in causing this snit fest. But he's going to walk away and pretend it never happened and he has nothing to do with it, isn't he?

And wipe the snot off your nose and stop patronizing people with this preachy puerile we don't understand compassion like smarter and wiser you crapola.
posted by y2karl at 3:43 PM on July 29, 2002

y2karl, e-mail him, have you?. He seems the type to answer them, he has for me. Yes, I do apologize for reading too much into what you said. I just see that he did use Meta for other things than bitching.
And again I was multi tasking and came back to do a follow up, yet forgot what the thread was originally about. Why, first of all part of the thread was also reading the comments. As, he had asked a question. Then it turned on Miguel, the thread became bash Miguel. I had more personal stuff, yet when I realized like I previous said, I deleted or rewrote it. Yet as I was reading half the comments which were not thread related, what else was I left to think. Just personal attacks. Yes that is what part of MetaTalk is about, yet I took a long time to hit post, and still nothing mentioned in Etiquette on him.

And to be honest I have not figured out why more metafilter FPPs are not in here, where they can be discussed. For example, some current event which happens to be related to my favorite radio station. So in metatlk you could post the why's of my station or yours that make it so unique, for you.

All I have heard and I hope I get this right, why does Miguel over use this place? Well I have seen about the same when I was first a viewer, yet the old has changed with the new. And Miguel is part of the old, sorry Miguel, I do know your age. Maybe you should post more, as it's obvious fare game, Karl. Also, the threads are at a low volume. I'm sure Matt knows what is going on, trust me again I know, he told me quicker than anyone could draw their six flamer, and pancaked me in a very detailed e-mail. Main reason I'm responding.
Now Miguel it is up to you.....................
posted by thomcatspike at 5:55 PM on July 29, 2002

See, I just mostly see Miguel's posts in MeTa as being really annoying shout-outs to the same bunch of people over & over. I understand that there are a *lot* of people who assocaite off site (in various Cult Threads [RIP] and on the 9622.net thing)--and they only have associated because of their interaction in MeFi, and that's great. They've also created those spaces & avenues for chit-chat, and they love them dearly. Me, I don't follow all that other cult baloney--I read MeFi & MeTa. And when I see another Miguel "Let's all talk about how great this all is" thread--that's just not what MeTa is for. I'm a fan, but you know, I just don't see the need to gush about it with all of you here, in MeTa, where it's been established this sort of post isn't meant to be. That's what the cult threads & 9622 or whatever is for--they're fansites, created by MeFi fans, who enjoy each others comments & wit outside the post-related discussion at hand, and where this nonsense is welcome. So please take your fanboy worship back on over to them. You'll get the interaction that you want with people who will appreciate it.
posted by macadamiaranch at 6:05 PM on July 29, 2002

Well said, macadamiaranch.
posted by Kafkaesque at 9:02 PM on July 29, 2002

Well said, macadamiaranch.
And Miguel - please keep posting interesting links and stuff...just less of the gushy/culty. Ta!
posted by dash_slot- at 8:40 AM on July 30, 2002

Will do, dash_slot-, thanks.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 9:07 AM on July 30, 2002

I just stumbled across this thread.

I had no idea so many people read 9622.net - that said, I don't think that this thread would have made any sense at 9622.net. On 9622.net people do sometimes react to mefi/meta, but this thread would have been totally out of place. Metatalk is the place where we talk about metafilter, for those of you who are confused. 9622.net is where some people who also read Metafilter play. It's not a rejected Metafilter trashheap.

"That I posted a few questions and you all immediately assumed they were about Miguel proves that I'm not really that much of an asshole; I must be pointing out something that is a logical objection."
To sum up for those confused about the logical objection:
Anil writes rhetorical questions -> Readers perceive that the questions are *not* rhetorical, but are in fact about Miguel -> Readers call Anil an asshole -> readers are humorless, Miguel sucks but is humorfull, and Anil is not an asshole.
That's nifty! What sort of proof system is that?

Yeah - some people here have little cliques - the place started as a little clique, with Jonmc thrown in for good measure. I see lots of little friendships and cliques forming frequently here. Some of y'all (former Austinite) meet at SXSW. Some people talk on 9622.net. Some people hate I/P threads like I do. Some of you hate miguelesque threads. Can you image if I went in to every I/P thread and started bad talking about how annoying the threads are, like I want to? I somewhat begrudgingly exercise restraint and let everyone enjoy themselves arguing. I don't try to win points by making a quick comment early on in the thread that derides the poster and turns the discussion into the pros and cons of the poster.
posted by goneill at 12:23 PM on July 30, 2002

Let's try this:

Anil posts rhetorical questions about obnoxious behavior -> Readers immediately assume questions refer to Miguel -> It can't be completely ridiculous or absurd to label some of Miguel's behavior obnoxious, if multiple people jump to that conclusion independently and without prompting.

And no, I'm not an asshole. I pointed out that he has a sense of humor because I like Miguel and I don't doubt that he knows I distinguish between who he is and one particular action he does that I think is inappropriate.

I don't care about cliques, some would say I belong to a few, I would argue that I don't. My greater concern, and perhaps I didn't do it justice with the tone of my expression of it, is that someone can claim to love MetaFilter while doing something that is destructive to it.

Can you imagine if every I/P thread were posted by one person?
posted by anildash at 12:51 PM on July 30, 2002

the place started as a little clique, with Jonmc thrown in for good measure.

Same could be said for MetaFilter. Anybody got a #58 trading card?
posted by y2karl at 1:04 PM on July 30, 2002

y2karl... That's what I was trying to say... I'm tired and cranky today.

anil, I didn't mean to insult you (well, perhaps I was furious for a while) and I don't even think that you are an asshole if you were saying that miguel is a dipwad. I don't think that you have proof here though that you aren't an asshole.

I think that people were more likely to jump to the conclusion that you were talking about miguel's because your comment read like miguel's. It read like you were mocking him. And, come on, the questions weren't rhetorical and philosophical, they were pointed. I don't want to argue about the validity of your point, because I flat out disagree, and I think we should agree to disagree here, but you were mis-using 'logic', and that, my friend, is worthy of death.

I think I have some form of math hackles up, so I'd just like to apologise now.

I thought that the I/P threads were posted by one person. Whenever I see threads that might mention it I cry just a little and the tears blur the by line.
posted by goneill at 1:31 PM on July 30, 2002

Keep posting steadily, Miguel, and remember one of ol' foldy's endearing homilies about them there ubiquitous little yap dogs you'll often find snappin' at your ankles.

They're pesky...but basically harmless.

Your musings are more interesting...more urbane...more humane... on any given day than any posts on MeFi or MeTa.

Which enrages many of the natives. Give 'em time. And occasional hell.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 2:15 AM on July 31, 2002

I disagree with Mr. Mutilate. One cannot post to a community site with scorn for the community, or disregard for same.

And one should probably respond to criticisms leveled at one's self when one's thread goes awry. I can see why you wouldn't want to, but still.
posted by D at 7:54 AM on July 31, 2002

...but still.

Indeed
posted by y2karl at 11:23 AM on July 31, 2002

I can totally respect the defense of logic. I didn't mean it in the formal sense, as I am familiar with formal logic and propositional calculus, and clearly my earlier assertions don't fit the standards of thos disciplines.
posted by anildash at 11:46 AM on July 31, 2002

I am overattached to MetaFilter. But then, you already knew that.
posted by ColdChef at 6:54 AM on August 1, 2002