You eat with that mouth? May 21, 2002 6:21 AM   Subscribe

Cunt.
Fuckwit.

You eat with that mouth? You kiss your mother with that mouth? Garbage mouth!

posted by dash_slot- to Bugs at 6:21 AM (55 comments total)

[Aaaaaargh! this is supposed to be 'mefi-related! oops]
posted by dash_slot- at 6:22 AM on May 21, 2002


There is a fine and honourable tradition round these parts related to the use of the word 'fuckwit', references to which those who are less lazy than myself will hopefully link.

'Cunt' on the other hand is pretty damn boring. But boring perhaps only in the sense that the blunt instrument that hits you on the head is boring, while it might actually be a fascinating shiny instrument, yes OK blunt, but excitingly blunt, in the eyes of the wielder.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:27 AM on May 21, 2002


As it happens, the offending posters had both misunderstood the meaning of the posts they were abusing. So perhaps a little restraint and consideration before high horses and low curses are brought into play, eh, guys? (can't find the 2nd reference... sorry)
posted by dash_slot- at 6:29 AM on May 21, 2002


(Yes, I loathe and regret the decline of civil discourse here as much as the next sentient fowl, but embrace the chaos, say I.)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:30 AM on May 21, 2002


Instead of cunt, how about loathsome little hershey squirt?

I don't like the word "cunt", but I don't know why. It's been ingrained into me by my female friends over the years and I'm the sort of sensitive male who listens to the wishes of women, so there you go. But, when it gets down to it, (ignore the very lame pun), "cunt" isn't much different from "bitch", "slut", "lame-ass-motherfucker" or "cocksuckingmutherfuckinsonofabitch". They are all words used when other words would have less emphasis. I don't have a problem with epithetic (is that a word?) shock value, but it's overused. Show me a good flame any day--now that's what impresses me.

Fuckwit, on the other hand, I like. Once again, I don't know why. It's just not the same as "fuck", I guess. "Fuckwit" shows more disdain for the subject than many other words I can think of, and sometimes it's the perfect word for the situation.

Either way, those are potty mouth words that shouldn't be used lightly.
posted by ashbury at 6:54 AM on May 21, 2002


it might actually be a fascinating shiny instrument, yes OK blunt, but excitingly blunt, in the eyes of the wielder.
i was tremendously excited to find myself weilding the blunt cunt, alas i had to slink away in shame. dash_slot is correct about misunderstanding the post i was abusing. and i should have restrained myself. restraining myself is not one of the more notable characteristics of my personality, for better or worse....

posted by quonsar at 7:03 AM on May 21, 2002


That word cunt does seem to ruffle a lot of feathers (stravos' notwithstanding).

What's interesting is that the roots for etymology of cunt is either an innocent latinate (cuneus meaning 'wedge') or the equally non-offensive norse (kunta).

Whereas our most clinical word, vagina, has a real nasty etymology. Vagina is most definitely latinate, and mean, literally "sword sheath".

Meaning the word vagina comes from crass soldier slang, and cunt probably just comes from a description of the shape.

What were we talking about again?
posted by malphigian at 7:08 AM on May 21, 2002


Cunt is one of my favourite words, but I agree it should only be brought out in the most extreme circumstances. Fuckwit I dislike, it seems terribly insulting, whereas cunt can be quite cuddly.
Evaniser spoke of socking someone on the chin, now that I find truly offensive, not to mention infantile. I hope if he ever punches someone he gets kicked straight in the balls.
posted by Fat Buddha at 8:12 AM on May 21, 2002


i'm all about the fucknut.
posted by moz at 8:21 AM on May 21, 2002


Ah, "cunt" isn't so bad, depending on the circumstances.
the word, you filthy-minded bastards
posted by yerfatma at 8:24 AM on May 21, 2002


Evaniser spoke of socking someone on the chin

That someone Evan Izer spoke punching about was himself.

Moz, I've got to agree with you on fucknut. I've been annoying my friends and wife with that one for years.
posted by eyeballkid at 9:10 AM on May 21, 2002


What exactly is a fuckwit anyway?
posted by timeistight at 9:21 AM on May 21, 2002


It doesn't seem to be a priority here to make an online community which is a safe, non-abusive place for disclosing one's female gender. For all I know, we're hanging out with a few Charles Manson types here, given the tenor of the discourse. Your call, gang-- it's not my job to lecture you.
posted by sheauga at 9:28 AM on May 21, 2002


eyeballkid, what evanizer said was this: "Our resident defender of animal justice, the weak, and downtrodden was at the recent New York Metafilter party and I didn't even notice it was him until I saw the picture later! I wish I had, so I could have socked his snide little muzzle". The link contained a picture of a hairy chin and chest with a fold and mutilate name tag.
To the non initiated does it or does it not infer that he wishes to do violence to someone other than himself ?
Sorry if I was too big a cunt to get the self referential in- joke.
posted by Fat Buddha at 9:46 AM on May 21, 2002


is metafilter a boyzone?

why, yes. a little bit more every day.
posted by rebeccablood at 9:49 AM on May 21, 2002


It doesn't seem to be a priority here to make an online community which is a safe, non-abusive place for disclosing one's female gender. For all I know, we're hanging out with a few Charles Manson types here, given the tenor of the discourse. Your call, gang-- it's not my job to lecture you.

safe? it seems like everyone's a target here.
posted by moz at 10:01 AM on May 21, 2002


Just because it's a boyzone doesn't mean it has to be completely uncivil, and I think the use of that word is particularly offensive. To me, "fuck" is not a controversial word, because it has so many meanings, it only matters in context. But c--- to me, is offensive, because it seems to objectify and degrade women, no matter the context.
posted by insomnyuk at 10:37 AM on May 21, 2002


Sorry if I was too big a cunt to get the self referential in- joke

It's not really an in-joke when it's explained in detail right in the thread.
posted by eyeballkid at 10:56 AM on May 21, 2002


Sorry if I was too big a cunt to get the self referential in- joke

It's not really an in-joke when it's explained in detail right in the thread.
posted by eyeballkid at 10:56 AM on May 21, 2002


I agree with insomnyuk about the complete offensiveness of the word. for me, this is an additional layer above and beyond "everyone's a target" (which is not a good thing in and of itself).

the terms used when attacking others are very telling: are racial epithets acceptable? terms that are derogatory to women? terms that are derogatory to certain religions or nationalities? where those lines are drawn tell every reader and every participant who is welcome in a community, who is not, and what the community values.

terms that degrade any group are, to me, way, way beyond the line.
posted by rebeccablood at 10:59 AM on May 21, 2002


dash_slot-: So perhaps a little restraint and consideration before high horses and low curses are brought into play, eh, guys?

I completely agree with that recommendation, but unfortunately the people who seem prone to the very behavior you advise against probably won't heed your words. Anyhow, it seems to me that if folks can't make a point without hitting below the belt, there wasn't much of a point to be made to begin with (which sadly never stops them).

I personally abhor the word cunt since it's contemporary usage invokes the female sex in a "disparaging and obscene" sense, basically hacking a woman down to her 'nads via semantics. It's an implicitly sexist term, and I certainly fail to see how using it will help sway anyone to believe your side of an argument. I'm Chinese, too, so I would be similarly offended if people said something about Chinks, chinamen, coolies and dragon ladies since blanket statements made about any one group are just plain rude. Period.
posted by mosspink at 11:04 AM on May 21, 2002


Fat Buddha: Perhaps you should go and sit under the Bodhi tree and chill out for a while. I did my penance on the other thread and apologized for my obtuseness. I don't need raked over the coals here by your Vajrapani aspect.

And also, what I said in the earlier thread where the 'c' word was used against me: if we're not capable of raising the level of our discourse above that of a pack of misogynistic 14 year old boys, then I'm going to seriously rethink my assesment of this as a generally intelligent community. Why not just start calling each other faggots and be done with it, boys?
posted by evanizer at 11:09 AM on May 21, 2002


rcb:

the terms used when attacking others are very telling: are racial epithets acceptable? terms that are derogatory to women? terms that are derogatory to certain religions or nationalities? where those lines are drawn tell every reader and every participant who is welcome in a community, who is not, and what the community values.

to me, it seems pretty clear that this community doesn't accept the c word. it seems clear that we do have a lot of problems with a person using it, and i think it's good that we do have problems with it. we might otherwise be drowned out by the sighs and the flailing arms of those bitterly upset that we were frowning on their freedom of speech.

it's never bothered me that one or two people act up here, though. even if one or two people say the word, and mean it or not, they are the ones to suffer. and if they apologize, great, and if they understand what they did wrong, great. yet you make your own bed.
posted by moz at 11:17 AM on May 21, 2002


Right on. If we are to sling curses at one another, let's avoid the ones whose insult value is gender-specific, shall we? I've long been a defender of pottymouths everywhere---buying not for a moment that tired and self-righteous old 'argument' about filthy words being used to mask inarticulateness---but you're on your own when you resort to "cunt." If nothing else, it's pretty inept as a public flame: presumably the intent is to disparage the target of one's wrath with a comparison to those *awful nasty girly bits* but invariably the result is simply to piss off those people who are equipped with said girly bits.

Just say no. Or else the women of MetaFilter will be forced to publicly question the size of your penis. ---on the Internet, nobody knows that I *didn't* have a drunken business-trip one-night stand with you sometime back in the 4-digit user-count days.
posted by Sapphireblue at 11:21 AM on May 21, 2002


But the use of prick doesn't objectify and degrade men, no matter the context?
posted by ashbury at 11:26 AM on May 21, 2002


But the use of prick doesn't objectify and degrade men, no matter the context?

as long as we're at it, i think we should go back into metafilter's archives and root out everything bad that everyone has ever said. ever.
posted by moz at 11:47 AM on May 21, 2002


saphhireblue: ..on the Internet, nobody knows that I *didn't* have a drunken business-trip one-night stand with you sometime back in the 4-digit user-count days.

Such an allegation from you could only be flattering, though...go ahead and say whatever you want about my penis...

Personally, I'm partial to the term "donkey-raping shiteater."
posted by bingo at 11:53 AM on May 21, 2002


no go, bingo. offensive to donkeys.
posted by Sapphireblue at 11:55 AM on May 21, 2002


henceforth i shall replace the word 'cunt' with the words vomitous worm. lumbricus terrestris anti-defamation league be damned.

posted by quonsar at 12:02 PM on May 21, 2002


no go, bingo. offensive to donkeys.

You're right. And also to those scatalogically inclined. I will now go and say five hail marys.
posted by bingo at 12:05 PM on May 21, 2002


But the use of prick doesn't objectify and degrade men, no matter the context?

Nope, because it has a completely different meaning in different contexts. It can be a verb, for example.

Look, you can come up with piecemeal examples, but I'm not trying to create a general rule here, I'm just pointing out why I find the 'c' word offensive.
posted by insomnyuk at 12:07 PM on May 21, 2002


I propose whenever anyone wants to get a little profane, they just substitute the offending words with the name of their favorite sea creature.

e.g. "donkey-raping shiteater" becomes "donkey-raping wobegong shark"

This way we avoid offending the more dainty among us and learn a little something about the undersea kingdom in one fell swoop.

Bingo, by the way, is a total limpet.
posted by Kafkaesque at 12:11 PM on May 21, 2002


insomnyuk, I was thinking of the word "prick" in offensive contexts, not all contexts. Of course you're right. But the word still objectifies and degrades men, not that we care all that much.
posted by ashbury at 12:26 PM on May 21, 2002


No more genitalia references from me.
posted by Fat Buddha at 12:29 PM on May 21, 2002


Kafakaesque, are you becoming anemone of free speech?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 12:32 PM on May 21, 2002


Bingo, by the way, is a total limpet.

Spoken like a true charales.
posted by bingo at 12:34 PM on May 21, 2002


Once when playing soccer in grade school, someone shoved me while trying to steal the ball. As I fell to the ground I angrily shouted the first non-sequitir that came to mind:

"Dickbag!"

I'd never heard the phrase before, and am not sure if I've (mercifully) ever heard it since. A question for the More Dainty Among Us: Is it all right if I sometimes holler out "dickbag" if the conversation gets heated?

posted by Karl at 12:45 PM on May 21, 2002


In my time I must have used just about every possible genitalia-descriptive word as an insult and I have never been attempting to objectify or degrade a gender in general. I don't know what in general I've not been objectifying or degrading by using arsehole etc but the same thing does apply.

Nor have I ever really understood why this one word gets vilified and shunned so much more than any other. A small part of that may be because I'm from Scotland, where the phrase "doss cunt" is often a pretty affectionate term when used amongst male friends, but I like to think it's actually because it's just another word like any other.

Whatever, I'm not going to use it anywhere that it's likely to cause a stir or uproar. Like here.
posted by MUD at 12:50 PM on May 21, 2002


If, in a pinch, you can't find the right sea-creature, you can consult Captain Haddock's collection of curses (best avoiding the racist ones).

You anacoluthons and odd-toed ungulates!
posted by liam at 12:53 PM on May 21, 2002


What MUD said, just about.
posted by Fat Buddha at 1:20 PM on May 21, 2002


Dickbag

Hey, don't go using my name in vain.

I never got the whole 'Dick' joke, anyway. I mean, being me isn't an insult.
posted by rich at 1:23 PM on May 21, 2002


I'm surprised how offended people are by "cunt". I think in a way I actually find "bitch" worse because it seems to be rather specific and in a sense demotes an angry woman into a whiny annoyance. Though really none of them are necessary for our discourse around here, etc etc - maybe we can all stop being such coelacanths to each other.
posted by mdn at 1:46 PM on May 21, 2002


mdn: Coelecanth?
posted by mr_crash_davis at 1:51 PM on May 21, 2002


Srew all of you Mandarin Dragonets. I'm outta here.

(hey k, it really works!)
posted by eyeballkid at 2:05 PM on May 21, 2002


funny, he misspelled his own name.
posted by mdn at 2:51 PM on May 21, 2002


Twit, twat and twirp may very well be egg-laden goldfish, as has been discovered here.
posted by ashbury at 3:18 PM on May 21, 2002


from my extensive research, it seems that cunt as an epithet is much less of a big deal in the UK and evirons than it is in the US where people almost never use it in conversation, even as slang. However, while we're at it, I basically cringe at the word cunt when used as an insult [as opposed to, say a descriptor] as well as bitches, pussy, wuss, douchebag and any variation on the "you throw like a girl" meme. This is not to say that these words are in any way MeFi illegal, or Jessamyn-illegal, or should be, even. Just that if you use them, you seem like an idiot or a jerk to me [hurray for the bland epithet!] and I'm much likely to give a shit about what else you have to say. And I'm probably not the only gal around here who thinks so.

There are all sorts of ways to swear creatively [and I'm a fan of the word fuckwit because it means basically nothing], spend some time and get fluent with the maledicta.
posted by jessamyn at 3:45 PM on May 21, 2002


I absolutely hate it when people use the word "cunt." surely there is something more creative y'all could use. or better yet, don't call people names?
posted by mcsweetie at 4:56 PM on May 21, 2002


jessamyn cottoned to the gender-nonspecific use of the term in the UK. Here, you can hear bitch in informal conversation even occasionally in family-hour TV shows, but it's rarely used for males, and cunt is pretty much only used for the most extreme form of being a bitch -- a real nasty turn from a man to a woman. Because it's rare it still has power. The UK usage seems to be about equivalent not to being a PMS-y castrating woman, but just being a generic stupid or worthless person, male or female, and so it's used much more casually. An American equivalent might be simply you piece of shit which would anger but not touch the same nerve.

A fascinating website (which has disappeared from tripod) is CUNT: Taboo, Patriarchy, and Liberation which is described as "an indepth social history of the word 'cunt', including its development and uses". The introduction begins with a list of quotations on how vile an insult it really is, such as "Undoubtedly the most offensive and taboo of all vulgarisms or the most reviled single utterance in the English language. Once we're well into the modern history, we get comments like Not only do you never say ['cunt'] in America - you never even talk about why it is never used ... [and] In England or Ireland, the word has no power.

Similarly, fuckwit may be common as grass in England, but is a neologism to most Americans and comes across as much more crude because of its unfamiliarity.
posted by dhartung at 9:33 PM on May 21, 2002


*sigh*

Alright, I'll do it. A certain Mr Owie used the word 'fuckwit' several months ago in a request to back off on the double post callouts.

Around this time and shortly afterwards, there were many bantering exchanges in MetaTalk in which the epithet was discussed and used in a friendly and jocular fashion.

It is the 'pancakes' of MeFi profanity, and so, as I mentioned at the top of the page up there, has a history here. Of course, if you're not an avid reader of Metatalk, it just means 'fuckwit'.

Which brings up the argument that is often raised about the whole 'pancakes' and other injokes thing - that the use of such evolved insider-lingo is confusing and exclusionary to the newbie and the non-regular.

To that I say : tough.

Thus endeth the lesson.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:46 PM on May 21, 2002


I used the word "Fuckwit" in a personal conversation the other day. To me it was merely a contraction. Like saying don't as opposed to saying do not. I said; " you fuckwit! " instead of "you fucking nitwit!" and it saved syllables, as well as stopping the dolt from hitting my shoulder while I had a drink in my hand.
posted by scottymac at 11:47 PM on May 21, 2002


with a comparison to those *awful nasty girly bits*

Clearly, we have an entirely different conceptualization (almost said "conception") of those particular bits!

I think in a way I actually find "bitch" worse

I agree. It's the most cringe-inducing for me, as well. But at the end of the day, words are still just words, and sending some to the corner without any supper is pretty parochial. It's not the words one uses, it's the skill (or lack thereof) with which one uses them. I think maintaining a certain overall level of discourse is much more important than zeroing in on this word or that for special notice and villification. We're too old to titter, surely.

I'll take the sincerely profane or obscene over such juvenile euphemistic constructions as "the c word" any time.
posted by rushmc at 6:55 AM on May 22, 2002


Dhartung: I'm not sure that an accurate impression of the usage of 'cunt' in contemporary UK circles is given by the quote "...[and] In England or Ireland, the word has no power." It is also the most offensive word I know, BUT can be used jocularly: "You farcking caantt" = "you farcking basstard". I think the subtext is, I can't say to a mate "I love you", but i can demonstrate the depth, strength and resilience of our relationship, by using the worst possible epithets... but in jest.
Hmm, 'fuckwit'? Not exactly common as grass over here. But as a quicker way of saying "you fucking nitwit", it could catch on (",)

posted by dash_slot- at 7:40 AM on May 22, 2002


Personally, I think "fuckwit" is one of those too-cute-by-half insults that makes you look much worse than the person you're insulting, like "plonk!" and the other cutesy stuff used by people who spend too much time on Usenet.

As for "cunt," in the U.S. it seems like the ultimate reductive insult to use on a female -- a vicious retort that there's only one thing about her that's good for anything. I swear like a sailor when I'm angry, but I've never had the gall to drop the C bomb on anyone. "Bitch," on the other hand, has gotten me into plenty of trouble over the years.
posted by rcade at 8:35 AM on May 22, 2002


I would also like to commend dash_slot for the most amusingly worded MeTa post in recent history.
posted by jessamyn at 11:21 AM on May 22, 2002


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