July 7, 2004

5:55 PM

ParisParamus, 4 am JST : "How long will there will cowards logged into Metafilter?"

ParisParamus, 10:37 am JST : "Metafilter: keeping as many liberal and pacifist a-holes inside, so they do the least amount of damage possible in the real world."
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken to etiquette/policy at 5:55 PM (100 comments total)

I'm pretty sure this is dunderheaded vitriol, not black comedy, given his posting history....ignore the trolls, I know, but jiminy crickets! Whatever is to be done?

*fans self with hanky*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:58 PM on July 7, 2004

Laugh at him and move on down the road, waiting til he crosses a line where Matt would actually want to intervene?

If you weren't allowed to be an asshole on metafilter, neither you nor me would still be here.
posted by Hildago at 6:03 PM on July 7, 2004

How many leftist defeatists can fit inside a Metafilter? - ParisParamus

He could be reasonable, but chooses not to most of the time. Perhaps a mandatory time-out is in order.
posted by BlueTrain at 6:07 PM on July 7, 2004

100 children imprisoned? Depending on the circumstances, that might be preferable to not being in prison for them. And, like, we should really take moral assessments made by those UN, EU-loving Germans to mean that much. FUCK'M
posted by ParisParamus at 1:44 PM PST on July 7


I'm with stavros on this one. Overboard.
posted by lazaruslong at 6:08 PM on July 7, 2004

I'm not suggesting that the above linked comment is reasonable; it's just another example of his trolling.
posted by BlueTrain at 6:08 PM on July 7, 2004

What's to be done with him? He says we should "give up arguing reason to people who are living in their own private domain," and that seems perfectly applicable.

I used to think he was simply the other side. Then I thought he was a radical. Then I realized he's a racist armchair general, and most of what he does best is make himself look comically bad. Seriously, let him fly, let him be free. A lot of hate-filled warmongers are silent runners, the nice man and woman next door. At least this one's cock is hanging right out of his fly for all to see.
posted by scarabic at 6:17 PM on July 7, 2004

Frankly I'm surprised that Paris can even find the time to post to MetaFilter seeing as how he's off in Iraq practicing what he preaches.
posted by filmgoerjuan at 6:17 PM on July 7, 2004

He's an asshole. But his rhetoric isn't any more over-the-top and unacceptable than some leftist rhetoric that you haven't called-out, Stav.

I really think there is a double-standard here. Might I take this opportunity to repeat my delight in the image of someone skull-fucking Ronald Reagan's corpse?

You should call me out on that one.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 6:24 PM on July 7, 2004

The Tyrrany of Evenhandedness strikes again. Thanks for that, EB.

/retch
posted by lazaruslong at 6:34 PM on July 7, 2004

"Metafilter: keeping as many liberal and pacifist a-holes inside, so they do the least amount of damage possible in the real world."

But really, this is actually kind of witty and funny, and I'm not being sarcastic. Yeah, PP is a twit, but he's OUR twit.
posted by ashbury at 6:39 PM on July 7, 2004

lazaruslong¹, I'm only repeating something I wrote repeatedly in the Reagan thread and which was not called-out at the time.

I meant it, too. Still do.

Anyway, it's easier to use something I've posted as an example than someone else's—that way, no one feels threatened by the example.

I'm not going to go on and on about this. I try to stay out of MeTa these days, not just for my mental health, but also because it's Not Fun. But, honestly, people say a lot of hateful things with a leftist bent here that don't ruffle feathers—and of course they don't, since we're more to the left than the right. That's inevitable. But that's not an excuse for trying to make such natural hypocrosy into a rule...or claiming that it's rational to do so (on that basis).

(If you want to just say that MeFi likes lefty rants but hates righty rants, then that's fine.)

1Shouldn't you be off screwing your mother or something, Woodrow?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 6:42 PM on July 7, 2004

Ethereal Bligh,

I was actually not bothered by the image itself. It's the point you were trying to make that makes my stomach turn. Essentially trying to nullify this callout by saying that there are as many equally callout-worthy things being said by the "other side" presupposses a couple things:

First, that there are in fact as many trolling lefties as righties. Its tough to make a value judgment on a supposed double-standard without going through a lot of comments and finding trolls, and the trolls' political bias, and then comparing the respective amounts. Saying that there is just as much of this crap on the other side just doesn't register any value with me without a lot of evidence. My general impression is that the number of trolls over all is probably around even, but the number of trolls who are as outspoken and disgusting as PP or any of his bretheren (BadCommie? 111?) tend to be on right (and i say right with a whoppingly large grain of salt, as I wouldn't lump in our educated, articualate conservative contingent with them). But then, I can't state that as fact, as I don't have the evidence on hand either.

Second, and this is what really sets me off, is this implied idea that we should, if we are going to callout ParisParamus on his bullshit recently, be calling out everyone else too, or else we don't have a leg to stand on. I don't buy that crap. There's a lot of assholes on this site that probably deserve to get booted or timed-out. We deal with them as we go along.

But, honestly, people say a lot of hateful things with a leftist bent here that don't ruffle feathers—and of course they don't, since we're more to the left than the right. That's inevitable.

I see your point here. It's probably true, to some extent. But we aren't talking about ruffled feathers. We're talking about ParisParamus, and his incessant trolling. He isn't going on a "righty rant" that pisses people off because the ideology he espouses is contraty to their own. Hell, I'd like to see Paris actually set out his beliefs in a rant like fashion. But he doesn't. What he does like to do is drop a one liner in a thread, maybe two or three times if he isn't getting the splashes he likes, that is as filled with crap as he can possible cram into his cpu. It's getting really old. And really smelly.

And no. I am going to be off screwing PP's mother. I figure since he is having so much fun screwing with MetaFilter lately, he won't mind if I screw something he cares about too. But thanks for that little dismissal there, hon, and for name dropping Woodrow so everyone knows how well you can read. It's easy to make your point when you totally write off the rebuttal before it even happens, isn't it?
posted by lazaruslong at 6:57 PM on July 7, 2004

"Metafilter: keeping as many liberal and pacifist a-holes inside, so they do the least amount of damage possible in the real world." - Paris is an artist - hiding his tactic in plain site, he disguises it as a sarcastic quip.

Notice how he can announce his method in such a way that it blows past everyone's notice that he's just tricked people here into wasting their life's energy rather than spending it on more signficant matters. Paris poked this beehive with a stick and then ran away. Now, all the bees fly around in angry circles hunting for the foe, and stinging each other, until they become exhausted and fall asleep.


Soon though, Paris will creep back - with great stealth, and.....

WHACK! run away! run away!


bzzzzzzzzzz
posted by troutfishing at 7:13 PM on July 7, 2004

Oh, come on, you don't want PP gone. Without our token right wing psycho, who would you have to bitch about?
posted by jonmc at 7:48 PM on July 7, 2004

Like the old man next door who still keeps a gun in his bedside drawer incase the godless Russians invade.
posted by Jimbob at 7:50 PM on July 7, 2004

I know Paris - why do I, do I love Paris? - and he's a civilized individual, who's been around and is not a stranger to the world at large. I've talked to him on the phone. He's polite, affable and, from what I can gather, a great guy.

I enjoy his contributions here, although they're lazy, hastily written and unnecessarily provocative (in fact, a bit "look at me"). He won't be cowed or made to change his opinion. I find his comments truly honest and sincere (a combination more difficult than may seem to those who think of honesty and sincerity as synonyms) and, given the mind-set here, refreshing and welcome.

Like many of us here, he exaggerates - by hyperbole and by reduction - but his opinions are representative and widespread. I hope he never gives up - although I often agree with him, I think his greater benefit is to those who disagree.

He's a bit of a comedian (he claims to hate Europe and the French) but that makes him all the more charming. The three key words to his provocations - he is an agent provocateur - are "tongue", "in", and "cheek".

Do not frighten him off!
posted by MiguelCardoso at 7:57 PM on July 7, 2004

Miguel, I just have to ask....is there anyone you don't like? Because I'm starting to conclude that you're the reincarnation of Will Rogers.

Although I will add that I've actually met PP and he seemed like a perfectly ordinary guy.
posted by jonmc at 8:00 PM on July 7, 2004

LL, I didn't mean anything in particular with my LL reference. I was just making a comment to show I recognize your nickname. If I were trying to prove my erudition, believe me, I'd choose something other than Heinlein. But I grew up reading Heinlein like lots of folks did, so it's fun to show that I recocognize the reference. Again, I didn't mean anything dismissive or derogatory by it. (For the audience: LL goes back in time, where he meets, falls in love with, and has sex with his mother. Also his real name is Woodrow Wilson (Smith?), named after the contemporaneous President.)

On Preview: jonmc, Miguel has made it clear that he doesn't like me. So there ya' go: at least one person he doesn't like.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:08 PM on July 7, 2004

Miguel, I just have to ask....is there anyone you don't like?

Angelos Charisteas, perhaps?
posted by trondant at 8:09 PM on July 7, 2004

He's a bit of a comedian (he claims to hate Europe and the French) but that makes him all the more charming. The three key words to his provocations - he is an agent provocateur - are "tongue", "in", and "cheek".

TROLL. for fuck's sake, the word you are looking for is troll.
posted by bargle at 8:13 PM on July 7, 2004

If Ethereal Bligh and Miguel Cardoso ever met in real life, they would collapse on each other, cease to exist, and emit photons in their place.
posted by Jimbob at 8:16 PM on July 7, 2004

On Preview: jonmc, Miguel has made it clear that he doesn't like me. So there ya' go: at least one person he doesn't like.

He didn't like me at first either. Trust me, EB, soon he'll be writing multi-paragraph paeans to your "poetic grumpiness," or some such shit like that.
posted by jonmc at 8:18 PM on July 7, 2004

jonmc, you've just given him the idea to write a multi-paragraph ironic paean to the qualities he and everyone else despises in me.

Thanks, from the bottom of my heart. Really.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:24 PM on July 7, 2004

Trust me, EB, he'll warm up. Most people who hated me at first warmed up once they figured out what I was actually up to. And if it's any consolation, I dig your groovy vibe, funkateer.
posted by jonmc at 8:27 PM on July 7, 2004

Not me. heh.

ParisParamus and I had a pleasant exchange, once, at the end of a heated Metafilter thread. It was about the practicalities of toilet installation.

Predictably (I guess) the conversation migrated here

In a similar vein, David Dark and I both love habanero peppers.
posted by troutfishing at 8:27 PM on July 7, 2004

I see we have the usual gang of idiots ganging up on yet someone else. ;-P
posted by mischief at 8:29 PM on July 7, 2004

Meaning - it's quite clear to me that, if brain sucking aliens invade, we'll all be fighting for the home team.
posted by troutfishing at 8:29 PM on July 7, 2004

mischief - I guess you don't get it?
posted by troutfishing at 8:30 PM on July 7, 2004

Strip away everything which makes us different, right down to the nubbins, and we're all nubbinses; we're still different, but we can't wave our hands or anything.
posted by Opus Dark at 8:41 PM on July 7, 2004

Opus Dark - Yup, agreed.
posted by troutfishing at 8:56 PM on July 7, 2004

But, honestly, people say a lot of hateful things with a leftist bent here that don't ruffle feathers—and of course they don't, since we're more to the left than the right.

Talking about skull-fucking Reagan's corpse is an irreverent thing to say, and offensive to those who admired the man from afar, but when PP said he looked forward to the liberation of my family's home country, and went on and on about how the lives of a few civilians would be "acceptable losses," in all seriousness, I hit my limit with the guy. Whether his politics are to the left or right, they're not worth the lives of my family, thank you very much.

I guess I'm being the equivalent of a military mom who smacks an anti-war protestor in the face and says "that's my *son* over there!" But no one else here shows a callous disregard for real human lives when they happen to be Arab lives. And despite our famous left-bent, I doubt anyone at MeFi here would tell someone "I'm glad your GI son went down in a helicopter, biatch!"

So I can't agree with you that this is just a leftist witch hunt. The guy really is a callous fuck, and his disregard for certain unlucky brown people is only rivalled by his distaste for the other people on this site.
posted by scarabic at 9:19 PM on July 7, 2004

I've asked all of you repeatedly not to reply to his posts!
posted by mcsweetie at 9:42 PM on July 7, 2004

but the number of trolls who are as outspoken and disgusting as PP or any of his bretheren (BadCommie? 111?) tend to be on right

That's easy to say when someone's on the troll's side of the fence. Being on the right, I think there's a lot more trolls/flamers/fill in creative word here on the left than the right and didn't consider some of our normal call-outs such as 111 trolls. To consider someone a troll, you usually have to first disagree with them...
posted by jmd82 at 9:51 PM on July 7, 2004

I know Paris - why do I, do I love Paris? - and he's a civilized individual, who's been around and is not a stranger to the world at large. I've talked to him on the phone. He's polite, affable and, from what I can gather, a great guy.

So what? 90% of the time he's a raving, nonsense-jiving lunatic on metafilter. I could care less what he does when he talks to you on the phone. If nothing else, it proves his badass posturing on metafilter is at best an agent of virtual courage. I wish I could say I was shocked.

I enjoy his contributions here, although they're lazy, hastily written and unnecessarily provocative (in fact, a bit "look at me"). He won't be cowed or made to change his opinion. I find his comments truly honest and sincere (a combination more difficult than may seem to those who think of honesty and sincerity as synonyms) and, given the mind-set here, refreshing and welcome.

If they're lazy, hastily written, and unnecessarily provacative, I can't see what's admirable about the fact that he refuses to change his often bigoted and poorly argued stances, even if they're given with the utmost honesty. I could say the same thing the grand wizard of the KKK: well, I gotta give that son of a bitch some credit, he's sure honest about his baseless hatred and he won't change his opinion for the world! Again, colour me unimpressed.

his opinions are representative and widespread.

What a frightening and tragically true statement.


I hope he never gives up - although I often agree with him, I think his greater benefit is to those who disagree.

If he made cogent, convincing arguments then I'd agree with you. However, his blatantly pro-America (the bad America, I might add) xenophobia is neither though-provoking nor interesting--his (unintentionally) comical delivery isn't either.


It's a very strange--and I think western--belief (one Matt espoused earlier in another thread) that all of us should be "in this together" and at the end of the day we should be able to go have a beer with one another. If we're talking about minor differences, maybe, but I really can't say that I have any desire to have a beer with someone who supports immoral wars, or the genocide of Palestinians, or the bigoted desire to limit the rights of homosexuals (all things suggested by at least one member of metafilter). In these cases we're not talking about minor differences in taxation levels or social welfare--we're instead talking about very fundamental differences in character.

Hey, dude, I know you're all for killing the arabs in Palestine and rightfully returning the blood-stained land to the Israelis, not to mention your whole zionist zeitgeist, but maybe after work we could go get a pint of the finest ale at our local watering hole and talk about the Red Sox?
posted by The God Complex at 10:04 PM on July 7, 2004

I'm telling ya TGC, sit the world's enemies together over a frosty mug pitcher keg of beer and the world'de be a much friendlier place.
posted by jmd82 at 10:22 PM on July 7, 2004

What we really need are some card carrying members of IJC.
posted by Keyser Soze at 10:51 PM on July 7, 2004

jmd82: this is precisely why Bush's found-jesus dry-drunk condition is so dangerous :)
posted by Space Coyote at 10:52 PM on July 7, 2004

But his rhetoric isn't any more over-the-top and unacceptable than some leftist rhetoric that you haven't called-out, Stav.

And?

I noticed PP being insupportably obnoxious in a serial way; I thought perhaps a light spanking might incline him to rein it in a touch, thereby making the MeFi world a brighter, kinder place, full of puppies and sunshine, and thus brought it up.

Most of us behave poorly once in a while, but rarely with as much consistency and unpleasantness as Mr Paramus has been today (and in recent times in general, for that matter).

*shrugs*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:57 PM on July 7, 2004

Nah. Yer right. There's the well-crafted abrasive persona, the thorn in the side of the complacent leftist, and then there's just downright mean, shallow, stupid.
posted by scarabic at 11:08 PM on July 7, 2004

Further, if someone wants to 'call out' a 'lefty' -- kindergarten time around here, thanks to idiotic reductionism like that, but such is the Metafilter we know and love today -- then they are welcome indeed to do so. I don't really care. If it contributes to raising the collective IQ, it's all to the good.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:09 PM on July 7, 2004

Yet if someone what to 'call out' a 'righty,' by all means, step to the head of the class.
posted by jmd82 at 11:18 PM on July 7, 2004

I ♥ chicobangs. That is all.
posted by eddydamascene at 12:03 AM on July 8, 2004

And I thought the Asparagirl callout yesterday was The Most Worthless MetaTalk thread...
posted by hama7 at 6:26 AM on July 8, 2004

Has PP personally threatened, or even humiliated any of you? If so, yeah, Matt needs to know and PP needs a timeout. Until then, IMHO, vent if you want, but he's the drunk, loud, lecherous (metaphorically speaking) uncle of the family reunion, and there's really not much to do but ignore him and quietly shield the newbies from his tourettic posts.
posted by mkultra at 6:41 AM on July 8, 2004

STUPID THREAD ALERT

Let's all go get ice cream!
posted by angry modem at 6:43 AM on July 8, 2004

Ban 'em all and let God sort 'em out.
posted by rushmc at 7:35 AM on July 8, 2004

To consider someone a troll, you usually have to first disagree with them...

absolutely not. Allah knows that I'm totally _not_ a Bush fan, but, say, I'd call "troll" if people would link pics of Bush-as-chimp in a politics thread or would yell IMPEACH BUSH and leaving the thread (just like, on the opposite side of the fence, FreedomParamus likes to do -- even Miguel calls FreedomParamus comments "lazy", for fuck's sake). even if I agree with the main thrust of the argument (incompetent president --> should probably be impeached) I wouldn't agree with the modus operandi of the poster. I wouldn't like FreedomParamus' m.o. even if I agreed with him

not to mention, he often ends up being (involuntarily, of course) funny as hell
posted by matteo at 8:35 AM on July 8, 2004

Ethereal Bligh hit the nail on the head. There's lefty vitriol here daily, including Bligh's example (his own), that is the height of idiotic, rhetorical, childish, hatred and no one bats an eye.

The wonderchicken is simply showing his luny lefty side or just wants some attention. Either way, a waste of a thread.
posted by Dennis Murphy at 10:34 AM on July 8, 2004

I doubt anyone at MeFi here would tell someone "I'm glad your GI son went down in a helicopter, biatch!"

I wouldn't say it to her face, but I would probably say it on metafilter unless there were mitigating circumstances that made me care about the loss of one of our hired killers. In fact--and this supports your thesis--I have said as much in the past, and it was not, to my recollection, greeted with approval by metafilter users as a group.
posted by Hildago at 10:45 AM on July 8, 2004

I wouldn't say it to her face, but I would probably say it on metafilter unless there were mitigating circumstances that made me care about the loss of one of our hired killers.

You know Hildago, on a certain level I admire your sheer balls in expressing such a unpopular opinion, but on another level what you say is such a revolting insult to every war veteran* that it inflames people to the point that it obscures any valid point you might want to make. And that is where fire breathing rhetoric of any persuasion becomes a destructive or at least counter-productive force.

*not to mention nonsensical: you object to killing on the grounds of the sanctity of human life by proclaiming that you "don't care" about the death of someone. Pretzel logic, that.
posted by jonmc at 11:13 AM on July 8, 2004

He won't be cowed or made to change his opinion.

Therein lies the problem. Paris bears approximately the same relationship to Metafilter as a drive-by spammer. He doesn't converse, he doesn't participate; he just drops his nugget of preachiness into a thread and leaves us to absorb its manifest wisdom. He seems to confuse forceful statement with compelling argument, as though he can convince us by simply repeating his opinion in ever more dramatic, uncompromising terms.

In short, he's a complete bore; a self-martyring missionary who isn't even trying to succeed and keeps blathering on about the faith because it makes him feel superior.

I think I could forgive him for his lengthy history of wasted bytes if he came down off his high horse and actually participated in conversation instead of just halfheartedly trying to dominate it, but I don't think he cares enough to bother. He's just going to hang around pestering us until he finds an easier target to pick on.
posted by Mars Saxman at 11:39 AM on July 8, 2004

I've got one working hand at the moment, so I won't respond in the sense of getting into a long debate about this again.

(Naturally, you're absolutely wrong for disagreeing with me.)

My point this time, though, was just that scarabic has it pretty much right as far as metafilter consistency goes. Generally the community is good about calling out what it sees as trollish bullshit no matter where it comes from ideologically.
posted by Hildago at 11:43 AM on July 8, 2004

Hidalgo: "I wouldn't say it to her face, but I would probably say it on metafilter unless there were mitigating circumstances that made me care about the loss of one of our hired killers."

Damn, that's nasty.

You don't see a problem taking satisfaction in an individuals death while screaming for peace? What the fuck is wrong with you?

You sir, have no decency.
posted by cedar at 11:59 AM on July 8, 2004

One working hand? Spanking it to a MeTa debate is gross.
posted by yerfatma at 11:59 AM on July 8, 2004

If you were spanking it to a MeTa debate, which hand would be the "working" hand?
posted by kindall at 1:27 PM on July 8, 2004

what you say is such a revolting insult to every war veteran*

Unless you are a war veteran, jonmc, then your statement is even more insulting for presuming to speak for war veterans. This is also why I want to smack people like Toby Keith and all the other faux patriots who crawled from under their rocks in recent years.
posted by mischief at 1:57 PM on July 8, 2004

I wouldn't say it to her face, but I would probably say it on metafilter

You mean you might say it sometime/somewhere on MeFi? Or specifically in a thread where the grieving mother was posting? I'm presuming you mean the former, in which case I agree with you.

One of the tricky things about being in a room full of 17,000 people is you never know who you're gonna offend. There might actually be a black vegetarian mortician sitting right next to you who doesn't appreicate your carrot jokes.
posted by scarabic at 1:57 PM on July 8, 2004

Metafilter: insupportably obnoxious in a serial way.¹
posted by piskycritter at 2:38 PM on July 8, 2004

There might actually be a black vegetarian mortician

"You know what this means son . . . we're in the minority!"
posted by yerfatma at 3:04 PM on July 8, 2004

I'm surprised that J. G. Ballard didn't get directly quoted in this thread, as he has articles about fucking Ronald Reagan, and Lyndon Johnson having sex with Kennedy's corpse (of which I will not elaborate further) but I thought that Ethereal Bligh was referencing that, but I guess not.

... oops, in looking up a link, it turns out I was thinking of "The Parts Left Out of the Kennedy Book" by Paul Krassner for the Kennedy / Johnson Part, although I could have sworn it was mentioned by Ballard as well.
posted by milovoo at 3:41 PM on July 8, 2004

By the way, I grant the point that PP is like this all the time and that changes things. The thread's dead ("Thread's dead, baby, thread's dead."), but stav and others make good points above.

Nah, what I've really been trying to do was emulate Wonkette, except replace her trademark "ass fucking" references with "Reagan skull-fucking" references and the "funny" with boring tedium.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:52 PM on July 8, 2004

The wonderchicken is simply showing his luny lefty side or just wants some attention. Either way, a waste of a thread.

Dennis, I'd be in your debt if you'd care to explain why drawing attention to this kind of behaviour from anyone is a 'waste of a thread' (letting alone the oddball idea that there is somehow a limited supply of threads, and that they can be wasted).

Contrary to the suggestion that seems to be implicit in your comment, I don't give a flying fuck what the inclination of your vote might be, or the tenor of your political belief. It's the contents of your heart that interest me -- as nearly and inaccurately as I am able to get a handle on them -- and as far as I am able to recall my state of mind at the time of posting, I was thinking entirely of the gross boobitude of one user going out of his way to hurl what he perceived to be insults and imprecations at the rest of the community.

Vote for who you wish, Dennis. Be a 'luny lefty' or a 'baby-raping Republican', for all I care. Make bibble-bibble noises about 'war for oil' or other bibble-bibble noises about 'cowards and commies'. I don't care. But if you're an asshole, and you get up my nose, I'll step on your dick. And maybe post a Metatalk thread about it.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:02 PM on July 8, 2004

PS. Good morning, Metafilter!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:05 PM on July 8, 2004

I am glad to have alternative view points here, like PP. That said, I wish he would actually take on the liberals rather than just post trollish comments. Someone like DavidDark can really give you an argument. PP usually just teases. I don't want everyone to agree with me, I want them to not just tell me I am wrong, but show me why (well not too successfully).

As for the comments in question, these are pretty mild for a call out. They aren't personal attacks, just swipes at the group. The second one was actually kind of funny. Let it pass.
posted by caddis at 4:48 PM on July 8, 2004

I am glad to have alternative view points here, like PP.

As am I. I would welcome more, but only if they were, as you say, able to do more than throw rocks and regurgitate talking points. I'm compelled to repeat, though(perhaps in a more direct fashion), that it's a shame that things have gotten to the point where it smells like ideological gang warfare in half the discussions on the blue.

As for the comments in question, these are pretty mild for a call out. They aren't personal attacks, just swipes at the group.

I am inclined to disagree, but that's life. *shrugs again*
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:32 PM on July 8, 2004

just swipes at the group.

The fact that they're swipes at the group rather than individuals is the funniest part of all, a sure sign of bigotry and low intelligence.
posted by Jimbob at 6:20 PM on July 8, 2004

Would you accept throwing talking points and regurgitating rocks? My pica's acting up agin'.
posted by yerfatma at 7:13 PM on July 8, 2004

When I first started with MeFi Paris and I had a little something in common and we even exchanged a few emails. Since then things have changed -- maybe it was 9-11, maybe something else, but the man has seriously gone to another place where I do not care to tread. The exchanges we had those days ago was hors politiques but now he is so far gone I could not possibly brush aside our differences -- present from the start.

Plus: his constant bashing of France has reached levels which I can no longer even smirk at -- my wife is French after all, and I live there most of the time; one can only stay in the same room with someone who spews such venom for so long.

(I'm a bit buzzed tonight and this is my third pointless post in the last ten minutes. Excuse me while I bow out of this poor display on my part.)
posted by Dick Paris at 7:26 PM on July 8, 2004

PP just cancels out nofundy in my opinion. So, we're even (sorta).
posted by Witty at 7:49 PM on July 8, 2004

I'm sitting on Miguel's lap. I'm nuzzling into his tobacco-sweetened cummerbund. ParisParamus is only a faraway sound. I can barely hear it. Miguel smiled at me. He gave me his protective amulet to play with. It's bronze and heavy and old and it says "European! Conservative". I think it can also be used as a weapon. Whenever Miguel tries to hoist little Stavie up onto his lap, Stavie runs away. I don't understand Stavie. It's so peaceful here. I even like it when Miguel sloshes bourbon on my head. It smells grand and grown up and full of promise and it feels warm as it drips past my temples.
posted by Opus Dark at 8:47 PM on July 8, 2004 [1 favorite has favorites]

awww (but kinda pedophilic, no?)
posted by amberglow at 9:58 PM on July 8, 2004

Miguel as Humbert, verily.
posted by scarabic at 10:57 PM on July 8, 2004

Opus, thanks for raising the MeFi-MeTa Whimsey Quotient (WQ). That was magical in at least a dozen different ways. I love this community!
posted by marsha56 at 11:07 PM on July 8, 2004

This is also why I want to smack people like Toby Keith and all the other faux patriots who crawled from under their rocks in recent years.

Yes, mischief, because you have the unerring ability to determine precisely which Patriots are sincere/genuine/true, and which ones are false.

/feh

And FWIW -- I enjoy having PP around here, because often he is the only one in a thread that isn't calling me an idiot or such. It's nice to have at least ONE person in my corner, sometimes.
posted by davidmsc at 11:15 PM on July 8, 2004

davidmsc, you are misunderstanding mischief's statement. He said he disliked 'the' faux patriots, and that they have come out of the woodwork. Unless you believe that such faux patriots do not exist at all, then you are mischaracterizing michief's comment. He did not say ".. and I can tell immediately which are which" he just bemoaned that the fake ones are taking advantage of the real ones, and giving Toby Keith as his only example, who happens to have enjoyed much financial success post 9/11.

Some battles just aren't worth fighting, you know.
posted by Space Coyote at 11:30 PM on July 8, 2004

I <3 Opus Dark.
posted by mr.marx at 3:09 AM on July 9, 2004

Some battles just aren't worth fighting : I'll hang with that, especially since you worded it so well.

Next dragon...
posted by mischief at 4:28 AM on July 9, 2004

Opus: a nice, big, brand new Vacheron Constantin pocket watch, complete with silver chain and secret brandy container, is on its way. Treat it well and it will repay your kindness with years of loyal service. Please note how, if you hold it up in the dark during a thunderstorm and hold your breath, the words "Time is of the essence" appear miraculously projected in enormous mauve letters on the ceiling, in French.

Thanks to modern technology, there's a microchip implanted in the case, so if you hock it, I'll know. And not even the Hoover Dam itself will be able to contain my tears, you rapscallion.
posted by MiguelCardoso at 6:05 AM on July 9, 2004

I thought Terry Southern was reponsible for the Johnson/Kennedy thing...

Either way...ugh.
posted by ghastlyfop at 6:21 AM on July 9, 2004

And davidmsc, just because PP hasn't called you an idiot doesn't mean he doesn't think you are one.
posted by ghastlyfop at 6:23 AM on July 9, 2004

Most of you all dont know me, and certainly Miguel hasnt offered any sonnets to my valuable contributions (and hey, it's okay! I lurk mostly.), but the situation with PP seems pretty straightforward to me. We like (even when we don't) his opinion about the world and such, but when an argument goes from the topic to personal attacks (like calling us cowards), its over the line.

My opinion has always been, disagree all you want, but dont insult or disrespect me. PP has at times stepped over that line and in those cases, why not do something about it? Everyone here deserves respect and shouldnt be maligned in any way. Our opinions dont deserve crap though, since they are just opinions. You dont like my opinion, bring it on then!!!!

But hey, usually I keep my mouth shut and watch the flame war erupt. I love you all so much and totally dig watching you all go to bat for each other. So here I am stepping up for once and running some risk.

Oh, and LL, I was looking at your blog and realized that I may have been at Barley's at the same time as you. Coooooool.
posted by Dantien at 9:15 AM on July 9, 2004

I'm sitting on Miguel's lap. I'm nuzzling into his tobacco-sweetened cummerbund. ParisParamus is only a faraway sound. I can barely hear it. Miguel smiled at me. He gave me his protective amulet to play with. It's bronze and heavy and old and it says "European! Conservative". I think it can also be used as a weapon. Whenever Miguel tries to hoist little Stavie up onto his lap, Stavie runs away. I don't understand Stavie. It's so peaceful here. I even like it when Miguel sloshes bourbon on my head. It smells grand and grown up and full of promise and it feels warm as it drips past my temples...

...and it tickles as his hand slips between my supple thighs.
posted by quonsar at 2:09 PM on July 9, 2004

Oh, and LL, I was looking at your blog and realized that I may have been at Barley's at the same time as you. Coooooool.

This is very interesting to me. Another South Carolinian in our midst? You should stop lurking so much and help me out here, buddy!

A couple more of us and perhaps I can finally get a SouthKakuhlack-ee meetup planned at some point. See failed attempt here.


And I must say that using the term 'blog' to describe my lj brought a little, undeserved tear to my eye.
posted by lazaruslong at 2:56 PM on July 9, 2004

Why do none of you have a detectable sense of humor? And, why are so many here blind to the value of hyperbole?

My opinions are not put-ons; and I am not the reincarnation of Andy Kaufman. Metafilter is just so skewed towards one side of the political spectrum, and so many people have such a lack of decorum, that this place cries out for creative, hopefully clever, attention-getting language.

I am not a troll. I'm actually, on most issues, Left of Center. But not on national security; and not on holding up Europe as a model of competent government.

You know, if someone who is, at worst, a mediocre President, wasn't treated like the reincarnation of the devil here, I'd have no job to do.

But I do.
posted by ParisParamus at 7:01 PM on July 9, 2004

I got a job for you. In my pants.
posted by lazaruslong at 8:51 PM on July 9, 2004

SNAP
posted by lazaruslong at 8:51 PM on July 9, 2004

Your mother sits on the TV and watches the couch. The reason for this? She's of below-average intelligence.
posted by dhoyt at 11:47 PM on July 9, 2004

PP just cancels out nofundy in my opinion. So, we're even (sorta).

Gospel!
posted by dhoyt at 11:50 PM on July 9, 2004

so many people have such a lack of decorum, that this place cries out for creative, hopefully clever, attention-getting language

A statement both ironic and self-serving, especially as the central point of the post--the lame, stupid personal attacks upon other members--was so inadroitly sidestepped.
posted by y2karl at 12:31 AM on July 10, 2004

I see no personal attacks upon other members -- only generalizations toward a subset. If that subset happens to be a large subset, well that's just a statistical aggregation, isn't it? It seems hardly fair to blame PP for users who consider themselves cowards taking offense at the word.
posted by David Dark at 1:54 AM on July 10, 2004

That's it, Davey-boy -- you hit the nail on the proverbial head! I posted this thread because I consider myself a coward, and was distressed and offended when PP, in his inimitably insightful way, pointed it out for all the world to see, and in the absolute tizzy I was thrown into, I thought that drawing more attention to the epithets would be a good idea to assuage the pain of my secret shame.

Spot on, Watson.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:15 AM on July 10, 2004

Ah, now I see. It is fine to hurl personal insults as long as you are insulting lots of people at the same time. Thanks for clearing that up, David Dark.
posted by dg at 3:23 AM on July 10, 2004

It is fine to hurl personal insults as long as you are insulting lots of people at the same time.

I love group denial. ;-P
posted by mischief at 6:02 AM on July 10, 2004

Paris: OK, so you're shooting for the comic gadfly role. I can understand that, and you're right: there is a lot of hyperbole here, and counter-hyperbole could be funny. But you've missed an essential component of the role. If I mock and insult a random stranger, they'll either take offense or just assume I'm an idiot with no social sense and ignore me. But I can josh and tease my friends, and they'll laugh and respond in kind. What's the difference? My friends know I like them, and know I'm trying to be funny. We do things together, spend time together, help each other out; if I toss off some comic insult, they don't have to wonder what my motives are.

You, sir, have failed to establish the fact that you like us, or to act like you think you are one of us. Heckling is your only mode of participation. When you mock and insult, it doesn't come across as a friendly attempt to bring the hyperbole back down to earth; it comes across as contempt and distaste. Your post suggests that you think of yourself as above the community, somehow, that you provide some essential service - "this place cries out for", "I'd have no job to do", etc. You remain a stranger here, apparently by your own choice, so people respond to your attempts at pointed humor as they would to a stranger.

If you truly want to succeed in the role you've chosen for yourself, you need to come down from your lofty perch and join the mortals. Participate in discussions even when you agree with people. Participate in conversations about things other than politics. Establish your bona fides. Then when you make horribly insulting comments like the ones linked at the top of this thread, perhaps people will be able to look a little past the surface and wonder whether, perhaps, maybe you don't mean it quite as badly as it sounds.
posted by Mars Saxman at 10:04 AM on July 10, 2004

Occassionally, I insult individual posters (primarily because the poster's comment is inviting it). but usually, I'm refering to a political outlook.

At its base, I still think you, who find my (more and more infrequent) contributions to Metafilter, seeking to ban people who don't tow the Mefi Lefty party line.

Perhaps the most pathetic aspect of all this is people who either think my positions are that extreme, or, can do no more as act as if they are. Obviously, everyone who gets excited about an issue, who doesn't think George W. Bush is the Devil is a troll--right?
posted by ParisParamus at 4:05 PM on July 10, 2004

You still don't get it PP, but then perhaps you never will. As Mars tried to explain, it's not about your politics, it's about you behaving like a complete asshole.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:15 PM on July 10, 2004

But if you're an asshole, and you get up my nose, I'll step on your dick.

All this, and a contortionist too! I heart you, stav.
posted by scody at 12:47 AM on July 11, 2004

I posted this thread because I consider myself a coward, and was distressed and offended when PP, in his inimitably insightful way, pointed it out for all the world to see, and in the absolute tizzy I was thrown into, I thought that drawing more attention to the epithets would be a good idea to assuage the pain of my secret shame.

I didn't say that's why you posted the thread, I said that's why you took offense. You posted the thread because you're an insufferable attention whore and you disagree with PP's politics. Was that point even in question for anyone?

It is fine to hurl personal insults as long as you are insulting lots of people at the same time.

Apparently, yes, if and only if those insults are directed at that group who dares not oppose Dear Leader, AWOL, and his crusade against the brown peoples.
posted by David Dark at 4:12 AM on July 11, 2004

Okay, maybe insufferable was a bit over the top. You're sufferable.
posted by David Dark at 4:17 AM on July 11, 2004

You silver tongued smoothie davy.
posted by johnnyboy at 8:01 AM on July 12, 2004