but is there advantage to the new ajaxy front page October 23, 2006 4:14 AM Subscribe
I don't mean to sounds like a complete luddite, but is there advantage to the new ajaxy front page other than being cool and web2.0-ish?
If Matt enjoys doing it, it keeps MetaFilter viable.
posted by Meatbomb at 5:03 AM on October 23, 2006
posted by Meatbomb at 5:03 AM on October 23, 2006
I like the tabs, but I don't see the point in the ajax-iness of it. You're saving what, 10 lines of html by not refreshing the whole page?
Ajax would be good for posting comments, though. I really like the way dailykos uses ajax in the comments section.
posted by empath at 6:49 AM on October 23, 2006
Ajax would be good for posting comments, though. I really like the way dailykos uses ajax in the comments section.
posted by empath at 6:49 AM on October 23, 2006
The constant changes remind me of those double headlight kits that came out after 1958 when all the new cars had double headlights. All these bells and whistles are sort of like a continental spare tire kit and extra tail fins and a double headlight kit put on a 1957 Chevy. It's like the front page can't have enough buttons. Maybe we need some pull down menus and dancing Geocitie sidebars, too. Or tiki lights. There just aren't enough buttons on the front page. We need more. And more. and more. We need more. And more. and more. It's so double headlights extra tail fins continental spare tire kit classic Web 2.3856-y
Or should I say the constant anal sex only changes remind me of those double anal sex only headlight kits that came out after 1958 when all the new anal sex only cars had double anal sex only headlights. All these anal sex only bells and anal sex only whistles are sort of like a continental anal sex only spare tire kit and extra anal sex only tail fins and a double anal sex only headlight kit put on a 1957 anal sex only Chevy. It's like the anal sex only front page can't have enough anal sex only buttons. Maybe we need some pull down menus and dancing Geocities anal sex only sidebars, too. Or tiki lights. THere just aren't enough anal sex only buttons on the anal sex only front page. We need more anal sex only. And more. and more. It's so double anal sex only headlights extra anal sex only tail fins continental anal sex only spare tire kit classic anal sex only Web anal sex only 2.3856-y
posted by y2karl at 7:20 AM on October 23, 2006 [2 favorites]
Or should I say the constant anal sex only changes remind me of those double anal sex only headlight kits that came out after 1958 when all the new anal sex only cars had double anal sex only headlights. All these anal sex only bells and anal sex only whistles are sort of like a continental anal sex only spare tire kit and extra anal sex only tail fins and a double anal sex only headlight kit put on a 1957 anal sex only Chevy. It's like the anal sex only front page can't have enough anal sex only buttons. Maybe we need some pull down menus and dancing Geocities anal sex only sidebars, too. Or tiki lights. THere just aren't enough anal sex only buttons on the anal sex only front page. We need more anal sex only. And more. and more. It's so double anal sex only headlights extra anal sex only tail fins continental anal sex only spare tire kit classic anal sex only Web anal sex only 2.3856-y
posted by y2karl at 7:20 AM on October 23, 2006 [2 favorites]
With Mac/Safari I don't see no stinking AJAX. What are you all talking about?
posted by evoo at 7:25 AM on October 23, 2006
posted by evoo at 7:25 AM on October 23, 2006
It saves a bit of page load, since the sub-pages don't need to get the header and footer.
(That's all I got.)
posted by smackfu at 7:32 AM on October 23, 2006
(That's all I got.)
posted by smackfu at 7:32 AM on October 23, 2006
Don't tell me I'm the last to make the connection between flash and ajax? How non-Web 2 am I?
posted by tellurian at 7:43 AM on October 23, 2006
posted by tellurian at 7:43 AM on October 23, 2006
Would somebody please give y2karl some anal sex? It's really been bugging him lately.
posted by mediareport at 7:45 AM on October 23, 2006
posted by mediareport at 7:45 AM on October 23, 2006
what really buggers me is that 'a' right afore "anal sex only".
posted by carsonb at 7:49 AM on October 23, 2006
posted by carsonb at 7:49 AM on October 23, 2006
As with all asynchronous requests, all it does is shave a second off of page load times.
posted by gsteff at 7:56 AM on October 23, 2006
posted by gsteff at 7:56 AM on October 23, 2006
Oh, I'm just tired of seeing 'anal sex only!' on the sidebar every day for weeks and weeks. In fact, I'm tired of the sidebar. Very little on it is interesting to me.
It's like there's four new buttons every three days. To me, it seems like a classic simple design is getting buried in features. there is an argument to be made that less is more, feature wise. I don't know, maybe there should be a separate bells and whistles page for the bells and whistle crowd. Or a separate all buttons page. At the rate things are going, it will be needed soon enough.
posted by y2karl at 7:58 AM on October 23, 2006
It's like there's four new buttons every three days. To me, it seems like a classic simple design is getting buried in features. there is an argument to be made that less is more, feature wise. I don't know, maybe there should be a separate bells and whistles page for the bells and whistle crowd. Or a separate all buttons page. At the rate things are going, it will be needed soon enough.
posted by y2karl at 7:58 AM on October 23, 2006
Ajax would be good for posting comments, though.
And even more useful for flagging and favouriting.
posted by jack_mo at 8:13 AM on October 23, 2006
And even more useful for flagging and favouriting.
posted by jack_mo at 8:13 AM on October 23, 2006
For those that don't like them, how hard are they to ignore? I did my best to de-emphasize them to the point where they were shuffled off to the right, low contrast. They're there, but you don't have to click on them or sneer at them and can go about using the site exactly like it was a week ago.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:20 AM on October 23, 2006
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:20 AM on October 23, 2006
Oh, and also, if the tabs weren't ajax and opened new pages for each tab, would that be any better or worse? I hear a lot of people saying the in-page loading isn't necessary but it feels a lot faster than new pages to me.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:21 AM on October 23, 2006
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:21 AM on October 23, 2006
I am tired of all the fou fah as well. I want a simple clean design with no blips and bloops messing it up. I want to type in www.metafilter.com and I want a solid blue page to come up. I want no stupid buttons, or distracting links, or bothersome words to ruin it. I just want to see the color blue. I want my address bar thingy with the house and those two light blue lines to dissappear. I want the back and forward buttons gone. I want nothing but the color blue. I then want to lean forward and be swallowed by that blue, and for all my troubles and worries to go away. I want to drift in a dimension of the color blue, with no thought and no care. No more pain.
No more pain.
posted by ND¢ at 8:51 AM on October 23, 2006 [3 favorites]
No more pain.
posted by ND¢ at 8:51 AM on October 23, 2006 [3 favorites]
The site changes break all sorts of greasemonkey scripts. I haven't bothered to update my scripts yet until the site settles down.
Normally a greasemonkey script runs after a page loads. If what was a page-load now happens via AJAX the script will have to be changed to detect the AJAX and re run itself.
This is a pain for general scripts that run for several sites (of which MEFI is just one).
posted by MonkeySaltedNuts at 8:53 AM on October 23, 2006
Normally a greasemonkey script runs after a page loads. If what was a page-load now happens via AJAX the script will have to be changed to detect the AJAX and re run itself.
This is a pain for general scripts that run for several sites (of which MEFI is just one).
posted by MonkeySaltedNuts at 8:53 AM on October 23, 2006
Should I site owner worry about greasemonkey support? I tend to think no. About the most I could do is give gm script authors some heads up, but I don't even know who all does them besides plutor and some unknown metafilthy author.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:57 AM on October 23, 2006
posted by mathowie (staff) at 8:57 AM on October 23, 2006
Speaking of the sidebar....why not ditch the archive links. They take up about 1/4 of the sidebar space and, although I might be wrong, I would have thought they don't get used much(?). There is of course an archive link at the top and bottom of the page anyway.
posted by peacay at 9:00 AM on October 23, 2006
posted by peacay at 9:00 AM on October 23, 2006
How many Mefis does it take to change a lightbulb?
posted by edgeways at 9:05 AM on October 23, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by edgeways at 9:05 AM on October 23, 2006 [1 favorite]
I like the tabs. I just think the ajaxiness of it isn't that useful. It just seems like the site is now using ajax where it shouldn't be and isn't where it should.
Ajax should be used when only a fraction of the page is being updated (for example-- new comments being posted, something being favorited, etc). When 90% of the page is being updated, it's kind of a waste, particularly when it breaks basic functionality like the back button.
posted by empath at 9:06 AM on October 23, 2006
Ajax should be used when only a fraction of the page is being updated (for example-- new comments being posted, something being favorited, etc). When 90% of the page is being updated, it's kind of a waste, particularly when it breaks basic functionality like the back button.
posted by empath at 9:06 AM on October 23, 2006
For those that don't like them, how hard are they to ignore?
Not very, now that you've moved them to the right, but those of us with small screens tend to not like anything that eats into the front page. But I've adjusted already; the additions seem trivial and ignoring them is easy. It's just that taking up space on the front page for 'popular favorite' posts and 'my favorite' posts does seem kinda pointless, when the functionality to find those things easily was already present (that's particularly true for MeTa, where one person can create a 'popular favorite').
Anyway, back to the anal sex: I'm just tired of seeing 'anal sex only!' on the sidebar every day for weeks and weeks.
We know. You've said it four times now. There'll probably be another unrelated MeTa thread along in a sec, if you care to make it five.
posted by mediareport at 9:09 AM on October 23, 2006
Not very, now that you've moved them to the right, but those of us with small screens tend to not like anything that eats into the front page. But I've adjusted already; the additions seem trivial and ignoring them is easy. It's just that taking up space on the front page for 'popular favorite' posts and 'my favorite' posts does seem kinda pointless, when the functionality to find those things easily was already present (that's particularly true for MeTa, where one person can create a 'popular favorite').
Anyway, back to the anal sex: I'm just tired of seeing 'anal sex only!' on the sidebar every day for weeks and weeks.
We know. You've said it four times now. There'll probably be another unrelated MeTa thread along in a sec, if you care to make it five.
posted by mediareport at 9:09 AM on October 23, 2006
MetaFilter: Seriously debating a "anal sex only" rule.
posted by Mister_A at 9:17 AM on October 23, 2006
posted by Mister_A at 9:17 AM on October 23, 2006
web 2.0: solutions looking for a problem
i'm sick of seeing 'anal sex only' prominently highlighted on the front page too. whatever happened to the collapse sidebar functionality?
posted by quonsar at 9:19 AM on October 23, 2006
i'm sick of seeing 'anal sex only' prominently highlighted on the front page too. whatever happened to the collapse sidebar functionality?
posted by quonsar at 9:19 AM on October 23, 2006
It's just that taking up space on the front page for 'popular favorite' posts and 'my favorite' posts does seem kinda pointless, when the functionality to find those things easily was already present
Last week, I showed jessamyn the popular favorites sitewide page and she hadn't seen it EVER. It wasn't easily and already present when an admin misses it. And it wasn't just her, the people that read mefi a few times a week I asked didn't know about it either and thought it was a killer view of the data. It lets anyone see just the best posts from the past couple days in one click. For people that check in once in a while (not y2karl), it's a valuable new feature.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:20 AM on October 23, 2006
Last week, I showed jessamyn the popular favorites sitewide page and she hadn't seen it EVER. It wasn't easily and already present when an admin misses it. And it wasn't just her, the people that read mefi a few times a week I asked didn't know about it either and thought it was a killer view of the data. It lets anyone see just the best posts from the past couple days in one click. For people that check in once in a while (not y2karl), it's a valuable new feature.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 9:20 AM on October 23, 2006
I don't mean to sounds like a complete luddite, but is there advantage to the new ajaxy front page other than being cool and web2.0-ish?
the frontpages now take roughly twice as long as normal to load. so it provides you with more opportunity to do real work while you wait.
posted by Stynxno at 9:25 AM on October 23, 2006
the frontpages now take roughly twice as long as normal to load. so it provides you with more opportunity to do real work while you wait.
posted by Stynxno at 9:25 AM on October 23, 2006
Another vote for a hideable sidebar. I often read the site on my Blackberry, and the sidebar takes up miles of real estate that must be scrolled through to get to the latest post. This happens every time the front page is loaded.
posted by Optamystic at 9:43 AM on October 23, 2006
posted by Optamystic at 9:43 AM on October 23, 2006
I want nothing but the color blue. I then want to lean forward and be swallowed by that blue, and for all my troubles and worries to go away. I want to drift in a dimension of the color blue, with no thought and no care. No more pain.
Lose yourself in contemplation. Lose yourself in...metafilter.
posted by cortex at 10:08 AM on October 23, 2006 [1 favorite]
Lose yourself in contemplation. Lose yourself in...metafilter.
posted by cortex at 10:08 AM on October 23, 2006 [1 favorite]
Another vote for a hideable sidebar
And another one here, it would make the site work better on Blazer (Palm).
posted by teleskiving at 10:09 AM on October 23, 2006
And another one here, it would make the site work better on Blazer (Palm).
posted by teleskiving at 10:09 AM on October 23, 2006
"For those that don't like them, how hard are they to ignore?"
I liked the tab idea when you first put up the "beta" on AskMe a while back... but I didn't like the idea of having it spread to the Blue -- it seemed like extra clutter. This smaller, trimmer version I like a lot better. I came to the front page this morning and thought, "Oh, the tabs are in -- and actually, those don't get in the way at all!" But I actually didn't notice them until after I had been reading for a few minutes.
I'm fine with 'em. Not sure how much I'll use them (at least on the Blue), but they stay out of my way and don't keep me from using the site just as I had before.
Sidebar-wise: I like it, because it's easy to ignore when I want to and it gives me a tiny bit of insight into How Matt's Brain Works. If it's creating usability problems for folks, I'm all for fixing that, but I like having it there and find it pretty unobtrusive.
Oh -- and I had never seen the Popular Favorites page until you linked it just now.
posted by nickmark at 10:10 AM on October 23, 2006
I liked the tab idea when you first put up the "beta" on AskMe a while back... but I didn't like the idea of having it spread to the Blue -- it seemed like extra clutter. This smaller, trimmer version I like a lot better. I came to the front page this morning and thought, "Oh, the tabs are in -- and actually, those don't get in the way at all!" But I actually didn't notice them until after I had been reading for a few minutes.
I'm fine with 'em. Not sure how much I'll use them (at least on the Blue), but they stay out of my way and don't keep me from using the site just as I had before.
Sidebar-wise: I like it, because it's easy to ignore when I want to and it gives me a tiny bit of insight into How Matt's Brain Works. If it's creating usability problems for folks, I'm all for fixing that, but I like having it there and find it pretty unobtrusive.
Oh -- and I had never seen the Popular Favorites page until you linked it just now.
posted by nickmark at 10:10 AM on October 23, 2006
The tabs are a fine place to put links, but reducing the total number of links in and around the top of the page would be good. The Favorites button in the third row of top nav. is a duplicate of My Favorites in the tabs.. So, maybe all of the third row of top nav. could be tabs instead. Or something..
posted by Chuckles at 10:39 AM on October 23, 2006
posted by Chuckles at 10:39 AM on October 23, 2006
Is the seperation between My Comments and My Posts really important to people? I often make an early comment in my posts just so they will show up in My Comments..
posted by Chuckles at 10:41 AM on October 23, 2006
posted by Chuckles at 10:41 AM on October 23, 2006
MonkeySaltedNutsThe site changes break all sorts of greasemonkey scripts. I haven't bothered to update my scripts yet until the site settles down.
Yah, Mondo Meta is partially broken too, depending on what one does on a particular page, and will not get updated until the site change frequency drops. But I agree that Matt Haughey should not concern himself with third-party scripts when he does site work. Still, at a semi-educated guess, I'd wager a minimum of a couple hundred people use MetaFilter-related scripts here. And there are a sufficient number of common scripts (at least a dozen) and active authors (I know of six without digging too hard) that it might be time to consider an informal discussion of the issues involved in upgrading the scripts ranging from programming problems to conflict avoidance.
Nothing complicated; one idea would be simply an e-mailed heads-up and casual discussion in a MetaTalk topic without involving Matt. Currently MetaFilter-based scripts appear to be mainly the product of solo development without much outside discussion with other users and developers, which is a bit funny considering the type of site they support. Us programmers have a term for that: suboptimal. Perhaps script use and development has grown to the point an unofficial Greasemonkey confab or conduit would useful. Perhaps not. Further feedback, or lack thereof, would be useful to tell which.
[reposted due to site time-out, in case of duplicate]
posted by mdevore at 10:50 AM on October 23, 2006
Yah, Mondo Meta is partially broken too, depending on what one does on a particular page, and will not get updated until the site change frequency drops. But I agree that Matt Haughey should not concern himself with third-party scripts when he does site work. Still, at a semi-educated guess, I'd wager a minimum of a couple hundred people use MetaFilter-related scripts here. And there are a sufficient number of common scripts (at least a dozen) and active authors (I know of six without digging too hard) that it might be time to consider an informal discussion of the issues involved in upgrading the scripts ranging from programming problems to conflict avoidance.
Nothing complicated; one idea would be simply an e-mailed heads-up and casual discussion in a MetaTalk topic without involving Matt. Currently MetaFilter-based scripts appear to be mainly the product of solo development without much outside discussion with other users and developers, which is a bit funny considering the type of site they support. Us programmers have a term for that: suboptimal. Perhaps script use and development has grown to the point an unofficial Greasemonkey confab or conduit would useful. Perhaps not. Further feedback, or lack thereof, would be useful to tell which.
[reposted due to site time-out, in case of duplicate]
posted by mdevore at 10:50 AM on October 23, 2006
The ajaxified tabs are not bookmarkable, which is reason enough to switch to regular Web pages.
posted by kindall at 11:20 AM on October 23, 2006
posted by kindall at 11:20 AM on October 23, 2006
I want nothing but the color blue. I then want to lean forward and be swallowed by that blue, and for all my troubles and worries to go away. I want to drift in a dimension of the color blue, with no thought and no care. No more pain.
NDcent = lawnmower man?
the sidebar takes up miles of real estate that must be scrolled through to get to the latest post
this didn't happen for me today (old ass pocket pc). I think the sidebar got moved down to the bottom for mobile users. another issue for portable mefites is that the new tabs are a useless jumble. can the be deactivated for mobile users?
posted by carsonb at 12:00 PM on October 23, 2006
NDcent = lawnmower man?
the sidebar takes up miles of real estate that must be scrolled through to get to the latest post
this didn't happen for me today (old ass pocket pc). I think the sidebar got moved down to the bottom for mobile users. another issue for portable mefites is that the new tabs are a useless jumble. can the be deactivated for mobile users?
posted by carsonb at 12:00 PM on October 23, 2006
I guess the obvious observation is, the new design clearly gives something more to people who really need new features -- I'm sure there's more than a few of us who don't. I don't particularly use "my comments", "myposts", and I fear I won't really use the new tabs. but kudos and thanks to mathowie, I'm sure thousands of users like the new features
me, I'd LOVE to have the chance to add comments to my own FPPs after the one-month time limit, to keep some of them up to date. but I'm sure nobody really needs or wants that FPP-poster-as-subadmin thing
shamefully, I also don't knowwhat ajax is (well, yes, it's a Duth soccer team and a bathroom cleaner, but I'm sure you're talking about a different ajax)
posted by matteo at 12:13 PM on October 23, 2006
me, I'd LOVE to have the chance to add comments to my own FPPs after the one-month time limit, to keep some of them up to date. but I'm sure nobody really needs or wants that FPP-poster-as-subadmin thing
shamefully, I also don't knowwhat ajax is (well, yes, it's a Duth soccer team and a bathroom cleaner, but I'm sure you're talking about a different ajax)
posted by matteo at 12:13 PM on October 23, 2006
I used platypus to to get rid of the sidebar, ads, tabs and anything else I didn't like. If that helps anyone.
posted by bob sarabia at 12:18 PM on October 23, 2006
posted by bob sarabia at 12:18 PM on October 23, 2006
On a related note, when did the ability to collapse the sidebar(s) disappear, specifically the one in Metatalk?
posted by The God Complex at 12:37 PM on October 23, 2006
posted by The God Complex at 12:37 PM on October 23, 2006
...I'm sure thousands of users like the new features.
Yeah, well, I would need a couple of upgrades past technopeasant to get to Luddite, myself, so, whatever, it's all good.
posted by y2karl at 12:47 PM on October 23, 2006
Yeah, well, I would need a couple of upgrades past technopeasant to get to Luddite, myself, so, whatever, it's all good.
posted by y2karl at 12:47 PM on October 23, 2006
I want MetaFilter to only show me things I'm interested in. And then to blow me like a cheap plastic trumpet.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:20 PM on October 23, 2006
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:20 PM on October 23, 2006
blow me like a cheap plastic trumpet.
surely you mean strumpet.
posted by quonsar at 1:27 PM on October 23, 2006
surely you mean strumpet.
posted by quonsar at 1:27 PM on October 23, 2006
The ajaxified tabs are not bookmarkable, which is reason enough to switch to regular Web pages.
Good call. One thumb is now sideways.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:53 PM on October 23, 2006
Good call. One thumb is now sideways.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 1:53 PM on October 23, 2006
The ajaxified tabs are not bookmarkable, which is reason enough to switch to regular Web pages.
Yeah, I like the tabs, but I don't see that using Ajax to implement them makes sense. There are two really good use cases for Ajax:
1. You're trying to emulate a desktop app look & feel inside a browser, and the entire interface is effectively encapsulated in a single page containing multiple panels. A three-pane mail app is a perfect example of this. It's not even trying to follow the typical web model of linked pages, so you don't really care about the back button, bookmarking, etc.
2. You have a small bit of the page that updates dynamically without user intervention while the rest of the page stays static. An example here would be stock market info; the page contains lots of information about a given stock, but one bit of the page is a dynamically updated price. In this case, you do want the page itself to be bookmarkable, and follow normal conventions for the back button, but one bit of it is continually refreshed as long as you're on it.
MeFi's tabs don't follow either of these models. Because virtually all of the content of the page is replaced, it seems like it should just be a new page to me.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 2:16 PM on October 23, 2006
Yeah, I like the tabs, but I don't see that using Ajax to implement them makes sense. There are two really good use cases for Ajax:
1. You're trying to emulate a desktop app look & feel inside a browser, and the entire interface is effectively encapsulated in a single page containing multiple panels. A three-pane mail app is a perfect example of this. It's not even trying to follow the typical web model of linked pages, so you don't really care about the back button, bookmarking, etc.
2. You have a small bit of the page that updates dynamically without user intervention while the rest of the page stays static. An example here would be stock market info; the page contains lots of information about a given stock, but one bit of the page is a dynamically updated price. In this case, you do want the page itself to be bookmarkable, and follow normal conventions for the back button, but one bit of it is continually refreshed as long as you're on it.
MeFi's tabs don't follow either of these models. Because virtually all of the content of the page is replaced, it seems like it should just be a new page to me.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 2:16 PM on October 23, 2006
Armitage is quite right. There's no point to these new features. Even if there were features on the site which were good, but people didn't know about them, that's no reason to re-work the whole site either.
Speaking in very general terms, I find it disappointing that all this effort (money?) is being spent on fancy web 2.0/AJAX features (what was the demand? And surely if there was demand for a feature, it wasn't for the AJAX version of that feature, just pure functionality) when the basics are still unreliable.
But I already know what Matt's answer is going to be. Everyone wants to be an AJAX developer, but you just can't get good Cold Fusion developers.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 2:36 PM on October 23, 2006
Speaking in very general terms, I find it disappointing that all this effort (money?) is being spent on fancy web 2.0/AJAX features (what was the demand? And surely if there was demand for a feature, it wasn't for the AJAX version of that feature, just pure functionality) when the basics are still unreliable.
But I already know what Matt's answer is going to be. Everyone wants to be an AJAX developer, but you just can't get good Cold Fusion developers.
posted by AmbroseChapel at 2:36 PM on October 23, 2006
I wish the sidebar would update more often. Surely one new thing a day would justify its existence a lot more than the 1 per two weeks or so we see now? As someone notes, it gives mattologists some smoke signals to decipher.
Otherwise, its all good.
posted by Rumple at 3:11 PM on October 23, 2006
Otherwise, its all good.
posted by Rumple at 3:11 PM on October 23, 2006
The ability to view the front page by threads-in-which-you've-commented isn't there anymore, which is a shame, but that functionality has been superceded by the My Comments page, anyway, so it's all good.
The "My Comments" page absolutely and in no way supercedes the functionality of the mycommentedthreads page. "My Comments" is awful.
posted by five fresh fish at 3:56 PM on October 23, 2006
The "My Comments" page absolutely and in no way supercedes the functionality of the mycommentedthreads page. "My Comments" is awful.
posted by five fresh fish at 3:56 PM on October 23, 2006
Man, that's a muddled sentence. Short form: "My Comments" gnaws donkey balls.
posted by five fresh fish at 3:58 PM on October 23, 2006
posted by five fresh fish at 3:58 PM on October 23, 2006
They're there, but you don't have to click on them or sneer at them and can go about using the site exactly like it was a week ago.
No. The most key functionality for my participation on MeFi is disabled: sortby=mycommentedthreads is gone.
Part of MeFi's success has been in the simplicity of its design.
The key to MeFi's continued success is going to be in developing tools for power users to more effectively manage their participation in MeFi.
To wit, MeFi is too busy for your core users — the 20% who provide 80% of content — to stay abreast. If one is not unemployed or able to surf at work, it is next to impossible to participate in more than a couple serious threads.
At least, that's what I'm finding. The Ajaxy stuff does nothing to help me, and a fair bit to hinder me.
What I really need is the ability to bookmark a thread so that it appears in the "mycommentedthreads" list that we used to have, so that I can keep tabs on the stuff that most interests me. I need to be able to Shift+Click the thread links so that they open in background tabs, loading while I continue to scan the list of active threads.
posted by five fresh fish at 4:08 PM on October 23, 2006
No. The most key functionality for my participation on MeFi is disabled: sortby=mycommentedthreads is gone.
Part of MeFi's success has been in the simplicity of its design.
The key to MeFi's continued success is going to be in developing tools for power users to more effectively manage their participation in MeFi.
To wit, MeFi is too busy for your core users — the 20% who provide 80% of content — to stay abreast. If one is not unemployed or able to surf at work, it is next to impossible to participate in more than a couple serious threads.
At least, that's what I'm finding. The Ajaxy stuff does nothing to help me, and a fair bit to hinder me.
What I really need is the ability to bookmark a thread so that it appears in the "mycommentedthreads" list that we used to have, so that I can keep tabs on the stuff that most interests me. I need to be able to Shift+Click the thread links so that they open in background tabs, loading while I continue to scan the list of active threads.
posted by five fresh fish at 4:08 PM on October 23, 2006
What five fresh fish said (the next-to-last time).
Will this new-fangled version of Ajax get my sink just as clean?
posted by dg at 4:11 PM on October 23, 2006
Will this new-fangled version of Ajax get my sink just as clean?
posted by dg at 4:11 PM on October 23, 2006
Damnit, stop talking until I am finished! Change next to last time to next to next to last time.
posted by dg at 4:13 PM on October 23, 2006
posted by dg at 4:13 PM on October 23, 2006
five fresh fish, mark every thread you want to follow as a favorite. Click the my favorites tab. Done.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 4:20 PM on October 23, 2006
posted by mathowie (staff) at 4:20 PM on October 23, 2006
Also, go ahead and mark all of my posts as "favorites". Cause, you know, they're pretty awesome.
posted by jonson at 4:29 PM on October 23, 2006 [1 favorite]
posted by jonson at 4:29 PM on October 23, 2006 [1 favorite]
Also, five fresh fish and everyone else, I just copied the My Comments query over to a new tab, which is live on the front page. Let me know if that is exactly what used to be there, as I haven't touched the code or used the feature in four years so I'm not sure it's what it used to be.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 4:29 PM on October 23, 2006
posted by mathowie (staff) at 4:29 PM on October 23, 2006
Wouldn't it be less work for the server if "My Favo(u)rites" was a cached page? It only needs to be redone when I add or delete a favourite.
posted by timeistight at 4:34 PM on October 23, 2006
posted by timeistight at 4:34 PM on October 23, 2006
I just copied the My Comments query over to a new tab, which is live on the front page. Let me know if that is exactly what used to be there, as I haven't touched the code or used the feature in four years so I'm not sure it's what it used to be.
Matt, thanks!
posted by ericb at 4:46 PM on October 23, 2006
Matt, thanks!
posted by ericb at 4:46 PM on October 23, 2006
Just got to the MeFi front page... looks like some of my wishes are coming true. And noting that Matt's now mentioning it in this thread.
First, then, a quick spin on the page.
Report: by Jove, it takes a long time to query the db, but all seems to be right once again!
Although this means I have to have JS enabled, which is kind of a piss-off, because the message preview code is so slow that I prefer to disable it. Couldja make preview a user option, Matt?
And as I'm trying to use the Favourites thing to do a "threads I'm following" tricks:
From the "Recent Posts" tab, be able to click a (+) symbol to have a thread added to "My Favourites" without having to actually click the link to the thread and then click [+ add to favourites].
I'd like that to be done invisibly to me. This will allow me to continue scrolling down the Recent Posts page without interruption.
Incidently, clicking [+ add to favourites] returns an error: Request is malformed: can't add as a favorite.
Having opened a thread to test the add as favourite functionality, I note that threads themselves do not list the tabs. They should. The tab bar should be part of the site header.
Likewise, in My Favourites there should be a (-) symbol I can click to remove the thread from My Favourites without having click All Favourites, scroll to the thread, and then click [remove].
Said [remove] is also b0rken. Oddly, despite the error message, they do both work.
It seems to me that if you're going to have [+ add to favourites], the remove link should be [- remove from favourites].
Ajax is slow. Ugh.
posted by five fresh fish at 4:48 PM on October 23, 2006
First, then, a quick spin on the page.
Report: by Jove, it takes a long time to query the db, but all seems to be right once again!
Although this means I have to have JS enabled, which is kind of a piss-off, because the message preview code is so slow that I prefer to disable it. Couldja make preview a user option, Matt?
And as I'm trying to use the Favourites thing to do a "threads I'm following" tricks:
From the "Recent Posts" tab, be able to click a (+) symbol to have a thread added to "My Favourites" without having to actually click the link to the thread and then click [+ add to favourites].
I'd like that to be done invisibly to me. This will allow me to continue scrolling down the Recent Posts page without interruption.
Incidently, clicking [+ add to favourites] returns an error: Request is malformed: can't add as a favorite.
Having opened a thread to test the add as favourite functionality, I note that threads themselves do not list the tabs. They should. The tab bar should be part of the site header.
Likewise, in My Favourites there should be a (-) symbol I can click to remove the thread from My Favourites without having click All Favourites, scroll to the thread, and then click [remove].
Said [remove] is also b0rken. Oddly, despite the error message, they do both work.
It seems to me that if you're going to have [+ add to favourites], the remove link should be [- remove from favourites].
Ajax is slow. Ugh.
posted by five fresh fish at 4:48 PM on October 23, 2006
We need a bookmarkable option to open the front page to those tabs, Matt. I have separate bookmarks for the old My Comments and Metafilter, because I do not want my front page stats updated when I check whether any of the threads I'm participating in/favouriting contain messages new to me.
posted by five fresh fish at 4:51 PM on October 23, 2006
posted by five fresh fish at 4:51 PM on October 23, 2006
The My Comments tab is great - thanks for that.
To me, there is a whole disconnect in the design now - the "traditional" MeFi look clashes with the tabs somehow and the whole thing looks wrong. Also, loading the page after clicking on a tab is slow (Win XP/Firefox 1.5.0.7 if it matters).
I assume there is a reason why the tabs only show on the main pages, but it seems counter-intuitive to have to go back to the main page to select another tab when the rest of the navigation is consistent on every page.
I do like the concept and can see that, when properly sorted, it will work well. It must be a bitch doing development work live in front of an audience of 40k people.
And, yeah, you spell favourites wrong ;-)
posted by dg at 4:51 PM on October 23, 2006
To me, there is a whole disconnect in the design now - the "traditional" MeFi look clashes with the tabs somehow and the whole thing looks wrong. Also, loading the page after clicking on a tab is slow (Win XP/Firefox 1.5.0.7 if it matters).
I assume there is a reason why the tabs only show on the main pages, but it seems counter-intuitive to have to go back to the main page to select another tab when the rest of the navigation is consistent on every page.
I do like the concept and can see that, when properly sorted, it will work well. It must be a bitch doing development work live in front of an audience of 40k people.
And, yeah, you spell favourites wrong ;-)
posted by dg at 4:51 PM on October 23, 2006
That's better -- but, there still is an added step. When you click to the new "My Comments" tab and then onto one of the threads and then wish to return to the "My Comments "summary tab, we know that the back button will return you to the default home index page. To continue exploring previous "My Comments" threads one now has to click again on the "My Comments" tab, wait for the page to be generated again. It requires extra clicking/waiting, but at least we haven't lost the functionality of being able to sort/filter one's previous commented threads. What about allowing the new tabs/hyperlinks to exist on each ("child") page, just as they exist on the default index homepage ("parent")?
posted by ericb at 4:55 PM on October 23, 2006
posted by ericb at 4:55 PM on October 23, 2006
On preview -- looks like others also agree that the tab navigation on all pages (and not just the main/index page) is a desired feature.
posted by ericb at 4:58 PM on October 23, 2006
posted by ericb at 4:58 PM on October 23, 2006
#mathowie: Should I site owner worry about greasemonkey support? I tend to think no. About the most I could do is give gm script authors some heads up
Well I'm a scriptwriter that writes scripts, some of which do things like open tabs that server-side javascript cannot do.
If you encourage scripters then they can junk up the purity of MeFi to satisfy people like:
posted by MonkeySaltedNuts at 5:03 PM on October 23, 2006
Well I'm a scriptwriter that writes scripts, some of which do things like open tabs that server-side javascript cannot do.
If you encourage scripters then they can junk up the purity of MeFi to satisfy people like:
#five fresh fish: I need to be able to Shift+Click the thread links so that they open in background tabs, loading while I continue to scan the list of active threads.To me it doesn't seem like things have settled down enough to update my scripts.
posted by MonkeySaltedNuts at 5:03 PM on October 23, 2006
Let me just say that I'm really tired of the bitching about the tabs five fresh fish. I've read your comments in a few threads now plus a thread you created about all the things I should have done and am doing wrong. They were on Ask MeFi for a week and I heard almost nothing but positive responses. Also, I design in public and I iterate, and I'm sorry if that doesn't mean things are 100% perfect when they get added to the site.
The javascript required in removing favorites and adding favorites (and flags) is because I had to remove the GETs and replace them with POSTs. The js being used there is so that they can look and act exactly like they used to, without people having to notice them.
There are plugins that let you turn on js for one site/server only and you should use them.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:48 PM on October 23, 2006
The javascript required in removing favorites and adding favorites (and flags) is because I had to remove the GETs and replace them with POSTs. The js being used there is so that they can look and act exactly like they used to, without people having to notice them.
There are plugins that let you turn on js for one site/server only and you should use them.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:48 PM on October 23, 2006
MonkeySaltedNuts, there should probably be a yahoo group/list for the mefi greasemonkey folks, so I can drop in once in a while and let you guys know when big UI changes are coming. Right now, I have no point of contact to any of the greasemonkey scripters.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:55 PM on October 23, 2006
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:55 PM on October 23, 2006
Also, I'll remove the goddamned ajax loader and make the tabs single pages on the server so everyone can shut up about how they don't like the convenience of staying on the page.
Seriously, I'm done with the feedback phase now.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:57 PM on October 23, 2006
Seriously, I'm done with the feedback phase now.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:57 PM on October 23, 2006
The javascript required in removing favorites and adding favorites (and flags) is because I had to remove the GETs and replace them with POSTs. The js being used there is so that they can look and act exactly like they used to, without people having to notice them.
Just FYI, you can perform AJAX requests using POST. I use it exclusively with my intranet applications.
Also, I think the bigger issue is that the wrong things are being ajaxificated. Small changes to state that don't require page refresh are what AJAX is all about. Adding favorites should be an AJAX request. Posting comments could be an AJAX request. Flagging comments? Definately calls for Mr. Clean…er—AJAX.
I mean, theoretically, the entire site could be nothing but stateless AJAX requests that repopulate the MeFi template. But that would be a bitch to code, and it would be annoying to use.
The web is not an app. It's just not. Things that break the user/client cycle that are expected (clicking on links, for example) don't need asynchronous requests, and in fact, would go against the established patterns a user expects. On the other hand, things that are normally POST's usually break the symantic structure of hyperlinks. Why should I have to reload a whole page when the only thing that's changed is on the server side? (Favorites, flagged comments, etc.) This is where AJAX really shines.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 6:02 PM on October 23, 2006
Just FYI, you can perform AJAX requests using POST. I use it exclusively with my intranet applications.
Also, I think the bigger issue is that the wrong things are being ajaxificated. Small changes to state that don't require page refresh are what AJAX is all about. Adding favorites should be an AJAX request. Posting comments could be an AJAX request. Flagging comments? Definately calls for Mr. Clean…er—AJAX.
I mean, theoretically, the entire site could be nothing but stateless AJAX requests that repopulate the MeFi template. But that would be a bitch to code, and it would be annoying to use.
The web is not an app. It's just not. Things that break the user/client cycle that are expected (clicking on links, for example) don't need asynchronous requests, and in fact, would go against the established patterns a user expects. On the other hand, things that are normally POST's usually break the symantic structure of hyperlinks. Why should I have to reload a whole page when the only thing that's changed is on the server side? (Favorites, flagged comments, etc.) This is where AJAX really shines.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 6:02 PM on October 23, 2006
On non-preview, sorry I missed the deadline for feedback.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 6:04 PM on October 23, 2006
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 6:04 PM on October 23, 2006
That's swell, Matt. Hope it all works out for you. Glad you seem to know what you're doing; nothing worse than leaping into implementing new technologies just to find out they're the fad of the day and have flaws and security issues as deep as the Nile is wide.
I'll go silent now.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:07 PM on October 23, 2006
I'll go silent now.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:07 PM on October 23, 2006
C_D, I already stated that yes, flagging and favoriting should be ajaxified and they will be soon (probably in this very thread).
posted by mathowie (staff) at 6:16 PM on October 23, 2006
posted by mathowie (staff) at 6:16 PM on October 23, 2006
Sorry, Matt, I missed that.
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 6:31 PM on October 23, 2006
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 6:31 PM on October 23, 2006
I'm diggin the tabs, and I'm diggin the ajax, and I'm diggin the spellcheck in ff 2.0 catchin my mistakes.
GET OFF MY LAWN
posted by disclaimer at 6:39 PM on October 23, 2006
GET OFF MY LAWN
posted by disclaimer at 6:39 PM on October 23, 2006
shamefully, I also don't knowwhat ajax is [...]
Me neither. I'd also like to point out that I'm intimidated by mathowie's new throbber.
posted by horsewithnoname at 6:56 PM on October 23, 2006
Me neither. I'd also like to point out that I'm intimidated by mathowie's new throbber.
posted by horsewithnoname at 6:56 PM on October 23, 2006
I'm intimidated by mathowie's new throbber
i will not take the thing from your hand...
posted by quonsar at 7:26 PM on October 23, 2006
i will not take the thing from your hand...
posted by quonsar at 7:26 PM on October 23, 2006
You haven't lived until you've seen my twitter.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 7:31 PM on October 23, 2006
posted by mathowie (staff) at 7:31 PM on October 23, 2006
five fresh fish : "What I really need is the ability to bookmark a thread so that it appears in the 'mycommentedthreads' list that we used to have, so that I can keep tabs on the stuff that most interests me."
It isn't a part of MetaFilter, but you can do this with the co.mments.com site. It allows bookmarking of threads on any site you'd like using a bookmarklet, and then on your co.mments.com page you can see a big list of what you've bookmarked (basically, in that sense it's like del.icio.us). It also provides an RSS feed, so you can get a feed of what you've bookmarked (again, like del.icio.us). Where it differs greatly from del.icio.us is that it checks for new comments in whatever you've bookmarked, and bumps threads with new comments to the top of the co.mments.com personal page, as well as in the RSS feed.
posted by Bugbread at 8:58 PM on October 23, 2006
It isn't a part of MetaFilter, but you can do this with the co.mments.com site. It allows bookmarking of threads on any site you'd like using a bookmarklet, and then on your co.mments.com page you can see a big list of what you've bookmarked (basically, in that sense it's like del.icio.us). It also provides an RSS feed, so you can get a feed of what you've bookmarked (again, like del.icio.us). Where it differs greatly from del.icio.us is that it checks for new comments in whatever you've bookmarked, and bumps threads with new comments to the top of the co.mments.com personal page, as well as in the RSS feed.
posted by Bugbread at 8:58 PM on October 23, 2006
mathowie writes "Should I site owner worry about greasemonkey support? I tend to think no. About the most I could do is give gm script authors some heads up, but I don't even know who all does them besides plutor and some unknown metafilthy author."
Matt shouldn't have to worry about accommodating third-party scripts/tools. If he breaks assumptions those tools rely on, it's up to the script writers to accommodate those changes.
In general third-party extensions should be written in the expectation the site can change, and written to verify their assumptions and fail gracefully if the assumed site structure or behavior has changed.
That said, none of the third-party extensions I use seem to have been broken, at least not when using them the way I use them. (Others who use them differently than I do may have noticed problems I haven't, but no mention of this has been brought to my attention.)
posted by orthogonality at 7:44 AM on October 24, 2006
Matt shouldn't have to worry about accommodating third-party scripts/tools. If he breaks assumptions those tools rely on, it's up to the script writers to accommodate those changes.
In general third-party extensions should be written in the expectation the site can change, and written to verify their assumptions and fail gracefully if the assumed site structure or behavior has changed.
That said, none of the third-party extensions I use seem to have been broken, at least not when using them the way I use them. (Others who use them differently than I do may have noticed problems I haven't, but no mention of this has been brought to my attention.)
posted by orthogonality at 7:44 AM on October 24, 2006
mathowie writes "Let me just say that I'm really tired of the bitching about the tabs five fresh fish. I've read your comments in a few threads now plus a thread you created about all the things I should have done and am doing wrong. "
Eh, this is a normal part of the design process, you shouldn't take it personally. It's exacerbated by not having a beta version of the site, or a defined test -- beta -- move to production process.
posted by orthogonality at 7:47 AM on October 24, 2006
Eh, this is a normal part of the design process, you shouldn't take it personally. It's exacerbated by not having a beta version of the site, or a defined test -- beta -- move to production process.
posted by orthogonality at 7:47 AM on October 24, 2006
Should I site owner worry about greasemonkey support? I tend to think no.
Matt, haven't you ever said "Mmm, nah, I don't feel like building that feature. If people want it, someone can whip up a greasemonkey script." I'm not saying you have nor am I going to dig to check, but it seems you've said this once or twice.
That wouldn't imply that you promise support for greasemonkey scripts, but it would suggest you are aware of it as a community-driven piece of the picture.
We don't want to see backward-compatibility with all greasemonkey scripts become a general requirement, but on the other hand, if a given site rewrite offers no significiant new functionality and breaks all kinds of greasemonkey scripts, I'd say something's wrong.
Consider breaking greasemonkey scripts a minor cost of changing the site. There should be something more than a minor gain to be had by doing so.
posted by scarabic at 8:49 AM on October 24, 2006
Matt, haven't you ever said "Mmm, nah, I don't feel like building that feature. If people want it, someone can whip up a greasemonkey script." I'm not saying you have nor am I going to dig to check, but it seems you've said this once or twice.
That wouldn't imply that you promise support for greasemonkey scripts, but it would suggest you are aware of it as a community-driven piece of the picture.
We don't want to see backward-compatibility with all greasemonkey scripts become a general requirement, but on the other hand, if a given site rewrite offers no significiant new functionality and breaks all kinds of greasemonkey scripts, I'd say something's wrong.
Consider breaking greasemonkey scripts a minor cost of changing the site. There should be something more than a minor gain to be had by doing so.
posted by scarabic at 8:49 AM on October 24, 2006
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The ability to view the front page by threads-in-which-you've-commented isn't there anymore, which is a shame, but that functionality has been superceded by the My Comments page, anyway, so it's all good.
Two thumbs up from me.
(The preceding opinion does not necessarily reflect the policies or beliefs of Wonderchicken Industries™, its subsidiaries, management, lobbyists or friendly neighbourhood Choose Life® Death Squads. Void where prohibited by turning javascript off.)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:35 AM on October 23, 2006