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This post is about as smart as a box of hammers.
August 13, 2004 11:51 AM   Subscribe

This post is about as smart as a box of hammers.
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood to MetaFilter-Related at 11:51 AM (98 comments total)

Yeah, but when you drop a box of hammers on your foot, it really smarts.
posted by wendell at 11:55 AM on August 13, 2004


"If you only have a hammer, you tend to see every problem as a nail."
-A. Maslow.
(Not snarking, just free-associating.)
posted by Shane at 12:13 PM on August 13, 2004


"Many hammer all over the wall and believe that with each blow they hit the nail on the head."

-Goethe


Gone now, but boy was that post a steamer.
posted by dhoyt at 12:28 PM on August 13, 2004


"Please Hammer, don't hurt 'em"

-- Sir M.C. Hammer's second album
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:40 PM on August 13, 2004


It's a hammer of justice.
posted by PrinceValium at 12:44 PM on August 13, 2004


How many hamsters are we talking about here? Hook a dozen or so up in parallel, and I'd bet you could get pretty close to MetaFilter's level.
posted by ChasFile at 12:53 PM on August 13, 2004


Once you can balance a tack hammer on your head, you will head off your foes with a balanced attack.
posted by kirkaracha at 1:23 PM on August 13, 2004


If I had a hammer, I'd hammer in the morning,
I'd hammer in the evening, all over this land;
I'd hammer out danger, I'd hammer out warning,
I'd hammer out love between my brothers and my sisters,
All over this land.

posted by mr_crash_davis at 1:44 PM on August 13, 2004


Post was posted nailed up by emotions. Which hammer has those?
posted by thomcatspike at 1:54 PM on August 13, 2004


posted
posted by thomcatspike at 1:56 PM on August 13, 2004


Nailed it!
posted by wendell at 1:58 PM on August 13, 2004


I’ll just have to chalk this up to my personal involvement driving me to post. This kind of thing pushes my buttons. So do people like Steve who instantly hop on the high horse and talk down to me like I’m some moron.

I rarely post anywhere, as it’s simply not worth the effort. Plus there’s always a ‘Steve’ waiting to pounce no matter what you say.

You can post about a boggle eyed mutant cat but you post something to which you feel is an important observation about how justice looses perspective and reason and you get shot down.

I don’t see why it matters that it’s a local news story. This isn’t the first time this kind of thing has been in the news more than once over the past few years. This country has taken nearly everything and blown it out of all sensible proportion. Come now, who in their right mind and in this day and age is going to take kiddy porn pictures then take them down to Kerr Drug to get developed? While now and then you used to hear about some perv who would do it they all know better now.

With that being said, and should anyone, care this is what I know:

The woman I work with is, in my judgment, a very trustworthy and honest person. She’s and naturalized citizen, is married, has a young son and is trying for #2. She speaks 3 languages and is highly intelligent. She’s also actively involved in the local Lebanese community. I.E. She’s a source I trust. Yes people can be fabulous liars but that’s not even on my radar.

Her husband did speak with the lawyer so what I heard came from the lawyer via the husband then through my friend. So it’s third hand but from what I consider a highly reliable source. Of course, nobody really cares about that since a lot of people here are often so jaded and antagonistic they assume everyone is a liar but them.

From living in the area can say the local cops, be it Raleigh, Cary or the other surrounding areas, are often none too bright over zealous bigots (Cary cops being hated the most out of the bunch). I fully expect this to be thrown out of court but this poor family likely been crucified for nothing.

Could there be more to the story? Possibly, but I find that very unlikely and I think this will turn out to be an excellent example of how reactionary law enforcement has become. It seems to me that the police have lost the ability to use reasonable judgment, especially when the subject is children and anything that could possibly be construed as sexual.

I should call my parents and see if my mum still have the negatives of some of the pictures she took of me when I was very young. Cutesy pictures of me running around the back yard naked with a hose. How much you want to bet I get the local boys in blue come knocking on my door? I would love to let them arrest me then tell them that those pictures are 30 years old and of myself. Hmmmmm....
posted by Hilfy at 2:01 PM on August 13, 2004


Hilfy, without the images, who can say?
posted by the fire you left me at 2:05 PM on August 13, 2004


I'm hammered
posted by matteo at 2:06 PM on August 13, 2004


I would love to let them arrest me then tell them that those pictures are 30 years old and of myself.

These days, it'd probably still be actionable.
posted by rushmc at 2:14 PM on August 13, 2004


The new rock/scissors/paper:

Box of hammers/bucket of cocks/?
posted by liam at 2:15 PM on August 13, 2004


/bag of dicks
posted by speedo at 2:31 PM on August 13, 2004


Hilfy, the point is that the post was unworthy of the frontpage. You essentially made an FPP out of local hearsay and your own editorializing. I realize the case riles you up and I do not doubt your friend's trustworthiness, and would not be totally surprised if the charges are unwarranted — but without pictures or any other substative sources or evidence whatsoever, any debate or discussion of the matter is pretty moot.
posted by rafter at 2:39 PM on August 13, 2004


Hilfy,
If you want to vent, GYOBF.
posted by Seth at 2:45 PM on August 13, 2004


and then the hammer came down / lord the hammer came down
posted by eyeballkid at 2:55 PM on August 13, 2004


Hilfy-- If you want to post something that won't get deleted, I suggest an FPP about furry porn.
posted by trharlan at 2:59 PM on August 13, 2004


Rafter: No, I realize it wasn't FPP worhty. When I say 'shot down' I'm not refering to the post being deleted but rather the monkies whose first bright idea is to spit vitriol.

What gets me too is this guy held on $500,000 bond while the kid in Apex, who last week got caught with over two dozen pipebombs in his car and at his house (Along with other bomb making materials), was held on $100,000 bond. If that doesn't sum up how f-ed up things are I don't know what does.

I'm just fed up. I lived abroad in Japan (mostly) for a number of years and it's given me a pretty interesting view on my home country. So much so that I feel ill at ease even being here even though I've been back for a good ten years now. Sure, other places have their oddities ,drawbacks, social problems etc but America, along with some other places as wel, just seems to be spining out of control in so many ways. I can't help feeling that Rome is burning again.

Very Funny trharlan. No, I think the furries get enough bashing from the bright folks over at POE.
posted by Hilfy at 3:05 PM on August 13, 2004


There have been a few similar cases in the past, and maybe if you had linked to those cases and also some historical controversies like the photographer Sally Mann, it would have been more acceptable (personally I thought it was OK, but I guess it did technically violate one of the style guidelines, under a strict interpretation)
posted by milovoo at 3:08 PM on August 13, 2004


Well, while I've been reading Metafilter for ages I'm a novice poster. :) And I was pretty ticked off at the time too.
posted by Hilfy at 3:13 PM on August 13, 2004


I'm just fed up. I lived abroad in Japan (mostly) for a number of years and it's given me a pretty interesting view on my home country. So much so that I feel ill at ease even being here even though I've been back for a good ten years now. Sure, other places have their oddities ,drawbacks, social problems etc but America, along with some other places as wel, just seems to be spining out of control in so many ways. I can't help feeling that Rome is burning again.
posted by Hilfy at 3:05 PM PST on August 13


Wow! Make with the melodrama and hyperbole, please!

We've had meltdowns with people swearing off MeFi before, but I think this comes the closest to someone having a meltdown and denouncing their citizenship.

Hilfy, I find your views intriguing. Where can I subscribe to your newsletter?
posted by Seth at 3:14 PM on August 13, 2004


Criminy, Seth.

I'm in a small minority here on Mefi, as someone who actually likes you, but I think you ought to stop berating hilfy. Everyone has made his/her point.
posted by trharlan at 3:21 PM on August 13, 2004


I find your views intriguing. Where can I subscribe to your newsletter?

What's the original source of that, do you know? I only know it from fark and slashdot.
posted by milovoo at 3:25 PM on August 13, 2004


trharlan,
Fair enough. I wasn't going to comment again after my first comment. But something just rubbed me the wrong way with Hilfy's "I hate my country now because everything has gone in the shitter." It's just so tired and insular. I don't know people can walk around this country every day free and live their lives as they please, but then come onto the internet and get into this overblown grandstanding about some piece of minutia. Some people really need to learn perspective. However, if someone is that miserable here, I'd be happy to show them the exit. One less bitcher for the rest.

But my apologies for harping on hilfy. I should just ignore it the reflexive need for some people to make their political points through ridiculous hyperbole.
posted by Seth at 3:28 PM on August 13, 2004


Seth, please take the following bit of wisdom to heart:

"It is better to be silent and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."
posted by five fresh fish at 3:30 PM on August 13, 2004


milovoo,
I'm not sure. I didn't get it from fark or slashdot b/c I never have read either of those sites, so I don't know if it originated there. My first encounter of it was at a cocktail party. Since I heard it there, I have seen it subsequently on the net in numerous places.
posted by Seth at 3:30 PM on August 13, 2004


FFF, are you implying that I have less of a right to post than any other member?

Why don't you just tell me to leave? For people who like to think they are free thinkers, you people are incredibly intolerant of those whose opinions you don't support.
posted by Seth at 3:32 PM on August 13, 2004


Hilfy,
I fail to see how Steve is talking down to you, or anyone is shooting you down. I think you may be so riled up about the issue that any degree of "just the facts [maam or sir], what there are no facts?" seems confrontational. I don't think it's about you, or the veracity of your friends, it's about the FPP. By pointing out that there may be other explanations and not being knee-jerk, Steve is merely behaving in the manner that you believe the photo and DA people did not, dispassionately and looking at all evidence. It will be interesting for you to follow the story, and maybe construct more of a nuanced presentation. As it is, we are at least 3 degrees of separation away from these people, so this is pretty much just a police blotter story to us.

On preview, I see you've been duly flogged. Sorry, a lot of us are in a general state of anxiety lately, so I sympathize with the transference. I just nearly ran a red light today, for the 2nd time this week, because I thought it was green. At least you're losing it in Metafilter where at least we have literal sidebags.
posted by dness2 at 3:35 PM on August 13, 2004


Seth:

Tut tut tut. A case in point. You can't say a thing online without someone instantly hopping up to take a stab at you.

Perhaps I'm just getting old a grumpy but I've been through what I've been through and I've seen what I've seen etc, et al. Just because I respond, grantedly at length, does not automatically make it hyperbole. Nor does feeling passionately about my desire to live elsewhere melodramatic especially since I've actually lived overseas.

Of course I'm living in North Carolina now.....and when you get outside of the major cities here it can get pretty scary.
posted by Hilfy at 3:36 PM on August 13, 2004


I find your views intriguing. Where can I subscribe to your newsletter?

What's the original source of that, do you know? I only know it from fark and slashdot.


It's a Simpsons reference.
posted by cmonkey at 3:38 PM on August 13, 2004


For some reason it reminds me of this quote that I had thought was from crappy movie "dead bang" but was actually from crappy movie "off limits"
-----

Dix: "You're floatin' in a big sea of shit and instead of just stayin' in the boat, no, you reach out and you pick up this one little turd and you say "This turd, well THIS turd pisses me off. I'm gonna do somethin' about THIS turd!"

-----
I wonder why I transposed the two in the lame-movie section of my brain.
posted by milovoo at 3:38 PM on August 13, 2004


milivoo: Simpsons is the genesis of that quote in my worldview, and it should be thus:

"Your ideas are intriguing to me and I wish to subscribe to your newsletter."

Source
posted by cortex at 3:38 PM on August 13, 2004


Ah, hell.
posted by cortex at 3:38 PM on August 13, 2004


In reading my last post, I was unclear, I meant this argument in general reminds me of that movie, not the newsletter quote.

For the newsletter quote, I guess I should just remember that, when in doubt, quotes always come from the simpsons.
posted by milovoo at 3:49 PM on August 13, 2004


This isn’t the first time this kind of thing has been in the news more than once over the past few years.

It seems to me that the police have lost the ability to use reasonable judgment, especially when the subject is children and anything that could possibly be construed as sexual.
This has been happening way before "the past few years." Not the police's job to judge. Why they have judges which is may be why today few cops care.
posted by thomcatspike at 3:59 PM on August 13, 2004


Why don't you just tell me to leave?

Not all of us can attain such levels of self-centered assholitude:

However, if someone is that miserable here, I'd be happy to show them the exit. One less bitcher for the rest.
posted by rushmc at 4:02 PM on August 13, 2004


The main problem I'm having with Hilfy's POV is that she's wanting to place relevance on the time-and-place of this arrest. Stupid misunderstandings and puritanical behaviors have been around long before any of us were born, all over the globe, and will continue unabated long after we're dead. Fretting and huffing and making a big snit out of leaving the country is setting yourself up for some serious ridicule. Since you've lived elsewhere, why not go elsewhere if you think those other places are free from human error and human stupidity. And please send a postcard--I'd love to see what Paradise looks like.
posted by dhoyt at 4:04 PM on August 13, 2004


The main problem I'm having with Hilfy's POV is that she's wanting to place relevance on the time-and-place of this arrest. Stupid misunderstandings and puritanical behaviors have been around long before any of us were born, all over the globe, and will continue unabated long after we're dead.

This is true, but we also have an increasing culture of secrecy in the US, where many civil events that used to be above boards are becoming hidden from public scrutiny, if you combine that fact with the overactive imagination of even just a single government employee and you end up with a lot of people in trouble for dubious reasons, this just being one example.
posted by milovoo at 4:16 PM on August 13, 2004


Seth: you people are incredibly intolerant

See, this is the difference between a conservative & a liberal.

A liberal would take offence at the individual who made the comment; a conservative finds some group upon which to vent a prejudice.

Seth, lemme tell ya: FFF is a wise and sane human being, but - to my knowledge - speaks only for himself. Can you explain why you took it out on the rest of us?
posted by dash_slot- at 4:37 PM on August 13, 2004


Metafilter: It's [usually] a Simpsons reference.
posted by dash_slot- at 4:41 PM on August 13, 2004


*sucks in a big breath*

dhoyt:

The main problem I'm having with Hilfy's POV is that she's wanting to place relevance on the time-and-place of this arrest. Stupid misunderstandings and puritanical behaviors have been around long before any of us were born, all over the globe, and will continue unabated long after we're dead.

Yes such things have been around forever but that isn't the point. The point is today you have to stop and think, "Gee...if I take this to get developed am I going to get in trouble?" before snapping that picture of your little kid in the bathtub or running around being goofy in the buff. There just does not seem to any common sense anymore. Today a naked child on film = kiddy porn period. Perhaps things will start swinging the other way and bring a little reason back but I'm not holding my breath just yet.

As for going elsewhere I need to talk the SO into doing that. I'd go back to Japan in a heartbeat otherwise. Not that Japan doesn’t have its share of problems but, well…you have to live there for a while to understand. A lot of folks probably could not do it but I felt very at home there. The Japanese are a much more communal and non confrontational society in my experience. You can see this in the spoken language itself. Plus after living there for over a decade and coming to NC...whew. You talk about culture shock. It's not just this incident or the political clusterF the country is in right now that makes me want to go back, not nearly that simple. I don't hate the good ole U.S. but there's a lot of things going on that are horribly self destructive on a global scale. As I get older I find myself tired of fighting the good fight and getting basically nowhere. I find myself just wanting to get away from it all. Big money, big oil, big corporations, corrupt politics, an apathetic generally ignorant populace that usually can't see beyond their own petty wants or beliefs. Eh, god I'm getting old and bitchy.

Though I must admit I've not seen a political mobilization of the U.S. public like this since the 60s and early 70s. Gives me a bit of hope for us yet. Nothing like a bloody war to stir up the pot.

thomcatspike:

This has been happening way before "the past few years." Not the police's job to judge. Why they have judges which is may be why today few cops care.

Yes, I know, but it was the Sgt. in the Special Victims unit who decided the 2 pictures were somehow 'sexually suggestive', if I'm not mistaken. The Judge will have final judgment but what I'm saying is it should not even have gotten to that point. I don’t think it’s that the Sgt. didn’t care, I’m leaning more towards that he’s just an idiot and jumped to conclusions. Who knows, perhaps the guy will turn out to be a raving perv and it was justified. If that's the case then bad on me.

milovoo: Thank you, you get a big warm cookie!. :)

Thanks to my other supporters too. I may have dug myself into this hole and I may be a long winded old nag but it's nice to know not everyone wants to start shoveling dirt back in on me!

"Look, I came here for an argument!"
"Oh! I'm sorry but this is Abuse! You want room 12a, just down the corridor."
"Oh , thank you very much! Sorry!"
"Not at all! .......stupid git.."
posted by Hilfy at 5:37 PM on August 13, 2004


MetaFilter: Argument Clinic
posted by wendell at 5:45 PM on August 13, 2004


MetaFilter: Assorted levels of self-centered assholitude.
posted by liam at 5:57 PM on August 13, 2004


Don't sweat it, Hilfy, and don't let 'em grind you down.
posted by Shane at 6:44 PM on August 13, 2004


FFF: "It is better to be silent and thought a fool, than to speak and remove all doubt."

Seth: "are you implying that I have less of a right to post than any other member?"


Oh man. That was priceless. Like a fish in a barrel.
posted by scarabic at 7:22 PM on August 13, 2004


"I hate my country now because everything has gone in the shitter." It's just so tired and insular. I don't know people can walk around this country every day free and live their lives as they please, but then come onto the internet and get into this overblown grandstanding about some piece of minutia.

How come you think criticism == hatred ?

The United States is one of my favorite places in the world. The principles I see in the idea of America are important to me.

But you know what? Americans are remarkably stupid sometimes, and when I see that, I don't mind pointing it out, and it seriously freaks me out. These people who buy SUVs to make themselves safer are going to be voting in the next election, and I sure hope they're better at picking a presidential candidate than they are at doing their homework on personal vehicles, but sometimes I don't have much faith on that front.

So tell me straight: does that mean I hate my country?
posted by namespan at 7:27 PM on August 13, 2004


from mwhybark's excellent post yesterday
posted by Peter H at 7:34 PM on August 13, 2004


Oh man. That was priceless. Like a fish in a barrel.

Have you ever tried shooting fish in a barrel? It's not so easy. A Beretta .32, for example, might penetrate water to only about one foot. The damn fish keep getting away. I think they're laughing at me.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:12 PM on August 13, 2004


>Cutesy pictures of me running around the back yard naked with a hose.
I knew a woman who had t-shirts made of her bath-time baby photos. Lots of suds, big smile, splashing in the water. But that was years ago when I knew her.

>smart as a box of hammers
not a slight, Steve, only a dialectology moment: I've always/only heard "dumb as a bag of hammers"

>Have you ever tried shooting fish in a barrel? It's not so easy.
'fish' as metaphor for heroin...?
posted by philfromhavelock at 8:54 PM on August 13, 2004


No, that's shooting Horse in a barrel. Have you ever tried to even *get* a horse into a barrel? I think it's a damn sight easier than shooting a barrelled fish (which is easily done, just submerge the tip of the gun barrel under the water and let the shockwave do the rest).
posted by scarabic at 9:28 PM on August 13, 2004


"easier to shoot"

Frock. I cannot talk/type this week.
posted by scarabic at 9:29 PM on August 13, 2004


EB, the trick is to puncture the barrel with one of your shots. Once that's done, go for a little walk, and when you return the fishing will be MUCH easier.
posted by jonson at 1:36 AM on August 14, 2004


Of course, if the metaphorical barrel were MetaFilter, and the metaphorical fish were its members, the easiest thing of all would be to just give the guns to the fish and let them shoot each other.
posted by taz at 2:10 AM on August 14, 2004


So then MetaTalk is... the gunk that holds the staves together? The bubbles arising from the fish (those that are still alive)? The algae? Algae... no wonder it smells so bad in here.
posted by languagehat at 10:34 AM on August 14, 2004


group hug!
posted by kv at 5:43 AM on August 15, 2004


Why don't you just tell me to leave?

Leave. Get out. I'm tired of your whining. Go hang yourself if it's really that awful.
posted by trondant at 7:27 AM on August 15, 2004


Bob Villa: "Soooo, Bill, I see you used a hammer to pound in that nail...."
posted by clavdivs at 11:05 AM on August 15, 2004


Why don't you just tell me to leave?

Leave. Get out. I'm tired of your whining. Go hang yourself if it's really that awful.


Dit-fucking-to.
posted by subgenius at 11:12 PM on August 15, 2004


>expletive infixation
posted by philfromhavelock at 6:51 AM on August 16, 2004


If I were going to shoot fish in a barrel, I think I'd use a shotgun. I'm pretty sure it'd work better.
posted by COBRA! at 6:52 AM on August 16, 2004


Leave. Get out. I'm tired of your whining. Go hang yourself if it's really that awful.

Dit-fucking-to.



A little of the old "Love it or Leave it", eh? Are you guys addressing Seth or Hilfy? Because their predicaments sound pretty similar. Should Hilfy leave the US for greener pastures then too?
posted by dhoyt at 7:57 AM on August 16, 2004


Are you guys addressing Seth or Hilfy?

If you were paying attention, you'd know the answer to that one. Do try and keep up, won't you?
posted by trondant at 9:39 AM on August 16, 2004


The question was rhetorical. Take your own advice and pay attention. I was making the point that "Love it or Leave it" is a nasty, hubristic attitude no matter who you are addressing, yet when the recipient is Seth, you guys seem to look the other way. If someone told Hilfy to hit the bricks and leave America since she doesn't like it, they'd be criticized for excessive patriotism and Bushist binary logic.

Do try and keep up.
posted by dhoyt at 9:49 AM on August 16, 2004


Hilfy, I was just looking at the post from the other side of the fence at it was presented. My lack of emotion was more from knowing less here. You had a point about the parents developing the pictures the way they did as making no sense for the investigation.
posted by thomcatspike at 3:07 PM on August 16, 2004


I wasn't sure I'd live to see the day when self-styled post police like Seth would be heard to plaintively ask: "are you implying that I have less of a right to post than any other member?"

Too much.

And as someone who shoots the occasional fish in barrels on MetaFilter ad libertum, I can assure you that here it's more like shooting fish in a water goblet.

However, if someone is that miserable here, I'd be happy to show them the exit. One less bitcher for the rest.
posted by Seth at 3:28 PM PST on August 13

Since you've lived elsewhere, why not go elsewhere if you think those other places are free from human error and human stupidity. And please send a postcard--I'd love to see what Paradise looks like.
posted by dhoyt at 4:04 PM PST on August 13

A little of the old "Love it or Leave it", eh? I was making the point that "Love it or Leave it" is a nasty, hubristic attitude no matter who you are addressing....
posted by dhoyt at 9:49 AM PST on August 16


Too much.

"Nasty". "Hubristic". You forgot moronic and gutless.

And 'course, "keeping up" with "dhoyt" really means trying to figure out which side of his mouth he's talking out of at any given moment. No word yet on whether he "takes his own advice"....or even pays attention to his own flip-flopping posts in the same thread from day to day.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 3:40 PM on August 16, 2004


Slow day on the wards, scold_and_excoriate? There really must be more productive ways to spend your time. And since when did self-styled peace activists become such hateful, hypocritical, intolerant dicks? You are everything you claim to hate. And you know it.
posted by dhoyt at 4:04 PM on August 16, 2004


~chuckle~

Wow. I'm intolerant of your hypocrisy above? Gee, you got me there, sparky. I am. Heh. Stand by. Guess what? I'm also intolerant of skulkers cravenly posting personal information about Mefite members too. Sorry about that intolerance. But you go right ahead. Nobody's trying to shut you up. Flip flop and post as much as you want...it says worlds about you. But do be prepared to be confronted continually when you do it. Some of us don't tolerate it.

Confronting hypocrisy, showing an intolerance for it, particularly now, is always a productive use of time. Funny how the more it happens, the more public opinion turns away from the tired old ideas of the past few years. That is obviously a source of bitter discomfiture to some, as they painfully watch the ideas and ideals of "peace activists" triumphing in America.

~wink~

But my, such productivity with your time....inviting another member to "leave it", then having a snit because the original "love it or leave it" poster was himself invited to therefore consider leaving....calling names (as usual, conveniently from afar, despite a prior personal invitation from me you obviously found extremely daunting) ....and posting more personal information (which you've done before) about a member. Your emotional outburst in response to somebody merely pointing out your obvious and silly hypocrisy above, makes you really sound, um, for lack of a better phrase....hateful and intolerant and "a dick" (if you insist we revert to third grade discourse).

Sorry, but it sounds like you are everything you claim to hate. Really.

Since you've lived elsewhere, why not go elsewhere if you think those other places are free from human error and human stupidity. And please send a postcard--I'd love to see what Paradise looks like.
posted by dhoyt at 4:04 PM PST on August 13

A little of the old "Love it or Leave it", eh? I was making the point that "Love it or Leave it" is a nasty, hubristic attitude no matter who you are addressing....
posted by dhoyt at 9:49 AM PST on August 16


/fish & goblet.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 6:38 PM on August 16, 2004


I don't think I've ever met anyone who couldn't understand the difference between no longer posting to a website one is serially and vocally dissatisfied with and relocating to another country because of disagreements with the policies of one's government.

FWIW, I did enjoy Seth's comment about Kinky Friedman. It's just that when it comes to the whole Newsfilter argument, the cure is worse than the disease.
posted by trondant at 9:04 PM on August 16, 2004


Foldy, you're king of the message boards, truly (and newsgroups, too, but you don't appear to troll them as much anymore). Your tireless accusations of Cowardice™ and Hypocrisy™ lobbed at anyone who may disagree with you have clearly shown people Who's Boss. You're "With us or against us"-style worldview and authoritarian/intimidation bent really echo your mortal enemies in the Bush administration. Congrats. I've never seen someone so closely resemble those he hates. Pat yourself on the back, armchair warrior. You're really turning heads. Preaching to the choir about mainstream American politics on an internet message board is no doubt the highest echelon a self-styled activist could every hope to reach. Kudos. Consciousness-raising = posting links everyone's seen about an issue everyone's familiar with. Got it.

Me, I only skim your comments these days. They're much too similar to those which are randomly generated. Though they're both one-note, and predictable as fuck. You really seem to hate that people can have views which cross over both sides of the aisle. You characterize it as "flip-flopping" just as every pathetic Fox News journalist loves to do with Kerry. I'd love to live in your rigid, us-vs-them world for just a moment. Wait. No. The fuck I would.

PS: everyone here pretty much loathes you, and that includes the people here that agree with you politically. So in that sense, you really are a uniter, not a divider. Type on, keyboard activist. Just don't subject us to your bitching when your MeFi "protests" don't affect any sort of change in the world.
posted by dhoyt at 10:00 PM on August 16, 2004


I don't think I've ever met anyone who couldn't understand the difference between no longer posting to a website one is serially and vocally dissatisfied with and relocating to another country because of disagreements with the policies of one's government.

Oh come on, trondant. I appreciate where you're coming from. I really do, but you're just burying the point in semantics. Seth is a whiny fuck who has a very valid critcism of MetaFilter to make. He does a terrible job of it, and has taken it to the level of a monomania. We all hate him, but at the basic level, he's got a valid opinion on his one little harping point.

Dhoyt's point is that you can't ignore his original complaint no matter how much he, himself, may suck. "Love it or leave it" is an attitude that can be applied to a website or a country, and in either case: equally wrongly. When you tell Seth to leave because he doesn't like it here, you're arguing against the instinct to change things for the better. Really, I don't like Seth any more than you do, but, as we know, matters of principle must be tested by the most extreme possible cases. Seth == Larry Flynt.

Newsfilter generally does suck my hoary balls through till next Tuesday, plain and simple. Telling the dood to leave is fine based on his boorish behavior and rhetorical flatulence, but you've got to be kidding me (and yourself) if you think there's no merit in his One Grand Complaint (regardless of his own pathetic attempts to make it).

In other words: if he's such an idiot, just tell him why he's wrong. Don't tell him to leave.
posted by scarabic at 11:31 PM on August 16, 2004


PS: everyone here pretty much loathes you, and that includes the people here that agree with you politically.

I love foldy with a love fierce and true (even though I'd probably end up smacking him one in the head when we were inebriated behind a dumpster in some back alley somewhere. You know, in a friendly kinda way).

For what it's worth.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 12:24 AM on August 17, 2004


what stav said (except for the smacking part).
posted by amberglow at 5:40 AM on August 17, 2004


So that's what happened the last time I was inebriated behind the dumpster.

Really, "dhoyt". We got it already. You can't and don't defend your indefensible actions, but instead merely childishly lash out when you are confronted about your hypocrisy (see above), and your cowardly behavior (posting personal info about members, criticizing members in threads they don't participate in, more name-calling from afar despite invitations to take that behavior off MetaFilter, trying to hide behind a supposed - and obviously inaccurate, flat out lie - census of what other Mefites think). Like so many across America, you can't defend your tired, discredited ideas, so you ineffectually try to take it out personally on those holding a mirror to you. Loathsomeness is obviously in the eye of those who loathe here.

And I understand how painful it obviously is for you to watch how effectively the ideas of people like me have taken hold. You obviously really loathe that.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 1:16 PM on August 17, 2004


Oh, and "dhoyt", while we're chatting here so very enjoyably and all, why don't you try to justify and explain to us all here exactly how you did it....and more importantly, why on earth....you would feel it was necessary to take the time to find and continue to post details about my personal life....and now strangely post about what you call my "newsgroup" activites. Stalk much?

You know how to personally get in touch with me if you want to personally explain all that to me. I won't hold my breath, and I'm finished with your bullshit here.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 4:20 PM on August 17, 2004


I've seen your name in newsgroups. That's pretty much the only "personal detail" I know about you, other than your phone number which I'd never call. I do believe you posted your home address at one point, too, but I have no intentions of visiting. Paranoid much? Perhaps you could do the uncowardly thing and post an email address, thus opening the lines of communication via text. Wake up--obviously no one's going to make the creepiest phone call of their life to hash out issues regarding a frigging message board.

I don't pretend to understand the scare quotes around "dhoyt" either since it's my username. The other account I owned was pawned off on a co-worker long ago (with mathowie's permission). So what's the conspiracy du jour that I'm supposed to be understanding?

By the way, I noticed amberglow and nofundy and even stavros taking shots at Seth and hama7 and you in threads none of you were involved in. Curiously, you did not swoop in to excoriate and humiliate them for their "cowardly" remarks. Can I say I'm fucking shocked? Shocked!

I also find it funny that two (!) people out of 17000 defended you a few comments back, and those two just happened to share your politics. Gee, I don't suppose your bullying tone and aggressive sarcasm has finally worked to intimidate anyone, huh? Or make them sycophantic? Which is pretty much exactly the effect you've always gone for.

I'm not scared of you, or scared to disagree with you. Follow me around in every thread for the rest of the history of Metafilter if you like. It will only prove how phony your psuedoactivist priorities are. Keyboard warrior, indeed. Keep saving the world. Want to chat? Go ahead and email me. I DARE you.
posted by dhoyt at 6:03 PM on August 17, 2004


In other words: if he's such an idiot, just tell him why he's wrong. Don't tell him to leave.

Well, he did ask for it. And I told him long ago that he's made his point as best as can be done. What else is there left to do?

I never called him an idiot. Rather, trying the same thing over and over again when it doesn't work smacks more of insanity to me. It isn't working, wasn't before, and like it or not, it won't in the future I bet. And that comes from someone who doesn't post newsfiltery FPPs as best I can recall - and who can tolerate them, but only to a point.
posted by trondant at 7:37 PM on August 17, 2004


PS: everyone here pretty much loathes you

I dunno. Even I've developed a grudging respect and affection for the little loonball. He's true to what he believes, even in the face of people who give him shit and he'll tell you when he thinks your right as well as wrong. And anybody who likes baseball and Jim Croce can't be all bad.
posted by jonmc at 7:58 PM on August 17, 2004


Gee, I don't suppose your bullying tone and aggressive sarcasm has finally worked to intimidate anyone, huh? Or make them sycophantic?

Jeez, dhoyt. If you think I can be bullied into sycophancy, by friend f_and_m or anyone else, you're barking up the wrong tree.

I was going to mention that even though you and I have crossed swords in the past (I think...I have so much trouble keeping track of these things), I appreciate your contributions to reasoned discussion on the site too, but now I'm not so sure, you big poopyhead.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:20 PM on August 17, 2004


Well, "dhoyt", you're just digging yourself in deeper. Apparently we can add outright lying to your other obvious shortfalls. You just made allusions above to my job, and then you immediately lie and claim my name is the only personal information you know. Explain how you found out that information, and more importantly why in hell you feel compelled to keep posting that kind of information here. Explain how and why you have used my full name (which I've never posted here) to search old "newsgroups" to find out what else I've posted. Then explain why in the world you would feel compelled to post information about that "newsgroup" activity here. Then answer my question: stalk much?

Creepy. You find and post personal information about me, then you balk at any personal contact with me when challenged about it. You could have obviously merely used the return email address from my "newsgroup" posts that for some reason you made yourself an expert upon (which posts you so fascinatingly somehow know are mine), if you really ever had any desire to contact me personally "via text" about anything....and yet you never did. Strange. I think it was you, without bidding and apropos of nothing at all, for some reason felt the need to protest vehemently about not being "scared of me", did you not?

After you explain all that, we're still waiting for you to explain why you told someone to "leave" above, then turned around and condemned someone for doing the same thing. Do try to keep up. We're still waiting for you to link us to the massive census you conducted on MetaFilter to determine exactly who loathes who. What? You didn't conduct such a census? You just made up that kind of emotional knee-jerk, childish chickenshit because you simply got called out on your obvious hypocrisy above? And not one out of 17000 members who supposedly has such deep "loathing" has shown up to support you? Can't say I'm fucking shocked.

After that, you can explain to some of the folks above who kindly refuted your bullshit exactly how they have all really just been bullied and/or brainwashed and can't think for themselves. In particular, please explain it to one of the members above who sure as hell doesn't share my politics, and who I suspect will be very, very interested in your theory of him being "bullied" into his post.

We're not done. Explain why you link offsite to a completely different website (explain how and why you felt compelled to take the time to track down a post about me there....stalk much?), which post actually indicates a friend would *enjoy* me posting at that site. Explain how that's an example of someone else "taking shots at me" in a thread in which I'm not participating (taking shots at me, not Seth, not hama7), which you've cowardly done over and over again. Explain why you just gutlessly did it yet again, above, to nofundy, who merely noted that he found someone funny, in a thread I've never even seen before. Explain why you felt compelled to take the time to link offsite to some kind of moronic Markov chaining algorithm that you creepily supplied with my username. Explain why, if you "only skim my comments" and aren't worried about how obviously effective the ideas of people like me have become, you have this amazing obsession with personal and internet information related to little ol' me.

Pathetic....or maybe just creepy.

And once again, if you (or anyone) had wanted to challenge my views or had some personal issue with me, you know how to get in touch with me, and you always have. The last time my email address and name mysteriously made its way to others besides the recipient, there was a really marvelous little gutless stalking incident, which I'm sure you yourself recall, and which isn't entirely unrelated to the personal information about me above, right dhoyt? Frankly....if all you want to do is spout off with the same kind of lame chickenshit above, which all resulted from your emotional little reaction to someone simply pointing out your really stupid flipflopping in the thread, kindly have or develop the balls to do it like a man, directly to me. As you yourself noted, however, you find that kind of personal confrontation daunting and prefer to continue to call names and behave badly safely "via text"....which is in stark contast to the more than few Metafilter members who have strangely had no difficulty whatsoever just picking up the phone to talk directly to me (overwhelmingly, but not always, to merely offer friendly support and good wishes...and from many who sure as hell don't share my politics).

Obviously you have great difficulty doing that very simple thing that normal people have no trouble doing all the time, day in and day out. So I've made it safe and easy for you and emailed you, so that we can continue to do this in the pablum-like manner you require, from behind the soft safety of your keyboard....and so we can spare the rest of Metafilter your crap.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 3:03 AM on August 18, 2004


I dunno. Even I've developed a grudging respect and affection for the little loonball.

Who's "little"? And I really prefer "commie moonbat", thanks just the same.

~wink~
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 3:11 AM on August 18, 2004


You know foldy, I haven't been keeping up with this thread and only just now read it through. I could attempt to explain the qualitative difference between seeking to self-police the standards of a website and someone telling me to leave in order to try to deprive me of my right to post. The argument can be very simply made.

But then I realized that I would be having a discussion with an individual who somehow thinks such infantile things as tildes, winks and nudges somehow pass for reasoned mature worthwhile discourse, and that thought renders me incapable for having a discussion with you. It is just a great waste of time to discuss something with someone who is incapable of treating his opponent with respect, who cannot rise above name-calling, and who thinks that pathetic emoticon art covers for boorish behavior.
posted by Seth at 6:16 AM on August 18, 2004


[walter sobchak]

The preffered nomenclature is "commie moonbat," and you're outta your element, donnie!

[/walter]
posted by jonmc at 6:18 AM on August 18, 2004


and dhoyt, you're one of my boys but here's a little free advice: yeah stuff people say on here can piss you off, but this isn't congress or the UN, it's a buncha shmos (me & you included) shooting our mouths off while avoiding work. It's not worth giving yourself a heart attack over.
posted by jonmc at 6:40 AM on August 18, 2004


I'll defend f&m too, but that's because he bullied me into sycophancy.
*shows scars*

Seriously, dhoyt, you seem to be heading off the deep end here. Cálmate. Concentrate on the soothing gray color and let your mind float. Ommmm....
posted by languagehat at 7:16 AM on August 18, 2004


However, if someone is that miserable here, I'd be happy to show them the exit. One less bitcher for the rest.
posted by Seth at 3:28 PM PST on August 13
I could attempt to explain the qualitative difference between seeking to self-police the standards of a website and someone telling me to leave in order to try to deprive me of my right to post
posted by Seth at 6:16 AM PST on August 18


You know, Seth, maybe you just need to read the thread through once again (hint: try reading your own posts), and if you had any simple argument to make about anything, I'm sure we'd all be happy if you'd just make it rather than tell us how simple it is all in your own mind. While you're at it, maybe you could explain the "qualititative differences" between you telling someone to leave, and then having a tantrum at others for suggesting you consider your very ownest advice. Seems you're not alone in that hypocrisy here. And for the record, I don't want anyone to leave, you included.

Wait....I'm now attempting to have a discussion with someone who thinks that intimations about simple arguments he might or might not have constitute real arguments, who instead thinks real arguments consist of complaints about emoticons, who tells someone to leave then complains when others suggest he consider doing the same, and who just stepped through vast examples of another members' present (and past) boorish personal behavior without batting an unbiased eye.

~head implodes~

(How's that "emoticon" image?)
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 7:42 AM on August 18, 2004


And as I noted, this other stuff has been taken offsite, where I have some confidence that the better angels of our natures may prevail.
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 8:22 AM on August 18, 2004


Would you guys consider having your angels prevail here and taking your devils offsite instead?
posted by timeistight at 8:28 AM on August 18, 2004


Alright, I'll bite foldy.
The original poster, to whom I was responding to, expressed their dislike for America and their preference for abroad. I was not telling him "love it or leave it," but merely offering the simple solution to someone who expressed his desire to be elsewhere. Hilfy originally said that he feels ill at ease in America as opposed to living in Japan which he liked. So would it not logically be good advice to Hilfy to go back to where he felt at ease and liked living?

Now contrast that with the response to me, which was merely, "LEAVE." That response had nothing to do with me not liking Metafilter or me preferring somewhere else. It was merely a statement of, "I don't like what you are saying and want you to go." Or, in other words, "because of what you are saying, you must go." In fact, no matter what this thread was about or what I said in this thread, there would be a number of people who tell me to leave merely because I posted anything. To them, I have less of a right to post than other people. Why? Because I try to self-police? Because I have so enjoyed this website for so long that I hate to see it lose it luster of uniqueness? See, I love MeFi far more than any other website and would work to keep it special, even if that means people hate me for it. (Contrast that with Hilfy who expressed his dislike for the place he was and a preference for another.) I don't care about the content of anyone's message as long as the goal and point of MeFi is perserved. Some people choose to tell me to go merely because they don't like what I say.

There is a difference, and I wonder if you have enough integrity to admit to that fact.

Unfortunately, I'm sure you past rhetorical techniques suggest you will respond by calling me either (a) a liar, (b) a hypocrit, or (c) a coward, since that is all you seem to ever do. Your response will also include some lame attempt at being charming (or whatever you are aiming for with your stupid tilde emoticons). Regardless, I have explained this to you, and I hope I won't find the time to indulge you further so that you can call me names and act pompous.
posted by Seth at 8:28 AM on August 18, 2004


Would you guys consider having your angels prevail here and taking your devils offsite instead?
posted by timeistight at 8:28 AM PST on August 18


Such a beautiful question. It's a shame things don't work that way.
posted by Seth at 8:30 AM on August 18, 2004


Stavros: sorry, I re-read what I wrote and I didn't mean you and amberglow were sycophants. I was implying that there is something sycophantic/enabling about remaining silent while someone misanthropic as foldy bullies people with sarcasm--not that those who stood up for him are sycophants themselves, necessarily.
posted by dhoyt at 9:35 AM on August 18, 2004


Sorry, all, for losing my temper in general. I've got nothing else to contribute here.
posted by dhoyt at 9:43 AM on August 18, 2004


However, if someone is that miserable here, I'd be happy to show them the exit. One less bitcher for the rest.
posted by Seth at 3:28 PM PST on August 13
Leave. Get out. I'm tired of your whining. Go hang yourself if it's really that awful.
posted by trondant at 7:27 AM PST on August 15


Seth, a couple of people quoted your own sentiments right back to you, and now we find you protesting those same sentiments. Someone admonished you to stop berating Hilfy, which you agreed was a good idea, after which...wait for it....you continued to berate Hilfy, ending by offering to show him/her "the exit". Explain how your words "if someone is that miserable here, I'd be happy to show them the exit. One less bitcher for the rest" isn't an unambiguous invitation to "LEAVE". Those are words that you expressed first, to someone who, just like you, merely expressed disappointment and concern with aspects of the respective arenas in question. A few folks pointed out that you sure seem miserable in this arena at times, and sent your own sentiments right back at you. I'm quite sure that Hilfy loves her particular arena as much as you love MetaFilter, and hates to see it lose its luster. I wonder if you have enough integrity to admit those obvious facts...and to quit whining about emoticons and stereotyped bullshit you've made up in your own mind, which you "angelically" spent half your posts above whimpering about. Is that part of your own "rhetorical techniques" and "worthwhile discourse"?
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 11:25 AM on August 18, 2004


Foldy,
I can't tell if you are willfully ignoring my words, or you lack the integrity to admit there is a difference.

Let me break it down for you:
1. Hilfy said he likes it better elsewhere and hates it here. What is the logical solution? Go to where you like it better. Hell, his whining about how much he liked it better in Japan practically begs the question of "why don't you return there?" If I whined that "I hate it on Earth but I loved living on Mars," then the obvious retort is "why don't you go back to Mars?" Or put in other words, "I'll show you the way back there."

2. The people who told me to leave the site are doing it because they don't like me and don't like me repeating myself. Hell it has little to do with disagreeing with me. It has nothing to do with me wanting to be elsewhere. It is merely people think that I have no right to make my point.

And as I said before, the "leave" argument is made in every single thread I write in, so don't act like it someone trying to make a turnabout on me in this thread.

and to quit whining about emoticons and stereotyped bullshit you've made up in your own mind
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 11:25 AM PST on August 18


I made up the fact you act like a fool in most of your posts with senseless lame emoticons? I made up the fact that you call people who disagree with you a liar/hypocrit/coward in the vast majority of your posts?

I don't think so. We all know your game foldy.
posted by Seth at 12:11 PM on August 18, 2004


dhoyt. Is your email account working? As noted, I emailed you. I haven't received any response.

Sethy,
I can't tell if you simply can't read your own words, or you simply lack the integrity to admit they are obviously hypocritical.

Let me break this down for you:

1. Hilfy says he/she has some problems with America. You tell him/her "GYOBF" and offer to show him/her the exit.

2. You (endlessly) say you have some problems with Metafilter. After YOU FIRST suggest one of your fellow countrymen "GYOBF" and LEAVE the fucking country, you throw an obvious, embarrassed tantrum when others throw that sentiment right back in your face

Hell, your (endless) whining about content on MetaFilter with which you disagree practically begs the question of "why do you keep returning here?" If I melodramatically and hyperbolically whined about Metafilter as much as you, then the obvious retort THAT YOU YOURSELF PROVIDED AND ARE NOW RUNNING FROM (and which I disagree with) is "why don't you go elsewhere?"

You tell Hilfy "GYOBF" (an always lovely, cowardly, and name-calling sentiment) after her post has already been deleted. You want him/her to be "silent" here instead of "venting". A member above then gives you a little homily about "it is better to be silent...." in response to your continued "venting" about Hilfy, after which you throw a tantrum about how you're being "silenced". Really, Seth...how can you possibly expect to be taken seriously?

We got it already. Your rules apply to everyone else, not to you. You suggest others be quiet and/or leave. You boorishly throw a fit if others tell you to consider your own sentiments. We got it. Your hypocrisy is apparent above, and you had an emotional reaction to its being pointed out to you, lashing out childishly at "emoticons" (of all fucking things...really wonderful "worthwhile discourse" sethy) and moronicly generalizing about "you people" and "vast majorities of posts" and "they don't like me" and "you call people who disagree with you" and "we all know" and "people think that [you] have no right to make [your] point" and "the 'leave' argument is made in every single thread [you] write in". Obviously, yes, you are absolutely making up "facts" and generalizations and bullshit in your own mind.

And you can absolutely bet that I will continue to point out prevarication, two-facedness, and cowardice whenever and wherever I see it. Don't want it pointed out? Then don't behave that way. Don't want hypocrisy pointed out? Then don't suggest silence for someone, don't suggest someone leave, then get your panties wadded when someone simply proposes you follow your own completely idiotic advice.

~ends barrel shoot....christ, I feel like I'm pulling the wings off flies here, and ain't really got the heart for it...~
posted by fold_and_mutilate at 11:01 AM on August 19, 2004


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