how not to win friends and influence people September 10, 2002 6:59 AM Subscribe
"ps to all the "spell check" asswipes I have compromised my systems security to please you now go away."
hoopyfrood is making friends and influencing people all over the place
hoopyfrood is making friends and influencing people all over the place
I love the name "hoopyfrood".
So like "Oscar the Grouch", just picture him peering out of a trash can, and things aren't that bad.
posted by hama7 at 7:08 AM on September 10, 2002
So like "Oscar the Grouch", just picture him peering out of a trash can, and things aren't that bad.
posted by hama7 at 7:08 AM on September 10, 2002
Funny, I picture many of you peering out of trash cans.
Except for Miguel. Him I picture in a big dark leather chair in a wood-paneled room, wearing a smoking jacket and sipping cognac.
posted by yhbc at 7:11 AM on September 10, 2002
Except for Miguel. Him I picture in a big dark leather chair in a wood-paneled room, wearing a smoking jacket and sipping cognac.
posted by yhbc at 7:11 AM on September 10, 2002
i don't think this was worth a call out.
I came over here to see if there was a thread. I'm not sure I would have started one, but if this weren't here, I likely would have written Matt. 'Frood needs a chill pill.
posted by frykitty at 7:17 AM on September 10, 2002
I came over here to see if there was a thread. I'm not sure I would have started one, but if this weren't here, I likely would have written Matt. 'Frood needs a chill pill.
posted by frykitty at 7:17 AM on September 10, 2002
Oh, and that third link perhaps should have been this.
posted by frykitty at 7:19 AM on September 10, 2002
posted by frykitty at 7:19 AM on September 10, 2002
From trash can to leather chair is a far easier transition (and more reluctant than one might think) than imagined...
posted by MiguelCardoso at 7:27 AM on September 10, 2002
posted by MiguelCardoso at 7:27 AM on September 10, 2002
i don't think this was worth a call out.
I came over here to see if there was a thread. I'm not sure I would have started one, but if this weren't here, I likely would have written Matt. 'Frood needs a chill pill.
alternatively, you could have commented in the existing MetaTalk thread.
posted by DBAPaul at 7:38 AM on September 10, 2002
I came over here to see if there was a thread. I'm not sure I would have started one, but if this weren't here, I likely would have written Matt. 'Frood needs a chill pill.
alternatively, you could have commented in the existing MetaTalk thread.
posted by DBAPaul at 7:38 AM on September 10, 2002
alternatively, you could have commented in the existing MetaTalk thread.
True, though that's become mostly about spelling at this point, and it wasn't all that clear that it was about 'frood to begin with.
Though I admit when I first posted to this thread, I thought it was about his continuing nastiness.
posted by frykitty at 7:43 AM on September 10, 2002
True, though that's become mostly about spelling at this point, and it wasn't all that clear that it was about 'frood to begin with.
Though I admit when I first posted to this thread, I thought it was about his continuing nastiness.
posted by frykitty at 7:43 AM on September 10, 2002
DBAPaul, I disagree. There was (is?) a lack of focus in that former thread that lead to a more general discussion. This post is specifically about HF's behavior.
I realize that HF has his shorts in a knot right now, but it was about something specific (the spelling call-out) and time might have a chilling effect. I think a lot of floks are running hyper-defensive right now.
posted by Wulfgar! at 7:45 AM on September 10, 2002
I realize that HF has his shorts in a knot right now, but it was about something specific (the spelling call-out) and time might have a chilling effect. I think a lot of floks are running hyper-defensive right now.
posted by Wulfgar! at 7:45 AM on September 10, 2002
You sass that hoopy YHBC? Now there's a frood who knew where his towel was.
posted by ColdChef at 7:51 AM on September 10, 2002
posted by ColdChef at 7:51 AM on September 10, 2002
Good lord, where's my towel!!!
The floks took it. Stupid floks.
posted by iceberg273 at 8:29 AM on September 10, 2002
The floks took it. Stupid floks.
posted by iceberg273 at 8:29 AM on September 10, 2002
A towel is about the most massively useful thing an interstellar hitchhiker can have. Partly it has great practical value - you can wrap it around you for warmth as you bound across the cold moons of Jaglan Beta; you can lie on it on the brilliant marble-sanded beaches of Santraginus V, inhaling the heady sea vapours; you can sleep under it beneath the stars which shine soredly on the desert world of Kakrafoon; use it to sail a mini raft down the slow heavy river Moth; wet it for use in hand-to-hand-combat; wrap it round your head to ward off noxious fumes or to avoid the gaze of the Ravenous Bugblatter Beast of Traal (a mindboggingly stupid animal, it assumes that if you can't see it, it can't see you - daft as a brush, but very ravenous); you can wave your towel in emergencies as a distress signal, and of course dry yourself off with it if it still seems to be clean enough.
more at the Towel Day page
posted by gen at 8:36 AM on September 10, 2002
more at the Towel Day page
posted by gen at 8:36 AM on September 10, 2002
Sigh. I probably shouldn't say anything, but I'm gonna.
It's this: it fills me with disappointment when meta posts degenerate into chatter. I keenly regret any noise I've posted in the past, and I hope never, ever to do so again. This just isn't the place.
posted by frykitty at 8:44 AM on September 10, 2002
It's this: it fills me with disappointment when meta posts degenerate into chatter. I keenly regret any noise I've posted in the past, and I hope never, ever to do so again. This just isn't the place.
posted by frykitty at 8:44 AM on September 10, 2002
It's that name. Since the 'Oscar the Grouch' comparison I have been cracking up.
God bless mommy, and daddy
and oh yeah! God bless Hoopyfrood.
posted by Frasermoo at 8:50 AM on September 10, 2002
God bless mommy, and daddy
and oh yeah! God bless Hoopyfrood.
posted by Frasermoo at 8:50 AM on September 10, 2002
"floks"? Sorry folks.
Hey Wulfgar! Aren't you "someone who doesn't give one whit about spelling or proper English in a discussion forum"?
posted by timeistight at 8:50 AM on September 10, 2002
Hey Wulfgar! Aren't you "someone who doesn't give one whit about spelling or proper English in a discussion forum"?
posted by timeistight at 8:50 AM on September 10, 2002
Let me amend that; I don't much care about another's spelling or grammar. If I catch my own mistakes, well there you go.
posted by Wulfgar! at 8:57 AM on September 10, 2002
posted by Wulfgar! at 8:57 AM on September 10, 2002
i have read through all of hoopyfrood's comments and they are not all that bad. in fact he puts forward some very good comments about some very touchy subjects which is more than some of us do. so as i said earlier this was not worth a call out. it's just typical of the whining baby sh*t that is increasingly going on here.
there. start a MetaTalk thread about me now.
posted by Frasermoo at 9:00 AM on September 10, 2002
there. start a MetaTalk thread about me now.
posted by Frasermoo at 9:00 AM on September 10, 2002
Tapping on the glass. Me loves the Quonsar.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 9:05 AM on September 10, 2002
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 9:05 AM on September 10, 2002
so as i said earlier this was not worth a call out.
Interesting tactic. If no one agrees with you, return to the thread later and say the same thing with stronger language.
Who's whining?
posted by frykitty at 9:05 AM on September 10, 2002
Interesting tactic. If no one agrees with you, return to the thread later and say the same thing with stronger language.
Who's whining?
posted by frykitty at 9:05 AM on September 10, 2002
the only person on this thread who cares frykitty seems to be you. and you are really only concerned about the 'static'
i say the static has arisen from the fact there is nothing worthy in this post. i have 2-1 Matt deletes it and if he doesn't it's because only now it might have some Meta Talk relevance.
PS - I don't employ tactics, but I am flattered you imply I do. Really I am not that calculated.
posted by Frasermoo at 9:12 AM on September 10, 2002
i say the static has arisen from the fact there is nothing worthy in this post. i have 2-1 Matt deletes it and if he doesn't it's because only now it might have some Meta Talk relevance.
PS - I don't employ tactics, but I am flattered you imply I do. Really I am not that calculated.
posted by Frasermoo at 9:12 AM on September 10, 2002
I agree with Frasermoo, but its just been such a dumb sophmoric topic to even complain about in my opinion that I've refrained from commenting. Could we at least give the guy a chance to prove his spelling prowless after a history of links instead of jumping on his first one? And disregard his understandable reaction to the assholes who keep picking at him for it?
posted by Stan Chin at 9:13 AM on September 10, 2002
posted by Stan Chin at 9:13 AM on September 10, 2002
the only person on this thread who cares frykitty seems to be you. and you are really only concerned about the 'static'
And Irontom and Wulfgar.
My static comment comes from seeing many meta posts go this way. My feeling is that if something isn't worth commenting on: don't.
posted by frykitty at 9:17 AM on September 10, 2002
And Irontom and Wulfgar.
My static comment comes from seeing many meta posts go this way. My feeling is that if something isn't worth commenting on: don't.
posted by frykitty at 9:17 AM on September 10, 2002
Frasermoo:
i have read through all of hoopyfrood's comments and they are not all that bad. in fact he puts forward some very good comments about some very touchy subjects which is more than some of us do.
what's good about them? since you accuse these people here of "whining baby sh*t", there must be something to hoopy's comments.
posted by moz at 9:19 AM on September 10, 2002
i have read through all of hoopyfrood's comments and they are not all that bad. in fact he puts forward some very good comments about some very touchy subjects which is more than some of us do.
what's good about them? since you accuse these people here of "whining baby sh*t", there must be something to hoopy's comments.
posted by moz at 9:19 AM on September 10, 2002
Could we at least give the guy a chance to prove his spelling prowless after a history of links instead of jumping on his first one? And disregard his understandable reaction to the assholes who keep picking at him for it?
Stan--for all that you might want to see the other thread.
Sure, spelling is important, but not so much that I'd call someone out on it. It was his initial reaction that got everyone up in arms. Okay, it was meta'd, no big.
But then he did it again? When no one had said a damned thing? Jeeze. That's what made me shake my head and come in here.
posted by frykitty at 9:21 AM on September 10, 2002
Stan--for all that you might want to see the other thread.
Sure, spelling is important, but not so much that I'd call someone out on it. It was his initial reaction that got everyone up in arms. Okay, it was meta'd, no big.
But then he did it again? When no one had said a damned thing? Jeeze. That's what made me shake my head and come in here.
posted by frykitty at 9:21 AM on September 10, 2002
Him I picture in a big dark leather chair in a wood-paneled room, wearing a smoking jacket and sipping cognac.
Add a well-oiled serving male clad only in a soft leather loincloth and you've got my image of evanizer.
Damn I envy my fantasy image of him.
posted by WolfDaddy at 9:26 AM on September 10, 2002
Add a well-oiled serving male clad only in a soft leather loincloth and you've got my image of evanizer.
Damn I envy my fantasy image of him.
posted by WolfDaddy at 9:26 AM on September 10, 2002
*Glances over the other thread*
Wow, that's one dead horse.
posted by Stan Chin at 9:41 AM on September 10, 2002
Wow, that's one dead horse.
posted by Stan Chin at 9:41 AM on September 10, 2002
*Glances over the other thread*
Wow, that's one dead horse.
Oh yeah. I just meant to check for discussion of your points. Not much left to say over there.
posted by frykitty at 9:47 AM on September 10, 2002
Wow, that's one dead horse.
Oh yeah. I just meant to check for discussion of your points. Not much left to say over there.
posted by frykitty at 9:47 AM on September 10, 2002
it fills me with disappointment when meta posts degenerate into chatter
Seven comments in a single thread = chatter.
On preview: Eight comments in a single thread = chatter.
posted by Shadowkeeper at 10:02 AM on September 10, 2002
Seven comments in a single thread = chatter.
On preview: Eight comments in a single thread = chatter.
posted by Shadowkeeper at 10:02 AM on September 10, 2002
(Ack -- I'm contributing to the snarkification of MetaFilter -- whatta hypocrite. I rescind my previous comment and apologize to you, frykitty.)
posted by Shadowkeeper at 10:08 AM on September 10, 2002
posted by Shadowkeeper at 10:08 AM on September 10, 2002
Again.. a thread derailed because some self important person had to make a comment about someone else's spelling instead of taking it offline somehow.
posted by rich at 10:09 AM on September 10, 2002
posted by rich at 10:09 AM on September 10, 2002
I find it difficult to follow Hoopyfrood not just because of spelling (s/he did improve his or her spelling -- just one typo!), but because of lack of punctuation, capitalization. We all make occassional errors, but consistent errors make it really difficult to understand the tone and point of a comment or post.
Clav is still the king of most difficult to interpret, though.
Oh, and calling people asswipe is just going to cause them to jump on your case even more when you make spelling/grammar/punctuation errors.
posted by jennak at 10:16 AM on September 10, 2002
Clav is still the king of most difficult to interpret, though.
Oh, and calling people asswipe is just going to cause them to jump on your case even more when you make spelling/grammar/punctuation errors.
posted by jennak at 10:16 AM on September 10, 2002
MetaFilter: contributing to the snarkification of the Internet
posted by gen at 10:17 AM on September 10, 2002
posted by gen at 10:17 AM on September 10, 2002
"OFF TOPIC ummm...okay guess I was feeling bitter this morning. I don't claim to know anything about system security other than realizing the need for a firewall and knowing that im too absent minded to be constantly fooling with my settings ...as far as editing off site if I wanted to compose term papers id go back to school..."
Looks like somebody was feeling a bit contrite. Not much, but some.
posted by Irontom at 11:09 AM on September 10, 2002
Looks like somebody was feeling a bit contrite. Not much, but some.
posted by Irontom at 11:09 AM on September 10, 2002
It's a matter of personal opinion, really. You might think spelling is important, you might not. A polite suggestion might be in order since if it's on the front page it does reflect on the community, but it kinda smacks of those people who are upset that "the damn Jonses haven't cut their grass in two weeks!" That is to say, who cares as long as your yard/house looks ok.
And if the poor spelling makes it hard to interpret what the person is saying, you could always ask him what he meant. Or if you know and don't think it's clear enough, you could always post a cleaner, more precise version of what you see the thread as or what you'd like to discuss from the links. It's the link that matters anyway, right?
Down with a MeFi dress-code, I say! Casual (not flash) fridays every day!
posted by The God Complex at 11:09 AM on September 10, 2002
And if the poor spelling makes it hard to interpret what the person is saying, you could always ask him what he meant. Or if you know and don't think it's clear enough, you could always post a cleaner, more precise version of what you see the thread as or what you'd like to discuss from the links. It's the link that matters anyway, right?
Down with a MeFi dress-code, I say! Casual (not flash) fridays every day!
posted by The God Complex at 11:09 AM on September 10, 2002
I'm with frykitty. I think blatant indifference to spelling is obnoxious (though not in itself worth a MeTa callout), but hoopyfrood's repeatedly insulting reactions definitely deserved winding up here.
I also agree about the chatter. A passing joke is fun, but when nobody can let go of it and it derails the thread... but what's the point? There's no stopping the jokesters.
posted by languagehat at 11:54 AM on September 10, 2002
I also agree about the chatter. A passing joke is fun, but when nobody can let go of it and it derails the thread... but what's the point? There's no stopping the jokesters.
posted by languagehat at 11:54 AM on September 10, 2002
The correct place to make polite suggestions to MetaFilter members is not within the thread, and not within MetaTalk, but via e-mail. If said user deliberate fails to provide an e-mail address in their profile, the person making the suggestion has little choice but to ask the other member in-thread (as this doesn't warrant MetaTalk post.)
If, however, that person reacts violently and like a child, without taking a moment to reflect upon said polite suggestion, they should be admonished like a child.
I grow weary of this petulant "I'm new here, and can do whatever the hell I want, regardless of the consequences or the conventions of the community in which I'm participating!" attitude. It seems that some new members pay no heed to the fact that this site had three years and 14,000+ members under its belt before they showed up to vent their spleens.
posted by Danelope at 12:51 PM on September 10, 2002
If, however, that person reacts violently and like a child, without taking a moment to reflect upon said polite suggestion, they should be admonished like a child.
I grow weary of this petulant "I'm new here, and can do whatever the hell I want, regardless of the consequences or the conventions of the community in which I'm participating!" attitude. It seems that some new members pay no heed to the fact that this site had three years and 14,000+ members under its belt before they showed up to vent their spleens.
posted by Danelope at 12:51 PM on September 10, 2002
I see nothing wrong with the linked comments from hoopyfrood.
Just my opinion.
posted by y6y6y6 at 12:59 PM on September 10, 2002
Just my opinion.
posted by y6y6y6 at 12:59 PM on September 10, 2002
Except for Miguel. Him I picture in a big dark leather chair in a wood-paneled room, wearing a smoking jacket and sipping cognac.
I picture Miguel wearing a Saville Row suit and a gold and diamond signet ring in a crumbling colonial palace. He's drinking ice-cold daquiris and smoking Sobranie Black Russians, while outside the rebels take the city.
Not that I think about these things.
posted by Summer at 1:51 PM on September 10, 2002
I picture Miguel wearing a Saville Row suit and a gold and diamond signet ring in a crumbling colonial palace. He's drinking ice-cold daquiris and smoking Sobranie Black Russians, while outside the rebels take the city.
Not that I think about these things.
posted by Summer at 1:51 PM on September 10, 2002
It has always been my understanding that it was poor netiquette to comment on someone's spelling or grammar errors. Am I wrong?
posted by konolia at 2:14 PM on September 10, 2002
posted by konolia at 2:14 PM on September 10, 2002
"Am I wrong?"
No. You are correct. But not on Metafilter, because we are suppose to be better than everyone else. We project a clean, polished image that impresses everyone who comes here. All the reviews mention this.
Newsweek - "Metafilter is such a breath of fresh air. Unlike other crappy websites, people here obviously take the extra time to spell properly."
CNN - "What impressed me most was the way people pointed out the spelling and grammar errors in almost every single thread. Hopefully we'll start seeing more of this. Pointing out spelling errors is a sign of quality."
posted by y6y6y6 at 2:51 PM on September 10, 2002
No. You are correct. But not on Metafilter, because we are suppose to be better than everyone else. We project a clean, polished image that impresses everyone who comes here. All the reviews mention this.
Newsweek - "Metafilter is such a breath of fresh air. Unlike other crappy websites, people here obviously take the extra time to spell properly."
CNN - "What impressed me most was the way people pointed out the spelling and grammar errors in almost every single thread. Hopefully we'll start seeing more of this. Pointing out spelling errors is a sign of quality."
posted by y6y6y6 at 2:51 PM on September 10, 2002
It's proper etiquette anywhere to check your spelling and grammar. That's if you care about being understood. People are always going to make mistakes, but you should at least try. If the spell checker doesn't work, try next-best option of reading it through.
posted by Summer at 3:03 PM on September 10, 2002
posted by Summer at 3:03 PM on September 10, 2002
Okay, okay, okay. I will no longer point out anyone's errors of spelling or grammar, no matter how funny they are. And I promise not to call you names when you point out one of my frequent errors.
We've had four or five MetaTalk threads arguing about this over the last couple of weeks without changing anyone's mind on either side. I hope we're done soon.
posted by timeistight at 3:03 PM on September 10, 2002
We've had four or five MetaTalk threads arguing about this over the last couple of weeks without changing anyone's mind on either side. I hope we're done soon.
posted by timeistight at 3:03 PM on September 10, 2002
Though my request was posted in another thread, I would still like to see examples of a case where someone was not clearly understood because of spelling. Since we have many here to whom English is a second language, I can see the case where one's grammar leads to misunderstanding. It seems far more the case that when MeFi commentors are misunderstood, it is caused by another's unwillingness to read or accept what has been written. I remain convinced that spelling is a small matter.
If there are those who still hold tightly to the belief that spelling and grammar equate to quality of reason, and thereby this website, I propose this:
For the next week, any time someone makes an error of spelling, point it out in the thread, and garner a point. One point for each spelling error is certainly sufficient. If they make an error in grammar, and you are the sharp eye that catches this immoral behavior, then claim for yourself two points. If the commentor who is challenged takes offense, and posts a response of the nature "get off my back, asswipe!" then the point taker can claim a further five points. If, however, someone catches a point-taker in a spelling or grammatical error while claiming the point, then let that person take ten points. After this week, let's see who has the most points and declare them "snark-free" for the remainder of their time at MetaFilter.
On second thought let's not do this. It would kill the site in very short order, don't you think?
One further point I would like to add; if anybody were so crass as to email me to let me know that I had misspelled "hypocrisy" on MetaFilter, I would be deeply offended and think them a small-minded fool obsessed with minutia. After all, folks, this isn't a pissing match here, right?
posted by Wulfgar! at 3:29 PM on September 10, 2002
If there are those who still hold tightly to the belief that spelling and grammar equate to quality of reason, and thereby this website, I propose this:
For the next week, any time someone makes an error of spelling, point it out in the thread, and garner a point. One point for each spelling error is certainly sufficient. If they make an error in grammar, and you are the sharp eye that catches this immoral behavior, then claim for yourself two points. If the commentor who is challenged takes offense, and posts a response of the nature "get off my back, asswipe!" then the point taker can claim a further five points. If, however, someone catches a point-taker in a spelling or grammatical error while claiming the point, then let that person take ten points. After this week, let's see who has the most points and declare them "snark-free" for the remainder of their time at MetaFilter.
On second thought let's not do this. It would kill the site in very short order, don't you think?
One further point I would like to add; if anybody were so crass as to email me to let me know that I had misspelled "hypocrisy" on MetaFilter, I would be deeply offended and think them a small-minded fool obsessed with minutia. After all, folks, this isn't a pissing match here, right?
posted by Wulfgar! at 3:29 PM on September 10, 2002
Geez, y63, you say that like it's a bad thing or something.
posted by adampsyche at 3:39 PM on September 10, 2002
posted by adampsyche at 3:39 PM on September 10, 2002
For the next week, any time someone makes an error of spelling, point it out in the thread, and garner a point. One point for each spelling error is certainly sufficient. If they make an error in grammar, and you are the sharp eye that catches this immoral behavior, then claim for yourself two points. If the commentor who is challenged takes offense, and posts a response of the nature "get off my back, asswipe!" then the point taker can claim a further five points. If, however, someone catches a point-taker in a spelling or grammatical error while claiming the point, then let that person take ten points. After this week, let's see who has the most points and declare them "snark-free" for the remainder of their time at MetaFilter.
I'm pretty sure ass wipe is two words.
posted by Kafkaesque at 3:52 PM on September 10, 2002
I'm pretty sure ass wipe is two words.
posted by Kafkaesque at 3:52 PM on September 10, 2002
Sheesh!
More red herrings in here than in a Communist smokehouse.
'"ps to all the "spell check" asswipes I have compromised my systems security to please you now go away."....hoopyfrood is making friends and influencing people all over the place'
This thread - the one we are commenting in - is about hoopyfrood's attitude & language.
That was first picked up over here, when it was also preceived as a comment on hoopyfrood's spelling.
It's not. OK? It's not OK. To talk to each other like that. How on earth do people learn, if not by gentle encouragement to abide by our norms and standards. Don't wait for The Big Cheese to come and tell you: own it.
posted by dash_slot- at 3:56 PM on September 10, 2002
More red herrings in here than in a Communist smokehouse.
'"ps to all the "spell check" asswipes I have compromised my systems security to please you now go away."....hoopyfrood is making friends and influencing people all over the place'
This thread - the one we are commenting in - is about hoopyfrood's attitude & language.
That was first picked up over here, when it was also preceived as a comment on hoopyfrood's spelling.
It's not. OK? It's not OK. To talk to each other like that. How on earth do people learn, if not by gentle encouragement to abide by our norms and standards. Don't wait for The Big Cheese to come and tell you: own it.
posted by dash_slot- at 3:56 PM on September 10, 2002
Two points to Kafkaesque. Does anybody else care to play?
(Face it; the jokers are gonna win this sucka 'cause they ain't gonna deal with the proper spell-ass crap.)
posted by Wulfgar! at 4:02 PM on September 10, 2002
(Face it; the jokers are gonna win this sucka 'cause they ain't gonna deal with the proper spell-ass crap.)
posted by Wulfgar! at 4:02 PM on September 10, 2002
It's not about the spelling.
posted by dash_slot- at 4:05 PM on September 10, 2002
posted by dash_slot- at 4:05 PM on September 10, 2002
And by the way, Kafkaesque: I'm pretty sure that "asswipe" is two words. That is ten points for me.
posted by Wulfgar! at 4:05 PM on September 10, 2002
posted by Wulfgar! at 4:05 PM on September 10, 2002
It's not about the grammar.
posted by dash_slot- at 4:05 PM on September 10, 2002
posted by dash_slot- at 4:05 PM on September 10, 2002
I would still like to see examples of a case where someone was not clearly understood because of spelling
Without polling every member of Mefi how would you know? I'm not in favour of calling people out about their writing prowess but it does matter. There have been occassions when I've had to re-read things several times here because the paragraph hasn't been constructed properly or because bad spelling really did get in the way of meaning (did someone here spell does 'do's' recently?). I'm probably guilty myself but I do try and check things twice. Having said that, Mefi is far, far better than most blogs/forums when it comes to spelling/grammar/general intelligence.
posted by Summer at 4:06 PM on September 10, 2002
Without polling every member of Mefi how would you know? I'm not in favour of calling people out about their writing prowess but it does matter. There have been occassions when I've had to re-read things several times here because the paragraph hasn't been constructed properly or because bad spelling really did get in the way of meaning (did someone here spell does 'do's' recently?). I'm probably guilty myself but I do try and check things twice. Having said that, Mefi is far, far better than most blogs/forums when it comes to spelling/grammar/general intelligence.
posted by Summer at 4:06 PM on September 10, 2002
It's not about petty calling out.
posted by dash_slot- at 4:07 PM on September 10, 2002
posted by dash_slot- at 4:07 PM on September 10, 2002
It's not about general intelligence.
posted by dash_slot- at 4:07 PM on September 10, 2002
posted by dash_slot- at 4:07 PM on September 10, 2002
It's not about the grammar.
or grandpa either. and leave my family outta this.
posted by jonmc at 4:09 PM on September 10, 2002
or grandpa either. and leave my family outta this.
posted by jonmc at 4:09 PM on September 10, 2002
It's not about H2G2 references.
posted by dash_slot- at 4:10 PM on September 10, 2002
posted by dash_slot- at 4:10 PM on September 10, 2002
CNN: Pointing out spelling errors is a sign of quality.
MSNBC: Yeah, well, where the hell were you then?
MetaFilter: More red herrings in here than in a Communist smokehouse.
posted by WolfDaddy at 4:20 PM on September 10, 2002
MSNBC: Yeah, well, where the hell were you then?
MetaFilter: More red herrings in here than in a Communist smokehouse.
posted by WolfDaddy at 4:20 PM on September 10, 2002
MetaTalk is a discussion area for topics specific to MetaFilter itself, ranging from bug reports to feature requests to questions of content, the posts are sorted by date, and tagged by category .
It's about how we talk to each other, remotely & yet intimately, in a dedicated space, as peers & members of a unique society.
Is that so difficult to understand?
posted by dash_slot- at 4:21 PM on September 10, 2002
It's about how we talk to each other, remotely & yet intimately, in a dedicated space, as peers & members of a unique society.
Is that so difficult to understand?
posted by dash_slot- at 4:21 PM on September 10, 2002
dash_slot-, I don't think we're really in disagreement. But, you certainly get the point that for each person who calls someone else out for having violated a rule of English grammar, there is one more comment that chokes the site for no damn reason. hoopyfrood was out of line; I don't think any would really argue that. But, out of line with what is the question. I think he was out of line with the expectations of other members, not the expectations of the site, or at least he wasn't aware that he was. If Matt emails him and says "don't do it again", then I have no problem. But, if its not about general intelligence, then what is it about, I wonder. Consistant call-outs for meaningless stuff reflect the very heart of the call-out, and damage the site more than a spelling error ever could do.
Summer, I've only asked for examples, not a polling of the populace. Is that so hard? You claim to have them, so let us see them.
p.s. I claim seventy more points for dash_slot- comments, as well as jonmc's comment.
posted by Wulfgar! at 4:26 PM on September 10, 2002
Summer, I've only asked for examples, not a polling of the populace. Is that so hard? You claim to have them, so let us see them.
p.s. I claim seventy more points for dash_slot- comments, as well as jonmc's comment.
posted by Wulfgar! at 4:26 PM on September 10, 2002
That is ten points for me.
You get all the points. It's your show. The question is moot.
Build a purple fort out of 'em. Or save 'em for the Harrier Jet.
As a matter of fact, just declare yourself Seurat and have done with it.
And we'll just ignore the fact that your very name is grammatically questionable and sounds like something a Norwegian insect would cry as it was squished under a pair of apres-ski boots.
posted by Kafkaesque at 4:32 PM on September 10, 2002
You get all the points. It's your show. The question is moot.
Build a purple fort out of 'em. Or save 'em for the Harrier Jet.
As a matter of fact, just declare yourself Seurat and have done with it.
And we'll just ignore the fact that your very name is grammatically questionable and sounds like something a Norwegian insect would cry as it was squished under a pair of apres-ski boots.
posted by Kafkaesque at 4:32 PM on September 10, 2002
You don't put yr email on yr user page, Wulfie. I can't expand much beyond what i've said, which boils down to: mutual respect. That was shown in one side of the original interaction, and egregiously absent in the other. It was compounded without cause shortly after in a different thread, even: talk about O/T.
Stand up for the abused (which in this example, is every reader), not the thin skinned who can't take a hint. Just sayin'.
(PS: am I "a point-taker in a spelling or grammatical error" type of way? Where?)
posted by dash_slot- at 4:38 PM on September 10, 2002
Stand up for the abused (which in this example, is every reader), not the thin skinned who can't take a hint. Just sayin'.
(PS: am I "a point-taker in a spelling or grammatical error" type of way? Where?)
posted by dash_slot- at 4:38 PM on September 10, 2002
I can't expand much beyond what i've said, which boils down to: mutual respect.
I was talking to another MeFite about this recently, and used almost the exact same phrase. Common courtest goes a long way.
posted by Kafkaesque at 4:43 PM on September 10, 2002
I was talking to another MeFite about this recently, and used almost the exact same phrase. Common courtest goes a long way.
posted by Kafkaesque at 4:43 PM on September 10, 2002
hahaha
*hoo boy*
courtesy also goes a long way.
posted by Kafkaesque at 4:44 PM on September 10, 2002
*hoo boy*
courtesy also goes a long way.
posted by Kafkaesque at 4:44 PM on September 10, 2002
Kafkaesque, did I strike a nerve with your ever-so-joking self? We came here to discuss the insulting behavior of a person who was offended by a call to correct his spelling. How, then, have I offended you by asking that we make a public show of these corrections? How is it my "show" in the public jailhouse of MetaTalk? Since we're about reason here, what, exactly, has you annoyed about what I've written?
The question isn't moot. Are we all about spelling and grammar, or are we about the reasoned discussion. That's all I want to know. Your sad disdain will not deter me from an attempt to find out.
posted by Wulfgar! at 4:47 PM on September 10, 2002
The question isn't moot. Are we all about spelling and grammar, or are we about the reasoned discussion. That's all I want to know. Your sad disdain will not deter me from an attempt to find out.
posted by Wulfgar! at 4:47 PM on September 10, 2002
You don't put yr email on yr user page, Wulfie.
Speaking of courtesy, I have to wonder why so many are just absolutely in a dither over my username? Its Wulfgar, not Wulfie. Call me Wulf if you have a hard time typing. Call me asshole if you really think so. But to call me Wulfie is a back-handed attempt at juvenile insult, and undermines the highbrow moral fortitude being displayed by those in this thread who would do such a cheap thing.
posted by Wulfgar! at 4:52 PM on September 10, 2002
Speaking of courtesy, I have to wonder why so many are just absolutely in a dither over my username? Its Wulfgar, not Wulfie. Call me Wulf if you have a hard time typing. Call me asshole if you really think so. But to call me Wulfie is a back-handed attempt at juvenile insult, and undermines the highbrow moral fortitude being displayed by those in this thread who would do such a cheap thing.
posted by Wulfgar! at 4:52 PM on September 10, 2002
And, for clarification beyond what is deserved, I don't put my email up because I was porn-spammed from this site. If you wish further clarification, talk to skallas.
posted by Wulfgar! at 4:54 PM on September 10, 2002
posted by Wulfgar! at 4:54 PM on September 10, 2002
courtesy also goes a long way
Right out the door, most times.
MetaTalk is a discussion area for topics specific to MetaFilter itself, ranging from bug reports to feature requests to questions of content, the posts are sorted by date, tagged by category, beaten to death and strung up on poles to discourage outsiders.
I'm totally kidding - I think MeTa is both immensely valuable to the quality of MeFi and hilarious.
posted by Nicolae Carpathia at 4:57 PM on September 10, 2002
Right out the door, most times.
MetaTalk is a discussion area for topics specific to MetaFilter itself, ranging from bug reports to feature requests to questions of content, the posts are sorted by date, tagged by category, beaten to death and strung up on poles to discourage outsiders.
I'm totally kidding - I think MeTa is both immensely valuable to the quality of MeFi and hilarious.
posted by Nicolae Carpathia at 4:57 PM on September 10, 2002
Wulfgar!, I was kidding.
"The Question Is Moot. It's My Show!" was from an old SNL with Jesse Jackson. Sorry for the obscurity.
Since we're about reason here, what, exactly, has you annoyed about what I've written?
Nothing. You just seem so worked up. I thought you'd know I was poking you. Probably shouldn't have.
And "Wulfy" is cute, don't you think? I don't mean it in the diminutive. If you and I were hanging out at a chili cook-off or something, I would probably call you Wulfy because it's familiar.
But, if you want us not to call you that, I'll respect your wishes.
posted by Kafkaesque at 4:59 PM on September 10, 2002
"The Question Is Moot. It's My Show!" was from an old SNL with Jesse Jackson. Sorry for the obscurity.
Since we're about reason here, what, exactly, has you annoyed about what I've written?
Nothing. You just seem so worked up. I thought you'd know I was poking you. Probably shouldn't have.
And "Wulfy" is cute, don't you think? I don't mean it in the diminutive. If you and I were hanging out at a chili cook-off or something, I would probably call you Wulfy because it's familiar.
But, if you want us not to call you that, I'll respect your wishes.
posted by Kafkaesque at 4:59 PM on September 10, 2002
I missed the reference, and I'm sorry. I actually have friends that call me "Wulfy", but I never forget that its a chide. In this forum, I have a difficult time trusting motive.
posted by Wulfgar! at 5:02 PM on September 10, 2002
posted by Wulfgar! at 5:02 PM on September 10, 2002
Same here, Wulfgar! I was not attempting "a back-handed attempt at juvenile insult",nor a "chide". That's just friendly familiarity between members. I've abbreviated loads of people's names, it's common on this side of the pond. I'll not make the same mistake with you again.
As for your email, Yahoo & Hotmail - amongst many - have disposable email accounts, the benefits there outweigh the risks, if you ask me.
Cheers, mate!
posted by dash_slot- at 5:07 PM on September 10, 2002
As for your email, Yahoo & Hotmail - amongst many - have disposable email accounts, the benefits there outweigh the risks, if you ask me.
Cheers, mate!
posted by dash_slot- at 5:07 PM on September 10, 2002
I propose a forced march upon the temple of Thesarus, he just mimicks all. day. long.
(and i say we wrap it up at 'Antonymns on the Capitoline', next to Turabian aquaduct)
posted by clavdivs at 5:44 PM on September 10, 2002
(and i say we wrap it up at 'Antonymns on the Capitoline', next to Turabian aquaduct)
posted by clavdivs at 5:44 PM on September 10, 2002
You guys crack me up.
posted by adampsyche at 6:48 PM on September 10, 2002
posted by adampsyche at 6:48 PM on September 10, 2002
BTW, Wulfgar!, is that a reference to skallas's foreknowledge of, or responsibility for, the porn-spamming?
posted by dash_slot- at 8:26 PM on September 10, 2002
posted by dash_slot- at 8:26 PM on September 10, 2002
Summer, I've only asked for examples, not a polling of the populace. Is that so hard? You claim to have them, so let us see them.
Wulfgar! I really can't. It would take me days to search through all the threads again. But come on, you must recognise that some people don't write coherent sentences. I'm not saying that the standard of writing on Mefi is poor- it isn't - just that it matters.
posted by Summer at 4:07 AM on September 11, 2002
Wulfgar! I really can't. It would take me days to search through all the threads again. But come on, you must recognise that some people don't write coherent sentences. I'm not saying that the standard of writing on Mefi is poor- it isn't - just that it matters.
posted by Summer at 4:07 AM on September 11, 2002
BTW, Wulfgar!, is that a reference to skallas's foreknowledge of, or responsibility for, the porn-spamming?
I was going to scrupulously avoid commenting on Meta-anything today, but I felt I should clarify this. skallas was also porn-spammed, but was able to track the spammer back to that one's Mefi account. For that alone, skallas is my hero.
posted by Wulfgar! at 6:32 AM on September 11, 2002
I was going to scrupulously avoid commenting on Meta-anything today, but I felt I should clarify this. skallas was also porn-spammed, but was able to track the spammer back to that one's Mefi account. For that alone, skallas is my hero.
posted by Wulfgar! at 6:32 AM on September 11, 2002
"I'm not saying that the standard of writing on Mefi is poor- it isn't - just that it matters."
No. It doesn't.
Metafilter is growing and thriving, perhaps more than is healthy. Journalists use it as a resource. Thousands of people read it daily, if not hourly.
A better "standard of writing" would not improve the site's value to these people. And a lower standard wouldn't hurt the value. You like metafilter, yes? You became a member and continue to post even with the spelling errors, yes?
The theory that it matters is total bunk and is wholly made up in your mind. It is completely refuted by the facts. You, sir, are wrong.
On the other hand, worthless and ego-enriching jabs at spelling *do* hurt the value of Metafilter. They derail threads, cause needless bickering, and make us look like squabbling children.
It matters to you. Fine. Consider it noted. Now please stop trying to pound the square peg into the round hole. It doesn't matter.
posted by y6y6y6 at 7:43 AM on September 11, 2002
No. It doesn't.
Metafilter is growing and thriving, perhaps more than is healthy. Journalists use it as a resource. Thousands of people read it daily, if not hourly.
A better "standard of writing" would not improve the site's value to these people. And a lower standard wouldn't hurt the value. You like metafilter, yes? You became a member and continue to post even with the spelling errors, yes?
The theory that it matters is total bunk and is wholly made up in your mind. It is completely refuted by the facts. You, sir, are wrong.
On the other hand, worthless and ego-enriching jabs at spelling *do* hurt the value of Metafilter. They derail threads, cause needless bickering, and make us look like squabbling children.
It matters to you. Fine. Consider it noted. Now please stop trying to pound the square peg into the round hole. It doesn't matter.
posted by y6y6y6 at 7:43 AM on September 11, 2002
y6: It doesn't matter to you (and others). It matters to me (and others). That doesn't make either of us wrong. It's like a messy room. It bothers some, doesn't bother others. But people who live in the same house have to deal with the issue. Saying The theory that it matters is total bunk and is wholly made up in your mind is wrong and counterproductive.
And, as dash_slot keeps trying to say, it's not about the spelling anyway. It's about trying to be civil with each other (which does not mean agreeing with each other).
posted by languagehat at 1:58 PM on September 11, 2002
And, as dash_slot keeps trying to say, it's not about the spelling anyway. It's about trying to be civil with each other (which does not mean agreeing with each other).
posted by languagehat at 1:58 PM on September 11, 2002
You, sir, are wrong.
Ta for that. A bit of checking would have revealed that I am of the female persuasion, not that accuracy matters.
posted by Summer at 2:28 PM on September 11, 2002
Ta for that. A bit of checking would have revealed that I am of the female persuasion, not that accuracy matters.
posted by Summer at 2:28 PM on September 11, 2002
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posted by Frasermoo at 7:06 AM on September 10, 2002