Born Every Minute July 21, 2007 9:09 PM Subscribe
I strongly disagree with This Thread being posted.
ohhh...
(it's her choice to help him or not, sgt., and as for the weed, think of it as medicinal?)
posted by amberglow at 9:11 PM on July 21, 2007
(it's her choice to help him or not, sgt., and as for the weed, think of it as medicinal?)
posted by amberglow at 9:11 PM on July 21, 2007
After all the petty nitpicking i see admin wise in askme - this thread is a disaster - anyone thats even lived across the street form a rehab could see the dynamic in this post.
posted by sgt.serenity at 9:12 PM on July 21, 2007
posted by sgt.serenity at 9:12 PM on July 21, 2007
There is plenty of good advice about this kind of thing on the internet. I agree.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 9:13 PM on July 21, 2007
posted by Samuel Farrow at 9:13 PM on July 21, 2007
Are you fucking kidding? Encourages drug use? Did you not look into the thread? How the hell does the prospect of shitting and vomiting on a road trip while you can't sleep and break out into sweats encourage drug use?
She's a sucker if she finances his drug habit and pretends he really doesn't have one, imagining him still chippering on the weekends. Preparing for a hellish car ride with a user kicking the habit is not being a sucker.
posted by geoff. at 9:14 PM on July 21, 2007 [8 favorites]
She's a sucker if she finances his drug habit and pretends he really doesn't have one, imagining him still chippering on the weekends. Preparing for a hellish car ride with a user kicking the habit is not being a sucker.
posted by geoff. at 9:14 PM on July 21, 2007 [8 favorites]
I think there is a lot of crap posted on AskMeFi. A lot of inane relationship type stuff that has no answer or the see a lawyer crap.
This is not in that category. This is a great question and use of our fellow netizens. The boyfriend is trying to come clean. Girlfriend wants to help. What could possibly be wrong with this? It is not illegal to withdraw from heroin.
How does this post encourage illegal drug use? Get over it. Maybe someone reading it will see how hard it is to withdraw and it will prevent them from starting.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:15 PM on July 21, 2007
This is not in that category. This is a great question and use of our fellow netizens. The boyfriend is trying to come clean. Girlfriend wants to help. What could possibly be wrong with this? It is not illegal to withdraw from heroin.
How does this post encourage illegal drug use? Get over it. Maybe someone reading it will see how hard it is to withdraw and it will prevent them from starting.
posted by JohnnyGunn at 9:15 PM on July 21, 2007
Preparing for a hellish car ride with a user kicking the habit is not being a sucker.
can the guy not get a fucking bus ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 9:18 PM on July 21, 2007
can the guy not get a fucking bus ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 9:18 PM on July 21, 2007
JohnnyGunn I was almost going to hiss - it is called rock bottom because there is nobody left to help.
But thinking about it, you make sense, if it helps...
posted by Samuel Farrow at 9:18 PM on July 21, 2007
But thinking about it, you make sense, if it helps...
posted by Samuel Farrow at 9:18 PM on July 21, 2007
So you're petitioning the admins to take down an anonymous question, which requires admin approval to post. ... These threads come up sometimes, and usually an admin to step in to explain why the post got the go-ahead, so I'll skip trying to do it for them.
Also, sure, the poster is probably naive about it, but that's where someone can mention legal/safe tips on getting off heroin plus an "oh, by the way, I hope I'm misreading your question but it sounds like you believe X when statistics show that Y."
posted by Tuwa at 9:21 PM on July 21, 2007
Also, sure, the poster is probably naive about it, but that's where someone can mention legal/safe tips on getting off heroin plus an "oh, by the way, I hope I'm misreading your question but it sounds like you believe X when statistics show that Y."
posted by Tuwa at 9:21 PM on July 21, 2007
I strongly disagree with This Thread being posted.
That's great but who cares? It was already approved by an admin so calling it out here is pointless. And anyway, this callout sucks.
posted by puke & cry at 9:22 PM on July 21, 2007 [9 favorites]
That's great but who cares? It was already approved by an admin so calling it out here is pointless. And anyway, this callout sucks.
posted by puke & cry at 9:22 PM on July 21, 2007 [9 favorites]
Theres also the matter of anyone that has a half decent response that isn't touchy feely (the answers to these types of questions aren't) will generally have their comment deleted.
posted by sgt.serenity at 9:23 PM on July 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by sgt.serenity at 9:23 PM on July 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
Dude, if you would just cook up a fix none of this would bother you.
I know burhan my dear, and if you would just be my personal, heroic little chauffeur...........life would be wonderful.
posted by sgt.serenity at 9:26 PM on July 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
I know burhan my dear, and if you would just be my personal, heroic little chauffeur...........life would be wonderful.
posted by sgt.serenity at 9:26 PM on July 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
And plus the admin posted a comment on Anon's behalf. I don't see what's wrong with that thread, either.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:26 PM on July 21, 2007
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 9:26 PM on July 21, 2007
The poster is being taken for a sucker by her boyfriend.
Possibly. On the other hand, if she is, deleting the thread probably won't change anything. So why not just take a few pills and chill out, eh, Sarge?
posted by octobersurprise at 9:28 PM on July 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
Possibly. On the other hand, if she is, deleting the thread probably won't change anything. So why not just take a few pills and chill out, eh, Sarge?
posted by octobersurprise at 9:28 PM on July 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
Even if your points are true, there is no doubt good advice being dispensed. Sgt.....DISmissed.
posted by telstar at 9:30 PM on July 21, 2007
posted by telstar at 9:30 PM on July 21, 2007
Since it's anonymous, one of the admins agreed to post it.
Theres also the matter of anyone that has a half decent response that isn't touchy feely (the answers to these types of questions aren't) will generally have their comment deleted.
The question is how do you ease the symptoms of heroin withdrawal. I seriously doubt you could post an actual answer to that question and have it deleted.
Now, of course if you think the only response to someone involved with someone with a drug dependency use is to do everything you can to make the addicts life as miserable as possible so that they hit "rock bottom" and then quit (or die! either way, no more trouble for you!) and furthermore you feel that in giving this response, you need to be a dick, then I can see how it could merit deletion.
Since you started this thread, why don't you tell us what answer you think the poster should get?
posted by delmoi at 9:30 PM on July 21, 2007
Theres also the matter of anyone that has a half decent response that isn't touchy feely (the answers to these types of questions aren't) will generally have their comment deleted.
The question is how do you ease the symptoms of heroin withdrawal. I seriously doubt you could post an actual answer to that question and have it deleted.
Now, of course if you think the only response to someone involved with someone with a drug dependency use is to do everything you can to make the addicts life as miserable as possible so that they hit "rock bottom" and then quit (or die! either way, no more trouble for you!) and furthermore you feel that in giving this response, you need to be a dick, then I can see how it could merit deletion.
Since you started this thread, why don't you tell us what answer you think the poster should get?
posted by delmoi at 9:30 PM on July 21, 2007
While illegal drug use is outside the bounds of my ethical comfort zone, I still wanted to help. Unfortunately, the brilliantly crafted comment I composed to let the OP know what a sucker she was got deleted. So now the whole thread should go.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 9:36 PM on July 21, 2007
posted by solipsophistocracy at 9:36 PM on July 21, 2007
can the guy not get a fucking bus ?
So, wait. You're claiming to be worried about this heroin addict guy's girlfriend while suggesting that a busload of poor unsuspecting people be subjected to a stranger who's kicking dope? Nice. I hope the dude lives in Scotland, there, sarge, and that you don't have a car.
posted by nevercalm at 9:36 PM on July 21, 2007 [2 favorites]
So, wait. You're claiming to be worried about this heroin addict guy's girlfriend while suggesting that a busload of poor unsuspecting people be subjected to a stranger who's kicking dope? Nice. I hope the dude lives in Scotland, there, sarge, and that you don't have a car.
posted by nevercalm at 9:36 PM on July 21, 2007 [2 favorites]
Why not just strongly disagree with the entire internet's existence as a whole, then?
Sorry, but the philosophy that the world would be better off if we just didn't talk about any of the bad things that exist in it is not only something I disagree with - it's utterly fucking retarded.
The thread should exist, and kids should be forced to read it by a parent who will explain to them that it's a real person asking a real question of internet strangers in desperation because of the harm that heroin has caused someone.
Wake the fuck up. Kids need to learn about things in an informed, frank and honest manner. It's often their lack of exposure to real information about these things that causes them to end up abusing them in the first place...
posted by twiggy at 9:47 PM on July 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
Sorry, but the philosophy that the world would be better off if we just didn't talk about any of the bad things that exist in it is not only something I disagree with - it's utterly fucking retarded.
The thread should exist, and kids should be forced to read it by a parent who will explain to them that it's a real person asking a real question of internet strangers in desperation because of the harm that heroin has caused someone.
Wake the fuck up. Kids need to learn about things in an informed, frank and honest manner. It's often their lack of exposure to real information about these things that causes them to end up abusing them in the first place...
posted by twiggy at 9:47 PM on July 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
1. It encourages illegal drug use.
It's an attempt to save a life.
Think quick now: more important or not?
posted by scheptech at 9:49 PM on July 21, 2007
It's an attempt to save a life.
Think quick now: more important or not?
posted by scheptech at 9:49 PM on July 21, 2007
I strongly disagree with This Thread being posted.
Can we have it closed?
posted by B(oYo)BIES at 9:52 PM on July 21, 2007
Can we have it closed?
posted by B(oYo)BIES at 9:52 PM on July 21, 2007
Damn, sorry fandango_matt.. didn't see that. Good call.
posted by B(oYo)BIES at 9:52 PM on July 21, 2007
posted by B(oYo)BIES at 9:52 PM on July 21, 2007
She's a sucker for helping someone to stop doing illegal drugs.
By doing so, this encourages illegal drug use.
WTF? Worst callout...in a while.
posted by rtha at 9:57 PM on July 21, 2007
By doing so, this encourages illegal drug use.
WTF? Worst callout...in a while.
posted by rtha at 9:57 PM on July 21, 2007
Another perfect lesson in how not to react to an AskMe you don't like. Thanks, sarge.
posted by mediareport at 9:59 PM on July 21, 2007
posted by mediareport at 9:59 PM on July 21, 2007
1. It encourages illegal drug use.
2. The poster is being taken for a sucker by her boyfriend.
That's nuthin', this AskMe encourages watching Jennifer Lopez movies and the gal in question is being taken for a stereotypical 'chick' by her boyfriend.
Yeah, I answered it. But with the laziest answer possible.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:02 PM on July 21, 2007
2. The poster is being taken for a sucker by her boyfriend.
That's nuthin', this AskMe encourages watching Jennifer Lopez movies and the gal in question is being taken for a stereotypical 'chick' by her boyfriend.
Yeah, I answered it. But with the laziest answer possible.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:02 PM on July 21, 2007
Heroin withdrawal symptoms may be offensive to you, but they aren't yet illegal. LOLZWITHDRAWAL
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:03 PM on July 21, 2007
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:03 PM on July 21, 2007
You've got to be fucking kidding. No, really. You've got to be fucking kidding.
“1. It encourages illegal drug use.”
Who the fuck cares?
“2. The poster is being taken for a sucker by her boyfriend.”
Who the fuck cares?
Heavy heroin use can kill you, withdrawal cannot. Heavy alcohol use can kill you, so can withdrawal. Until I see you start moralizing about alcohol related questions, then you can take your tremendous lack of moral perspective and shove it up your ass.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:09 PM on July 21, 2007 [9 favorites]
“1. It encourages illegal drug use.”
Who the fuck cares?
“2. The poster is being taken for a sucker by her boyfriend.”
Who the fuck cares?
Heavy heroin use can kill you, withdrawal cannot. Heavy alcohol use can kill you, so can withdrawal. Until I see you start moralizing about alcohol related questions, then you can take your tremendous lack of moral perspective and shove it up your ass.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:09 PM on July 21, 2007 [9 favorites]
Alright, alright, I'm sure sgt.serenity has got the message. No need to bash him further.
It's important that a question like this is allowed and garners a variety of answers.
posted by peacay at 10:13 PM on July 21, 2007
It's important that a question like this is allowed and garners a variety of answers.
posted by peacay at 10:13 PM on July 21, 2007
Opphhh EB.
posted by Samuel Farrow at 10:20 PM on July 21, 2007
posted by Samuel Farrow at 10:20 PM on July 21, 2007
anyone thats even lived across the street form a rehab could see the dynamic in this post.
Maybe, if we read into it. However, we don't read stuff into questions if at all possible. We know what the OP has told us and she's looking for help with a pretty specifically spelled out problem. Seriously, all AskMe questions should be this well-stated with clear premises and objective.
Nothing about that question encourages illegal drug use. If anything, it's made me AGAIN be happy that heroin was not on my list of drugs I looked into during my experimental phase.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:21 PM on July 21, 2007
Maybe, if we read into it. However, we don't read stuff into questions if at all possible. We know what the OP has told us and she's looking for help with a pretty specifically spelled out problem. Seriously, all AskMe questions should be this well-stated with clear premises and objective.
Nothing about that question encourages illegal drug use. If anything, it's made me AGAIN be happy that heroin was not on my list of drugs I looked into during my experimental phase.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 10:21 PM on July 21, 2007
Please tell me everything you know about the first few days of amputation, in particular, ways to live with no feet.
Surely a better question is asking whether or not they should cut their legs off?
posted by Samuel Farrow at 10:40 PM on July 21, 2007
Surely a better question is asking whether or not they should cut their legs off?
posted by Samuel Farrow at 10:40 PM on July 21, 2007
Sarge, making a metaphorical fist in anger about this is somehow paralleled in my mind to the one that's done just before the insertion of the needle.
Maybe very few here know what I'm talking about or understand how I feel this is semi-ironic.
posted by Kickstart70 at 10:44 PM on July 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
Maybe very few here know what I'm talking about or understand how I feel this is semi-ironic.
posted by Kickstart70 at 10:44 PM on July 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
EB,
Heroin withdrawal CAN kill you.
aside from that, well said.
posted by The Esteemed Doctor Bunsen Honeydew at 10:51 PM on July 21, 2007
Heroin withdrawal CAN kill you.
aside from that, well said.
posted by The Esteemed Doctor Bunsen Honeydew at 10:51 PM on July 21, 2007
not going to be subscribing to THIS thread.
The question is not illegal, nor does it glorify any illegal activity. Junkies are human beings, sometimes they are also decent people who don't deserve to be ignored and thrown away. Unless you have specific intelligence that this relationship is abusive and exploitative I humbly suggest deep breathing and moving on to something else.
posted by edgeways at 10:53 PM on July 21, 2007
The question is not illegal, nor does it glorify any illegal activity. Junkies are human beings, sometimes they are also decent people who don't deserve to be ignored and thrown away. Unless you have specific intelligence that this relationship is abusive and exploitative I humbly suggest deep breathing and moving on to something else.
posted by edgeways at 10:53 PM on July 21, 2007
can the guy not get a fucking bus ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 2:18 PM on July 22
This serenity; I do not think it means what you think it means.
Here's hoping your friends know you well enough that if they ever needed help like this, they'd look elsewhere.
posted by dreamsign at 10:53 PM on July 21, 2007
posted by sgt.serenity at 2:18 PM on July 22
This serenity; I do not think it means what you think it means.
Here's hoping your friends know you well enough that if they ever needed help like this, they'd look elsewhere.
posted by dreamsign at 10:53 PM on July 21, 2007
“Heroin withdrawal CAN kill you.”
That's contrary to everything I've read. Not that everything I've read about something hasn't occasionally been entirely wrong. Cite?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:00 PM on July 21, 2007
That's contrary to everything I've read. Not that everything I've read about something hasn't occasionally been entirely wrong. Cite?
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 11:00 PM on July 21, 2007
Try Googling heroin+withdrawal+fatal.
posted by ottereroticist at 11:09 PM on July 21, 2007
posted by ottereroticist at 11:09 PM on July 21, 2007
Whoa, somebody needs to smoke a bowl and cooool out!
posted by ludwig_van at 11:16 PM on July 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by ludwig_van at 11:16 PM on July 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
I don't know if heroin withdrawal can kill, but I know this thread gave me a rash in the naughty bits.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:18 PM on July 21, 2007
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:18 PM on July 21, 2007
i think what sarge is saying is: the membership here is to the codependent partner as the codependent partner is to the manipulative addict.
posted by quonsar at 11:34 PM on July 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by quonsar at 11:34 PM on July 21, 2007 [1 favorite]
As soon as I read that thread I thought, "Man, someone is totally going to call this out on Meta for condoning drug use." Then I thought, "Nah, we're uptight, but not that uptight!" Oops.
posted by wemayfreeze at 12:04 AM on July 22, 2007
posted by wemayfreeze at 12:04 AM on July 22, 2007
It's not an appropriate question because the answer is the oft repeated, "SEE A DOCTOR."
None of us are qualified to give medical advice over this forum. Look at the first damn post,"imodium and xanax. Says my brother."
Yeah guys, great, lets have some guy on the internets brother advising a heroin addict to take a prescription medicine that is also very addictive in its own right.
"This is for my boyfriend and yes, we'll be talking treatment and yes, he'll eventually be seeing a doctor and stuff, but right now it looks like I'm going to be driving 600 or so miles to pick him up and then turning around and driving him home. "
Why don't you find that doctor you will 'eventually' take him to, and ASK HIM?
posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:13 AM on July 22, 2007
None of us are qualified to give medical advice over this forum. Look at the first damn post,"imodium and xanax. Says my brother."
Yeah guys, great, lets have some guy on the internets brother advising a heroin addict to take a prescription medicine that is also very addictive in its own right.
"This is for my boyfriend and yes, we'll be talking treatment and yes, he'll eventually be seeing a doctor and stuff, but right now it looks like I'm going to be driving 600 or so miles to pick him up and then turning around and driving him home. "
Why don't you find that doctor you will 'eventually' take him to, and ASK HIM?
posted by furiousxgeorge at 12:13 AM on July 22, 2007
ottereroticist: Try Googling heroin+withdrawal+fatal.
First link says this,
"Sudden withdrawal by heavily dependent users who are in poor health is occasionally fatal, although heroin withdrawal is considered less dangerous than alcohol or barbiturate withdrawal."
Third link,
"Although the signs/symptoms of heroin withdrawal can be temporarily debilitating, heroin withdrawal is rarely fatal in an otherwise healthy adult. However, heroin withdrawal by a heavily dependent users who are also in poor general health can occasionally cause death, and studies have shown that heroin withdrawal can terminate pregnancy in a pregnant addict. Despite these risks, heroin withdrawal is rarely fatal, and is considered much less dangerous than withdrawal from alcohol or another barbiturate."
So, withdrawal CAN kill you, but with 'CAN' signifying a non-zero risk, not an appreciable probability.
posted by daksya at 12:34 AM on July 22, 2007
First link says this,
"Sudden withdrawal by heavily dependent users who are in poor health is occasionally fatal, although heroin withdrawal is considered less dangerous than alcohol or barbiturate withdrawal."
Third link,
"Although the signs/symptoms of heroin withdrawal can be temporarily debilitating, heroin withdrawal is rarely fatal in an otherwise healthy adult. However, heroin withdrawal by a heavily dependent users who are also in poor general health can occasionally cause death, and studies have shown that heroin withdrawal can terminate pregnancy in a pregnant addict. Despite these risks, heroin withdrawal is rarely fatal, and is considered much less dangerous than withdrawal from alcohol or another barbiturate."
So, withdrawal CAN kill you, but with 'CAN' signifying a non-zero risk, not an appreciable probability.
posted by daksya at 12:34 AM on July 22, 2007
I really like the bits in the thread where people feel as though theyve kicked my ass with their comments - thats hilarious - oh yeah guys - i'm really suffering here.
The point of this is - she's being taken for a sucker.
You'll find that the boyfriend has MERELY RUN OUT OF MONEY rather than heroin, he'll have even happen to have a little bit for that ardous car journey, he also won't bother going to treatment either.
Now, this is impossible to answer on a place like metafilter - simply because of the er- 'ass kicking' responses - it would be great if any you knew what you were talking about but let's face it - be honest - none of you know what the F**k you're on about, do you ?
C'mon, be honest, just admit it,i won't tell anyone : )
It's my personal opinion that theres a few people think theyre superman on these two threads - admin, poster and comments alike and that this is the only purpose of the thread rather than helping the person.
Anyway, i've finally got to evanizers being ' licked by puppies' level : )
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:26 AM on July 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
The point of this is - she's being taken for a sucker.
You'll find that the boyfriend has MERELY RUN OUT OF MONEY rather than heroin, he'll have even happen to have a little bit for that ardous car journey, he also won't bother going to treatment either.
Now, this is impossible to answer on a place like metafilter - simply because of the er- 'ass kicking' responses - it would be great if any you knew what you were talking about but let's face it - be honest - none of you know what the F**k you're on about, do you ?
C'mon, be honest, just admit it,i won't tell anyone : )
It's my personal opinion that theres a few people think theyre superman on these two threads - admin, poster and comments alike and that this is the only purpose of the thread rather than helping the person.
Anyway, i've finally got to evanizers being ' licked by puppies' level : )
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:26 AM on July 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
Dear sgt.serenity, you're wrong.
Yours faithfully
peacay.
posted by peacay at 4:42 AM on July 22, 2007
Yours faithfully
peacay.
posted by peacay at 4:42 AM on July 22, 2007
clean up on aisle sarge.
posted by Avenger at 4:46 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by Avenger at 4:46 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
Yeah, she might be the one behind the wheel, but she's definitely getting taken for a ride. So what? There's been the requisite "this is not a good idea" in the thread, but she's a big girl and can make her own decisions. Maybe it'll work out, and if not, she'll have learned a valuable lesson in codependency.
As to the advocation of the illegal use of drugs, you've been on Metafilter far longer than I. Surely by now you have realized that a number of users are, well, users. Even some of the non-users believe that our laws are wrong. Many people cheerfully disobey laws that they find to be obviously hypocritical.
I have no idea how home-brewed attempts to kick fare against the same attempts in a clinical setting, but notice that both sides are presented there, so the poster is getting valuable information, whether or not they visit a doc or go with The Sickboy Method.
I don't see how the thread (or the responses to this one) could be of any possible surprise to you, and I don't know what you are trying to accomplish by complaining about it, unless you just get your jollies by feeling that everyone is against you.
posted by adipocere at 4:57 AM on July 22, 2007
As to the advocation of the illegal use of drugs, you've been on Metafilter far longer than I. Surely by now you have realized that a number of users are, well, users. Even some of the non-users believe that our laws are wrong. Many people cheerfully disobey laws that they find to be obviously hypocritical.
I have no idea how home-brewed attempts to kick fare against the same attempts in a clinical setting, but notice that both sides are presented there, so the poster is getting valuable information, whether or not they visit a doc or go with The Sickboy Method.
I don't see how the thread (or the responses to this one) could be of any possible surprise to you, and I don't know what you are trying to accomplish by complaining about it, unless you just get your jollies by feeling that everyone is against you.
posted by adipocere at 4:57 AM on July 22, 2007
Yes, sgt.serenity, obviously absolutely every single person in the world who uses a drug is exactly the same.
Thanks for coming out.
posted by blacklite at 5:09 AM on July 22, 2007
Thanks for coming out.
posted by blacklite at 5:09 AM on July 22, 2007
EB FTW.
posted by flabdablet at 5:14 AM on July 22, 2007
posted by flabdablet at 5:14 AM on July 22, 2007
I don't know if i'm going to accomplish anything really - other than help keep metatalk the best part of mefi : )
There's certainly a double standard going on though - deleting stuff because it's chatfilter and then allowing this type of drama filled nonsense post where the poster asks a question where if she gets the right answer - will actually ignore it - wouldnt it be better to have a couple of links to professionals coming up when people try to post these types of thread ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:16 AM on July 22, 2007
There's certainly a double standard going on though - deleting stuff because it's chatfilter and then allowing this type of drama filled nonsense post where the poster asks a question where if she gets the right answer - will actually ignore it - wouldnt it be better to have a couple of links to professionals coming up when people try to post these types of thread ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:16 AM on July 22, 2007
Yes we should all make judgment calls, in every single question, asking ourselves, "will the poster really do exactly what I'm telling her?" (or him?)
The point of AskMetafilter is, in an ideal situation, people ask questions that have clear answers; we give it to them.
This is like the astrology question. It's not your job to decide whether a person shouldn't be asking the question, or is misguided to be asking the question, or will really listen to your answer.
They ask questions, you give answers, you shut the fuck up and go home because you're done because that's how AskMetafilter works. If you don't have an answer, or if you have decided in your infinite wisdom that the poster will not listen to you and so there's no point, don't answer.
This bothers me most of all because the poster is absolutely genuine-seeming and besides that what are we supposed to do with heroin addicts? Shoot them? They have to get over it at some point. I don't know what exposure you've had to heroin, heroin addiction, heroin withdrawal, or anything like that – maybe it's extensive, and you should share your insight with Anonymous. Maybe it isn't.
This isn't chatfilter. This isn't an open-ended discussion question. This was a straightforward, simple inquiry about what you can do to make a shitty situation better. If this Metatalk thread wasn't here I'm pretty sure all the community at large would have done was go "huh", check out the thread perhaps, and move on. Instead, now we have this, where you've decided – with no more information than anyone else has – that the poster is a sucker, that the person she's trying to help cannot be helped, and that you understand every nuance of the situation entirely and that a community of fifty thousand people should completely ignore the problem because obviously it's a lost cause.
If you can come up with some kind of special auto-detection scheme for "these types of thread" (whatever your definition of that may be) and the proper links, perhaps Matt can take it under consideration.
Until then, maybe you should just post your couple of links in the thread. And stop being an ass.
posted by blacklite at 5:36 AM on July 22, 2007 [3 favorites]
The point of AskMetafilter is, in an ideal situation, people ask questions that have clear answers; we give it to them.
This is like the astrology question. It's not your job to decide whether a person shouldn't be asking the question, or is misguided to be asking the question, or will really listen to your answer.
They ask questions, you give answers, you shut the fuck up and go home because you're done because that's how AskMetafilter works. If you don't have an answer, or if you have decided in your infinite wisdom that the poster will not listen to you and so there's no point, don't answer.
This bothers me most of all because the poster is absolutely genuine-seeming and besides that what are we supposed to do with heroin addicts? Shoot them? They have to get over it at some point. I don't know what exposure you've had to heroin, heroin addiction, heroin withdrawal, or anything like that – maybe it's extensive, and you should share your insight with Anonymous. Maybe it isn't.
This isn't chatfilter. This isn't an open-ended discussion question. This was a straightforward, simple inquiry about what you can do to make a shitty situation better. If this Metatalk thread wasn't here I'm pretty sure all the community at large would have done was go "huh", check out the thread perhaps, and move on. Instead, now we have this, where you've decided – with no more information than anyone else has – that the poster is a sucker, that the person she's trying to help cannot be helped, and that you understand every nuance of the situation entirely and that a community of fifty thousand people should completely ignore the problem because obviously it's a lost cause.
If you can come up with some kind of special auto-detection scheme for "these types of thread" (whatever your definition of that may be) and the proper links, perhaps Matt can take it under consideration.
Until then, maybe you should just post your couple of links in the thread. And stop being an ass.
posted by blacklite at 5:36 AM on July 22, 2007 [3 favorites]
i think what sarge is saying is: the membership here is to the codependent partner as the codependent partner is to the manipulative addict.
perhaps so, but he's saying it in the most brain dead manner possible ... and with his repeated insistence on arguing about it, he's showing a little codependent behavior towards this web site, himself
posted by pyramid termite at 5:40 AM on July 22, 2007
perhaps so, but he's saying it in the most brain dead manner possible ... and with his repeated insistence on arguing about it, he's showing a little codependent behavior towards this web site, himself
posted by pyramid termite at 5:40 AM on July 22, 2007
Wait, the first objection was that it advocates the use of illegal drugs. Then it was that she's being taken for a ride. Now it's that this kind of question is chatfilter.
Mmmm, shifting-reasons-for-Iraq-war defense.
posted by adipocere at 5:46 AM on July 22, 2007
Mmmm, shifting-reasons-for-Iraq-war defense.
posted by adipocere at 5:46 AM on July 22, 2007
the most helpful, healthy response the OP could give her beleagered soulmate is "find your own way home, junkie douchebag, and don't come sniffing around here when you do".
really, all these hand-wringy, codependent martyrs and gushing hero-worship types must be what you get when an entire generation is reared with its head up the ass of the corpo-tainment media complex.
posted by quonsar at 5:48 AM on July 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
really, all these hand-wringy, codependent martyrs and gushing hero-worship types must be what you get when an entire generation is reared with its head up the ass of the corpo-tainment media complex.
posted by quonsar at 5:48 AM on July 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
::hugs quonsar and offers words of comfort, support and reassurement::
We'll get you some help for your anger, don't worry! You're a beautiful flower who's just been planted wrong. But we'll replant you in the sun and soon you'll bloom into the full flowered goodness that is you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:15 AM on July 22, 2007
We'll get you some help for your anger, don't worry! You're a beautiful flower who's just been planted wrong. But we'll replant you in the sun and soon you'll bloom into the full flowered goodness that is you.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 6:15 AM on July 22, 2007
::hugs quonsar and offers words of comfort, support and reassurement::
actually, the only ride she should be giving him is the one to rehab
quonsar's point is valid
posted by pyramid termite at 6:31 AM on July 22, 2007
actually, the only ride she should be giving him is the one to rehab
quonsar's point is valid
posted by pyramid termite at 6:31 AM on July 22, 2007
*waves at sgt. serenity*
That wasn't a wave -- it was a gesture signifying a hand-job.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 6:38 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
That wasn't a wave -- it was a gesture signifying a hand-job.
posted by PeterMcDermott at 6:38 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
codependent martyrs and gushing hero-worship types must be what you get when an entire generation is reared with its head up the ass of the corpo-tainment media complex
Heroin chic will never die?
posted by solipsophistocracy at 6:40 AM on July 22, 2007
Heroin chic will never die?
posted by solipsophistocracy at 6:40 AM on July 22, 2007
I am not a heroin survivor, but I've quit just about every other substance than mankind has dreamed up. This shit isn't easy, and people need help, wherever it comes from -- a doctor, the guy answering the phone at the local NA club, or a website. This girl has a daunting task ahead of her, and being judgmental is of no use. Sgt. Serenity, I'd say this thread is at odds with your username.
posted by Devils Rancher at 6:44 AM on July 22, 2007
posted by Devils Rancher at 6:44 AM on July 22, 2007
Well, Sarge is probably right about the bf just running out of money and all. That answer, logically, deserves to be in the AskMe thread itself. However, AskMe is not always logical. Try putting such an answer in and quite often the robots will flag the hell out of it as being non-responsive to the question and then poof, it is gone. Whatever else was intended, Sarge at least got his point across to the gf through this thread and she now has something to think about. (it is still a legitimate q for AskMe and I completely fail to see how it promotes drug use, other than by the bf after he gets some money from his gf.)
posted by caddis at 6:46 AM on July 22, 2007
posted by caddis at 6:46 AM on July 22, 2007
EnableFilter!
I think Sarge's assessment of the OP's situation is likely dead-on, and that junkie boyfriend probably really is an emotional vampire who will leave co-dependent girlfriend a soulless husk. 'Cause! He's a junkie. Surprise! Should be left for dead? No, but there are people who have made a life of dealing with this sort of behavior, and it should absolutely be them dealing with him and not her. Any answer that isn't "you shouldn't be dealing with this; it's beyond you, and won't help either of you" seems kind of irresponsible and/or naive to me. On the other hand, no such answer can be given in a case where the question is not allowed to be posed. On the freakish mutant third hand, if it's "mean" or "unhelpful" to sidestep the question and urge her to turn the situation over to the professionals (or the semi-professionals, as case may be), then I can't see how anything profitable can come from the question. It is truly a conundrum (which is probably why I didn't reply to the question -- I learned that lesson!).
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:47 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
I think Sarge's assessment of the OP's situation is likely dead-on, and that junkie boyfriend probably really is an emotional vampire who will leave co-dependent girlfriend a soulless husk. 'Cause! He's a junkie. Surprise! Should be left for dead? No, but there are people who have made a life of dealing with this sort of behavior, and it should absolutely be them dealing with him and not her. Any answer that isn't "you shouldn't be dealing with this; it's beyond you, and won't help either of you" seems kind of irresponsible and/or naive to me. On the other hand, no such answer can be given in a case where the question is not allowed to be posed. On the freakish mutant third hand, if it's "mean" or "unhelpful" to sidestep the question and urge her to turn the situation over to the professionals (or the semi-professionals, as case may be), then I can't see how anything profitable can come from the question. It is truly a conundrum (which is probably why I didn't reply to the question -- I learned that lesson!).
posted by kittens for breakfast at 6:47 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
Has quonsar ever posted a serious comment before?
I think that the girl is being taken for a ride too. That being said, she asked a straightforward question and deserves straightforward answers.
posted by SteveTheRed at 7:08 AM on July 22, 2007
I think that the girl is being taken for a ride too. That being said, she asked a straightforward question and deserves straightforward answers.
posted by SteveTheRed at 7:08 AM on July 22, 2007
There's certainly a double standard going on though - deleting stuff because it's chatfilter and then allowing this type of drama filled nonsense post where the poster asks a question where if she gets the right answer - will actually ignore it - wouldnt it be better to have a couple of links to professionals coming up when people try to post these types of thread ?
It's not chatfilter. Where is the chatting? Where's the "please give me your tales of heroin withdrawal and then let's have a group hug" request in the question? Where's the drama, for fuck's sake? There's no 'my boyfriend doesn't love me' in the post. There's no 'wah wah help'.
It's not chatfilter or drama because it has a very specific question with equally specific answers. Now, one of those potential answers is 'rehab' -- and it's almost certainly the best answer. But she's not asking for a detailed analysis of her codependent life (if that's what it is), she's merely asking 'help me help my boyfriend'.
It doesn't MATTER that she's a sucker. That's not the damn question. There's no leeway in the question for 'you're a codependent sucker'. There's leeway for 'rehab', for answers about sugar and water and whatever else. If we removed questions randomly on the basis that doing so would actually be a boon for the poster (clearly, she's an idiot for caring for the alcoholic pappy! she shouldn't be considering finding a guy who loves Big But Beautiful women, she needs to lose weight!) it would be a veritable clusterfuck. This is NOT a criteria to judge most, if any, AskMe posts.
And as said above by people far more well-spoken than me, it's not advocating drug use in-and-of itself.
And I don't know if it's sarcasm on your part -- if it is, ignore this bit -- but if you're not being sarcastic with all your :) and 'clearly you all know nothing about rehab or drug addiction' etc., stop the passive-aggressive crap while you're at it.
posted by flibbertigibbet at 7:13 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
It's not chatfilter. Where is the chatting? Where's the "please give me your tales of heroin withdrawal and then let's have a group hug" request in the question? Where's the drama, for fuck's sake? There's no 'my boyfriend doesn't love me' in the post. There's no 'wah wah help'.
It's not chatfilter or drama because it has a very specific question with equally specific answers. Now, one of those potential answers is 'rehab' -- and it's almost certainly the best answer. But she's not asking for a detailed analysis of her codependent life (if that's what it is), she's merely asking 'help me help my boyfriend'.
It doesn't MATTER that she's a sucker. That's not the damn question. There's no leeway in the question for 'you're a codependent sucker'. There's leeway for 'rehab', for answers about sugar and water and whatever else. If we removed questions randomly on the basis that doing so would actually be a boon for the poster (clearly, she's an idiot for caring for the alcoholic pappy! she shouldn't be considering finding a guy who loves Big But Beautiful women, she needs to lose weight!) it would be a veritable clusterfuck. This is NOT a criteria to judge most, if any, AskMe posts.
And as said above by people far more well-spoken than me, it's not advocating drug use in-and-of itself.
And I don't know if it's sarcasm on your part -- if it is, ignore this bit -- but if you're not being sarcastic with all your :) and 'clearly you all know nothing about rehab or drug addiction' etc., stop the passive-aggressive crap while you're at it.
posted by flibbertigibbet at 7:13 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
It doesn't MATTER that she's a sucker. That's not the damn question
dear askme -
should i put the bullet through the right or the left temple?
thanx
posted by pyramid termite at 7:36 AM on July 22, 2007
dear askme -
should i put the bullet through the right or the left temple?
thanx
posted by pyramid termite at 7:36 AM on July 22, 2007
I love how it's the people who actually endorse just answering the freaking question who are suddenly labeled over-emotional hand-wringers. They're not the ones whining about "illegal drug use" and how this poor, helpless little girl is getting taken for a ride and how she is destined to be miserable if she isn't immediately exposed to some good old tough love. So the fuck what? Let her. She'll learn or she won't. It isn't our problem or our concern and it certainly isn't the question she asked.
So stop crying into your tea over this woman that you don't even fucking know, put on your big girl panties and either answer the question (which was, as pointed out earlier, pretty damn straightforward) or don't.
On preview: goodness, pyramid termite, that's a well thought out, absolutely relevant, not at all hyperbolic example that I am sure no one else on MeTa has EVER thought of and will definitely change minds and make people think twice about disagreeing! Because, after all, the most extreme example is the most common and should set the tone for what is and isn't allowed!
posted by LeeJay at 7:48 AM on July 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
So stop crying into your tea over this woman that you don't even fucking know, put on your big girl panties and either answer the question (which was, as pointed out earlier, pretty damn straightforward) or don't.
On preview: goodness, pyramid termite, that's a well thought out, absolutely relevant, not at all hyperbolic example that I am sure no one else on MeTa has EVER thought of and will definitely change minds and make people think twice about disagreeing! Because, after all, the most extreme example is the most common and should set the tone for what is and isn't allowed!
posted by LeeJay at 7:48 AM on July 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
Your interpretation of the poster's problem is so utterly subjective, I don't even see how you see your opinion rising to the level of a MetaTalk callout.
To be honest, if your point is that heroin users are not fucking worth helping, I can understand that, especially if its based on personal experience. But I don't think you're in a position to command what other people should be doing with their lives. Especially if what other people are doing is in good faith.
posted by phaedon at 7:54 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
To be honest, if your point is that heroin users are not fucking worth helping, I can understand that, especially if its based on personal experience. But I don't think you're in a position to command what other people should be doing with their lives. Especially if what other people are doing is in good faith.
posted by phaedon at 7:54 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
The boyfriend is trying to come clean. Girlfriend wants to help.
"The boyfriend is trying to come clean. Boyfriend wants to help him."
Just saying -- Anonymous could also be 'male.'
posted by ericb at 8:13 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
"The boyfriend is trying to come clean. Boyfriend wants to help him."
Just saying -- Anonymous could also be 'male.'
posted by ericb at 8:13 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
should i put the bullet through the right or the left temple?
If you aim just right, you can get it through both.
posted by ericost at 8:13 AM on July 22, 2007
If you aim just right, you can get it through both.
posted by ericost at 8:13 AM on July 22, 2007
As a practical matter...
600 miles on a bus is, like, what, a 20 hours? More, quite possibly? Medically speaking, is it safe to go through the first 20 hours of withdrawal without someone present to keep an eye on you? Also, there's the question of bodily fluids; don't quite a lot of them come out? Wouldn't that be easier to manage on a car ride where the driver is willing to pull over as often as possible instead of on a bus where fifty people have to share one toilet? Isn't it possible the driver would just kick him off, turn him over to the cops, or call an ambulance?
And then, maybe the most compelling anti-bus argument of all... If the guy is an addict planning to kick and he's alone on this bus... doesn't he have way too many opportunities along the way to reverse his decision?
posted by Clay201 at 8:15 AM on July 22, 2007
600 miles on a bus is, like, what, a 20 hours? More, quite possibly? Medically speaking, is it safe to go through the first 20 hours of withdrawal without someone present to keep an eye on you? Also, there's the question of bodily fluids; don't quite a lot of them come out? Wouldn't that be easier to manage on a car ride where the driver is willing to pull over as often as possible instead of on a bus where fifty people have to share one toilet? Isn't it possible the driver would just kick him off, turn him over to the cops, or call an ambulance?
And then, maybe the most compelling anti-bus argument of all... If the guy is an addict planning to kick and he's alone on this bus... doesn't he have way too many opportunities along the way to reverse his decision?
posted by Clay201 at 8:15 AM on July 22, 2007
quonsar's point is valid
Maybe. But he still needs a hug.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:19 AM on July 22, 2007
Maybe. But he still needs a hug.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 8:19 AM on July 22, 2007
But I don't think you're in a position to command what other people should be doing with their lives.
Au contraire, he's Sergeant Serenity and he out ranks you. He can and will demand serene obedience.
posted by milarepa at 8:24 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
Au contraire, he's Sergeant Serenity and he out ranks you. He can and will demand serene obedience.
posted by milarepa at 8:24 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
It doesn't MATTER that she's a sucker. That's not the damn question. There's no leeway in the question for 'you're a codependent sucker'.
See what I mean about robots?
posted by caddis at 8:27 AM on July 22, 2007
See what I mean about robots?
posted by caddis at 8:27 AM on July 22, 2007
Because, after all, the most extreme example is the most common and should set the tone for what is and isn't allowed!
you don't think driving someone 600 miles while they kick heroin is extreme?
See what I mean about robots?
yep ... with some people it's all about what they get and not what others are willing to give them
posted by pyramid termite at 8:51 AM on July 22, 2007
you don't think driving someone 600 miles while they kick heroin is extreme?
See what I mean about robots?
yep ... with some people it's all about what they get and not what others are willing to give them
posted by pyramid termite at 8:51 AM on July 22, 2007
pyramid termite - do not aim at the temple. Tilt your head back, place the gun in your mouth with the barrel roughly parallel to the ground, and place the muzzle against the soft palate. Then pull the trigger. It is considered polite to have duct-taped heavy plastic dropcloths to the walls and floor of the immediate area around your project site. Also, consider leaving your note on a table across the room not in the spatter zone. Hope this helps.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 8:53 AM on July 22, 2007
posted by BitterOldPunk at 8:53 AM on July 22, 2007
thank, i'll let you know how it worked
posted by pyramid termite at 8:56 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by pyramid termite at 8:56 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
ugh, that tastes horrible ... should i use honey or hershey's chocolate to disguise the taste? ... and should i use a microwave or an oven to loosen the honey or chocolate up after i dip the gun in it?
posted by pyramid termite at 9:00 AM on July 22, 2007
posted by pyramid termite at 9:00 AM on July 22, 2007
Because, after all, the most extreme example is the most common and should set the tone for what is and isn't allowed!
you don't think driving someone 600 miles while they kick heroin is extreme?
Yes, driving 600 miles with a junkie going through withdrawals is extreme but that wasn't the question. The question was, how can a junkie alleviate some of the symptoms of withdrawal? NOT an extreme question. Reasonable, answerable question. And not in any way equivalent to "which hemisphere of my brain should I splatter all over the wall?"
(Which, granted, might end up being the poster's next question after driving 600 miles with a kicking junkie.)
posted by LeeJay at 9:07 AM on July 22, 2007
you don't think driving someone 600 miles while they kick heroin is extreme?
Yes, driving 600 miles with a junkie going through withdrawals is extreme but that wasn't the question. The question was, how can a junkie alleviate some of the symptoms of withdrawal? NOT an extreme question. Reasonable, answerable question. And not in any way equivalent to "which hemisphere of my brain should I splatter all over the wall?"
(Which, granted, might end up being the poster's next question after driving 600 miles with a kicking junkie.)
posted by LeeJay at 9:07 AM on July 22, 2007
Now, this is impossible to answer on a place like metafilter - simply because of the er- 'ass kicking' responses - it would be great if any you knew what you were talking about but let's face it - be honest - none of you know what the F**k you're on about, do you ?
Honestly, sgt., if you're clicking over to Metatalk with the pre-conceived notion that yours is a unique perspective unrecognized by all the idiots you share the site with, it might be better to close the browser at that point.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:08 AM on July 22, 2007 [3 favorites]
Honestly, sgt., if you're clicking over to Metatalk with the pre-conceived notion that yours is a unique perspective unrecognized by all the idiots you share the site with, it might be better to close the browser at that point.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:08 AM on July 22, 2007 [3 favorites]
let's face it - be honest - none of you know what the F**k you're on about, do you ?
I don't know if i'm going to accomplish anything really - other than help keep metatalk the best part of mefi : )
This is troll talk.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:14 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
I don't know if i'm going to accomplish anything really - other than help keep metatalk the best part of mefi : )
This is troll talk.
posted by Meatbomb at 9:14 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
The question was, how can a junkie alleviate some of the symptoms of withdrawal? NOT an extreme question.
of course it is ... and it's ridiculous of you to say otherwise ... it's an extreme situation, period and i can't take you seriously if you continue to insist it isn't
posted by pyramid termite at 9:21 AM on July 22, 2007
of course it is ... and it's ridiculous of you to say otherwise ... it's an extreme situation, period and i can't take you seriously if you continue to insist it isn't
posted by pyramid termite at 9:21 AM on July 22, 2007
Asking how to relieve withdrawal is both answerable and a reasonable question to ask. I don't understand what you are arguing about here. There have been LOTS of questions about addiction in the green.
posted by LeeJay at 9:44 AM on July 22, 2007
posted by LeeJay at 9:44 AM on July 22, 2007
The question was, how can a junkie alleviate some of the symptoms of withdrawal? NOT an extreme question.
I beg to differ. When the full question is, how can my boyfriend alleviate the symptoms of heroin withdrawal in my car for six hundred miles, what you're looking at is a horror movie. It's really quite extreme. I'm not sure how you guys aren't seeing that. Again, I'm not saying the question shouldn't be asked, but to say this is something she should attempt to do herself really does seem very irresponsible -- for reasons that have nothing to do with leveling a moral judgment against addicts and everything to do with wanting everyone to get home alive.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:50 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
I beg to differ. When the full question is, how can my boyfriend alleviate the symptoms of heroin withdrawal in my car for six hundred miles, what you're looking at is a horror movie. It's really quite extreme. I'm not sure how you guys aren't seeing that. Again, I'm not saying the question shouldn't be asked, but to say this is something she should attempt to do herself really does seem very irresponsible -- for reasons that have nothing to do with leveling a moral judgment against addicts and everything to do with wanting everyone to get home alive.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:50 AM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
This is troll talk.
Sounds more like drunk talk to me... I smell a MetaFilter Intervention in the making!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:09 AM on July 22, 2007
Sounds more like drunk talk to me... I smell a MetaFilter Intervention in the making!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:09 AM on July 22, 2007
i liked ethereal bligh's answer enough to favorite it. sergeant censorious moralism, this is lieutenant nonjudgmental pragmatism ordering you to stfu.
posted by bruce at 10:10 AM on July 22, 2007
posted by bruce at 10:10 AM on July 22, 2007
I don't understand what you are arguing about here.
then you don't know enough to give the question a good answer
this is the answer - a junkie alleviates the symptoms by going into rehab
if she does anything else, she's enabling him and needs to be told that and FUCK the rules
if you don't get it from this ... well, i just hope to god you never learn it from real life like i did
posted by pyramid termite at 10:11 AM on July 22, 2007
then you don't know enough to give the question a good answer
this is the answer - a junkie alleviates the symptoms by going into rehab
if she does anything else, she's enabling him and needs to be told that and FUCK the rules
if you don't get it from this ... well, i just hope to god you never learn it from real life like i did
posted by pyramid termite at 10:11 AM on July 22, 2007
Shrug, it's not a hard question, though I am surprised how many people didn't refer her to an addiction hotline or some such.
::continues hugging quonsar::
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:17 AM on July 22, 2007
::continues hugging quonsar::
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:17 AM on July 22, 2007
really, all these hand-wringy, codependent martyrs and gushing hero-worship types must be what you get when an entire generation is reared with its head up the ass of the corpo-tainment media complex.
Someone fit a XanaxTM in quonsar's mouth, next to his foot.
There's a wide sea of difference between being codependent for a parasitic addict, and helping out someone who is genuinely about helping himself get healthy.
Rational, humane people can disagree about how the best way to help in the latter situation, but it is more telling about the subject, that Metafilter's most idolized troll has somehow managed to behave more condescending and judgmental even than the OPP. Further, it is interesting to watch the fawning codependency that subsequently promotes and celebrates this kind of commentary.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:30 AM on July 22, 2007
Someone fit a XanaxTM in quonsar's mouth, next to his foot.
There's a wide sea of difference between being codependent for a parasitic addict, and helping out someone who is genuinely about helping himself get healthy.
Rational, humane people can disagree about how the best way to help in the latter situation, but it is more telling about the subject, that Metafilter's most idolized troll has somehow managed to behave more condescending and judgmental even than the OPP. Further, it is interesting to watch the fawning codependency that subsequently promotes and celebrates this kind of commentary.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:30 AM on July 22, 2007
Some of the other respondents were probably responding, as I was, under a harm-reduction framework. Drug users, like every other human being in the world, are not always at a mental/emotional/physical/financial/social place where they are able to do the #1 best thing in their situation. It would be great if they could, but if not, my job (when I volunteer at a needle exchange, but I was using that mindset when I responded here) is to try to assess what they are able/willing/ready to do, and help them find a way to do that more safely.
I get that not everyone operates under that philosophy, but I also don't think it's so out-there crazy that it requires call-outs and frothing at the mouth. The OP wasn't asking how astrology was going to affect his/her boyfriend's withdrawal symptoms, he/she was asking for practical advice. "Your plan is unrealistic; go to rehab" is a valid answer, but so is "If this is what you're determined to do, XYZ can make this safer."
posted by Stacey at 10:36 AM on July 22, 2007 [5 favorites]
I get that not everyone operates under that philosophy, but I also don't think it's so out-there crazy that it requires call-outs and frothing at the mouth. The OP wasn't asking how astrology was going to affect his/her boyfriend's withdrawal symptoms, he/she was asking for practical advice. "Your plan is unrealistic; go to rehab" is a valid answer, but so is "If this is what you're determined to do, XYZ can make this safer."
posted by Stacey at 10:36 AM on July 22, 2007 [5 favorites]
Just saying -- Anonymous could also be 'male.'
I kind of feel like a heteronormative jerk, but I always have trouble remembering to replace "boyfriend/girlfriend" with "partner" or "SO." However, since anonymous clearly has bigger fish to fry at the moment, I imagine that he/she won't be terribly disturbed.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 10:46 AM on July 22, 2007
Metafilter's most idolized troll
you say that like it's a bad thing. or, like you're envious.
posted by quonsar at 10:53 AM on July 22, 2007
you say that like it's a bad thing. or, like you're envious.
posted by quonsar at 10:53 AM on July 22, 2007
I don't understand what you are arguing about here.
then you don't know enough to give the question a good answer
I didn't give her one. I assumed others who know better would, and they did. I think it's ridiculous to assume that someone who is dating a junkie is completely oblivious of the magnitude of what she (or he) is facing. I'm fairly certain that's WHY she/he posted the question in the first place. Because she knows she's going to be in the shit and is looking for ways to get through it.
My point was that it is silly to argue for the deletion of the question for the reasons proposed. That's what the thread is about: whether the question should be deleted altogether.
And, frankly, I'm tired of people who whine because they're just so sure that posters asking very specific questions about potentially risky situations are in dire need of their unsolicited advice and get colicky when they don't get to give it. AskMe is like a church social when it comes to advice. Everyone is certain that they know better than everyone else because everyone is certain that everyone else is an idiot.
The mods approved the question. It was specific and answerable. Many people managed to both answer the question asked and convey the danger and/or hopelessness of the situation involved. It should not be deleted. What are you arguing against here?
OK, I've spent too much time thinking about this. Good luck on your trip, little enabler! Bring barf bags!
posted by LeeJay at 11:02 AM on July 22, 2007
then you don't know enough to give the question a good answer
I didn't give her one. I assumed others who know better would, and they did. I think it's ridiculous to assume that someone who is dating a junkie is completely oblivious of the magnitude of what she (or he) is facing. I'm fairly certain that's WHY she/he posted the question in the first place. Because she knows she's going to be in the shit and is looking for ways to get through it.
My point was that it is silly to argue for the deletion of the question for the reasons proposed. That's what the thread is about: whether the question should be deleted altogether.
And, frankly, I'm tired of people who whine because they're just so sure that posters asking very specific questions about potentially risky situations are in dire need of their unsolicited advice and get colicky when they don't get to give it. AskMe is like a church social when it comes to advice. Everyone is certain that they know better than everyone else because everyone is certain that everyone else is an idiot.
The mods approved the question. It was specific and answerable. Many people managed to both answer the question asked and convey the danger and/or hopelessness of the situation involved. It should not be deleted. What are you arguing against here?
OK, I've spent too much time thinking about this. Good luck on your trip, little enabler! Bring barf bags!
posted by LeeJay at 11:02 AM on July 22, 2007
Just saying -- Anonymous could also be 'male.'
Also just to note, I don't know the gender of anonymous, I was also just being a heteronormative jerk.
it takes 8 1/2 hours to drive 600 miles at 70 mph.
See, that's what I was thinking. This isn't a chatty question. Giving a junkie a ride is not against the law. There are at least a few people advising her (again assuming "she" here) that this is a terrible idea, in decent non "you are an idiot and an asshole" langauge. People make bad decision or ill-informed decisions all the time without AskMe intervention in any way, maybe the things that people tell her will help her make a better-informed choice.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:04 AM on July 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
Also just to note, I don't know the gender of anonymous, I was also just being a heteronormative jerk.
it takes 8 1/2 hours to drive 600 miles at 70 mph.
See, that's what I was thinking. This isn't a chatty question. Giving a junkie a ride is not against the law. There are at least a few people advising her (again assuming "she" here) that this is a terrible idea, in decent non "you are an idiot and an asshole" langauge. People make bad decision or ill-informed decisions all the time without AskMe intervention in any way, maybe the things that people tell her will help her make a better-informed choice.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:04 AM on July 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
you say that like it's a bad thing. or, like you're envious.
More troll talk. I'm sorry, but I'm not rising to your bait.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:12 AM on July 22, 2007
More troll talk. I'm sorry, but I'm not rising to your bait.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:12 AM on July 22, 2007
Which is to say, codependent no more.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:15 AM on July 22, 2007
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:15 AM on July 22, 2007
There's a wide sea of difference between being codependent for a parasitic addict, and helping out someone who is genuinely about helping himself get healthy.
But if there's no door number three, then I'm not sure what "good advice" would really consist of here. Because if this is the truth --
being codependent for a parasitic addict
Then there is likely no reason to worry about him withdrawing in the car, because he isn't really withdrawing at all. I suspect this is the most likely scenario -- either because the boyfriend is lying about drying out or will, um, quickly reconsider when his high wears off and he's faced with the ugly task of actually going cold turkey. Although this is the option that implies parasitism, it is very preferable to
helping out someone who is genuinely about helping himself get healthy
because then what you have is the second half of The Exorcist in this poor woman's (or man's!) car. For HOURS. And, from the addict's perspective, something a little more like Stephen King's Misery. I'm not exaggerating when I say this is a situation that could get one or both of them killed. If he really needs to get to a hospital when they're out in the middle of nowhere, that's the ballgame. If he decides he really needs to get a fix when they're at a rest stop in the middle of nowhere, that may be no better. If he flips the fuck out in a moving car at eighty or ninety MPH, very bad things may result. These somewhat breathless scenarios are only far-fetched because I really, honestly don't think he intends to make the trip jonesing -- I mean, come ON -- but if he DOES, they'll both wish he hadn't.
Obviously, this is a topic that sends knees a-jerkin' on both sides, but all PC righteousness/moral indignation aside, I would hope it's evident to all that this is maybe not the best way to handle it.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:16 AM on July 22, 2007
But if there's no door number three, then I'm not sure what "good advice" would really consist of here. Because if this is the truth --
being codependent for a parasitic addict
Then there is likely no reason to worry about him withdrawing in the car, because he isn't really withdrawing at all. I suspect this is the most likely scenario -- either because the boyfriend is lying about drying out or will, um, quickly reconsider when his high wears off and he's faced with the ugly task of actually going cold turkey. Although this is the option that implies parasitism, it is very preferable to
helping out someone who is genuinely about helping himself get healthy
because then what you have is the second half of The Exorcist in this poor woman's (or man's!) car. For HOURS. And, from the addict's perspective, something a little more like Stephen King's Misery. I'm not exaggerating when I say this is a situation that could get one or both of them killed. If he really needs to get to a hospital when they're out in the middle of nowhere, that's the ballgame. If he decides he really needs to get a fix when they're at a rest stop in the middle of nowhere, that may be no better. If he flips the fuck out in a moving car at eighty or ninety MPH, very bad things may result. These somewhat breathless scenarios are only far-fetched because I really, honestly don't think he intends to make the trip jonesing -- I mean, come ON -- but if he DOES, they'll both wish he hadn't.
Obviously, this is a topic that sends knees a-jerkin' on both sides, but all PC righteousness/moral indignation aside, I would hope it's evident to all that this is maybe not the best way to handle it.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 11:16 AM on July 22, 2007
Matt, they aren't driving to the rehab, they are driving home. But 'later', he is going to find a rehab to go to. Yup, really, sure.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 11:22 AM on July 22, 2007
posted by furiousxgeorge at 11:22 AM on July 22, 2007
As someone who sees and is annoyed by plenty of helpless opiate addicts (often the same ones over and over again) and worked many an overdose, I just want to say with total honesty to the original poster:
You sir, are an asshole.
posted by inoculatedcities at 11:47 AM on July 22, 2007
You sir, are an asshole.
posted by inoculatedcities at 11:47 AM on July 22, 2007
With sgt.serenity being in Edinburgh and the topic of heroin/self-detox I can't help but recall various scenes -- especially those involving the character Mark Renton (Ewan McGregor) in Trainspotting. The film is set in Edinburgh (but, was principally filmed in Glasgow).
posted by ericb at 12:24 PM on July 22, 2007
posted by ericb at 12:24 PM on July 22, 2007
Oh christ! The only problem with the thread is all the suburban oiks saying OMG U NEED DOCTOR. Once with that was enough, period.
And why does the "I disagree with" style of callout remind me of people who say "I don't BELIEVE IN abortions (or other unfortunate bit of reality)," as though that makes it not exist?
Better callout, maybe: yet another discussion of the merits of being able to easily answer anonymously. I'm sure there are more than two MeFites who have been junk-sick. Or call out the Male Answer Syndrome a-go-go: "I have never done any illegal drugs, but..." Then STFU there, I think.
posted by kmennie at 12:38 PM on July 22, 2007
And why does the "I disagree with" style of callout remind me of people who say "I don't BELIEVE IN abortions (or other unfortunate bit of reality)," as though that makes it not exist?
Better callout, maybe: yet another discussion of the merits of being able to easily answer anonymously. I'm sure there are more than two MeFites who have been junk-sick. Or call out the Male Answer Syndrome a-go-go: "I have never done any illegal drugs, but..." Then STFU there, I think.
posted by kmennie at 12:38 PM on July 22, 2007
And to all those who are saying "He should just go into rehab!" - are you living in the State of Magical Wonderfulness? Because a lot (most? all?) of rehab places won't take you unless you've been clean for 72 hours; have insurance/the right kind of insurance; won't take you for several days/weeks because they don't have a spot for you. In the meantime, perhaps they still deserve some help, because they're human beings.
posted by rtha at 12:47 PM on July 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by rtha at 12:47 PM on July 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
I think it's ridiculous to assume that someone who is dating a junkie is completely oblivious of the magnitude of what she (or he) is facing.
Really? My assumption is that a person who would date a junkie would be completely oblivious to a lot of things.
Like her own well being, or what would be truly best for the boyfriend. I mean, the solution to getting off drugs for him is "use different drugs".
posted by YoBananaBoy at 12:52 PM on July 22, 2007
Really? My assumption is that a person who would date a junkie would be completely oblivious to a lot of things.
Like her own well being, or what would be truly best for the boyfriend. I mean, the solution to getting off drugs for him is "use different drugs".
posted by YoBananaBoy at 12:52 PM on July 22, 2007
what rtha said too...we don't have the health system you do, sgt.
posted by amberglow at 1:03 PM on July 22, 2007
posted by amberglow at 1:03 PM on July 22, 2007
I mean, the solution to getting off drugs for him is "use different drugs".
Fancy that! Drugs that help you get off drugs, what'll they think up next?
posted by ludwig_van at 1:05 PM on July 22, 2007
Fancy that! Drugs that help you get off drugs, what'll they think up next?
posted by ludwig_van at 1:05 PM on July 22, 2007
" And to all those who are saying "He should just go into rehab!" - are you living in the State of Magical Wonderfulness? Because a lot (most? all?) of rehab places won't take you unless you've been clean for 72 hours"
I have been in rehabs, this is 100% false in my experience. Please do not listen to these people, and seek professional help. Counties and states all over the US provide funding for this, it won't be a problem.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 1:21 PM on July 22, 2007
I have been in rehabs, this is 100% false in my experience. Please do not listen to these people, and seek professional help. Counties and states all over the US provide funding for this, it won't be a problem.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 1:21 PM on July 22, 2007
You ugly fucks (I'm sorry - "f**cks") that want to deny the poster from easy-ish access to information on how to help a sick loved one?
false dilemma - one can still disapprove of anon's driving idea and suggest alternatives without prohibiting other people from giving her that other information
There's a special place for you in hell.
who's the moderator?
posted by pyramid termite at 1:41 PM on July 22, 2007
false dilemma - one can still disapprove of anon's driving idea and suggest alternatives without prohibiting other people from giving her that other information
There's a special place for you in hell.
who's the moderator?
posted by pyramid termite at 1:41 PM on July 22, 2007
It's basically a medical question, and sets a poor precedent.
"Dear Mefi -- I don't have health insurance and need to have my appendix taken out. What household items will I need to have this procedure performed by my sous-chef friend on my kitchen table? Kthx."
I mean, I hope the person gets well. And I'm not outraged or anything that it's on the green, but yet again it's another example of a) get a real freakin' doctor/laywer/professional's advice, rather than that of anonymous internet jagoffs and b) "Oooh, look how much we care! Oooh, my girlfriend's uncle's wife was addicted to smack I KNOW SOMETHING 'BOUT TEH DRUGS!!!"
Meh. This is why I don't visit the green anyways. Stupidity met with sanctimony and/or more stupidity.
posted by bardic at 2:00 PM on July 22, 2007
"Dear Mefi -- I don't have health insurance and need to have my appendix taken out. What household items will I need to have this procedure performed by my sous-chef friend on my kitchen table? Kthx."
I mean, I hope the person gets well. And I'm not outraged or anything that it's on the green, but yet again it's another example of a) get a real freakin' doctor/laywer/professional's advice, rather than that of anonymous internet jagoffs and b) "Oooh, look how much we care! Oooh, my girlfriend's uncle's wife was addicted to smack I KNOW SOMETHING 'BOUT TEH DRUGS!!!"
Meh. This is why I don't visit the green anyways. Stupidity met with sanctimony and/or more stupidity.
posted by bardic at 2:00 PM on July 22, 2007
(Like all real doods, I prefer my sanctimony and stupidity on the gray. Sometimes on the blue.)
posted by bardic at 2:01 PM on July 22, 2007
posted by bardic at 2:01 PM on July 22, 2007
Maybe I'm missing something, but must every issue with any medical component be addressed solely by medical professionals? And legal components, legal professionals?
I understand not misrepresenting oneself. If you describe complex drug interactions or international labor practices based on something you read on Wikipedia, you should be clear that you're not speaking with authority.
But I don't think it's a bad precedent, bardic, for people who have gone through withdrawal to describe the effects of withdrawal. If you helped someone else kick a habit, your experiences are particularly relevant to the AskMe OP. And sure, the telephone-game effect of describing your girlfriend's uncle's wife's experience is not to be dismissed, but as long as you make the indirection clear in your response I don't have a problem with it. The answers aren't being used in a court of law, they're part of an informal advice system and have a correspondingly low burden of accuracy.
You don't need a Ph.D. in botany to tell us that a tomato is ripe.
posted by Riki tiki at 2:33 PM on July 22, 2007
I understand not misrepresenting oneself. If you describe complex drug interactions or international labor practices based on something you read on Wikipedia, you should be clear that you're not speaking with authority.
But I don't think it's a bad precedent, bardic, for people who have gone through withdrawal to describe the effects of withdrawal. If you helped someone else kick a habit, your experiences are particularly relevant to the AskMe OP. And sure, the telephone-game effect of describing your girlfriend's uncle's wife's experience is not to be dismissed, but as long as you make the indirection clear in your response I don't have a problem with it. The answers aren't being used in a court of law, they're part of an informal advice system and have a correspondingly low burden of accuracy.
You don't need a Ph.D. in botany to tell us that a tomato is ripe.
posted by Riki tiki at 2:33 PM on July 22, 2007
Like I said, I hope the person gets clean and does as little damage to himself and those around him as possible.
IMO, a bunch of anonymous intarweb folks like myself giving lots of dubious, ambiguous, or downright contradictory advice is the last thing he needs.
I mean, you have lots of pimples, how do you get rid of them? You fart a lot after eating certain types of food, how do you make that stop? It's not that medical/biological advice is always beyond the pale of askme, it's that life v. death issues are. This sounds about as extreme as it gets -- "Dear Askme, how do I suvive something as inherently dangerous as heroin withdrawal while circumventing proper medical care?"
Bad idea.
posted by bardic at 2:42 PM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
IMO, a bunch of anonymous intarweb folks like myself giving lots of dubious, ambiguous, or downright contradictory advice is the last thing he needs.
I mean, you have lots of pimples, how do you get rid of them? You fart a lot after eating certain types of food, how do you make that stop? It's not that medical/biological advice is always beyond the pale of askme, it's that life v. death issues are. This sounds about as extreme as it gets -- "Dear Askme, how do I suvive something as inherently dangerous as heroin withdrawal while circumventing proper medical care?"
Bad idea.
posted by bardic at 2:42 PM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
bardic: on the other hand, "life v. death" issues are the ones where personal experiences may be the most relevant. A medical journal may let you know that diazepam decreases the recidivism rate of ex-users by 37% (not a real statistic), but someone who has used it to help them quit will be able to explain why in terms that are useful and understandable to a non-doctor.
Advice from experienced but unprofessional people can help you guide your actions and expectations so that the consequences of your decision aren't just the result of a statistical dice-roll.
posted by Riki tiki at 3:34 PM on July 22, 2007
Advice from experienced but unprofessional people can help you guide your actions and expectations so that the consequences of your decision aren't just the result of a statistical dice-roll.
posted by Riki tiki at 3:34 PM on July 22, 2007
People stop doing heroin all the damn time without medical intervention. Per the earlier comments, unless this guy has an unusual medical history and is in bad health, no, it really isn't a medical matter.
This thread is a weird combination of drug-culture naive people whose reaction is OMG HEROIN! with supposedly drug-culture savvy people whose reaction is OMG HEROIN!. Yeah, I doubt the latter.
He/she is in for a rough car trip home. No one is going to die from it, regardless of kittens for breakfast's BUT THEY'RE IN A CAR! histrionics.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:53 PM on July 22, 2007
This thread is a weird combination of drug-culture naive people whose reaction is OMG HEROIN! with supposedly drug-culture savvy people whose reaction is OMG HEROIN!. Yeah, I doubt the latter.
He/she is in for a rough car trip home. No one is going to die from it, regardless of kittens for breakfast's BUT THEY'RE IN A CAR! histrionics.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 3:53 PM on July 22, 2007
You ugly fucks (I'm sorry - "f**cks") that want to deny the poster from easy-ish access to information on how to help a sick loved one? There's a special place for you in hell.
She's not helping the guy, she's actually making it worse by taking away the consequences of his behaviour and hurtin herself in the process - kapeesh ? got that ? quite clear ? Sorted that one out ?
(and btw my place in hell has been vacated, thanks)
cortex - is there any other way to tell people who dont actually know what theyre talking about that they don't know what theyre talking about ? because that askme thread is full of very well meaning but completely misguided people who deeply, deeply care (and who all seemed to be armed with pitchforks at the moment)- you might like to look at your admin skillz with regards to subjects like this, rather than replying in the way you did - people die from the crap advice that you're allowing to be spouted in that thread, anyway, good luck with wiping out the chatfilter.
anyway, seeing what dios must see here every day is terribly interesting, i must say.
*waves to the konse *
*sings roadhouse blues*
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:07 PM on July 22, 2007
She's not helping the guy, she's actually making it worse by taking away the consequences of his behaviour and hurtin herself in the process - kapeesh ? got that ? quite clear ? Sorted that one out ?
(and btw my place in hell has been vacated, thanks)
cortex - is there any other way to tell people who dont actually know what theyre talking about that they don't know what theyre talking about ? because that askme thread is full of very well meaning but completely misguided people who deeply, deeply care (and who all seemed to be armed with pitchforks at the moment)- you might like to look at your admin skillz with regards to subjects like this, rather than replying in the way you did - people die from the crap advice that you're allowing to be spouted in that thread, anyway, good luck with wiping out the chatfilter.
anyway, seeing what dios must see here every day is terribly interesting, i must say.
*waves to the konse *
*sings roadhouse blues*
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:07 PM on July 22, 2007
it really isn't a medical matter
I'm sorry, but it really is. Or to split the difference, it's a health matter, no doubt about it. As you seem to imply, there are better ways than others to go about a withdrawal without serious health repercussions.
I agree that it isn't a conventional health matter -- it isn't something you can just walk into a doctor's office and ask about without risk of you or your friends being arrested.
Like I said, I have sympathy. I also think it's a bad question to leave up for the reasons I've mentioned. 1) The mods do a good job generally, but they aren't medical professionals who can delete the "bullshit" answers and, more cynically but related, 2) This is just a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Bad idea.
posted by bardic at 4:27 PM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'm sorry, but it really is. Or to split the difference, it's a health matter, no doubt about it. As you seem to imply, there are better ways than others to go about a withdrawal without serious health repercussions.
I agree that it isn't a conventional health matter -- it isn't something you can just walk into a doctor's office and ask about without risk of you or your friends being arrested.
Like I said, I have sympathy. I also think it's a bad question to leave up for the reasons I've mentioned. 1) The mods do a good job generally, but they aren't medical professionals who can delete the "bullshit" answers and, more cynically but related, 2) This is just a lawsuit waiting to happen.
Bad idea.
posted by bardic at 4:27 PM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
"I strongly disagree with This Thread being posted" is suggesting that alternatives to the drive should, in fact, be prohibited.
i'm not responsible for what other people say on this website, so address it to them
posted by pyramid termite at 4:37 PM on July 22, 2007
i'm not responsible for what other people say on this website, so address it to them
posted by pyramid termite at 4:37 PM on July 22, 2007
Here's a good way of looking at this situation:
Ask comes up at the top of search results for solving problems. A lot. Now, imagine I'm a heroin addict who's finally decided to kick the habit. I don't want to go to a doctor because he's the only one in town and I don't want my friends and family to know that I fail at saying No.
So, I run across this page and suddenly I have all this useful info. Now I know I need bottles of water lined up, oranges, whatever.
It doesn't matter if drug abuse is encouraged -- odds are very good that if I'm a heroin addict, switching to a pot-based lifestyle will be a serious step up. And in my situation, it doesn't matter if I'm getting taken for a ride because I am he.
Just want you all to know, BTW, that barring me becoming bizarro me, I myself do not have and will never have a heroin addiction. I'm way too addicted to the internet.
The day that websites make you high, I'm screwed.
posted by Deathalicious at 4:51 PM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
Ask comes up at the top of search results for solving problems. A lot. Now, imagine I'm a heroin addict who's finally decided to kick the habit. I don't want to go to a doctor because he's the only one in town and I don't want my friends and family to know that I fail at saying No.
So, I run across this page and suddenly I have all this useful info. Now I know I need bottles of water lined up, oranges, whatever.
It doesn't matter if drug abuse is encouraged -- odds are very good that if I'm a heroin addict, switching to a pot-based lifestyle will be a serious step up. And in my situation, it doesn't matter if I'm getting taken for a ride because I am he.
Just want you all to know, BTW, that barring me becoming bizarro me, I myself do not have and will never have a heroin addiction. I'm way too addicted to the internet.
The day that websites make you high, I'm screwed.
posted by Deathalicious at 4:51 PM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
He/she is in for a rough car trip home. No one is going to die from it, regardless of kittens for breakfast's BUT THEY'RE IN A CAR! histrionics.
Yes, well, Dr. Bligh, I of course defer to your inestimable authority in this, as in all things. Except that I've actually been in a car with a detoxing and freaking out person, and it's not an experience I would advise anyone repeat on the highway. So actually, I guess what I'm saying is, you're full of shit.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:59 PM on July 22, 2007 [3 favorites]
Yes, well, Dr. Bligh, I of course defer to your inestimable authority in this, as in all things. Except that I've actually been in a car with a detoxing and freaking out person, and it's not an experience I would advise anyone repeat on the highway. So actually, I guess what I'm saying is, you're full of shit.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 4:59 PM on July 22, 2007 [3 favorites]
" And to all those who are saying "He should just go into rehab!" - are you living in the State of Magical Wonderfulness? Because a lot (most? all?) of rehab places won't take you unless you've been clean for 72 hours"
I have been in rehabs, this is 100% false in my experience. Please do not listen to these people, and seek professional help. Counties and states all over the US provide funding for this, it won't be a problem.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 1:21 PM on July 22 [+] [!]
Weirdly enough, what I wrote was based on the experience of people I know who have tried to get into rehab here in California - and is the opposite of yours, furiousxgeorge. You have your experience, my friends & co-workers have theirs. Yours being different does not make the experiences of my friends false.
posted by rtha at 5:04 PM on July 22, 2007
I have been in rehabs, this is 100% false in my experience. Please do not listen to these people, and seek professional help. Counties and states all over the US provide funding for this, it won't be a problem.
posted by furiousxgeorge at 1:21 PM on July 22 [+] [!]
Weirdly enough, what I wrote was based on the experience of people I know who have tried to get into rehab here in California - and is the opposite of yours, furiousxgeorge. You have your experience, my friends & co-workers have theirs. Yours being different does not make the experiences of my friends false.
posted by rtha at 5:04 PM on July 22, 2007
seeing what dios must see here every day is terribly interesting, i must say.
what do you mean? intentionally victimizing yourself over other people's problems? can't say i feel a lot of sympathy for either of you.
your objection to the thread is a valid subject of argument, though i disagree with you. the notion that you are the unfair target of a self-induced and -encouraged witchhunt is nonsense.
posted by spiderwire at 5:15 PM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
what do you mean? intentionally victimizing yourself over other people's problems? can't say i feel a lot of sympathy for either of you.
your objection to the thread is a valid subject of argument, though i disagree with you. the notion that you are the unfair target of a self-induced and -encouraged witchhunt is nonsense.
posted by spiderwire at 5:15 PM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
i love this one :
I realize that the advice of mixing booze and pills isn't really sound advice, but 10mg of Valium or 20-25mg of Xanax plus booze isn't going to kill him
Isn't that the combo that stops you breathing ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:16 PM on July 22, 2007
I realize that the advice of mixing booze and pills isn't really sound advice, but 10mg of Valium or 20-25mg of Xanax plus booze isn't going to kill him
Isn't that the combo that stops you breathing ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 5:16 PM on July 22, 2007
Except that I've actually been in a car with a detoxing and freaking out person, and it's not an experience I would advise anyone repeat on the highway. So actually, I guess what I'm saying is, you're full of shit.
Except that apparently no one died, so EB ("He/she is in for a rough car trip home. No one is going to die from it") was right. I guess what I'm saying is, you're full of shit.
posted by languagehat at 5:22 PM on July 22, 2007
Except that apparently no one died, so EB ("He/she is in for a rough car trip home. No one is going to die from it") was right. I guess what I'm saying is, you're full of shit.
posted by languagehat at 5:22 PM on July 22, 2007
Oh, and hi, sarge!
posted by languagehat at 5:22 PM on July 22, 2007
posted by languagehat at 5:22 PM on July 22, 2007
And also:
Per the earlier comments, unless this guy has an unusual medical history and is in bad health, no, it really isn't a medical matter.
If by not really a medical matter you mean probably not fatal, then yeah, you're right. But the thing is, we don't really know this guy's medical history, and heroin withdrawal is occasionally fatal. Not often -- hardly ever! -- but sometimes. And I don't feel qualified to judge whether this guy is special. I think the middle of nowhere would be a bad place for his girlfriend -- and him -- to discover that he is. If you feel comfortable saying unequivocally that, "oh, yeah, sure, he'll be fine, he just needs to walk it off...people do this all the time!" then bully for you, but I hope you're never in a position to give advice to anybody I give a shit about.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:31 PM on July 22, 2007
Per the earlier comments, unless this guy has an unusual medical history and is in bad health, no, it really isn't a medical matter.
If by not really a medical matter you mean probably not fatal, then yeah, you're right. But the thing is, we don't really know this guy's medical history, and heroin withdrawal is occasionally fatal. Not often -- hardly ever! -- but sometimes. And I don't feel qualified to judge whether this guy is special. I think the middle of nowhere would be a bad place for his girlfriend -- and him -- to discover that he is. If you feel comfortable saying unequivocally that, "oh, yeah, sure, he'll be fine, he just needs to walk it off...people do this all the time!" then bully for you, but I hope you're never in a position to give advice to anybody I give a shit about.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:31 PM on July 22, 2007
While we're here, can I strongly disagree with this thread being posted?
posted by Saucy Intruder at 5:34 PM on July 22, 2007
posted by Saucy Intruder at 5:34 PM on July 22, 2007
Except that apparently no one died, so EB ("He/she is in for a rough car trip home. No one is going to die from it") was right. I guess what I'm saying is, you're full of shit.
The big differences being that (a) we weren't in a car for eight-plus hours, and (b) we weren't doing highway speeds, so the likelihood of grave injury from a crash was lower. (The other big difference, I should point out, was that the detoxer was detoxing from alcohol, which I understand has a much greater likelihood of getting violent than does heroin detox. Still, this is not something I myself would care to test out on the highway. You and EB are both welcome to give this a whirl and let me know how it works out, Language FAT!)
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:37 PM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
The big differences being that (a) we weren't in a car for eight-plus hours, and (b) we weren't doing highway speeds, so the likelihood of grave injury from a crash was lower. (The other big difference, I should point out, was that the detoxer was detoxing from alcohol, which I understand has a much greater likelihood of getting violent than does heroin detox. Still, this is not something I myself would care to test out on the highway. You and EB are both welcome to give this a whirl and let me know how it works out, Language FAT!)
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:37 PM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
While we're here, can I strongly disagree with this thread being posted?
I second that.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:40 PM on July 22, 2007
I second that.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:40 PM on July 22, 2007
Why, what's wrong with it?
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 5:42 PM on July 22, 2007
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 5:42 PM on July 22, 2007
The Potter thread is about the series ending, not the end of the book. Perhaps the mods might like to make that clearer.
posted by dame at 5:43 PM on July 22, 2007
posted by dame at 5:43 PM on July 22, 2007
Except that apparently no one died, so EB ("He/she is in for a rough car trip home. No one is going to die from it") was right. I guess what I'm saying is, you're full of shit.
If the best apology for the thread is something along the lines of "Hey guys! This one time, at withdrawal camp, my de-toxing friend got really sick but didn't die!" then indeed, delete the fucking thread. As mentioned, we don't know shit about said person's medical condition, and yet, it's alright to offer not just highly dubious information, but "information" based entirely on anecdotal evidence? Yeesh.
posted by bardic at 5:51 PM on July 22, 2007
If the best apology for the thread is something along the lines of "Hey guys! This one time, at withdrawal camp, my de-toxing friend got really sick but didn't die!" then indeed, delete the fucking thread. As mentioned, we don't know shit about said person's medical condition, and yet, it's alright to offer not just highly dubious information, but "information" based entirely on anecdotal evidence? Yeesh.
posted by bardic at 5:51 PM on July 22, 2007
I get it, Sarge. You just wanted to test out your condescension skills on us! Bravo, sir, job well done. Everyone thinks you're an asshole for it, but that's exactly what you wanted! Fantastic work. Especially this recent bit:
...she's actually making it worse by taking away the consequences of his behaviour [sic] and hurtin [sic] herself in the process - kapeesh [sic] ? got that ? quite clear ? Sorted that one out ?
Multiple redundant questions! I'm swooning. I bet when you finish jr. high you'll be the best debater in your high school.
posted by zardoz at 5:51 PM on July 22, 2007
...she's actually making it worse by taking away the consequences of his behaviour [sic] and hurtin [sic] herself in the process - kapeesh [sic] ? got that ? quite clear ? Sorted that one out ?
Multiple redundant questions! I'm swooning. I bet when you finish jr. high you'll be the best debater in your high school.
posted by zardoz at 5:51 PM on July 22, 2007
Ask comes up at the top of search results for solving problems.
Don't worry: I'm sure for searches like this a responsible group like Narconon comes up first.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 6:01 PM on July 22, 2007
Don't worry: I'm sure for searches like this a responsible group like Narconon comes up first.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 6:01 PM on July 22, 2007
I wonder, as a Thought Experiment, if the complainers would be as upset if instead of "boyfriend" Anonymous had been inquiring about a sibling or child.
This is troll talk.
I think I agree.
posted by These Penises Are Alarmed at 6:04 PM on July 22, 2007
This is troll talk.
I think I agree.
posted by These Penises Are Alarmed at 6:04 PM on July 22, 2007
Don't worry: I'm sure for searches like this a responsible group like Narconon comes up first.
Well on my computer, the first Google result for withdrawal+heroin+driving is some PDF from Hawaii, and then the AskMe.
But I'm sure some of the folks who'll come across it will just be bad typers trying to find the best way to transport a removed heron.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 6:09 PM on July 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
Well on my computer, the first Google result for withdrawal+heroin+driving is some PDF from Hawaii, and then the AskMe.
But I'm sure some of the folks who'll come across it will just be bad typers trying to find the best way to transport a removed heron.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 6:09 PM on July 22, 2007 [2 favorites]
if the complainers would be as upset if instead of "boyfriend" Anonymous had been inquiring about a sibling or child.
Then I'd hope the mods would do the right thing and report the poster to the authorities. In the case of a child, at least.
posted by bardic at 6:13 PM on July 22, 2007
Then I'd hope the mods would do the right thing and report the poster to the authorities. In the case of a child, at least.
posted by bardic at 6:13 PM on July 22, 2007
Well on my computer, the first Google result for withdrawal+heroin+driving is some PDF from Hawaii, and then the AskMe.
Where the fuck would you be driving in Hawaii? Are they just trying to screw with those poor addicts by going in circles?
posted by spiderwire at 6:13 PM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
Where the fuck would you be driving in Hawaii? Are they just trying to screw with those poor addicts by going in circles?
posted by spiderwire at 6:13 PM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
Are they just trying to screw with those poor addicts by going in circles?
they're looking for trains so they can go trainspotting
posted by pyramid termite at 6:21 PM on July 22, 2007
they're looking for trains so they can go trainspotting
posted by pyramid termite at 6:21 PM on July 22, 2007
The Potter thread is about the series ending, not the end of the book. Perhaps the mods might like to make that clearer.
Perhaps the mods might like to instead nuke the pretentious "zomg harrypotter wah" thread from orbit.
at the end, hitler dies, in a bunker
posted by Saucy Intruder at 6:31 PM on July 22, 2007
Perhaps the mods might like to instead nuke the pretentious "zomg harrypotter wah" thread from orbit.
at the end, hitler dies, in a bunker
posted by Saucy Intruder at 6:31 PM on July 22, 2007
Why shouldn't he just go to detox at a facility near him first and then drive home with his girlfriend? If he lives in a city a detox should not be hard to find nor should it be hard to get into as long as he hasn't AMA-ed himself from one a million times already. That's why I thought the drive sounded like a half-baked, bad idea, because the suffering that would ensue is probably completely unnecessary. Just arrange to meet him at the door when he gets out of detox for chrissakes.
Arguing over whether it's potentially fatal or not is totally ridiculous. Just because it won't kill him means it's a good idea? C'mon, people.
posted by The Straightener at 6:49 PM on July 22, 2007
Arguing over whether it's potentially fatal or not is totally ridiculous. Just because it won't kill him means it's a good idea? C'mon, people.
posted by The Straightener at 6:49 PM on July 22, 2007
I don't condone illegal drug use. None of my friends do drugs (that I know of, they hide it from me if they do). I am a conservative goodie-two shoes. But if a friend asked me to accompany them on this type of road trip, I more than likely would.
I would have no clue what to expect during an 8 hour drive with someone withdrawing from herion. Neither does the poster or s/he wouldn't be asking this specific question. After reading the responses, s/he may have second thoughts about this road trip. I know I would, to the point of not doing it.
In my tight-assed conserative Republic voting opinion, the question should remain.
posted by JujuB at 6:52 PM on July 22, 2007
I would have no clue what to expect during an 8 hour drive with someone withdrawing from herion. Neither does the poster or s/he wouldn't be asking this specific question. After reading the responses, s/he may have second thoughts about this road trip. I know I would, to the point of not doing it.
In my tight-assed conserative Republic voting opinion, the question should remain.
posted by JujuB at 6:52 PM on July 22, 2007
With some prodding, the kittens for breakfast person who implied and then asserted so much authority on this matter finally admits that, no, it wasn't a person detoxing fro heroin in his/her car, it was alcohol, and it wasn't a long car ride. And, of course, no one was hurt. In other words, an improper and alarmist generalization from a very limited situation that really wasn't at all comparable. That's pretty much squarely in the full of shit territory.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:02 PM on July 22, 2007
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 8:02 PM on July 22, 2007
But somehow this Ethereal Bligh person's anecdote is to be taken as a medically expert one? Again, when it comes to a situation involving somebody's health in dire circumstances, anonymous internet jagoffs should not be an option, and askme should not facilitate said option.
posted by bardic at 8:26 PM on July 22, 2007
posted by bardic at 8:26 PM on July 22, 2007
Uh, there was no prodding, and -- as usual -- you seem to think I'm attempting to assert great authority simply by disagreeing with you, I guess because you think you possess great authority. In other news, you're inventing things I've said, unless you really think that any car ride under eight hours is automatically short. Speaking of trolls, your entire style of discourse is pretty trollish -- you seem totally incapable of disagreeing with anyone without being a dick, which makes conversation pretty taxing -- and so I now end the part of the show where I acknowledge you, kthxbye.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:56 PM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by kittens for breakfast at 8:56 PM on July 22, 2007 [1 favorite]
I don't doubt it. He posts here even more than I do.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:03 PM on July 22, 2007
posted by kittens for breakfast at 9:03 PM on July 22, 2007
See, I only have sex when I post to mefi. That's why I comment as much as I do.
posted by bardic at 9:13 PM on July 22, 2007
posted by bardic at 9:13 PM on July 22, 2007
Seconded. Ethereal Bligh goes from 0-100 with people, in the form of badly written "fuck you up your ass" type rants that really are pointless. That kind of aggressiveness is indicative of a lack of sex.
I will be officially disappointed if EB takes bait as transparent as that last sentence, but if you really think that aggressive, 0-100 types are lacking sex in their lives, you clearly don't spend much time around real type-A personalities.
posted by spiderwire at 9:33 PM on July 22, 2007
I will be officially disappointed if EB takes bait as transparent as that last sentence, but if you really think that aggressive, 0-100 types are lacking sex in their lives, you clearly don't spend much time around real type-A personalities.
posted by spiderwire at 9:33 PM on July 22, 2007
Remember, we're talking about a comment section on a link aggregator here. In real life most of the dicks here are probably fairly affable.
Nah, I'm a complete jerk in both.
posted by spiderwire at 9:39 PM on July 22, 2007
Nah, I'm a complete jerk in both.
posted by spiderwire at 9:39 PM on July 22, 2007
Then I'd hope the mods would do the right thing and report the poster to the authorities. In the case of a child, at least.
Are you serious? If someone's mother consulted AskMeFi for advice on how to bring her heroin addicted teenager home, you'd want her reported to the authorities? For what?
posted by solipsophistocracy at 9:53 PM on July 22, 2007
Are you serious? If someone's mother consulted AskMeFi for advice on how to bring her heroin addicted teenager home, you'd want her reported to the authorities? For what?
posted by solipsophistocracy at 9:53 PM on July 22, 2007
I wonder if they'll delete it if anyone posts the most sane, intelligent idea for the poster to follow, which is "unless you are incredibly close to your boyfriend, as in you intend to marry him someday, find a better boyfriend." Seriously, close association with a major drug addict can easily lead to prison or death. Unless the person is someone you are never willing to live without, get the hell out of there in the interests of self-preservation. Detox will very likely fail, since it doesn't sound like she understands the root cause of his addiction and he's only doing it because he has to.
There are approximately one bajillion desperate guys in the world, many of whom aren't basement dwelling WoW addicts, so I guarantee they could do better. Doing worse would be a real challenge - maybe an insane domestic violence case, or a meth addict, but that would be it.
posted by Mitrovarr at 9:59 PM on July 22, 2007
There are approximately one bajillion desperate guys in the world, many of whom aren't basement dwelling WoW addicts, so I guarantee they could do better. Doing worse would be a real challenge - maybe an insane domestic violence case, or a meth addict, but that would be it.
posted by Mitrovarr at 9:59 PM on July 22, 2007
Yes. No. Yes.
So... we're all complete jerks in real life?
posted by spiderwire at 10:02 PM on July 22, 2007
So... we're all complete jerks in real life?
posted by spiderwire at 10:02 PM on July 22, 2007
...Or are you just having some issue with that intercourse thing?...
/backs away
posted by spiderwire at 10:03 PM on July 22, 2007
/backs away
posted by spiderwire at 10:03 PM on July 22, 2007
The hypothetical was something like, "I bet you meanies wouldn't be so hard on the OP if it was her sibling or child that was addicted." And I responded that if a poster's child was addicted to heroin, yeah, the mods should notify the appropriate authorities. I assume this meant the hypothetical heroin-addicted child was, like, an adolescent.
Oh but wait, I'm explaining myself to someone who doesn't know how to read in the first place. My bad.
posted by bardic at 10:06 PM on July 22, 2007
Oh but wait, I'm explaining myself to someone who doesn't know how to read in the first place. My bad.
posted by bardic at 10:06 PM on July 22, 2007
Well, I don't know how to read your assumptions about someone else's hypothetical situation.
posted by solipsophistocracy at 10:17 PM on July 22, 2007
posted by solipsophistocracy at 10:17 PM on July 22, 2007
I still can't even find the hypothetical, though I know I read it before. It certainly wasn't in my post, the one above yours, the one I thought you were responding to, with these, um, reading skills. i hope i'm misreading your insult again, dude.
posted by spiderwire at 11:38 PM on July 22, 2007
posted by spiderwire at 11:38 PM on July 22, 2007
Can someone sell me some heroin? I've read that thread and I'm itching for a fix. This suit is black.
posted by sjvilla79 at 12:28 AM on July 23, 2007
posted by sjvilla79 at 12:28 AM on July 23, 2007
Anyway, now i remember- i've been with 3 people while theyve been withdrawing from heroin all at the same time - the plan was to take them from glasgow to bosnia while withdrawing .......oh what a fuss...anyway, back to the wee 600 mile car trip.
posted by sgt.serenity at 2:30 AM on July 23, 2007
The above comment would do better in the thread you've posted to MeTa about. A funny irony seeing you actually started this discussion. But of course none of this is about you and how comfortable you may be while reading the content that filters through here from time to time.
posted by sjvilla79 at 3:59 AM on July 23, 2007
posted by sjvilla79 at 3:59 AM on July 23, 2007
spiderwire, this is the hypothetical in question. I wasn't responding to your post, but rather to bardic's. I'm also unsure where my "insult" is, unless you're referring to the one directed at me. Why don't you just wait for bardic to respond, so you can favorite it?
posted by solipsophistocracy at 6:13 AM on July 23, 2007
posted by solipsophistocracy at 6:13 AM on July 23, 2007
I have been in rehabs, this is 100% false in my experience. Please do not listen to these people, and seek professional help. Counties and states all over the US provide funding for this, it won't be a problem.
Uh, no. Not all counties and states.
In most of the northeast (the only region I have first hand knowledge of) most rehabs will *not* take anyone unti lthey are medically cleared.
Rehabs generally are not set up to provide the level of medical care that someone expieriencing alcohol or diazepam withdrawal may need. There's a big difference between driving people to meetings or facilitating group therapy and managing seizures or psychosis.
posted by cedar at 6:43 AM on July 23, 2007
Uh, no. Not all counties and states.
In most of the northeast (the only region I have first hand knowledge of) most rehabs will *not* take anyone unti lthey are medically cleared.
Rehabs generally are not set up to provide the level of medical care that someone expieriencing alcohol or diazepam withdrawal may need. There's a big difference between driving people to meetings or facilitating group therapy and managing seizures or psychosis.
posted by cedar at 6:43 AM on July 23, 2007
Some of these complaints/answers are remarkably uptight . If people are concerned that the questioner is being taken by a ride then they can post that as a response. I doubt it would be removed if it was stated somewhat moderately like,
"Making a 9+ hour ride with a user going through withdrawal will be a very trying experience. It is very possible that this person has simply run out of money and they are claiming to quit with the intent of going into rehab soon only so they can get a ride from you. You would be doing better to cut contact until they have found their way out of rehab and then to re-evaluate."
But that's not to say that any other answer is naive and irresponsible. Come on. Not everyone who quits a habit does so by going through rehab. And sometimes loved ones who exercises a little prudence, i.e. not loaning money, can do an addict a big service and help them along (and I don't mean on the road to the next fix). I certainly wouldn't recommend it, but to claim that the questioner is 'definitely' being taken advantage of is overstating the case. We can let those in the scenario judge for themselves. And if you want to make a post about how it generally plays out it will probably remain, well, unless you mean that not 'touchy feely' equals 'asshole'.
-----
"If by not really a medical matter you mean probably not fatal, then yeah, you're right. But the thing is, we don't really know this guy's medical history, and heroin withdrawal is occasionally fatal. Not often -- hardly ever! -- but sometimes. And I don't feel qualified to judge whether this guy is special. I think the middle of nowhere would be a bad place for his girlfriend -- and him -- to discover that he is. If you feel comfortable saying unequivocally that, "oh, yeah, sure, he'll be fine, he just needs to walk it off...people do this all the time!" then bully for you, but I hope you're never in a position to give advice to anybody I give a shit about."
This is an unrealistic standard. No one has perfect knowledge and no one can predict the future. Sometimes we take risks and it doesn't work out. It doesn't mean there was a mistake. You make the best decision with the information you have. When a commentator emphasizes a bad consequence on one side of a decision they frequently refuse to handicap the other side, thereby implying it is risk free. But to us, it's an unknown. We have no idea what the risks in the person not giving a ride are. 'Unequivocal' is nonsense. The situations where we can make that claim are trivial and few need advice on them.
posted by BigSky at 6:56 AM on July 23, 2007
"Making a 9+ hour ride with a user going through withdrawal will be a very trying experience. It is very possible that this person has simply run out of money and they are claiming to quit with the intent of going into rehab soon only so they can get a ride from you. You would be doing better to cut contact until they have found their way out of rehab and then to re-evaluate."
But that's not to say that any other answer is naive and irresponsible. Come on. Not everyone who quits a habit does so by going through rehab. And sometimes loved ones who exercises a little prudence, i.e. not loaning money, can do an addict a big service and help them along (and I don't mean on the road to the next fix). I certainly wouldn't recommend it, but to claim that the questioner is 'definitely' being taken advantage of is overstating the case. We can let those in the scenario judge for themselves. And if you want to make a post about how it generally plays out it will probably remain, well, unless you mean that not 'touchy feely' equals 'asshole'.
-----
"If by not really a medical matter you mean probably not fatal, then yeah, you're right. But the thing is, we don't really know this guy's medical history, and heroin withdrawal is occasionally fatal. Not often -- hardly ever! -- but sometimes. And I don't feel qualified to judge whether this guy is special. I think the middle of nowhere would be a bad place for his girlfriend -- and him -- to discover that he is. If you feel comfortable saying unequivocally that, "oh, yeah, sure, he'll be fine, he just needs to walk it off...people do this all the time!" then bully for you, but I hope you're never in a position to give advice to anybody I give a shit about."
This is an unrealistic standard. No one has perfect knowledge and no one can predict the future. Sometimes we take risks and it doesn't work out. It doesn't mean there was a mistake. You make the best decision with the information you have. When a commentator emphasizes a bad consequence on one side of a decision they frequently refuse to handicap the other side, thereby implying it is risk free. But to us, it's an unknown. We have no idea what the risks in the person not giving a ride are. 'Unequivocal' is nonsense. The situations where we can make that claim are trivial and few need advice on them.
posted by BigSky at 6:56 AM on July 23, 2007
You make the best decision with the information you have.
Right. And the best decision is not to do it. This has been going on for like 48 hours now, so I think I'll stop here.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:10 AM on July 23, 2007
Right. And the best decision is not to do it. This has been going on for like 48 hours now, so I think I'll stop here.
posted by kittens for breakfast at 7:10 AM on July 23, 2007
Yeah, they might even be home by now, making any further discussion of what to do moot.
posted by caddis at 7:23 AM on July 23, 2007
posted by caddis at 7:23 AM on July 23, 2007
Man, this thread is focused. I got away with calling Narconon a reliable organization and no one's trying to hold me down and tattoo the Fishman Affidavit on my face.
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 8:29 AM on July 23, 2007
posted by Lentrohamsanin at 8:29 AM on July 23, 2007
"Right. And the best decision is not to do it. This has been going on for like 48 hours now, so I think I'll stop here."
Yeah, and in "agreeing" with me you miss the point. What I'm saying is that your recommendation is not the result of an honest evaluation. There is nothing more to the paragraph I quoted above than "OMG he could die!!!". There are factors you are ignorant of and to state you know the best decision because you don't like the risk on one side is dishonest.
And when I said 'you' I was referring to anyone making a decision. In this case the person asking the question, not those answering the question on AskMe or contributing in this thread. The questioner didn't ask us to handicap her situation, just advice on how to do the job.
posted by BigSky at 8:40 AM on July 23, 2007
Yeah, and in "agreeing" with me you miss the point. What I'm saying is that your recommendation is not the result of an honest evaluation. There is nothing more to the paragraph I quoted above than "OMG he could die!!!". There are factors you are ignorant of and to state you know the best decision because you don't like the risk on one side is dishonest.
And when I said 'you' I was referring to anyone making a decision. In this case the person asking the question, not those answering the question on AskMe or contributing in this thread. The questioner didn't ask us to handicap her situation, just advice on how to do the job.
posted by BigSky at 8:40 AM on July 23, 2007
it might be better to close the browser at that point.
posted by cortex at 6:08 PM on July 22 [4 favorites +] [!]
god fucking forbid one questions the infinite wisdoms of our administrators (especially of the newbie administrators, I guess).
I'm with quonsar, but I'm not happy to kiss everyone's ass here with insincere support and a laughable pretense of "we're all a happy family here" so of course my opinion is irrelevant.
on the other hand, anonymous drama-heavy threads are as of now the best of MetaFilter so I'm a big of fan, please give us more (just make'em up if the flow dries up because I suppose most are fake anyway)
posted by matteo at 9:03 AM on July 23, 2007
posted by cortex at 6:08 PM on July 22 [4 favorites +] [!]
god fucking forbid one questions the infinite wisdoms of our administrators (especially of the newbie administrators, I guess).
I'm with quonsar, but I'm not happy to kiss everyone's ass here with insincere support and a laughable pretense of "we're all a happy family here" so of course my opinion is irrelevant.
on the other hand, anonymous drama-heavy threads are as of now the best of MetaFilter so I'm a big of fan, please give us more (just make'em up if the flow dries up because I suppose most are fake anyway)
posted by matteo at 9:03 AM on July 23, 2007
Can someone sell me some heroin? I've read that thread and I'm itching for a fix. This suit is black.
posted by sjvilla79 at 8:28 AM on July 23 [+] [!]
The above comment would do better in the thread you've posted to MeTa about. A funny irony seeing you actually started this discussion. But of course none of this is about you and how comfortable you may be while reading the content that filters through here from time to time.
posted by sjvilla79 at 11:59 AM on July 23 [+] [!]
you post something like that initially, then turn round and start giving advice on how to post properly ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 9:06 AM on July 23, 2007
posted by sjvilla79 at 8:28 AM on July 23 [+] [!]
The above comment would do better in the thread you've posted to MeTa about. A funny irony seeing you actually started this discussion. But of course none of this is about you and how comfortable you may be while reading the content that filters through here from time to time.
posted by sjvilla79 at 11:59 AM on July 23 [+] [!]
you post something like that initially, then turn round and start giving advice on how to post properly ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 9:06 AM on July 23, 2007
In most of the northeast (the only region I have first hand knowledge of) most rehabs will *not* take anyone unti lthey are medically cleared.
Rehabs generally are not set up to provide the level of medical care that someone expieriencing alcohol or diazepam withdrawal may need.
Your first hand knowledge is not very extensive.
posted by The Straightener at 9:18 AM on July 23, 2007
Rehabs generally are not set up to provide the level of medical care that someone expieriencing alcohol or diazepam withdrawal may need.
Your first hand knowledge is not very extensive.
posted by The Straightener at 9:18 AM on July 23, 2007
Actually, I don't want to sound like a dick and I don't want to front like I know what I'm talking about without providing some substance to show that I do so let me flesh that out.
In Philadelphia, arrangements for detox stays can be made through BHSI. BHSI will pay for your detox if you do not have insurance (provided you haven't previously "AMA-ed" yourself, or signed out of detox early, against medical advice) and will be sure to place you at a site that can handle the level of medical care you need. They can and will place you for alcohol, benzo and/or opiate detox. They will give you the choice based on the severity of your addiction to take either a buprenophine based detox or methadone based detox if you are an opiate addict. Detoxes and rehabs in Philadelphia are often bundled together so the patient can transition from one to the other without leaving the building and having the chance to disappear. Saying "rehab" for most opiate, alcohol and benzo dependent addicts really means a four day detox stay followed by 28 days in rehab.
posted by The Straightener at 9:33 AM on July 23, 2007
In Philadelphia, arrangements for detox stays can be made through BHSI. BHSI will pay for your detox if you do not have insurance (provided you haven't previously "AMA-ed" yourself, or signed out of detox early, against medical advice) and will be sure to place you at a site that can handle the level of medical care you need. They can and will place you for alcohol, benzo and/or opiate detox. They will give you the choice based on the severity of your addiction to take either a buprenophine based detox or methadone based detox if you are an opiate addict. Detoxes and rehabs in Philadelphia are often bundled together so the patient can transition from one to the other without leaving the building and having the chance to disappear. Saying "rehab" for most opiate, alcohol and benzo dependent addicts really means a four day detox stay followed by 28 days in rehab.
posted by The Straightener at 9:33 AM on July 23, 2007
god fucking forbid one questions the infinite wisdoms of our administrators (especially of the newbie administrators, I guess).
Oh, get off it. There's a big difference between questioning administrative decisions and declaring one's unwavering contempt for the swarming mass of fellow mefites' failure to agree with one's opinion, and it was the good sgt's foray into the latter that I was responding to.
It takes a hell of an imagination from a long-timer to foster a model where I am not willing to talk shit out in the grey.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:44 AM on July 23, 2007
Oh, get off it. There's a big difference between questioning administrative decisions and declaring one's unwavering contempt for the swarming mass of fellow mefites' failure to agree with one's opinion, and it was the good sgt's foray into the latter that I was responding to.
It takes a hell of an imagination from a long-timer to foster a model where I am not willing to talk shit out in the grey.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:44 AM on July 23, 2007
Counties and states all over the US provide funding for this, it won't be a problem.
how is the weather there in la la land?
here are the facts in my area: salvation army rarely has beds, 3 to 5 day waiting list. ditto any kind of publically funded program. you can find guys at the local Alano Clubs or NA members who will sit with you while you sweat it out. you cannot be admitted to the general hospital unless you are overtly suicidal. i personally was part of a group who accompanied a guy to the ER where we falsely claimed his head injuries were intentionally self-inflicted instead of due to an accidental fall. at any rate, while opoid withdrawal is a messy business, one is not prone to life-threatening seizures during its course. alcohol withdrawal is much more medically dangerous.
posted by quonsar at 12:45 PM on July 23, 2007
how is the weather there in la la land?
here are the facts in my area: salvation army rarely has beds, 3 to 5 day waiting list. ditto any kind of publically funded program. you can find guys at the local Alano Clubs or NA members who will sit with you while you sweat it out. you cannot be admitted to the general hospital unless you are overtly suicidal. i personally was part of a group who accompanied a guy to the ER where we falsely claimed his head injuries were intentionally self-inflicted instead of due to an accidental fall. at any rate, while opoid withdrawal is a messy business, one is not prone to life-threatening seizures during its course. alcohol withdrawal is much more medically dangerous.
posted by quonsar at 12:45 PM on July 23, 2007
It takes a hell of an imagination from a long-timer to foster a model where I am not willing to talk shit out in the grey.
No ones doing anything to you, perhaps you've become arrogant ?
posted by sgt.serenity at 4:03 PM on July 23, 2007
Can you elaborate, sgt? Not really sure what you're getting at. Are you suggesting matteo wasn't talking to me with his "god fucking forbid" comment, or is there something else going on here?
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:19 PM on July 23, 2007
posted by cortex (staff) at 4:19 PM on July 23, 2007
"Again, when it comes to a situation involving somebody's health in dire circumstances, anonymous internet jagoffs should not be an option, and askme should not facilitate said option."
Really? I asked my pal the detox counsellor (full disclosure— he was a front-line detox counsellor for, what, four years, but now writes policy for the detox he works at), and I thought it was pretty good advice, on the whole.
But I forget— the end of MeTas are supposed to be only for bad blood (so I can't mention that I've been finding bardic more entertaining— in a not sarcastic way!— lately).
posted by klangklangston at 4:39 PM on July 23, 2007
Really? I asked my pal the detox counsellor (full disclosure— he was a front-line detox counsellor for, what, four years, but now writes policy for the detox he works at), and I thought it was pretty good advice, on the whole.
But I forget— the end of MeTas are supposed to be only for bad blood (so I can't mention that I've been finding bardic more entertaining— in a not sarcastic way!— lately).
posted by klangklangston at 4:39 PM on July 23, 2007
Well, they used to be for silly picture antics, UNTIL WE LOST THE IMG TAG!
posted by caddis at 5:02 PM on July 23, 2007
posted by caddis at 5:02 PM on July 23, 2007
I would post a picture of the elephant from Free Jimmy (not pissing).
... post something like that initially, then turn round and start giving advice on how to post properly?
I stand by my comments. Can I borrow your rose-coloured glasses?
posted by sjvilla79 at 7:46 PM on July 23, 2007
... post something like that initially, then turn round and start giving advice on how to post properly?
I stand by my comments. Can I borrow your rose-coloured glasses?
posted by sjvilla79 at 7:46 PM on July 23, 2007
“But somehow this Ethereal Bligh person's anecdote is to be taken as a medically expert one?”
This isn't a medical question. You keep claiming it is, that doesn't make it true.
“you seem to think I'm attempting to assert great authority simply by disagreeing with you, I guess because you think you possess great authority. ”
This question doesn't require great authority and I've not once made a claim to authority. You have, by way of your own individual experience. Which you initially presented as being much more appropriate than it actually is.
“Speaking of trolls, your entire style of discourse is pretty trollish -- you seem totally incapable of disagreeing with anyone without being a dick, which makes conversation pretty taxing”
There's lots of threads that demonstrate that this isn't the case. In this thread, the people with whom I'm disagreeing are being really fucking annoying and they deserve to be treated badly. This isn't a rational debate, this is a few people reacting emotionally to this question on the basis of either a complete lack of experience or their one or two individual experiences which don't really apply, like yours. And I'm mostly being a dick to you because, despite your claims to the contrary, your comments in this thread have all dripped with implicit claims of authority in this matter—authority that, when you finally come clean about it, you very much don't have because you've confused alcohol detox and a short drive with heroin detox and a long drive. I think you've reacted emotionally to this question and then have been dishonest in this thread. That doesn't deserve respectful discourse. You've gotten better from me than you deserve.
“Seconded. Ethereal Bligh goes from 0-100 with people, in the form of badly written ‘fuck you up your ass‘ type rants that really are pointless. That kind of aggressiveness is indicative of a lack of sex.”
You've been trying to provoke me for a while now, I see that you're finally resorting to the bottom of your barrel. However, if you're so concerned about how a lack of sex might be affecting my attitude here on MeFi, then you should set me up with someone. Take the positive approach to problems!
“Actually, I don't want to sound like a dick and I don't want to front like I know what I'm talking about without providing some substance to show that I do so let me flesh that out.”
The Straightener, as far as I know, is the only person here who actually has any real credentials related to this discussion. I'd considered emailing or calling an ex of mine, who worked as a drug and alcohol abuse counselor for almost ten years, and getting her thoughts on this thread, but decided that doing stuff like that is taking this shit way too seriously. However, I'm surprised that there's not been a mefite who's an LCDC and has piped up in this thread. And I guess former heroin addicts and/or Narconon members are reluctant to out themselves here. Too bad.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:10 PM on July 23, 2007
This isn't a medical question. You keep claiming it is, that doesn't make it true.
“you seem to think I'm attempting to assert great authority simply by disagreeing with you, I guess because you think you possess great authority. ”
This question doesn't require great authority and I've not once made a claim to authority. You have, by way of your own individual experience. Which you initially presented as being much more appropriate than it actually is.
“Speaking of trolls, your entire style of discourse is pretty trollish -- you seem totally incapable of disagreeing with anyone without being a dick, which makes conversation pretty taxing”
There's lots of threads that demonstrate that this isn't the case. In this thread, the people with whom I'm disagreeing are being really fucking annoying and they deserve to be treated badly. This isn't a rational debate, this is a few people reacting emotionally to this question on the basis of either a complete lack of experience or their one or two individual experiences which don't really apply, like yours. And I'm mostly being a dick to you because, despite your claims to the contrary, your comments in this thread have all dripped with implicit claims of authority in this matter—authority that, when you finally come clean about it, you very much don't have because you've confused alcohol detox and a short drive with heroin detox and a long drive. I think you've reacted emotionally to this question and then have been dishonest in this thread. That doesn't deserve respectful discourse. You've gotten better from me than you deserve.
“Seconded. Ethereal Bligh goes from 0-100 with people, in the form of badly written ‘fuck you up your ass‘ type rants that really are pointless. That kind of aggressiveness is indicative of a lack of sex.”
You've been trying to provoke me for a while now, I see that you're finally resorting to the bottom of your barrel. However, if you're so concerned about how a lack of sex might be affecting my attitude here on MeFi, then you should set me up with someone. Take the positive approach to problems!
“Actually, I don't want to sound like a dick and I don't want to front like I know what I'm talking about without providing some substance to show that I do so let me flesh that out.”
The Straightener, as far as I know, is the only person here who actually has any real credentials related to this discussion. I'd considered emailing or calling an ex of mine, who worked as a drug and alcohol abuse counselor for almost ten years, and getting her thoughts on this thread, but decided that doing stuff like that is taking this shit way too seriously. However, I'm surprised that there's not been a mefite who's an LCDC and has piped up in this thread. And I guess former heroin addicts and/or Narconon members are reluctant to out themselves here. Too bad.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 10:10 PM on July 23, 2007
There's lots of threads that demonstrate that this isn't the case. In this thread, the people with whom I'm disagreeing are being really fucking annoying and they deserve to be treated badly.
EB, since you perceive correctly that the argument ended a while ago, why are you still fighting? The alcohol/heroin dodge was the endgame. The rest has just been smoke and mirrors.
At this point people are just trying to bait you in order to justify the troll accusations, and you're biting. Come on -- "That kind of aggressiveness is indicative of a lack of sex"? You know better than to fall for that.
posted by spiderwire at 10:34 PM on July 23, 2007
EB, since you perceive correctly that the argument ended a while ago, why are you still fighting? The alcohol/heroin dodge was the endgame. The rest has just been smoke and mirrors.
At this point people are just trying to bait you in order to justify the troll accusations, and you're biting. Come on -- "That kind of aggressiveness is indicative of a lack of sex"? You know better than to fall for that.
posted by spiderwire at 10:34 PM on July 23, 2007
“LCDC ?? Que?”
“Licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor”. That's what it's called in Texas and Ohio and some other states. My ex worked in Texas, mostly with ex-cons when she was in private practice, and with inmates when she worked for the state.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 5:32 AM on July 24, 2007
“Licensed Chemical Dependency Counselor”. That's what it's called in Texas and Ohio and some other states. My ex worked in Texas, mostly with ex-cons when she was in private practice, and with inmates when she worked for the state.
posted by Ethereal Bligh at 5:32 AM on July 24, 2007
Thanks. I guessed it was something of that ilk but I confess to scratching my head for ooooh...all of 30 secs before I gave up. That's a very esoteric acronym, at least from my perspective. I'm not sure I know of any equivalents other than say, D&A counsellor (drug/alcohol), a reference - it's hardly an acronym - that's really only used among health workers I think.
posted by peacay at 6:18 AM on July 24, 2007
posted by peacay at 6:18 AM on July 24, 2007
Trainspotting. The film is set in Edinburgh
Trainspotting is actually set mostly in Leith. Now, some may call Leith a mere suburb of Edinburgh, but that's revisionist haiverin.
posted by meehawl at 10:39 AM on July 24, 2007
Trainspotting is actually set mostly in Leith. Now, some may call Leith a mere suburb of Edinburgh, but that's revisionist haiverin.
posted by meehawl at 10:39 AM on July 24, 2007
This thread is a weird combination of drug-culture naive people whose reaction is OMG HEROIN! with supposedly drug-culture savvy people whose reaction is OMG HEROIN!
For some reason, when I am clubbing, it sometimes happens that an uncomfortable number of people begin asking me if I can sell drugs to them. Of course, they are usually looking for Es, trips, or wiz. I've found that the quickest way to get them to fuck off -- and to discourage their friends -- is to say "I haven't got any. But I've got lots of heroin. Do you want some?" They pretty much leave me alone right away after that. The rare ones that don't? They go in my my 'loser... avoid with extreme prejudice' file.
posted by meehawl at 10:49 AM on July 24, 2007
For some reason, when I am clubbing, it sometimes happens that an uncomfortable number of people begin asking me if I can sell drugs to them. Of course, they are usually looking for Es, trips, or wiz. I've found that the quickest way to get them to fuck off -- and to discourage their friends -- is to say "I haven't got any. But I've got lots of heroin. Do you want some?" They pretty much leave me alone right away after that. The rare ones that don't? They go in my my 'loser... avoid with extreme prejudice' file.
posted by meehawl at 10:49 AM on July 24, 2007
What's wiz
Everything I pretend I know about drugs I learned from Pulp. Billy Whizz was a character in the UK comic book The Beano, which has been running for what seems like the last hundred years or so. Billy's super power was to run incredibly fast. In other words, he was speedy. Hence common slang words for amphetamine in the UK and some former colonies involve variations on a theme of "billy" and "whizz".
posted by meehawl at 5:41 AM on July 25, 2007
Everything I pretend I know about drugs I learned from Pulp. Billy Whizz was a character in the UK comic book The Beano, which has been running for what seems like the last hundred years or so. Billy's super power was to run incredibly fast. In other words, he was speedy. Hence common slang words for amphetamine in the UK and some former colonies involve variations on a theme of "billy" and "whizz".
posted by meehawl at 5:41 AM on July 25, 2007
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2. The poster is being taken for a sucker by her boyfriend.
posted by sgt.serenity at 9:10 PM on July 21, 2007