Is the MeFi demographic overwhelmingly white and pale-faced?

July 2, 2003 10:00 AM

Is the MeFi demographic overwhelmingly white and pale-faced? Where are the minorities?
posted by MiguelCardoso to MetaFilter-Related at 10:00 AM (112 comments total)

Good question. I often fear that MeFi is a bit of a whitey club. I, myself, and crackered-out to the max, but I can dance well.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 10:02 AM on July 2, 2003

The dancing part was a lie, and I do hope that MeFi's ethnic diversity can come closer to matching its intellectual diversity (which, despite false claims of a lefty monolith, is why I come to the 'filter so often).
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 10:03 AM on July 2, 2003

Chalk up another one for young white male. Although you actually can mark the 'can dance' for real in my case. (Ballroom with a lot of West Coast Swing.)
posted by woil at 10:09 AM on July 2, 2003

There is only one ashbury, which makes me a minority.
posted by ashbury at 10:13 AM on July 2, 2003

My own uncomfortable impression is that MeFi is WASP - White Atheist Socialist Postmodernist.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 10:13 AM on July 2, 2003

I don't think it should even be an issue.
posted by angry modem at 10:17 AM on July 2, 2003

Where are the minorities?

Uh, isn't the fact that someone is statistically a "minority" (ie, a less-represented fraction than other parts of the whole) make it logical that they'll also have a minority representation on a site like MeFi? I see about the same mix of diversity at MeFi that we have in the United States. Ergot, the minorities are commensurately represented here.

Miguel: Maybe you could elaborate on your questions?
posted by dhoyt at 10:17 AM on July 2, 2003

How can you tell what race anyone is by just username alone? Hey Miguel, what am I? Can you tell by name alone?
posted by SuzySmith at 10:21 AM on July 2, 2003

After careful thought and study on this matter, I can only reply:

up yer butt. heh.

Thank you
posted by Kafkaesque at 10:22 AM on July 2, 2003

Are there any demographic statistics on Mefi? I wonder if the racial balance is any different than on the Internet at large.

My own uncomfortable impression is that MeFi is WASP - White Atheist Socialist Postmodernist.

This is too ridiculous to be serious.
posted by daveadams at 10:23 AM on July 2, 2003

Right, daveadams - pretend away, as usual.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 10:30 AM on July 2, 2003

I don't care what the demographic breakdown is and I thought that was a good thing.
posted by MarkAnd at 10:31 AM on July 2, 2003

I think for the most part we're liberal...does that count?
posted by graventy at 10:33 AM on July 2, 2003

With new membership closed, it's unlikely that's going to change.

I don't care what the demographic breakdown is and I thought that was a good thing.

Hear, hear. I love how all race is self-identified on the web. Reinjecting the conversants' racial identity into the mix removes a degree of freedom we have in discourse on the matter. I bet there are plenty of more diverse communities you could go bait if you want to, Migs.
posted by norm at 10:39 AM on July 2, 2003

I often fear that MeFi is a bit of a whitey club. I, myself, and crackered-out to the max, but I can dance well.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 10:02 AM PST on July 2

Ignatius, that's an interesting fact considering you didn't believe in the concept of race as of twelve days ago.

My own uncomfortable impression is that MeFi is WASP - White Atheist Socialist Postmodernist.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 10:13 AM PST on July 2

Miguel, don't worry, that's just you as usual. Now really, let's not forget that, as a rule, the portuguese are not "white" in the strict sense-- lots of miscegenation with muslims etc make the average portugues distinctly different form other european populations.
posted by 111 at 10:40 AM on July 2, 2003

Seriously, Miguel, why is this something we should be asking? This website is entirely neutral about the origins and backgrounds of its members. Isn't that the way it should be?
posted by mattpfeff at 10:41 AM on July 2, 2003

On the Internet, nobody knows you're a honky.
posted by arco at 10:43 AM on July 2, 2003

Hey, I'm virtually ethnic! According to the Washington Post, I'm a 98-year-old woman living in Azerbaijan.
posted by bonehead at 11:01 AM on July 2, 2003

It's all in the beholders eyes.
I have freckles how am I totally pale, especially since I do tan; a redheaded step-child to some eyes yet the guy who cuts my hair says strawberry blond, nice guy.

What is white?
Example, a Espanol person is classed as white race in the USA's census.

This question can be confusing since we all live in various countries with different political views. How, some countries label you by families religion instead of country birth place.

Do you want to add a explanation label on all our opinions?

I can share with you my various blood lines in the history books then go from their through The Bible. Who knows we may be kin. ;)
Thought you were a contental man Mig, maybe we should let our contental origins speak for whom we are.

Or just who you are, an individual.
posted by thomcatspike at 11:06 AM on July 2, 2003

My first reaction to Miguel's post was similar to that of most others who have posted this far. Upon further reflection, however, I had to consider the value of knowing someone's background when weighing the validity of their insight into certain topics.

Would I call BS if Miguel cited his own life as a Somalian lesbian cabdriver as relevant to the topic under discussion? Automatically -- and I would reject anything else he said on the topic. However, if we really had a Somalian lesbian cabdriver in our ranks, I would tend to attach more weight to anything she had to say about being Somalian, lesbian, or cabdriving.

That said, while I can see some advantage in knowing someone's background as I read their posts, I think that letting their words and opinions stand on their own is better than contextualizing them by my own acquired prejudices.
posted by joaquim at 11:11 AM on July 2, 2003

111:
Just because something is bullshit doesn't remove its effects on reality. I can't believe I am even responding to you, but here it is: I don't believe in God, but I can tell when I'm somewhere dominated by religion. I am white. I know that I am white, and that my friend Chris is black. I just don't think that that bit of inuitiveness necessarilly makes for a meaningful classification.

Once again, someone give me some numbers, some simple definitions for the "races," and I will gladly acquiesce. I just find it odd that I am supposed to accept the validity of certain groups, but no one that I have ever met can tell me what those groupd are or how they are delineated. Sorry to espouse a complex or sophisticated viewpoint. From now on, my refusal to accept races as valid categories will preclude me from noting any impacts that said fallacy has had on social/group structures. That sounds productive.

But that's not what this thread is about. Lest it become about that, I will give the following pre-summary:

Me: I can't accept these groups as valid unless they are defined.

Someone else: You are dumb. Can't you see? Race is everywhere.

Me: But taxonomically, it makes no sense. One cannot construct group parameters for race for which the varaition in terms of a given trait is not greater than the variation between the means of the different groups. How can these be valid groups? Just tell me how.

Someone else: You are still dumb. Race exists. It is self-evident or something, you liberal namby-pamby double-talking buttwad.

Me: You're right. I have seen the light! Clearly, one does not need to understand the manner in which a system of classification functions in order to subscribe to its validity. I am dumb.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 11:12 AM on July 2, 2003

Given the (supposed) net access gap between whites and minorities. why would one expect minorities to gravitate to this site (heavily WASP as Mig points out) as opposed to others? Oh, Mig, you forgot one other dominant characteristic: G for geek. ;-P
posted by mischief at 11:24 AM on July 2, 2003

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am a member of the human race. And when possible, that's what I write on forms.
posted by konolia at 11:34 AM on July 2, 2003

Well boy, I sure hope we can discuss everyone's ethnicity and bring race into the realm of discussion here on MeFi and MeTa, because there just isn't enough discussion of it and attention on it in the real world.

And of course, then we can really casually dimiss other people's opinions.
posted by xmutex at 11:40 AM on July 2, 2003

I'm not sure if this counts for anything, but I love the yellow man, just so's you all know.
posted by jonson at 11:44 AM on July 2, 2003

My own uncomfortable impression is that MeFi is ... white

Based on what, Miguel -- do our usernames smell different?
posted by rcade at 11:46 AM on July 2, 2003

rcade, that was a little severe, don't you think?

Sometimes we can make fairly good guesses regarding another's ethnicity based on the body of comments they have provided.

Guessing at race on a faceless website is next to impossible, but I think we can assume that a majority of people here are white, liberal, mostly english-speaking and male. Fortunately, or not, the assumption is all we have until we are told otherwise.

Either way, I don't think race is an issue at MeFi, is it? I have never witnessed it, if it is. If we have any biases, it is more about which part of the political spectrum you are in, and if you have the intelligence to debate properly. Oh, and good spelling seems also to be an issue.

Besides, this is all part of Miguel's endless attempt at sorting everything he cares about into some sort of numbered system. His fascination with statistics is interesting, though somewhat tedious at times.
posted by ashbury at 12:08 PM on July 2, 2003

Upon further reflection, however, I had to consider the value of knowing someone's background when weighing the validity of their insight into certain topics.

That breaks down real quick, though. If someone is a lesbian Somalian cabdriver, they perhaps know a thing or two about being a lesbian Somalian cabdriver, but I wouldn't call them necessarily an over all expert on any of those three things. For instance, being Somalian doesn't make you an expert on Somalia any more than being American makes you a Constitutional law expert, or a Depression-era historian, or a Broadway theater critic. Being Somalian makes you Somalian, being an expert on Somalia makes you an expert on Somalia, but the two aren't connected in any immediate way.

Plus by giving credence to members of a group on issues related to that group, you marginalize the opinions of people who aren't in that group. Can a man talk about abortion? Can a woman talk about the NFL? Of course.

There are certain dangers and certain advantages to anonymity, but since the internet is really the only place in the world where you don't have to be described by race, creed or all those other arbitrary criteria, I vote for keeping the masks on.
posted by Hildago at 12:12 PM on July 2, 2003

all us minorities are off hiding from stupid chatty metatalk threads.
posted by anildash at 12:23 PM on July 2, 2003

My own uncomfortable impression is that MeFi is WASP - White Atheist Socialist Postmodernist.

Dammit, Migs, don't you dare assume my postmodernity!
posted by scody at 12:25 PM on July 2, 2003

I'm black.
posted by mcsweetie at 12:25 PM on July 2, 2003

Plus by giving credence to members of a group on issues related to that group, you marginalize the opinions of people who aren't in that group. Can a man talk about abortion? Can a woman talk about the NFL? Of course.
hallelujah, man. hallelujah

the user page does not require any of us to fill that info for a reason -- it's largely pointless. this is not an Internet dating/swinger site, who the fuck cares? would Miguel require us to post a recent picture of ourselves, too, if he ran the site? what about HIV status? isn't that relevant when discussing AIDS threads?

we've already done the "a/s/l" MeTa threads

now we're dealing with the "what's your race" poll

coming soon:

"what's your sign" MeTa poll

"how much do you make a year" MeTa poll

"what's your height/weight"

"what's your favorite soccer/basketball/hockey team"

after that, one wonders what'll come next:

"do you shave with an electric/manual razor" MeTa poll

"what's your dick size (for male users) bra size (women users)"
posted by matteo at 12:30 PM on July 2, 2003

My own uncomfortable impression is that MeFi is WASP - White Atheist Socialist Postmodernist.

Well, two out of four ain't bad.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 12:30 PM on July 2, 2003

I'm black.

Who isn't?
posted by 111 at 12:32 PM on July 2, 2003

"what's your dick size (for male users) bra size (women users)"

My dick size is only for female users.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:41 PM on July 2, 2003

Maybe a better understanding of the question is in order instead of my take on it. Reading other comments I can see maybe what you were wondering. Do only whites or the original settler's families use mefi? If so what's the point of having a discussion on growing up in a ethnic neighborhood.

The US is a pretty mixed breed, even concluded as racist it can be here, especially when taking in account the US census. But the USA,may have a lot more mixed families than any other country in the World. Any member know any #s? Our diversity is large in the USA. Mig are you considering a move?
posted by thomcatspike at 12:56 PM on July 2, 2003

Being Somalian makes you Somalian, being an expert on Somalia makes you an expert on Somalia

If the topic is "being Somalian", I will give more weight to the Somalian than I will to the expert on Somalia who was born and raised in Pocatello, Idaho. OTOH, that spud farmer might have a better knowledge of the yearly Somalian potato exports than the average Somalian. I would have to place the background of each person in context with the topic under discussion in order to decide which one is likely to have the more accurate facts.

It's not a matter of bestowing and withholding credence as you are proposing -- it's a matter of listening a little more closely to those who actually have some experience than to those who might be talking through their hat. Yes, a man can talk about abortion, but should you believe him when he tells you that childbirth is completely painless?

You may not have read the final paragraph of my previous post -- I said that in spite of the occasional usefulness in knowing someone's background, we're better off considering their words on their own merits.
posted by joaquim at 1:10 PM on July 2, 2003

joaquim, your words are beautiful, as are you.
posted by ashbury at 1:18 PM on July 2, 2003

While I applaud the desire to ignore race as a means of prejudicing, I think that it's a mistake to pretend that it doesn't exist, or that it has only negative implications.

Race definitely exists and has meaning. It is not a coherent system of taxonomy, which is why it's not possible to define it that way. It is, rather, an arbitrary chunking mechanism that people use to describe shared cultural history, physical appearance, dialect, political views, etc. How races are defined vary from place to place and from culture to culture, but to say that they therefore do not exist is an odd claim that's difficult to support. Race has enormous significance, both positive and negative, to all kinds of people. Belonging to a group can enhance the human experience as much as it can limit it.

I admire the intent to dispel the ugliness that race has inflicted over the years, but we run the risk of throwing the baby out with the bathwater. Should we outlaw the notion of "black pride"? Require that Jews stop referring to themselves as Jews if they don't go to temple every week? Forbid native americans from performing ancestral music? To me, as long as we don't use it as an instrument of hatred or lock people within their inherited culture, I think that race adds something definite to our shared experience, and we'd be fools to simply ignore it and hope that it goes away. Being equal does not require being indistinguishable.
posted by vraxoin at 1:18 PM on July 2, 2003

fer real dawg
posted by holloway at 1:34 PM on July 2, 2003

that was nicely put, vraxoin. Although I don't see a need to identify everyone artificially in a separate thread like this - if it's relevant to a discussion, it can be stated then.

what's this "white and pale-faced"? your articularity seems to be suffering from overuse or something, Miguel.
posted by mdn at 1:35 PM on July 2, 2003

"Intellectually diverse..." hehehe.
posted by nthdegx at 1:38 PM on July 2, 2003

My bones are charcoal, and my soul is a golden bronze.

btw, I thought we had two races here, baby blue and gray.
posted by jazzkat11 at 1:48 PM on July 2, 2003

Although I don't see a need to identify everyone artificially in a separate thread like this

I'm just going to respond "Other".
posted by vraxoin at 2:18 PM on July 2, 2003

btw, I thought we had two races here, baby blue and gray.

And we know who's winning the gray...
posted by Dark Messiah at 2:26 PM on July 2, 2003

coming soon:
"what's your sign" MeTa poll
"how much do you make a year" MeTa poll
"what's your height/weight"
"what's your favorite soccer/basketball/hockey team"
after that, one wonders what'll come next:
"do you shave with an electric/manual razor" MeTa poll
"what's your dick size (for male users) bra size (women users)"

You've just given Miguel a week's worth of MeTa posts!
posted by languagehat at 2:41 PM on July 2, 2003

So you'd think that because I'm made of ice that I'd be white. But who knows. There are green icebergs, you know.
posted by iceberg273 at 2:41 PM on July 2, 2003

white, liberal, mostly english-speaking and male.

uh-ok, yeah, but...

I don't know about the rest of you, but I am a member of the human race. And when possible, that's what I write on forms.

I don't often channel konolia....but I'm starting now.
posted by dash_slot- at 2:52 PM on July 2, 2003

Our diversity is large in the USA.

Not where I live, thomcatspike.

I wonder if Miguel is basing his assumption of our whiteness on anything in particular? For instance, I assume everyone is white until I know otherwise. That is not necessarily right, but that is what I do. I also assume everyone is male until I know otherwise, and that bothers me even more.
posted by JanetLand at 3:03 PM on July 2, 2003

I don't what moved Migs to do this particular MeFi Straw Poll, but when think of MeFi WASPs, I think of Weird Asshats Shoveling Poop.
posted by wendell at 3:11 PM on July 2, 2003

Does half-Arabic count?
posted by scarabic at 3:11 PM on July 2, 2003

i want morris dancers banned from this site !!!!!

who's with me ??????
posted by sgt.serenity at 3:15 PM on July 2, 2003

Sgt - who is Morris Dancers, and why do you hate/fear him?
posted by jonson at 4:10 PM on July 2, 2003

Actually I assumed that nearly everybody on MetaFilter was white as well. Don't know why, as there's really no reason to make that assumption. I also (worryingly) assumed that everybody except me (and maybe a couple of others) were American. I'm guessing that this makes me look borderline rascist, and the possibility of truth in this matter makes me feel extremely uncomfortable.

Intellectually I know that everybody who comes to MeFi isn't a white, male, bespectecaled, 30 something, computer programmer, but part of my feeling of belonging here increases an almost unconcious stereotyping of people into exactly the same demographic as me. That seems pretty arrogant, and I'd be foolish to believe it, but theres part of me that thinks that it is the truth.

As for whether the demographics of MeFi follow the demographics of the countries people come from, then I'm not sure that this would be the case. Minorities in countries are generally denied (through whatever reasons) the standard of living expected by the majority. Part of this standard of living has to include access to computers and the internet. You're not going to be posting to metafilter when you live in the projects and you're trying to hold down three jobs.

Actually - that's pretty much me stereotyping again. Somebody tell me that I'm wrong.
posted by seanyboy at 4:25 PM on July 2, 2003

you're wrong
posted by amberglow at 5:01 PM on July 2, 2003

Seanboy, you're wrong. In most countries the majority is disadvantaged, and a minority enjoys affluence, broadband and plenty of free time.
posted by signal at 5:07 PM on July 2, 2003

you're wrong



no -- sorry, just kidding. it's very human to do that, to imagine how other users here actually look. it's interesting how this "weblog as conversation" thing ends up creating this weird situation where we're "talking" to lots of virtual unknowns, people we have never seen and (mostly) don't know, not even by e-mail or instant message or whatever

it's normal to try and project one's mental image that way. you just imagined that everybody here looked slightly like you.

when you read a book you end up creating a face for the characters, especially if the author didn't give many details -- that's why you end up being disappointed when you watch the movie and the actor/actress doesn't look like your idea of the character

me, I was surprised to watch the trailer of a documentary about bloggers because I heard for the first time Matt's voice -- I knew his face already, had seen some pics online, but I had never heard his voice.

that's why I never look at MeFi meetup pics, because I try not to imagine other users faces, but I sometimes do, like they (you) were the characters of a nonvisual medium, like a book. the Internet being of course in MeFi's case a nonvisual medium. even if I'm sure that many users would love to see, right next to our username, a little jpeg with our mugshot.
posted by matteo at 5:07 PM on July 2, 2003

I would have to place the background of each person in context with the topic under discussion in order to decide which one is likely to have the more accurate facts.

But that's the fallacy. Merely knowing someone's race doesn't tell you about their background. If the suggestion is that knowing someone is Mexican (for instance) allows you to refer certain questions to them, then we've got a serious problem.

If instead what you want is to have everyone indexed by their experience and areas of knowledge and thus be known, credible experts on certain subjects, then that's also a problem too because it's not feasible, and besides it's just not what Metafilter is about, in my estimation. It's more fun if we're all free to be experts on things you'd never expect us to know shit about.

Anyway it's a solution looking for a problem. You can pretty much tell already whether someone is talking out of their hat or if they are knowledgeable based on the strength of their argument, rather than the, you know, color of their skin. That's one element of the self-policing community idea that seems to be working. There are naturally some exceptions, but really, have you had much of a problem telling which arguments are good and which are bad?
posted by Hildago at 5:15 PM on July 2, 2003

It would be fantastic to have actual survey data. I'd like to know once and for all how many people here use Macs.

seanyboy - I'd bet that white, american, bespectacled, 30-something programmers are a minority here overall (and Mac users, too). But these groups have an enhanced sense of ownership, perhaps by right of "here-first" (aka low user ids). They tend to be more visible/vocal on the site, and their sense of comfort here helps convince others that they are the ones who belong, represent, own.

Perhaps the iconic image of white, american, bespectacled, 30-ish, programming, Mac-using Matt Haughey (who does own the site) has something to do with it as well.

New Tagline:
MetaFilter: Where God is White and 30ish
posted by scarabic at 5:19 PM on July 2, 2003

Wow, what a touchy subject. I'd never have guessed! Fwiw, I'd like MeFi to be much more diverse. Uniformity is boring. Complacency too.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 6:05 PM on July 2, 2003

Touchy? Ha! As you can see, the PC cop-outs would rather talk about not discussing the issue. Rather than bask in the diversity of knowing each other's backgrounds, they would rather shrink it away into obscurity. Hypocrites!
posted by mischief at 6:20 PM on July 2, 2003

If it makes anyone feel better, I never gave a shit what colour / race / creed / gender anyone here happened to be. And until someone can explain why it actually matters what the MeFi demographic is, I'll be over in the corner praising the Internet for it's inherent colour-blindness.
posted by Dark Messiah at 6:22 PM on July 2, 2003

Fwiw, I'd like MeFi to be much more diverse.

But you still don't have any idea how diverse it is! Or whether the variable that you are wishing for diversity in is one that is orthogonal to the functioning of a community weblog.

Uniformity is boring.

There are few clones on MetaFilter. In fact, it is clear that different people are responsible for many of the comments here.

Complacency too.

But if people are complacent, then they are sitting around all self satisfied while outside the bear, or sasquatch, or what have you is sloooowly creeping across the porch, and you're screaming at the screen, no, no, put DOWN the cookies, and then the door begins to open, and the lights go out, and you jump despite yourself.

See, complacency can be a summer blockbuster.
posted by iceberg273 at 6:45 PM on July 2, 2003

i did see a black guy in here once, carrying a color tv set. but he was in a hurry, so he probably didn't post.
posted by quonsar at 6:51 PM on July 2, 2003

See? Men are from Mars, women are from Venus, and quonsar is from Uranus. We gotcher uranian demographic covered right there, portu-boy.
posted by yhbc at 6:55 PM on July 2, 2003

Alone and gaunt, impossibly tall, elbows akimbo, chin raised, standing high atop his favorite pedestal, thrusting his dark, defiant silhouette into the complacent MeTa sky, the Miguel, he vibrates.
posted by Opus Dark at 7:09 PM on July 2, 2003

Wow, what a touchy subject. I'd never have guessed! Fwiw, I'd like MeFi to be much more diverse. Uniformity is boring. Complacency too.

How do you know it is not diverse? That's the whole point of most of the replies. You see screen names, that's all. You don't need to know everything about everyone here. Read what they have to say and go by that.
posted by SuzySmith at 8:04 PM on July 2, 2003

I often forget how many women are participating. Feels like guyfilter most of the time. Niceguyfilter, but guyfilter. Not all screen names are as revealing of gender as yours, SuzySmith.

Sometimes a gender-charged topic will bring someone's gendered perspective to the fore and I'll have that experience of remembering "oh yeah... that's right... quonsar is a eunuch"
posted by scarabic at 8:24 PM on July 2, 2003

To be a man who's nuts, yet not have any. How...ironic.

posted by trondant at 8:50 PM on July 2, 2003

"To be a man who's nuts, yet not have any. How...ironic."

Yeah. It's like rain on your wedding day.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:55 PM on July 2, 2003

I know that everybody who comes to MeFi isn't a white, male, bespectecaled, 30 something, computer programmer

You just assume I'm some kind of white, male bespectacled, 30 something computer programmer? . . .

Oh, wait. That's exactly what I am. Crap.
posted by vraxoin at 8:59 PM on July 2, 2003

I am pink. Mostly.
posted by Guy Smiley at 9:01 PM on July 2, 2003

Don't worry, miguel, mefi will still love you when we find out (...eventually...) you are not actually portuguese, but JUST ANOTHER TYPICAL WHITEY MALE living out a fanciful alter ego, like the rest of us.

The stench is strong in this thread.
posted by elphTeq at 9:16 PM on July 2, 2003

On the Internet, nobody knows you're a geek.

(Waitasec...that isn't quite right. Needs more work.)
posted by Vidiot at 9:16 PM on July 2, 2003

Right now, I'm somewhat green.

And it's not easy.
posted by wendell at 9:22 PM on July 2, 2003

Merely knowing someone's race doesn't tell you about their background. If the suggestion is that knowing someone is Mexican (for instance) allows you to refer certain questions to them, then we've got a serious problem.

I never claimed that race = background. I claimed that background is an indication of experience. One last time: if the topic is "being Elbonian", then I will listen more closely to the person who is actually Elbonian rather than someone who isn't. Both opinions are welcome, but one carries more weight with me.

It's more fun if we're all free to be experts on things you'd never expect us to know shit about.

The problem is knowing when someone is being an "expert" on things they know nothing about.

I don't know if you're just trolling me or you actually don't understand my point, but it doesn't look like either of us will sway the other on this issue.

ashbury, thanks for the compliment. It would mean more if you weren't a 40-something, wannabe Vancouverite, but I guess that's the price I pay for considering someone's background.
posted by joaquim at 9:26 PM on July 2, 2003

Am I blue? Am I blue? Ain't these tears in my eyes tellin' you?
posted by crunchland at 9:45 PM on July 2, 2003

Are you, uh...bluish? You don't look bluish. [.wav]
posted by kirkaracha at 10:40 PM on July 2, 2003

you all look

alike to me.
posted by quonsar at 11:20 PM on July 2, 2003

The problem is knowing when someone is being an "expert" on things they know nothing about.

You call it a problem. I call it egalitarian entertainment. MeFi comments are amorphous little word-filled blobs; each is expected to defend itself with nothing more than its own little fists. The blobs are unranked, and no blob has an advantage. Making the little guys wear credentials would dampen their enthusiasm, segregate the playground, and embarrass the blue-blooded blobs into self-glossing, annotative apoplexy. Bleah. Leave it alone.
posted by Opus Dark at 1:07 AM on July 3, 2003

Coming from a country that's white as my grandma's pavlova, and where we keep all the coloured folk out in the desert living in third world conditions and dying of treatable diseases while we make money extracting minerals from their ancestral land, part of the attraction of coming to an "American-centric site" like this is the hope that I will encounter a little diversity - all sorts of diversity, not just racial diversity. I don't need to know who's who, but I would like to think that it's there and leave it at that.
posted by Jimbob at 2:35 AM on July 3, 2003

If the topic is "being Somalian", I will give more weight to the Somalian than I will to the expert on Somalia who was born and raised in Pocatello, Idaho.

Would you still feel that way if the Somalian poster had a posting history of being trollish, overtly racist, full of shit, and a pain in the ass?
posted by DBAPaul at 3:35 AM on July 3, 2003

its only white people that are bad, everyone knows that.
posted by sgt.serenity at 3:58 AM on July 3, 2003

m_c_d: Don't you mean '...rayy-eeee-aiiiiyn on your wedding day'?

Metafilter: You call it a problem. I call it egalitarian entertainment.
Metafilter: The blobs are unranked, and no blob has an advantage.
Metafilter: Bleah. Leave it alone.

Opus: Dude, you're a machine! ;-)

And who'd've thought that a google for 'lesbian Somalia "cab driver"' would lead to this happy fella?
posted by i_cola at 4:54 AM on July 3, 2003

Minorities could post in a larger, bolder font for easier identification?
posted by Witty at 6:02 AM on July 3, 2003

Chicks could post in pink!
posted by Witty at 6:02 AM on July 3, 2003

I agree Miguel. Notwithstanding the freedom of anonymous social interaction on the internet.
I have often wondered if there were a black metafilter in existence somewhere. Ooh, contentious remark.
I have wondered what the demographics of computer ownership/forum participation/online gaming/weblog writing are.
But then, as Spike Lee has said, black people make up 10% of the US population, but they contribute 99% of what is cool about the US. More contention.
Maybe the whiteys are trying to balance this out with this Metafilter thing, which is undoubtedly cool.
posted by asok at 6:03 AM on July 3, 2003

The more I look at Migs' statements in this thread, the more I am sure it's a classic troll.

Post: knowingly inflammatory statement.
Comments: reaction
Poster (commenting): Oo! Touchy touchy!
posted by norm at 7:19 AM on July 3, 2003

There is no "race;" there is only culture. Our cultures overlap at Metafilter.
posted by rushmc at 8:09 AM on July 3, 2003

I don't think I am being too hard on this, Ashbury.

Based on nothing more concrete than an "impression," Miguel decries the lack of non-white members in a medium that's blissfully free of the normal context we use as shorthand when viewing people of different races, religions, nationalities, sexual orientation, and other means of separating Us from Them.

When people object to the premise and the absence of any factual basis for his claim, his only response is to deride us for being touchy. Suddenly, the Metafilter record holder for garrulousness is a man of few words.

Insert Charlie Brown "auugh!" sound effect here.

The assumption that everyone here is white probably drives away some of the people who would make it diverse. How many people like asok are defining this as the "white Metafilter" and pining for another that was more like them?

I'm guessing that Miguel was fishing for some self-identification that would assuage his concerns that there aren't enough X people here (insert your group, rinse, repeat).

However, I think there's a better way to do that than "all you honkeys are making me uncomfortable."
posted by rcade at 8:13 AM on July 3, 2003

There is no "race;" there is only culture.

Tell that to a black kid raised by white parents.
posted by vraxoin at 8:18 AM on July 3, 2003

I often forget how many women are participating. Feels like guyfilter most of the time. Niceguyfilter, but guyfilter. Not all screen names are as revealing of gender as yours, SuzySmith.

Very true. I have a habit of using my real name everywhere I go online. That part of me is obvious, but even without my name being so gender specific, you could determine my gender by many of my posts. You can't determine my ethnicity/race/culture/color/whatever you wish to call it, by that.

I like that about MeFi. That way all voices are heard on an equal basis.

Minorities could post in a larger, bolder font for easier identification?

What about those who are more than one race? Medium, not so bold?



Chicks could post in pink!
That I could get behind. Although it would be quite glaring.

On preview, damn, you can't change the color. I tried, I wanted pink.
posted by SuzySmith at 8:27 AM on July 3, 2003

You don't need to know everything about everyone here.

But he does, he does. Haven't you been following his MeTa posts?

And let's not have any nasty comments about Elbonians. I happen to know we have several Elbonian members.
posted by languagehat at 8:28 AM on July 3, 2003

In what context are we defining "minority"?
posted by signal at 8:42 AM on July 3, 2003

I'd like MeFi to be much more diverse.

Honestly -- what makes you think it's not diverse enough? (Where's the harm, or the missing value, which would be addressed by rectifying this purported homogeneity?) What makes racial diversity an important measure of this community?
posted by mattpfeff at 9:26 AM on July 3, 2003

i want morris dancers banned from this site !!!!!

Us English folk fans are always being discriminated against. Shame on you.
posted by Summer at 9:50 AM on July 3, 2003

I'm an Indian (that's Native American to you PC folk), I'm female AND I use a Mac. Can I be the MeFi Minority Mascot now?
posted by mokujin at 11:03 AM on July 3, 2003

Can I be the MeFi Minority Mascot now?

Sorry kid, you're still going to need some sort of schtick. Do you know any song / dance numbers?
posted by jazzkat11 at 11:13 AM on July 3, 2003

Where are the minorities?
Ask a question, get an answer
posted by thirteen at 11:44 AM on July 3, 2003

Some of my best friends are MeFites.
posted by me3dia at 11:46 AM on July 3, 2003

Ha ha, thirteen - thanks for the laugh!
posted by MiguelCardoso at 11:47 AM on July 3, 2003

As usual, Miguel asks a pointed, perspicacious, and pertinent question -- and somehow the sound of that question penetrates sandboxes everywhere, causing a brief raising of heads and sniffing of wind (one "member's" moronic, gutter-level, predictable response was to generate a MetaTalk thread, since deleted, insinuating that Miguel is "racist" for daring to bring up the issue of diversity on MetaFilter. But then again, many of these are those who cry "troll" in fear at every opinion or fact they didn't hear from mummy, dadda, or TeeVee).

The issue of the "digital divide" is real and shameful, as is the pervasive racism in America (and the world).

Fwiw, I'd like MeFi to be much more diverse. Uniformity is boring. Complacency too.

Amen.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 12:15 PM on July 3, 2003

Just one quick observation for everyone to consider: if Miguel Cardoso really would "like MeFi to be much more diverse", why does he post so much? And when he does, why does he almost always push the same values?

Values are best revealed by actions; preaching one thing and practicing the opposite makes you look hypocritical.
posted by 111 at 12:50 PM on July 3, 2003

posted by y2karl at 12:54 PM on July 3, 2003

Is the MeFi demographic...

This is a question. The question asks about metafilter demographics.

overwhelmingly white and pale-faced

this is the specific demographic with-in the question.

The adjectives "white and pale-faced" implies a certain demographic does it not?....No? As to this question: Where are the minorities?
What does this mean, do they not show up on the "Demographic".

what you see here is the "slight of hand" miguel employs to frame what seems a question but upon examination collapses into mere rhetoric at best.

The key word that nullifies this question is "Demographic" and who knows this answer? An examination into user pages? Whatever stats the administrator may acquire? For whom or even where would said demographics be complied and more important how? I dare say a thumbnail sketch may be obtained upon examination of statistics available, but for purposes....Marketing?

Beyond the double-dealing definition of "white" and "Paleface", is the adjective "overwhelmingly". What predominantly "overwhelms" metafilter to be to have a "white" membership? What of the question of readers, are they overwhelmingly "White"? What does this question imply? That is the craft of the double-dealers. The weighty, time consumming efforts to refute a question appear as an answer. This question has no answer but I say, Karls' Curly comes close.
posted by clavdivs at 1:33 PM on July 3, 2003

Tell that to a black kid raised by white parents.

Any issues/conflicts are still cultural.
posted by rushmc at 1:53 PM on July 3, 2003

and foldy, get a dictionary , I insinuated nothing. I openly asked "Is Miguel A Racist" this being based on this thread which is a question about demographics and "Palefaces"
so is he a racist? most likely not from the usage of "paleface" but it smacks of trolling, a definition I am sure you are aware of.

I am a blunt and sometimes rude man. i have my prejudices but don't call me a moron. You insinuate by not mentioning my username. the question may have been withdrawn by the administrator and that is well and fine but take shame upon your capitalizing on matters that are not even present to discuss and then talk of diversity. This is a shameful thing i say.
posted by clavdivs at 2:04 PM on July 3, 2003

The problem is knowing when someone is being an "expert" on things they know nothing about.

And again, I don't think it's much of a problem. Ideally we wouldn't assume people are correct because they tell us they are experts; if something is important we should check the facts ourselves. Give preference to the best argument only.

I don't know if you're just trolling me or you actually don't understand my point, but it doesn't look like either of us will sway the other on this issue.

Well no, I get what you're saying, I just think it's misguided. And you're right in that nobody ever sways anyone else.. in fact I think it usually works out that the more comments I post in a thread, the less I end up saying. I bet there's a good paper topic in there somewhere. Anyway, cheers.
posted by Hildago at 3:10 PM on July 3, 2003

rushmc hit the nail on the head, I feel. While this may not be true in the real world, it is certainly true on MeFi. In fact, there is a growing culture that belongs to MeFi only (and a sub-culture that only fits MeTa) and which defines the standards of behaviour (or misbehaviour) that is acceptable within the confines of the community.

If you look at minorities on a world-wide scale which, when you are dealing with a medium that is equally available world-wide you probably should do, the WASP demographic is an almost insignificant minority in terms of numbers, if not influence.

Who cares anyway? I confess to some curiosity on my part over what leads people to post in a certain way, but I suspect that this is more to do with their culture and life experience (or lack thereof) that is at the heart of people's attitudes to most things.
posted by dg at 4:00 PM on July 3, 2003

I'm black.

Who isn't?

white people.
posted by mcsweetie at 10:19 PM on July 3, 2003

But then again, many of these are those who cry "troll" in fear at every opinion or fact they didn't hear from mummy, dadda, or TeeVee

Troll.
posted by norm at 10:50 AM on July 7, 2003

though I am above gloating, i shall, for a small moment, say that for a little awhile, I have sought to have Foldy and Miguel at the "other side" of an argument and hoped to get the better and I have. I shall bookmark this thread.

"HUMMNPTTT"
posted by clavdivs at 1:06 PM on July 9, 2003