Shoutout: newsfilter thread goes big March 9, 2003 12:32 AM Subscribe
is this thread an argument in favor of "newsfilter" posts? - jackflash hits the ball out of the park with his incidental posts.
I think the thread is an argument in favor of well-written, informed posts. Whether or not it's an argument for newsfilter, or if that argument is even still open, I don't know.
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 1:30 AM on March 9, 2003
posted by Yelling At Nothing at 1:30 AM on March 9, 2003
In a about an hour I'm gonna take jackflashes comment (as of last nite) down a few notches.
as a side note, for now, Jackflashes grammar and delivery and to some extent, the long lession on the differences between uranium and plutonium is good.
posted by clavdivs at 8:22 AM on March 9, 2003
as a side note, for now, Jackflashes grammar and delivery and to some extent, the long lession on the differences between uranium and plutonium is good.
posted by clavdivs at 8:22 AM on March 9, 2003
"is this thread an argument in favor of "newsfilter" posts?"
No. It's another snarky slap fight. It's bitchy and mean and no one changes their mind.
As to the JackFlash comment, I'm with SWC on that one.
posted by y6y6y6 at 9:33 AM on March 9, 2003
No. It's another snarky slap fight. It's bitchy and mean and no one changes their mind.
As to the JackFlash comment, I'm with SWC on that one.
posted by y6y6y6 at 9:33 AM on March 9, 2003
that sounded like a jackass...sorry. But i believe migs is saying that a discussion, on political matters is very possible on MeFi. What is key is not to bluster and foil and yell and name call. All charges for which i am guilty of. The real beauty is to admit wrong or concede a point or stick to ones position. MeFi needs posters like jack flash if it is to emerge into the realm of "not just a blog". People who take time to state a point.
that= me, not Y6
posted by clavdivs at 9:37 AM on March 9, 2003
that= me, not Y6
posted by clavdivs at 9:37 AM on March 9, 2003
that sounded like a jackass
no, it sounded exactly like clavdivs.
posted by andrew cooke at 9:40 AM on March 9, 2003
no, it sounded exactly like clavdivs.
posted by andrew cooke at 9:40 AM on March 9, 2003
Nothing wrong with interesting, well-written news or politics (or even Iraq) posts, IMHO. The key words above being "interesting" and "well-written." Polemics get mighty boring mighty fast, but good, friendly, and informed argument is always a winner.
posted by Vidiot at 10:14 AM on March 9, 2003
posted by Vidiot at 10:14 AM on March 9, 2003
"MeFi needs posters like jack flash if it is to....."
Agreed. My point was that this thread was yet another example of why we don't do news/war/politcs well. More pointedly - We like to yell more than discuss.
Yes, a minority of posters ruin the fun for everyone. But they do it so well that it does indeed ruin things for everyone.
Sometimes I'm surprised and one of these threads works out very well - All sides are presented reasonably and we even learn something. But that's not just rare, it's nearly nonexistant.
posted by y6y6y6 at 11:14 AM on March 9, 2003
Agreed. My point was that this thread was yet another example of why we don't do news/war/politcs well. More pointedly - We like to yell more than discuss.
Yes, a minority of posters ruin the fun for everyone. But they do it so well that it does indeed ruin things for everyone.
Sometimes I'm surprised and one of these threads works out very well - All sides are presented reasonably and we even learn something. But that's not just rare, it's nearly nonexistant.
posted by y6y6y6 at 11:14 AM on March 9, 2003
No. It's another snarky slap fight. It's bitchy and mean and no one changes their mind.
No one trotted out the word fuckwit. That's a positive sign. In general, the thread wasn't polite, but I saw a definite evolution of ideas. JackFlash's post had a very high value when it came to understanding our friends the radioactive isotopes. Did it have an equally high value when it came to the political understanding of the situation? Perhaps, perhaps not... and hama7, stavros, and clavdivs and others called him out on that, though it took a while for it to become clear what he was saying about the politics, and what the objections of the critics were. The combative tendancies that tend to prevail here contributed to that, but I don't think they ruined this thread.
Also ... I'm always uncomfortable with the idea that "no one changes their mind." I know a lot of people don't, and y6^3's observation that people like to yell more than discuss is probably true. But I change my mind.... the composting heap of input/ideas in my head gets stirred and gets some new material in threads like this one --- or this recent thread, where MidasMulligan -- whether or not you agree with his philosophies (or the earlier snarks at non-profits in the thread) -- brought an excellent perspective on the corporate world into the thread.
It happens. Seriously, folks, raise your hand if you've never had your mind changed about something by reading MetaFilter. I'm not saying you had to have made the switch from Windows to Macintosh or Liberal Idiot(TM) to Capitalist Pig(TM -- wait, that's so not socialist). Just a new perspective that shifted your thinking.
(And that's why I come here -- because despite a high noise ratio and a sometimes pervasive snarkiness, interesting ideas really do surface in both the posts and the comments. Even interesting perspectives on Iraq, North Korea, Politics, Religion, etc. I agree with Miguel. Focus on the first two rules, exhibit some regard for the other suggestions -- and maybe try to be more polite -- and it works.)
posted by namespan at 11:50 AM on March 9, 2003
No one trotted out the word fuckwit. That's a positive sign. In general, the thread wasn't polite, but I saw a definite evolution of ideas. JackFlash's post had a very high value when it came to understanding our friends the radioactive isotopes. Did it have an equally high value when it came to the political understanding of the situation? Perhaps, perhaps not... and hama7, stavros, and clavdivs and others called him out on that, though it took a while for it to become clear what he was saying about the politics, and what the objections of the critics were. The combative tendancies that tend to prevail here contributed to that, but I don't think they ruined this thread.
Also ... I'm always uncomfortable with the idea that "no one changes their mind." I know a lot of people don't, and y6^3's observation that people like to yell more than discuss is probably true. But I change my mind.... the composting heap of input/ideas in my head gets stirred and gets some new material in threads like this one --- or this recent thread, where MidasMulligan -- whether or not you agree with his philosophies (or the earlier snarks at non-profits in the thread) -- brought an excellent perspective on the corporate world into the thread.
It happens. Seriously, folks, raise your hand if you've never had your mind changed about something by reading MetaFilter. I'm not saying you had to have made the switch from Windows to Macintosh or Liberal Idiot(TM) to Capitalist Pig(TM -- wait, that's so not socialist). Just a new perspective that shifted your thinking.
(And that's why I come here -- because despite a high noise ratio and a sometimes pervasive snarkiness, interesting ideas really do surface in both the posts and the comments. Even interesting perspectives on Iraq, North Korea, Politics, Religion, etc. I agree with Miguel. Focus on the first two rules, exhibit some regard for the other suggestions -- and maybe try to be more polite -- and it works.)
posted by namespan at 11:50 AM on March 9, 2003
Just a new perspective that shifted your thinking.Yup, quite often on minor issues about which I had given little thought. As for big issues, although I am pro-choice on abortion, I am right at the line and the right argument would push me across. I just have not yet read that particular argument yet.
Another, more timely, issue, while I have long supported taking out Saddam with military force (long before the current administration took over), I have my doubts that Shrub is the CIC to perform that action.
posted by mischief at 1:33 PM on March 9, 2003
Uh-oh. I think I trotted out "fuckwit" just a minute or two ago, in reference to ParisParamus spewing yet more jewish hatred in a thread. Hatred of jews, I think; I'm about 90% certain he's an anti-semite using piss-poor reverse psychology.
Anyway, I guess I'm bad. Wish I could go back and rephrase that response now.
posted by five fresh fish at 1:40 PM on March 9, 2003
Anyway, I guess I'm bad. Wish I could go back and rephrase that response now.
posted by five fresh fish at 1:40 PM on March 9, 2003
I think I trotted out "fuckwit"You are SUCH a slut puppy!!!
posted by mischief at 1:56 PM on March 9, 2003
So what's the exchange rate between "fuckwad" and "You are a disgrace to humanity, and a menace to Western civilization?"
posted by Vidiot at 2:13 PM on March 9, 2003
posted by Vidiot at 2:13 PM on March 9, 2003
Vidiot: Someone attacked certainly has the right to respond.
; I'm about 90% certain he's an anti-semite using piss-poor reverse psychology.
I'm about 100% sure that certain people on Metafilter have 0% comprehension of the English langugage. Perhaps Matt should institute an ESL exam?
posted by ParisParamus at 2:18 PM on March 9, 2003
; I'm about 90% certain he's an anti-semite using piss-poor reverse psychology.
I'm about 100% sure that certain people on Metafilter have 0% comprehension of the English langugage. Perhaps Matt should institute an ESL exam?
posted by ParisParamus at 2:18 PM on March 9, 2003
I said nothing about your right to respond. I was merely wondering what MeTalkers think is a greater insult.
To quote clav above: "What is key is not to bluster and foil and yell and name call. . .The real beauty is to admit wrong or concede a point or stick to one's position."
posted by Vidiot at 3:08 PM on March 9, 2003
To quote clav above: "What is key is not to bluster and foil and yell and name call. . .The real beauty is to admit wrong or concede a point or stick to one's position."
posted by Vidiot at 3:08 PM on March 9, 2003
that sounded like a jackass
no, it sounded exactly like clavdivs.
well...two cheers for consistency.
posted by clavdivs at 3:09 PM on March 9, 2003
no, it sounded exactly like clavdivs.
well...two cheers for consistency.
posted by clavdivs at 3:09 PM on March 9, 2003
The problem with politics posts is that everyone feels qualified to have their say. On other subjects, users will mostly comment if they have some special insight or resource, or perhaps a question to ask. Politics threads get treated as polls. People seem determined to let us know where they stand on every issue. That's all well and good in elections, but it's just noise the rest of the time. Even noisier is the need that some users have to explain why capitalism does or does not work on every right/left issue. I'm fairly ignorant about politics and I learn from the informative comments - mediareport and dhartung, among others, have been regularly educational - but it gets tiring to wade through all the crap. And the novelty of political bitchslapping wears off fast. It's not important whether minds get changed; a little enlightenmment will do.
Matt once said that he wasn't sure if MeFi scaled up well. I think it does for specialized interests; a bigger pool makes for a better discussion of concrete poetry or catapults. Perhaps we could treat politics the same way. It may be a general interest, but it is a specialized field of knowledge. Technology also affects me constantly, but as I'm not a techie, I don't feel the need to comment often on the subject, or let everyone know that I'm for Apple in every related thread.
Jackflashes grammar and delivery and to some extent, the long lession on the differences between uranium and plutonium is good.
Having your grammar complimented by clavdivs must feel like having your watch admired by an antelope.
posted by liam at 3:19 PM on March 9, 2003
Matt once said that he wasn't sure if MeFi scaled up well. I think it does for specialized interests; a bigger pool makes for a better discussion of concrete poetry or catapults. Perhaps we could treat politics the same way. It may be a general interest, but it is a specialized field of knowledge. Technology also affects me constantly, but as I'm not a techie, I don't feel the need to comment often on the subject, or let everyone know that I'm for Apple in every related thread.
Jackflashes grammar and delivery and to some extent, the long lession on the differences between uranium and plutonium is good.
Having your grammar complimented by clavdivs must feel like having your watch admired by an antelope.
posted by liam at 3:19 PM on March 9, 2003
God damn, that was a good comment by Jack Flash. He should be writing physics and chemistry text books, or teaching if he's not already. I've never had a teacher explain it that well, is what I mean.
As for the political part: his argument made sense to me, but I don't pretend to be anything but ignorant when it comes to Korea, and also biased towards thinking that Bush screwed up. That's why I try not to jump into Korea posts.
What isn't cool is the idea that someone's argument should be dismissed with because he doesn't live in Korea. By this logic, anyone living in Korea shouldn't be listened to when it comes to talking about America, because they don't have their finger on the pulse, right? I think it's better if we just argue the points, rather than each other's qualifications.
One thing's for sure: It turned out to be a good thread, but that had nothing to do with the post itself. No offense to troutfishing, of course. What I mean is, if the individual posters hadn't put forth the effort and held back the bile, it would have turned out like every other i/p style post. Don't let this thread sway you on the issue of NewsFilter, it's an exception that proves the rule.
posted by Hildago at 6:25 PM on March 9, 2003
As for the political part: his argument made sense to me, but I don't pretend to be anything but ignorant when it comes to Korea, and also biased towards thinking that Bush screwed up. That's why I try not to jump into Korea posts.
What isn't cool is the idea that someone's argument should be dismissed with because he doesn't live in Korea. By this logic, anyone living in Korea shouldn't be listened to when it comes to talking about America, because they don't have their finger on the pulse, right? I think it's better if we just argue the points, rather than each other's qualifications.
One thing's for sure: It turned out to be a good thread, but that had nothing to do with the post itself. No offense to troutfishing, of course. What I mean is, if the individual posters hadn't put forth the effort and held back the bile, it would have turned out like every other i/p style post. Don't let this thread sway you on the issue of NewsFilter, it's an exception that proves the rule.
posted by Hildago at 6:25 PM on March 9, 2003
By this logic, anyone living in Korea shouldn't be listened to when it comes to talking about America, because they don't have their finger on the pulse, right?
By extension, this would mean Koreans have more to say on the topic than foreign residents in Korea known for expressing their episodic antipathy to all things Korean on regular occasions, would it not? And then, if you went by what the general consensus among Koreans--well, then...
Oh, I know, everyone right has their own Korean Limbaugh in the wings that they can trot out for quotes, but given a Korean Limbaugh has the same audience share as a pro-Castro program on cable public access in Miami, consider the source.
posted by y2karl at 12:16 AM on March 10, 2003
By extension, this would mean Koreans have more to say on the topic than foreign residents in Korea known for expressing their episodic antipathy to all things Korean on regular occasions, would it not? And then, if you went by what the general consensus among Koreans--well, then...
Oh, I know, everyone right has their own Korean Limbaugh in the wings that they can trot out for quotes, but given a Korean Limbaugh has the same audience share as a pro-Castro program on cable public access in Miami, consider the source.
posted by y2karl at 12:16 AM on March 10, 2003
Oh, lordy, PP, you are just so full of shit. Go away, you little jew-hating fuckwad.
posted by five fresh fish at 1:35 PM PST on March 9
Geez, FFF, that is really bad form. Not only is it a horrible thing to say to somebody, but if you'd been paying attention for the past, oh, two years, you would've have read literally hundreds of Paris's posts defending Israel & Judaism. It's practically his favorite topic.
posted by dhoyt at 10:34 AM on March 10, 2003
posted by five fresh fish at 1:35 PM PST on March 9
Geez, FFF, that is really bad form. Not only is it a horrible thing to say to somebody, but if you'd been paying attention for the past, oh, two years, you would've have read literally hundreds of Paris's posts defending Israel & Judaism. It's practically his favorite topic.
posted by dhoyt at 10:34 AM on March 10, 2003
If you've been paying attention for the past, oh, two years, you would've read me make the same sort of comment to him previously. I usually manage to repress my loathing, but it breaks through once in a while.
I'm convinced he's some sort of pro-Hamas troll: his inane drivel always ends up making Israel look worse, not better. If he'd STFU, everyone would be better off.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:22 AM on March 11, 2003
I'm convinced he's some sort of pro-Hamas troll: his inane drivel always ends up making Israel look worse, not better. If he'd STFU, everyone would be better off.
posted by five fresh fish at 9:22 AM on March 11, 2003
If people who tell others to "shut the fuck up" (what, the acronym makes it less rude somehow?) would take their own advice, everyone would be better off.
posted by timeistight at 10:05 AM on March 11, 2003
posted by timeistight at 10:05 AM on March 11, 2003
"If he'd STFU, everyone would be better off."
Damn right. Freedom of opinion is bad enough, but when people who think wrongly assume they can just tell us what they think during a discussion, things have gone too far. The world is hard enough without all these differing opinions. If you are silly enough not to have the right opinions, at least have the common decency to keep your mouth shut.
Why does he have to be so difficult? Why can't he just conform? Geez.
posted by y6y6y6 at 10:55 AM on March 11, 2003
Damn right. Freedom of opinion is bad enough, but when people who think wrongly assume they can just tell us what they think during a discussion, things have gone too far. The world is hard enough without all these differing opinions. If you are silly enough not to have the right opinions, at least have the common decency to keep your mouth shut.
Why does he have to be so difficult? Why can't he just conform? Geez.
posted by y6y6y6 at 10:55 AM on March 11, 2003
FFF Flounders AGAIN.
posted by ParisParamus at 6:10 PM on March 11, 2003
posted by ParisParamus at 6:10 PM on March 11, 2003
FFF's take on "appropriately" defending Israel consists of moving the country's population to Uganda and letting Palestinian youth pee on the Western Wall.
posted by ParisParamus at 4:35 AM on March 12, 2003
posted by ParisParamus at 4:35 AM on March 12, 2003
You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments
You're highlighting an unfortunate MetaFilter phenomenon which consists on preying on Matt's dictates without paying attention to his words. So, instead of easy on the... [Newsfilter, I/P, op-eds, FridayFun, boyzone, NYT, "what Sound of Music character would you be?" et caetera] the message that comes across is No More!
The standard criteria still apply:
1. Is the link interesting?
2. Is there a good chance most of us won't have heard of it?
But the discussion part, though secondary, is still, imo, underrated. Some links, though not well known, are arguably interesting but only come into their own - and take off - thanks to the comments.
So...yes! ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 1:22 AM on March 9, 2003 [1 favorite]