Metatags? October 28, 2008 5:05 PM   Subscribe

Metatalk has thread tagging now?

Neato. [----------->]
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken to MetaFilter-Related at 5:05 PM (58 comments total) 1 user marked this as a favorite

Flameout
DeletionComplaint
BoingBoing
posted by Artw at 5:06 PM on October 28, 2008


Yep. We're going to be a little more hardass about the "don't use the tags to editorialize" guideline we don't care as much about on the rest of the site. Using tags to taunt users is pretty much against the rules but otherwise, yes please enjoy your shiny tags, and titles.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:08 PM on October 28, 2008


Yeah, we have a backtagging/titles project going for metatalk, and I mentioned to pb today that I can't actually see the output and new posts weren't getting tags on them so they'd keep showing up in our untagged pile, so pb added tagging to the posting page and for five minutes the add tags box was showing along the side.

The backtagging project is about 10% done (it's slow going and a ton of work), but we're trying to pick helpful descriptive tags without goofy stuff like "batshitinsaneflameouthahaha" tags. Here are some tips we set out from the get go:

* things to tag: site name [askme, meta, music, projects, travel, anonyme], proper names of admins/subjects [try to avoid proper naming in flameout threads], proper names [gawker, iraglass, nytimes]

* basic terms: shoutout [good stuff] callout [bad stuff], etiquette or policy [is in the categories but not split out], pony [for feature requests, this is a nice easy tag], media [for media mentions]. We'll hammer more out as we go but basically speaking go as simple as possible. Admins have find/replace tools so if there's a big gaffe, we can fix it.

* metafilterhistory is okay, use sparingly.

* feel free to check the popular tags page [mefi, askme] to see what the standard form for a tag is, but don't beat yourself up over it. The admins have a tag replacer so if you see a tag or set of tags that is broken, let me or cortex know and I can make one tag the "standard" Generally don't spend too much time on this, but try to check spelling if you're unsure. When in doubt add both tags.

* please don't editorialize.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:11 PM on October 28, 2008 [4 favorites]


The tags are the one place in MetaTalk where editorializing is forbidden. The fact that I understand the reasoning behind this doesn't stop it from being kinda funny.
posted by Mister_A at 5:16 PM on October 28, 2008


where "me" in mathowie's list is actually me though you can certainly let him know too.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:16 PM on October 28, 2008


callout [bad stuff]

*facepalm*

Ah well, still all good. Thanks for new feature! Engineer is credit to team!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:17 PM on October 28, 2008


And also, yay!

Here is the #1 tag as of right now:
cortexwhywasmyfrickinawesomepostdeleted
posted by Mister_A at 5:17 PM on October 28, 2008


The current tag cloud is kind of fun to glance at. One of the implications of this project is the ability to track down regional meetups by tag name, which is a nice bonus.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:18 PM on October 28, 2008 [1 favorite]


*facepalm*

The implication is not that a callout is a bad thing, but that a callout is a metatalk post where someone is calling out bad behavior. If I'm reading your reaction right.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:19 PM on October 28, 2008


SNOWFLAKEGENOCIDE
posted by The Straightener at 5:20 PM on October 28, 2008 [2 favorites]


*facepalm*

We're just trying to get some sort of consistency in MeTa taxonomy so that moving forwards people can know what to call things. A callout "hey this is something bad" versus a shoutout "hey this is something good" seems like a decent way to start. A lot of this is just spur of the moment thinking wiht a little back and forth on the mod list and then we'll assess it and see how it's going. I'd just like to head off some of the 911 septembereleventh 9/11 stuff we've seen in MeFi since it's even more important in Meta that we can group similar threads.

Of course this will all be much more awesome once we have faceted searching, but one step at a time.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:22 PM on October 28, 2008


The current tag cloud is kind of fun to glance at.

Well crap, I've been tagging "call-out" when the popular option is clearly "callout". Ditto with "meet-up" and "meetup".
posted by EndsOfInvention at 5:24 PM on October 28, 2008


jessamyn, can you please explain faceted searching, preferably with a sweet and good-natured video that gives me a renewed and healthy perspective on this crazy world? Thanks.
posted by Mister_A at 5:28 PM on October 28, 2008 [2 favorites]


Sweet! Gonna backtag all my posts now!

What? It's a slow work day!
posted by Effigy2000 at 5:30 PM on October 28, 2008


Oh. Dosen't look like I can. Oh well.

Neat feature though1
posted by Effigy2000 at 5:32 PM on October 28, 2008


Is there any way I can tag my own old posts? I was able to backtag my own posts in the blue when it was first brought in. I'm not keen on the idea of going to the tagging page and 'getting ten more' until mine shows up.
posted by tellurian at 5:37 PM on October 28, 2008


What Effigy2000 said.
posted by tellurian at 5:38 PM on October 28, 2008


I would like to find...
[ ] a comment
[ ] a post

that was...
[ ] made by this user
[ ] in a thread started by this user
[ ] in a thread also commented in by this user
username: _________________

appearing in...
[ ] MeFi
[ ] AskMe
[ ] MeTa
[ ] Jobs
[ ] Projects
[ ] Music
[ ] someplace
[ ] my favorites
[ ] threads I commented in, someplace

between this date range...
________ to __________


having these tags...
_________, __________, __________


in this category....
_______________


that had...
over/under/exactly _________ favorites
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:39 PM on October 28, 2008 [7 favorites]


Tagging your old posts will be coming up but we want to get everything tagged first.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:39 PM on October 28, 2008


[ ] butter on popcorn
posted by waraw at 5:50 PM on October 28, 2008


Tagging your old posts will be coming up but we want to get everything tagged first.

We only get to tag them after they've already been tagged?
posted by timeistight at 5:55 PM on October 28, 2008


Well, the way this was going to happen is that we were going to have the back tagging team do a pass through the MeTa posts, then we were going to announce it and have people tag their old post [if it's your post you can add and remove tags anyways]. Keeping in mind that most people on MetaFilter don't even come to MetaTalk, much less make posts here.

However, we had to make the tags visible so we could see what was happening and what we were all doing -- and so MeTa threads going forward would be tagged -- and so this all came out at once. Please be patient, thanks.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:01 PM on October 28, 2008


The implication is not that a callout is a bad thing, but that a callout is a metatalk post where someone is calling out bad behavior. If I'm reading your reaction right.

Sorry, that *facepalm* assumed that people are more familiar with my dusty old closet of hobbyhorses than they actually are or should be. The Metatalk Soapbox Syndrome at work.

What I meant (and have yammered on about before when overcaffeinated) is that the more-or-less consensus adoption of the word 'callout' to describe a Metatalk thread about (probably) an individual's misbehaviour kind of sets up an expectation that, rather than an opportunity to discuss the behaviour in general and seek community norms in our usual messy way through discussion, there is a personal finger-pointing, which subtly encourages aggression and driveby assholery and drama and flameouts and all that bad stuff.

It's just a language thing, but I reckon it's a word-choice that reinforces the negative aspects of Metatalk over the positive ones, and kind of sets up the idea in the minds of people, all subconscious like, and especially for new users, that a recess-playground 'callout' is a good model for that kind of bad-actor chastening thread.

Not a big deal, I'm sure. I just get worked up over words sometimes.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:07 PM on October 28, 2008


Well, the way this was going to happen is that we were going to have the back tagging team do a pass through the MeTa posts, then we were going to announce it and have people tag their old post [if it's your post you can add and remove tags anyways].

Oops, sorry!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:09 PM on October 28, 2008


[ ] elephant with peanuts
posted by davejay at 6:14 PM on October 28, 2008


Oops, sorry!

No no it's totally fine, this all makes sense it just explains (maybe) why we're not totally our usual "this is the PLAN" selves re:questions.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:21 PM on October 28, 2008


Not to assume you haven't thought of it and it's in the works already, but just in case... A Tags link in the header and footer would be rad.
posted by carsonb at 6:32 PM on October 28, 2008


Might make sense to add a link to the tag cloud for MeTa to the backtagging instructions at the bottom of the backtagging page.
posted by LobsterMitten at 6:34 PM on October 28, 2008 [1 favorite]


That's a good idea LM, I did that.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:46 PM on October 28, 2008


Yay.
posted by and hosted from Uranus at 6:52 PM on October 28, 2008


It's just a language thing, but I reckon it's a word-choice that reinforces the negative aspects of Metatalk over the positive ones, and kind of sets up the idea in the minds of people, all subconscious like, and especially for new users, that a recess-playground 'callout' is a good model for that kind of bad-actor chastening thread.

Ah, yeah, I can dig it. Taxonomy's a bitch, I guess; though I agree somewhat with your take on it, callout has both an apt succintness (when read, and I think legitimately if yeah likely not consistently, as less specifically fingerpointy) and the traction of long history here behind it such that replacing it with some alternate term would be hard to do. Energy likely better spent on changing the behavior through discussion than bemoaning the lexeme, if you will.

And as far as that goes, I have a totally-unbacked-by-any-research feeling like "callout" has been somewhat on the decline in metatalk over the last couple of years as a term of incitement to nastiness, possibly as just an expression of the slow and steady changing of the guard with new blood coming into the site that is less versed in some of the older historic nastiness from years back.

But I don't know if I'm actually on the mark with that. Hunch, anyway.
posted by cortex (staff) at 7:17 PM on October 28, 2008


The tag cloud for MeTa looks like it has "Policy pony."

Who is this pony, and why does he get to make all the rules!?
posted by Ms. Saint at 7:19 PM on October 28, 2008


I've only done a couple. It's MUCH harder than the two previous Title and Tag projects.
posted by reflecked at 7:25 PM on October 28, 2008 [1 favorite]


OK, I think that this feature is great and after thinking about it for a bit I have a suggestion that may make the mods life easier.

Instead of allowing people to create free-form tags whenever they post to MeTa, how about having a list of pre-determined tags for people to choose from when creating their post? The variety of tags should be wide ranging enough so that people don't feel boxed into choosing a tag that dosen't quite fit (so as to avoid complaints we often see about the Add Contact or Categories in Askme). That should help make sure that the 'no editorialising' rule you've established is adhered to and you don't have people posting threads tagged with batshitinsaneflameouthahaha.'

And, like I said, might make your jobs a little easier. Just a thought.
posted by Effigy2000 at 7:29 PM on October 28, 2008


Yeah, way more difficult, I agree with reflecked. It's tough to decide, especially in the real train-wreck threads, where the line is between editorializing and describing. When things are really, really bad, even a simple description can sound judgy out of context. It's also more fascinating reading for students of metafilter history such as myself, so I get caught up reading long after I know what the tags should be. There's also a half decent chance that a thread is going to switch from pony request to callout to flameout to mefi-sleuthing and end up at ban-hammering, so you kind of have to read to the end.
posted by donnagirl at 7:35 PM on October 28, 2008 [2 favorites]


I agree that it's really hard to tag MeTa posts. Actually, it's without a doubt the hardest thing I've ever done at metafilter (other than restraining myself from constantly posting sarcastic comments in askme).
posted by blue_beetle at 8:38 PM on October 28, 2008 [1 favorite]


Request to backtaggers: where massive shitfight flamewar arguments end up in the handshakes and the hugs and the oral sex and such, as they have many times, a 'hugs' tag would be an excellent thing.

That might just be beyond the pale of your mandate, though, I admit.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:52 PM on October 28, 2008


metafilterhistory is okay, use sparingly.

As long as this thread gets a metafilterhistory tag, I'm happy. (And I suppose airnxtz's more recent appearance as princeofpersiaxz here might also count.)
posted by Dasein at 10:12 PM on October 28, 2008


How does one become I backtagger? I'd like to help some, but haven't gotten the opportunity -- I wasn't even aware of prior backtagging campaigns till reading their completion announcements here.

And hey, it would be a good way to catch up on things past.
posted by Rhaomi at 10:39 PM on October 28, 2008


Also, pb might want to take a quick readability design pass at the post lists you get from clicking on a tag from the cloud, like this one.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:45 PM on October 28, 2008


This thread prompted me to go do some and I came across this; If you click on 'add tags' without putting any tags in, it says 'Click here to add tags for this photo.' in the tag field. Just like flickr!
posted by tellurian at 11:40 PM on October 28, 2008


Guten tag!
posted by flapjax at midnite at 2:51 AM on October 29, 2008


Actually my latest greeting from flickr was "Góðan daginn". I've no idea how to pronounce it but, Hi! Kattullus.
posted by tellurian at 4:09 AM on October 29, 2008


In fact, I wouldn't know how to type that ð character. Copy paste is good [via] but doesn't cover every eventuality.
posted by tellurian at 4:24 AM on October 29, 2008


I watched Luis von Ahn's Human Computation talk again the other day, and it strikes me that something like the ESP Game could work every bit as well for generating good backtagging as it does for labelling images. In fact, if that were the standard method for generating tags on MeFi postings, rather than having author-chosen tags, I'd expect the tag quality to go way up. How is pb doing for Copious Free Time™?
posted by flabdablet at 5:11 AM on October 29, 2008


Does the ð in "Góðan" strike anybody else as oddly three-dimensional?
posted by flabdablet at 5:14 AM on October 29, 2008


Seems like a waste of time since I'm just going to delete your tags on my post.

Though if I wanted to help spread the tags around...? Make me a superstar!
posted by Eideteker at 5:55 AM on October 29, 2008


Thanks!

Now I can sound smrt around people who know less than me about faceted search.
posted by Mister_A at 6:14 AM on October 29, 2008


Can a link be added for the metatalk tags, titled [gasp] "tags"? We have tags but no link! I had to, like, type stuff to see it!
posted by cowbellemoo at 6:40 AM on October 29, 2008


And while we're at it, can tags be symantically combined? Like "deletion, deleted, deletions" are showing up separately. Either through some manual linking or some sort of dictionary hash. Same for all the other sites?

I know. This pony is probably hard.
posted by cowbellemoo at 6:48 AM on October 29, 2008


Can a link be added for the metatalk tags, titled [gasp] "tags"?

while we're at it, can tags be symantically combined?

Did you miss the part where I said please be patient? We're not going to add a bunch of tag visualization stuff [other than the cloud] or links in to the tags until we've pretty much populated what we have already. The semantic combo stuff is one of the reason this project is a bit of a hassle since unlike AskMe or MeFi there really are some tags that represent the same "aboutness" value like you said [deleted/deletion/deletions] and yet if we want humans to tag them (and we do) there's going to be some clean-up.

I love this community fiercely but it's got a really high coefficient of intelligent fussy nitpickers (myself included) that make projects like this difficult because not only does everyone have a slightly different slant on how this should work (which is useful) they've also got this sort of compulsion aspect such that it's hard for them to look at it unfinished, slightly broken, or not as awesome as it could be. ftfy-itis.

So, we're going to go through the tag stuff as a first pass with our existing team of (200 or so) backtaggers. Then we're going to have people going through and checking and dealing with their own content. Then we're going to add links and faq information and probably a "tag flag" of some sort in case people start using MeTa tags as metasnark and then we'll see if it winds up being as useful as we think and hope it will be.

And then faceted search, oh faceted search. And then I will take a nap.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 6:56 AM on October 29, 2008


The tag cloud for MeTa looks like it has "Policy pony."

Who is this pony, and why does he get to make all the rules!?
posted by Ms. Saint at 10:19 PM on October 28 [+] [!]


It is the Ying to the Drama Llama's Yang. All internet discussions emanate from the ebb and flow between these two entities. The Policy Pony imposing cool, rational order on the raving Drama Llama, the Drama Llama injecting raw emotional chaos into the stale world of the Policy Pony.

We cannot see these beings personally, for they are too great for us to comprehend, so we can only interact with their avatars in this digital realm. The Drama Llama sends forth its hordes of Trolls and Newbs, forever disrupting thoughts and attempting to draw those around them into emotional chaos. The Policy Pony is championed by the Moderators who attempt to crush these disturbances in the order of things. We are all but pawns in their eternal game, being pulled to one side or another, to be fought until the end times when Al Gore returns and dances upon his creation.

These are the truths, child. All else is shadows and mist.
posted by cimbrog at 7:04 AM on October 29, 2008 [6 favorites]


Did you miss the part where I said please be patient?

Sorry! Just throwing things out there in the (unlikely) case no one had given them thought. And I was remiss in not adding "when all else is settled, if it please you, good souls."

[waits for the next feature to burst forth from mathowie's head fully-formed with weapons drawn.]
posted by cowbellemoo at 7:30 AM on October 29, 2008


I gotta say, it feels really weird to add content to a mathowie post.

Also, I closed the "matthewchen is spamming" post before I could add anything to it. Single tear.
posted by scabrous at 7:34 AM on October 29, 2008


I keep trying to make time for this project, but my job keeps demanding my attention.

It's hugely irritating.
posted by quin at 8:31 AM on October 29, 2008


I'd like to second stav's request for a "hugs" tag. Also, good work, all!
posted by languagehat at 9:08 AM on October 29, 2008


I seem to no longer be able to edit tags by clicking on the "tags" line. I can go into the post and delete them (typo), but I can't go back and add the tag properly.
posted by oneirodynia at 12:38 PM on October 29, 2008


Well, nevermind. After trying about a dozen times, I clicked somewhere else on the page and tried again and now it's fine.
posted by oneirodynia at 12:41 PM on October 29, 2008


« Older Detectivefilter   |   Charlotte meet-up Newer »

You are not logged in, either login or create an account to post comments