Comments on 9161 | MetaTalk

Someone complained about my "rich and happy" question. I can only assume others feel the same.
Give it to me straight - what's wrong with it? Rip it apart. I can take it. What doesn't kill me makes makes me a better MeFite.
posted by hellbient to etiquette/policy at 3:52 PM (25 comments total)

I like your attitude, hellbient! But I also liked the "rich and happy" question, so I can't help you on this one.
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 3:59 PM on March 2, 2005 [1 favorite]

I would imagine that the problem was that it is an example of chatfilter.
posted by redfoxtail at 4:03 PM on March 2, 2005

thanks Pinks (I kid).
; )
posted by hellbient at 4:05 PM on March 2, 2005

I thought it was a weak question for ask metafilter. I'd rather things that are not only direct questions with answers, but that if advice is being asked for, that it is directed towards a goal.

That was too open ended for a "good" ask metafilter question, it's just people spouting opinions back and forth, and you have your opinion on the matter, so I'm not sure what you get out of it and what readers get out of it.
posted by mathowie at 4:05 PM on March 2, 2005

I would imagine that the problem was that it is an example of chatfilter.

gee, that's helpful. That word gets thrown around alot. Care to elaborate? Would someone care to define this, for all?
posted by hellbient at 4:09 PM on March 2, 2005

ok, how about:

chatfilter: it's just people spouting opinions back and forth, and you have your opinion on the matter, so I'm not sure what you get out of it and what readers get out of it.
posted by mathowie at 4:16 PM on March 2, 2005

Matt, what do you think about a separate navelgazingquestions.metafilter.com site for that kind of question? I like the people here, and their random bullshitting is often enlightening, but I can see how it doesn't fit on AskMetafilter.
posted by Hildago at 4:22 PM on March 2, 2005

I like the people here, and their random bullshitting is often enlightening...

I agree...and find that I learn quite alot from the often engaging and sometimes random "give-and-take" that occurs here - albeit the occasional flame-war, pile-on, or personal spats - but, even some of those are, at the very least, entertaining.
posted by ericb at 4:49 PM on March 2, 2005

it's just people spouting opinions back and forth

This is such an odd position, to me. Some of my favorite discussions on this site are those that begin with a more open-ended question, such as the Important Moments In Your Life AskMe thread we had recently, that's a shining example of a question without a "direct" or "best" answer. Even so, the result was tear-jerkingly, stunningly beautiful.

Now, if you were going to say "oh well that's an exception, that thread was great," how do we define what a great thread is or is not? Why, by our participation, of course.

Ultimately, questions that just aren't so great get a handful of comments and fall off in a week or so. The advantage to allowing such open-ended questions is shown by the frequent extraordinary conversations that crop up as a result of the better ones.
posted by odinsdream at 4:50 PM on March 2, 2005

Fair enough Matt. So the key word is "opinion" here. That makes sense.
FWIW, there was also information passed on that I found helpful.

odinsdream - I would assume the life-changing question was good because it was profound, or brought out a profoundness, and provoked sharing, not just opinions. But yeah, that question has probably influenced a bunch of chatting questions.
Maybe there should be a "chat/opinion" warning on the post page?

Would there have been a better way to put my question? I can't think of one, but that's probably because I'm tired and still slightly hungover.
posted by hellbient at 5:05 PM on March 2, 2005

The points in your life was totally chatfilter, but at least it asked from the start what everyone's memories were, not their opinions on something.

Sometimes the open ended questions basically boil down to "how can I be happier" and often a group of strangers can't help you, but a shrink probably can.

Nothing's black and white about MetaFilter, and on the continuous gray scale, I'd say the happy thread was pretty close to one of the endpoints. I didn't delete it, and it hasn't spawned dozens of similar questions, so that's a good sign not everyone wants to ask these types of questions.
posted by mathowie at 5:10 PM on March 2, 2005

are these just sayings people spout without really thinking about to make the poor feel better/keep the peace, or are they true more often than naught?

The answer to this question is, there is no answer; you just want to know what people think about the topic you've raised. If there was something you wanted to get out of the answer, or a reason you wanted to know, or an incident that had spawned this question, it would have seemed more personal and/or relevant. As it was, it just seemed like a way to use AskMe's brain trust to engage in a little intellectual banter about something you were curious about. I see "chatfilter" posts as saying "Let's talk about X" not "I want to know/learn Y" and a lot of them are really interesting, but if AskMe fills up with these sorts of posts, it becomes less useful, imho.
posted by jessamyn at 5:19 PM on March 2, 2005

It seems like an open-ended question at first, but real empirical research is being done by economists and sociologists to determine the link between happiness and money. Check out the Robert Frank article gd779 links to. There are answers to this question.

The problem with the question, I guess, is that it invites people to just spout off their own personal philosophies about happiness. It might have gone down beter had you said, "It seems to me that it's really hard to be both rich and happy. Can anyone direct me to any fiction or research that deals with this subject?"
posted by painquale at 5:41 PM on March 2, 2005

Although I kind of liked it, I like the kind of discussion the this sort of question elicits from the crowd here, I agree that it doesn't really conform to the AskMe model of a question that helps someone solve an issue or problem. Most of these chatty questions could much better fit into the design profile if they were just reworded properly. "I am rich" or "I want to be rich" or "I have a rich friend" and "I worry that wealth and happiness may not be compatible. Is this just a myth? What strategies would you suggest for having my cake and eating it too? Marie Antoinette lost her head over this, I would like to keep mine."
posted by caddis at 5:43 PM on March 2, 2005

I think what set the Important Moments thread apart from this one is that there was no room for people to disagree with each other. There was no You're wrong! That wasn't a pivotal moment in your life! Asking for stories isn't the same as asking people to debate their personal philosophies.

(Now, FWIW, I've got nothing against debating personal philosophies, and I rather liked where the Rich and Happy thread went. I'm just saying, the Important Moments thread isn't really a good one to compare it too.)
posted by nebulawindphone at 6:16 PM on March 2, 2005

you just want to know what people think about the topic you've raised.

sure, but I did really have a personal reason for asking it. I alluded to it with I tend to think I could be happy and rich at the same time, but I suppose it wasn't enough to convey a more intimate need to know. It was an attempt to tackle a "truism", for lack of a better word. It wasn't just a flip question, I thought alot about it before posting it.
And I think there was an answer to the question. I'd say I'm a bit wiser in reading the responses.
I'll try and get more specific and personal next time...
posted by hellbient at 6:29 PM on March 2, 2005

"sure, but I did really have a personal reason for asking it....but I suppose it wasn't enough to convey a more intimate need to know....I'll try and get more specific and personal next time..."

I infer (but, may indeed be wrong) that you (or, someone else) may have "come-of-age" for a trust-fund, or some other "windfall".

Nonetheless, let me suggest a "good read" - "Money and the Meaning of Life" by Jacob Needleman.
posted by ericb at 8:57 PM on March 2, 2005

The points in your life was totally chatfilter, but at least it asked from the start what everyone's memories were, not their opinions on something.

I'm trying like hell, but I think I'm starting to lose the plot here a bit.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:46 AM on March 3, 2005

Godddaaamn you, hellbient!! You broke AskMe.

;-)
posted by Shane at 6:33 AM on March 3, 2005

I normally dislike font manipulations here on Metafilter, but that was pretty cool Shane.
posted by caddis at 7:51 AM on March 3, 2005

Some of my favorite discussions on this site are those that begin with a more open-ended question, such as the Important Moments In Your Life AskMe thread

I hate to piss in people's cornflakes, but I really had a problem with that thread. It read to me like a contest of one-upmanship, where each person tried to out-horror the previous. And frankly I didn't buy very much of it. For every heartfelt response there were probably three that were utterly fiction.

To me, that's the problem with chatfilter-- if people are asked about something specific and useful, then real-life experience can figure in the answer and make it better. If it's just people writing fiction about how an encounter with bullies at the age of six made them an alcoholic, spare us. It doesn't help.
posted by norm at 8:03 AM on March 3, 2005

Five more days until:
I'm sad. Does anyone know why Shane hates me : ( ?

That's okay right?
I'll be darned if I'm not getting this AskMe thing down...
posted by hellbient at 10:09 AM on March 3, 2005

oh and ericb - unfortunately, I didn't come into a trust fund, the reason is more shallow, ala caddis example "I'd like to be rich...".
posted by hellbient at 10:13 AM on March 3, 2005

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