Burying the hatchet. March 25, 2004 5:51 PM   Subscribe

This has gone on long enough. I'm going to take a radical step and drag myself into MetaTalk. Once upon a time skallas was a guy, whom while I disagreed with him often, I respected his intelligence and convictions. But somewhere things got weird and no we're at eachother's throats all the time. It's making this unpleasant for me, probably for him and probably for everybody reading too. So, it's gotta stop.

I could have taken it to e-mail, but I'm doing it publicly for a couple of reasons. One, I think if the both of us (two well known public fueders) can cool out and agree to disagree like gentlemen, we can set an example for the rest of the site. And also, because someone once said that I owed skallas an apology as public as the insult I made, so here it is.

So, skallas, I'm willing to bury the hatchet if you are. You with me?
posted by jonmc to Etiquette/Policy at 5:51 PM (82 comments total)

I could have taken it to e-mail

definitely.
I understand the main thrust of your argument, and I appreciate it, but imagine what would happen if all the MetaBrawl duelists ended up opening MeTa threads about their rhetorical fistfights. zero usability for the site.
posted by matteo at 5:55 PM on March 25, 2004


I understand that apprehension, matteo, and I certainly don't want everybody to take this step, but I think doing this here may be the impetus needed to cool things out a bit. And for what it's worth, I was thinking of the fact that you and me-who used to brawl frequently-have managed to become civil and congenial with eachother when I wrote this.
posted by jonmc at 6:00 PM on March 25, 2004


And also, because someone once said that I owed skallas an apology as public as the insult I made, so here it is.

Where is it, jon? The apology? If you are gonna make it public, don't you think the words "sorry","because.....","I'll try not to do it again" should be there?

I have no idea - on first glance - what your offence is/was.
posted by dash_slot- at 6:04 PM on March 25, 2004


OK, I'm sorry that I've gone over the line into personal attacks on him. I'm sorry that I've let my arguments get out of hand, and I'm sorry that I've spoiled threads for others while brawling with the guy, and I'll try not to do it anymore. For my own good, and the good of this community.
posted by jonmc at 6:07 PM on March 25, 2004


matteo, this isn't a fistfight, this is someone trying to set a precedent for mefi (and a very good precedent it is).
posted by poopy at 6:07 PM on March 25, 2004


In that case, I'll have to cancel my big plans for a popcorn stand and build a hanky stand instead.

Hanky, sir? Get in touch with your feelings a bit, mate?

Naah, won't work. Popcorn! Get 'yer popcorn here for the big fight!!!
posted by yhbc at 6:10 PM on March 25, 2004


[Damn. For once in 3.5 months I get to see the start of a thread that looks interesting & I have to drag myself off into the pounding rain in search of a fiord. Grrr.]

This could be a good example & as it is between two high-profile MeFites I think jonmc's intentions are good & honourable. Good on yer.

I wouldn't want it to become a regular occurrence. That said, if a few extra MeTa threads cool a few fingers then not a bad thing at all.

Oh & I think Miggy (who else!) was the first to drag himself into MeTa.

[Looks outside. Sees - OMG! - sunlight. Makes a dash for it.]
posted by i_cola at 6:11 PM on March 25, 2004


Your a big guy, jonmc... good on yer.
posted by dash_slot- at 6:13 PM on March 25, 2004


BuryTheAxFilter

[/pours a 40 for his homies]
posted by crunchburger at 6:16 PM on March 25, 2004


Good on you jonmc.

skallas, I'm willing to bury the hatchet if you are
You can do this yourself, if necessary - not responding to those who goad you does a lot towards defusing them.
posted by dg at 6:30 PM on March 25, 2004


And also, because someone once said that I owed skallas an apology as public as the insult I made, so here it is.

By all means, apologize if it makes you feel better, but you don't "owe" skallas shit. Balance skallas' insults against anyone else -- including you -- and you'll see that he's the one with the apology deficit.
posted by pardonyou? at 6:30 PM on March 25, 2004


Some of us are wondering if a whole thread for a single apology is a good idea. Maybe it would be worth it if we all made it one big schmaltzy sickening group hug?

Let's see, with whom have I had a (okay, pretty damn minor) tangle lately..?

I'm so sorry scarabic!

*breaks down blubbering*
posted by Shane at 6:35 PM on March 25, 2004


I'm not sorry to any of you asshats.

So there.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:51 PM on March 25, 2004


This is noble of you, jonmc - I applaud your initiative and it's inspiring too.

I really like Skallas and fail to see why he's fallen out of favour. He's such an interesting, honest poster! His posts are consistently entertaining and thought-provoking. It seems stupid (and not a little contrary) to blame him for being so consistent with his views. I'm a God-fearing Orthodox Jew and I've learnt a lot from him - he addresses the same issues of fairness, rationality and basic justice which I think are basically human.

Perhaps people here aren't used to be addressed person-to-person, in keeping with the "you have your opinion, I have mine" attitude which is the mark of civilization. Sometimes the hankering after consensus really frightens me.

A great gesture, Jonmc - not in the artificial sense of "just making a move" but in the old Latin gesta sense.

You're both quite alike and, in this respect, have a good amount of the qualities I appreciate. You had a ridiculously "bad press" here for a while, just for speaking your mind. The same with good old Skallas.

In the words of the great poet Coleridge: [this is good]!
posted by MiguelCardoso at 6:54 PM on March 25, 2004


Can we at least get a duel with nerf guns at 20 paces?
posted by substrate at 6:55 PM on March 25, 2004


A comedian who blames his audience is just bad at his job. Sorry, jonmc with you its impossible to tell if youre giving us your usual advocacy for apathy or lame jokes.

Yes, you caught me, skallas, I'm completely apathetic about an event that happened 300 fucking years ago that nobody can do a damn thing about. Hell, even your comment indicates that you'd rather talk about the fundie yo-yo's in the White House that we can possibly do something about.

And, I don't know about everyone else, but I'd certainly take some levity in a tense time over more axe-grinding, chest-beating and zealotry. Because quite frankly, skallas, you're basically a fundamentalist without the religion. Same hysterical paranoid mindset, same intolerance of disagreement, same old mean-spiritedness.

And this time, kid, you made it personal.
posted by jonmc at 5:29 PM PST on March 25


Metatalk.
posted by jonmc at 5:52 PM PST on March 25


There is a subtext here: Conflict, mood swing, remorse and offer of a truce
--an inclination towards good will intends to emerge.
posted by y2karl at 6:57 PM on March 25, 2004


someone once said that I owed skallas an apology as public as the insult I made, so here it is

Wait... where was it? I missed the words "I'm sorry" if they were in there.

Follow Shane's example. Blubbering optional ;)
posted by scarabic at 7:07 PM on March 25, 2004


*ahem*
posted by jonmc at 7:09 PM on March 25, 2004


Ah - gotcha. Of course, you used the third person in that sentence, which is more of a public declaration of regret than a straight apology. Not to nitpick, but when I'm finally ready to apologize, I'm pretty effusive about it, and having some emotional charge tends to make an apology more productive. Once more, with feeling, perhaps?

This isn't the first majopr skallas-centric MeTa callout. Have any of the others had an impact?
posted by scarabic at 7:14 PM on March 25, 2004


I like both of you, but have a little favor to ask of you guys: If you can, and it's not something outright personally insulting or really deserving of a smackdown, could you two not rise to the occasion when someone baits you, whether it's the other or anyone else? It really tends to derail threads. And I know it's easier said than done. I'm trying to do the same.

*makes everyone sit in a circle and sing Kundalini or Chumbawumba or something* : >
posted by amberglow at 7:15 PM on March 25, 2004


Hey. Isn't there someone missing here at the love-in?
posted by chicobangs at 7:16 PM on March 25, 2004


nobody is buying my FUCKING popcorn. this is getting very very annoying
posted by yhbc at 7:22 PM on March 25, 2004


I'm not sorry to any of you asshats.

As a lot of you know, my public and private feud with Mr_Crash_Davis has been bitter and protracted, with much enmity and angry words wasted by both sides. Ultimately, it hasn't resolved anything, and has alienated both us of from the community.

And that is how we like it. So y'all can sit on your thumbs. Especially you, Davis!!!
posted by Hildago at 7:23 PM on March 25, 2004


Can't we all just get along? skallas, just make an appearance and say "ok" and then we can all move on.

Pretty please?
posted by davidmsc at 7:27 PM on March 25, 2004


I am very very sorry.
posted by homunculus at 7:29 PM on March 25, 2004


Fuck this! I want popcorn!
posted by mischief at 7:41 PM on March 25, 2004


TWO MEN ENTER! ONE MAN LEA---- wait, there's no fighting going on here! This sucks!
posted by graventy at 7:53 PM on March 25, 2004


I'm all about the love now, graventy.
posted by jonmc at 7:54 PM on March 25, 2004


skallas clearly fears the love.

(Has anyone told him? Or does he have a whaddyacallit, one of those things that takes you away from the computer... a life! Right. Does he got one of those?)
posted by chicobangs at 8:01 PM on March 25, 2004


>I could have taken it to e-mail

Yeah. Thats would have been a good idea. Its one comment dude, you should learn to relax, sheez. Sorry I didnt find you funny. You're funny. Okay. Kiss and make up? No tongue.
posted by skallas at 8:03 PM on March 25, 2004


Well, we've been bashing heads for a while, dude. But that's done as far as I'm concerned.

Truce accepted.

*and there was much rejoicing*
posted by jonmc at 8:05 PM on March 25, 2004


Also, to be fair, I don't take this site personally and often forget others do. I mean, stuff like this makes me laugh. There are a lot of anti-skallas threads, I'm a fairly popular target, etc. Thats fine, I'm used to it.
posted by skallas at 8:09 PM on March 25, 2004


Again, the main reason I went public, is that I was getting bored watching everybody get all Texas Death Match on eachother, mainly since it detracts from actually hearing anything anyone says, which is kind of the point of the place. And I realized that I do it as much as anyone. So I'm trying to lead by example.
posted by jonmc at 8:14 PM on March 25, 2004


Actually, I'd noticed that after the last drubbing you took for being a church-bashing commie, you laid off a bit on all that stuff, skallas. Which is a good thing, and a hearty yabba-dabba-doo is in order.

I like both of the combatants in question quite a lot, and it's good when swords are beaten into plowshares and all of that nice stuff. We haven't had much in the way of new people to grind into metapaste in a long time, so it has gotten a little persnicketty in our little Biodome lately.

Let this be a lesson to us all.

As for me, I'm still gonna keep poking MidasMulligan with sticks, though, if that's OK. But I'll try to keep it civil.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:18 PM on March 25, 2004


Yeah, I blew up at quonsar too. It gets kind of sad when you threaten someone for making snide remarks about you personally. Looking back, I now know that bitching back and forth doesn't make you or your opponent the "bigger man", so I had my slice of humble pie. That does not mean I wasn't not burned by his assumptions, it just means I have to take things said online towards my persona with a grain of salt.
posted by Keyser Soze at 8:21 PM on March 25, 2004


[dave mason]

Anyway, haven't seen you in a while.
How've you been? Have you changed your style?
And do you think that we've grown up differently?
Don't seem the same since you've lost your feel for me.
So let's leave it alone 'cause we can't see eye to eye.
There ain't no good guy, there ain't no bad guy,
There's only you and me and we just disagree.
Ooh-ooh-ooh, oh-oh-oh.

[/dave]

*flicks bic*
posted by jonmc at 8:23 PM on March 25, 2004


All this popcorn is going to go to waste, isn't it?

This is JUST like when I bought all that dot-com stock in 1999.
posted by yhbc at 8:23 PM on March 25, 2004


Well, they're calling each other "dude."

*wonders if that's a good thing*
posted by anathema at 8:26 PM on March 25, 2004


C'mon, tell us. Did anyone get tongue? I'd buy popcorn to watch that!
posted by onlyconnect at 8:28 PM on March 25, 2004


Well, they're calling each other "dude."

*wonders if that's a good thing*


[mott the hoople/david bowie]


Oh the television man is crazy
Saying we're juvenile delinquent wrecks
Oh man I need TV when I got T. Rex
Brother you guessed
I'm a dude yeah

All the young dudes
Carry the news
Boogaloo dudes
Carry the news

[mott]

OK, I'll stop now.
posted by jonmc at 8:30 PM on March 25, 2004


What is a boogaloo dude, exactly? I've always wondered.

Yeah, I know, take it to AskMe.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:35 PM on March 25, 2004


I think it's being used prescriptively, staverino, meaning he's commanding the dudes to boogaloo.

Which reminds me of a joke my Dad used to tell me.

He'd see me playing with my baseball cards and say: "Son, did you know that Boog Powell was actually one of the Alou brothers but he changed his name because he didn't want to be known as Boog Alou."

*ducks*
posted by jonmc at 8:40 PM on March 25, 2004


A better use for all this popcorn is beginning to form in my mind. It involves large piles.
posted by yhbc at 8:43 PM on March 25, 2004


Y'all had me at "Hello."
posted by keswick at 8:47 PM on March 25, 2004


And the LORD spaketh, saying "I command thee, young dudes, to boogaloo, and for thy sons to boogaloo alongside thee. Let this be MY covenant."
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:48 PM on March 25, 2004


But, lord, how far should we boogaloo? All the way to Memphis?
posted by jonmc at 8:50 PM on March 25, 2004


But, lord, how far should we boogaloo?

Well, you know...yhbc has that pile of popcorn...
posted by dejah420 at 9:01 PM on March 25, 2004


Freak. Isn't anybody gonna break a chair over somebody's back? If this stops, I'm never going to get to have a grudge match with anyone.
posted by namespan at 9:53 PM on March 25, 2004


It involves large piles
You can get a cream for that, you know. My guess is that it works better than popcorn.
posted by dg at 10:07 PM on March 25, 2004


I'd buy some of your popcorn, yhbc, but last I recall YOU WERE SUPPOSED TO HAVE RETIRED FROM THE SITE

And yes, I want the retirement gift I sent back

And yes, I'm glad that you aren't taking the retirement all that seriously
posted by filmgoerjuan at 10:32 PM on March 25, 2004


You can get a cream for that, you know. My guess is that it works better than popcorn.

MetaFilter: Always Orbiting Uranus.

MetaFilter: Have You Seen My Colonoscopy?
posted by y2karl at 10:37 PM on March 25, 2004


Hey! This popcorn has been pissed in!
posted by scarabic at 10:47 PM on March 25, 2004


But, lord, how far should we boogaloo?

Just boogaloo down Broadway.
posted by timeistight at 11:27 PM on March 25, 2004


The new tagline for MetaTalk: What? No train wreck?
posted by ed at 11:32 PM on March 25, 2004


As for me, I'm still gonna keep poking MidasMulligan with sticks, though

*sniffle* And I'll be right there beside ya, big guy *a single tear rolls down my cheek*
because rightwingers people should only be allowed to have opinions if they can back them up with rational arguments like my man Steve@
posted by Ryvar at 1:21 AM on March 26, 2004


Kiss and make up? No tongue.

No tongue?!?

Damn, dude.
posted by wdpeck at 1:57 AM on March 26, 2004


I just want to apologize to Josh's mom, and Mike's mom, and my mom. I am so sorry! Because it was my fault. I was the one who brought them here. I was the one that said "keep going south." I was the one who said that we were not lost. It was my fault, because it was my project.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 5:17 AM on March 26, 2004


Sometimes when the posts aren't so good, its the third grade snarkiness that keeps me going.

In that spirit, I would like to start a feud with everyone on this thread.

That's right. Come and get it you bastards! You'll be eating your popcorn off the ground with broken tongues!

(laughs manically) hahahahahahahahaha!



Do uh, metatalk posts, like, uh, affect your metafilter reputation?
posted by ewkpates at 5:28 AM on March 26, 2004


I understand the main thrust of your argument, and I appreciate it, but imagine what would happen if all the MetaBrawl duelists ended up opening MeTa threads about their rhetorical fistfights. zero usability for the site.

I'd be posting new threads every fucking day.
posted by SpaceCadet at 5:33 AM on March 26, 2004


Also, to be fair, I don't take this site personally and often forget others do. I mean, stuff like this makes me laugh. There are a lot of anti-skallas threads, I'm a fairly popular target, etc. Thats fine, I'm used to it.

That's how I feel too. Guys, this is a frikkin' website, not a place to validate your worth in this world or a popularity contest.

(or is it....?)
posted by SpaceCadet at 5:44 AM on March 26, 2004


Well, it's the morning, I'm back, I blubbered last night to try to start something here, and still quonsar and Keyser haven't had make-up sex (and scarabic didn't apologize back to me?)

That's it, you're all on my grudge list now. I will hound you all thru' MeFi to MeTa to AskMe to the Gates of Hell. Piss on yer threads, I will.

No quarter!
(Okay, I guess Keyser made nice a little bit, so you're off the hook. This time.)
posted by Shane at 6:04 AM on March 26, 2004


Do uh, metatalk posts, like, uh, affect your metafilter reputation?

Oh God no, no course not! Nobody actually reads MeTa except the biggest wankers.
posted by Ryvar at 6:20 AM on March 26, 2004


Ryvar, that is so true.

Those types are wholly beneath comtempt, pond scum, they eat babies, piss in the popcorn, etc. etc.
posted by chicobangs at 7:10 AM on March 26, 2004


Sometimes the hankering after consensus really frightens me.

Hankering is a positive force, I think; making an effort to reach a consensus or find common ground is the root of civilization itself—it's those who drift toward homogeneity for it's own sake in themselves and compulsion of others to toe some imagined line that worry me.
posted by rushmc at 7:27 AM on March 26, 2004


Oh God no, no course not! Nobody actually reads MeTa except the biggest wankers.

Hankering is a positive force, I think(...)

What's the opposite of burying the hatchet, Ryvar and rushmc? Whatever, I'm disinterring, sharpening, wielding two at this very moment. Expect no kiss-and-make-ups before May. ;)
posted by MiguelCardoso at 8:40 AM on March 26, 2004


Yeah, I'm pro-hankering. Rush is right.
posted by Ignatius J. Reilly at 9:31 AM on March 26, 2004


Hankering is a positive force, I think; making an effort to reach a consensus or find common ground is the root of civilization itself—it's those who drift toward homogeneity for it's own sake in themselves and compulsion of others to toe some imagined line that worry me.

Fuckin' commie* - let's celebrate diversity!

* said in a jokey, non-agressive way, and I apologise if I caused any offense - take the olive branch here and now and save a thread!
posted by SpaceCadet at 9:46 AM on March 26, 2004


Hanky stand-up

this is s good thing. and i must say i have really tried to tear up some of trouts stuff as of late and he has been a gentleman.
posted by clavdivs at 9:48 AM on March 26, 2004


/hears the world's smallest violin playing somewhere nearby.
posted by xmutex at 9:53 AM on March 26, 2004


Shane, I'm sorry if my contributions to your AxMe question didn't help you find an answer.
posted by scarabic at 11:24 AM on March 26, 2004


*sniff burble blubber*
posted by Shane at 11:33 AM on March 26, 2004


This is all well and good, but what I want to know is, did i_cola ever find his fiord?

*grabs a handful of yhbc's popcorn, spits it out, makes appalled face, calls lawyer*

OK that's it, yhbc, you lousy...

*remembers purpose of thread, begins haltingly singing Kum-Ba-Ya, makes appalled face, runs for exit*
posted by languagehat at 12:36 PM on March 26, 2004


This thread is a joke, 73 comments long.
posted by rocketman at 6:49 PM on March 26, 2004


With a meaningless tag, just like on a sitcom.

*does a double take*
*popcorn flies*
*freeze-frame*
*executive producer credit*
*fade*
posted by wendell at 7:55 PM on March 26, 2004


please, put some brevity in the what-you -would- do -in-real-life skits.

that is all.
posted by clavdivs at 9:29 AM on March 27, 2004


Hmph. Yeah, the apologies here were all a joke, except maybe for jonmc's. I'm almost disappointed, but,
*cue classic songs and film lines*
Cry me a river. I'll cry tomorrow.
posted by Shane at 11:02 AM on March 27, 2004


jonmc, unless your sponsor is a wimp, this aint gonna cut it as a fifth step.
posted by quonsar at 12:31 AM on March 29, 2004


Fiord found. Altho' someone is going to have to explain;

a) the difference between a fiord & a sound &
b) why the hell this thread didn't turn into the slugfest we all wanted expected?
posted by i_cola at 8:30 PM on March 29, 2004


Hey, don't ask-a me, I only make-a da popcorn.
posted by yhbc at 8:56 PM on March 29, 2004


b) why the hell this thread didn't turn into the slugfest we all wanted expected?

Cause it's all beautiful now, it's all about peace and love. And we're all gonna be naaaaked, maaan....

*gets naked, jumps in pile of popcorn*
posted by jonmc at 6:40 AM on March 30, 2004


Sigh. This is why I love this site. You guys are great!
posted by Dantien at 1:50 PM on March 31, 2004


Bloody hippies...

;-)
posted by i_cola at 4:31 PM on March 31, 2004


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