I thought AskMe questions about politics were taboo?

July 18, 2005 9:45 AM

I really don't want to be a spoilsport, but I was under the impression that Ask MeFi questions relating to politics/current events were taboo (it says so in the MeFi wiki).

How, then, has this post been allowed to remain?
posted by elisabeth r to Etiquette/Policy at 9:45 AM (53 comments total)

I think his question can be answered directly without politics getting involved. Unfortunately, that won't happen. In the few comments there, we already see partisan hand-wringing and argumentation.

The question is essentially a question on plea-bargaining. But, it looks like people will use as another opportunity to grind their axe. One wonders how long until ericb shows up in that thread to cut and paste every partisan thing written on the net on the topic, as he has done in all the other threads on the topic.
posted by dios at 9:51 AM on July 18, 2005

But, it looks like people will use as another opportunity to grind their axe.

Axe-grinding like this? One wonders how long until ericb shows up in that thread to cut and paste every partisan thing written on the net on the topic, as he has done in all the other threads on the topic.
posted by leftcoastbob at 10:13 AM on July 18, 2005

How, then, has this post been allowed to remain?

Last I checked, not a single person had flagged it and it seems pretty specific. I just don't see the argumentation, dios. People seem to be reporting either facts about how the thing has unfolded or how they think the spin is working. If people get off-topic or argumentative, their comments will go away.
posted by jessamyn at 10:23 AM on July 18, 2005

It's more about squealing than plea-bargaining. He named names when he testified, and Miller didn't. Cooper did too, but only after receiving a waiver from his sources (Rove and Libby).

and what leftcoast said.
posted by amberglow at 10:23 AM on July 18, 2005

How, then, has this post been allowed to remain?

it doesn't make the admin look bad.
posted by quonsar at 10:26 AM on July 18, 2005

One wonders how long until ericb shows up in that thread

This, in my opinion, is what is killing metafilter: people making comments directed at other personalities instead of the post topic or issues surrounding it. Worse than that is posting about someone else and making some crack about how you expect them to act, in hopes they rise to the predictable bait.

I've told you dios to cut it out a million times over email and I know a lot of people do it to you "gee, I wonder what dios will say about x...", but seriously, please don't contribute to the worsening of metafilter by engaging in it.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:28 AM on July 18, 2005 [1 favorite]

how they think the spin is working. If people get off-topic or argumentative, their comments will go away.
posted by jessamyn at 10:23 AM PST on July 18

Those comments are off-topic. The question seems to be a straight forward question on plea-bargaining and immunity. Discussion of political spin and the rest is off-topic and argumentative.

(leftcoast, that's supposed to be axe-grinding? Wouldn't one have to make a point repetitively to be considered axe grinding? I think, by definition, one would. So your point is a really weak tu quoque. Of course, that wouldn't stop amberglow to try to pile on me.)
posted by dios at 10:28 AM on July 18, 2005

Fair enough, matt. My apologies to ericb for the petty snark.
posted by dios at 10:30 AM on July 18, 2005

it doesn't make the admin look bad.

quonsar, that post was graffitti, and the hole has been shut. There's no reason to keep it around.

I know fuck all about programming and I've never tried to claim otherwise.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:30 AM on July 18, 2005

no reason to expunge it either. you closed the previous one.
posted by quonsar at 10:34 AM on July 18, 2005

No one was posting as me with all sorts of text in the previous one. That tends to confuse people if the sole admin voice is written by others.

If you want, I'll go back and expunge all the fake quonsar posts. I locked the account as soon as I discovered it.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 10:40 AM on July 18, 2005

"it says so in the MeFi wiki"

The wiki is now official?! tsk tsk
posted by mischief at 10:42 AM on July 18, 2005

quonsar, the ankle biter.
posted by crunchland at 10:45 AM on July 18, 2005

I know fuck all about programming and I've never tried to claim otherwise.

Just wanted to say something in your defense: you had that hole closed within five minutes of my messaging you about it. It wasn't a tough one, but still - a live implementation that quickly is something to be proud of, regardless of how you dub yourself.

And again, my apologies - I should've handled this one privately after the AskMe test post.
posted by Ryvar at 10:45 AM on July 18, 2005

q, why would anyone want that left up? It's just incitement for every wannabe l33t nitwit who wanders along to bang on an already stressed server.
posted by cedar at 10:49 AM on July 18, 2005

I'm glad the hole was closed, but I agree with quonsar that there was no need to delete the thread, and I thank him for saving a copy and linking to it. It was quite educational as well as funny.
posted by languagehat at 10:52 AM on July 18, 2005

darukaru: demand the swift hammer of justice when it's their neck and reputation on the sockpuppet chopping block.

quonsar: if you were referring to moi, you might take care to note that a straightforward announcement that something has occurred (as in "eponymous blargh registered himself a sock puppet using html entities which looks exactly like my username. thank you.") is in no way, shape or form a "demand" for the "swift hammer" of "justice". but then, as a dick, you could hardly be expected to have distinguished that which you think from that which occurs.

mathowie: No one was posting as me with all sorts of text in the previous one. That tends to confuse people if the sole admin voice is written by others.

If you want, I'll go back and expunge all the fake quonsar posts. I locked the account as soon as I discovered it.

That seems to be a bit of a double standard. It also appears to be a bit disingenuous because quonsar seems to have expressed his opinion already.

Now if cedar's point is to be taken seriously (I'm not convinced yet) then the quonsar stuff should be removed anyway - to protect the server.
posted by Chuckles at 10:54 AM on July 18, 2005

I've told you dios to cut it out a million times over email and I know a lot of people do it to you "gee, I wonder what dios will say about x...", but seriously, please don't contribute to the worsening of metafilter by engaging in it.

What's with the kid-glove treatment? You tell him something a million times, and he still persists? And that's it? There are people in this very thread who get far worse treatment for far less.
posted by amberglow at 10:55 AM on July 18, 2005

"Fair enough, matt. My apologies to ericb for the petty snark."

And what about the subsequent snark at amberglow's expense? ...

"Of course, that wouldn't stop amberglow to try to pile on me."

A thread that had nothing to do with either ericb or amberglow and dios attacks them for no reason at all. Amazing.
posted by terrapin at 10:57 AM on July 18, 2005

yu7yut67h6ty78900-p-0p-=-
posted by jonmc at 10:58 AM on July 18, 2005

That was me banging my head against the keyboard in frustration.
posted by jonmc at 10:58 AM on July 18, 2005

cedar I have to question the wisdom of that attitude. Most bugs can, with time and research, be further exploited until they become seriously damaging. I think it's better to let some idiot who stumbles upon some minor input sanitization error to have his couple hours of "LOLOLOL HEY LOOK GUYS I'M MATT!! ROFLAMO *honk* *bonk* *duh*" rather than to discourage people from finding any bugs. Discouraging active bug finding by your userbase provides people of malicious intent who actually know what they're doing with a better environment in which to ply their trade.

That said, there should be a formal Metafilter policy about reporting these things first. In the real security community it's considered standard practice to allow a vendor to have a month between when you notify them of an exploit and when you publish it - and six months in the case of major exploits. Making well-considered decisions during the giddy euphoria that follows finding a loophole is difficult at best, but there's no reason that Metafilter shouldn't have an analogue to this practice.
posted by Ryvar at 10:59 AM on July 18, 2005

Ryvar, I agree with everything you say.

My only point was now that the bug has been squashed and those in the know have had their fun, I don't see anything to be gained by leaving the thread up. I had visions of people saying, "Oh cool ... let me try. Hey, that didn't work, maybe I did it wrong. Let's try this..."

Considering the state of the MeFi server it strikes me as a bad idea to leave something that might encourage 'experimentation' lieing around.
posted by cedar at 11:34 AM on July 18, 2005

there should be a formal Metafilter policy

There are no formal policies about anything here. If I ever grow to the point where I have formal policies on something, please shoot me.

It seems pretty simple to me. When I find a bug (esp. a security bug) on someone's service, I usually email them a description, and in some cases, an example of the problem and they fix it.

You went overboard Ryvar. Once you got to the "pay $5 to register this user" you could have emailed me. Once you made the test comment, you could have emailed me. I was disappointed to wake up this blazing hot morning to a baby that shit through her diaper that I had to clean up, and when I turned the corner and fired up MetaTalk I had a similar mess on my hands.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:35 AM on July 18, 2005

A thread that had nothing to do with either ericb or amberglow and dios attacks them for no reason at all. Amazing.

It's not the first time. I suspect it won't be the last.
posted by Rothko at 11:42 AM on July 18, 2005

"I was disappointed to wake up this blazing hot morning to a baby that shit through her diaper that I had to clean up"

Had the J-runs, did she?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 11:55 AM on July 18, 2005

I was disappointed to wake up this blazing hot morning to a baby that shit through her diaper that I had to clean up, and when I turned the corner and fired up MetaTalk I had a similar mess on my hands.

Look on the bright side: unlike MetaFilter, Fiona will mature as time passes.
posted by timeistight at 11:55 AM on July 18, 2005

MetaFilter: The baby that shit through her diaper.
posted by Floydd at 11:58 AM on July 18, 2005

This MetaTalk post, willingly or unwillingly buys into the Republican 'frame' that any discussion of the Plame matter is political. If you remove that frame from your mind, its just a news story and the person had a question about a confusing piece of it.
posted by brucec at 12:03 PM on July 18, 2005

matt:
I agree, I did go overboard.

cedar:
Just as a sort of tertiary note here, the state of the server really doesn't play into it, as the current troubles appear - at first glance anyway - to be load-based. The only time that would be a factor is during a Denial of Service attack, which is a big no-no for greyhats. There's a difference between attempting to pick a lock, and kicking in the door.
posted by Ryvar at 12:05 PM on July 18, 2005

wanna bet that even if that starts happening every day he'll still stick to the same diaper brand?
posted by quonsar at 12:07 PM on July 18, 2005

"unlike MetaFilter, Fiona will mature as time passes"

As a parent, all I can say to that is, "Heheh!" ;-P
posted by mischief at 12:12 PM on July 18, 2005

the current troubles appear - at first glance anyway - to be load-based

You talking about the server or the diaper?
posted by languagehat at 12:32 PM on July 18, 2005

Thanks for the responses. I didn't realize the wiki was that unofficial, nor did I realize that the best way to call attention to a perhaps-inappropriate Ask MeFi question was to flag it, rather than addressing it here.

Special props to dios et al for derailing the topic completely and thus not drawing attention to the fact that I am somewhat of a newbie and don't really know how things work.
posted by elisabeth r at 12:46 PM on July 18, 2005

I am somewhat of a newbie and don't really know how things work.

That's OK, matt will get you a fresh diaper. *flings poo*
posted by If I Had An Anus at 1:03 PM on July 18, 2005

sorry elisabeth. In case you missed it, jessamyn posted a nice thread about MetaFilter mentoring. I didn't chime in there, but add me to the list of people folks can contact if they have a question they want answered, but don't want to have turned into a pissing match in the Meta.
posted by terrapin at 1:24 PM on July 18, 2005

*mind assplodes trying to figure out where IIHAA got poo to fling*
posted by terrapin at 1:24 PM on July 18, 2005

How many times do I have to try to tell you
That I'm sorry for the things I've done
But when I start to try to tell you
That's when you have to tell me
Hey...this kind of trouble's only just begun
I tell myself too many times
Why don't you ever learn to keep your big mouth shut
That's why it hurts so bad to hear the words
That keep on falling from your mouth
Falling from your mouth
Falling from your mouth
Tell me...
Why
Why
I may be mad
I may be blind
I may be viciously unkind
But I can still read what you're thinking
And I've heard it said too many times
That you'd be better off
Besides...
Why can't you see this boat is sinking
(This boat is sinking this boat is sinking)
Let's go down to the water's edge
And we can cast away those doubts
Some things are better left unsaid
But they still turn me inside out
Turning inside out turning inside out
Tell me...
Why
Tell me...
Why
This is the book I never read
These are the words I never said
This is the path I'll never tread
These are the dreams I'll dream instead
This is the joy that's seldom spread
These are the tears...
The tears we shed
This is the fear
This is the dread
These are the contents of my head
And these are the years that we have spent
And this is what they represent
And this is how I feel
Do you know how I feel?
'Cause I don't think you know how I feel
I don't think you know what I feel
I don't think you know what I feel
You don't know what I feel
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 1:28 PM on July 18, 2005

*cleans fingerprints off terrapin's toilet seat*
posted by If I Had An Anus at 1:30 PM on July 18, 2005

*regrets his grossness*
posted by If I Had An Anus at 1:31 PM on July 18, 2005

wanna bet that even if that starts happening every day he'll still stick to the same diaper brand?

quonsar, please, please stop being such an ass to Mathowie about this. You're just making yourself look like a whiny jerk. We all know you think he should somehow find the time to recode this entire site. Perhaps you have limitless time on your hands to do such things, but I'm pretty sure he does not -- partly because he has to spend so much time cleaning up after other, bigger messes.

Just leave it alone. Its getting old and stale and is clearly noise, not signal.
posted by anastasiav at 3:19 PM on July 18, 2005

The question was an actual, useful question and it was not phrased with a partisan slant. What more do you want?

Anyone interested in an overview of what happened, what is happening, and what probably happened in the Plame Affair, please read my comment in that thread. I'm banging my own drum, and this is prideful of me, but my analysis of this from 18 months ago is proving to be correct, and I've watched this story very closely.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:58 PM on July 18, 2005

oy. two asses and lots of shit.
posted by crunchland at 4:15 PM on July 18, 2005

languagehat writes "I agree with quonsar that there was no need to delete the thread, and I thank him for saving a copy and linking to it. It was quite educational as well as funny."

Well I'm not sad to see it go if only because it made me look like an idiot :).

Back on topic, questions about politics should be allowed if only because the US system is so byzantine for someone who is used to a parliamentary system. I even put one out a while ago and got some very clear analysis and information.

PS: Matt there's a problem on my question with the side bar pushing the comments down.
posted by Mitheral at 4:59 PM on July 18, 2005

Everyone seems to have forgotten about dios. Well, dios, if you are reading, please stick to the facts and arguments, and avoid the attacks, especially the personal ones. We don't have that many folks here who can argue well for the right. The left is quite well represented, but some of us really want to expand our horizons by hearing both sides of an argument. When you attack or avoid an issue, especially with aggression it really doesn't advance things, although there are plenty here spoiling for a fight. My first impression of you was quite negative as you seemed to start out looking to throw incendiary bombs at liberals. However, you have proven yourself a worthy advocate at times. Concentrate on that, without the holy hand grenades and you might find some intellectual stimulation here. We will challenge your ideology, but listen as well. If there is one thing about MeFi, it is an ability to listen to and absorb many points of view, especially opposing ones. No doubt a few assholes will spew, but I think you will find some intelligent opposition. That benefits both you and us.
posted by caddis at 6:29 PM on July 18, 2005

Note also that the poster is celebrity Mythbuster, Adam Savage. Celebrities have special rights in America! (I love the Savage. I keed, I keed.)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:59 PM on July 18, 2005

Well said caddis.
posted by peacay at 4:30 AM on July 19, 2005

This one also sucks.
posted by smackfu at 6:37 AM on July 19, 2005

I took that one down. It said:

There is reason to suspect that Kenneth Blackwell, Ohio's Secretary of State and current Republican gubernatorial candidate, broke laws during the 2004 election, resulting in the disenfranchisement of voters. Will he ever be successfully prosecuted for it?

It would be a fine MeFi post, but it's too CrystalBallFilter for AskMe.
posted by jessamyn at 6:58 AM on July 19, 2005

So which wiki page misled elisabeth r? Does it need some tweaking? (The wiki is somewhat official isn't it? It's linked on the MeTa frontdoor after all.) Volunteers?

*takes one step back*
posted by If I Had An Anus at 7:23 AM on July 19, 2005

Metafilter: it's too CrystalBallFilter for AskMe.
posted by amberglow at 9:33 AM on July 19, 2005

Frankly, Jess, I think its too CrystalBallFilter even for the front page, but maybe that's just me.
posted by anastasiav at 11:43 AM on July 19, 2005

yeah change that to "it could be turned into a good FPP" instead, you're right anastaiav.
posted by jessamyn at 11:55 AM on July 19, 2005