My pants is missing its fish October 15, 2005 7:48 PM Subscribe
Whatever happened to quonsar?
I miss his antics
posted by thirteenkiller at 7:49 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by thirteenkiller at 7:49 PM on October 15, 2005
Dear Metafilter,
Can Quonsar come out and play?
Love,
The Internets
posted by m@ at 7:52 PM on October 15, 2005
Can Quonsar come out and play?
Love,
The Internets
posted by m@ at 7:52 PM on October 15, 2005
Seriously, go to MetaChat and either ask this same question or search the site and piece it together. I'll start your trail here.
posted by gramschmidt at 7:57 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by gramschmidt at 7:57 PM on October 15, 2005
I sent quonsar an email after this post asking if he was serious and he said yes, so I obliged him. He seems to be happily adminning away over at MetaChat. If you look really closely here at the sock puppet peanut gallery, you might spot him.
posted by jessamyn at 8:07 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by jessamyn at 8:07 PM on October 15, 2005
So all he needs to do is express an interest and come back. Well, that's nice and simple.
posted by thirteenkiller at 8:13 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by thirteenkiller at 8:13 PM on October 15, 2005
He has not had the easiest time of late. Wish him well.
posted by y2karl at 8:13 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by y2karl at 8:13 PM on October 15, 2005
He broke his leg. I had to shoot him.
posted by jonmc at 8:16 PM on October 15, 2005 [1 favorite]
posted by jonmc at 8:16 PM on October 15, 2005 [1 favorite]
Most loved/banned of all time. Indeed, one of a kind.
posted by scarabic at 8:23 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by scarabic at 8:23 PM on October 15, 2005
he probably died he's really old
posted by moift at 8:27 PM on October 15, 2005 [2 favorites]
posted by moift at 8:27 PM on October 15, 2005 [2 favorites]
I loved quonsar's posts because he would say that stuff that needed to be said, that no one else would have the balls to say.
I'm talking about the stuff that hit hard on uncomfortable truths, that sort of thing.
But his fun stuff was fun, and I liked that too but for a different reason.
posted by beth at 8:28 PM on October 15, 2005
I'm talking about the stuff that hit hard on uncomfortable truths, that sort of thing.
But his fun stuff was fun, and I liked that too but for a different reason.
posted by beth at 8:28 PM on October 15, 2005
There's a sock puppet peanut gallery? Can I be Buffalo Bob?
posted by Dr. Wu at 8:29 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by Dr. Wu at 8:29 PM on October 15, 2005
only if I can be Clarabelle
my dad was almost in the actual peanut gallery, but my uncle mike started crying and they herded them both into a back room where they had to watch the show on TV. My dad was pissed
posted by jonmc at 8:32 PM on October 15, 2005
my dad was almost in the actual peanut gallery, but my uncle mike started crying and they herded them both into a back room where they had to watch the show on TV. My dad was pissed
posted by jonmc at 8:32 PM on October 15, 2005
jonmc, my mother actually was in the real Peanut Gallery!
I'd been wondering where quonsar had gone, too. I rarely look at Metachat, so I didn't know he was there. I had noticed that Blort has been a bit skimpy of late, though.
I wish him well. I miss him around MeFi.
posted by Dr. Wu at 8:38 PM on October 15, 2005
I'd been wondering where quonsar had gone, too. I rarely look at Metachat, so I didn't know he was there. I had noticed that Blort has been a bit skimpy of late, though.
I wish him well. I miss him around MeFi.
posted by Dr. Wu at 8:38 PM on October 15, 2005
jonmc, my mother actually was in the real Peanut Gallery!
cool beans, dude. I should introduce your mom to my dad. I'm sure their respective spouses wouldn't mind, right? I miss q, too, but I think the atmosphere around here drove him away, as it did a lot of great posters. I currently only post out of pure spite to homor their memory. But I see quonsar at mecha and the occasional email. he's OK.
posted by jonmc at 8:40 PM on October 15, 2005
cool beans, dude. I should introduce your mom to my dad. I'm sure their respective spouses wouldn't mind, right? I miss q, too, but I think the atmosphere around here drove him away, as it did a lot of great posters. I currently only post out of pure spite to homor their memory. But I see quonsar at mecha and the occasional email. he's OK.
posted by jonmc at 8:40 PM on October 15, 2005
What beth said, except that quonsar is still alive and kickin'. Just not here, is all.
He's watching us, though, so be careful.
posted by dg at 8:41 PM on October 15, 2005
He's watching us, though, so be careful.
posted by dg at 8:41 PM on October 15, 2005
Miguel?
posted by blue_beetle at 8:50 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by blue_beetle at 8:50 PM on October 15, 2005
Yeah, what happened to Miguel? I miss that drunken old [say, what's an ethnic slur for portugese?].
posted by keswick at 8:55 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by keswick at 8:55 PM on October 15, 2005
I miss that drunken old [say, what's an ethnic slur for portugese?].
In New England (where I grew up), "portagee," and "porkchop," were popular.
I'm here to help.
posted by jonmc at 9:01 PM on October 15, 2005
In New England (where I grew up), "portagee," and "porkchop," were popular.
I'm here to help.
posted by jonmc at 9:01 PM on October 15, 2005
Jessamyn: I'd like a clarification on something... The deal was that his account was disabled by request, but that he could also come back by request. Is this correct?
So if he decided to return, no problem?
posted by taz at 9:03 PM on October 15, 2005
So if he decided to return, no problem?
posted by taz at 9:03 PM on October 15, 2005
pork n cheese
posted by thirteenkiller at 9:15 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by thirteenkiller at 9:15 PM on October 15, 2005
I currently only post out of pure spite to homor their memory.
posted by jonmc
Their memory is really pretty well homored thxbi.
posted by moift at 9:15 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by jonmc
Their memory is really pretty well homored thxbi.
posted by moift at 9:15 PM on October 15, 2005
metachat's people, unlike metafilter's, love him.
(except me, of course).
he's happy where he is, let him go towards the light. let him go
posted by matteo at 9:20 PM on October 15, 2005
(except me, of course).
he's happy where he is, let him go towards the light. let him go
posted by matteo at 9:20 PM on October 15, 2005
The deal was that his account was disabled by request, but that he could also come back by request. Is this correct?
When I blocked the account by his request in late July, I told him to let me or Matt know if he wanted it unblocked.
When he said he'd like me to unblock it this Wednesday, I said I wanted to talk to Matt first just to make sure everything was cool. Since then, I've been working, Matt's been working, and we haven't had a chance to connect and talk it over. I told q all this in several emails, so he knows where we stand; he has the same sock puppet options as anyone else with a banned account for now.
posted by jessamyn at 9:21 PM on October 15, 2005
When I blocked the account by his request in late July, I told him to let me or Matt know if he wanted it unblocked.
When he said he'd like me to unblock it this Wednesday, I said I wanted to talk to Matt first just to make sure everything was cool. Since then, I've been working, Matt's been working, and we haven't had a chance to connect and talk it over. I told q all this in several emails, so he knows where we stand; he has the same sock puppet options as anyone else with a banned account for now.
posted by jessamyn at 9:21 PM on October 15, 2005
Except when someone removes one he pays for and refunds the $5, right?
posted by beth at 9:23 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by beth at 9:23 PM on October 15, 2005
When he said he'd like me to unblock it this Wednesday
quonsar is SO lame
LAMER!
posted by matteo at 9:23 PM on October 15, 2005
quonsar is SO lame
LAMER!
posted by matteo at 9:23 PM on October 15, 2005
because my back pain (from the stones) is bothering me, and because I'm just not in the mood for meatspace socialization.
posted by jonmc at 9:23 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by jonmc at 9:23 PM on October 15, 2005
he has the same sock puppet options as anyone else with a banned account for now.
This has proven not to be true, I think.
posted by taz at 9:36 PM on October 15, 2005
This has proven not to be true, I think.
posted by taz at 9:36 PM on October 15, 2005
So, a four person peanut gallery is enough to unleash that middle aged fucker into a reasonable and healthy community? The day he posts is the day I leave. Abuse is too light a term for his elephant shitting pictures and hyper-indulgent shit slinging.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 9:40 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by The Jesse Helms at 9:40 PM on October 15, 2005
a reasonable and healthy community?
RAAAAWR ISRAEL SATAN FORESKIN SATAN JESUS SHARON AND BIBI PWN YAHADOOT HA'OLAM SCUM RAWR RAWR I HAVE A HARD-ON FOR NAZIS HITLER RAWKS MY COCK MY HITLERJUGEN KICKS YOUR JUIVE IN TEH TEETH HASHMADAT-AM LEBENSRAUM UNF UNF TSVA HAGANAH LE'YISRAEL TSAHAL LOLE. SHABAT SHALOM MOTHERFUCKER!
posted by Krrrlson at 9:50 PM on October 15, 2005 [1 favorite]
RAAAAWR ISRAEL SATAN FORESKIN SATAN JESUS SHARON AND BIBI PWN YAHADOOT HA'OLAM SCUM RAWR RAWR I HAVE A HARD-ON FOR NAZIS HITLER RAWKS MY COCK MY HITLERJUGEN KICKS YOUR JUIVE IN TEH TEETH HASHMADAT-AM LEBENSRAUM UNF UNF TSVA HAGANAH LE'YISRAEL TSAHAL LOLE. SHABAT SHALOM MOTHERFUCKER!
posted by Krrrlson at 9:50 PM on October 15, 2005 [1 favorite]
The day he posts is the day I leave.
Door. Ass. Don't let it hit you, etc. etc.
posted by marxchivist at 9:52 PM on October 15, 2005
Door. Ass. Don't let it hit you, etc. etc.
posted by marxchivist at 9:52 PM on October 15, 2005
I too will leave if quonsar returns. Because he killed Benji. I loved Benji. Long time.
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 9:58 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by weretable and the undead chairs at 9:58 PM on October 15, 2005
So can somebody else cop the 'quonsar' logname? Like, oh, languagehat?
posted by davy at 10:13 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by davy at 10:13 PM on October 15, 2005
a reasonable and healthy community?
posted by matteo at 10:14 PM on October 15, 2005
Sure it's Canada and no one cares, but should Canadian Jews start being afraid?one year and a half later, we all know how it ended, with the Canadian pogroms and all. reasonable, reasonable.
posted by matteo at 10:14 PM on October 15, 2005
I'm pretty sure that elephant was pissing, not shitting, so see, your whole argument collapses.
posted by soyjoy at 10:17 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by soyjoy at 10:17 PM on October 15, 2005
that middle aged fucker
sheesh, how long to people live these days?
posted by moift at 10:48 PM on October 15, 2005
sheesh, how long to people live these days?
posted by moift at 10:48 PM on October 15, 2005
I seem to remember quonsar wanting to leave because he got tired of having his comments deleted. am I wrong?
posted by shmegegge at 10:51 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by shmegegge at 10:51 PM on October 15, 2005
I don't know about letting quonsar back in. He's been banned many times and never seems to change his behavior. Over the past year he's been over 90% noise in his comments. Once in a while he's truly funny. Once in a while he has something to say, but most often it's some lame wisecrack that's about as useful as reading "first post!" at slashdot. I was getting regular emails from random users asking why he can be an ass and skirt the rules without any sort of punishment. I know he's been using half a dozen sockpuppet accounts lately but he's been posting nothing but noise and I've been shutting them down because it doesn't seem like he's even trying to post anything of worth anymore. Frankly, I think the site is better without noise and if someone wants to contribute nothing but that, I don't think they're making this a better place to be. So again, I don't know about letting him back in is a good idea. After years and years of his questionable contributions and constantly ribbing me about everything I do and hundreds of non-sequitur comments involving fish and pants and whatever he thinks is funny at the time, I don't have the patience for it anymore.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:02 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:02 PM on October 15, 2005
SHABAT SHALOM MOTHERFUCKER[s]
My brother once told me that Axl Rose said the very same thing to the crowd gathered at GnR's first Israeli concert.
posted by greatgefilte at 11:07 PM on October 15, 2005
My brother once told me that Axl Rose said the very same thing to the crowd gathered at GnR's first Israeli concert.
posted by greatgefilte at 11:07 PM on October 15, 2005
q's better as a departed legendary MeFi celebrity than as a fading luminary. This is how the world works. Don't fuck with it.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:19 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:19 PM on October 15, 2005
i'd rather read quonsar's non-sequiturs than newsfilter and metatalk about what is newsfilter and is there more newsfilter than there used to be and is the site going downhill and why is the site going downhill if it is going downhill and oh how i pine for the good old days and shut up i'll keep grinding my axes because i don't have a life and you're stupid and no you and no you and your face is stupid and is his face really stupid and yes it is and no its not and metafilter: stupid unfunny tagline etc
posted by keswick at 11:24 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by keswick at 11:24 PM on October 15, 2005
q's better as a departed legendary MeFi celebrity than as a fading luminary. This is how the world works. Don't fuck with it.
But I thought that Quonsar, in case anyone was still unclear on this, is not a light-hearted gadfly but a black-hearted, withered-souled, middle-aged asshole.
People either love quonsar or hate quonsar. It's not that hard to ignore quonsar if you hate him. A Metafilter with twenty thousand quonsars would never work, but a Metafilter without the one quonsar would not be itself. Besides, there are people far more worthy of banning than he. I vote for reinstatement. If you want to relieve the stress, ban the next person to post a Meta about what "." means.
posted by Krrrlson at 11:28 PM on October 15, 2005
But I thought that Quonsar, in case anyone was still unclear on this, is not a light-hearted gadfly but a black-hearted, withered-souled, middle-aged asshole.
People either love quonsar or hate quonsar. It's not that hard to ignore quonsar if you hate him. A Metafilter with twenty thousand quonsars would never work, but a Metafilter without the one quonsar would not be itself. Besides, there are people far more worthy of banning than he. I vote for reinstatement. If you want to relieve the stress, ban the next person to post a Meta about what "." means.
posted by Krrrlson at 11:28 PM on October 15, 2005
"But I thought that Quonsar, in case anyone was still unclear on this, 'is not a light-hearted gadfly but a black-hearted, withered-souled, middle-aged asshole'."
And your point in quoting me is what, exactly? Just trying to stir up the shit? I feel and think differently about quonsar these days, not the least because he's a different person these days. I don't think that MeFi brought the best out of him, and I don't think he's the person he wants to be when he's here (based upon something he wrote last week--not something I'm just pulling from my ass). So, really, my comment was more about what I thought is best for him than anything else. Not that it's my business, mind you.
I do get your point and even with q at his worst I generally agreed with it. He did get away with things other people didn't and of course there's really no justifying that. Still, every court needs its jester. quonsar was MeFi's.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:34 PM on October 15, 2005
And your point in quoting me is what, exactly? Just trying to stir up the shit? I feel and think differently about quonsar these days, not the least because he's a different person these days. I don't think that MeFi brought the best out of him, and I don't think he's the person he wants to be when he's here (based upon something he wrote last week--not something I'm just pulling from my ass). So, really, my comment was more about what I thought is best for him than anything else. Not that it's my business, mind you.
I do get your point and even with q at his worst I generally agreed with it. He did get away with things other people didn't and of course there's really no justifying that. Still, every court needs its jester. quonsar was MeFi's.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:34 PM on October 15, 2005
I'd be willing to let him back if he wants to contribute to conversations here, if he wants to offer helpful answers on ask mefi, and if he wants to engage others in a meaningful way -- basically what I'd define as a helpful active participant that helps make the site great. After over five years here, I don't think he was doing much of that, and he seems to have found a new home at metachat that serves him well. I know it's unfair to speak about someone that can't speak here, but I haven't heard from him about this so I don't know why he wants to come back or what his intentions are.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:34 PM on October 15, 2005
posted by mathowie (staff) at 11:34 PM on October 15, 2005
One of the only times I'll come out of hibernation...I will say this. Despite what the quonsar fans will say, he was idiotic, annoying, and useless. I don't really give a rat's ass about public opinion about this subject, generally, and he and I obviously squared off on several occasions...but I'm finally glad that he rid himself of this site. I'm sure quonsar is reading this, and I'm also quite sure that he remembers my e-mail address, but dude, get a grip, and until then, shut yourself up. Seriously.
Truth be told, I read a couple of his "confessions" on MetaChat regarding his mental health, and I wish him all the best in that regard. Obviously, given my past history here, I can attest to bad shit in real life fucking with your persona in such a way that affects every other part of your psyche. So...kudos to trying to find a healthy medium and trying to calm your life. Further, kudos to making the attempt in general, which is so hard that most people (really, it is most people) don't even bother.
But, like me in some ways, god damn was he a waste of fucking text on a screen here. Have fun at MetaChat...I hope that place brings to you the hero-worship you desired here.
posted by BlueTrain at 11:50 PM on October 15, 2005
Truth be told, I read a couple of his "confessions" on MetaChat regarding his mental health, and I wish him all the best in that regard. Obviously, given my past history here, I can attest to bad shit in real life fucking with your persona in such a way that affects every other part of your psyche. So...kudos to trying to find a healthy medium and trying to calm your life. Further, kudos to making the attempt in general, which is so hard that most people (really, it is most people) don't even bother.
But, like me in some ways, god damn was he a waste of fucking text on a screen here. Have fun at MetaChat...I hope that place brings to you the hero-worship you desired here.
posted by BlueTrain at 11:50 PM on October 15, 2005
Just trying to stir up the shit?
If you let it sit too long you'll get sedimentation. To get a smooth, uniform texture, agitate vigorously at regular intervals.
Anyway this sounds like a job for Email Man.
posted by Krrrlson at 11:50 PM on October 15, 2005
If you let it sit too long you'll get sedimentation. To get a smooth, uniform texture, agitate vigorously at regular intervals.
Anyway this sounds like a job for Email Man.
posted by Krrrlson at 11:50 PM on October 15, 2005
I miss him, and have really secretly idolized quonsar with a little shrine in the corner of the garage, but I think it is probably better that he dies a Martyr to the Cause, regardless of the circumstances, rather than a slowly whithering old fool, like I will probably be.
Let whatever sockpupet he choses make it's own personality, and retire quonsar on MeFi.
We love you quonsar, your memory will live long.
(Tell Paris, Steve and Dios your trick.)
posted by Balisong at 12:09 AM on October 16, 2005
Let whatever sockpupet he choses make it's own personality, and retire quonsar on MeFi.
We love you quonsar, your memory will live long.
(Tell Paris, Steve and Dios your trick.)
posted by Balisong at 12:09 AM on October 16, 2005
If you wouldn't mind, Jess, please point out all the sock puppets so we can examine the gallery more closely.
posted by crunchland at 12:19 AM on October 16, 2005
posted by crunchland at 12:19 AM on October 16, 2005
It's probably better that I let this one slide, but when it comes to this particular kind of drama I have trouble keeping my damn mouth shut. So here goes:
I just took a long drink of water and spat it out to get a terrible taste out of my mouth. You see, I completely agree with Ethereal Bligh about this kind of situation.
There was a time when I was one of the people who campaigned for quonsar. I was part of the Free Quonsar bit, I ran with that group and it was fun. But during the #metachat/#mefi blowup, quonsar sold us down the river and without shedding a tear. When we pointed out all the stuff we'd done for him - both on the site and off (Steve@ mailed him a gift when he was in the hospital, etc.) - his response was 'tough shit.' You'll notice that thus far #tapes (formerly #mefi) has failed to leap (or lynch) to his defense here.
He made his bed in MetaChat, and he does seem happy to lie in it when I check in every other week or so to see what's up. He killed off the vocal agitators to his return on his own, and now he's somewhere where he's loved and happy. That's a good ending, and one without another fucking shitstorm of drama on the horizon.
Let it lie.
posted by Ryvar at 12:26 AM on October 16, 2005
I just took a long drink of water and spat it out to get a terrible taste out of my mouth. You see, I completely agree with Ethereal Bligh about this kind of situation.
There was a time when I was one of the people who campaigned for quonsar. I was part of the Free Quonsar bit, I ran with that group and it was fun. But during the #metachat/#mefi blowup, quonsar sold us down the river and without shedding a tear. When we pointed out all the stuff we'd done for him - both on the site and off (Steve@ mailed him a gift when he was in the hospital, etc.) - his response was 'tough shit.' You'll notice that thus far #tapes (formerly #mefi) has failed to leap (or lynch) to his defense here.
He made his bed in MetaChat, and he does seem happy to lie in it when I check in every other week or so to see what's up. He killed off the vocal agitators to his return on his own, and now he's somewhere where he's loved and happy. That's a good ending, and one without another fucking shitstorm of drama on the horizon.
Let it lie.
posted by Ryvar at 12:26 AM on October 16, 2005
i'd rather read quonsar's non-sequiturs than newsfilter and metatalk about what is newsfilter and is there more newsfilter than there used to be and is the site going downhill and why is the site going downhill if it is going downhill and oh how i pine for the good old days and shut up i'll keep grinding my axes because i don't have a life and you're stupid and no you and no you and your face is stupid and is his face really stupid and yes it is and no its not and metafilter: stupid unfunny tagline etc
Word to yourshabat shalom motherfucker.
posted by S.C. at 12:30 AM on October 16, 2005
Word to your
posted by S.C. at 12:30 AM on October 16, 2005
There was a #metachat/#mefi blowup? Wow, I need to spend moreless time on IRC. What happened?
On preview:
Metafilter: stupid unfunny tagline etc
posted by grouse at 12:37 AM on October 16, 2005
On preview:
Metafilter: stupid unfunny tagline etc
posted by grouse at 12:37 AM on October 16, 2005
I equivocate on this subject. A bit. Whilst I understand that mathowie has been battered often by quonsar and there may have been a questionable signal to noise ratio at times (and like quonsar would be alone on that measure), the thing that kind of irks me is that he is being singled out because he's high profile and an early member. If I read mathowie right he's looking for an obsequious email with promises attached before he'll reconsider. I guess that makes it quonsar's move and I hope he'll think about it. Because I tend towards the opinion that overall his contributions have added depth to this place and that MeFi is a more rounded entity with his shenanigans than without. But it seems like an individual decree on behaviour modification on someone who posts prolifically rather than a ruling on behaviour per se, if that makes sense. That's why I feel a bit funny about it. There are plenty of other people whose sum contribution to this forum add to a negative figure. And plenty more who don't display either general compassion or express contrition for overboard infractions in the same manner I've seen quonsar do. But I fear quonsar that the continual barrage you foist on mathowie is probably not the canniest methods of engagement regarding the site architecture.
posted by peacay at 12:37 AM on October 16, 2005 [1 favorite]
posted by peacay at 12:37 AM on October 16, 2005 [1 favorite]
That's actually a good point, peacay. It does feel funny.
Just an ancillary note: I overuse linebreaks, so you can take some of mine and we'll both be square.
What happened?
Let's not and say we did.
posted by Ryvar at 12:58 AM on October 16, 2005
Just an ancillary note: I overuse linebreaks, so you can take some of mine and we'll both be square.
What happened?
Let's not and say we did.
posted by Ryvar at 12:58 AM on October 16, 2005
I equivocate on this subject.
Uh, that means you lie about it. Perhaps you were looking for "vacillate?"
posted by grouse at 2:52 AM on October 16, 2005
Uh, that means you lie about it. Perhaps you were looking for "vacillate?"
posted by grouse at 2:52 AM on October 16, 2005
Whatever happened to Leon Trotsky?
He got an ice pick that made his ears burn
Whatever happened to dear old Lenny?
The great Elmyra, and Sancho Panza?
posted by sgt.serenity at 3:27 AM on October 16, 2005
He got an ice pick that made his ears burn
Whatever happened to dear old Lenny?
The great Elmyra, and Sancho Panza?
posted by sgt.serenity at 3:27 AM on October 16, 2005
I'd be willing to let him back if he wants to contribute to conversations here, if he wants to offer helpful answers on ask mefi, and if he wants to engage others in a meaningful way -- basically what I'd define as a helpful active participant that helps make the site great.
Matt, this is the very essence of prior restraint. But MeFi is a private site and the 1st Amendment doesn't apply in any way. But if the government made a statement like this, it would be prior restraint.
As the CPUSA members used to say, "A chicken in every pot and a pick in every Trot."
Q is in the position of a subscriber who gets into a pissing match with an editor.... It's a no-win situation for everybody involved. And the editor always prevails.
The Q abides, just like the Dude.
But I don't think he is making the dispositive decisions.
posted by warbaby at 3:41 AM on October 16, 2005
I've been pissed off at quonsar before on this site... and many times it was about stuff that just about everyone else loved, so, to some degree, I understand those who have negative feelings. But I also really appreciated how he managed to deflate a whole lot of puffed up, egoistic rhetoric that, especially these days, just makes me want to spit up.
But I also worry about what all our expectations are of him, mine included. He shouldn't be locked into anyone's iconic idea of what he represents or what his role is.
Personally, I hope he does come back, though not as an official penitent... But if he does, I'd like to see him as quonsar v.2.0 (smiley here) in the sense that he will react and behave however he sees fit now, whatever that may be, and whether or not it suits anybody's notions about him or their ideas of entertainment, including my own.
posted by taz at 3:56 AM on October 16, 2005
But I also worry about what all our expectations are of him, mine included. He shouldn't be locked into anyone's iconic idea of what he represents or what his role is.
Personally, I hope he does come back, though not as an official penitent... But if he does, I'd like to see him as quonsar v.2.0 (smiley here) in the sense that he will react and behave however he sees fit now, whatever that may be, and whether or not it suits anybody's notions about him or their ideas of entertainment, including my own.
posted by taz at 3:56 AM on October 16, 2005
grouse writes "Perhaps you were looking for 'vacillate?'"
Ah yes, my dystexia.
posted by peacay at 4:10 AM on October 16, 2005
Ah yes, my dystexia.
posted by peacay at 4:10 AM on October 16, 2005
peacay, you reduce my reluctance to bring him back all the way down to basically "I can't take a coldfusion joke" when I'm saying this is about 5.5 years (over half a decade for crissakes!) of contributions and the last 6-12 months of it has been mostly noise. This site has turned me into a very patient man and I have agreed with the positive "he's our harmless jester" comments for many years, but in the past year or so the signal to noise ratio has plummeted to the point where it doesn't do any good to encourage it anymore. I didn't know about IRC wars or hospital stays or anything like that but for me it simply comes down to whether or not he wants to contribute to the site in a positive way. He's an adult and has his moments of clarity so I know he's got it in him. Maybe other people are more guilty of posting noise, but I think I do a pretty good job weeding out a lot of it, or talking to people that have a problem and making sure they can turn it around.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:23 AM on October 16, 2005
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:23 AM on October 16, 2005
Its all making sense now .....Matt is Stalin and Quonsar is Trotsky , y2karl is Alexandr Solzhenitsyn and Ethereal Bligh is Leonid Brezhnev , it's all so obvious , why didn't we see this before ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:25 AM on October 16, 2005
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:25 AM on October 16, 2005
Given the fact that the very mention of Konses name produces the most interesting meta thread in ages pretty much points to his value as a member.
and yes matt i know he was being really nippy with you but you did prevail in that one with a really good comeback eventually , i can't remember what thread it was , and i think he stopped baiting after you got the sledgehammer oot.
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:32 AM on October 16, 2005
and yes matt i know he was being really nippy with you but you did prevail in that one with a really good comeback eventually , i can't remember what thread it was , and i think he stopped baiting after you got the sledgehammer oot.
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:32 AM on October 16, 2005
I'm saying this is about 5.5 years (over half a decade for crissakes!)
Yeah, but that's not even a tenth of a century!
Matt is Stalin and Quonsar is Trotsky
I thought Matt was Elmer Fudd and Quonsar was Bugs Bunny.
Like Quonsar or not, I hope there's nobody here that doesn't understand why Matt doesn't want him in the clubhouse anymore. I love(d) his antics. But then again, they never got in the way of anything I was trying to get from this place.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 7:13 AM on October 16, 2005
Yeah, but that's not even a tenth of a century!
Matt is Stalin and Quonsar is Trotsky
I thought Matt was Elmer Fudd and Quonsar was Bugs Bunny.
Like Quonsar or not, I hope there's nobody here that doesn't understand why Matt doesn't want him in the clubhouse anymore. I love(d) his antics. But then again, they never got in the way of anything I was trying to get from this place.
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 7:13 AM on October 16, 2005
If we are voting, I vote to take him back in, with snark and all. The site has lost some of its personality and sense of humor as of late. Perhaps it is creeping commercialization. Whatever. Even his noise is often a positive contribution and it certainly is full of humor and personality. His insights are excellent, but too rarely expressed. Too bad about that. However, he kept a lot of idiots honest with his snark ray, and now it seems on some days the lunatics are running the asylum. I say take him back, full on (although we could do without the personal attacks on Matt's programming skills).
posted by caddis at 7:14 AM on October 16, 2005
posted by caddis at 7:14 AM on October 16, 2005
Quonsar is here anyway, in one form or another.
posted by Rothko at 2:55 AM PST on October 16 [!]
Speaking of sock puppets.
I wouldn't mind seeing the harmless jester of years gone by. If he is still out there. Although, not so much to bother visiting one of the many off-shoot sites.
mathowie: This site has turned me into a very patient man
Just think, q has made you a better father.
posted by geekyguy at 7:17 AM on October 16, 2005
posted by Rothko at 2:55 AM PST on October 16 [!]
Speaking of sock puppets.
I wouldn't mind seeing the harmless jester of years gone by. If he is still out there. Although, not so much to bother visiting one of the many off-shoot sites.
mathowie: This site has turned me into a very patient man
Just think, q has made you a better father.
posted by geekyguy at 7:17 AM on October 16, 2005
Sock puppets are usually anonymous. Since I have had my contact information here, my account is not a sock puppet. Asshole.
posted by Rothko at 7:19 AM on October 16, 2005
posted by Rothko at 7:19 AM on October 16, 2005
MetaFilter -- My Account is Not a Sock Puppet. Asshole.
posted by matteo at 7:21 AM on October 16, 2005
posted by matteo at 7:21 AM on October 16, 2005
Prince vs. Sony?
posted by the artiste formerly known as quonsar at 7:36 AM on October 16, 2005
posted by the artiste formerly known as quonsar at 7:36 AM on October 16, 2005
I'd be willing to let him back if he wants to contribute to conversations here, if he wants to offer helpful answers on ask mefi, and if he wants to engage others in a meaningful way ...
He very often was contributing (in the blue at least)--just in a different way. He had points to make and made them. It wasn't at all only noise and nonsense. Please reconsider.
And please consider (finally) developing some clearer guidelines and stated warnings/actions for inappropriate behavior. The inconsistency we see is unworkable with such a large, and growing, membership.
posted by amberglow at 7:53 AM on October 16, 2005
He very often was contributing (in the blue at least)--just in a different way. He had points to make and made them. It wasn't at all only noise and nonsense. Please reconsider.
And please consider (finally) developing some clearer guidelines and stated warnings/actions for inappropriate behavior. The inconsistency we see is unworkable with such a large, and growing, membership.
posted by amberglow at 7:53 AM on October 16, 2005
peacay writes "the thing that kind of irks me is that he is being singled out because he's high profile and an early member."
Q is hardly the only nail to be hit with the ban hammer.
posted by Mitheral at 8:17 AM on October 16, 2005
Q is hardly the only nail to be hit with the ban hammer.
posted by Mitheral at 8:17 AM on October 16, 2005
For some reason the Village Idiots Convention scene from Love And Death comes to mind now.
If you wouldn't mind, Jess, please point out all the sock puppets so we can examine the gallery more closely.
Amen. I wish there was a members only sock puppet registry so we could look up to see who was who.
I am so not Alexandr Solzhenitsyn. He is so much more a cutting edge high tech trend hound than I.
posted by y2karl at 8:27 AM on October 16, 2005
If you wouldn't mind, Jess, please point out all the sock puppets so we can examine the gallery more closely.
Amen. I wish there was a members only sock puppet registry so we could look up to see who was who.
I am so not Alexandr Solzhenitsyn. He is so much more a cutting edge high tech trend hound than I.
posted by y2karl at 8:27 AM on October 16, 2005
"Matt is Stalin and Quonsar is Trotsky , y2karl is Alexandr Solzhenitsyn and Ethereal Bligh is Leonid Brezhnev..."
If you only knew. You should see my eyebrow(s).
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:29 AM on October 16, 2005
If you only knew. You should see my eyebrow(s).
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:29 AM on October 16, 2005
It's the lifetime banning Mitheral - it can be viewed as quonsar being treated differently, although I realize mathowie's patience has been stretched a few times around the block. Were it to pass that there was a reconsideration then, as with all members, quonsar would be subject to booting to a timeout if his antics were again at the extreme end of the scale.
< -----------line break sponsored by ryvar---------->
There's not going to be 'behaviour laws' or the like but quonsar has been on fair notice for long enough to know what part(s) of his art to curb or sublimate in a different way. He's been (mostly) gone of his own freewill for a few months. One might view that as sufficient reason to allow him back in the saddle.
posted by peacay at 8:33 AM on October 16, 2005
< -----------line break sponsored by ryvar---------->
There's not going to be 'behaviour laws' or the like but quonsar has been on fair notice for long enough to know what part(s) of his art to curb or sublimate in a different way. He's been (mostly) gone of his own freewill for a few months. One might view that as sufficient reason to allow him back in the saddle.
posted by peacay at 8:33 AM on October 16, 2005
It's the lifetime banning
Many people have gotten lifetime bans from MetaFilter, q is just on a very short list of banned people who have consistently asked and/or campaigned to come back.
posted by jessamyn at 8:50 AM on October 16, 2005
Many people have gotten lifetime bans from MetaFilter, q is just on a very short list of banned people who have consistently asked and/or campaigned to come back.
posted by jessamyn at 8:50 AM on October 16, 2005
What does his being middle- aged have to do with anything? Why does that keep coming up?
posted by puddinghead at 8:59 AM on October 16, 2005
posted by puddinghead at 8:59 AM on October 16, 2005
jessamyn writes "Many people have gotten lifetime bans from MetaFilter"
I'm not going to take this further. It is q's game to negotiate if he wishes. And I respect the obvious fact that this is a private site, subject to Matt's rulings. I guess I was suggesting that his was an accumlation banning which seems a bit arbitrary, which is of course within Matt's prerogative. I'm sure that quonsar makes life difficult from a moderation perspective but there's a body of contribution that has had a net positive force on the quaity of the site that weighs heavy for consideration.
posted by peacay at 9:11 AM on October 16, 2005
I'm not going to take this further. It is q's game to negotiate if he wishes. And I respect the obvious fact that this is a private site, subject to Matt's rulings. I guess I was suggesting that his was an accumlation banning which seems a bit arbitrary, which is of course within Matt's prerogative. I'm sure that quonsar makes life difficult from a moderation perspective but there's a body of contribution that has had a net positive force on the quaity of the site that weighs heavy for consideration.
posted by peacay at 9:11 AM on October 16, 2005
I thought Matt was Elmer Fudd and Quonsar was Bugs Bunny.
It's funny because the real life resemblance is exactly the opposite.
posted by Krrrlson at 9:30 AM on October 16, 2005 [1 favorite]
It's funny because the real life resemblance is exactly the opposite.
posted by Krrrlson at 9:30 AM on October 16, 2005 [1 favorite]
but there's a body of contribution that has had a net positive force on the quaity of the site that weighs heavy for consideration.
I think this thead is proof that that comment is debateable.
posted by terrapin at 9:45 AM on October 16, 2005
I think this thead is proof that that comment is debateable.
posted by terrapin at 9:45 AM on October 16, 2005
What does his being middle- aged have to do with anything? Why does that keep coming up?
Perhaps because, in age, most here are practically sperm in comparison. It's like knowing a living Civil War veteran. If one internet year equals seven dog years, quonsar is Methuselah.
posted by y2karl at 10:06 AM on October 16, 2005
Perhaps because, in age, most here are practically sperm in comparison. It's like knowing a living Civil War veteran. If one internet year equals seven dog years, quonsar is Methuselah.
posted by y2karl at 10:06 AM on October 16, 2005
He stimulates discussion, whether you like it or not. Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that MeFi isn't about discussion.
posted by spaghetti at 10:16 AM on October 16, 2005
posted by spaghetti at 10:16 AM on October 16, 2005
spaghetti : "He stimulates discussion, whether you like it or not. Oh yeah, I keep forgetting that MeFi isn't about discussion."
Good thing you remembered, then, or you'd start singing the praises of bevets.
posted by Bugbread at 10:18 AM on October 16, 2005
Good thing you remembered, then, or you'd start singing the praises of bevets.
posted by Bugbread at 10:18 AM on October 16, 2005
please point out all the sock puppets so we can examine the gallery more closely.
apparently, "Jessamyn" is mathowie's sock puppet account -- he likes to pose as a hot librarian on the Internets, I heard.
whatever rocks your boat, Matt!
posted by matteo at 10:19 AM on October 16, 2005
apparently, "Jessamyn" is mathowie's sock puppet account -- he likes to pose as a hot librarian on the Internets, I heard.
whatever rocks your boat, Matt!
posted by matteo at 10:19 AM on October 16, 2005
(Note: In case unclear, the "bevets" comment was not meant to imply that quonsar was anything like bevets, in either substance or quality. It was just to point out that the implication that "person A stimulating discussion is in itself a good thing" is not necessarily true.)
posted by Bugbread at 10:21 AM on October 16, 2005
posted by Bugbread at 10:21 AM on October 16, 2005
terrapin writes "I think this thead is proof that that comment is debateable."
If you elevate the affected obvious, it will help stem the flow of bleeding.
posted by peacay at 10:23 AM on October 16, 2005
If you elevate the affected obvious, it will help stem the flow of bleeding.
posted by peacay at 10:23 AM on October 16, 2005
That implication was not present in my statement.
posted by spaghetti at 10:29 AM on October 16, 2005
posted by spaghetti at 10:29 AM on October 16, 2005
taz: I'd like to see him as quonsar v.2.0
We already have both Kwantsar and quonsar II electric boogaloo. It's true that the latter's posting history leaves something to be desired (i.e., he hasn't made a single FPP about Harriet Miers's failed marriage to Britney Spears's fetus in Abu Ghraib), but aren't these two bastard facsimiles sufficient to plug the site's quonsar hole?
posted by gramschmidt at 10:36 AM on October 16, 2005
We already have both Kwantsar and quonsar II electric boogaloo. It's true that the latter's posting history leaves something to be desired (i.e., he hasn't made a single FPP about Harriet Miers's failed marriage to Britney Spears's fetus in Abu Ghraib), but aren't these two bastard facsimiles sufficient to plug the site's quonsar hole?
posted by gramschmidt at 10:36 AM on October 16, 2005
I miss him too (all except for the gratuitous Matt attacks.) There seems to be a growing number of tedious, self important blowhards here these days and in my opinion, we need more q-style puncturing, not less.
posted by CunningLinguist at 10:36 AM on October 16, 2005
posted by CunningLinguist at 10:36 AM on October 16, 2005
spaghetti : "That implication was not present in my statement."
Sorry, then, I misread you. What were you saying, then?
posted by Bugbread at 10:45 AM on October 16, 2005
Sorry, then, I misread you. What were you saying, then?
posted by Bugbread at 10:45 AM on October 16, 2005
quonsar II electric boogaloo, helping to plug the site's quonsar hole since March 1, 2005.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 10:55 AM on October 16, 2005
posted by mr_crash_davis at 10:55 AM on October 16, 2005
I find the site is better without quonsar, but I'm not a big fan of noise here.
Over the years, I've seen several personality cults come and go. They never benefit the site. The consideration of ideas falls into the gravity well of their infamy. We're better without celebrities.
posted by frykitty at 11:07 AM on October 16, 2005
Over the years, I've seen several personality cults come and go. They never benefit the site. The consideration of ideas falls into the gravity well of their infamy. We're better without celebrities.
posted by frykitty at 11:07 AM on October 16, 2005
I'm sure I'm not the only person who's been "privileged" to receive a snotty, attacking email from quonsar regarding something posted to metafilter. This, if nothing else, proves that he's got at least one sockpuppet account (assuming the only way he could have gotten my email address is from my profile...).
So it's not like he's really "gone away" in any substantive sense. He's quite clearly reading metafilter on a regular basis-- and probably loving this thread, for what it's worth.
In the end, I suppose, the question before us is this: is it better to read his personal attacks and snotty comments on metafilter or in our inboxes?
posted by dersins at 11:12 AM on October 16, 2005
So it's not like he's really "gone away" in any substantive sense. He's quite clearly reading metafilter on a regular basis-- and probably loving this thread, for what it's worth.
In the end, I suppose, the question before us is this: is it better to read his personal attacks and snotty comments on metafilter or in our inboxes?
posted by dersins at 11:12 AM on October 16, 2005
There seems to be a growing number of tedious, self important blowhards here these days
More to the point, long-winded, tedious, self important blowhards. Man! Quonsar may have wasted text but at least he didn't waste very much of it.
posted by furiousthought at 11:17 AM on October 16, 2005
More to the point, long-winded, tedious, self important blowhards. Man! Quonsar may have wasted text but at least he didn't waste very much of it.
posted by furiousthought at 11:17 AM on October 16, 2005
all except for the gratuitous Matt attacks
seriously, why? we all (well, most of us) get attacked and attack gratuitously, why should Matt be exempted?
posted by matteo at 11:25 AM on October 16, 2005
seriously, why? we all (well, most of us) get attacked and attack gratuitously, why should Matt be exempted?
posted by matteo at 11:25 AM on October 16, 2005
Well I'm hardly objective, but I very much miss q here and I second what taz said so eloquently. Also, I am pretty much against permanant bans for anyone, except in cases of extreme maliciousness.
It's a more pallid, less colorful place without quonsar. I could more or less say that of several other long time members that have gone away too. Many of the frequent posters are what gave mefi shape. Unlike many large communities, Mefi exudes personality and character - and let's face it, that is due in no small part to some very large egos. I miss many of the vets who shaped mefi over the years. And amidst a far-ranging and colorful lot of sometimes lovable and sometimes maddening characters, q stood out on both fronts.
Yes, sometimes his contributions were noise, but I think it's quite unfair to overlook dozens of mostly excellent links which he posted. And as for the in-thread comments, I was always interested in hearing what q had to say. Sometimes his comments amused me, sometimes they annoyed me but, mostly, I enjoyed hearing from the more serious q who could turn a phrase skillfully, cut through bullshit, and offer incisive, well-reasoned commentary.
I didn't always agree with him. Sometimes his comments irritated me. I found his continual criticism of Matt both tedious and a violation of my own belief that you don't trash a host when you are a guest in their house. That being said, there are many here who have irritated me on occasion with posts or comments. Meh.
I liked q here with all the ups and downs that his presence implied. In my travels, I have always preferred the twisty, turny backroads to the smoother, more predictable highways. I could say the same of Mefi. I would much prefer the bumpy road with the occasional breakdown to preserve the site's character and charm over a more anonymous and orderly highway.
posted by madamjujujive at 11:27 AM on October 16, 2005
It's a more pallid, less colorful place without quonsar. I could more or less say that of several other long time members that have gone away too. Many of the frequent posters are what gave mefi shape. Unlike many large communities, Mefi exudes personality and character - and let's face it, that is due in no small part to some very large egos. I miss many of the vets who shaped mefi over the years. And amidst a far-ranging and colorful lot of sometimes lovable and sometimes maddening characters, q stood out on both fronts.
Yes, sometimes his contributions were noise, but I think it's quite unfair to overlook dozens of mostly excellent links which he posted. And as for the in-thread comments, I was always interested in hearing what q had to say. Sometimes his comments amused me, sometimes they annoyed me but, mostly, I enjoyed hearing from the more serious q who could turn a phrase skillfully, cut through bullshit, and offer incisive, well-reasoned commentary.
I didn't always agree with him. Sometimes his comments irritated me. I found his continual criticism of Matt both tedious and a violation of my own belief that you don't trash a host when you are a guest in their house. That being said, there are many here who have irritated me on occasion with posts or comments. Meh.
I liked q here with all the ups and downs that his presence implied. In my travels, I have always preferred the twisty, turny backroads to the smoother, more predictable highways. I could say the same of Mefi. I would much prefer the bumpy road with the occasional breakdown to preserve the site's character and charm over a more anonymous and orderly highway.
posted by madamjujujive at 11:27 AM on October 16, 2005
I'm sure I'm not the only person who's been "privileged" to receive a snotty, attacking email from quonsar regarding something posted to metafilter.
Really? He's sent me numerous complimentary ones.
posted by jonmc at 11:33 AM on October 16, 2005
Really? He's sent me numerous complimentary ones.
posted by jonmc at 11:33 AM on October 16, 2005
Really? He's sent me numerous complimentary ones.
Leaving aside the obvious for the moment (i.e. that, while your contributions are indeed valuable, of COURSE quonsar's not going to attack you via email-- he knows he can't intimidate user number 58), you nonetheless prove my larger point:
quonsar's clearly just sending his comments via email rather than posting them in-thread, so the only real question is where you'd rather read them...
posted by dersins at 11:41 AM on October 16, 2005
Leaving aside the obvious for the moment (i.e. that, while your contributions are indeed valuable, of COURSE quonsar's not going to attack you via email-- he knows he can't intimidate user number 58), you nonetheless prove my larger point:
quonsar's clearly just sending his comments via email rather than posting them in-thread, so the only real question is where you'd rather read them...
posted by dersins at 11:41 AM on October 16, 2005
well, q's never had trouble telling me when he thought I (or anyone else) was full of shit, and that's kind of what I hadmired about him. That, and the fact that his vulgarity usually had a point to it, or barring that was usually funny.
posted by jonmc at 11:50 AM on October 16, 2005
posted by jonmc at 11:50 AM on October 16, 2005
I'm disappointed to see q go. As madamejujujive says, he's made a number of good posts over the years, and was nearly as often on-topic as he was off.
And although I do agree that his pestering of mathowie was tedious and a bit rude, I somehow doubt it would have been so strident and constant if some of the many issues with the site's upkeep had actually been solved. If the server wasn't constantly failing, if the many promised new services and sections were launched, the only thing remaining for him to complain about would be comment deletion, and he certainly wasn't the only voice in that chorus of dissent.
Matt, I hate to throw this back at you, but this feels more like silencing a critic than getting rid of noise.
posted by me3dia at 11:52 AM on October 16, 2005
And although I do agree that his pestering of mathowie was tedious and a bit rude, I somehow doubt it would have been so strident and constant if some of the many issues with the site's upkeep had actually been solved. If the server wasn't constantly failing, if the many promised new services and sections were launched, the only thing remaining for him to complain about would be comment deletion, and he certainly wasn't the only voice in that chorus of dissent.
Matt, I hate to throw this back at you, but this feels more like silencing a critic than getting rid of noise.
posted by me3dia at 11:52 AM on October 16, 2005
I'm sure I'm not the only person who's been "privileged" to receive a snotty, attacking email from quonsar regarding something posted to metafilter.
I plan on being very kind, likeable and generous in person, but on occasion I will punch a random person in the face. Not to worry, though. My net effect will be positive.
posted by dreamsign at 12:21 PM on October 16, 2005
I plan on being very kind, likeable and generous in person, but on occasion I will punch a random person in the face. Not to worry, though. My net effect will be positive.
posted by dreamsign at 12:21 PM on October 16, 2005
I think what disturbs me is that q left voluntarily under the agreement he could come back when ready. And now that is up in the air. If he had been banninated to begin with I personally feel it would be different.
Let him back in and THEN moderate him if you must. THAT is the right thing to do.
Till then some of us will enjoy him where he is.
posted by konolia at 12:25 PM on October 16, 2005
Let him back in and THEN moderate him if you must. THAT is the right thing to do.
Till then some of us will enjoy him where he is.
posted by konolia at 12:25 PM on October 16, 2005
Matt, I hate to throw this back at you, but this feels more like silencing a critic than getting rid of noise.
I've said repeatedly it's not about this because I think this is a lazy explanation. I can take criticism and have taken truckloads of it for years from everyone. What I can't take are pointless non-answers in ask metafilter which he's posted many and been given numerous timeouts for and the comments he's always directing at other members. I would say most people speaking up for him are remembering the first five years of his participation and not so much the last year. As many have said here, he directed his comments at others as a way of bringing them down a notch -- I don't see that as useful as I've explained again and again why I think it's almost entirely a bad idea when someone makes a comment on metafilter that is directed at another member instead of the points they were trying to make or the issues raised. Once discussions become about people and personalities, the quality plummets. Looking over his contributions in the last few months, many were basically "user x is an idiot" or "user y and z should go fuck themselves" etc.
Anyway, I haven't heard word one about it from the man himself, so I'll await doing anything about it until that happens.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:28 PM on October 16, 2005
I've said repeatedly it's not about this because I think this is a lazy explanation. I can take criticism and have taken truckloads of it for years from everyone. What I can't take are pointless non-answers in ask metafilter which he's posted many and been given numerous timeouts for and the comments he's always directing at other members. I would say most people speaking up for him are remembering the first five years of his participation and not so much the last year. As many have said here, he directed his comments at others as a way of bringing them down a notch -- I don't see that as useful as I've explained again and again why I think it's almost entirely a bad idea when someone makes a comment on metafilter that is directed at another member instead of the points they were trying to make or the issues raised. Once discussions become about people and personalities, the quality plummets. Looking over his contributions in the last few months, many were basically "user x is an idiot" or "user y and z should go fuck themselves" etc.
Anyway, I haven't heard word one about it from the man himself, so I'll await doing anything about it until that happens.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 12:28 PM on October 16, 2005
he commented on mecha.
i get the impression that both of you would rather leave things as they are than email the other.
(which may be a resonable solution)
posted by andrew cooke at 12:38 PM on October 16, 2005
i get the impression that both of you would rather leave things as they are than email the other.
(which may be a resonable solution)
posted by andrew cooke at 12:38 PM on October 16, 2005
...I think it's almost entirely a bad idea when someone makes a comment on metafilter that is directed at another member instead of the points they were trying to make or the issues raised.
You mean like the addition of "asshole" or "jerk" at the end of one's comment? Seems like a fairly common thing around here.
posted by stirfry at 1:15 PM on October 16, 2005
You mean like the addition of "asshole" or "jerk" at the end of one's comment? Seems like a fairly common thing around here.
posted by stirfry at 1:15 PM on October 16, 2005
bugbread- One of the reasons I joined was because of q and I was trying to say that I like q and I come here for the discussion, of which he was always one of my favorite parts.
It really wasn't a very well thought out post and I don't believe that discussion in and of itself is always a good thing. I think you're right, though, that's what I ended up saying. It just isn't what I meant to say.
posted by spaghetti at 1:19 PM on October 16, 2005
It really wasn't a very well thought out post and I don't believe that discussion in and of itself is always a good thing. I think you're right, though, that's what I ended up saying. It just isn't what I meant to say.
posted by spaghetti at 1:19 PM on October 16, 2005
Well , seeing as he's not coming back we could have a wee funeral for him or something in thread , maybe a burning viking longboat or two ......maybe we could scatter his ashes in a thread somewhere.........
*begins mournful bagpipe lament *
BEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWAAAAAAAAAAAAWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEE
EEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAHHHHH.
posted by sgt.serenity at 1:25 PM on October 16, 2005
*begins mournful bagpipe lament *
BEEEEEEEEEEEEWWWWWWOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOWAAAAAAAAAAAAWEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE
OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEE
EEEEEEEOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEIOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAHHHHH.
posted by sgt.serenity at 1:25 PM on October 16, 2005
I don't know. I can't imagine that mathowie made the decision he made lightly, or simply to get rid of someone he found annoying. (I still feel like he asked to be banned, right?)
but when I think of people whose comment history shows a negative and insulting contribution to mefi history, I think of d[*], p[*], r[*], c[*] and some other people I don't want to bait into an argument, but not q. Maybe his last year or half a year was negative, but most of the people I indicated above have years of purely negative comments under their belt. Not because they disagree with the majority of mefi opinion, but simply because they respond to every comment directed at them with venom.
I honestly see matt's decision as coming from a similar place as most of the people who disagree with him. Quonsar was a big personality here, for good or ill. One way or the other personalities that large are either heroes or villains, even if their posting history is more middle-of-the-road than anyone thinks.
posted by shmegegge at 1:39 PM on October 16, 2005
but when I think of people whose comment history shows a negative and insulting contribution to mefi history, I think of d[*], p[*], r[*], c[*] and some other people I don't want to bait into an argument, but not q. Maybe his last year or half a year was negative, but most of the people I indicated above have years of purely negative comments under their belt. Not because they disagree with the majority of mefi opinion, but simply because they respond to every comment directed at them with venom.
I honestly see matt's decision as coming from a similar place as most of the people who disagree with him. Quonsar was a big personality here, for good or ill. One way or the other personalities that large are either heroes or villains, even if their posting history is more middle-of-the-road than anyone thinks.
posted by shmegegge at 1:39 PM on October 16, 2005
Spaghetti,
Understood, and thanks for the followup.
posted by Bugbread at 1:47 PM on October 16, 2005
Understood, and thanks for the followup.
posted by Bugbread at 1:47 PM on October 16, 2005
As many have said over the years: it's only a website. q takes part in other sites, and has his own. Though he does seem to want to return, what would be different? We'd have his amusing asides and his personal attacks. I have a great deal of affection for the big man, as he knows I'd hope, but I don't like seeing personal attacks here or anywhere else.
The only reason this is debatable at all is because the bannination isn't consistent. That, matt, is what needs to be addressed here more than anything right now.
Moderation doesn't just mean 'reasonableness', in the UK it also means 'levelling', as in where essays are adjudicated & compared so as to ensure equal treatment. More timeouts for persistent 'noise' making, for personal abuse particularly, would defuse the resentment many have about q's treatment (for example).
posted by dash_slot- at 2:10 PM on October 16, 2005
The only reason this is debatable at all is because the bannination isn't consistent. That, matt, is what needs to be addressed here more than anything right now.
Moderation doesn't just mean 'reasonableness', in the UK it also means 'levelling', as in where essays are adjudicated & compared so as to ensure equal treatment. More timeouts for persistent 'noise' making, for personal abuse particularly, would defuse the resentment many have about q's treatment (for example).
posted by dash_slot- at 2:10 PM on October 16, 2005
d[*], p[*], r[*], c[*] and some other people I don't want to bait into an argument,
If you don't want to bait, let me undermine you.
shmegegge thinks that dios, ParisParamus, Rothko, and cleardawn are trolls!!!
posted by Kwantsar at 2:12 PM on October 16, 2005
If you don't want to bait, let me undermine you.
shmegegge thinks that dios, ParisParamus, Rothko, and cleardawn are trolls!!!
posted by Kwantsar at 2:12 PM on October 16, 2005
Well, that's a fair spread across the left-right spectrum, at least.
posted by dash_slot- at 2:20 PM on October 16, 2005
posted by dash_slot- at 2:20 PM on October 16, 2005
Would you'll like to eat a nice big bowl of black pepper with a spoon?
posted by Mr T at 2:46 PM on October 16, 2005
posted by Mr T at 2:46 PM on October 16, 2005
The day he posts is the day I leave.
Good enough reason to let him back in right there.
Matt, I totally understand why you're fed up with him, but I join those who feel MeFi just isn't MeFi without him. (I particularly agree with madamjujujive.) Like almost everybody, I've gotten snarked by him, and like jonmc and I'm sure others, I've gotten some very nice e-mails from him, and all I can say is that his presence would make me feel that little bit better about hanging around here. Take it for what it's worth, which isn't much, since you're the one who has to deal with the turds he occasionally flings.
posted by languagehat at 2:55 PM on October 16, 2005
Good enough reason to let him back in right there.
Matt, I totally understand why you're fed up with him, but I join those who feel MeFi just isn't MeFi without him. (I particularly agree with madamjujujive.) Like almost everybody, I've gotten snarked by him, and like jonmc and I'm sure others, I've gotten some very nice e-mails from him, and all I can say is that his presence would make me feel that little bit better about hanging around here. Take it for what it's worth, which isn't much, since you're the one who has to deal with the turds he occasionally flings.
posted by languagehat at 2:55 PM on October 16, 2005
It's a more pallid, less colorful place without quonsar. I could more or less say that of several other long time members that have gone away too. Many of the frequent posters are what gave mefi shape. Unlike many large communities, Mefi exudes personality and character - and let's face it, that is due in no small part to some very large egos.
I think "'Filtering for dollars" post is a pretty good example of the shape and personality that some of the older members, including quonsar, imparted to this place. And quite frankly, I'm much rather they move on to meta chat or some other place and exude the color there.
posted by c13 at 3:20 PM on October 16, 2005
I think "'Filtering for dollars" post is a pretty good example of the shape and personality that some of the older members, including quonsar, imparted to this place. And quite frankly, I'm much rather they move on to meta chat or some other place and exude the color there.
posted by c13 at 3:20 PM on October 16, 2005
You will miss us all when we are gone, c13. And unlike a few years past, we now all have places to go.
posted by konolia at 3:23 PM on October 16, 2005
posted by konolia at 3:23 PM on October 16, 2005
A lazy sampling of Quonsar comments from the last year:
Awesome Quonsar: 1 2 3 4 (especially) and 5
I was going to follow the above with a list of Asshole Quonsar posts, but didn't find anything particularly bad, even in the most recent two pages of his MetaTalk comments. Which surprised me because I thought I remembered a lot of crap as Matt referred to, but I didn't find it. I did find rude and almost obsessive sniping at Matt and Jessamyn, but nothing offensive. Maybe someone with more patience or a better memory could show us the some of the "noise" Matt is complaining about?
posted by LarryC at 3:26 PM on October 16, 2005
Awesome Quonsar: 1 2 3 4 (especially) and 5
I was going to follow the above with a list of Asshole Quonsar posts, but didn't find anything particularly bad, even in the most recent two pages of his MetaTalk comments. Which surprised me because I thought I remembered a lot of crap as Matt referred to, but I didn't find it. I did find rude and almost obsessive sniping at Matt and Jessamyn, but nothing offensive. Maybe someone with more patience or a better memory could show us the some of the "noise" Matt is complaining about?
posted by LarryC at 3:26 PM on October 16, 2005
I suspect Matt has deleted the really bad ones.
posted by languagehat at 3:29 PM on October 16, 2005
posted by languagehat at 3:29 PM on October 16, 2005
I miss quonsar too, for the reasons languagehat and madamjujujive put so nicely. I hope he gets back in, if he still wants too.
posted by homunculus at 3:40 PM on October 16, 2005
posted by homunculus at 3:40 PM on October 16, 2005
As much as I hate to say it, if I was in mathowie's shoes, I would probably ban quonsar too. Not because he has a net negative impact on the site, because I don't think he does (his gross negative input is certainly no worse than many other users who don't have the positive input to balance it out), but simply because of the constant jibes about the unreliability of the site over the last year or so. I can imagine that that would get old pretty quick. I would have banned a lot of others though, if only for the sake of consistency.
The big difference that I see with what quonsar says, though, is that he is usually right. The constant jibes about ColdFusion would piss me off no end, mostly because I would know that I was in the wrong - the site was unacceptably unreliable for something so large and still is*. The constant comments that "I am working on it and it seems much better now" with no noticeable improvement seemed to me like a kid with his fingers in his ears saying "I can't hear you", when it was clear to everyone else that nothing much was changing (although it has gradually got better over time).
If it is a bannable offence to direct comments at another member, we should all be banned. I agree that it is usually bad form to address the person rather than the issue, but sometimes the person becomes the issue and this is often where we saw quonsar at his best – taking someone down a peg when it was needed. Over time, I have seen that this has become more of a problem and some of his comments have become more personal than they should have. But still, I believe that his net contribution is far greater than many other users.
The comment that this “feels more like silencing a critic than getting rid of noise” seems to fit well to me. It is completely mathowie’s choice to do so, of course, and I have already said that I would probably do the same. Still, it feels wrong for some reason.
The one thing that only mathowie knows, of course, is how much of quonsar’s content was deleted. If, to pluck a figure out of my arse, 50% of his comments were deleted, the signal to noise ratio would obviously be unacceptable and a ban is completely in order. I would be surprised if this was the case, though.
In reality of course, it matters not a speck of shit on the bottom of a shoe what any of us feel about this – mathowie will (and should) make his decision based on his own judgement.
*Fortunately, I have developed a habit of copying text in the comment box before trying to post it, or I would have lost this particular comment twice when trying to preview it.
posted by dg at 4:36 PM on October 16, 2005
The big difference that I see with what quonsar says, though, is that he is usually right. The constant jibes about ColdFusion would piss me off no end, mostly because I would know that I was in the wrong - the site was unacceptably unreliable for something so large and still is*. The constant comments that "I am working on it and it seems much better now" with no noticeable improvement seemed to me like a kid with his fingers in his ears saying "I can't hear you", when it was clear to everyone else that nothing much was changing (although it has gradually got better over time).
If it is a bannable offence to direct comments at another member, we should all be banned. I agree that it is usually bad form to address the person rather than the issue, but sometimes the person becomes the issue and this is often where we saw quonsar at his best – taking someone down a peg when it was needed. Over time, I have seen that this has become more of a problem and some of his comments have become more personal than they should have. But still, I believe that his net contribution is far greater than many other users.
The comment that this “feels more like silencing a critic than getting rid of noise” seems to fit well to me. It is completely mathowie’s choice to do so, of course, and I have already said that I would probably do the same. Still, it feels wrong for some reason.
The one thing that only mathowie knows, of course, is how much of quonsar’s content was deleted. If, to pluck a figure out of my arse, 50% of his comments were deleted, the signal to noise ratio would obviously be unacceptable and a ban is completely in order. I would be surprised if this was the case, though.
In reality of course, it matters not a speck of shit on the bottom of a shoe what any of us feel about this – mathowie will (and should) make his decision based on his own judgement.
*Fortunately, I have developed a habit of copying text in the comment box before trying to post it, or I would have lost this particular comment twice when trying to preview it.
posted by dg at 4:36 PM on October 16, 2005
Perhaps, konolia. But it depends on whether its the two-three year old version of you (all), when I first started coming to this site, or the more recent one. I already miss the former, the latter--no. I've lost a lot of respect for a lot of members here after that post I alluded to.
Besides, like the old communists were fond of saying, there are no irreplaceable people...
posted by c13 at 4:40 PM on October 16, 2005
Besides, like the old communists were fond of saying, there are no irreplaceable people...
posted by c13 at 4:40 PM on October 16, 2005
The one thing that only mathowie knows, of course, is how much of quonsar’s content was deleted.
I show 203 deleted comments from q in the past year. That's a shitload.
Anyway, I now understand why others say this is unfair. He left on his own accord but can't come back, and yeah that isn't consistent or seemingly fair. To be honest, this is more like a girlfriend going off to college and promising that we'll still be hot and heavy when she gets back in six months and lo and behold, six months later I've moved on. So what really motivated me thinking twice about reinstating q is that I enjoyed the silence the past few months. No weekly emails from people asking me why he gets to be an asshole and others don't. No more waking up to a crapfest in MetaTalk that he took part in egging people on. I guess I enjoyed the silence.
So when I say that I'd be willing to have him back if he wants to be a good member and turn over a new leaf, it's because I've exchanged emails with him in the past and he's been a fine upstanding citizen and I've seen him be perfectly nice and cordial with people on metachat and even in #mefi but in my mind his contributions here aren't like that and I've long wondered why he chooses to be an asshole so often here, and a nice guy in email or other places. He's got his moments of clarity to be sure, it'd be nice if that became the norm. I've had enough sleepless nights worrying about what havoc a few bombastic personalities are commiting while I sleep.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 4:51 PM on October 16, 2005
I show 203 deleted comments from q in the past year. That's a shitload.
Anyway, I now understand why others say this is unfair. He left on his own accord but can't come back, and yeah that isn't consistent or seemingly fair. To be honest, this is more like a girlfriend going off to college and promising that we'll still be hot and heavy when she gets back in six months and lo and behold, six months later I've moved on. So what really motivated me thinking twice about reinstating q is that I enjoyed the silence the past few months. No weekly emails from people asking me why he gets to be an asshole and others don't. No more waking up to a crapfest in MetaTalk that he took part in egging people on. I guess I enjoyed the silence.
So when I say that I'd be willing to have him back if he wants to be a good member and turn over a new leaf, it's because I've exchanged emails with him in the past and he's been a fine upstanding citizen and I've seen him be perfectly nice and cordial with people on metachat and even in #mefi but in my mind his contributions here aren't like that and I've long wondered why he chooses to be an asshole so often here, and a nice guy in email or other places. He's got his moments of clarity to be sure, it'd be nice if that became the norm. I've had enough sleepless nights worrying about what havoc a few bombastic personalities are commiting while I sleep.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 4:51 PM on October 16, 2005
and all I can say is that his presence would make me feel that little bit better about hanging around here.
Good enough reason to not let him back in right there.
:)
(hello nasty!)
me, i hope that both Sen Helms and L-Hat stick around. about quonsar, I don't know -- it's really between Matt and q, it's all about how much abuse Matt is willing to take from q, because you know that the abuse will be there. if it were up to me I'd say keep q in, but then i'm not the one who has to clean up after him, no one here except Matt (and Jessamyn) is. and I admit the fish in the pants thing made me laugh, so I may be biased. and anyway I'm
a) easily amused
b) this is not my native language, so feel free to disregard, maybe q is really not funny for a native English speaker
posted by matteo at 4:56 PM on October 16, 2005
Good enough reason to not let him back in right there.
:)
(hello nasty!)
me, i hope that both Sen Helms and L-Hat stick around. about quonsar, I don't know -- it's really between Matt and q, it's all about how much abuse Matt is willing to take from q, because you know that the abuse will be there. if it were up to me I'd say keep q in, but then i'm not the one who has to clean up after him, no one here except Matt (and Jessamyn) is. and I admit the fish in the pants thing made me laugh, so I may be biased. and anyway I'm
a) easily amused
b) this is not my native language, so feel free to disregard, maybe q is really not funny for a native English speaker
posted by matteo at 4:56 PM on October 16, 2005
He left on his own accord but can't come back, and yeah that isn't consistent or seemingly fair.
Anyway, I haven't heard word one about it from the man himself, so I'll await doing anything about it until that happens.
Anticipating much?
posted by c13 at 4:57 PM on October 16, 2005
Anyway, I haven't heard word one about it from the man himself, so I'll await doing anything about it until that happens.
Anticipating much?
posted by c13 at 4:57 PM on October 16, 2005
show 203 deleted comments from q in the past year
I take it all back. you'd be nuts to take quonsar back
posted by matteo at 4:57 PM on October 16, 2005
I take it all back. you'd be nuts to take quonsar back
posted by matteo at 4:57 PM on October 16, 2005
Ahem... I guess its not a very good idea to talk on the phone and type...
posted by c13 at 5:02 PM on October 16, 2005
posted by c13 at 5:02 PM on October 16, 2005
203 deleted comments is, indeed, a shitload. My vote would still be to keep him around (if I had a vote or any other kind of say in this, of course), but that is an emotional decision, not one based on any sort of logic.
Just a thought - as a guy running a large community Web site in his spare time, you get to make inconsistent decisions and generally run things any way you like and nobody really has the right to complain. With your imminent move to making this your "real" job, people are going to expect better and will have way less sympathy for decisions that don't make sense. Keep quonsar out, by all means, but be prepared to require all of us to behave as well. Some of the nastiness I see lately, particularly here in MeTa, makes quonsar look like a pussy by comparison. If, in sacrificing quonsar, we ended up with better standards overall, it would be worth it. He can always come back under another identity, after all - the people who are being driven away by the arseholes won't be back.
posted by dg at 5:19 PM on October 16, 2005
Just a thought - as a guy running a large community Web site in his spare time, you get to make inconsistent decisions and generally run things any way you like and nobody really has the right to complain. With your imminent move to making this your "real" job, people are going to expect better and will have way less sympathy for decisions that don't make sense. Keep quonsar out, by all means, but be prepared to require all of us to behave as well. Some of the nastiness I see lately, particularly here in MeTa, makes quonsar look like a pussy by comparison. If, in sacrificing quonsar, we ended up with better standards overall, it would be worth it. He can always come back under another identity, after all - the people who are being driven away by the arseholes won't be back.
posted by dg at 5:19 PM on October 16, 2005
I cannot understand ANYONE having sleepless nights over anything that is, after all, only a website.
I never took any of q's stuff seriously even when aimed directly at me. Not sure why, but I guess it's because it made me laugh.
If there is a rule here that no one can be nasty to anyone else, fine. But as a mom this feels more like putting up with the kids till they do one little thing that is the straw that broke the camel's back-then out comes the screaming and the spanking spoon.
Now that I think of it, I can actually understand THAT.
posted by konolia at 5:23 PM on October 16, 2005
I never took any of q's stuff seriously even when aimed directly at me. Not sure why, but I guess it's because it made me laugh.
If there is a rule here that no one can be nasty to anyone else, fine. But as a mom this feels more like putting up with the kids till they do one little thing that is the straw that broke the camel's back-then out comes the screaming and the spanking spoon.
Now that I think of it, I can actually understand THAT.
posted by konolia at 5:23 PM on October 16, 2005
I cannot understand ANYONE having sleepless nights over anything that is, after all, only a website
Try being in charge of one. And let me remind you that connected to your behavior on this site I got phonecalls from people close to you. Phonecalls in the real world about what is after all, only a website, is pretty freaky, no?
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:31 PM on October 16, 2005
Try being in charge of one. And let me remind you that connected to your behavior on this site I got phonecalls from people close to you. Phonecalls in the real world about what is after all, only a website, is pretty freaky, no?
posted by mathowie (staff) at 5:31 PM on October 16, 2005
Well, it was my husband, and we are both in agreement how freaky that was. Can't do a thing with that man.
posted by konolia at 5:33 PM on October 16, 2005
posted by konolia at 5:33 PM on October 16, 2005
Try being in charge of one
Well, matt, you've created something that, for better or worse, has taken on a lif eof it's own. What can I tell ya, man.
posted by jonmc at 5:34 PM on October 16, 2005
Well, matt, you've created something that, for better or worse, has taken on a lif eof it's own. What can I tell ya, man.
posted by jonmc at 5:34 PM on October 16, 2005
There's a difference between shitting in the lobby to draw attention to the ugly carpet, and shitting in the lobby to draw attention to the fact that you're drawing attention to the ugly carpet.
Put another way: Quonsar is not Stavros. 'Nuff said.
posted by lodurr at 5:39 PM on October 16, 2005
Put another way: Quonsar is not Stavros. 'Nuff said.
posted by lodurr at 5:39 PM on October 16, 2005
Every town needs a curmudgeon in its square. In the mid-90s, I was trekking through Seattle as a wandering stoned twentysomething, and came across a man hanging outside the Safeway in Capitol Hill. He wore frayed fatigues and a plastic fried egg around his neck, and was talking to a Rastaman about collecting fine Italian art. He looked a fright. Yet several thousand miles from home, I felt instantly more secure in this strange city. "Aha!," I thought, "this is what makes this place a community; it's the ability to be an individual, no matter how crazy you are." Then I went off to be stoned elsewhere and didn't think that image would keep recurring throughout my life.
Metafilter ain't a city on a hill, much less a hodgepodge of hoboes and drifters and punkers around a supermarket. But we are a motley collection of real live humans who bounce ideas off our virtual heads, sometimes with the force of bricks, sometimes with the slime of muck. But there are those who rattle us and piss us off because they passionately believe that we should think and feel a little more, and savor the right to do it. I think Q is one of those.
Quonsar, a brilliant curmudgeon, was the first Mefite to drop an email from my profile way back when when there was a mild shitstorm over a post I'd made as a noob. I won't forget the encouragement he gave to keep going, despite the pissants and the ninnies, to say what I felt and make the place interesting.
Q fills a vital role here. Yes, he makes noise, but it's pure noise, not disguised in political invective and smarmy snark. But he also posts some really meaningful stuff, and if we were actually to see ourselves as a community, we'd see the need of folks like Quonsar; to keep us on our toes and off our complacent duffs.
posted by moonbird at 5:40 PM on October 16, 2005
Metafilter ain't a city on a hill, much less a hodgepodge of hoboes and drifters and punkers around a supermarket. But we are a motley collection of real live humans who bounce ideas off our virtual heads, sometimes with the force of bricks, sometimes with the slime of muck. But there are those who rattle us and piss us off because they passionately believe that we should think and feel a little more, and savor the right to do it. I think Q is one of those.
Quonsar, a brilliant curmudgeon, was the first Mefite to drop an email from my profile way back when when there was a mild shitstorm over a post I'd made as a noob. I won't forget the encouragement he gave to keep going, despite the pissants and the ninnies, to say what I felt and make the place interesting.
Q fills a vital role here. Yes, he makes noise, but it's pure noise, not disguised in political invective and smarmy snark. But he also posts some really meaningful stuff, and if we were actually to see ourselves as a community, we'd see the need of folks like Quonsar; to keep us on our toes and off our complacent duffs.
posted by moonbird at 5:40 PM on October 16, 2005
Yes, he makes noise, but it's pure noise, not disguised in political invective and smarmy snark.
Interesting way to put it - he does it to illuminate rather than to persuade.
posted by dg at 5:46 PM on October 16, 2005
Interesting way to put it - he does it to illuminate rather than to persuade.
posted by dg at 5:46 PM on October 16, 2005
Get a life Matt. q helped you make this site what it is today. Putting him out would be morally wrong, despite his personal attacks on you (although I think he ought to agree to keep those private into the future). You seemed to be almost as upset with Miguel at first, but again he took your site to the next level. Do what you want; it is your site after all. However, if you freeze out this guy you will look weak. Sorry. I love this site, love you, and am very impressed with your generally solid judgement, but you look bad here. You are taking this one far too personally.
posted by caddis at 5:47 PM on October 16, 2005
posted by caddis at 5:47 PM on October 16, 2005
Well I came in at an apropo moment then...
Well, I wrote the following an hour ago and then the lights went out for a while, so--
albeit it is from before the 203 comments revelation
------------------
I was going to follow the above with a list of Asshole Quonsar posts, but didn't find anything particularly bad, even in the most recent two pages of his MetaTalk comments.
This is the case with anyone--when I first got mad at dhoyt way back when, I looked at his output and apart from a high count in the occasional flame out threat, he said nothing exceptionable. He'd written a lot of comments to posts of no interest to me. So, I think some of this is different interests--you don't remember what you don't see.
You do tend to remember what someone says in a hot button thread, on the other hand. So all people recall are the worst things someone has said or, more likely, simply the tone of contempt and derision in which it was written and that's it--that's who that person is for them forever. It becomes the filter through which every subsequent comment is viewed.
This is why people have go after dios or dhoyt a lot--they remember some flameout and the least little thing becomes intolerable and the response is all out of proportion. Never forgive and never forget seems to be the unwritten rule sometimes. Then again, it's like with Gregory Peck in the Gunfighter--somebody always wants to the young punk who guns Jimmy Ringo down. That's not the case here, however. It's more the memory of the worst at work. Nobody likes being dogged by someone in thread after thread.
Maybe a tone it down treaty--no bitching, ixnay on personal attacks , no ragging on the boss and no complaining about getting comments yanked for lapses. Then come on home. Continuity and a common past should count for something in a community or so one would think.
posted by y2karl at 5:51 PM on October 16, 2005
Well, I wrote the following an hour ago and then the lights went out for a while, so--
albeit it is from before the 203 comments revelation
------------------
I was going to follow the above with a list of Asshole Quonsar posts, but didn't find anything particularly bad, even in the most recent two pages of his MetaTalk comments.
This is the case with anyone--when I first got mad at dhoyt way back when, I looked at his output and apart from a high count in the occasional flame out threat, he said nothing exceptionable. He'd written a lot of comments to posts of no interest to me. So, I think some of this is different interests--you don't remember what you don't see.
You do tend to remember what someone says in a hot button thread, on the other hand. So all people recall are the worst things someone has said or, more likely, simply the tone of contempt and derision in which it was written and that's it--that's who that person is for them forever. It becomes the filter through which every subsequent comment is viewed.
This is why people have go after dios or dhoyt a lot--they remember some flameout and the least little thing becomes intolerable and the response is all out of proportion. Never forgive and never forget seems to be the unwritten rule sometimes. Then again, it's like with Gregory Peck in the Gunfighter--somebody always wants to the young punk who guns Jimmy Ringo down. That's not the case here, however. It's more the memory of the worst at work. Nobody likes being dogged by someone in thread after thread.
Maybe a tone it down treaty--no bitching, ixnay on personal attacks , no ragging on the boss and no complaining about getting comments yanked for lapses. Then come on home. Continuity and a common past should count for something in a community or so one would think.
posted by y2karl at 5:51 PM on October 16, 2005
Continuity and a common past should count for something in a community or so one would think.
Well said.
posted by dg at 5:57 PM on October 16, 2005
Well said.
posted by dg at 5:57 PM on October 16, 2005
Not because I think he's an entirely wonderful guy--he's not. He can get sadistic with people and no one appointed him ego puncher but himself. And the schtick can get old. On the other hand, he's said some incredibly open and moving things here in the best oh, the humanity sense. I can understand your ambivalence. It still comes out positives over negatives for me.
posted by y2karl at 5:58 PM on October 16, 2005
posted by y2karl at 5:58 PM on October 16, 2005
konolia writes "I cannot understand ANYONE having sleepless nights over anything that is, after all, only a website."
Despite school yard wisdom words can hurt and anger, either of which can disturb one's sleep.
posted by Mitheral at 6:02 PM on October 16, 2005
Despite school yard wisdom words can hurt and anger, either of which can disturb one's sleep.
posted by Mitheral at 6:02 PM on October 16, 2005
Metafilter: the site was unacceptably unreliable for something so large and still is.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2005
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:09 PM on October 16, 2005
On the other hand, he's said some incredibly open and moving things here in the best oh, the humanity sense. I can understand your ambivalence. It still comes out positives over negatives for me.
I agree, but: 203 deleted comments, man. I know I wouldn't clean up all that crap, not even to keep Thomas Pynchon in. that's an administrator's nightmare, I had no idea there were so many
posted by matteo at 6:12 PM on October 16, 2005
I agree, but: 203 deleted comments, man. I know I wouldn't clean up all that crap, not even to keep Thomas Pynchon in. that's an administrator's nightmare, I had no idea there were so many
posted by matteo at 6:12 PM on October 16, 2005
Maybe I spoke too soon. I've thought more about this, and realized that obliqueness has its place, and this might not be it.
You folks want Q back, fine. He's no skin off my nose. But don't romanticize him.
I've heard the "brilliant curmudgeon" thing before, about a lot of people. Aside from the fact that it's usually a load of crap ("brilliant", like "genius", being a badly overused term, and style mattering so much more these days than substance), there's invariably a whole line of them waiting to step in. We breed them in this attention-culture -- breed them, train them, condition them, addict them. We invest certain of them with some special significance, and sure, sometimes they rise to the occasion, but mostly -- they're interchangeable until somebody feeds them.
I honestly don't know what y'all have been smoking that you think Quonsar -- or any other habitual contrarian (or orthogonarian, for that matter) -- is somehow "brilliant" for slapping goatse and pissing elephants and scatalogically-tinged "lamplight" into the threads. Sure, he was clever (probably still is), but he's also mean and vicious and has a really amazingly exaggerated sense of entitlement. Y'all who know him and want to tell me otherwise, be my guest; I only know him through his actions here. And that is, after all, what matters.
Personally, I have no stake in it. I know better than to tangle with the guy who's wearing a fried egg around his neck. I know that guy's very likely got few boundaries he's unwilling to cross and will not fight fair -- which is to say, will not behave like a social human being.
posted by lodurr at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2005
You folks want Q back, fine. He's no skin off my nose. But don't romanticize him.
I've heard the "brilliant curmudgeon" thing before, about a lot of people. Aside from the fact that it's usually a load of crap ("brilliant", like "genius", being a badly overused term, and style mattering so much more these days than substance), there's invariably a whole line of them waiting to step in. We breed them in this attention-culture -- breed them, train them, condition them, addict them. We invest certain of them with some special significance, and sure, sometimes they rise to the occasion, but mostly -- they're interchangeable until somebody feeds them.
I honestly don't know what y'all have been smoking that you think Quonsar -- or any other habitual contrarian (or orthogonarian, for that matter) -- is somehow "brilliant" for slapping goatse and pissing elephants and scatalogically-tinged "lamplight" into the threads. Sure, he was clever (probably still is), but he's also mean and vicious and has a really amazingly exaggerated sense of entitlement. Y'all who know him and want to tell me otherwise, be my guest; I only know him through his actions here. And that is, after all, what matters.
Personally, I have no stake in it. I know better than to tangle with the guy who's wearing a fried egg around his neck. I know that guy's very likely got few boundaries he's unwilling to cross and will not fight fair -- which is to say, will not behave like a social human being.
posted by lodurr at 6:15 PM on October 16, 2005
Well, he'd have to wear an ankle bracelet and take weekly drug tests for sure.
posted by y2karl at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2005
posted by y2karl at 6:20 PM on October 16, 2005
Of course, unless Matt keeps all deleted comments in a conveniently-accessible shitfile*, none of will know exactly what the content of q's 203 deleted comments are. Based on my imperfect memories of the ongoing quonflict over moderation, I wouldn't be surprised if 25-50% of them were complaints about previously deleted comments, his and other people's. That would reflect just as badly on Matt than on quonsar.
Recently, I seriously considered asking for a "voluntary bannination" myself; still not sure if I'm glad I didn't.
*in a storage locker with the Lost Ark and Bush's real military records.
posted by wendell at 6:58 PM on October 16, 2005
Recently, I seriously considered asking for a "voluntary bannination" myself; still not sure if I'm glad I didn't.
*in a storage locker with the Lost Ark and Bush's real military records.
posted by wendell at 6:58 PM on October 16, 2005
I honestly don't know what y'all have been smoking that you think Quonsar -- or any other habitual contrarian (or orthogonarian, for that matter) -- is somehow "brilliant" for slapping goatse and pissing elephants and scatalogically-tinged "lamplight" into the threads.
Well, maybe some of us would rather hear eloquent negation than hollow hubris.
The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity. - Yeats
posted by jonmc at 7:10 PM on October 16, 2005
Well, maybe some of us would rather hear eloquent negation than hollow hubris.
The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity. - Yeats
posted by jonmc at 7:10 PM on October 16, 2005
just to explicate that quote further, today I was watching TV, and I saw an ad for that new Edward R. Murrow flick featuring Robert Downey , Jr. For some reason, seeing that guy involved in anything political gets my ire up. I find myself thinking "When you can keep your nose out of a bag of coke, then you can tell me who to vote for, ya spoiled prick."
And then the obvious thought occured to me; by that metric, what business do any of us incredibly, glaring, blatantly flawed people, many of whom (including myself) telling anybody what to think or do about this fucked up world?
Just something to remember.
posted by jonmc at 8:06 PM on October 16, 2005
And then the obvious thought occured to me; by that metric, what business do any of us incredibly, glaring, blatantly flawed people, many of whom (including myself) telling anybody what to think or do about this fucked up world?
Just something to remember.
posted by jonmc at 8:06 PM on October 16, 2005
" ... is somehow "brilliant" for slapping goatse and pissing elephants and scatalogically-tinged "lamplight" into the threads... "
... for the record, I must confess that I am the one that originally found the infamous pissing elephant photo - see the third post down, where it was accompanied by a catchy elephant ditty. I think the first use of it here by quonsar was in a rather appropriate MetaTalk thread, if I recall, but it was probably my fault so you can blame that one on me, lodurr.
posted by madamjujujive at 8:11 PM on October 16, 2005 [1 favorite]
... for the record, I must confess that I am the one that originally found the infamous pissing elephant photo - see the third post down, where it was accompanied by a catchy elephant ditty. I think the first use of it here by quonsar was in a rather appropriate MetaTalk thread, if I recall, but it was probably my fault so you can blame that one on me, lodurr.
posted by madamjujujive at 8:11 PM on October 16, 2005 [1 favorite]
dammit. after "including myself" insert "have trouble keeping their own lives together."
See, I can't even edit a post. I have no business telling anyone what to think. :)
posted by jonmc at 8:13 PM on October 16, 2005
See, I can't even edit a post. I have no business telling anyone what to think. :)
posted by jonmc at 8:13 PM on October 16, 2005
Get a life Matt. q helped you make this site what it is today.
posted by caddis at 5:47 PM PST on October 16 [!]
caddis, don't be a sucker.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 8:13 PM on October 16, 2005
posted by caddis at 5:47 PM PST on October 16 [!]
caddis, don't be a sucker.
posted by The Jesse Helms at 8:13 PM on October 16, 2005
I would rather have Rebecca Blood and Zeldman back please.
posted by thirteen at 8:24 PM on October 16, 2005
posted by thirteen at 8:24 PM on October 16, 2005
If this was all about someone else, quonsar would post "fwap fwap fwap" in this thread.
Genuis contrarian! Cutting humor! The jester showing us all the truth in front of our very own eyes!
Fwap fwap fwap.
posted by Mid at 8:27 PM on October 16, 2005
Genuis contrarian! Cutting humor! The jester showing us all the truth in front of our very own eyes!
Fwap fwap fwap.
posted by Mid at 8:27 PM on October 16, 2005
In the end, I don't think this place is big enough for both mathowie and quonsar. I personally think MetaFilter is worse off - a little too serious, the mood brittle and colder - without him. Still, I sometimes ponder MetaChat as the portrait of what MeFi would be like without mathowie, and the cost is much, much greater.
posted by scarabic at 8:27 PM on October 16, 2005
posted by scarabic at 8:27 PM on October 16, 2005
konolia - You will miss us all when we are gone, c13. And unlike a few years past, we now all have places to go.
Yes, you're a special little flower, aren't you?
posted by bshort at 8:30 PM on October 16, 2005
Yes, you're a special little flower, aren't you?
posted by bshort at 8:30 PM on October 16, 2005
... for the record, I must confess that I am the one that originally found the infamous pissing elephant photo - see the third post down, where it was accompanied by
I could look at stuff like goatse and tubgirl all day (not for fun!) but that elephant pissing photo really weirds me out. Not when I first saw it, but after reflecting on it I just feel disturbed. very weird effect.
posted by delmoi at 8:33 PM on October 16, 2005
I could look at stuff like goatse and tubgirl all day (not for fun!) but that elephant pissing photo really weirds me out. Not when I first saw it, but after reflecting on it I just feel disturbed. very weird effect.
posted by delmoi at 8:33 PM on October 16, 2005
Also, Jessamyn edited my first comment in this thread, which was riffing on someone else's HTML error, which she corrected.
the change is fine, but I just wanted to point that out since it feels really weird to have something attributed to me that's different then what I actually said.
posted by delmoi at 8:37 PM on October 16, 2005
the change is fine, but I just wanted to point that out since it feels really weird to have something attributed to me that's different then what I actually said.
posted by delmoi at 8:37 PM on October 16, 2005
I also miss hama7 and plep.
posted by homunculus at 8:51 PM on October 16, 2005
posted by homunculus at 8:51 PM on October 16, 2005
Still, I sometimes ponder MetaChat as the portrait of what MeFi would be like without mathowie, and the cost is much, much greater.
Amen.
posted by Ryvar at 8:52 PM on October 16, 2005
Amen.
posted by Ryvar at 8:52 PM on October 16, 2005
I've been reviewing some profiles, and I believe that this is quonsar's sock puppet. Congrats!
posted by Balisong at 9:23 PM on October 16, 2005
posted by Balisong at 9:23 PM on October 16, 2005
I find myself thinking "When you can keep your nose out of a bag of coke, then you can tell me who to vote for, ya spoiled prick."
I'm John Kerry and I approved this message.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 9:38 PM on October 16, 2005
I'm John Kerry and I approved this message.
posted by Saucy Intruder at 9:38 PM on October 16, 2005
I also miss hama7 and plep
... yes, although I don't think plep is gone for good - at least, I hope note.
Here are some other folks I miss: Miguel, MrBaliHai,
t r a c y, chcobangs, jpoulos, rcade, rushmc - if I really thought about it, there are probably more....
posted by madamjujujive at 10:01 PM on October 16, 2005
... yes, although I don't think plep is gone for good - at least, I hope note.
Here are some other folks I miss: Miguel, MrBaliHai,
t r a c y, chcobangs, jpoulos, rcade, rushmc - if I really thought about it, there are probably more....
posted by madamjujujive at 10:01 PM on October 16, 2005
ror
posted by Dreamghost at 10:16 PM on October 16, 2005
posted by Dreamghost at 10:16 PM on October 16, 2005
To announce that there must be no criticism of the Moderator, or that we are to stand by the Moderator, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the Internet public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or anyone else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else.
T-Rex
posted by Dreamghost at 10:24 PM on October 16, 2005
T-Rex
posted by Dreamghost at 10:24 PM on October 16, 2005
Whatever happened to that one guy? Merv something maybe, started with a M, or at least a M sound could have been an N, he always wore turtle necks. "Hickeys" he said, I remember that, might have called them love bites, good people.
posted by I Foody at 10:44 PM on October 16, 2005
posted by I Foody at 10:44 PM on October 16, 2005
Put another way: Quonsar is not Stavros. 'Nuff said.
Not sure if that's in support of reinstating q or of banning me. Ah well, it's all good. Well, except the banning me part, anyway.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:11 PM on October 16, 2005
Not sure if that's in support of reinstating q or of banning me. Ah well, it's all good. Well, except the banning me part, anyway.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:11 PM on October 16, 2005
konolia - You will miss us all when we are gone, c13. And unlike a few years past, we now all have places to go.
Wow, what a creepy and comical thing to say. Yet somehow I'm not surprised.
I'm fine with whatever matt decides. His baby. But it seems that q is happy at metachat. Konolia is happy at metachat. Amberglow is a mod, along with quonsar. It's one big happy chat room. It's bizarro metafilter, and my nightmare, but it's there and it seems to be what many wish metafilter would be. And, you know, that's a good thing.
posted by justgary at 12:02 AM on October 17, 2005
Wow, what a creepy and comical thing to say. Yet somehow I'm not surprised.
I'm fine with whatever matt decides. His baby. But it seems that q is happy at metachat. Konolia is happy at metachat. Amberglow is a mod, along with quonsar. It's one big happy chat room. It's bizarro metafilter, and my nightmare, but it's there and it seems to be what many wish metafilter would be. And, you know, that's a good thing.
posted by justgary at 12:02 AM on October 17, 2005
The best lack all convictions, while the worst
Are full of passionate intensity. - Yeats
Yes, that does bear repeating. Especially in tangential conjunction with a reference to the Murrow-McCarthy conflict. And, in a funhouse mirror sort of way, to the offscreen behavior of an actor who happens to be involved in a film about the Murrow-McCarthy conflict.....
Put another way: Personally, I'll take hubris over ironic detachment (almost) any day of the week.
posted by lodurr at 12:47 AM on October 17, 2005
Are full of passionate intensity. - Yeats
Yes, that does bear repeating. Especially in tangential conjunction with a reference to the Murrow-McCarthy conflict. And, in a funhouse mirror sort of way, to the offscreen behavior of an actor who happens to be involved in a film about the Murrow-McCarthy conflict.....
Put another way: Personally, I'll take hubris over ironic detachment (almost) any day of the week.
posted by lodurr at 12:47 AM on October 17, 2005
After much consideration of this discussion, I've decided that I'm very much in favor of the return of son of minya. I hope that settles the matter and we can move on?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 12:48 AM on October 17, 2005
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 12:48 AM on October 17, 2005
quonsar seems quite well behaved over at metachat, which is probably in no small part due to his being a moderator. Perhaps if he were given moderator priveleges here . . . ?
posted by caddis at 12:56 AM on October 17, 2005
posted by caddis at 12:56 AM on October 17, 2005
I think Y2karls post about the jamacian reggae/ska mp3's was the best post in the entire history of metafilter and will possibly never be equalled.
I don't know what that has to do with anything , i just thought i'd mention it.
posted by sgt.serenity at 1:50 AM on October 17, 2005 [1 favorite]
I don't know what that has to do with anything , i just thought i'd mention it.
posted by sgt.serenity at 1:50 AM on October 17, 2005 [1 favorite]
He was nice there before he was a mod, actually. But don't you guys think that this is getting a little creepy without q. being able to comment here?
For example, he has thoughts on the number of deleted comments mentioned by Matt:
For example, he has thoughts on the number of deleted comments mentioned by Matt:
well, i've just gotten home and finished reading all the stuff here and in metatalk and would make just one observation: 203 deleted comments would include all comments in entire threads deleted by matt for whatever reason. i often posted most frequently in threads that matt subsequently deleted. its disingenuous for him to bandy the number around without clarifying that. its also suspect that they can even be counted - in the green and the gray, comments and threads that are deleted supposedly disappear forever. in the blue, threads are merely hidden rather than deleted, but i've always thought individual comments which were deleted went away forever as well. strange.posted by taz at 1:54 AM on October 17, 2005
quonsar is wrong. when a thread is deleted, the comments don't suddenly become "deleted". 203 comments from metafilter, metatalk, and ask metafilter were all deleted by hand. All comments are saved forever, though threads in metatalk and ask metafilter really are removed from the db instead of hidden, but we're talking about comments, not threads.
This is indeed creepy to have people reposting what he's saying, I can read what's over on metachat, so I'll close this thread and offer him up the chance to post again over email.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 3:45 AM on October 17, 2005
posted by mathowie (staff) at 3:45 AM on October 17, 2005
This thread is closed to new comments.
posted by mischief at 7:49 PM on October 15, 2005