"Capital and Stratification within Virtual Community: A Case Study of Metafilter.com"

January 8, 2006 1:52 PM

After much discussion, debate and support, here my defended (and revised) thesis: "Capital and Stratification within Virtual Community: A Case Study of Metafilter.com". [mi]
posted by Quartermass to MetaFilter-Related at 1:52 PM (134 comments total)

I want to thank everyone who participated, and I hope this document does the community justice. I have a lot of love for this place, and the people that make it work. I am a better human being for having been a member of this community.

This thesis is as close to my vision as was possible under, though there are a few things that didn't go as planned or didn't come out the way I had intended.

For the record, this was for my MA requirements for Sociology at the University of Lethbridge in Southern Alberta. Though the topic was a case study on Metafilter, for me the focus was on Pierre Bourdieu's theory of class and capital which I attempted to duplicate in an online setting, to varying degrees of success.

Overall, it was a lot of fun, I learned a lot, and am really glad it is over. I am applying to do my Phd. now, and am looking forward to further these ideas on a larger scale.
posted by Quartermass at 1:53 PM on January 8, 2006

That link seems broken.
posted by Kwantsar at 1:58 PM on January 8, 2006

Worked fine for me (Win 2000, Firefox 1.5).
posted by hangashore at 2:02 PM on January 8, 2006

Kwantsar, go here and hit the "Download" link at the bottom. Apparently the site has some kind of throttle, so you may have to wait a few and try again.
posted by gleuschk at 2:03 PM on January 8, 2006

Link works fine, but the "download" button is kind of hidden down at the bottom left hand side of the page. No comments on paper as of yet, since I haven't written it.
posted by kavasa at 2:03 PM on January 8, 2006

worked for me too
posted by matteo at 2:04 PM on January 8, 2006

Er, read it.
posted by kavasa at 2:04 PM on January 8, 2006

Eh, don't bother - he Godwins himself in the first paragraph.

Kidding! Congrats on defending, QMass! Where ya headed for the Ph.D.?
posted by hangashore at 2:08 PM on January 8, 2006

Participants of the Metafilter community constantly surf other areas of the web and bring back unique links, and then present them to the community in the form of a ‘front page post’ (which is referred to as an FPP).

Nooooooooooooooooooooo!

Quartermass, this is awesome.
posted by gleuschk at 2:13 PM on January 8, 2006

I was going to print it out to read later, but then I looked at the page count. Nope. Notgonnadothat. I'll just leave it up on the other monitor and read as I have time.
posted by pjern at 2:20 PM on January 8, 2006

Yeah, I'm getting that it's reached a download limit for the session. Looking forward to reading. Congrats on the successful defense, Q.
posted by donpedro at 2:23 PM on January 8, 2006

Ah, got it. From a quick skim of the outline, looks interesting.
posted by donpedro at 2:43 PM on January 8, 2006

congratulations!
posted by andrew cooke at 2:44 PM on January 8, 2006

Congratulations!
posted by LarryC at 2:50 PM on January 8, 2006

*goes straight to 5.7.3*
posted by mr_crash_davis at 2:55 PM on January 8, 2006

Very interesting! This is a good succinct description of Metatalk:

This struggle consists of users ‘calling each other out’ in Metatalk, which is a daily attempt to define the direction of the community (such as what kind of posts are acceptable or unacceptable or what kinds of language are appropriate or inappropriate), as well as to air personal grievances (that tend to be mainly between the self described ‘political left’ and the ‘political right’).

And this is an intriguing comparison, which I wish you'd followed up on; maybe you'll expand on it in your diss:

So why does Metafilter continue to rehash the same topics on an ongoing basis? As I will examine in the next section, these ongoing discussions serve to reinforce norms and rules, and have a similar function as story telling in pre-literate societies.

congratulations!
posted by andrew cooke

Ah, but will you still say that once you notice that he refers to you as "Andrew Cook"? (I might also note that the first letter in Stavrosthewonderchicken shouldn't be uppercase.)

Thanks for posting this, Q!
posted by languagehat at 2:55 PM on January 8, 2006 [1 favorite]

I am thoroughly enjoying reading this, thanks for posting it! and congratulations on your scholastic success!
one small thing...5.3.1 begins "The front page loads with one icon – the Metafilter logo which appears in the
upper right hand corner of the site." there's a very good chance I'm totally mixed up on this, but isn't the logo in the upper left corner?
posted by carsonb at 3:02 PM on January 8, 2006

Congratulations, Quartermass! I skimmed it just now and will read it more closely later, when I have time. Brilliant.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 3:03 PM on January 8, 2006

whenever 'starvosthewonderchicken' appears in all seriousness in a reasonably academic thesis of any sort, I am happy.
posted by kcm at 3:07 PM on January 8, 2006

Now we can all start hounding matt to add a Mefi Capital ratings system :)
posted by pjern at 3:10 PM on January 8, 2006

whenever 'starvosthewonderchicken' appears in all seriousness in a reasonably academic thesis of any sort, I am happy.

Well, me too, if it's spelled right.

This struggle consists of users ‘calling each other out’

I hate you. But congrats anyway!
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 3:19 PM on January 8, 2006

not so crazy about 'stavrosthewonderchicken', sorry.
posted by kcm at 3:19 PM on January 8, 2006

Nice going, Quartermass! Interesting work.
posted by Firas at 3:24 PM on January 8, 2006

Heheh - I'd almost forgotten about u.n. owen. High-larryous.

Congrats, Quartermass!
posted by scarabic at 3:24 PM on January 8, 2006

Inspirational. Thanks.
posted by Eideteker at 3:26 PM on January 8, 2006

I was going to print it out to read later, but then I looked at the page count. And then I thought I'd wait to do it at work tomorrow on Uncle Sam's dime.
posted by fixedgear at 3:33 PM on January 8, 2006

Though the lack of justification is mildly irritating (of your text, not your argument). >=O
posted by Eideteker at 3:35 PM on January 8, 2006

tl;dr
posted by keswick at 3:44 PM on January 8, 2006

4.6 Data Collection

The data that was collected for this research was carried within the context of an online ethnography, and was completed in a few phases. The first phase was carried out in the form of participant-observational ethnography of the Metafilter community. I became an active participant within the community, and followed every MetaTalk thread, as well as a large number of Metafilter threads where there were high levels of community participation. This heavy phase of data collection lasted for about eight months, where I spent an average of six to eight hours a day online, at different times of the day. I also relied heavily on the extensive archives to fill the gaps of what users were discussing, to gain a sense of history for the site, as well as to flesh out and back up various things I was witnessing.

Mm hmmmm. A more likely scenario:

Supervisor: QUARTERMASS! Every time I walk by here, you're staring at that blue page, typing away. What is it, interweb chat porn? And what about your thesis? I haven't seen a word of it!

Quartermass: Ah... er... this is, uh, RESEARCH, sir! Yeah, I'm checking the, uh, virtual capital of the, um, online community! Yeah!

Supervisor: Well then... my office, next Tuesday at 2 p.m. I want to see some preliminary results.

Quartermass: No problem!

Supervisor walks off.

Quartermass (quietly): Oh crap. Oh crap crap crappity crap. (starts up Word, starts typing furiously...)

Sorry, can't help extrapolating from my own graduate carreer.
posted by hangashore at 3:57 PM on January 8, 2006 [2 favorites]

searched for my name, didn't see it. moved on.

just kidding. congratulations, sir!
posted by shmegegge at 4:00 PM on January 8, 2006

Anybody got a mirror?
posted by Armitage Shanks at 4:04 PM on January 8, 2006

Here's a local mirror.
posted by mathowie (staff) at 4:21 PM on January 8, 2006 [1 favorite]

Great, thanks.
posted by Armitage Shanks at 4:31 PM on January 8, 2006

Thanks Matt!
I didn't even think about the justification until now (it makes it slightly unreadable on screen). I will post a new version when I get home later tonight.

I am sorry to everyone whose name I spelled wrong. I will fix those up before I get it bound, and then it collects dust in the basement of some library!

languagehat: I started a section on the 'storytelling' analogy, but ultimately had to abandon it for the sake of time (and to avoid going all the way into a tangent).

Stavros: why the hate? is it my 'over use of quotes' (you should have seen my first draft! My supervisor was ready to 'shoot me') or the idea?

Thanks to everyone for the kind words.
posted by Quartermass at 4:41 PM on January 8, 2006

cool beans.
posted by quonsar at 4:41 PM on January 8, 2006

but then I looked at the page count

The Summary of Major Conclusions starts on page 119. I liked this bit:

There are two components to this thesis that are valuable to the field of sociology [and anthropology, I'd say]. The first comes from the application and extension of Bourdieu’s theory of capital. In finding a social setting where economic capital was not a factor in distinction, it is exciting to discover a new form of capital that has emerged to replace it. Users still structure themselves without the presence of economic capital, replacing it with a new form of capital that is equally important in this setting.

Well-said. Bravo, Quartermass. So far, it looks like a thoughtful and respectful piece of academic research. It should go into the front page sidebar.
posted by mediareport at 4:50 PM on January 8, 2006 [1 favorite]

Quartermass: it occurs to me that if you're going to post a new version—would you consider posting (or giving permission to post) this as HTML?
posted by Firas at 4:59 PM on January 8, 2006

God I hate academia, and this is why.
posted by Elpoca at 4:59 PM on January 8, 2006

And should be required reading for every new member. It will be hereafter refered to simply as "The Thesis." (preferably in hushed tones)

"Only after you read and discuss in essay format The Thesis to the satisfaction of a peer evaluation board will you be allowed to participate in discussion on MetaFilter. Until then, you're restricted to MetaTalk."

This will create a new class of n00bs who feel entitlement not for having paid $5 but for having gone through the rigorous initiation process detailed above. And they will be insufferable bores.
posted by Eideteker at 5:00 PM on January 8, 2006

So far, it looks like a thoughtful and respectful piece of academic research. It should go into the front page sidebar.

Not only that, it's very readable, which is a hard balance to strike in academic writing. I've been looking forward to getting a peek at this, and it's fascinating!

*starts thinking about stealing ideas re: reactions to Matt's authority/mediation for a discourse analysis paper...*
posted by heatherann at 5:02 PM on January 8, 2006

God I hate academia, and this is why.

Because they talk about MetaFilter? Because they make reference to authors you happen not to have read? Either way, thanks for your scintillating and well-informed contribution to this discussion.
posted by languagehat at 5:03 PM on January 8, 2006

Stavros: why the hate?

I was joking, of course, but one of my quixotacular hobby-horses (if that makes sense) has been use of the phrasal verb 'call out' for Metatalk. Just me, I know.

not so crazy about 'stavrosthewonderchicken', sorry.

But it's my username. You don't get a vote! (Also, I've always been slightly pleased at the sidelong implications of the Greek given name 'Stavros' when married with 'thewonderchicken', given that the etymology of the name refers to the Cross and crucifixion, etc, yadda yadda, and I have my own ideas about all that. Plus, 'starvos' ain't a word.)
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 5:20 PM on January 8, 2006

Intentionally blank pages == hawt.

However, you miss out on a lot by not typing the paradoxical phrase "This page intentionally left blank" on those blank pages.
posted by Paris Hilton at 5:22 PM on January 8, 2006

also, please post an HTM version, and please post it to the web or something. this doublespace PDF crap is giving me a headache.
posted by Paris Hilton at 5:23 PM on January 8, 2006

Oh, man: Chapter 5 is dynamite.

God I hate academia, and this is why.
posted by Elpoca at 4:59 PM PST on January 8

yeah thinking sucks bro maybe you should check out this hilarious site
posted by Optimus Chyme at 5:27 PM on January 8, 2006

Also please write an "executive summary". If I am going to read 135 pages of something, I'm definitely not going to read about something I already know about. I'm not going to read an 800 page manual on how to take a dump, and I'm not reading 135 pages of navel gazing. If I had time for 135 pages I'd read some Joyce or Dostoevsky or Pynchon something. At least then I could impress people.
posted by Paris Hilton at 5:30 PM on January 8, 2006

And once you've written an executive summary, post it to projects. TIA.
posted by Paris Hilton at 5:31 PM on January 8, 2006

yeah thinking sucks bro maybe you should check out this hilarious site

Oh, I see! By your link to fark, you're implying that perhaps MetaTalk is too erudite for me!! Brilliant! Good show!!!
posted by Elpoca at 5:34 PM on January 8, 2006

Um, you *could* consider actually offering an intelligent point, Elpoca. You know, for fun.
posted by mediareport at 5:38 PM on January 8, 2006

I agree that it is very readable, and it is rather amusing to see citations of so many threads and quotes of users. Great work. I'll be printing this out tomorrow at work too.
posted by pithy comment at 5:42 PM on January 8, 2006

Congratulations and nice work, Quartermass!

P.S. A "Dinosaur Comics" version would be great.
posted by brain_drain at 5:44 PM on January 8, 2006

Congratulations! It looks like a good thesis, and interesting.
posted by OmieWise at 5:52 PM on January 8, 2006

I searched for my name, but--sadly--came up with nothing.
posted by ColdChef at 6:02 PM on January 8, 2006

"I searched for my name, but--sadly--came up with nothing."

If it's any consolation, the passage in the section on Matt that says:"He also has the power, as some users^* fear, to pull the plug on the community any time he wants to." clearly refers to you. I mean, who else could it have meant?

^*Emphasis added
posted by mr_crash_davis at 6:13 PM on January 8, 2006

"This page unintentionally left blank." It's funnier.

FWIW, I believe the "currency" of MeFi is the same as that in real life. Life is a game of banking and withdrawing social credit. When you're in the black, you're able to withdraw others' time, energy, patience, assistance, support, what-have-you.

When you're in the red, you're pretty much fucked.
posted by five fresh fish at 6:14 PM on January 8, 2006

When you're in the red on mefi, just create a new account.
posted by Eideteker at 6:19 PM on January 8, 2006

Congratz.

Another user, mullacc, points to the visibility afforded to celebrities

Whenever I come across a longish thread (60+ comments) I tend to scan for the MeFi
celebs - jonmc, dios, amberglow, C_D, etc. I'm not sure if it's volume of comments, force
of personality or something else completely about the MeFi celebs, but the momentum of
the conversation is almost always directed by one or more of these people. If you were to
read only the comments by the celebs and those they are directly conversing with you'd
probably get the gist of almost any thread. All those non-celebs can amount to a lot noise
and tangential topics.

So now we know who'll be the first up against the wall.

Seriously, I don't like your thesis but that's ok, I don't like most of sociology and it still puts forward some good ideas. As a friend of mine once said, "sociologists are good for marrying--that's it."
posted by nixerman at 6:30 PM on January 8, 2006

When you're in the red

*I'm* in the grey. How about you?

Oh, and PH, you're never going to impress people, just live with it.
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 6:34 PM on January 8, 2006

'Paris', as mediareport said, the 'executive summary' starts at p119. The thesis is a reaffirmation of Bourdieu's concepts of capital in a society (at least underscoring the importance of the cultural and social kinds) and and interesting comparison in the emergence of class despite a design intended to thwart excessive individuality, because, as Bourdieu pointed out, class is just an accumulation of different types of capital… or at least, that's what I think it is about :) I hope you were not expecting a conclusion about the website per se, it's just an empirical playground.
posted by Firas at 6:44 PM on January 8, 2006 [1 favorite]

Oh, I see! By your link to fark, you're implying that perhaps MetaTalk is too erudite for me!! Brilliant! Good show!!!
posted by Elpoca at 5:34 PM PST on January 8

Yeah, pretty much. If you have a problem with academia, I suspect it may be caused in part or in whole by the postmodernist idiots who took over the fields of English and Philosophy and who were later exposed by Alan Sokal and Jean Bricmont as the frauds they really are.

You certainly have no reason to denigrate Quartermass's thesis, as it's quite interesting and well-written, and a valid contribution to modern sociology. You have given no evidence to the contrary, nor offered any worthwhile criticism. If you need a couple weeks to read it and look up the big words, don't worry: MeTa threads are active for a month.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 6:45 PM on January 8, 2006

I'm not going to read an 800 page manual on how to take a dump
posted by Paris Hilton at 5:30 PM PST on January 8

Your posting history suggests otherwise.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 6:50 PM on January 8, 2006 [1 favorite]

I don't believe any Mefite ever used "LOL" except ironically.

Having said that, well done Quatermass! I hope you enjoy the stringent peer-review you're getting in this thread.
posted by i_am_joe's_spleen at 6:51 PM on January 8, 2006

also, please post an HTM version, and please post it to the web or something. this doublespace PDF crap is giving me a headache.

File--->Export Document To Text...
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 6:56 PM on January 8, 2006

Firas: you put that better in one paragraph than I did in 100-ish pages. Wanna ghost write my dissertation?

I am working on HTML version. Should be up tomorrow-ish. Check back to this thread and/or my userpage.
posted by Quartermass at 6:56 PM on January 8, 2006

You certainly have no reason to denigrate Quartermass's thesis.

Well, that has never seemed to stop any other criticism here, but, okay, I retract my glib comment. In fact, let me add the following:

Quartermass, thanks for posting your thesis. Very readable, quite entertaining, and a notable contribution to the MetaFilter community.
posted by Elpoca at 7:03 PM on January 8, 2006

Optimus: There's not as much capital as you might think in playing the bilious yapping dog.

(I'll print it out tomorrow at school, when it's free. And I'll cite it even in totally unrelated papers that I write, I promise.)
posted by klangklangston at 7:16 PM on January 8, 2006

God I hate academia

Because they make reference to authors you happen not to have read?

Well, no. That's no cause to hate someone.

Personally, I hate academia because they make a grand show of constructing marvellous abstractions in terms they invent themselves, only to turn around and analyze them at great length and in furious detail to undeclared ends, for the benefit of a non-existent audience which probably couldn't follow the meandering, callow style even if they did have the bibliography memorized. Tenure's invitation to irrelevance is perhaps more of a practical threat to the practice of the liberal arts and scientific method than the corruption it is meant to protect against.

In other words, they're boring, their writing sucks, they hem and haw and hope to find an argument to make and then fiddle their flagging faddles in emulation of each other to make it, living on their own measure of their own success. As such, they contribute something to the whole of humanity only in instances of extreme good faith or personal genius, all examples to the contrary comprising a massive majority waste of energy & money, not to mention once-perfectly-good minds.

That's generally speaking, not necessarily in this case. And this is obviously me characterizing my personal bias, not claiming to know of a certainty that all academics are worthless. Academia has done some good things for me. But as a whole, as an institution, I have come to "hate" it, in that "hating" sort of way that just makes you not want to ever have anything to do with it ever again. Like an illegitimate regime or an unbacked currency, it's only the illusion of authority.
posted by scarabic at 7:17 PM on January 8, 2006 [7 favorites]

Like Metafilter, his thesis was only as good as we MeFolk made it. So congrats MeFites for getting him an MA.

Now, if you could only find some way to stretch this out and somehow get paid to surf MeFi...
posted by Civil_Disobedient at 7:18 PM on January 8, 2006

I spent all my social capital, and now the bill collectors are after me. They're going to repossess my personality. Can anyone spare a virtual dime?
posted by sfenders at 7:29 PM on January 8, 2006

Your posting history suggests otherwise.

Toche, good sir.
posted by Paris Hilton at 7:40 PM on January 8, 2006

Optimus: There's not as much capital as you might think in playing the bilious yapping dog.

Rather more than in being an obsessive bore with a chip on his shoulder, I'd imagine.

Personally, I hate academia because they make a grand show of constructing marvellous abstractions in terms they invent themselves, only to turn around and analyze them at great length and in furious detail to undeclared ends, for the benefit of a non-existent audience which probably couldn't follow the meandering, callow style even if they did have the bibliography memorized. (snip) As such, they contribute something to the whole of humanity only in instances of extreme good faith or personal genius, all examples to the contrary comprising a massive majority waste of energy & money, not to mention once-perfectly-good minds.

I largely agree with this; I'd rather work in a gas station all day than go back into the liberal arts. But a bazillion grad students at a bazillion terminals have published more than enough interesting and important findings to make the whole endeavor worthwhile.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 7:42 PM on January 8, 2006

scarabic: Personally, I hate academia because...

This is akin to hating blogs because they're all written by 14 year old girls who use 'u' for 'you' and talk about ridiculous crap. Their writing sucks, they overanalyse subjects that don't interest me, etc. Yes, blogs can be like that, and academic writing can be the way that you describe it, and I think we all want to slap the people who indulge in such abuse of both mediums. That said, there's good stuff to be found in both genres.

It seems silly to dismiss Quartermass's thesis simply because some other academics are hacks.
posted by heatherann at 7:49 PM on January 8, 2006

I am sorry to everyone whose name I spelled wrong. I will fix those up before I get it bound, and then it collects dust in the basement of some library!

Psst-- typo alert: it should be 'complimenting Matt', not 'complementing Matt', on page 89.

And congratulations!
posted by jokeefe at 7:51 PM on January 8, 2006

Cool, Quartermass & congrats on what seems to be a well-written thesis. I liked the description of your own transformation from a lurker into a full fledged Mefite (p.56-58).
posted by PY at 7:57 PM on January 8, 2006

I know this is going to sound weird, but I didn't agree with the "mathowie" section.

I'm personally not a fan of people saying "it's his site, we're all just guests" and I've gone to great lengths to explain why it's not 100% true and "he's just the bar owner, we're the ones that make this place" isn't 100% true either but there's some gray area in the middle that is most true. That section seemed to say that most users think the first extreme is the right one.

The rest of the section on me read like I'm treated as a god and no one ever dares cross me. While people treat me with respect when offering criticism for the most part (I think everyone should treat everyone with respect when disagreeing), that's not always the case. Half of the content on MetaTalk is basically saying "this is crap, the discussion is crap, the server is crap, and it's all matt's fault."
posted by mathowie (staff) at 7:57 PM on January 8, 2006 [2 favorites]

Don't listen to him, he doesn't know what he's talking about.
posted by gleuschk at 8:00 PM on January 8, 2006

Am I always as inarticulate as my lone quote would seem to indicate?
posted by Bugbread at 8:04 PM on January 8, 2006

This is great, the discussion is great, the server is great, and it's all mathowie and Quartermass's fault.
posted by Balisong at 8:07 PM on January 8, 2006

And just thinking out loud-- the u.n. owen story is certainly an instance of pile-on/community policing, but the Kaycee Nicole incident is more so, and a fascinating 'case study' in relationships in virtual communities, to boot... though perhaps too fascinating (in other words, potentially derailing).

A really interesting read, and thank you.
posted by jokeefe at 8:08 PM on January 8, 2006

It seems silly to dismiss Quartermass's thesis simply because some other academics are hacks.

I agree and took pains not to do so. For clarity, though, it's not just the hacks that bring down academia. There's a single-file road to hell you can walk within its mainstream definition of "success" as well.
posted by scarabic at 8:10 PM on January 8, 2006

I must say I'm very impressed, quartermass. I was intrigued by your institution of the new term, virtual capital, especially, and find myself wondering if you've actually come up with a workable definition for whuffie in the process! Congratulations.
posted by Lynsey at 8:10 PM on January 8, 2006

dare I say?

Metafilter: It's all matt's fault


grats Quartermass
yay
*throws confetti*
posted by edgeways at 8:15 PM on January 8, 2006

Will the illustrated version have the pissing elephant? And goatse?
posted by LarryC at 8:17 PM on January 8, 2006

It needs a colophon.

If it already has one, I apologize in advance.
posted by Paris Hilton at 8:19 PM on January 8, 2006

That's generally speaking, not necessarily in this case.

So, what was your point again, exactly?
posted by mediareport at 8:19 PM on January 8, 2006

I was only mentioned once! in passing!

I'll be in my dressing room slurping gin.
posted by jonmc at 8:22 PM on January 8, 2006

i opened it in adobe reader and searched for "quonsar" which produced a perfectly dandy executive summary. oh, and this is crap, the discussion is crap, the server is crap, and it's all matt's fault.
posted by quonsar at 8:26 PM on January 8, 2006

scarabic, were you abused by academia as a child?
Hating academia is like hating the internet. It's nonsensical in so far as it taints virtually everything. A very strange view to circulate. Perhaps sir is mischaracterizing the bee in his bonnet?

Well done Quartermass. Not my cup of tea but you've obviously put in a great deal of effort.
posted by peacay at 8:30 PM on January 8, 2006

Nice! I'm on page 72. Go jonson!!
posted by jonson at 8:48 PM on January 8, 2006

scarabic, were you abused by academia as a child?

I was. A man in a mortorboard beat me with a thesaurus. You people with your dissertations, stop taunting me!
posted by jonmc at 8:49 PM on January 8, 2006 [2 favorites]

i like it ! (and i'm famous now!) : >

MetaTalk is at times like watching a soap opera, with users whom I unconsciously attributed as villains and others as heroes, or defenders of all that was good about Metafilter.
I think we all do that, except it's like a soap opera with new cast members coming onboard all the time now.
posted by amberglow at 8:55 PM on January 8, 2006

So why does Metafilter continue to rehash the same topics on an ongoing basis? As I will examine in the next section, these ongoing discussions serve to reinforce norms and rules, and have a similar function as story telling in pre-literate societies. As Metafilter’s posted rules are fairly ambiguous in nature, and its membership is in constant flux (that is, a regular stream of new users coming in and older users drifting away from the community), these discussions serve to ensure that the Metafilter culture is passed forward.

This is cool, too.
posted by amberglow at 8:57 PM on January 8, 2006 [1 favorite]

As Metafilter’s posted rules are fairly ambiguous in nature, and its membership is in constant flux (that is, a regular stream of new users coming in and older users drifting away from the community), these discussions serve to ensure that the Metafilter culture is passed forward.

Metafilter is dead. Long live Metafilter.
posted by Rothko at 9:04 PM on January 8, 2006

You're our very own Margaret Mead, quarter. : >
posted by amberglow at 9:18 PM on January 8, 2006

Am I always as inarticulate as my lone quote would seem to indicate?

Nope.

I, on the other hand, am nowhere near as smart as was suggested by the wonderchickeny nuggets that Quartermass quoted. I am therefore well satisfied with my virtual parking place in the academosphere.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 9:22 PM on January 8, 2006

peacay writes "scarabic, were you abused by academia as a child?
"Hating academia is like hating the internet."

Not so. Academia is an organized system with an established power structure. One can hate it just as much as one can hate monarchy or feudalism or something. Being anti-academia is not the same thing as being anti-intellectual.

Personally, I've never found anything of any worth in organized education... Not denying its appeal and benefits to others, of course. It's obvious that it worked for Quartermass judging by what I've read so far. It just rubs me the wrong way.
posted by brundlefly at 9:24 PM on January 8, 2006

So, what was your point again, exactly?

My point was to offer a moderating counterpoint to languagehat's seeming dismissal of... or rather just to take up his invitation to elaborate on the reasons for the blanket "hatred" of academia commented on by another member. I hoped to sound my agreement so that such did not appear an absolute fluke, and qualify my comment as substantively as I could. "Hate" is obviously an emotion, so it's not necessary to prove any kind of case against academia to qualify it. But as it was left, above, it did seem to require some elaboration, as languagehat's question pointed out. My disclaimer that my comments represent only my personal bias does not in any way conflict with my elucidation of why I feel that emotion for that institution.

Anytime you have trouble following along, just send me an email and I'll be happy to help you out more discreetly.
posted by scarabic at 9:25 PM on January 8, 2006

Anytime you have trouble following along, just send me an email and I'll be happy to help you out more discreetly.

Fllirt.

*bats eyelids*
posted by mediareport at 9:36 PM on January 8, 2006

This is in response to Matt's comment about what I had to say about him:

My conclusion to that admittedly clunky section was this:

There are two ways to look at Matt’s formal power; the first says that Matt has all the power and is Metafilter’s despot. Matt alone can ban users, delete comments and posts, and ultimately unplug the site whenever he wants, and thus users had better not ‘upset the god.’ The second says that Matt uses his power not for control over the site, but as mediator to the will of the community; as a facilitator and not a ruler. The response to Matt by a majority of the community lends more weight to Matt as a mediator and facilitator

I guess what I was trying to get here at was the grey area you suggest, though I was a bit vague about it. Still, it doesn't change the fact that some users still treat you with a great deal of deference (which to me was more interesting than the people who are always giving you a hard time). I guess I was more intrigued by the specter of your power than the way you actually use it (which is, as I say, is used more as a facilitator than a despot).

The section on Matt is admittedly very clunky and could stand more work.
posted by Quartermass at 9:47 PM on January 8, 2006

well, Matt himself is very clunky and could stand more work too. ; >
posted by amberglow at 9:52 PM on January 8, 2006 [1 favorite]

brudlefly, academia isn't just the power structure. It's "a collective term for the scientific and cultural community engaged in higher education and research, taken as a whole."

I wasn't hinting that sniping at academia was anti-intellectual, I'm merely asserting that it is misplaced venom. I understand hating the structure. And yes, this is just semantics.

I don't believe scarabic or anyone else who was to voice such an emotive opinion actually mean they hate the totality of higher education and all that that includes. But when somebody says "I hate academia", that's just what they are communicating.
posted by peacay at 9:55 PM on January 8, 2006

I can just imagine trying to defend a thesis on MeFi to non-members unfamiliar with the site.

"So this MetaFilter, it vibrates?"

SORRY! Sorry.
posted by Eideteker at 10:00 PM on January 8, 2006

I just wanted to point out that Suicide Girls is in the footnotes. That is all. I just wanted to point that out, and the link works. No, I do not hate academia.

Further, Quartermass, what might be an even scarier PhD dissertation is to study what would happen if you submitted such a thing to 10,000 editors. (basically what you just did with this paper).

Anyways, bravo!
posted by tweak at 10:04 PM on January 8, 2006

Quartermass, I read much of it, and you clearly did a lot of work to research and present your framework and specific analysis of MeFi. I wish I had more to say but I'm still thinking about it and don't want to be glib.

Suffice to say I know you worked long and hard on this, and I'm happy for you that you've finished up. Thanks for letting us all read it!
posted by melissa may at 10:06 PM on January 8, 2006

Actually, yes, peacay, I only use the word "academia" as a pejorative. I also chatter quite happily about my old department, my alma mater, the school system, the broader establishment in my field, and all of those institutions are permeable to some degree. They all interact with the real world. "Academia" as a term I reserve for those with an ivory tower up their asses.

Note:
academia isn't just the power structure. It's "a collective term for the scientific and cultural community engaged in higher education and research, taken as a whole."

Don't forget the commercial sphere. Academia by no means has a lock on the "scientific community" nor the "cultural community." I give you any average pharmaceutical company and any Hollywood movie as evidence. If you want to argue that Hollywood movies don't really quality as "cultural community engaged in education and research" then you'll really be at the heart of my beef.

Which I should lay to rest for the sake of QMass' thread. Sorry Q. Me shut up now.
posted by scarabic at 10:20 PM on January 8, 2006

Congrats, Quartermass! For your information, I quoted you in my cyberspace paper and the prof LOVED it.
posted by arcticwoman at 10:32 PM on January 8, 2006

I feel so...so....deconstructed.


Also, I really hate the term "mefi celebrity" but I guess it was central to your thesis so you get a pass.
posted by CunningLinguist at 10:37 PM on January 8, 2006

Pony-from-another-ranch request: online HTML version of the paper with permalinks on each paragraph, so when we're arguing in Metatalk, we can cite stuff.

Although I admit I have no idea how to use the <cite> tag...
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 10:38 PM on January 8, 2006

Bravo, QM!

Hey, if you're our Margaret Mead, does that mean the whole "MetaFilter is a sort of psychosexual eden" thing is basically going to turn out to be horribly overblown years from now?
posted by mwhybark at 10:41 PM on January 8, 2006

"You're our very own Margaret Mead, quarter."

More like Diane Fossey.
posted by klangklangston at 10:47 PM on January 8, 2006

OK, who needs some grooming?
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 11:00 PM on January 8, 2006

Late to thread but congrats and thanks QM, I will look into this in more detail at some point. A quick glance kind of makes me want to do something similar but from another angle certainly.
posted by keijo at 1:34 AM on January 9, 2006

The u.n. owen thread somehow escaped my notice at the time. Having just finished reading it, I feel a bit ick. Not metafilter's finest hour.
posted by Ritchie at 3:10 AM on January 9, 2006

Still, it doesn't change the fact that some users still treat you with a great deal of deference (which to me was more interesting than the people who are always giving you a hard time).

I think an argument could be made that the people consistently giving Matt a hard time and those always showing deference are both reacting to Matt's authority.
posted by spaghetti at 3:28 AM on January 9, 2006

Personally, I've never found anything of any worth in organized education

Since when is academia organized? Or involved in education?
posted by gimonca at 6:04 AM on January 9, 2006

Hands up all those who searched for their own user name.....
posted by orange swan at 6:26 AM on January 9, 2006

*puts her hand up*

I think its interesting and appropriate that matteo is now Mefi's "best poster", as cited in noted research journals.

Great job and congratulations.
posted by anastasiav at 6:42 AM on January 9, 2006

My point was to offer a moderating counterpoint to languagehat's seeming dismissal of... or rather just to take up his invitation to elaborate on the reasons for the blanket "hatred" of academia commented on by another member.

scarabic, you've misunderstood me. Actually, I have about the same gut reaction to "academia" that you do, and have often been heard to go off on its collective ass (though obviously I respect the achievements of blah blah blah and would never dismiss this, that and the other, &c &c). I fled academia over a quarter of a century ago and never looked back. But this thread isn't about academia, it's about Quartermass's thesis, and Elpoca's entire comment was:
God I hate academia, and this is why. [emphasis added]
Which is a nasty, pointless slur on Quartermass, which is what I was reacting to; as heatherann put it (better than I):
It seems silly to dismiss Quartermass's thesis simply because some other academics are hacks.

The u.n. owen thread somehow escaped my notice at the time. Having just finished reading it, I feel a bit ick. Not metafilter's finest hour.

I agree, but more importantly, I think it's not the best example of a flame-out; it's too complicated and involves too many extraneous factors. If I were you I'd pick a simpler and more straightforwardly entertaining one, like the one where son_of_minya threatened to cut off his hand.
posted by languagehat at 6:56 AM on January 9, 2006

languagehat: I started a section on the 'storytelling' analogy, but ultimately had to abandon it for the sake of time (and to avoid going all the way into a tangent).

I haven't read the paper yet (I'm at work, and so on), but look forward to it. This aspect of it really intrigues me. There must be a tremendous amount of exploration one could do on folk processes in MetaFilter. It must be fascinating to study a community that is represented wholly by its written record. Using the archives, you can actually pinpoint the moment at which certain elements of the lore were born, and trace their expression through time.

Anyway, congratulations!
posted by Miko at 7:24 AM on January 9, 2006 [1 favorite]

Edit, p. 60: "The front page loads with one icon – the Metafilter logo which appears in the upper right hand corner of the site." Should be the upper left hand corner, no? I'm really enjoying reading this.
posted by pithy comment at 8:15 AM on January 9, 2006

i have SOM's hand mounted on the wall in the den.
posted by quonsar at 8:51 AM on January 9, 2006

Fantastic job, Quartermass. Excellent! I look forward to reading it more fully. The notion of celebrity as a form of virtual capital is new to me, and I'm grateful to you for pointing it out.

I also really liked the thought and analysis you put into the relationship of the community to Matt, who hath the power of life and death!

Well done!
posted by jasper411 at 8:55 AM on January 9, 2006

Good stuff. Very good stuff.

Found my name mentioned several times. I hope you never tried to email me, as I haven't checked email in over a year. I have lots to say about MF Distilled and it's failure. But I think you captured the heart of it.

I always hoped someone would write this. Thank you thank you thank you.
posted by y6y6y6 at 11:35 AM on January 9, 2006

yay! quartermass!

You must feel relieved at this point. And see? The mefi didn't rip you to shreds!

Congrats, mister.
posted by taz at 2:23 PM on January 9, 2006

G'donya mate. Now all you have to worry about is your PhD :)
posted by dhruva at 6:33 PM on January 9, 2006

Congratulations, Quartermass. I read some big chunks of it and it looks really interesting. You must be relieved to be done with it.
posted by duck at 8:03 PM on January 9, 2006

Congratulations! Will definitely be reading (at least skimming) this
posted by darsh at 6:54 AM on January 10, 2006

Congratulations on finishing the thesis, Qmass. Ever onward to the PhD!
posted by safetyfork at 10:24 AM on January 10, 2006

I'm still only part of the way through. Enjoying it very much.

But before I forget, I wanted to point out that there's a really juicy typo on p. 76: left-wink politics.

For one wild and wonderful moment I thought it was intentional.
posted by tangerine at 4:37 PM on January 10, 2006 [1 favorite]

Congratulations, Quartermass. You are a pretty brave person to post your thesis about Metafilter to Metafilter. Kudos!
posted by kamikazegopher at 7:07 PM on January 10, 2006

I keep thinking about this thesis. I find it surprising that you didn't mention the Rothko/dios silence auction, where people voted with their dollars who they wanted to see silent for a week on MeFi. It seems like a way to convert (negative?) social capital on MeFi to actual capital for the good of the site. It was probably off the topic of the thesis, but that's just my two cents.

(Definitely note that both parties were very gracious in their participation, good sports and all.)
posted by Eideteker at 12:52 PM on January 11, 2006

I suspect that happened after he'd finished his basic research. Might make a good inclusion for the diss, though!
posted by languagehat at 1:40 PM on January 11, 2006

Yes, the Rothko/Dios thing happened while I was wrapping it up. I was so bummed out when I saw it too - "NOOOO! That would have been perfect!"
posted by Quartermass at 5:22 PM on January 11, 2006

I just want to add a big thank you to everyone who had nice things to say. It is validating after all of the work I put into it that my work wasn't outright rejected by the community. I was unjustifiably afraid that it might have gone the other way, and my love-on for you guys grew some more.
Thanks.
posted by Quartermass at 5:32 PM on January 11, 2006 [1 favorite]