In askmefi, I occasionally see some posts where the first question field ends with "of course ..." as if the rest of the sentence is cut off. In older posts, though, that phrase usually ends with "... there's more" as in "of course there's more." Is it because it's an askmefi cliche and that metafilter users are perpetuating it as a joke, or if it's because that particular sentence is automatically truncated by admins who deem it unnecessary because of the [more inside] denotation? posted by i8ny3x to Etiquette/Policy at 10:37 PM PST - 16 comments
Does anyone remember a Mefi comment that touches on the idea that today's "social conformity/peer pressure" has taken the place of yesteryear's freedom restricting laws? I think it was posted during the summer. posted by Clementines4ever to MetaFilter-Related at 1:26 PM PST - 6 comments
Reminder -- Peninsula meet-up tomorrow. (And organizer scrump probably can't post again so soon.) Prior thread: http://metatalk.metafilter.com/mefi/13165 posted by ClaudiaCenter to MetaFilter Gatherings at 8:26 AM PST - 8 comments
SemanticsFilter: When you're viewing the posts and comments that a specific users has marked as a favourite (i.e. the favourites of) it says, for instance, "Favorite posts from blacklite". It took me a couple of minutes to figure out whether these were the posts by or of that person. [mi] posted by blacklite to Bugs at 1:53 PM PST - 20 comments
Hey, can we have the spelling "judgement" added to the spell checker? Cripes, of all the words we'd ever need on MeFi.
Okay, I know that this qualifies as a "small, specific, and/or immediate problem" but it seemed like a cosmically (comically?) significant (or at least very mildly interesting) omission to me. posted by XMLicious to Feature Requests at 9:54 AM PST - 156 comments
I get very annoyed when people post anonymously on ask.mefi and then the answers ask follow up questions which compel the poster to revise their question, but they can't post because they would no longer be anonymous. Is this just me? Could there be a warning after the question saying the poster can no longer post on this thread? or maybe there is some way to allow the poster to continue to post anonymously? posted by pwally to Feature Requests at 11:33 PM PST - 19 comments
I just want to say that the front page has been incredible recently. What's up as of this post is just stellar post after stellar post. I love you guys. posted by shmegegge to MetaFilter-Related at 9:26 PM PST - 63 comments
Since when is it okay for a user to ask Mefi to do his research for him? (or her) This person wants studies and research as opposed to personal stories... so isn't that just asking us to google it for him/her? posted by IndigoRain to Etiquette/Policy at 6:40 PM PST - 39 comments
PonyRequest: Can the dates at the top of threads be hotlinked? Example: I would like to be able to click on "October 4, 2002" at the top of this thread to see all the posts from this day. posted by blue_beetle to Feature Requests at 6:08 PM PST - 14 comments
Anyone interested in an Austin meet-up next weekend? Maybe Saturday, December 2 at a bar that's not downtown? I've been meaning to try the new wine bar, Vino Vino, on Guadalupe around 43rd. Plenty of seating room and neighborhood parking. posted by lunalaguna to MetaFilter Gatherings at 3:39 PM PST - 21 comments
So, I got caught out by this MePro which had already been posted. Can there be a way to flag MePros that have already been included in other FPPs? posted by dw to Feature Requests at 9:55 AM PST - 8 comments
For some reason the Ask Metafilter RSS feed quit working for me a few days ago. I'm reading it through Bloglines and the last post which shows up is from November 22, 2006 at 6:54am. Is anyone else seeing this issue? posted by dgeiser13 to Bugs at 9:20 AM PST - 16 comments
This post is pure editorial and belongs on the poster's own blog. The FPP makes a point (powerful women are beautiful) that is not made in any her of links. The post is entirely her opinion and because of that the discussion following is a mess. posted by meech to Etiquette/Policy at 1:25 PM PST - 63 comments
I'm trying to find a specific post from who knows when where we talked about the labor practices described in this Palm Beach Post series. Specifically, I remember someone talking about the orange juice companies, and how they either called or emailed them to find out if they did not support/use these practices from those they bought from. Did I imagine this? I can't find it anywhere. Does anyone recall this, or find it? posted by evening to MetaFilter-Related at 8:35 AM PST - 4 comments
It's a pony, but one a lot of people would want to ride, I hope.
I'd love to see an RSS feed of the comments of AskMe questions I post (and for that matter, blue and grey too, though separately), so that I can keep an eye on the responses to me over time. posted by Kickstart70 to Feature Requests at 12:16 AM PST - 7 comments
I'd like to suggest that "um, yeah, post it at metachat." is not a good reason for deletion. Metachat may be all about the stupid links but saying this smacks of snobbery. This was simply a poor post that didn't meet metafilter's editorial guidelines. It wasn't chatty in the slightest. Metachat is not your dumping ground. Can't we all just get along? posted by seanyboy to Etiquette/Policy at 12:01 AM PST - 20 comments [closed]
I observed that I have saved more comments from ROU_Xenophobe as favorites than from anyone else. Having noticed that, I checked ROU's profile, saw "contributions from ROU_Xenophobe saved by others 135 times" and tried to look at these to see if there were any pearls I had missed (aside: yes.) First page of favorites saved by others displays 30 comments. The "next page" link at the bottom apparently goes to page 2 of the favorited comments (the url changes, anyway) but the same 30 comments are displayed. No matter how many times I click "next page" I keep seeing the same 30 comments. Same result in IE6, Mozilla 1.7, and Foxfire 1.5. Darn it, I want to read the rest of prof. Xenophobe's greatest hits. posted by jfuller to Bugs at 6:00 PM PST - 9 comments [closed]
I noticed that if you attempt 3 Mefi logins you're shut out for the day. It seems that this is a good way for misbehaving visitors to shut out any user they don't like, unless the user has a computer logged in already. Am I right? posted by hodyoaten to Etiquette/Policy at 1:38 PM PST - 36 comments
Did this ever get done did? My symbian phone freaks out on the the current layout under opera, with a center column of nearly five or six characters in width bufferred by left-and-right margins approaching a quarter-inch-plus.
Why is the "Shopping for artsy, funky, silly, weird, and/or childish stuff for an artsy, funky, silly, weird, childish family, online delinked? posted by wheelieman to Bugs at 7:24 PM PST - 4 comments [closed]
I can't stay logged in! I log in, click on comments and am suddenly logged out. Or I'll log in and click from, say, Metafilter to Metatalk and I'm logged out again. Am using Safari 2.0.3, have logged out then deleted cookies and have reset Safari too. Same thing keeps happening. What can I do? posted by brautigan to Bugs at 3:27 PM PST - 5 comments [closed]
At the risk of being a scrooge, is there any way at all to curtail xmas gift askme? I know everyone needs special unique gifts for all the special unique snowflakes in their lives, none of whom resemble in any way the recipients other people need to buy gifts for, but it doesn't add a great deal of value to the site as a whole and we've got another month or so of questions like this ahead of us... posted by judith to Etiquette/Policy at 1:49 PM PST - 57 comments
Loudon Dreps: self-link, no. Friend-link, yes. Was this post deleted because it sucked, or because I know the guy? If both, I concede. If only because of association, is that transgression articulated somewhere? I couldn’t find it. posted by Milkman Dan to Etiquette/Policy at 10:14 AM PST - 30 comments [closed]
Problems on "contributions by userx that were saved as favorites by other members" pages: example
1) New favorites (such as today's) are not being added to this page.
2) Clicking on "next page" just reloads the same page even though the url lists it as page 2. Page progression is fubared. posted by madamjujujive to Bugs at 6:57 PM PST - 9 comments
I, for one, would like to congratulate the members of the MetaFilter pseudo-community for NOT posting a "Murdoch/Fox Cancels O.J. Show and Book" NewsFilter in the one hour since it was announced and officially warn anyone considering doing something like that it will not end well. posted by wendell to Etiquette/Policy at 1:52 PM PST - 57 comments
Is anyone going to be at the Macy's Thanksgiving Day Parade in NYC?
My fiancee and I, along with my father, two sisters, and two of my aunts will be escorting the Pillsbury "Holiday Lovin' Oven" float in the parade. We will be dressed as baked goods, apparently. I was hoping that if someone was going to be there and was going to be taking pictures, if they wouldn't mind posting them somewhere so I could see them? Or maybe even just capturing footage from the TV footage would be cool too.
I am hoping this is MetaTalk appropriate. Didn't want to waste space in AskMe. Anyway, if anyone can help out, I'd appreciate it. posted by bDiddy to MetaFilter-Related at 1:19 PM PST - 22 comments
I think it may be time to ban Leyna Howe. She's posted nothing but pseudo "questions" and mostly irrelevant comments about how to convince older men to not have kids (most of her comments and posts have been deleted already). I'm sympathetic to pet causes, but she's not engaging with the community in any way other than to "get the word out." posted by occhiblu to Etiquette/Policy at 8:52 AM PST - 45 comments
After I posted this horrific story, the infighting threads in there blew up to atrocious levels. I know it's not on the front page anymore, but mathowie or jess, it'd be nice if you could take a machete to all the crap infighting threads that people chose to dump in there, 'cause it's still going on. (And, on that issue, the fact that idiots would choose to infight in a thread about such a horrific topic is truly one of the worst moments I've seen on MeFi.) posted by WCityMike to Etiquette/Policy at 11:18 AM PST - 57 comments
WhatWasThatPostFilter: Maybe a year or so ago, somebody posted a link on the blue to a grainy video of what seemed to be pretty violent interrogation. Screamed "viral video", and, as far as I can remember, was derided as such in the thread comments, and maybe even deleted. Anyone remember it? And if so, did anything come of it? posted by slater to MetaFilter-Related at 10:59 AM PST - 5 comments
Since you're already stripping out the image tag code (like on this post), why not either change it to a link or drop the whole line entirely? The code that's left is unsightly. posted by mr_crash_davis to Feature Requests at 4:21 PM PST - 53 comments
A pair of tag-related pony-requests: I've been looking for tag search for a while, and just today discovered it exists on the Metafilter search page. Would it be possible to:
- put a copy of the tag search on the "Tags" page?
- add the same sort of tag searching in AskMe?
Thanks! posted by Upton O'Good to Feature Requests at 11:51 PM PST - 12 comments
Hey Matt, in the gifting spirit, how about a link to the give-a-mefi-membership gift option somewhere on the Blue? Did the "beta" period work out? If so, don't be shy. It's a great feature. I just used it. But I had to hunt and peck through the MeTa archives to find it :) posted by scarabic to Feature Requests at 9:35 PM PST - 8 comments
Why was the post deleted? It doesn't fall under any of the reasons for deletion given in the FAQ. The question isn't offensive or stupid - though I don't actually think that having either of these qualities neccessarily gets other questions tossed from Metafilter.
The reason given for the post deletion is this:
HYPOTHETICAL FILTER WTFFF
Are hypothetical questions not allowed? I find that really hard to believe.
So, with all due respect to the administrators of my absolute all-time favorite website, I ask - as you did: WTF?
This is a spammy self-link in the comments of the green, from a shiny new user. The poster almost asked permission in the gray (the thread just below this one), but I suspect that this isn't quite what #1 had in mind when he said to go ahead and make the post. posted by toxic to Etiquette/Policy at 5:16 PM PST - 9 comments [closed]
I would like to make a comment on a post I had read before about people looking to purchase a will done by a lawyer.I found this company and this may be of some help to you all in your quest. If interested let me know. posted by princey to MetaFilter-Related at 4:24 PM PST - 1 comments [closed]
"if you can craft a definition of news and politics related threads that anyone can read and judge their pending post against, and it's so clear and concise that no one would second guess it and wonder why their news or politics related thread was removed, I'd be happy to add it. Because right now, there's no way I could make a black & white, water-tight set of guidelines for discouraging and deleting political and news posts. I don't keep them around for the traffic, I keep them around because there's no easy way to say what should stay and what should go, as six years of metatalk have already covered." -mathowie
CONFIRMED: NYC meetup on Sunday, December 3, to celebrate the release of MeFiComp!
As first proposed here, we'll meet at Solas (232 E. 9th St., b/t 2nd and 3rd Aves., 1 block north of St. Marks). I know the management, and do a monthly event there already. They have a side room (The Coal Bar) that is normally unused on Sundays, so we'll have the room mostly to ourselves. I'm thinking 6 pm would be a good start time. More details within. posted by Artifice_Eternity to MetaFilter Gatherings at 12:59 PM PST - 30 comments
Any other NYC-area MeFites going to the Nintendo Wii launch in Times Square this Saturday? I will be there, meeting up with some folks from another large online community, and figured I might as well poll here as well :) posted by cyrusdogstar to MetaFilter Gatherings at 11:54 AM PST - 4 comments
57-Chevy-with-a-double-headlight-kit-Filter. Why, when one hovers a link in a post, does the text in the status bar now read 'short cut to x' ? This actually makes it harder to tell to what the link is. Short cut to 53601 tells one nothing. Why does it now have be a detective novel to tell where the link leads ? This is counter-intuitive--why make it more work to tell what the link is ? This is not user friendly.
Please bring back to the status bar the address one would read in the address bar and forget this 'short cut to' crap. Here's a concept: If it ain't broke, don't fix it. posted by y2karl to Bugs at 6:24 AM PST - 12 comments [closed]
Early Sunday morning I made two minor changes to my user page (added my new blog's address, changed the text in the location line), and when I saved the changes and viewed my user page again, it and every other page of MeFi suddenly appeared as white with black text. And so it has remained. If I delete cookies and log out, I see it in blue, grey and green, but not otherwise. Why has this happened and how can I fix it? I dislike the white so much I can't stand to read the site. posted by orange swan to Bugs at 7:45 PM PST - 5 comments
Today's random-deletion gripe: this post was no more worthy of deletion than a bunch of other ones about human relationships.
What's the problem being solved here? Although it was asked in a chatfiltery way, the problem was clearly "The use of the word 'honey' has specific implications about the nature of a relationship for my boyfriend and I don't know why", with a side order of "is he a freak or am I?".
Looking for a picture posted in a deleted thread within the past few months, of a cat in mid-bath, captioned "Why do you do this?" posted by ibmcginty to MetaFilter-Related at 9:21 AM PST - 21 comments
I'm hoping this is a tiny pony request. Size of the cuddlier guide horses, p'raps. It is this: a [+] tag on the dateline of mefi front page posts. Clicking the [+] would add a link to one's Favourites tab. posted by five fresh fish to Feature Requests at 2:29 PM PST - 20 comments
Tags: I hate how they have to be crunched into one word. What's the policy/ettiquette about using underscores? Does it break the database? Or should I avoid them just because they're not convention, therefore no one will know to search for them? posted by Eideteker to Etiquette/Policy at 7:40 AM PST - 53 comments
I hope this is the right place to do it... I just would like to give a great big shout-out to everyone who took time to answer my newspaper job interview and tryout questions.
You all rock, but CunningLinguist, croutonsupafreak, frogan, M.C. Lo-Carb! and game warden to the events rhino rock lots.
And thanks Mr Haughey for making a place where, within minutes, people who had the exact answers I needed were chipping in advice, reassurance and perspective from all over the world. That's pretty damn amazing. You rock too. posted by t0astie to MetaFilter-Related at 12:37 AM PST - 20 comments
Two related questions:
1) Is there a ratio of answers posted to questions asked on AskMeFi that makes one a good citizen? Does only asking questions and never offering answers make one selfish?
2) If one's answer to a question has already been posted, should the same answer be posted again? Is reposting an answer a way to "vote" for that answer and show that multiple people think it's the best, or does a repeat answer that doesn't include any new information just get in the way of answers that have something new to them? posted by andoatnp to Etiquette/Policy at 8:53 PM PST - 30 comments
Expiry date for MeFi Jobs. Jobs should expire automatically after 30 days, and should not appear in the main page/map/tags after that. There should be a possibility to prolong the expiry date if necessary. posted by Sharcho to Feature Requests at 1:26 PM PST - 10 comments
The FPP on Kancept links to a blog which allows scripts in the comments, some of which launch nastiness. When I clicked it in Windows running Firefox 2.0 (having forgotten to update the "noscript" extension) the page tried to launch telnet, make a skype call, launch Outlook Express, and god knows what else before I killed the browser. The comments also display some very, very NSFW animated gifs. I'll be sad to see it go, because the site looks cool, but this is unsafe. I warned people in the thread as well and another MeFite (the astute developer Civil_Disobedient) concurs with my findings. Maybe someone should warn the site admin as well that his blog is being used to launch exploits. posted by edverb to MetaFilter-Related at 12:34 PM PST - 53 comments
"There's a lot [more inside]". Does anyone else find this annoying? I've seen it on a lot of AskMe's lately and it kind of bugs me. A little too cute I think. And its distracting when I'm browsing the questions because I tend to filter out the [more inside]s. What do you think? posted by PercussivePaul to Etiquette/Policy at 1:04 PM PST - 91 comments
My "My Comments" page is broken. "[Macromedia][SQLServer JDBC Driver][SQLServer]Cannot sort a row of size 8407, which is greater than the allowable maximum of 8094." I have a hunch on which thread is to blame. posted by smackfu to Bugs at 8:34 PM PST - 24 comments
This post was deleted for the following reason: SLBOE. there are a few other election threads open, maybe put this in one of them?
Thank you o machines of loving grace. posted by nj_subgenius to Bugs at 6:37 PM PST - 1 comments [closed]
I'd like to organize an NYC meetup in celebration of the release of MeFiComp. Caveats:
1. I'm thinking early December, so that physical copies of the CD are on hand and available for purchase.
2. I'd like to do this at a location where any available and interested MeFiComp artists (including myself) can perform their songs.
3. I've never organized or been to an NYC MeFi meetup! I know a handful of other MeFites, but I have no clue where folks generally like to meet, who usually organizes things, etc. I'm happy to defer to others' suggestions. posted by Artifice_Eternity to MetaFilter Gatherings at 3:14 PM PST - 43 comments
Alright, this is just lame -- I asked a very specific question related to the election and it got deleted. I wanted to find a capsule summary of how Rush and Hannity were playing post-election as Wednesday programming opened. If my post is considered too redundant or inflammatory, fine, but telling me to go listen to the radio is kind of callous and rude. I said I missed the coverage and as it is, out where I live I don't even know if we get the shows. You all don't have to repost it; but I'm just kind of teed off. posted by stam_broker to Etiquette/Policy at 2:59 PM PST - 54 comments
I'm looking for an AskMe question: someone who was offered a job but doesn't want to respond until they find out if they're going to get their dream job which they also applied for. I think it's pretty recent.
The [Favorites from Username] page; an indicator for when a favourite post has been updated since the last visit to the favorite's page? posted by porpoise to Feature Requests at 8:29 PM PST - 5 comments
Can we have an election day thread? Is that too NewsFilter? I can't think of what would make an appropriate link for an FPP on the blue, but here's the Tradesports lines at least. (Predictions, drinking games, oh yeah, and news/links are probably in order as well.) (And popcorn.) posted by spiderwire to MetaFilter-Related at 6:14 AM PST - 81 comments
This huge thread kills Safari/OmniWeb. I'd like there to be a preference that allows me to see massive posts broken up by 100s of comments or something. Alternatively, is there a different CSS file that can be loaded for these that will keep Safari/OmniWeb from crashing? posted by onalark to Feature Requests at 8:54 PM PST - 17 comments
Why, in the great image purge, did some folks lose the images in their profiles while other members still have images in their profiles? I click to people's profiles to see who I'm talking to and I've noticed some members whose images seem to have survived the purge while mine did not. What's up with that? Is the image tag ban really useful and necessary? posted by taosbat to Bugs at 8:12 PM PST - 168 comments
Why don't San Diego mefites ever gather? Is there any interest in a meetup? I was looking at the nearby users and there are dozens - we could almost take over the world if we organized well. posted by routergirl to MetaFilter Gatherings at 4:35 PM PST - 44 comments
So I take it that the military endorsement for Rummy's resignation, as triple posted in the blue over the weekend, never materialized? posted by c:\awesome to MetaFilter-Related at 9:12 AM PST - 67 comments
It's this week! The San Francisco meet-up, that is. Thursday, November 9, 2006, 7:30 p.m.-ish, Soluna Cafe & Lounge. McAllister Street (272 McAllister, to be exact), right near Civic Center BART. We'll be in and around the bar area. posted by ClaudiaCenter to MetaFilter Gatherings at 8:39 AM PST - 12 comments
This Askme comment advocating illegal property damage and assault, needs to be deleted and the commenter, one Meatbomb, should probably get a time out. Normally I would just flag and move on, but it's hard enough as it is to make helpful posts in legal threads. I really don't want to be in the same thread along with such nonsense, even if it's only there for a few hours before deletion. posted by footnote to Etiquette/Policy at 8:01 AM PST - 54 comments
Ok, when did posts with incredibly little content become acceptable on Metafilter? How is this an acceptable post? Why not just link to the image on the front page so we don't have to bother clicking a link to see one image?
Matt or Jess, could you de-linkify the word "nationwide" in this post? I moved it to be the initial link for the post, but neglected to clean up my HTML. posted by WCityMike to Bugs at 10:17 PM PST - 1 comments [closed]
So I guess favoriting is still broken for Opera. (I posted about this on Oct 25th). I dunno if Matt intends to support this feature on Opera or not, but I thought I'd prod anyway to see if the answer might be yes. (Please!)
Yeah, yeah, I'll switch to Firefox, it just crimps my browsing style. It's just not my... favorite. posted by beth to Bugs at 8:20 PM PST - 3 comments [closed]
London Meet Up?: I'm (back) in London for a week in December and was wondering if anyone fancied a meet up. I'm around from the 7th-11th and could probably manage a night out on either the 8th or the 9th. North/Central London preferred. Camden/Kentish Town/Tuffnell Park/Archway would be ideal - but I can get pretty much anywhere zones 1-3 (now getting home, that's another matter)...
Vancouver (BC) meetup in the moderately near future? Plenty of time to plan, and initiating it is the only way I can make sure I'm going to be there. Need to commune with fellow geeks. Must be able to speak coherently in presence of female. That said, all welcome! Former Seattleite, so anyone wishing to road-trip with enough notice is encouraged!! posted by mireille to MetaFilter Gatherings at 2:16 AM PST - 19 comments
I'm trying to find an image that was linked to a few days ago. It featured Wilfred Brimley with a caption of "DIABEETUS" or some spelling like that. The comment was posted as two periods, since the img tag is disabled and I can't recall who posted it. posted by daninnj to MetaFilter-Related at 11:20 PM PST - 16 comments
To help avoid multiple re-posts, wouldn't it be helpful to be able to find the deleted posts in a search? At least it would be a little easier to find than the single instance post. posted by fenriq to Feature Requests at 10:22 PM PST - 10 comments
This year, How to take Congress hostage, how much of a body would vultures get through in three days, and how to deliver a baby outdoors. In short, lots of interesting questions getting asked and answered. Last year, a (presumably very young) novelist just wanted to know what having sex was like. posted by AmbroseChapel to MetaFilter-Related at 3:24 PM PST - 4 comments
DanielGeduld's grandfather Sol's archives were the subject of a recent post on Boing Boing. Three-digit MeFite grumblebee is Daniel's brother, Sol's grandson, and a childhood acquaintance of yr. humble servant. I felt others might be interested to learn this, and Mr. G. Bee has assented to this post. posted by mwhybark to MetaFilter-Related at 7:45 PM PST - 25 comments
"You know, the thing I really can't stand about queers is they're all Evangelicals like this guy or Republicans like Foley or both. As Amberglow will be the first to tell you, the more you deny it, the more that proves it true." posted by prostyle to Etiquette/Policy at 6:59 AM PST - 107 comments
Toronto MeFites, let us have a meeting of our not-so-secret cabal and create Canada's stealth plan for world domination. Or just have an alcohol-enabled bitchfest like usual. Whatever. Does the night of November 11th sound good? posted by orange swan to MetaFilter Gatherings at 6:15 AM PST - 13 comments
self/commercial link? This link seems really suspicious to me. It could be an attempt to boost the page rank of that legal marketing page, or something. Posters in the thread seem pretty skeptical of the claims, and it just seems sketchy to me. posted by delmoi to Etiquette/Policy at 5:23 AM PST - 12 comments [closed]
First off, congratulations on 50000! Now, onto the pony. I'm wondering if the "Unanswered" tab could produce a little bit different of a result than it does now. Also, if we could get a little running total like "xxxx questions answered!" posted by chrisroberts to Feature Requests at 9:39 AM PST - 62 comments
Does anyone recall a post about an odd, violent mythology that had supposedly sprouted up amongst under-privilaged latino children in florida? The mythology involved angels and demons and how they affected gang violence and the like. I believe it was posted two years or so ago but I can't find it for the life of me. posted by es_de_bah to MetaFilter-Related at 5:46 PM PST - 35 comments
Okay Chicago Mefites, you've foiled me by a matter of days before, but I live here now (again)... what say you to a meetup before the holidays hit? posted by FlamingBore to MetaFilter Gatherings at 7:56 AM PST - 17 comments