Comments on: self-link, with a twist

self-link, with a twist

anastasiav — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:04:38 -0800

This post is a self-link, but with a twist ... the poster is currently in Iraq and is apparently part of the unit that captured Saddam Hussein. Is this post simply a violation of the rules that should be deleted? Or is it the 'exception that proves the rule' -- the fact that he's a unique witness to history trumping one of the few hard-and-fast MeFi rules?

By: troutfishing

troutfishing — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:23:14 -0800

I, for one, am interested. One question - If the post got deleted, would that mean that some other Metafilter member couldn't then post the link legally? That would be a shame.

By: elwoodwiles

elwoodwiles — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:30:07 -0800

I also think it's an interesting link. Perhaps there are two options: leave the post, but delete all the self-link related comments made by other users, or delete the whole thing and permit another user re-post it (perhaps even mathowie could just repost it himself.) I personally think the second option is preferable, as it allows an interesting post, but doesn't bend the one hard rule.

By: mathowie

mathowie — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:30:27 -0800

I deleted all the protests, as it does sound like it's worth the self-link. Now I'm just hoping it's true, since I've been hoaxed recently.

By: mathowie

mathowie — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 16:36:11 -0800

Also, sorry to raise any suspicions as to whether the account was real, his post was made from an overseas IP and I would tend to believe it. I can't wait to hear the second part.

By: languagehat

languagehat — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:07:33 -0800

Agreed, this is worth an exception.

By: namespan

namespan — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 18:41:11 -0800

It's indeed interesting and I'm glad it's not deleted, but wouldn't it have been better if it had been emailed to someone else (maybe even you, mathowie?) and been posted that way, as troutfishing suggested?

Not that the rules matter for the rules sake. I just wonder, for example, what happens the next time JJBotter thinks he has something interesting.

By: substrate

substrate — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 19:20:55 -0800

I'd rather see the occasional exception made than have people email a third party their links. If a post is postworthy then it'll stand up to scrutiny though a few arrows might be slung in your general direction. There are at least a few known people here who have or had multiple accounts. A wink-and-nod understanding that it's ok to mail your self-links to somebody else will just encourage people to take advantage of multiple accounts as well.

By: namespan

namespan — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 19:27:41 -0800

Fair enough -- in otherwords, above-ground nature of the self-link probably makes community-policing far easier than the secondhand link. I buy it.

By: troutfishing

troutfishing — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 19:32:19 -0800

That makes sense to me.

By: anastasiav

anastasiav — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 19:43:30 -0800

For me, I think that the tipping point is that we can, after a fashion, ask questions directly to the person who had the experience. For what its worth.

By: sgt.serenity

sgt.serenity — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 20:03:04 -0800

his first blog entry about reading a book called "spinning webs for fun and profit" by making up fictitious characters on the net is certainly interesting and probably a signal that this is a load of hooey.
It would be wonderful to have a meta member be part of the capture of saddam , i just would have preffered it to be quonsar.

By: quonsar

quonsar — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 21:27:58 -0800

i was restricted to a secure location earlier this week. honest.

By: dhartung

dhartung — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 21:35:48 -0800

I'm sure that e-mailing jeremy.botter AT us.army.mil would help determine whether it's really a load of hooey.

There's a Jeremy Botter in Katy, TX, which isn't terribly far from Ft. Hood in Killeen.

jeremybotter.com WHOIS references both Katy, TX and the dot-mil e-mail.

His prior blog's about page identifies him as a combat medic with the 4th ID in Ft. Hood.

Saddam was captured by units of the 4th ID.

The 1/10 Cavalry of the 4th ID is stationed at Ft. Hood.

In any case, no need for Metafilter to be skeptical; military types are quite vigilant at smoking out fakes and wannabes on their own. If this is fakery, he's messing with people who don't especially tolerate it.

Perhaps the best evidence of all is that there are no trackbacks from warblogs yet. You'd think a faker would have trolled them rather than us.

By: sgt.serenity

sgt.serenity — Fri, 19 Dec 2003 22:48:33 -0800

the wall of shame is quite interesting.
sorry , i go with the first blog entry he has which states he was thinking of inventing a fictitious web character , then he starts a wee mindgame with the will i/ wont i stuff.
definite fake.
combat medic ? what was he gonna do , change saddams incontinence pad ?

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Sat, 20 Dec 2003 00:28:45 -0800

Some of you people must be suppliers to the DeBeers family.

By: sgt.serenity

sgt.serenity — Sat, 20 Dec 2003 01:15:39 -0800

Some of you people must be suppliers to the DeBeers family.

because .........what , precisely ?

By: davidmsc

davidmsc — Sat, 20 Dec 2003 07:24:36 -0800

Like dhartung, I scoured Botters' site, looked up WHOIS, etc. On first blush, it all sounds legit. His training at Ft Sam Houston, and career field (91W), and training regimen during AIT (tech school), and description of AMEDD all ring true to me -- I was stationed there in 2000-2002. So, I'm fairly certain that he is, indeed, a combat medic currently serving in Iraq. And yes - medics do accompany the "fighting" soldiers on many/most missions.

Benefit of the doubt goes to Botter, but I am still just a wee bit concerned about the "Spinning Webs" reference.

By: Mars Saxman

Mars Saxman — Sat, 20 Dec 2003 09:33:15 -0800

There is some precedent in favor of the post. When the Seattle earthquake hit, I made a post that basically just said "wow, a big ol' earthquake just happened", and didn't even provide a link (none of the news outlets had picked up on it yet). People loved it and the thread went on for pages even though it was blatant "newsfilter" stuff.

I think Metafilter's standards have grown tighter over the years; I wouldn't do the same thing if the situation came around again. But we have at least sometimes bent the rules for people who have a firsthand account of something newsworthy.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Sat, 20 Dec 2003 09:51:27 -0800

Because yer such tight-asses, you must shit diamonds.

It's a first-person account of action taken during a current, controversial war, and even more, it's an account of one of the most important missions of the war. How can anyone complain about what is unquestionably a wholly unique, well-written, detailed, and insightful glimpse into current events?

Diamonds, man. It's got to be diamonds.

By: whatnotever

whatnotever — Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:39:12 -0800

Personally, I don't doubt that it's real, but I do suspect that it's not entirely a case of "soldier wants to share with the world." There is no doubt that he has to at least run it by some higher ups to make sure he doesn't say anything he shouldn't and that the whole thing has been officially approved. Who knows what other kinds of feedback or advice he gets. Was this his idea, or some official thinking, "Hey, a first-hand account of that raid in someone's blog would be great PR!"

Does it matter?

By: sgt.serenity

sgt.serenity — Sat, 20 Dec 2003 10:44:29 -0800

How can anyone complain about what is unquestionably a wholly unique, well-written, detailed, and insightful glimpse into current events?

when its fake , basically.
btw i would love it to be true , but my alarm bell is ringing , so what can i do ?
my first reaction was "how can people complain about this ?" then i saw his first blog entry , so there we are.

By: JJBotter

JJBotter — Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:05:13 -0800

For those who want some confirmation on my story, you can read the following newspaper article:

http://www.thepilot.com/news/121703Soldier.html

It confirms that, indeed, most of us were informed before the raid that HVT1 -- Saddam -- was the target for the evening's activities.

Now, I'm sure some will say that I'm probably just faking the whole thing, so I'll take a picture of me standing by the 1-10 Cav sign here at FOB Saber tomorrow -- holding a MetaFilter sign. If that (and the hundreds of other photos in my album) don't prove it, well, there's no use in trying. :-)

By: wells

wells — Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:21:16 -0800

Right on!

By: mathowie

mathowie — Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:26:32 -0800

I'll take a picture of me standing by the 1-10 Cav sign here at FOB Saber tomorrow -- holding a MetaFilter sign.

I'll assume you're joking, but that'd be a very cool thing if you did it.

By: JJBotter

JJBotter — Sat, 20 Dec 2003 12:34:00 -0800

No joking. :-) I'll do it first thing tomorrow morning and post the picture around 3pm ET tomorrow evening. Call it a token of thanks for all the comments that ya'll have afforded me. :-)

By: sgt.serenity

sgt.serenity — Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:50:29 -0800

give me a shoutout then !

By: sgt.serenity

sgt.serenity — Sat, 20 Dec 2003 13:53:19 -0800

seeing as i stuck up for you so loyally and courageously : )

By: me3dia

me3dia — Sat, 20 Dec 2003 15:46:23 -0800

Rock on, JJBotter. And good for you for taking the skeptics in stride.

By: wendell

wendell — Sat, 20 Dec 2003 16:17:23 -0800

Matt, if any post deserves immortalizing on the usually-ignored MeFi side bar, JJ's does.

Of course, I expect the picture to show up at 3PM tomorrow Iraq time, not Peoria time... otherwise, BUSTED! I kid beause I'm a jerk...

By: crunchburger

crunchburger — Sat, 20 Dec 2003 16:38:50 -0800

I'll take a picture of me standing by the 1-10 Cav sign here at FOB Saber tomorrow -- holding a MetaFilter sign.

Bring pancakes! Big, fat, pancakes - just like in the Navy!

By: mr_crash_davis

mr_crash_davis — Sat, 20 Dec 2003 23:30:26 -0800

From Jeremy's site:

"We have another important mission tonight that you'll probably be hearing about on the news tomorrow called Operation Holiday Inn, so hopefully I'll have even more stories to share with you in the near future."

Keep your head down, mate.

By: sgt.serenity

sgt.serenity — Sun, 21 Dec 2003 04:31:12 -0800

oh , i've been talking nonsense , humble apologies !

By: mathowie

mathowie — Sun, 21 Dec 2003 19:11:43 -0800

here's the picture. Thanks JJ

By: yhbc

yhbc — Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:13:26 -0800

Cool. Good on you, Jeremy. Please take care.

By: five fresh fish

five fresh fish — Sun, 21 Dec 2003 21:40:35 -0800

Photoshop! It's a photoshop job, I tell ya!

By: fullerine

fullerine — Tue, 23 Dec 2003 00:54:47 -0800

Wow, I'm kinda confused, this post, it's not fake?. I think this may be the first time a miserable old cynic like myself is very happy to be proved wrong. (First reaction, yeah right, this is a crock).

It really does seem that everyone who's cool is already a member.

Whatever I feel about the current situation in Iraq, keep your head down JJBotter and see if you can bring you and your colleagues home safely.

That said, can we *really* be sure that the picture..... yeah I'm a jerk too