February 17, 2005

9:35 AM

I have some ideas about getting rid of religious fundamentalism, winning the War on Terrorism, and inoculating our nation against ever electing anyone like George Bush to the White House again -- all at the same time and using nothing more lethal than words and a few diagrams.

I'm new here, and I would appreciate suggestions on what I should particularly avoid doing in discussing such matters in this group.

I am also from an older generation, and I am extremely upset about the current atmosphere in Washington, if any of this helps to explain the kind of answers I need.
posted by jhilton to etiquette/policy at 9:35 AM (55 comments total)

Hopefully you have some interesting links that will get your point across for you.
posted by smackfu at 9:39 AM on February 17, 2005

and if not, a suggestion might be to consider getting your own blog.

Poke around, jhilton, and you will find that nothing stirs the hornets nest around here more than building a post around a political opinion.

Seriously, either choose your (original) links very well and frame them in a way that doesn't push your own agenda or consider that you might need your own blog to flesh out your ideas for changing the tone in Washington.
posted by terrapin at 9:44 AM on February 17, 2005

what I should particularly avoid doing in discussing such matters in this group.

You should avoid discussing it in toto.
posted by dios at 9:44 AM on February 17, 2005

How much does your idea cost? $19.95? Ron Popeil, is that you?
posted by casu marzu at 9:44 AM on February 17, 2005

I should have checked your profile first. You already have your own weblog, and you already use it in an attempt to make your opinions known.

Maybe you need to buy a text ad on MeFi instead?
posted by terrapin at 9:46 AM on February 17, 2005

I think the first thing to consider is (though there is mountains of evidence to the contrary) Metafilter is ideally not a place to grind your ideological axe, no matter what side of the fence you are on.

Secondly, this is primarily an American community, but there are enough non-Americans here who don't feel the need to talk about GVB all day. Though politics comes up here a lot, this isn't a political community (again ideally), and lately some lefty-axe grinders have been the target of Metatalk callouts, even though the majority of us are orientated that way.
posted by Quartermass at 9:46 AM on February 17, 2005

Your website is hilarious. Thanks for sharing.
posted by dios at 9:48 AM on February 17, 2005

OMG it's a new time cube guy.
posted by xmutex at 9:49 AM on February 17, 2005

Make your links interesting and in-depth. Don't rely on news sites or partisan blogs (and don't rely on your own blog, of course.) Neutrality isn't required - this isn't Wikipedia - but best efforts at presenting opposing views will lead to more credibility for your post.

Because your political views are shared by the vast majority of people on Metafilter, de facto Bush=evil posts are preaching to the choir, and frankly, aren't that interesting.

Comments (rather than front page posts) are more free-for-all, but "me too" or "I agree" posts are discouraged simply because they don't add anything to the discussion.

I like Mefi because I couldn't possibly win a Slashdot or Dailykos-type popularity contest where everyone's competing for karma and good mojo from other users. We're a lot more egalitarian here, but there's a certain point at which pure bullshit will get called out.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 9:49 AM on February 17, 2005

OK, I just looked at your blog, and... good luck, dude.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 9:51 AM on February 17, 2005

Hello litmus test: "bush is dumb lol am i rite or what? bush supporters are dumb rite guys?"

My advice would be to stop abusing metatalk to flaunt your political temperament. You’ve already embarrassed and alienated the people who would normally support your dogma, perpetuated a stereotype and caricature of your party identity, and polarized the community with your overt, narrow views. Trifecta complete! This thread was a great idea, mister wacky-democraty!
posted by naxosaxur at 10:03 AM on February 17, 2005

I have some ideas about getting rid of religious fundamentalism, winning the War on Terrorism, and inoculating our nation against ever electing anyone like George Bush to the White House again -- all at the same time and using nothing more lethal than words and a few diagrams.

Does the success of your ideas hinge on planetary alignment or the developement of affordable robot sex slaves? If so MeFi's probably not the best venue.
posted by jonmc at 10:09 AM on February 17, 2005

MS Comic Sans: The font of choice for serious professors everywhere.

On the other hand, I would probably sign up for the robot sex slaves, especially if it'd help us with domestic regime change.
posted by Plutor at 10:15 AM on February 17, 2005

I am also from an older generation, and I am extremely upset about the current atmosphere in Washington, if any of this helps to explain the kind of answers I need.

I'm afraid the kind of answers you need can only be provided by someone licensed to prescribe medication.

After reading your site, I can only say: Take a deep breath, Lee Harvey. This too shall pass.
posted by pardonyou? at 10:17 AM on February 17, 2005

If I get this right, this man wants to rid the world of terrorism and defeat the Republicans and dissolve our current universe and start a new one? Well, we could always use a man with ambition 'round here.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 10:22 AM on February 17, 2005

jonmc: "Does the success of your ideas hinge on planetary alignment or the developement of affordable robot sex slaves? If so MeFi's probably not the best venue."
posted by koeselitz at 10:23 AM on February 17, 2005

I think you may, by now, realize that MeFi is not the kind of place that you thought it was when you posted your question. You might think about looking at Kuro5hin. Seriously, they like essays there that need no external links or anything, and then people discuss them. Have a look, you might like it.

But what do I know, I'm from a younger generation.
posted by OmieWise at 10:26 AM on February 17, 2005

stop being such asses, folks.

jhilton: just chime in on threads that interest you, and if you make a Front Page Post, make sure it's about the links and their content and not primarily about your own opinions.
posted by amberglow at 10:26 AM on February 17, 2005

Do you guys have any idea the amount of snark-restraint I'm mustering right now? My palms are sweaty, my veins are dilated. I'm worried it's going to give me organ failure.
posted by dhoyt at 10:26 AM on February 17, 2005

I find your ideas intriguing and would like to subscribe to your newsletter.
posted by haqspan at 10:29 AM on February 17, 2005

excellent blort! thanks jhilton!
posted by quonsar at 10:32 AM on February 17, 2005

Are you Christo? Your Web page is the same color as...
posted by ParisParamus at 10:33 AM on February 17, 2005

amberglow: have you looked at his blog? It's extra-ordinary, by which I mean, crazily intense and strange. It does take restraint to read the question and the blog and then think about how MeFi could help with the New Big Bang.

jhilton-I'm serious about Kuro5hin, you should check it out. Another benefit there is that your essay will only make it to the front page if people are interested in it, which will help you guage the level of interest in your project at least as well as a $1 e-book.
posted by OmieWise at 10:34 AM on February 17, 2005

I appreciate all of the feedback. It has all been very helpful.

I am not out to convince anyone of anything here or elsewhere, just to make information and ideas available and learn a bit from discussions myself. Unlike Bush, I could be wrong.

On the $19.95 comment, my plan does involve a $1 20,000-word ebook. I am giving it away free at this stage (I need comments, and I need to get reviews posted at Lulu, so this is not a permanent arrangement).

Anyone at this site is welcome to a free copy (no strings attached, no conditions) as long as I leave it up at my Ohio University site It is available here (about a half meg PDF). And there is a shorter free PDF preview available at my Lulu listing.
posted by jhilton at 10:42 AM on February 17, 2005

amberglow: have you looked at his blog? It's extra-ordinary...

I try never to judge people by things extraneous to their words here. For me, it's not at all relevant.
posted by amberglow at 10:48 AM on February 17, 2005

WHOA, NICE HALO DUDE!
posted by quonsar at 10:52 AM on February 17, 2005

jhilton, just take a look at whatever ParisParamus does. you do the opposite, you'll be OK


I'm worried it's going to give me organ failure.

well, as long as you don't get actual organ failure, it's not torture -- Mr Gonzales said it and it's now your govt's official policy, so go ahead.
posted by matteo at 10:59 AM on February 17, 2005

WHOA, NICE HALO DUDE!
Why thanks, hon--i just had it simonized!

*plays harp and floats away, farting all the while*
posted by amberglow at 11:02 AM on February 17, 2005

Okay matteoBot.
posted by dhoyt at 11:02 AM on February 17, 2005

I am getting a sense of the community here, and on the whole, I like it. Seems a lot like a faculty meeting.

But the Kuro5hin suggestion is the best thing that has happened to me so far. Thanks, OmieWise. I owe you one.
posted by jhilton at 11:18 AM on February 17, 2005

My palms are sweaty, my veins are dilated. I'm worried it's going to give me organ failure.

You'll go blind, too.

Now if you'll excuse me, I'm going to try to sing jhilton's book to tunes from The Music Man.
posted by octobersurprise at 11:23 AM on February 17, 2005

sarcasm won't give you organ-failure, abu dhoyt, don't worry. certainly better than good ole nail-rippin'
posted by matteo at 11:25 AM on February 17, 2005

I can't for the life of me figure out how you've singled out me—someone who hasn't commented on the topic of torture in six years of MeFi membership—to hector in a completely unrelated thread. What does jhilton's topic have to do with Gonzalez? Or me? Or anything?

Anyone who's ever doubted your troll status can consider this thread Exhibit A.
posted by dhoyt at 11:41 AM on February 17, 2005

Oh great, just what we need around here, another nutcase. ;-P

] That's praise, btw. [
posted by mischief at 11:41 AM on February 17, 2005

I can't for the life of me figure out how you've singled out me—someone who hasn't commented on the topic of torture in six years of MeFi membership—to hector in a completely unrelated thread.

Uh, reading this in chronological order, it appears you singled Matteo out first, and then he shot back. Unless you guys are using time machines, in which case you should lend me one.
posted by bugbread at 11:48 AM on February 17, 2005

amberglow: have you looked at his blog? It's extra-ordinary...

I try never to judge people by things extraneous to their words here. For me, it's not at all relevant.
posted by amberglow at 10:48 AM PST on February 17

No, really. Did you look at his blog? You don't even have to read it. Just take a quick look.
posted by Jim Jones at 11:59 AM on February 17, 2005

Uh, reading this in chronological order, it appears you singled Matteo out first,

My first comment was to the group at 10:26 AM PST. Matteo's first comment—aimed at me and my apparent love of torture—was at 10:59 AM PST. How do you figure I singled him out first? His obsessive, reflexive, one-note politicizing of the conversation is exactly what earned him the matteoBot handle. See also: nofundybot, foldybot, and so forth.
posted by dhoyt at 12:09 PM on February 17, 2005

Ah, I see that bit now, sorry (just looked for names, and he didn't single you out by name at that point). Still, it just seems to me that it's the normal kind of comment that pops up when "organ failure" comes up, just like if I say the word "overlord", someone will probably start with the "I, for one, welcome..." bit. At least to me, it doesn't look like he was singling you out, it's just that you're the person who happened to utter what, for him, is part of a catchphrase / meme.

If you have a problem with reflexive, one-note politicizing of conversation, then, yeah, it bugs me too, but unless you have some sort of past bad blood with matteo, I think you're confusing him riffing off of something that just happened to be said by you with riffing off of something because it was said by you.
posted by bugbread at 12:26 PM on February 17, 2005

My first comment was... blah blah blah

Your obsessive one-note monitoring and hectoring other people is exactly what should earn you the title OfficialMetaWitchFinderGeneralSelfAppointedHallMonitordhoytonemanpossebot. Man, about 90% of your commentary here or in the blue seems to be you going after someone you don't like. Jesus Christ, you have a lot of free time at work--when do you get anything done ? All you seem to do is take shots at people 24/7. Hence the previous 'here's a guy for whom the sentence Get A Life was written'.
posted by y2karl at 12:34 PM on February 17, 2005

Mr. Joseph N. Hilton, I don't know what your Ph. D. is in, but I'm pretty darn sure it isn't in physics. I don't know what you think photons and the big bang has to do with George Bush being in office, and I'm pretty sure I don't care. I receive a couple of these self-published crackpot theories every semester in my mailbox sent unsolicited by the author. They are all the same. They are rubbish.

I am not happy with GWB in the Whitehouse any more than you seem to be, but the fact that you've been blorted should tell you something about what people around here think of your methods...
posted by achmorrison at 12:39 PM on February 17, 2005

Unfortunately, bug, it's not part of a catchphrase thing, or meme thing. It's a recurring symptom.

Topic: What happens if an American commits a crime in a less-than-free foreign country? [MI]

---

matteo: your wording of "a less-than-free foreign country" was a bit unfortunate in 2005. I mean, some of those "less than free" infidels do not actually fingerprint all foreign visitors who have a regular visa, so it's all relative I guess.
and... pssst.. after Gitmo/Abu Ghraib, freedom versus treatment of foreigners and personal rights can become a rather thorny topic

---


All topics are invitations for matteo to shoehorn his smug, self-congratulatory political opinions, and it doesn't matter to most how obnoxiously he does it because, hey, they agree with him. If I'm the only one calling him on his shit, so be it, I don't mind taking up the mantle.

Karl: speaking of getting a life, how about start contributing to conversations that actually involve you, rather than jumping in late in the game just to 'hector' people?

Hence the previous 'here's a guy for whom the sentence Get A Life was written'.

And hence previous: omfg the irony is incredible.
posted by dhoyt at 12:42 PM on February 17, 2005

Man, I love MeTa.

dhoyt, care to grace us with your opinion on torture?
posted by graventy at 1:03 PM on February 17, 2005

Sure. It's something like this. FWIW, I'm also passionate about my beliefs in the wetness of water and in the likelihood of an easternly-rising sun tommorrow morning.
posted by dhoyt at 1:13 PM on February 17, 2005

Unfortunately, bug, it's not part of a catchphrase thing, or meme thing. It's a recurring symptom.

Well, I was using the word "meme" in a looser (maybe more accurate, maybe less accurate) sense than the way it's used on the net, representing a discrete (if blurry edged) mental concept / thought. Perhaps "trigger" would have been a better word.

For matteo, apparently, "organ failure" is a trigger that causes his thoughts to go to torture, resulting in him posting that which he posts. I'm not saying it's justified, just that your original comment was about why he's singling you out, and it appears, from context, that he wasn't singling you out, you just happened to be the person who said the trigger.

So, in regards to your first complaint: "Why are you singling me out?", I think the answer is (probably) "He's not."

As for your second complaint: "Why do you have to make everything political?", well, I certainly don't know. All I can help out with is complaint number one.

Also, quite randomly and unimportantly: Just from the quotes in this thread (not looking at other threads), it looks like matteo dislikes torture, and you dislike torture, and yet you passionately disagree about your opinion of torture. I'm sure reading other threads would clarify, but it's kinda fun trying to figure out what you two are so passionately disagreeing about with just this thread to go on.
posted by bugbread at 1:22 PM on February 17, 2005

Water is wet?! Sun from the East?! Oh, now you've gone too far, you conservative hack!
posted by graventy at 1:38 PM on February 17, 2005

Rather, east. :)
posted by graventy at 1:40 PM on February 17, 2005

Way to derail this thread guys...
posted by Quartermass at 2:20 PM on February 17, 2005

Derailing this thread saved us from having to delve any more deeply into jhilton's Comic Sans writings, and the theory that he received his education from the same schools as his sister Paris, and for that, I do thank dhoyt personally, although I am somewhat disappointed that he got out of the truck before the MetroLink hit it. It's enough to give me a negative opinion of all MeFites whose nick consists of their first initial and last name.

-wwittler
posted by wendell at 5:00 PM on February 17, 2005

For matteo, apparently, "organ failure" is a trigger that causes his thoughts to go to torture

not exactly. if you allow me to elaborate, it's just that, in AG Gonzales's America, Bush cheerleaders like our oh-so-sensitive dhoyt should be more careful to use words like "organ failure" (which is integral part of Gonzales Theory of Torture, you can google it up easily) or, you know, "shock therapy".
these are words Bush fans should avoid, for a while. they don't make them look good, that's all.

but again, I take pride in my prominent place on senator mcDhoyty's blacklist. I certainly wouldn't want him liking me one bit -- that would have me worried
posted by matteo at 5:01 PM on February 17, 2005

matteo, I know you and dhoyt have a history, but he is not a "Bush cheerleader." I refer you here:

Perhaps the only other people who share equal blame for distorting the image of Moderates everywhere and perpetuating Bush's miserable reign over this country are gun totin', god-lovin', gay-hatin' Middle Americans who actually voted for the man.
posted by languagehat at 5:26 PM on February 17, 2005

his sister Paris

I've been equal parts waiting for that/withholding that since the thread started. Now I don't know whether to thank wendell or berate him for being snarky. :)
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 5:35 PM on February 17, 2005

Me: For matteo, apparently, "organ failure" is a trigger that causes his thoughts to go to torture

Matteo: not exactly...these are words Bush fans should avoid, for a while. they don't make them look good, that's all.

Er, what made you think they should be avoided, if it wasn't that you thought of torture when they were mentioned?
posted by bugbread at 6:31 PM on February 17, 2005

Bush cheerleaders like our oh-so-sensitive dhoyt should be more careful to use words like "organ failure"

• Not a "bush cheerleader", or -voter, or -supporter

• Not going to "be more careful with my words" seeing as how my words had nothing to do with Bush or torture

• Not going to stop pointing it out when you shoehorn your prissy, nofundy-on-PCP political opinions into places they're not relevant

• Not going to stop pointing out the "With Us or Against Us"-style dichotomy you hold over the heads of people who don't blindly hate Bush as much as you
posted by dhoyt at 8:04 PM on February 17, 2005

"All topics are invitations for matteo to shoehorn his smug, self-congratulatory political opinions..."

This is true. It's tiresome. But so is what appears to me to be dhoyt's dogging of matteo (not necessarily in this thread) and y2karl's dogging of dhoyt.

The exhibition of obsessive mefi grudges does more to harm a person's credibility than almost anything else, I'd wager.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:07 PM on February 17, 2005

It's tiresome

coming from a man who needs not just paragraphs but whole chapters to make a point this is a bit rich.
posted by matteo at 8:46 AM on February 18, 2005