Just because philosophists don't get anything done...

October 24, 2006 8:25 PM

Deleted?
This post was deleted for the following reason: chatfilter. What's the problem you're trying to solve again?

This isn't "chatfilter" this is an age-old question that could be served well by the hive-mind (community). Philosophical = Chatfilter?
posted by snsranch to Bugs at 8:25 PM (57 comments total)

What's the problem you're trying to solve again?
posted by Khalad at 8:29 PM on October 24, 2006

This Ask Metafilter, it's not for what you think it's for. And I quote, from the actual "post your question" page:

AskMe questions should have a purpose, goal, or problem to be solved. Open-ended chatty questions that don't offer a problem to be solved are detrimental to the long term usefulness of the site.

Philosophical questions are great, but they're not for Ask Metafilter.
posted by delfuego at 8:29 PM on October 24, 2006

I continue to be frustrated by the policy.
posted by knave at 8:30 PM on October 24, 2006

I continue to be frustrated by people who take their deleted AskMe's to MetaTalk.
posted by mediareport at 8:35 PM on October 24, 2006

I dig the policy, but in just this particular case it seemed that the policing of the policy was kinda strict.

But in any case, for Khalad and for the sake of semantics:

How have you, and how can I, deal with experiences that cause me to realize my own mortality?
posted by snsranch at 8:38 PM on October 24, 2006

There need to be two AskMes: analfilter and casualfilter.

Seriously, though — despite what the strident minority believe, AskMe is great for these kind of questions. I understand that Matt doesn't want them, and that's his call, but I think there's a place for yet another section here in which all of us who love these sort of discussions could congregate.
posted by jdroth at 8:39 PM on October 24, 2006

Hear hear.
posted by knave at 8:41 PM on October 24, 2006

honestly.
posted by boo_radley at 8:43 PM on October 24, 2006

Perhaps by examining and coming to terms with the mortality of the thread, and the way in which its early death either points toward the random meaningless of Metafilter existence or the potential that if there is a metadeity, it is either malign, careless or capricious, the poster can come to deal with the realization of their own mortality.

Or not.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 8:43 PM on October 24, 2006 [1 favorite]

AskMe questions should have a purpose, goal, or problem to be solved.

I agree. So then why was the question deleted?

One could interpret it as chatty, but I felt like it passed the sniff test. The poster could have improved the question if he/she had prefaced it with some contextual information regarding his motives for asking, but I didn't get the sense at all that it was going to be 'chatty'. There's a tremendous amount of more pointless drivel that get's through for the simple fact that it purports to have a more narrow, defined purpose, unfortunately.
posted by docpops at 8:53 PM on October 24, 2006

After seeing the fate of AskMes that didn't meet the guidelines I realized one day I too will be deleted.

I was going to go outside and smell the tulips, say hi to my neighbors, live life to the fullest... and then someone posted a MeTa about the deletion and I spent 4 hours getting into internet arguments. Then I went to bed.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 8:53 PM on October 24, 2006

If anyone can answer your question, including yourself, and any answer is equally valid, it's chatfilter.
posted by mcwetboy at 8:58 PM on October 24, 2006 [3 favorites]

"but I think there's a place for yet another section here in which all of us who love these sort of discussions could congregate."

...It's called MetaChat. Jesus, catch the fucking clue bus already.
posted by klangklangston at 8:59 PM on October 24, 2006

NavMe?
posted by edgeways at 9:01 PM on October 24, 2006

If you, personally are grappling with understanding a philosophical problem, then AskMe can help you with it. If you just want to poll the audience then it doesn't matter if the question is about your favorite color or the meaning of life, it's still a chatty question with no problem to be solved for the poster. Existential questions aren't really what AskMe is for unless there's some real world application. I really think that chatfilter FAQ entry is pretty clear about this.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 9:02 PM on October 24, 2006

I vote for a new section for philosophy/chatfilter.

We could call it PhilMe.

And then people would quit complaining about their pet preferences for AskMe questions not fitting into the idea of the section.
</facetiousness>
posted by Kickstart70 at 9:05 PM on October 24, 2006

despite what the strident minority believe, AskMe is great for these kind of questions

Riiight. And the well-founded fear that the AskMe front page will quickly be flooded with endless hypothetical and/or "age-old" questions has nothing to do with the strict policy against chatfilter.

Uh-huh. Sure.

...It's called MetaChat. Jesus, catch the fucking clue bus already.

hear hear.
posted by mediareport at 9:20 PM on October 24, 2006

Please stop saying "hive mind". It doesn't mean what you think it means. Just. Stop.
posted by Rhomboid at 9:40 PM on October 24, 2006 [2 favorites]

I think it's borderline chatfilter, but it was getting decent and honest responses and didn't have any complaints.. so why delete it? I don't get it...
posted by twiggy at 10:04 PM on October 24, 2006

Twiggy— You've been here how long?
posted by klangklangston at 10:05 PM on October 24, 2006

You know what? Ask.Me is just horrible for this kind of question. Do you really think that one paragraph answers to an "age-old" philosophy problem are going to produce anything worthwhile? Seriously?

If Ask.Me ever produces a conclusive answer to an "age-old" problem in philosophy, I'll eat my hat.
posted by oddman at 10:32 PM on October 24, 2006

...It's called MetaChat. Jesus, catch the fucking clue bus already.

Ah, klangston, always quick with the scintillating wit. Such a lovely human being. So articulate. So handsome.

I know that Metachat exists, and I've even looked at it in the past, but it's a not a part of this site. It's great that others find it useful, but it doesn't appeal to me at all. But thanks for your helpful suggestion, klangston, and the delightful way in which you gave it.
posted by jdroth at 11:36 PM on October 24, 2006

AskMe is for things that have useful answers.

Your question boils down to "let's talk about our experiences that have caused us to deal with our own mortality." It is chat. It is a support group discussion.

It's a very important, momentous topic, that defines us as human beings, but, AskMetafilter is the one subsite that is actively policed for things that fall outside of its scope and policed strongly, and you may bitch and disagree, but that is how it is.

I suggest sampling intoxicants, or reading philosophy books, or staring into the eyes of a beautiful woman, or any number of personal exploration activities.
posted by blacklite at 12:31 AM on October 25, 2006

If anyone can answer your question, including yourself, and any answer is equally valid, it's chatfilter.

It's the litmus test.

Please stop saying "hive mind". It doesn't mean what you think it means. Just. Stop

Good God yes.
posted by fixedgear at 3:21 AM on October 25, 2006

It's very easy to confuse the importance of a topic with its appropriatness as an AskMe question. It's similarly easy to confuse an AskMe deletion with some sort of global comment on the worth of a question. Neither is appropriate, and Jessamyn is right that the guidelines are clear enough to not require very much interpretation.

These kinds of callouts make it seem as if this type of decision is made without recourse to well-established community norms, on a whim. Since this isn't true, and the evidence and documentation demonstrate that it isn't true, repeated callouts for deleted chatfilter questions seem disturbingly dismissive of the intelligence of all involved.
posted by OmieWise at 4:33 AM on October 25, 2006 [1 favorite]

So, what does it means then, Rhomboid?
posted by micayetoca at 4:42 AM on October 25, 2006

mcwetboy writes 'If anyone can answer your question, including yourself, and any answer is equally valid, it's chatfilter.'

Unless it's relationshipfilter, when it's allowed.
posted by blag at 4:50 AM on October 25, 2006 [2 favorites]

"How have you, and how can I, deal with experiences that cause me to realize my own mortality?"

I don't see that sentence in the deleted post. Phrasing matters.
posted by Khalad at 5:54 AM on October 25, 2006

Go read the MeFi post on Dawkins and Eagleton. That is exactly the kind of uninformed, biased and half-assed answers you will receive to this kind of question.
posted by oddman at 5:59 AM on October 25, 2006

Philosophical questions are great, but this wasn't one of them.
philosophical != sophomoric
posted by signal at 6:07 AM on October 25, 2006

I know that Metachat exists, and I've even looked at it in the past, but it's a not a part of this site.

No, but it's an excellent annex. It really feels like an extension of MeFi, like the rec room where we can all hang out and just have freeform fun. I never visit any of the other spin off sites anymore.

Post your question there, and since you've already got this thread up and running, link to it here. Anyone who is really interested in your question will shuffle over there and post.
posted by orange swan at 6:08 AM on October 25, 2006

How - and for how long - do you shower? Do you leave the water running all along? Why / why not?

/confused
posted by MetaMonkey at 6:10 AM on October 25, 2006

mcwetboy writes 'If anyone can answer your question, including yourself, and any answer is equally valid, it's chatfilter.'

No, chatfilter is a question that has neither a definite answer nor serves any practical purpose.
posted by orange swan at 6:19 AM on October 25, 2006

"I know that Metachat exists, and I've even looked at it in the past, but it's a not a part of this site."

JDRoth— You may occassionally have to leave Metafilter to fulfill all of your internet needs. This is a feature, not a bug.

As for the tone: We've had this discussion here hundreds of times already. And MeCha was explicitly set up for those of you who love this type of question. So forgive me for thinking that since you've obviously seen the arguments over this again and again, like all the rest of us, and repeatedly seen the solution of "taking it to MetaChat" profered, that you have to be helmet-wearing retarded to once again pine for a site where this is allowed.
posted by klangklangston at 6:25 AM on October 25, 2006 [1 favorite]

Unless it's relationshipfilter, when it's allowed.

Er, no. I read almost all the relationshipfilter threads, but I almost never respond, precisely because I generally don't have the experience to provide a useful answer. So it is demonstrably false that anyone can answer relationshipfilter questions, and everyone's answers there are equally good.
posted by DevilsAdvocate at 6:37 AM on October 25, 2006

despite what the strident minority believe

Right, anyone who disagrees with you is by definition part of the "strident minority."

Man, I'm sick of these "why was my wonderful question deleted??" bleats. Suck it up and do better next time.
posted by languagehat at 6:46 AM on October 25, 2006

You know, a lot of these deleted chatfilter AskMes could have been great posts in the blue. If you are interested in reactions to mortality, maybe do a little reading, find some interesting links on the subject, and make your question part of a post on the front page? Some of my favorites posts ever (crazy stuff you believed when you were a kid, say) started that way.
posted by CunningLinguist at 7:09 AM on October 25, 2006 [1 favorite]

That's a great piece of advice from CunningLinguist. I did exactly that once in those dark pre-AskMe ages. A friend of mine had signed up for a Landmark Education Corporation seminar and I was quite concerned. I wanted to get some non-vested opinions on Landmark, so I put together a FPP about it so I could indirectly pick everyone's brains. The resulting thread made a respectable showing. No one seemed to mind or guess what I was really up to. And I felt considerably easier in my mind.

This is the information age, and AskMe is far from the only resource we have. Be a little resourceful and figure out some other way to get the answers you want.
posted by orange swan at 7:16 AM on October 25, 2006

Yeah, the poster should have tacked on "for a female friend who's writing about this sort of thing." Do the moderators completely lack judgment?
posted by caddis at 7:36 AM on October 25, 2006

42
posted by googly at 7:50 AM on October 25, 2006

the poster should have tacked on "for a female friend who's writing about this sort of thing." - caddis

*shudder* That thread exactly fit the chatfilter bill: - no problem to be solved, no 'correct' answer.
posted by raedyn at 7:59 AM on October 25, 2006

Or, y'know, not. Sorry, still smartin' a bit.

There is a whole other thread for talking about why that post was removed.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 8:17 AM on October 25, 2006

42
posted by googly at 9:50 AM CST on October 25

Ok. Whatever this is, I'm sure it is going to get annoying.

Stop.
posted by dios at 8:30 AM on October 25, 2006

Ok. Whatever this is, I'm sure it is going to get annoying.

This is what it is. Overuse will make it annoying, yes.


So, what does it [hive mind] means then, Rhomboid?

A group mind or group ego in science fiction is a single consciousness occupying many bodies. There are other meanings, but they are equally far-removed from the way it's usually used here.
posted by Kirth Gerson at 9:45 AM on October 25, 2006

I recieved a nice e-mail from a user explaining to me that "42" is a reference to a sci-fi book in which there was a theory that "42" was the meaning of life or something to that effect. As such, my failure to recognize it was a fault of my woefully inadequate knowledge of science fiction. Not seeing any contextual clues, I had assumed that googly was just randomly adding noise for some unknown purpose, so I apologize to googly for assuming that was the case and chastising him for it. I can see that there was some tangential relationship of the number to the topic of this post (although I'm not sure where it fits in the previous one). Mea culpa.
posted by dios at 9:48 AM on October 25, 2006

I object to Dios' calling the Hitchhiker series science fiction. I also object to the next comment posted.
posted by Mister_A at 10:09 AM on October 25, 2006

It's ok, dios. It was both a reference to a novel and random noise.
posted by Karmakaze at 10:22 AM on October 25, 2006

If this were a hive-mind then you would not have to actually post anything, explain the problem, provide background information, etc. You would just know or sense the general feeling from all the members at once. In fact the very thing that makes AskMe useful -- that it has a large and diverse membership of people from various demographics, locations, backgrounds, philosophies, tastes, experiences, and levels of education -- makes it pretty much the opposite of a hive mind. A true hive mind does not have contrary opposing opinions and spirited debate.
posted by Rhomboid at 10:26 AM on October 25, 2006

Ahem.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:38 AM on October 25, 2006

Apology accepted, dios. Thanks.

FWIW, its my small, geeky protest at the seemingly unending stream of threads that we have been getting in Metatalk in which someone complains that their AskMe question shouldn't have been deleted because, well, it was about something super-important and philosophically deep about, well, life, the universe, everything.

And Kirth, you're right - overuse will make it annoying.

I'll stop. I promise.
posted by googly at 1:21 PM on October 25, 2006

dios, if you haven't read the five volumes of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy trilogy, you must stop everything until you do so. Much of the internet is meaningless with out an intimate knowledge of these books.
posted by timeistight at 2:28 PM on October 25, 2006 [1 favorite]

We could call it PhilMe.

A name that just begs to be described with the IMG tag,
posted by desuetude at 3:11 PM on October 25, 2006

if you haven't read the five volumes of the Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy trilogy, you must stop everything until you do so. Much of the internet is meaningless with out an intimate knowledge of these books. - timeistight

You only think he's exaggerating.
posted by raedyn at 3:31 PM on October 25, 2006

Sorry, still smartin' a bit.

Oh, please, that question sucked in so many ways it's hilarious you're still whining about its deletion.

mattamyn, here's my vote for you to just start immediately deleting any MeTa thread about a deleted AskMe. At least for a few months, until some sense gets knocked into these people.
posted by mediareport at 3:47 PM on October 25, 2006

I like the interesting discussions that sometimes arise about philosophical issues, and metachat really doesn't encourage that - someone above called it a "rec room" and that's more accurate - it's fun and cute, but doesn't tend toward thoughtful conversation for the most part. However, the downside of those questions as internet board chat is that they're pretty much unanswerable, and most general approaches have been taken by countless authors who have spent a lot more time clarifying the ideas than a 2 minute post allows for. So it ends up just kind of being a less good philosophy class. However, before I went back to grad school, I very much enjoyed my amateur philosophizing on bulletin boards all over town. MeFi was the closest thing I found to Salon's Table Talk after that closed, but that was just open discussion about anything (divided into categories like askme is, except they were categories for discussion). I have often thought a spin-off for philosophy would be good - I was thinking "MetaPhylter" for metaphysics... but there are probably other equivalents out there already.

dios, it's british humor. My entire family read every volume of the hitchhiker series when they came out - here he is on dave back then.
posted by mdn at 4:37 PM on October 25, 2006

We could call it PhilMe.

Or better yet, PhilFi. Or PhiFi. Or PhiPhi.
posted by ORthey at 4:54 PM on October 25, 2006

mattamyn, here's my vote for you to just start immediately deleting any MeTa thread about a deleted AskMe. At least for a few months, until some sense gets knocked into these people.

Seconded.
posted by languagehat at 5:00 PM on October 25, 2006