July 26, 2005

5:03 PM

It feels like AskMe questions come in Straight Dope and Dear Abby sorts (among others), with a lot more recently that can only be answered by personal anecdote. Evidently the community wants them (I read and appreciate them). Might splitting them off into a new color help keep AskMe from drowning in its success?
a problem discussed here
posted by Aknaton to feature requests at 5:03 PM (43 comments total)

I am not a terribly heavy AskMe user, but even I know that a DearMe would be an absolute godsend at this point.
posted by Ryvar at 5:27 PM on July 26, 2005

I don't understand what the problem you're describing is exactly, as it seems a question of taste.

How about this -- show me three links to straight dope/dear abby questions, and three links to "good" ask mefi material.
posted by mathowie at 5:32 PM on July 26, 2005

Matt, I think Aknaton is drawing the distinction between SD/DA questions and the chatty ones -- the latter are the ones looking for a new home, not the former.
posted by gleuschk at 5:37 PM on July 26, 2005

Sorry I was unclear. I meant Straight Dope as to be distinguished from Dear Abby (more chatty). Some examples from the current front page.

These look like ones that could have a Best Answer:

What is a good setup for recording conversations in person?
I have haemorrhoids. Do I need to do anything about them?
What sort of protection do you use when you use p2p programs?
Does anyone remember the Commodore PET? ...cave. Does anyone remember this game? Did someone ever re-do it for Palm or PocketPC?

These seem much more ChatFilterish (which, to my mind, isn't intrinsically a bad thing, just a rather different thing from the above):

I want to quit my job and go to school. [more inside]
What are the greatest rock instrumentals of all time? (i.e., not jazz, electronica, funk, etc.)
What do you want to be when you grow up? How are you working to be that person? [more inside]
Social class, mobility, relationships, life decisions: the big stuff.
Lying to your girlfriend's parents...yay or nay?
How do you make out?
FoodPornFilter: Help me make a sensual meal. (Mildy NSFW text inside, possible TMI)
I've been dating a wonderful guy ... but I'd like to hear what people's experience has been in other situations like this.

(I do like the name Dear MetaFilter. Well done, Ryvar.)

Basically, I was trying to figure out what could be done to pare down AskMe in order to save it from information overload. Given the frequent cries of "ChatFilter!" it seems like there might be a bunch of people who read AskMe less than they might (and hence answer knowledgeably less often, lessening the value of AskMe) because they're not interested in these sorts of questions.

That is, of course, supposition, and I wouldn't want to suggest a lot of work on something that might have little impact. But wouldn't even people who don't like this stuff enjoy being able to say "Take it to DearMe already"?
posted by Aknaton at 7:03 PM on July 26, 2005

Can the new Meta be pink? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease?
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 7:58 PM on July 26, 2005 [1 favorite]

Perhaps the questions that should move out are the one's with the easily-Googlable answers. tsk tsk
posted by mischief at 8:16 PM on July 26, 2005

No. Because then you would put pictures of little dogs on it & all would be lost!
posted by dame at 8:28 PM on July 26, 2005

Can the new Meta be pink? Pleeeeeeeeeeeeeease?

Excellent idea. It should also have a sort of metallic sheen about it.
posted by PinkStainlessTail at 8:35 PM on July 26, 2005

While we're talking about splitting content, another idea would be to split the front page into a "Best of the Web" and "NewsFilter". I'd vote for Best of the Web to retain the FP title, but I'd spend all my time on NewsFilter.
posted by forforf at 9:07 PM on July 26, 2005

When answering a question,posted by anonymous. I sometimes want the option of posting my answer anonymously as well.
Are there reasons this is a bad idea?
posted by hortense at 9:25 PM on July 26, 2005

DearMeFi sounds like a great idea to me.
posted by ori at 9:57 PM on July 26, 2005

hortense: "When answering a question,posted by anonymous. I sometimes want the option of posting my answer anonymously as well.
Are there reasons this is a bad idea?"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think mathowie has previously indicated that this is in the works.
posted by ori at 10:00 PM on July 26, 2005

On topic: a pink DearMe, tres chic
posted by hortense at 10:19 PM on July 26, 2005

Dear Pink MetaFilter,
Whatever happened to the cranberry red page?
Color me disconsolate.
posted by Cranberry at 10:36 PM on July 26, 2005

I'd say, keep AskMe as is, retaining its current wide scope. The more categories we have the more arguments about proper categorization.
posted by mono blanco at 11:26 PM on July 26, 2005

hortense: "When answering a question,posted by anonymous. I sometimes want the option of posting my answer anonymously as well.
Are there reasons this is a bad idea?"

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think mathowie has previously indicated that this is in the works.

Actually, he's said that it's not happening, as he hasn't figured out a way to keep it from being abused.
posted by Marquis at 1:26 AM on July 27, 2005

DearMe? I like it.

How about a section for weird stuff called
GoodnessGraciousMe?
posted by handee at 4:06 AM on July 27, 2005

I don't understand what the problem you're describing is exactly, as it seems a question of taste.

I think the problem is not just one of taste; it's that there are so many questions posted to AskMe that it's hard to keep up. If I don't check AskMe at least twice a day, lots of questions get pushed off the front page. Yes, I ignore almost all of the personal-problem posts. If those are what someone else likes, more power to them. I'd rather not have to wade through the questions about hemorrhoids and strange mucous discharges.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 4:24 AM on July 27, 2005

1. What is a good setup for recording conversations in person?
2. I have haemorrhoids. Do I need to do anything about them?
3. What sort of protection do you use when you use p2p programs?
4. Does anyone remember the Commodore PET? ...cave. Does anyone remember this game? Did someone ever re-do it for Palm or PocketPC?

Only question #4 has is a definite-answer quetion. Some people seem to think that technological questions breed unambiguous answers, but that's not (necessarily) true. We all know that "which is better, Macs or PCs" is a bad question, but questions #1 - #3 are similar to that. Question #2 is medical. People might have differing ideas about what to do re: hemeroids. I asked a question recently about microphones and got so many (totally different) answers that I wasn't sure what to do.

I think it IS mostly a matter of taste. Some people prefer questions about physical objects to questions about mental/emotional life. But that doesn't mean one is more likely to yield best answers than the other.
posted by grumblebee at 5:43 AM on July 27, 2005

I'd rather not have to wade through the questions about hemorrhoids and strange mucous discharges.


If you missed the one about nose hairs growing throughpeople's noses and popping out the other side, you definitely missed the best of the web that day. There are no words.
posted by CunningLinguist at 6:25 AM on July 27, 2005

No. Because then you would put pictures of little dogs on it & all would be lost!

{inside joke} And what would be wrong with that, hmmmm? Don't hate me because of my chihuahua- LITTLE DOGS RULE YAAAYAYAYAYAAAAY! {/inside joke}
posted by ThePinkSuperhero at 6:26 AM on July 27, 2005 [1 favorite]

I don't mean to insist that the "could/couldn't have a Best Answer" distinction is necessarily the most important one.

In order to keep AskMe a readable size, though, it seems like drawing distinctions may be useful in and of itself, particularly if they separate classes of answerers.

Obviously this needs discussion (i.e. MetaTalking through), since I regard "has anyone else had a nose hair come out the wrong side?" an AskMe question whereas I would see "What to do about my girlfriend's behavior?" shunted to DearMe. (And I would read it there.) Whereas Kirth Gerson mentally classes them together, showing that more discussion is necessary if consensus is to be reached.
posted by Aknaton at 6:44 AM on July 27, 2005

Why don't we just flag chatty questions and let the admins delete them? Problem solved.
posted by Rothko at 6:47 AM on July 27, 2005

Here's a somewhat tangential question. If you could keep track of threads that you'd commented in, like you can on the front page, would this affect your desire to split AskMe up? What if you could "hide" questions once and then never see them again? I could see this becoming a problem in its own right because people would argue for lousy AskMe questions staying because 95% of everyone could hide them, but for sheer usability, it seems that trying to maximize peoples' ability to get a good answer -- by not splitting perhaps, for maximum eyeballs, but at the same time not running off the main page too quick -- is the main priority, with "I don't want to see these types of questions at all" a secondary concern. Yes?

Or, if we were really dreaming, what about a ChatFilter/AskMe slider that everyone could set for questions and then set their view threshold appropriately based on the consensus rating of the question? This could have high and low end that were totally end-user detemined [show me nothing except what I pick/show me everything] and otherwise you could pick a place on a continuum [show me questions that AskMe users think areless than 50% ChatFilter].

The ChatFilter questions are definitely enjoyed by a subset of AskMe users and disliked by another group and as a result they're hard to delete. If the argument is that they take up space, maybe there's a way to solve the space problem without fracturing AskMe and without being heavier on the delete button?
posted by jessamyn at 6:59 AM on July 27, 2005

As far as I can tell, there is no logical distinction between types of questions which would warrant an entirely separate forum. I recognize and have commented on the fact that the number of questions on AskMe everyday is overwhelming. Nonetheless, what we need are better tools to locate and track questions in which we might be interested, not separate forums which divide up the content and make it harder, not easier, to follow. Tags and categories are a good start, but I'll say it again, we need user, thread, tag, and category feeds.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 7:05 AM on July 27, 2005

Tags and categories are a good start, but I'll say it again, we need user, thread, tag, and category feeds.

I've written a tool to manage threads with del.icio.us. With the addition of categories and tags to feeds, I've offered to add the ability to let users filter on that basis. With a longer feed, questions don't disappear, and the people who love chatfilter can keep adding chatty questions to AskMe. Count me in as interested in a more comprehensive feed.
posted by Rothko at 7:28 AM on July 27, 2005

Perhaps the questions that should move out are the one's with the easily-Googlable answers. tsk tsk

Seconded. I for one get really exasperated by questions about where to buy stuff, facrissake. I'd much rather read the chatty/personal problem questions than those.
posted by scratch at 7:40 AM on July 27, 2005

BTW, the actual Straight Dope forums have this distinction in their subforums:

General Questions - factual questions
In My Humble Opinion - for polling and questions that don't have a single factual answer

It works well enough and is pretty enforceable/testable, although entertainment questions were later pulled off into a separate forum as well because they were taking over.
posted by smackfu at 7:54 AM on July 27, 2005

I'd like some sort of addition to the site for those of us who wanna do cybersex with other users - a FuckMe, if you will. I'd also like some kind of feature that enables new comments to be posted at the top of a thread, and it occurs to me that Matt could just come over to my house and turn my monitor upside down - "UpMe" could be the name of such a valuable service. Furthermore, MeFi should tell me when to go clean my room and to stop hitting my sister with that - a "MoMe" would improve the site no end.
posted by the quidnunc kid at 8:52 AM on July 27, 2005

There should be a KiddingMe? for quidnunc threads.
posted by Rothko at 8:57 AM on July 27, 2005

"If you could keep track of threads that you'd commented in, like you can on the front page, would this affect your desire to split AskMe up? What if you could "hide" questions once and then never see them again?"

I wouldn't want to limit it to threads I'd commented in, but I'd love to be able to have a "hotlist" of threads I wanted to follow. I'd also LOVE to be able to "hide" questions, and in that case, I probably wouldn't need a hotlist.

I would not use RSS feeds for this purpose, although I use RSS for other stuff.
posted by caitlinb at 9:20 AM on July 27, 2005

How about being able to hide categories? Would that be easier? For example, I'm almost never interested in the technology questions. And lots of people seem opposed to the human relations or health queries. Maybe DearMe could be a category (chatfilter or polls or what have you) and easily hidden by the anti-chitchat forces.
posted by CunningLinguist at 9:32 AM on July 27, 2005

Man, a show/hide toggle would be darned interesting. Float a checkbox next to each question on the AskMe front page (index page? index? TOC?), have a user-set default (checked vs. not-checked) and a HIDE button to zap the checked questions off your personal display fer good.

And/or the same notion with a HOTLIST button to keep your hotlisted threads displayed at, say, the bottom of the normal index page after an HR or something.
posted by cortex at 9:59 AM on July 27, 2005

I wouldn't want to limit it to threads I'd commented in, but I'd love to be able to have a "hotlist" of threads I wanted to follow. I'd also LOVE to be able to "hide" questions, and in that case, I probably wouldn't need a hotlist.

I've been thinking about this too, and I think there should be additional options for the poster and the reader: readers should be able to keep track of threads more easily and also to know when a thread has been updated, especially if it's resolved to the posters' satisfaction.

Similarly, "best answer" is a kludge for most chatfilter questions, as there won't always be a best answer. (e.g. someone asking where to go to college/leave his wife/lie to his girlfriend's parents will have to make that choice at some point, regardless of whether anyone suggests what eventually happens, and regardless of whether any answers are provided at all.) Would it be helpful if posters could mark a thread "resolved" without marking any certain answer "best"?

Also, I notice there's another version of AskMe showing only posts with a marked "best answer." Is there a version showing only ones without a best answer?

Just some thoughts, and any or all of them might be on the wrong track.
posted by Tuwa at 10:24 AM on July 27, 2005

Gotta have BiteMe to drain off all the pet posts.
posted by weapons-grade pandemonium at 10:39 AM on July 27, 2005

As monju_bosatsu has taken the opportunity to pitch his long sought pony, I will chip in with mine - the ability to sort AskMe (and MeTa) by recent comments. I argue that this would in fact enable some quick and dirty chatfilter diagnosis, since those sorts of questions tend to have more and more frequent replies. Sort by comments, and scroll down to the questions that have less or none, but are still recent, and you are more likely to be looking at non-chat questions.

I should also say that I would prefer not to have AskMe divided - while the surfeit of questions can be daunting, the interweaving of diverse topics is part of AskMe's attractiveness.
posted by birdsquared at 11:05 AM on July 27, 2005

There are a millionMe's that could be made, really. Maybe there should be, I don't know but obviously matt dosn't want to expand the site without limit.

I think jessamyn's idea of hiding askme posts that bore someone is a really good idea. I personaly recomend just clicking on catagories that intrest you, sinc the AskMe page scrolls by so quickly.
posted by delmoi at 11:20 AM on July 27, 2005

I agree that being able to hide some questions would be great.
There are many questions (I'm thinking of the technical computer ones particularly) that I know I'm (a) not going to be able to contribute anything to (b) not going to care about an answer to, no matter how good.
But such questions do get answered, and may well have been appreciated by those who asked, answered, and lurked. May a thousand flowers bloom.

In all honesty, I too enjoy the free-for-all that is AskMe as it is, and don't really want to see the page split. I'm very happy to see other ideas, such as this hiding idea, that look very workable. One thing I liked and hope would return would be some of the really long threads, which will only happen if threads stick around longer than they do now.

(I hope Dear Metafilter makes it as an AskMe tag, though.)
posted by Aknaton at 12:01 PM on July 27, 2005

If you missed the one about nose hairs growing throughpeople's noses and popping out the other side, you definitely missed the best of the web that day. There are no words.

No, I didn't miss it; I avoided it. I did not want to know what it was about. Thanks for foiling my plan.

As I said, for those who enjoy that sort of thing, more power to you. I have witnessed and experienced far more gross and disgusting stuff than I ever wanted to, and don't need to add more of it to my life, even vicariously. So I don't read the questions about gooey/painful medical conditions, and I usually avoid the I've-screwed-up-my-life questions, too. On the rare occasions that I have not, the results have been less than salutary.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 1:22 PM on July 27, 2005

If we started splitting things up, I hope people realise that there would be an invasion on AskMe of the "uh, this totally doesn't belong here, it belongs [here]" "No! It's an opinion!" "It's not an opinion; it's individuals' statements of factual experience." "Opinion!" "No!"

The simpler the better, although modifications to the user experience (ie, filtering views) is obviously fine.
posted by Marquis at 5:39 PM on July 27, 2005

Marquis: for starters the flag system could be used, and secondly any such division would result in the same procedure as anything new around here - six months of angry MeTa debate threads eventually simmering down into a grudging group resolution.
posted by Ryvar at 6:37 PM on July 27, 2005

Another vote for pink, anywhere (how about "LoveMe" for all the relationship questions?). BiteMe would be cool too. But instead of the pet questions, all the self-appointed MeFi nannies could go there to dish about everyone else screwing up their community by daring to be less cool than they are, having un-hip tastes, being less than a genius with Google, or having too many (or the wrong) opinions, or wearing an ugly shirt. Then the questions wouldn't scroll by so fast on MeTa.
posted by realcountrymusic at 7:03 AM on July 28, 2005

I think the suggestion to allow us to hide questions that sport certain tags is a good compromise. It effectively allows users who wish to limit their exposure to do so without fracturing AskMe into some indeterminate number of sub-pages. Seems like a win-win for everyone.

A further tweak might involve required searches before allowing a post.

Oh, I love the idea of a "Dear MeF" category.
posted by oddman at 1:55 PM on August 1, 2005