December 1, 2004

11:09 AM

Why did this question make it to AskMeFi?
posted by BlueTrain to etiquette/policy at 11:09 AM (54 comments total)

Because Matt approved it.
posted by bondcliff at 11:10 AM on December 1, 2004

And I'd guess he approved it because it's the sort of question that sometimes you have nobody to ask, and you trust the people around here, and almost certainly some of us have been in the same situation.

Why did this question make it to MeTa?
posted by bonaldi at 11:14 AM on December 1, 2004

I dunno, what's wrong with it? Seems like a valid use for anon. posting.
posted by mathowie at 11:23 AM on December 1, 2004

see, if by mistake you have been given something that is not yours, the question of what to do with it is easily handled by applying information that was certainly provided to you before the time you advanced from kindergarten to first grade.

by this time next week i predict questions like "i sat on the poopychair but when the poop squeezed out some got left on my buttcheeks. what do i do?
posted by quonsar at 11:27 AM on December 1, 2004

It just seemed like an obvious question to answer. Someone overpays you; you give back the money. What kind of answers were you expecting?

And despite bonaldi's rudeness, I didn't intend to make my question sound aggressive. I was just honestly curious to hear your rationale.
posted by BlueTrain at 11:29 AM on December 1, 2004

And what quonsar said, with less snark.
posted by BlueTrain at 11:29 AM on December 1, 2004

"i sat on the poopychair but when the poop squeezed out some got left on my buttcheeks. what do i do?

Apply vaseline to the subsequent rash?
posted by dash_slot- at 11:30 AM on December 1, 2004

I actually think there was some useful information in that thread--I might have been tempted to write a check for the extra payment to my employer, but jacquilynne and others pointed out that they would probably just recall the deposit from the same account, and that the best thing to do would be to leave the money there and notify them of the mistake.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:33 AM on December 1, 2004

Something similar happened recently at my company. You'd be surprised how many people don't understand the principle that something given accidentally to you is not automatically yours to keep.

It's a VERY good question, IMHO. Not obvious to everyone, and needs to be reiterated.

And btw, of all the crap-ass questions that make it to AskMe, you pick that one?
posted by mkultra at 11:34 AM on December 1, 2004

Half Life 2 takes a long time to install, doesn't it?
posted by nthdegx at 11:34 AM on December 1, 2004

Just because it's a fucking-duh question to you (or to me) doesn't mean it's a fucking-duh question to everyone.

I shudder to think what we'd have done to the poor schmuck if it hadn't been anonymized.
posted by mcwetboy at 11:40 AM on December 1, 2004

I didn't interpret the question as "can I keep it?" but rather as "what is the best way to deal with this?" which, as I point out above, wasn't obvious to me.
posted by Sidhedevil at 11:43 AM on December 1, 2004

Just because it's a fucking-duh question to you (or to me) doesn't mean it's a fucking-duh question to everyone.

My thought was the direct deposit thing was the only twist. I would call my employer, but would still have no idea how to recall a direct deposit already completed.

I mean, it's a dumb question if it was finding 20 bucks on your sidewalk, but if someone deposited into your amazon fund anonymously, then it's a bit harder to figure out how to make things right.
posted by mathowie at 11:45 AM on December 1, 2004

What Sidhedevil said. The asker was in a new situation to them and was checking to see if there was some sort of established procedure for this. Seems legitimate to me. Given our convoluted laws and accounting procedures it seems reasonable to do a sanity check on something like this.
posted by vacapinta at 12:07 PM on December 1, 2004

I was wondering the same thing as I posted my answer.

It seems like a no-brainer to me. It's not yours so you return it. If you don't know how to return it ask the people who gave it to you rather than a bunch of people who have no idea who you work for.
posted by cedar at 12:10 PM on December 1, 2004

what quonsar said, but with even more snark.
posted by jpoulos at 12:18 PM on December 1, 2004

You'd be surprised how many people don't understand the principle that something given accidentally to you is not automatically yours to keep.

You'd be surprised at how many people can't find Rhode Island on a map. "Where is Rhode Island?" is a bad question.

And btw, of all the crap-ass questions that make it to AskMe, you pick that one?

The difference between this one and most crap-ass questions is that Matt specifically approved it. And we trust is judgment, which is why it seems unusual.
posted by jpoulos at 12:21 PM on December 1, 2004

is his judgement
posted by jpoulos at 12:21 PM on December 1, 2004

rudeness

I think you're confusing terseness with rudeness, BlueTrain. F'rinstance, the terseness of your original question leaves plenty of room for interpretation about your intentions, hence my follow-up
posted by bonaldi at 12:29 PM on December 1, 2004

I don't think it was a very good question. The obvious solution was and is to contact the employer and find out how they wanted to deal with it. Not being anon's employer, what can Mefites offer in this case?
posted by rushmc at 12:35 PM on December 1, 2004

In case it wasn't clear, it's not a great question, but I allow through almost all of them. This is a borderline one, but I thought the direct deposit part for a new 20-something employee (making assumptions here) barely saved it.

I should probably just email people when they have really obvious or easily answered or pointless questions instead of letting them through.
posted by mathowie at 12:43 PM on December 1, 2004

Not being anon's employer, what can Mefites offer in this case?

Thats just it. The asker doesn't know. For all they know, there's some law that it has to be reported within 24 hrs or they incur a huge liability. Or, conversely, after a week its theirs to keep. Who knows?

I remember being young and trying to find my way in the world and discovering that things that should be obvious not always were.
posted by vacapinta at 12:46 PM on December 1, 2004

My first thought was "do you have a bonus coming up?" T'is the season, after all. It could also be vacation time expiring and being paid out (one pay period at a time) or some other strange procedural thing, like "the accountants won't be here in 2 weeks, they'll all be on vacation, so we're paying out now."

I dunno. Maybe none of those is plausible enough, but there are possibilities.

And bonaldi wasn't being rude.
posted by scarabic at 12:50 PM on December 1, 2004

I think it's a reasonable question. And in spite that fact that everyone here thinks the answer is obvious, there are a number of different answers in the thread.
posted by timeistight at 12:54 PM on December 1, 2004

there was good info in the thread, it was certainly a better question than the usual "my ears are bleeding profusely and both my legs turned a deep shade of purple and my left arm is paralyzed, what should I do?" kind of question. EthicsFilter, however lame, always beats "I don't have insurance / I'm too cheap-lazy to go to the doctor, hence tell me what my ailment is" knid of question.
not to mention, as we know American doctors/lawyers can't give advice over the Internet, they risk serious consequences, hence the advice we can get here on medical/legal issues is by definition substandard. better to go with the Ethics101 kind of questions
posted by matteo at 12:56 PM on December 1, 2004

In case it wasn't clear, it's not a great question, but I allow through almost all of them.

To clarify myself, I wasn't questioning your decision to let it through, which I had no problem with. I was just countering the arguments above that it was a good question for AskMe.

And in spite that fact that everyone here thinks the answer is obvious, there are a number of different answers in the thread.

Which just proves my point, that only the person's employer can give the right answer in this case.
posted by rushmc at 1:27 PM on December 1, 2004

It's a great question, and not immediately obvious that one keeps the money in the account and calls HR / Payroll. If the person had taken the money out, there could have been trouble.

Oh yeah, and f you and what you think is obvious.
posted by xammerboy at 1:27 PM on December 1, 2004

And despite bonaldi's rudeness, I didn't intend to make my question sound aggressive.

That's an ironic remark. Don't expect people to give your intentions the benefit of the doubt if you're rushing to judge others' comments.
posted by cribcage at 1:30 PM on December 1, 2004

"Oh yeah, and f you and what you think is obvious."

I take back what I said about this being a bad question. If nothing else it has revealed something about the people who answered (and discussed it) it.

There is nothing complicated about this. If it's not yours, you give it back. I don't care how, but you make it happen. It's fundamental if you have any values whatsoever.
posted by cedar at 1:38 PM on December 1, 2004

I answered that question with all due respect, because about 18 weeks into my very first real job, my employer overpaid me by mistake. I had no idea what to do - I mean, obviously, go tell my employer, yes, but was I going to get in trouble? Would I have to write a cheque? Would they take the money back at all (I was secretly hoping for 'God, you know, this is way too much hassle to deal with, have fun with it.')? Would there be service charges involved from my bank for having this thing reversed? I had no idea what was going to happen, and I didn't want to go into a situation that made me a bit nervous in the first place (talking to an HR rep about a problem when I was still very much on probation) without knowing what to expect.

Ultimately, I wrote them a cheque for the amount owed, and got a note in my personnel file pointing out my honesty. They would have normally just deducted it from my next paycheque after they figured out what had happened, but in the interim weeks I was actually officially transferred from one legal entity to another so the next paycheque did not come from the same source as the incorrect one.

I have since experienced both a double deposit (removed from my account 3 days later, payroll was already aware when I called them) and a missed deposit (due to a bank system failure, deposited 2 days late, with my employer offering to compensate any employees who might have suffered overdraft fees as a result of the late deposit).

I was more blase about the second and third incidents because by then I knew these things have a way of sorting themselves out, but during the first one, I could have certainly used the kind of reassuring common sense that AskMe provides.
posted by jacquilynne at 1:40 PM on December 1, 2004

Oh yeah, and f you and what you think is obvious.

I don't think people intentionally thought it was obvious just to piss people off. I think we thought it was obvious because we thought it was obvious. And so f yourself.
posted by jpoulos at 1:44 PM on December 1, 2004

Y'see, I think this is an example of the downside of MeFi. It's good that there are rules, and that we have Mr H to monitor the comings and goings, but sometimes we're all just becoming a tad too obsessed about what is within the rules and what is outside the rules. It would be good just to focus on the content instead of hammering away at (first) the person who takes their (metaphorical) life into their hands by posting a question, and (second) having these daft semantic tennis matches between the contributors to such a post.
Just saying...
posted by apocalypse miaow at 1:54 PM on December 1, 2004

Which just proves my point, that only the person's employer can give the right answer in this case.

Well, yeah, that's obvious to you. If I had just graduated college and got an accidental double deposit, my immediate reaction wouldn't be "tell your employer", but "lay low and see what happens". I'd ask some of my more knowledgeable friends. Of course, when I was that age, the internet hadn't exploded, and MeFi wasn't even a glimmer in Matt's eye. Extrapolate from there.
posted by mkultra at 1:54 PM on December 1, 2004

I thought the question made it to the green because it successfully ran the gauntlet of protestors outside, proved its valor in combat and rescued Princess Tizzy from the Ever Questioning Matty-Wannabes.

But then, I'm feeling a little more peckish today than usual.

And, for what its worth, I agree completely with cedar. Its not yours, give it back, unless its enough to start your own country.
posted by fenriq at 1:59 PM on December 1, 2004

AskMe is Scruples™ now?

Fenriq wins.
posted by KevinSkomsvold at 2:52 PM on December 1, 2004

What jpoulos said, with about the same amount of snark.

You get paid double (no matter the form of payment), the first thing you do is tell your boss. He'll send you to payroll or handle it himself. Whether it's a check, cash, direct deposit, or gold bricks; the answer is really friggin' obvious.

It Matt wants to allow it, I don't care. It's his site. But it's still a dumb question. And I suspect the asker was secretly hoping someone would say "keep it."
posted by BradNelson at 2:58 PM on December 1, 2004

Considering how many responses there are here in MeTa, it seems like a perfectly cromulent question to me.

What makes it more interesting is that most people don't read their direct deposit agreements very carefully. If the original poster had written a check for the overpaid amount, the employer could have easily gone and removed the same amount again, causing all sorts of problems. The larger the company, the further one hand is removed from the other. How would you like to be out an entire paycheck for a few months because you were honest?
posted by bh at 3:00 PM on December 1, 2004

The fun goes on-"they can't take the money back automatically" vs. "they can, too, take the money back automatically" is battling it out right now in the thread.

See, what would have happened to me if I had been the questioner would have been that a) I would have noticed the mistake; b) I would have called my employer; c) I would have been connected to an idiot in the Accounts Payable office, who would have said, "Uh, I don't know what you should do"; d) I would have freaked out and written a check for the overpayment and sent it directly to the VP for Finance; e) the idiot in the Accounts Payable office would have done whatever one does to get the money back automatically; f) the VP for Finance would get my check, not read the letter, and put the check into a batch for deposit; g) the check would clear AND the company would take back the overpayment automatically, and h) I would go from having been overpaid to having been underpaid, and it would take me months to straighten out the whole thing.

Therefore, the advice to "Don't do anything until you notify the employer and find out whether or not they can/will take the overpayment back automatically" is, I think, quite helpful.
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:04 PM on December 1, 2004

Whoo, bh, I owe you a Coke.
posted by Sidhedevil at 3:04 PM on December 1, 2004

Let's call it even, yours was much funnier.
posted by bh at 3:16 PM on December 1, 2004

Therefore, the advice to "Don't do anything until you notify the employer and find out whether or not they can/will take the overpayment back automatically" is, I think, quite helpful.

I guess I assumed that would be the obvious thing to do. Apparently, I was wrong.

The absolute last thing I would do would be to write a check for the over-payment.
posted by BradNelson at 3:23 PM on December 1, 2004

The nice thing, though, is that we have the same conversation going in two threads now. It's like...stereo.
posted by BradNelson at 3:23 PM on December 1, 2004

I want to know why this question was called out almost immediately but this one hasn't had that honor quite yet.
posted by BuddhaInABucket at 3:40 PM on December 1, 2004

If I had just graduated college and got an accidental double deposit, my immediate reaction wouldn't be "tell your employer", but "lay low and see what happens".

Well, that says a lot more about you than it does about the question at hand.
posted by rushmc at 4:01 PM on December 1, 2004

Points of ethics aside, it was a good and valid question. If by "obvious" one means overwhelming consensus, I don't see support for that in this thread. Just that we are debating it at all makes it non-obvious by default, no?

Q.E.D
posted by vacapinta at 4:23 PM on December 1, 2004

Just that we are debating it at all makes it non-obvious by default, no?

Touché.
posted by BradNelson at 5:47 PM on December 1, 2004

Well, that says a lot more about you than it does about the question at hand.

At least he answered the question honestly. Why so high 'n mighty? Can you say in all confidence that there was never a time in your life when, in this same situation, you would've had second thoughts about immediately turning in the extra money? I sure as hell wish I could, but I'd be lying if I said yes. No one's perfect.

And- in all honesty- given who I am right now, I like to think that I'd notify my employer. But not before at least one or two twangs of "What if..?".
posted by kryptondog at 5:56 PM on December 1, 2004

Can you say in all confidence that there was never a time in your life when, in this same situation, you would've had second thoughts about immediately turning in the extra money?

Yes, I can. And I've returned money accidentally given to me before. Petty crime is for the unimaginative.
posted by rushmc at 7:02 PM on December 1, 2004

You're an incredible person rushmc.
posted by Witty at 8:08 PM on December 1, 2004

metafilter: everyone here (except rushmc) is a liar
posted by calwatch at 10:21 PM on December 1, 2004

rushmc, you're clearly the second coming. Every thought in your head must be sunshine and puppies. My momentary lapses of moral weakness cannot compare.
posted by mkultra at 5:01 AM on December 2, 2004

How amusing it is that people think that doing the right thing is extraordinary. Your world must rock.
posted by rushmc at 12:36 PM on December 2, 2004

No rushmc... what's extraordinary is that you've always done the right thing. THAT, is what makes you so unique and incredible, I continue to wish I was you.
posted by Witty at 9:40 AM on December 3, 2004

Well...better luck next time, then.
posted by rushmc at 9:25 PM on December 3, 2004