Comments on 9495 | MetaTalk

In two threads, there are nearly 100 comments about an image needlessly used in a comment that dozens flagged as offensive, which I removed. It didn't add anything to the discussion. The original and followup threads weren't good uses of metatalk, since this was pretty much an insignificant problem.

But the fervor I'm hearing about the tiniest of comment deletions or edits lately reminds me of python's "Every Sperm is Sacred." Every comment is not sacred. It's a website on a rickety ass server that could die tomorrow, not the lord's parchment.

It was just a stupid image. Why the big fuss?
posted by mathowie at 1:43 PM on May 9, 2005

I think breezeway was referring to the more subtle information about the character/personality of #mefi, not just basic information. In that respect I agree with bw's sentiment.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 1:44 PM on May 9, 2005

The thread in question was about the decision to remove the img of the self-immolator and end discussion in the previous MeTa thread.

I accidentally derailed it in a show of ignorance about #mefi, and learned quite a bit about #mefi in the process. The original question (Witty's) was legitimate, and the derail was informative and truthful.

I'm not angling for a ban here. I'm trying to understand the way this place works so I can be a better member. This isn't the first time I've experienced a senseless deletion. What gives?
posted by breezeway at 1:45 PM on May 9, 2005

It was just a stupid image. Why the big fuss?

I think breezeway already said this wasn't about the image. He was learning that his ASSumptions about #mefi were incorrect.
posted by terrapin at 1:45 PM on May 9, 2005

breezeway, lame threads that might contain one or two helpful comments aren't enough in most cases to keep lame threads around, so I deleted them.

There are better sources for information on MeFi IRC, like the wiki page listed.

The original question (Witty's) was legitimate

Not in my opinion. It sounded like someone taking the image removal in a comment too seriously. If you agree the original image was pointless, follow up threads exhaustively debating it (like this one too) seem rather pointless don't they?
posted by mathowie at 1:50 PM on May 9, 2005

subtle information about the character/personality of #mefi

the best way to get that information is just to jump in. Just don't come in guns-a-blazing, because people will probably be rude to you -- #mefi tends to be more welcoming to folks who take some time in channel to understand the flavor of #mefi and how it's different from metafilter proper. The people who have had a bad experience with #mefi usually come in there like noisy american tourists, whining when their expectations are not met -- these people are usually not well liked by mefi regulars.

being a mefi oldschooler will probably not prevent you from being a #mefi newbie.
posted by fishfucker at 1:50 PM on May 9, 2005

It's a website on a rickety ass server that could die tomorrow, not the lord's parchment.

Uh oh.

*tries to recall Plastic password*
posted by mediareport at 1:52 PM on May 9, 2005

Witty's thread was a response to the first thread being closed.
This thread was in response to Witty's being closed plus deleted.
Seems like there is a discussion that people want to hash out and the multiple threads exist because the discussion being stifled. Closing a thread makes sense when we reach comment 200 where its nothing except pancakes and images. But when there is more discussion to be had, it looks like it sprouts out somewhere else when prematurely stifled.
posted by dios at 1:53 PM on May 9, 2005

mathowie writes "But the fervor I'm hearing about the tiniest of comment deletions or edits lately reminds me of python's 'Every Sperm is Sacred.' Every comment is not sacred. It's a website on a rickety ass server that could die tomorrow, not the lord's parchment. "

Agreed, agreed. "Let the heathen spill theirs on the dusty ground...'

But precisely because the comments are so evanescent, because the threads are so ephemeral, why do you go to the trouble to close them, and even delete them from sight (the site)?

When you're not willing to let something that surely will fade on the vine, fade in its own brief time, that unnecessary hastening raises more questions than it puts to rest: "what is it about those threads that mathowie doesn't want seen?" "What is it that is forbidden to be said or be read on MetaFilter?"

Why go to the extra trouble? What was gained by closing one thread and deleting the thread that questioned the closing?
posted by orthogonality at 1:54 PM on May 9, 2005

One helpful note, breezeway: If you are on #mefi and need advice about it, just put me on ignore. :-D
posted by shepd at 1:54 PM on May 9, 2005

I'm trying to understand the way this place works so I can be a better member.

THAT WOULD BE AGAINST THE RULES
posted by quonsar at 1:54 PM on May 9, 2005

I'm trying to understand the way this place works so I can be a better member

You want better member, I have pills for that, $50.
posted by dodgygeezer at 1:58 PM on May 9, 2005

dios : "But when there is more discussion to be had"

Ah, but there's the rub. Perhaps more discussion is to be had, but more fruitful discussion? Unlike the blue, the grey is supposed to be utilitarian. Once discussion is had, and the decision has been made, the discussion that follows (enjoyable as it may be) is no different than the sound of tumbling rocks or dogs falling down stairs.

If someone has something earthshatteringly important, insightful, and matt-shaking, the option to email him is available. Otherwise, each post is far more likely to be a repetition of the same arguments, phrased subtly differently, and hence just as useless.

Just a guess.
posted by bugbread at 1:59 PM on May 9, 2005

there are bugs in your bread, man.
posted by quonsar at 2:01 PM on May 9, 2005

What shepd said.
posted by terrapin at 2:01 PM on May 9, 2005

It's unfortunate that ths discussion of #mefi is now lost down the memory hole. But it's not a national disaster.

I'd really appreciate it if someone could re-post the info on how to log into #mefi through a browser - or if the Wiki (&, ideally, the MeFi page about #mefi) could be updated to include this info.
posted by raedyn at 2:03 PM on May 9, 2005

http://irc.turlyming.com/irc

quick. before mathole deletes it.
posted by quonsar at 2:04 PM on May 9, 2005

raedyn Second comment in THIS thread.
posted by terrapin at 2:06 PM on May 9, 2005

I made an assumption about #mefi that was wrong. I gathered, from what folks said in response, that others had assumed the same thing.

Through a long (more than "one or two helpful comments," but who's to know now?) and mostly interesting conversation, I got an idea of the truth regarding #mefi, and was corrected on some of my misconceptions about how it and how MeFi/MeTa are run.

The delete button has been used cavalierly of late. The fact that you didn't know about the useful (to me) derail in Witty's thread bolsters that conception.

Matt, use of the delete button is the heaviest of your reponsibilities as a sysop. Please use it with care and caution. Otherwise, you risk destroying constructive conversation, which is something MeTa needs more of, not less.

On preview, forget it. This place isn't what it used to be, and your aims aren't what they used to be. You should probably delete this thread, too, because you don't give a damn. That's just plain bad administration.

If that stings, you can always delete it. If it doesn't, it hardly matters what you do.
posted by breezeway at 2:09 PM on May 9, 2005

Thank you quonsar.

Terrapin - no. There is info at that link for how to get to #mefi through an IRC client. Not the same thing.
posted by raedyn at 2:10 PM on May 9, 2005

It was just a stupid image. Why the big fuss?

Exactly. So why delete it... because AR couldn't understand its meaning? Because I don't see any other possible reason.

My problem wasn't necessarily that the image was deleted. It's how it came to be deleted that I had a problem with. It wasn't overly offensive (although it may have been to some, but what isn't). It wasn't exactly off-topic or a derailer or anything else of the sort. So to me, it was simply deleted because someone was acting like an idiot and claiming that it "didn't make sense".

Everyone else seemed to understand without a problem. Yet the discussion prompts the deletion. That doesn't seem right, when there's another image in the thread that is certainly more pointless and all that, and yet it remains.

Does it really matter? Of course not. Does any of this? I'm not trying to waste your time Matt, but I was a bit disappointed that you made the decision you did and closed the original thread so that I couldn't say so. I guess I should have just gone and cried to my mommy instead. :)
posted by Witty at 2:11 PM on May 9, 2005

Terrapin - sorry. You're right, I'm apparently blind. I read that page several times, and somehow managed to skip that line every time. Mea culpa.
posted by raedyn at 2:12 PM on May 9, 2005

Bad job.

Totally unreasonable.

did you even read it before you bombed it?

I'm trying to understand the way this place works so I can be a better member.

Three of these things belong together
Three of these things are kind of the same
But one of these things just doesn't belong here
Now it's time to play our game
posted by anapestic at 2:16 PM on May 9, 2005

raedyn - no, i JUST added that line to the wiki. :-)
posted by quonsar at 2:17 PM on May 9, 2005

*sigh* X2
posted by schyler523 at 2:20 PM on May 9, 2005

So to me, it was simply deleted because someone was acting like an idiot and claiming that it "didn't make sense".

From the very mouth of Three Blind Mice, himself:

...complaints that i should have only posted a hyperlink to the image instead of the image itself are well taken.

From the MetaTalk Wiki:

MeTa is a place to talk about what we talk about on MetaFilter... On a typical day you might see threads about:

• the appropriateness of a particular MeFi post or comment

1) The person who posted the image admits he made a mistake; and,

2) The MeTa wiki points out that MeTa is where you take questions of this sort

So, Witty, what more is there to discuss, other than the vitriol-filled spittle you want flying in my direction because of your own personal problems? Because let me be clear, it's you who is dragging this out to the very last yard, again and again.
posted by AlexReynolds at 2:21 PM on May 9, 2005

Because let me be clear, it's you who is dragging this out to the very last yard, again and again.
posted by AlexReynolds at 2:21 PM PST on May 9 [!]

*rubs eyes* *looks again, still there*

Have I unwittingly stumbled into BizzaroFilter?

AR, are you really suggesting that it wasn't your squeaky wheel that started this trainwreck?
posted by schyler523 at 2:27 PM on May 9, 2005

Last comment:

1) No, he admitted that an alternative link to the image might have been better. He did nothing wrong posting the image.

2) Questions of what sort? "I don't understand what the commentors means with this comment"? If you say so. I still say, you should have just asked him... like a normal person would have done.

So, Witty, what more is there to discuss, other than the vitriol-filled spittle you want flying in my direction because of your own personal problems?

Ha... everything to get, you bring upon yourself. Please. Don't be such a Dram...
posted by Witty at 2:27 PM on May 9, 2005

Anapestic, your willful misunderstanding is as bad as Mr. Haughey's thoughtless deletions. If you were able to read the deleted thread, you might understand better why all four belong together.

This has been a discouraging day.

And on preview, AR, you miss the point of this thread. Sometimes derails are very helpful. In this case, it was one of the most helpful threads I've been involved with on MeTa, because it disabused me of some of my more foolish notions and helped me (and I can only assume, others) to be, if not a better, at least a more informed member. Deleting it was a mistake.
posted by breezeway at 2:28 PM on May 9, 2005

On preview, forget it. This place isn't what it used to be...

I agree: I liked it better before you got here too.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 2:28 PM on May 9, 2005

AR, are you really suggesting that it wasn't your squeaky wheel that started this trainwreck?

If I had used a different username, I'd bet it wouldn't be a trainwreck.

Even so, I'm not the one who keeps whining about it over and over again. What a drama queen. Seriously, Witty, STFU already.
posted by AlexReynolds at 2:29 PM on May 9, 2005

Alex, you never conceded that you prattish behavior was inappropriate and delete-worthy as well. So that discussion was still to be had. You seem to advocate that your infantile posting of the Drama Queen logo at least ten times was appropriate behavior whilst the immolation picture as not. That is a question of policy which needed to be fleshed out.
posted by dios at 2:31 PM on May 9, 2005

AlexReynolds writes "2) The MeTa wiki points out that MeTa is where you take questions of this sort"

Yes, but why?

I've objected to Steve_at_Linnwood and dios making whining call-outs over FPPs that they felt "inappropriate" and I won't let my ideological common-ground with AlexReynolds get in the way of once again saying: the best response to "bad" speech is more speech -- and by "more speech", I don't mean speech that begs for the suppression of what you find distasteful.

It's a post or a comment. There are many many others. You can even make your own post or comments if you don't like the posts or comments others have made. Do that, but enough with the whining and kvetching in MeTa. It's just too damn tedious.
posted by orthogonality at 2:31 PM on May 9, 2005

Also, since it was deleted, I feel compelled that to repeat the most important part of the no longer extant thread:

Stinky is the bombest.
posted by dios at 2:32 PM on May 9, 2005

*bitch slaps MetaFilter*

ow.
posted by sciurus at 2:42 PM on May 9, 2005

Alex writes: If I had used a different username, I'd bet it wouldn't be a trainwreck.

Doesn't that imply something very important? Quit dancing around the huge pink elephant in the room and address the issue: why does your username create such a fuss around here? And if you can't take at least partial blame for your predicament, then perhaps it would be wise to buy another user name.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 2:43 PM on May 9, 2005

Y'all better quit fussin. Number One just brought home a new baby. He might just decide this place isn't worth all the aggravation now....
posted by konolia at 2:43 PM on May 9, 2005

you don't give a damn. That's just plain bad administration. ...
Mr. Haughey's thoughtless deletions
Mr. Haughey's time
Mr. Haughey's effort
Mr. Haughey's vision
Mr. Haughey's burden
Mr. Haughey's thinning hair
Mr. Haughey's lack of sleep
Mr. Haughey's allowing you to spout this air, be just a little respectful, please? This is not one of Stalin's purges, and I'm sure he doesn't view this as the beginning of a vendetta against you and your education. You got on the bad end of an odd decision, but you've got the voice to ask the questions again.

So everything's OK, isn't it?

On preview: konolia finishes my sentence.
posted by NinjaPirate at 2:45 PM on May 9, 2005

Y'all better quit fussin. Number One just brought home a new baby. He might just decide this place isn't worth all the aggravation now....

oh, he's been deliberately stabbing it to death and shrugging "what's all the fuss?" for many months now. i'd point you to the original voluminous discussions of his sudden bizarre deletion fixation, but he deleted them.
posted by quonsar at 2:49 PM on May 9, 2005

oooh ! hi konolia !
posted by sgt.serenity at 2:50 PM on May 9, 2005

If I had used a different username, I'd bet it wouldn't be a trainwreck.

I bet it would have been. It just wouldn't have the extra flame of your past inflagrations.
posted by me3dia at 2:52 PM on May 9, 2005

I'm with konolia. Matt's already dealing with one creature that wets itself and cries for attention. He dosen't need to deal with 23710 more.
posted by jonmc at 2:53 PM on May 9, 2005

Quit dancing around the huge pink elephant in the room and address the issue: why does your username create such a fuss around here?

Because some people can't let it go, and assume any criticism I make is an overreaction, even when others agreed with me.

And if you can't take at least partial blame for your predicament, then perhaps it would be wise to buy another user name.

I can't do anything about how some keep needling me, and while I'm not going to complain, I will continue to ignore it.

Fact remains, the post was spurred by a really poor use of an inline tag, the poster agreed, and the problem was solved. Thanks.
posted by AlexReynolds at 2:57 PM on May 9, 2005

- Number One just brought home a new baby.
- oh, he's been deliberately stabbing it to death and shrugging "what's all the fuss?"

OH MY GOD!!!!
posted by dodgygeezer at 2:59 PM on May 9, 2005

I guess I'll post about peak oil in this thread too: it's real, guys.
posted by moift at 2:59 PM on May 9, 2005

Metafilter: 23710 creatures that wet themselves and cry for attention.
posted by casu marzu at 3:02 PM on May 9, 2005

He might just decide this place isn't worth all the aggravation now....

And there it is, really. The fact that this communal site incorporates the personal in a fairly unique way is one of the things that drew and kept me here; it's an amazing place. But there comes a point, it seems, when you have to reconcile yourself to the fact that a site based mainly on the astonishing, long-term generosity of "Number One" has limits (best expressed by konolia's "watch out or he'll pull the plug" comment).

Looks like breezeway's hit that point. Work through it, breezeway; you got sucked into someone's marvelously engaging personal project. Matt not only makes mistakes, he's also (apparently) not yet figured out a comfortable, workable way to turn Mefi over to a trusted group, and perhaps simply doesn't want to give up his creation to anyone else.

Once you notice (and many who never spend time in MeTa don't notice, I imagine), you kind of get to a point where you accept it. Or, I suppose, you leave. Sure is amazing how many folks stay. Hell, it wouldn't surprise me if there are some sticking around in part to see how Matt ends it.

I can't help but wonder how much notice we'll get. Hopefully it will be quite a bit.
posted by mediareport at 3:02 PM on May 9, 2005

I can't do anything about how some keep needling me, and while I'm not going to complain

God, you're hilarious. You post images to annoy people for fun, and then call out a silly image in a thread in MeTa *after* flagging it. What the hell are you doing, Alex? Aside from making a spectacle of yourself?

And now we find out you have multiple accounts? Oh boy, can't wait to see what you've been pulling with those.
posted by mediareport at 3:06 PM on May 9, 2005

You post images to annoy people for fun, and then call out a silly image in a thread in MeTa *after* flagging it.

Your logic is amazing: modified dairy queen logo = man burning to death. What other Popperesque feats shall you perform for us next?
posted by AlexReynolds at 3:13 PM on May 9, 2005

What are your other accounts, Alex?
posted by mediareport at 3:14 PM on May 9, 2005

Why should I tell you, of all people?
posted by AlexReynolds at 3:17 PM on May 9, 2005

I didn't want to say anything earlier, but...

AlexReynolds is dhoyt.
posted by casu marzu at 3:17 PM on May 9, 2005

Whoa, Konolia's back! Welcome back!

Alex, new accounts are 5 bucks. I'm not telling you to get one, but from a strictly rationalist viewpoint (presuming that you have $5 to kick around):

If you don't enjoy all the hullabaloo associated with AlexReynolds, getting a new account would be the clear course of action.
If you don't get a new account, it seems fairly clear that you enjoy all the hullabaloo associated with AlexReynolds.

AlexReynolds : " Your logic is amazing: modified dairy queen logo = man burning to death. What other Popperesque feats shall you perform for us next?"

Yours is too. Mediareport = dead British philosopher?! How does he post from beyond the grave??
posted by bugbread at 3:17 PM on May 9, 2005

I guess I'll post about peak oil in this thread too: it's real, guys.

Shut up, you Cassandra.

[lol j/k peak oil]
posted by greasy_skillet at 3:18 PM on May 9, 2005

I didn't want to say anything earlier, but...
AlexReynolds is dhoyt.

That was low, casu.
posted by dhoyt at 3:21 PM on May 9, 2005

Go outside some time, you whiny jerks.
posted by kjh at 3:25 PM on May 9, 2005

If I had a different username, this post would be smarter.
posted by Termite at 3:25 PM on May 9, 2005

I'm Alex Reynold's other account.
posted by bugbread at 3:29 PM on May 9, 2005

[18:24] <AReynolds> give me a sex
posted by quonsar at 3:32 PM on May 9, 2005

*tsk* No, you're not.
posted by AlexReynolds at 3:32 PM on May 9, 2005

Well played, me.
posted by bugbread at 3:45 PM on May 9, 2005

i am alex reynolds spleen. see me burst.
posted by quonsar at 3:48 PM on May 9, 2005

quonsar is really Ethereal Bligh.
posted by casu marzu at 3:49 PM on May 9, 2005

mmph, mmph.
posted by quonsar at 3:50 PM on May 9, 2005

I am Alex Reynolds.
posted by attentionwhore at 3:53 PM on May 9, 2005

Someone remind me what voodoo quonsar uses to avoid being banned.

What a dick.
posted by bugbread at 3:53 PM on May 9, 2005

*waves at konolia, wonders where she's been, hopes all is well, also wonders if Miguel is with her*
: >

and I'm not Alex, but this making every thread about him is really dumb.
posted by amberglow at 3:54 PM on May 9, 2005

I am Alex Reynolds.
posted by attentionwhore at 3:53 PM PST on May 9 [!]

We have a winner.
posted by thedevildancedlightly at 3:54 PM on May 9, 2005

I have to agree with breezeway, delete this thread!

You can stick it in your archive, q.

Fun to see konolia back!

*delete*
posted by asok at 3:54 PM on May 9, 2005

Let's keep going until this thread self immolates...
posted by Termite at 3:56 PM on May 9, 2005

Wait, you mean quonsar is dick?
posted by casu marzu at 3:59 PM on May 9, 2005

casu marzu : "Wait, you mean quonsar is dick?"

Just like Superman.
posted by bugbread at 4:06 PM on May 9, 2005

got a lion in my pocket, and baby he's ready to snore.
posted by quonsar at 4:14 PM on May 9, 2005

How does he post from beyond the grave??

MetaFilter Pro has powerful mojo.
posted by kirkaracha at 4:23 PM on May 9, 2005

Hi Konolia!
posted by spaghetti at 4:27 PM on May 9, 2005

Has anyone seen my socks?
posted by mischief at 4:36 PM on May 9, 2005

blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
posted by seanyboy at 4:36 PM on May 9, 2005

matt: My sympathies. Clearly comment and thread deletion have been brought down to a more resonable level.
posted by delmoi at 4:38 PM on May 9, 2005

mischeif: they're behind the couch, next to the knobby electric dildo.
posted by jonmc at 4:42 PM on May 9, 2005

Hi, Konolia! I was just thinking about you, and was going to check your blog to see where you've been, how things have been going for you, and if we could expect you back. And here you are! Cool!

People do notice. On the other hand, most people don't. So I suppose the lesson is that none of us are really that important to mefi as a whole (as I've claimed) but at least some of us are important to some others of us. Which isn't really a revelation, is it?

"...he's also (apparently) not yet figured out a comfortable, workable way to turn Mefi over to a trusted group"

Why should he? And who says there actually is a "trusted group" to whom to turn it over? All this whining about fairness and deletions almost makes me want to see Matt and jessamyn, instead of listening and trying to take these ~~whines~~ concerns into account, become completely arbitrary—deleting posts and comments at random or, better yet, against those members who ~~whine~~ are the most sensitive. Starting with quonsar and moving quickly to AlexReynolds. I think AR's comments should be edited so that their meaning is changed randomly. qonsar's comments should have their whinges removed and humor added, so's he's more like the old q. Alternatively, maybe matt should just give quonsar's account to dios without telling anyone.

So, has anyone threatened to leave? Or announced that they're leaving yet? Breezeway's come close. We need a good flameout to make this thread worth it. Alex, do you need both your hands? You'll get along just fine with only one, right? Wouldn't much impact your quality of life, I'd wager.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 5:18 PM on May 9, 2005

look an 80 comment thread about IRC is kind of heavy on the pointless side, can't we agree on this
posted by angry modem at 5:20 PM on May 9, 2005

and I'm not Alex, but this making every thread about him is really dumb.

Don't you hate how spell check doesn't catch it when one misspells a word with another real word, like "this" when you meant "his"?
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 5:42 PM on May 9, 2005

Hey, that's not MY knobby electric dildo! Mine is still in the shower like always.

In appreciation for the socks however, here is a link to some Nels Cline mp3s.
posted by mischief at 5:48 PM on May 9, 2005

Why should he?

He doesn't have to at all. That's my point. You either get comfortable with that or you don't.
posted by mediareport at 5:53 PM on May 9, 2005

Ethereal Blight wrote:
"All this whining about fairness and deletions almost makes me want to see Matt and jessamyn, instead of listening and trying to take these whines concerns into account, become completely arbitrary—deleting posts and comments at random or, better yet, against those members who ~~whine~~ are the most sensitive."

That sounds like a good idea to me!

". . . quonsar . . . AlexReynolds . . ."

Ahh, but you're forgotten the most sensitive drama queen in the recorded history of Metafilter - Ethereal Bligh!

quonsar wrote:
"mmph, mmph."

Quonsar is, as usual, completely correct: watching Ethereal Bligh's oeuvre on Metafilter has been a lot like reading "Flowers for Algernon."
posted by Ryvar at 6:26 PM on May 9, 2005

This is IRC.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:30 PM on May 9, 2005

/me giggles
posted by quonsar at 6:57 PM on May 9, 2005

I am Alex Reynolds.
posted by attentionwhore at 3:53 PM PST on May 9

I guess it costs $5 to be a cowardly weasel. Hope you enjoyed it. Me, I'd have spent the money on music or something fun.
posted by AlexReynolds at 7:32 PM on May 9, 2005

oh, give yourself a sex.
posted by quonsar at 7:34 PM on May 9, 2005

I guess it costs $5 to be a cowardly weasel. Hope you enjoyed it. Me, I'd have spent the money on music or something fun. - AlexReynolds, five minutes ago

In hindsight I should have posted this under a different account. - AlexReynolds, 10 hours ago

I'm curious about one thing: do you ever actually put thought into what you write, or do you simply type whatever pops into your head at the moment?
posted by SeizeTheDay at 7:42 PM on May 9, 2005

I'm guessing the latter.
posted by bugbread at 7:53 PM on May 9, 2005

I'm curious about one thing: do you ever actually put thought into what you write, or do you simply type whatever pops into your head at the moment?

Do those two comments have anything to do with each other whatsoever? Do you ever actually put thought into your insults or do you simply come up with whatever pops into your head at the moment?
posted by AlexReynolds at 7:53 PM on May 9, 2005

I'm guessing the latter, too.
posted by AlexReynolds at 7:53 PM on May 9, 2005

You can lead a horse to water, but you cannot make him drink.
posted by SeizeTheDay at 7:58 PM on May 9, 2005

Wipe the spittle off your mouth. It helps.
posted by AlexReynolds at 8:00 PM on May 9, 2005

breezeway, you're being a bit cavalier in your senseless whining. It's not as if the thread was the only place to learn about #mefi. There's absolutely zero sense in claiming matthowie's abusing the delete button because he deprived you of a side discussion in a stupid thread that never should've existed in the first place. If you'd stepped back and thought about it for a minute you would've been better off posting a meta thread asking for info about the #mefi subculture. Instead you had some axe to grind and failed miserably even at that. Do you realize that God kills a toddler when people make whiny, combative posts to the gray? Think of the children.

While I'm at it, can we just ban the image tag? Images drastically lower the level of discourse They don't fit with Mefi's spartan, text-oriented scheme. They're very rarely funny. (Though I still love Miguel-signal.) Really, this isn't fark. If people really want images let them post links and spare the rest of us.
posted by nixerman at 8:22 PM on May 9, 2005

Images drastically lower the level of discourse

Seconded. Force folks to make jokes with words, please, not Photoshop.
posted by mediareport at 8:27 PM on May 9, 2005

Really, this isn't fark.

it's not important to be fark. it's important to strive to be fark. it builds character.
posted by quonsar at 8:28 PM on May 9, 2005

Don't bother coming to #mefi if you haven't been there before. Only right-wingers and Quonsar are allowed anyways... orthogonality found that out right quick...
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 8:34 PM on May 9, 2005

THERE IS NO CABAL...
posted by Dreamghost at 8:36 PM on May 9, 2005

Who is Alex Reynolds?
posted by konolia at 8:39 PM on May 9, 2005

konolia- just hang out a second, you can't miss him.
posted by exlotuseater at 8:48 PM on May 9, 2005

http://tapes.ieattapes.com/2005/05/10/welcome-to-mefi
posted by Steve_at_Linnwood at 8:57 PM on May 9, 2005

"Ahh, but you're forgotten the most sensitive drama queen in the recorded history of Metafilter - Ethereal Bligh"

J'accuse! This is entirely untrue and libelous! You are obviously motivated by extreme envy of my massive oevre; not in decline, certainly, but rising—thrusting ever upwards, glistening with quonsar's Seal of Approval (which you so clearly covet). Your motivations are undoubtedly racist, your words homophobic, your thoughts sexist, and your aims fascist!

It is true, however, that I am quite sensitive. Sensations are my forte. (That's pronounced 'fOrt, you cretin.) I am sensation incarnate. I am Ethereal Bligh.

Well, I'm off to my nightly visit to #mefi. You can find me there as "marble".
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 9:35 PM on May 9, 2005

I have a dog and 4 hermit crabs plus a fish. I really like to play baseball and football. I am in 2nd grade. My teacher is Mrs. Buchholz. I am in the SOAR class at school. It is really fun and we are learning about Ancient Egypt.
posted by thatweirdguy2 at 10:57 PM on May 9, 2005

Wow, this #mefi really seems to change people.

It's good to have a last resort other than EST.
posted by scarabic at 11:09 PM on May 9, 2005

EST?
posted by shmegegge at 12:33 AM on May 10, 2005

ElectroShock Therapy.
posted by Tlogmer at 1:36 AM on May 10, 2005

Eastern Standard Time. I've heard that a trip back east is quite rejuvenating for someone from northern California. An alternative is ECT, electroconvulsive therapy, the benefits of which I'd describe except that I seem to have forgotten them.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 1:40 AM on May 10, 2005

*rolfing on the laughing floor*
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 1:43 AM on May 10, 2005

I should'a went on, when my friend come from Mexico at me
I should'a went on, when my friend come from Mexico at me
I was foolin' with ya baby, I let ya put me on the laughin' floor
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:30 AM on May 10, 2005

Shit, now I'm part of the problem. I hate when that happens.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 2:31 AM on May 10, 2005

We're all part of the problem, stav, and there is no solution.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:15 AM on May 10, 2005

As usual, Ethereal, you're wrong.
posted by Ryvar at 3:46 AM on May 10, 2005

my ~~GOD~~ ~~GODDESS~~ GOODNESS Ryvar, that should be on the front page! What's it doing here?!
posted by exlotuseater at 4:15 AM on May 10, 2005

EB: *rolfing on the laughing floor*
Rolfing?
posted by peacay at 4:20 AM on May 10, 2005

Nothing like a good Rolfing to fix you up.
posted by exlotuseater at 4:44 AM on May 10, 2005

"What's it doing here?!"

Because it's so much more appropriate for MeTa?

At any rate, here's something to consider: the murder of strangers is almost risk-free for the thrillseeker. And, honestly, for all the talk of "community", we're truly no more than strangers to each other here on Metafilter.

When devils will the blackest sins put on,
They do suggest at first with heavenly shows...

There is no virtue in mefiville but seeming—seeming: mostly in deletion, or piety, or dull wit, or obscurantism. Steven Den Beste Slept Here. See, even then there were lice. Mission accomplished, bring it on, where is Miguel?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 5:04 AM on May 10, 2005

erhard seminars training

werner is gawd!
posted by quonsar at 5:07 AM on May 10, 2005

What is this thread even about anymore?

Hi konolia and Hi EB
posted by sciurus at 5:18 AM on May 10, 2005

EB: the murder of strangers is almost risk-free
posted by peacay at 5:31 AM on May 10, 2005

Mr Haughey, you used to be a sysop/admin. It seems like you've become more of a moderator. Most of the folks commenting here didn't read the thread in question before it was deleted, or they would have seen an interesting conversation in which my paranoia about #mefi was alleviated.

There is no way for me to use #mefi, so I didn't know anything about it. I couldn't find anything on the wiki specifically addressing my concerns, that things having to do with MeFi/MeTa were discussed and decided there, and that there was possible user information sharing/speculation going on there as well. It turns out there wasn't, and I learned such in a civil and engaging conversation with a few #mefi denizens.

I understand that you don't have much time for the site, and that you have your hands full with the most wonderful thing you've ever held. I apologize for the prickliness of my FPP here. I posted without taking a breath.

Reading over this thread, I would posit that it is much more deserving of the drop than the one you axed, and that the derails here are not constructive or interesting.

But if you don't have enough time to read the threads, could you just hold off on the kill-switch until you do? Even closing threads to new comments is preferable to deleting them wholesale.

And this is coming from the guy who aired his wrong assumptions and stood corrected. That learning process was important for me, and my errors stood as an example to all.

Thanks for the time you spare to put into this site, and congratulations again. I'm sorry to have hassled you when you were busy smiling back at your baby. She's beautiful.
posted by breezeway at 6:24 AM on May 10, 2005

Oh man. These threads...

It wasn't appropriate! Yes it was! Everybody knows it! No they don't! It was badly formatted! Newsfilter! Offensive! It added nothing to the thread! Double post! Self link! My mommy hated it!

Bunch of bloody old biddies, some of you, honestly. Jesus, these threads stay active for what - 2, 3 days, typically?

Let it GO. Life: get one.

OK, please delete this post. I know nobody likes snarks against the Mighty Mefi Methodology. I just can't help myself. Verstegan? Please now launch a random personal attack, preferably referring to something I said weeks ago in an entirely different context. That way I can call you out at MetaTalk and maybe even go whining to mathowie about it. Ooh, fun. Why, I do believe a degree of tumescence is occurring within my underkeks.
posted by Decani at 6:24 AM on May 10, 2005

This is IRC.
You may not believe it possible, but this is way more pointless than IRC
posted by dg at 6:33 AM on May 10, 2005

What is this thread even about anymore?

Heh. Don't you get it? Matt is allowing this one to drone on into the perfect object lesson for why crap threads like this should be stopped and/or deleted. Well played!
posted by soyjoy at 7:11 AM on May 10, 2005

Please now launch a random personal attack

Are those shoes you're wearing, or have you been walking through cow dung again? And that shirt: what were you thinking?
posted by anapestic at 7:26 AM on May 10, 2005

Hooray! breezeway's a goody again!

This is better than pro-wrestling. Who's up next?

"Mission accomplished, bring it on, where is Miguel?"
Ah, Bligh vs. Cardoso.
Masks always bring a little extra something to the ring, don't they?
posted by NinjaPirate at 7:32 AM on May 10, 2005

Can't you see that threads like this one (or, an even better example, that one) are better than reality TV? Way better. Like a text version of reality TV. Real wit, levels of fun. Nothing in mainstream media comes close. Threads like this are unbeatable. Perhaps this is what the net does best and Metafilter does it best of all. There aren't many places where pile-ons like this often turn out can't-stop-reading-ly funny.
posted by Termite at 7:58 AM on May 10, 2005

nixerman writes "Do you realize that God kills a toddler when people make whiny, combative posts to the gray? Think of the children."

Game. Set. Gasoline. Matches.

breezeway, I'm glad you came back to the thread, but if you took yourself and your desires a bit less seriously none of this would have happened.
posted by OmieWise at 10:19 AM on May 10, 2005

*waves at everyone, then starts looking for Miguel*
posted by konolia at 10:34 AM on May 10, 2005

I know, OmieWise, and that's why I returned to post after sleeping on it. It's more than a little distressing, though, to have the sysop pull the rug out from under my feet just as I get a sense of closure.

I've never had much luck getting a straight answer from Mr Haughey, even in the rare instance of private emailing over my novice overuse of img tags. I guess it's just a matter of tone. I take all insults personally, because insults are personal.

I do my best to avoid them (sometimes I don't, and yes, that makes me a hypocrite), as they lower the level of discourse and make otherwise intelligent folks sound stupid. I realized my tone on the FP was insulting, though I only meant it to be severely critical.

But when the admin constantly uses words like "pointless," "useless," and "stupid," and denigrates the whole site, I wonder what he's thinking.

Nothing hurts more than having doors slammed in your face. Nothing stings as badly as shutups. And nothing better destroys my faith in just administration and my love of the site than an itchy censor finger.

Maybe I am taking myself too seriously. I like to think I'm taking the site too seriously. I joined because there was nowhere else with a level of discourse like there was here. Now, there is nowhere with that level of discourse.

I hoped to learn how things worked, so I could learn where folks stood on these issues. Maybe I hoped too much. I find it frustrating because I like it here, and I want to help. I don't know if Mr Haughey believes me, but it's kind of like when people criticise the government because they love their country.

I always come off more strident than I mean to, and I'm sure this post is no different. I wonder if others come off as more insulting than they mean to. I grant that I might just be touchy.

I change my mind a lot. I also try to pause, try to sleep on things that upset me, and try to help when I can. Right now, even though this post is all over the place, I'm trying to do the latter.
posted by breezeway at 11:49 AM on May 10, 2005

*wearily begins to crank up the migs signal machine*
posted by sgt.serenity at 11:54 AM on May 10, 2005

Metafilter: if you took yourself and your desires a bit less seriously none of this would have happened.
posted by Ryvar at 12:02 PM on May 10, 2005

Maybe I am taking myself too seriously. I like to think I'm taking the site too seriously.

Those two things are in no way mutually exclusive, and neither of them is good. The idea that the site has changed drastically in the three months since you signed up makes no sense to me. I think it's more likely that you've lost perspective. I can see from what you've written that you feel genuinely hurt by things that have happened here, but does it not occur to you that feeling personally injured by a few deletions on a web site indicates misguided priorities?
posted by anapestic at 12:29 PM on May 10, 2005

'
posted by sciurus at 12:31 PM on May 10, 2005

I've never had much luck getting a straight answer from Mr Haughey, even in the rare instance of private emailing...

Friend, it is just a website. We are just posting shit on a website. When tempted to email #1, just go do a load of laundry or walk the dog instead.
posted by LarryC at 12:42 PM on May 10, 2005

Good point, anapestic. And Larry, on preview. Thanks for the tip.

I don't have a dog. I don't have any clothes, either. I've always wanted to try Fiji, though. See you when I get back.
posted by breezeway at 12:47 PM on May 10, 2005

Breezeway, if it makes you feel better, as a longtime lurker (4 years? Something like that), it's hard to see MeFi as having gone through many really big changes since you joined. My guess is just that things that you didn't notice before joining, you notice more now. The only really big changes I've seen were the political divisiveness that started nearish 9/11, and was sharply curbed (but not eliminated) when Matt started cracking down on Polifilter after the second election. The other change (which I might have only noticed because I was a member by that point) was when Jessamyn was editing (though 95% of the complaints directed at her were for things she wasn't even involved in).

Take a step back, and remember that Matt seldom, if ever, deletes sound discussion on sound topics in the blue, and that (the blue) is really what MeFi should be about. Think of the grey as being a useful but evanescent side course.
posted by bugbread at 1:01 PM on May 10, 2005

I don't have a dog.

Um, I think "walk the dog" is a euphemism.
posted by anapestic at 1:32 PM on May 10, 2005

Man, I've been walking the dog to pictures of from this thread all day.
posted by casu marzu at 2:30 PM on May 10, 2005

Jesus, breezeway, give Matt a fuckin' break. You can't really blame him for deleting that thread. Most likely, he looked at the post (which was Witty bitching about something Matt had already answered to) and thought it was worthless.

Me, I say the best thing to happen to this site in a while was the outage last week, which quelled a riot or two on MeTa. Sadly, no outage this week to stop the spree. But at least konolia's back.

Hi konolia!
posted by graventy at 4:28 PM on May 10, 2005

Dammit, graventy, Matt did something without taking the personal feelings of a fervent poster in mind. We're talking about a totally repeatable discussion about something at best ancillary to the site, based on a derail from what was already a overzealous and whinge-filled meta-MeTa callout. If that doesn't merit preservation, well, mister, I'd just like to know what does.

Really. Totally unreasonable.

I've deleted like sixteen comments on preview in the last couple days and this is pretty solid by comparison to the rest, which is what I tell myself to feel better about nonetheless lapsing and joining the fray. You fuckers are really whiny lately.
posted by cortex at 4:37 PM on May 10, 2005

I'm guessing that right now would not be a good time to post an image...
posted by deborah at 6:12 PM on May 10, 2005

posted by yhbc at 6:47 PM on May 10, 2005

*flicks the lights on and off to remind people that it's time to go home*
posted by dg at 8:00 PM on May 10, 2005

we have lights? Why wasn't I told?
posted by jonmc at 8:08 PM on May 10, 2005

"You don't have to go home, but you can't stay here."
posted by exlotuseater at 8:53 PM on May 10, 2005

*removes the scales from jonmc's eyes*
posted by dg at 9:31 PM on May 10, 2005

I had lurked for a fair number of years before joining (sometime in 2001/early 2002), and I have noticed a change. Metatalk threads, no matter how horrible, off-topic or trainwrecky, were not deleted. I know - I used to read some of the famous old ones for fun. A little while ago, metatalk threads were flying off the page (and it was not jessamyn's editting, it was a change in editting policy from mathowie that occurred at a similar time).

It started with no nonsense in Ask Metafilter, which most people agreed with - that service was created with a specific purpose. But when it became deleting comments and whole threads from metatalk, the place that existed solely to discuss metafilter, and the threads in question were discussing metafilter, that was just damned annoying. I'd read comments that made no sense, people would refer to threads that no longer existed.

The collective memory - the record not just of posts, but of personalities, because it's in Metatalk that personalities most come alive - that was so fascinating to read back through in 2002 was excised. It's like ripping pages out of a book. I don't like it when people do that either. Maybe it's not a very good book. Maybe it's a juvenile, profane, often nasty and occassionally dirty one, but I was reading it.
posted by jb at 10:01 PM on May 10, 2005

first they came for the metatalk threads ......
posted by sgt.serenity at 3:42 AM on May 11, 2005

jb nails it. you'd think mathowie would grasp the idea and stop deleting stuff. but basically all he ever responds with is his judgement that something is "useless" or "jokey" or "pointless". as has been pointed out repeatedly, he is not blessed with infallible judgement in such matters.

what most irks me is that the entire issue could have been addressed neatly long ago, as it was in the blue, with some minor code changes and a schema tweak allowing 'objectionable' material to be removed from prominence without forever disappearing like inconvenient utterances from a bush administration speech transcript, but no.
posted by quonsar at 5:41 AM on May 11, 2005

What jb and quonsar said. But there doesn't seem to be any point complaining; Matt just doesn't grasp that deleting threads he thinks have no value is doing serious harm to the site. It will eventually leave only those who cheerfully accept whatever Matt allows them to have because "it's his site!" and congratulate each other on the fact that the "whiners" are gone. I don't understand what harm he thinks can come from letting people babble on until they get tired of making lame jokes or the thread disappears into the recesses of the archives; if he doesn't like it, he can, just like the rest of us, avert his eyes and click on something else. (Since he apparently enforces the one-AskMe-per-week limit on himself, that approach is not unthinkable.) But no, he gets irritated and says "off with its head!" and then wonders why people whine about it.

And yes, it is his site. But you'd think he'd want it to reflect more than his own preconceptions and prejudices.
posted by languagehat at 7:01 AM on May 11, 2005

But no, he gets irritated and says "off with its head!" and then wonders why people whine about it.

Right. A decapitation has occurred. Or Matt is the Queen of Hearts. I don't think he wonders why people whine about it: they whine about it because they're petulant people with no lives and less perspective.

The harm that comes from babbling is that non-whiners leave the site. Lots of them. I can't see the value in setting policy so that the whiners are made happy and the non-babblers are encouraged to leave.
posted by anapestic at 7:29 AM on May 11, 2005

"It will eventually leave only those who cheerfully accept whatever Matt allows them to have because 'it's his site!' and congratulate each other on the fact that the 'whiners' are gone."

Point taken. But in my defense, I'd say that my annoyance about this is cumulative. Both in that some people take these deletions here as if they were a crime against nature, a terrible injustice; but also because of the general tendency in American culture to get extraordinarily proprietary about quasi-public spaces and to cry "censorship!" at the slightest opportunity.

Matt's deleting hand is not heavy. It's just not. It's extraordinarily light. And Metafilter isn't a coop.

On Preview: "I can't see the value in setting policy so that the whiners are made happy and the non-babblers are encouraged to leave." Great point. I dunno—this all reminds of me of the insufferable whiners in the workplace. "I'm so oppressed because I'm not allowed to have a red stapler!" I loved Office Space, but I hated it too. Those guys needed a reality check.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 7:33 AM on May 11, 2005

Ethereal Bligh, are you really "marble"?
posted by dios at 7:55 AM on May 11, 2005

NO! I am marble, dammit. I bear no resemblance to EB. Well okay we are both carbon-based lifeforms. I think.
posted by beth at 7:58 AM on May 11, 2005

p.s. I have my own red stapler. Really. I use it at work. And nobody fucks with it. It's even got my name on it. I bought it myself.

And still, metatalk is pure genius. People work themselves into a tizzy and get it out of their system, all without bothering matt directly. Really I don't think matt realized what an amazing thing he was creating when he did it.
posted by beth at 8:10 AM on May 11, 2005

I don't know why beth is pretending to be me. If I recall correctly, when she's on #mefi her handle is "Dreama".
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:22 AM on May 11, 2005

Now you got me confused.
Which of you is the one that nurses felines?
posted by dios at 8:30 AM on May 11, 2005

Well okay we are both carbon-based lifeforms. I think.

If you're not sure, you can do a burn test on some of your hair.
posted by anapestic at 9:51 AM on May 11, 2005

Har dee har har. EB is being a dick towards me, what else is new.

Handy test to see who is EB and who is beth (aka marble).

EB is:
Balding
A blowhard
Likes to talk all the time about his St. John's education and how amazingly wonderful and enlightening it was
Crippled (though he also likes to talk about how he had lots of money in the dotcom era and gave tons to family and friends and for some reason didn't think ahead to planning for his joint replacement surgeries that he needs)
self-important
obnoxious

Beth is:
able-bodied (but overweight let's admit it right away)
intermittent with her metafilter postage
a college drop-out
mentally ill but on medication that works well thanks
a mother
an owner of a cat who likes certain things which are no longer allowed AT ALL okay people
someone who works for a living
able to be self-deprecating

Come to #mefi and see how unlike EB marble is. Really. And Dreama doesn't even hang out there anymore.
posted by beth at 10:10 AM on May 11, 2005

We've clearly left the realm of normal people.
posted by Mid at 10:47 AM on May 11, 2005

I don't know why beth is pretending to be me. If I recall correctly, when she's on #mefi her handle is "Dreama".

eeb, that is the first thing you have ever said that i LOLed at. now i'm disgusted with myself.
posted by quonsar at 10:57 AM on May 11, 2005

q - does it make you feel dirty?
posted by raedyn at 11:01 AM on May 11, 2005

Metafilter: You now leave the realm of normal people.
posted by Termite at 12:29 PM on May 11, 2005

If you are not part of the solution, then you are a precipitate.
posted by schyler523 at 1:34 PM on May 11, 2005

this is a much nicer thread than the one upstairs , theyre doing bad things up there.
posted by sgt.serenity at 1:58 PM on May 11, 2005

I guess I'll post in this thread one more time.
posted by moift at 3:10 PM on May 11, 2005

yeah, me too.
posted by quonsar at 3:12 PM on May 11, 2005

ya know, q, everyone in a while I wander back onto your user page, and wish I hadn't. The picture of "you" lurking on #mefi is scary enough that it'll probably keep me off the channel until I can shake the image from my mind. Talking to you in real time with that image in my head *shudders*

And yes, I can imagine the horrors this comment may open myself up to. However I'm tough. I can take it.

I think. *GULP*
posted by raedyn at 3:53 PM on May 11, 2005

May 9, 2005 1:40 PM Subscribe

May 9, 2005
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