Not cool. September 13, 2007 9:50 PM Subscribe
Shame on you.
Gratuitous and unwarranted ad hominem attacks intended to stifle discussion of the topic at hand ought to be discouraged.
Gratuitous and unwarranted ad hominem attacks intended to stifle discussion of the topic at hand ought to be discouraged.
Agreed.
posted by monju_bosatsu at 9:55 PM on September 13, 2007
posted by monju_bosatsu at 9:55 PM on September 13, 2007
It's a shame there's no mechanism for flagging "offensive content."
posted by dhammond at 10:07 PM on September 13, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by dhammond at 10:07 PM on September 13, 2007 [2 favorites]
dhammond, I didn't want it deleted, I wanted the opposite: to call attention to it. Flags don't serve that purpose (and likely won't anytime soon).
posted by aberrant at 10:10 PM on September 13, 2007
posted by aberrant at 10:10 PM on September 13, 2007
Those guys make my side look bad.
posted by nasreddin at 10:13 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by nasreddin at 10:13 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]
aberrant : I wanted the opposite: to call attention to it
Thanks for pointing it out. I think we all learned something here. Who's coordinating the group hug?
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 10:20 PM on September 13, 2007
Thanks for pointing it out. I think we all learned something here. Who's coordinating the group hug?
posted by Slack-a-gogo at 10:20 PM on September 13, 2007
Roman Graves made a point, he just made it harshly. brandz was sort of just being a cockwaffle.
posted by tehloki at 10:24 PM on September 13, 2007
posted by tehloki at 10:24 PM on September 13, 2007
We should totally make *.metafilter.com non-smoking.
posted by BeerFilter at 10:25 PM on September 13, 2007
posted by BeerFilter at 10:25 PM on September 13, 2007
I am going to write my Senators and Aldermen to propose a ban on smoking in the public internet.
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 10:27 PM on September 13, 2007
posted by TheOnlyCoolTim at 10:27 PM on September 13, 2007
Who's coordinating the group hug?
I'm on it.
HUGS FOR EVERYONE! YAY!
posted by saguaro at 10:29 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]
I'm on it.
HUGS FOR EVERYONE! YAY!
posted by saguaro at 10:29 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]
There are lots of jerks out there saying jerky things. Unless you're going to comprehensively call them out for each instance, all you'll accomplish by calling attention to them is revealing to the rest of us what your personal pet peeves are so we can accuse you of having "illogic issues" or "politeness issues" by way of dismissing you.
posted by chudmonkey at 10:31 PM on September 13, 2007
posted by chudmonkey at 10:31 PM on September 13, 2007
Dudes, this isn't the place to continue the smoking/non-smoking debate; the mefi thread is still open, and quite relevant. It looks like the consensus around here is that smokers are evil and dumb, and I guess people like brandz and Roman Graves are kind of adding to it, but we're not all evil. I only smoke in my backyard.
posted by tehloki at 10:42 PM on September 13, 2007
posted by tehloki at 10:42 PM on September 13, 2007
Chudmonkey is right. We can't have a MetaTalk post every time someone is a dickbag. Flag it. There are some very smart people watching the flags.
posted by lazaruslong at 10:44 PM on September 13, 2007
posted by lazaruslong at 10:44 PM on September 13, 2007
Chudmonkey and lazaruslong, I guess you misunderstood the point of my callout, which was a request for civility in light of the fact that the author of the post and another person in the thread intimidated one of the commenters opposed to his view to the extent that she left the thread rather than staying to comment further.
The issue, as I see it, is not that people are being jerks/dickbags, it's that the value of the Blue in providing a forum for (sometimes) thoughtful comment and discussion is being diminished due to attacks on people holding opposing viewpoints, and that's offensive to me. (Chudmonkey, there's my personal pet peeve. Accuse away.)
posted by aberrant at 10:49 PM on September 13, 2007
The issue, as I see it, is not that people are being jerks/dickbags, it's that the value of the Blue in providing a forum for (sometimes) thoughtful comment and discussion is being diminished due to attacks on people holding opposing viewpoints, and that's offensive to me. (Chudmonkey, there's my personal pet peeve. Accuse away.)
posted by aberrant at 10:49 PM on September 13, 2007
you know, I think it's wrong for people to be dickbags about someone's persanal history. I know that you were all wondering "yeah, but what does shmegegge think about all this?" so there you go.
on the other hand, one has to wonder, how on earth do you continue a conversation after someone has dropped the "yeah, well my friend/family died because [x]" bomb? Not just here, but in real life, too. It's like "well, okay. I have nothing to say about that. But I would like to say that I think I should be allowed to smoke anyway, but I REALLY don't want to offend you."
posted by shmegegge at 10:54 PM on September 13, 2007
on the other hand, one has to wonder, how on earth do you continue a conversation after someone has dropped the "yeah, well my friend/family died because [x]" bomb? Not just here, but in real life, too. It's like "well, okay. I have nothing to say about that. But I would like to say that I think I should be allowed to smoke anyway, but I REALLY don't want to offend you."
posted by shmegegge at 10:54 PM on September 13, 2007
I see that quitting the MeFi thread hasn't helped as much as I might have hoped.
My father's not dead. I don't think he plans on dying in the immediate future, at least he didn't seem to think so while we were on a cruise to Alaska together last week. But he does have emphysema and a variety of other ailments related to his smoking, which is a factor in my 'smoking sucks' opinion--though I realize I'm self-centered enough that it's my asthma far more than his illnesses that leads me to my 'smoking sucks' opinion.
But when someone says 'Daddy Issues' they're implying some sort of weird, freudian--possibly sexual--dysfunctional shit in our relationship, and I find that pretty disturbing. I'm not losing sleep over it (Honest! I'm losing sleep over the fact that I haven't managed to get back onto Eastern Time since I got back from the aforementioned vacation) but I'd been kind of enjoying that thread--throwing out those sort of half-baked ideas I come up with when I think about how we much better off we'd all be without cigarettes--and it was enough to make me not want to participate anymore. I'm not flouncing off or quitting the site or flaming out, I'll just not read that thread anymore. No big deal.
posted by jacquilynne at 11:06 PM on September 13, 2007 [3 favorites]
My father's not dead. I don't think he plans on dying in the immediate future, at least he didn't seem to think so while we were on a cruise to Alaska together last week. But he does have emphysema and a variety of other ailments related to his smoking, which is a factor in my 'smoking sucks' opinion--though I realize I'm self-centered enough that it's my asthma far more than his illnesses that leads me to my 'smoking sucks' opinion.
But when someone says 'Daddy Issues' they're implying some sort of weird, freudian--possibly sexual--dysfunctional shit in our relationship, and I find that pretty disturbing. I'm not losing sleep over it (Honest! I'm losing sleep over the fact that I haven't managed to get back onto Eastern Time since I got back from the aforementioned vacation) but I'd been kind of enjoying that thread--throwing out those sort of half-baked ideas I come up with when I think about how we much better off we'd all be without cigarettes--and it was enough to make me not want to participate anymore. I'm not flouncing off or quitting the site or flaming out, I'll just not read that thread anymore. No big deal.
posted by jacquilynne at 11:06 PM on September 13, 2007 [3 favorites]
Where would be without kindergarten teachers to scold us when we go wrong?
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 11:07 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 11:07 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]
If metafilter begins to smoke, seek shelter and cover head.
posted by iamabot at 11:19 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by iamabot at 11:19 PM on September 13, 2007 [1 favorite]
I have daddy issues, and I'm taking it out on all y'all.
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:33 PM on September 13, 2007
posted by Astro Zombie at 11:33 PM on September 13, 2007
Externalities are your problem!
posted by dirigibleman at 12:23 AM on September 14, 2007 [4 favorites]
posted by dirigibleman at 12:23 AM on September 14, 2007 [4 favorites]
IM IN UR DADDY ISSUZ, CAUSIN U ASTHMA.
posted by allkindsoftime at 12:48 AM on September 14, 2007 [6 favorites]
posted by allkindsoftime at 12:48 AM on September 14, 2007 [6 favorites]
Smoke 'em if you got 'em.
posted by loquacious at 1:32 AM on September 14, 2007
posted by loquacious at 1:32 AM on September 14, 2007
My daddy issues drive me to drink . . . and smoke crack.
posted by nola at 5:07 AM on September 14, 2007
posted by nola at 5:07 AM on September 14, 2007
I am my daddy's issue.
posted by Falconetti at 5:12 AM on September 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by Falconetti at 5:12 AM on September 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
I AM ASTRO ZOMBIE'S DADDY ISSUES AND I AM TAKING MYSELF OUT UPON YOU ALL
posted by baphomet at 5:28 AM on September 14, 2007
posted by baphomet at 5:28 AM on September 14, 2007
on the other hand, one has to wonder, how on earth do you continue a conversation after someone has dropped the "yeah, well my friend/family died because [x]" bomb? Not just here, but in real life, too. It's like "well, okay. I have nothing to say about that. But I would like to say that I think I should be allowed to smoke anyway, but I REALLY don't want to offend you."
The smoking debate aside, this is exactly why I'm not so sure those guys were being dickbags/cockwaffles/what have you. It reminds me of a long ago creative writing workshop wherein a classmate read the saptastic Hallmark card-style poem, something truly awful, and at the end looked up at the bunch of us with tears gleaming in her eyes and said: "I wrote that last night, while my father was in the emergency room." BAM! Emotional blackmail for the insta-A!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:40 AM on September 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
The smoking debate aside, this is exactly why I'm not so sure those guys were being dickbags/cockwaffles/what have you. It reminds me of a long ago creative writing workshop wherein a classmate read the saptastic Hallmark card-style poem, something truly awful, and at the end looked up at the bunch of us with tears gleaming in her eyes and said: "I wrote that last night, while my father was in the emergency room." BAM! Emotional blackmail for the insta-A!
posted by kittens for breakfast at 5:40 AM on September 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
author of the post and another person in the thread intimidated one of the commenters opposed to his view to the extent that she left the thread rather than staying to comment further.
Oh, gimme a break. The comments were jerky but they weren't all that weird, and jacquilynne's decision about whether or not to participate in the thread was her own. This isn't a round of kumbaya, it's the internet. If you don't want something referred to, or even mocked, then don't bring it up. Once you do, it's pretty much fair game. Another way to say this is that if jacquilynne is mature enough for us to care about her opinion then she should be mature enough to not be intimidated by non-intimidating comments. She can choose to leave a conversation for any reason, but the very thing that grants her opinion weight is the thing that makes that decision her own choice.
All that said, I thought the two linked comments were jerky. Not callout worthy by a long long shot, but jerky.
posted by OmieWise at 5:46 AM on September 14, 2007
Oh, gimme a break. The comments were jerky but they weren't all that weird, and jacquilynne's decision about whether or not to participate in the thread was her own. This isn't a round of kumbaya, it's the internet. If you don't want something referred to, or even mocked, then don't bring it up. Once you do, it's pretty much fair game. Another way to say this is that if jacquilynne is mature enough for us to care about her opinion then she should be mature enough to not be intimidated by non-intimidating comments. She can choose to leave a conversation for any reason, but the very thing that grants her opinion weight is the thing that makes that decision her own choice.
All that said, I thought the two linked comments were jerky. Not callout worthy by a long long shot, but jerky.
posted by OmieWise at 5:46 AM on September 14, 2007
Just to be clear, my comment is directed toward aberrant, not jacquilynne, who seems to have a good attitude about it all.
posted by OmieWise at 5:48 AM on September 14, 2007
posted by OmieWise at 5:48 AM on September 14, 2007
I saw them this morning at about the same time that I saw this thread so I left them in there instead of abiding by the flaq queue and at least thinking about removing them. I have mixed feelings. On the one side I feel like yeah it's the Internet and people are going to push back when you push their buttons. On the other hand "daddy issues"?! Ewww, it's a weird pychosexual allegation that takes the discussion/debate to a whole new "fuck you" level which I find annoying and distateful and a shitty thing to say to a woman you're disagreeing with.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:06 AM on September 14, 2007 [4 favorites]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 7:06 AM on September 14, 2007 [4 favorites]
What's a dickbag?
Is that like the takeout version of a bucket of cocks?
posted by dw at 7:07 AM on September 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
Is that like the takeout version of a bucket of cocks?
posted by dw at 7:07 AM on September 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
jacquilynne: Sorry if my comment sucked or hurt your feelings. Thanks for sharing that part of you with metafilter. And your story helped me through a rough day where I wanted to go buy a pack again.
posted by YoBananaBoy at 7:18 AM on September 14, 2007
posted by YoBananaBoy at 7:18 AM on September 14, 2007
But when someone says 'Daddy Issues' they're implying some sort of weird, freudian--possibly sexual--dysfunctional shit in our relationship, and I find that pretty disturbing.
I have to agree. That was a totally fucked up thing to say, and completely unwarranted for the calm discussion at hand.
posted by agregoli at 7:37 AM on September 14, 2007
I have to agree. That was a totally fucked up thing to say, and completely unwarranted for the calm discussion at hand.
posted by agregoli at 7:37 AM on September 14, 2007
There are nicer ways to in essence say the same thing. "Daddy issues" was just a big FU to jacquilynne. I am disagreeing with her in the thread; I fail to find her arguments about how cigarettes have affected her father convincing, or even logical in why anyone should be banned from smoking. They are however not "daddy issues" and shame on you two for pushing that button.
posted by caddis at 7:41 AM on September 14, 2007
posted by caddis at 7:41 AM on September 14, 2007
Seeing as how most smokers have an oral-fixation, it's probably just projection.
posted by empath at 7:45 AM on September 14, 2007 [5 favorites]
posted by empath at 7:45 AM on September 14, 2007 [5 favorites]
Both of my grandparents and my great grandmother died horrible deaths from cancer from smoking. That's not really a good argument for banning smoking though, because they chose to smoke and they took the consequences of it.
However, 'My father gave me asthma from smoking", if true, is a perfectly valid reason for wanting to ban smoking, because its evidence that other people's 'personal' choices have negative effects on people around them.
I don't agree with it, but its a valid argument, and it deserves a better response than that.
posted by empath at 7:48 AM on September 14, 2007
However, 'My father gave me asthma from smoking", if true, is a perfectly valid reason for wanting to ban smoking, because its evidence that other people's 'personal' choices have negative effects on people around them.
I don't agree with it, but its a valid argument, and it deserves a better response than that.
posted by empath at 7:48 AM on September 14, 2007
Ewww, it's a weird pychosexual allegation that takes the discussion/debate to a whole new "fuck you" level which I find annoying and distateful and a shitty thing to say to a woman you're disagreeing with.
Agreed. Daddy issues......ugh. Squicky and dismissive and patronizing.
posted by iconomy at 7:56 AM on September 14, 2007
Agreed. Daddy issues......ugh. Squicky and dismissive and patronizing.
posted by iconomy at 7:56 AM on September 14, 2007
It's a rude thing to say, but all this fuss about it just empowers the speakers of the insult and gives the remarks more significance than such throwaway stupidities deserve.
posted by brain_drain at 8:09 AM on September 14, 2007
posted by brain_drain at 8:09 AM on September 14, 2007
When a smoker meets a non-smoker, one of them is going to act like a shit. Don't let it be you.
posted by Jody Tresidder at 8:17 AM on September 14, 2007 [3 favorites]
posted by Jody Tresidder at 8:17 AM on September 14, 2007 [3 favorites]
What's a dickbag?
Is that like the takeout version of a bucket of cocks?
It's more like carry on luggage, where the bucket of cocks is stowaway.
posted by shmegegge at 8:34 AM on September 14, 2007
Is that like the takeout version of a bucket of cocks?
It's more like carry on luggage, where the bucket of cocks is stowaway.
posted by shmegegge at 8:34 AM on September 14, 2007
Agreed that it seemed like a pretty jerky way to respond. There's also the question of possibly different connotations for "daddy issues"—I can see the really ew-tastic reading, and that's part of what makes the comments seem kind of fucked up to me, but I can also see a more generic "worldview defined by relationship with parent" reading that's still kind of an asshole thing to say but doesn't touch any of the psychosexual implications we're talking about.
Not mefi at its best, anyway.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:01 AM on September 14, 2007
Not mefi at its best, anyway.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:01 AM on September 14, 2007
Either use of "daddy issues" is insulting and unnecessary in this case; there are fairly strong correlations between exposure to second-hand smoke and respiratory disease. While it is impossible to say that this person's asthma was absolutely 100% caused by her father's smoking, it is not unreasonable to assume that her father's smoking played a role in the etiology of her disease. The ignorant dismissal of her health condition, and her father's habit's probable role in its development, as "daddy issues" strongly suggests that these guys are just reactionary sexist jerks.
posted by Mister_A at 9:10 AM on September 14, 2007
posted by Mister_A at 9:10 AM on September 14, 2007
I have Daddy-issues. It has made me a Drama Queen.
Obviously I expect the resident butter-eaters with Daddy-issues to take offense. I expect they'll align with the hurf durf brigade to promote a zero-tolerance policy for tolerance.
Anyway, all I'm saying is that "suck it, haters" can also apply to a bucket full of cocks.
posted by McGuillicuddy at 9:11 AM on September 14, 2007
Obviously I expect the resident butter-eaters with Daddy-issues to take offense. I expect they'll align with the hurf durf brigade to promote a zero-tolerance policy for tolerance.
Anyway, all I'm saying is that "suck it, haters" can also apply to a bucket full of cocks.
posted by McGuillicuddy at 9:11 AM on September 14, 2007
Again, I'm with iconomy on this. (get out of my head!)
posted by cowbellemoo at 9:15 AM on September 14, 2007
posted by cowbellemoo at 9:15 AM on September 14, 2007
*burrows deeper into cowbellemoo's brain, finds nice comfy snuggly spot*
posted by iconomy at 9:22 AM on September 14, 2007
posted by iconomy at 9:22 AM on September 14, 2007
Now, that I think about it, I am my daddy's issue.
posted by Astro Zombie at 9:25 AM on September 14, 2007
posted by Astro Zombie at 9:25 AM on September 14, 2007
OmieWise sez: If you don't want something referred to, or even mocked, then don't bring it up. Once you do, it's pretty much fair game.
eh? I don't think so, and I think - since this purports to be a community site - we can set community standards for this. I mean, if someone discloses that they're gay, and someone else calls them "faggot" because they disagree with them on an issue, is that OK with you? I mean, as far as we know, jacquilynne doesn't even have any "daddy issues." She simply referenced her the effects of smoking on her father. If it were her sister with emphysema, would it be fair to say she has "sister issues"?
posted by desjardins at 9:30 AM on September 14, 2007 [3 favorites]
eh? I don't think so, and I think - since this purports to be a community site - we can set community standards for this. I mean, if someone discloses that they're gay, and someone else calls them "faggot" because they disagree with them on an issue, is that OK with you? I mean, as far as we know, jacquilynne doesn't even have any "daddy issues." She simply referenced her the effects of smoking on her father. If it were her sister with emphysema, would it be fair to say she has "sister issues"?
posted by desjardins at 9:30 AM on September 14, 2007 [3 favorites]
OmieWise sez: If you don't want something referred to, or even mocked, then don't bring it up. Once you do, it's pretty much fair game.
So does that mean since you've made it abundantly clear with that statement you are a monstrous asshole, we can call you such at any time?
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 9:39 AM on September 14, 2007
So does that mean since you've made it abundantly clear with that statement you are a monstrous asshole, we can call you such at any time?
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 9:39 AM on September 14, 2007
I kind of expect that if the psychosexual overtones weren't intended, it would be "issues with your father" or at least "father issues." The use of "daddy" seems like it's either to refer to that sort of thing, or just to be extra condescending.
But maybe I'm overthinking it.
posted by L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg at 9:39 AM on September 14, 2007
But maybe I'm overthinking it.
posted by L. Fitzgerald Sjoberg at 9:39 AM on September 14, 2007
Yeah, I hear you, Sjoberg. Just speculatin'.
since you've made it abundantly clear with that statement you are a monstrous asshole
I don't think that was clear at all. Omie's point, I'm thinking, is that the act of putting personal information into a discussion on the net is not something that is ever going to come with provisos. If people are jerks and respond to it, shouldn't shock anyone, though that doesn't make them not jerks for doing it.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:52 AM on September 14, 2007
since you've made it abundantly clear with that statement you are a monstrous asshole
I don't think that was clear at all. Omie's point, I'm thinking, is that the act of putting personal information into a discussion on the net is not something that is ever going to come with provisos. If people are jerks and respond to it, shouldn't shock anyone, though that doesn't make them not jerks for doing it.
posted by cortex (staff) at 9:52 AM on September 14, 2007
I didn't want it deleted, I wanted the opposite: to call attention to it.
Wasn't it Dr. Phil-In-The-Blank who said that jerk-like behavior and language is actually a "plea for attention"?
posted by Robert Angelo at 9:56 AM on September 14, 2007
Wasn't it Dr. Phil-In-The-Blank who said that jerk-like behavior and language is actually a "plea for attention"?
posted by Robert Angelo at 9:56 AM on September 14, 2007
Dr. Phil clearly has mommy issues.
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:07 AM on September 14, 2007
posted by Brandon Blatcher at 10:07 AM on September 14, 2007
I mean, if someone discloses that they're gay, and someone else calls them "faggot" because they disagree with them on an issue, is that OK with you?
Yeah, except it wasn't that at all. I'm sympathetic to the notion that "daddy issues" is a bit creepy a thing to say (I like jessamyn's comment in that regard), but I read it as a failed joke, not as an expression of hate. And the notion that someone got essentially silenced ("intimidated") by something so mild is disturbing as a way to think about the site. It basically makes all disagreement which isn't couched in exclusively rational language (vis. dirtynumbangelboy's comment above) beyond the pale. Added to that, the creepy church lady tone of this post ("Shame on you"?!? Seriously, WTF?), makes it much harder to extend my sympathy with regards to the slight creepiness of "daddy issues" to the call-out in general.
But I'm glad I'm buddies with Fred Phelps for writing that, I feel so intimidated.
posted by OmieWise at 10:21 AM on September 14, 2007
Yeah, except it wasn't that at all. I'm sympathetic to the notion that "daddy issues" is a bit creepy a thing to say (I like jessamyn's comment in that regard), but I read it as a failed joke, not as an expression of hate. And the notion that someone got essentially silenced ("intimidated") by something so mild is disturbing as a way to think about the site. It basically makes all disagreement which isn't couched in exclusively rational language (vis. dirtynumbangelboy's comment above) beyond the pale. Added to that, the creepy church lady tone of this post ("Shame on you"?!? Seriously, WTF?), makes it much harder to extend my sympathy with regards to the slight creepiness of "daddy issues" to the call-out in general.
But I'm glad I'm buddies with Fred Phelps for writing that, I feel so intimidated.
posted by OmieWise at 10:21 AM on September 14, 2007
It may just be because I'm high and I've spent too much time on MeFi recently, but McGuillicuddy's comment seems neatly auto-Markov'ed.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 10:23 AM on September 14, 2007
posted by BitterOldPunk at 10:23 AM on September 14, 2007
It will not do, it will not do
Any more, dickbag blue
To create a patriarchal miasma
Of jaquilynne's asthma
Barely able to breathe or Achoo.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 10:25 AM on September 14, 2007
Any more, dickbag blue
To create a patriarchal miasma
Of jaquilynne's asthma
Barely able to breathe or Achoo.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 10:25 AM on September 14, 2007
I got rid of my Daddy issues on eBay. Possibly NSFW.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:38 AM on September 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 10:38 AM on September 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
And the notion that someone got essentially silenced ("intimidated") by something so mild is disturbing as a way to think about the site.
In my defense, intimidated was not my choice of word, and I didn't know about this MeTa post until long after it was posted. I don't think I was intimidated, just insulted.
I've lately found that dealing with rude people isn't worth the trouble. It's one thing to cope with it in my job, or in dealings with various corporations. But when it comes to things I do for entertainment, it's just not worth it. I like MetaFilter, but if the conversation gets unpleasant, well, I have other things I can do with my leisure time, and there are other threads I can read. There'd been the earlier hurf-durfing thing in that thread with caddis (which was resolved really amiably in email, though I did threaten to steal his french fries and eat them), so I was already slightly twitchy.
If it mattered--if I'd been at the council meeting where the issue was discussed, for example--I wouldn't have been silenced by that. I would have just ripped someone a new one for their tragic lack of rhetorical skill and then moved back to the point at hand.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:43 AM on September 14, 2007
In my defense, intimidated was not my choice of word, and I didn't know about this MeTa post until long after it was posted. I don't think I was intimidated, just insulted.
I've lately found that dealing with rude people isn't worth the trouble. It's one thing to cope with it in my job, or in dealings with various corporations. But when it comes to things I do for entertainment, it's just not worth it. I like MetaFilter, but if the conversation gets unpleasant, well, I have other things I can do with my leisure time, and there are other threads I can read. There'd been the earlier hurf-durfing thing in that thread with caddis (which was resolved really amiably in email, though I did threaten to steal his french fries and eat them), so I was already slightly twitchy.
If it mattered--if I'd been at the council meeting where the issue was discussed, for example--I wouldn't have been silenced by that. I would have just ripped someone a new one for their tragic lack of rhetorical skill and then moved back to the point at hand.
posted by jacquilynne at 10:43 AM on September 14, 2007
OmieWise, I wasn't accusing you of being a homophobe.
posted by desjardins at 10:45 AM on September 14, 2007
posted by desjardins at 10:45 AM on September 14, 2007
"I mean, if someone discloses that they're gay, and someone else calls them "faggot" because they disagree with them on an issue, is that OK with you?"
Way to queer the issue.
posted by klangklangston at 10:46 AM on September 14, 2007
Way to queer the issue.
posted by klangklangston at 10:46 AM on September 14, 2007
In my defense, intimidated was not my choice of word,...
I know, my comments were about this callout, which I made a bit more clear above, rather than about your response, which I thought was completely reasonable inthread. I also thought your first comment in this thread was great.
posted by OmieWise at 10:52 AM on September 14, 2007
I know, my comments were about this callout, which I made a bit more clear above, rather than about your response, which I thought was completely reasonable inthread. I also thought your first comment in this thread was great.
posted by OmieWise at 10:52 AM on September 14, 2007
Interestingly, nobody accused me of having "Daddy Issues" when I commented:
Anybody who blows cigarette smoke in my face (including my father when I was a child) is assaulting me. Fortunately, my father quit smoking after i developed childhood asthma, but he's been a total grouch ever since.
And, frankly, I had expected some 'blowback' from that.
But then, I was responding to a previous trolling from SCDB: "Anyone who thinks they know better than I do what I should do, and who attempts to use the power of law to force me to behave as they think I should, are tyrants." And I also personally believe it is wrong and should be illegal for anybody to murder SCDB, but I guess he disagrees with me on that, too.
posted by wendell at 11:28 AM on September 14, 2007
Anybody who blows cigarette smoke in my face (including my father when I was a child) is assaulting me. Fortunately, my father quit smoking after i developed childhood asthma, but he's been a total grouch ever since.
And, frankly, I had expected some 'blowback' from that.
But then, I was responding to a previous trolling from SCDB: "Anyone who thinks they know better than I do what I should do, and who attempts to use the power of law to force me to behave as they think I should, are tyrants." And I also personally believe it is wrong and should be illegal for anybody to murder SCDB, but I guess he disagrees with me on that, too.
posted by wendell at 11:28 AM on September 14, 2007
When I was a wee Ampersand and played Ghostbusters my mom would provide the spectres by blowing smoke into my homemade trap. You think the prospect of getting slimed is scary, try facing down a carcinogenic cloud monster armed with only a garishly-decorated wrapping paper tube, shoebox, and your imagination!
Which is why I blame her for my pack-a-day habit. Thanks for the fond memories and night wheezes, you crazy-creative, lovingly indulgent child poisoner!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:43 AM on September 14, 2007
Which is why I blame her for my pack-a-day habit. Thanks for the fond memories and night wheezes, you crazy-creative, lovingly indulgent child poisoner!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 11:43 AM on September 14, 2007
Jacquilynne's suggestion that an enjoyable and legal pastime be made illegal is frankly quite stupid and deserving of mockery. Social nannies can be more obnoxious and polluting with their incessant harping and moaning yet I don't think their whinging ought to be criminalized (thought it might be nice). And while the choice of the word "daddy" may have been unfortunate, jacquilynne was the one who connected the issue with her father -- thus it becomes a father issue. Also irritating is her suggestion that smokers are responsible for her own poor health -- disproved by a later comment, by the way.
What is interesting is the fact that a mildly provocative jibe like "daddy issue" be the comment that gets called out, while others more contemptuous, threatening and ugly are ignored, such as the one in which it's suggested that smokers ought to be physically assaulted for doing nothing but enjoying their right to a ciggie.
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 12:04 PM on September 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
What is interesting is the fact that a mildly provocative jibe like "daddy issue" be the comment that gets called out, while others more contemptuous, threatening and ugly are ignored, such as the one in which it's suggested that smokers ought to be physically assaulted for doing nothing but enjoying their right to a ciggie.
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 12:04 PM on September 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
"ciggie" is a revolting word.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 12:33 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 12:33 PM on September 14, 2007
Sorry. Should have said "fag".
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 12:37 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 12:37 PM on September 14, 2007
OmieWise, I wasn't accusing you of being a homophobe.
I know.
posted by OmieWise at 12:39 PM on September 14, 2007
I know.
posted by OmieWise at 12:39 PM on September 14, 2007
Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese is a smoker, yes? I can only share with you that my mother, who smoked for 43 years, never came down with emphysema..., no something far more insidious. Allow me to present (*TA-DA*) COPD! Please pay close attention to bulleted paragraph 3: "Smoking is the primary risk factor for COPD. Approximately 80 to 90 percent of COPD deaths are caused by smoking. Female smokers are nearly 13 times as likely to die from COPD as women who have never smoked. Male smokers are nearly 12 times as likely to die from COPD as men who have never smoked.3" (Also, I think my husband has it, too - he also smoked for over 40 years.)
posted by Lynsey at 12:55 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by Lynsey at 12:55 PM on September 14, 2007
since you've made it abundantly clear with that statement you are a monstrous asshole
I don't think that was clear at all. Omie's point, I'm thinking, is that the act of putting personal information into a discussion on the net is not something that is ever going to come with provisos. If people are jerks and respond to it, shouldn't shock anyone, though that doesn't make them not jerks for doing it.
Except that's not what he said. He said that when you put a comment out there, it's all fair game. What you said is quite different: that we shouldn't be surprised when jerks make it fair game. There is a gulf of meaning between those two statements.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 12:58 PM on September 14, 2007
I don't think that was clear at all. Omie's point, I'm thinking, is that the act of putting personal information into a discussion on the net is not something that is ever going to come with provisos. If people are jerks and respond to it, shouldn't shock anyone, though that doesn't make them not jerks for doing it.
Except that's not what he said. He said that when you put a comment out there, it's all fair game. What you said is quite different: that we shouldn't be surprised when jerks make it fair game. There is a gulf of meaning between those two statements.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 12:58 PM on September 14, 2007
He said that when you put a comment out there, it's all fair game. What you said is quite different: that we shouldn't be surprised when jerks make it fair game.
Actually, you should go back and read my comment. To the extent that I commented on the specific comments in question, I did indeed call them "jerky." I continue to think that legislating mild jerkiness is not in the site's interest.
But I'm not surprised that you're jerkily taking it out of context.
posted by OmieWise at 1:02 PM on September 14, 2007
Actually, you should go back and read my comment. To the extent that I commented on the specific comments in question, I did indeed call them "jerky." I continue to think that legislating mild jerkiness is not in the site's interest.
But I'm not surprised that you're jerkily taking it out of context.
posted by OmieWise at 1:02 PM on September 14, 2007
aberrant wrote: The issue, as I see it, is not that people are being jerks/dickbags, it's that the value of the Blue in providing a forum for (sometimes) thoughtful comment and discussion is being diminished due to attacks on people holding opposing viewpoints, and that's offensive to me.
What I find more intellectually offensive is when a person wanders into a predictably provocative thread, contributes something that is bound to provoke a less-than-positive reaction, and then ends up being surprised or put off by said reaction when it inevitably occurs.
Lynsey: Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese is a smoker, yes?
Because you're obviously more intelligent than a hypothetical smoker, and therefore your utterances inherently carry more weight, yes?
posted by CKmtl at 1:14 PM on September 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
What I find more intellectually offensive is when a person wanders into a predictably provocative thread, contributes something that is bound to provoke a less-than-positive reaction, and then ends up being surprised or put off by said reaction when it inevitably occurs.
Lynsey: Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese is a smoker, yes?
Because you're obviously more intelligent than a hypothetical smoker, and therefore your utterances inherently carry more weight, yes?
posted by CKmtl at 1:14 PM on September 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
Lynsey, I don't get your point. I never tried to deny or even suggest that smoking is not bad for you health. Only an idiot or a Richmond lawyer would argue otherwise. But I do believe we have the right to consume whatever we like, even though it might be bad for us, like cigarettes and Scotch and feta cheese.
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 1:17 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 1:17 PM on September 14, 2007
Feta cheese is bad for us? God smite us all! That's the worst news I've ever heard. Worse than the Rob-Zombie Halloween remake, even.
posted by cgc373 at 1:30 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by cgc373 at 1:30 PM on September 14, 2007
Why is there a hyphen in "Rob-Zombie"? Why, God, why?
posted by cgc373 at 1:31 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by cgc373 at 1:31 PM on September 14, 2007
Guys I just smoked a stick of butter, get over here and fucking make me feel bad about myself right now!
posted by Divine_Wino at 1:38 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by Divine_Wino at 1:38 PM on September 14, 2007
ps. Omiewise is probably as far opposite of an asshole as you can get, like in a scientific, quantifiable way. If a particle of Omiewise comes into contact with a particle of asshole the whole universe turns inside out and we're all Red Lectroids from the planet 10 all of a sudden kind of thing.
posted by Divine_Wino at 1:41 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by Divine_Wino at 1:41 PM on September 14, 2007
pps. I read the "daddy issue" comments and said to myself, "ahh we're dealing with some old school unreconstructed giant dickheads over here, I bet these guys are superfun to have over for dinner, all humiliating their wives with barely concealed hateful remarks about their appearance and ability to drive."
Rudeness is the lamest of all the personality flaws and that's why I think we should bring back dueling.
posted by Divine_Wino at 1:48 PM on September 14, 2007 [3 favorites]
Rudeness is the lamest of all the personality flaws and that's why I think we should bring back dueling.
posted by Divine_Wino at 1:48 PM on September 14, 2007 [3 favorites]
My, Martha, this is a sub-par ham.
posted by lazaruslong at 1:56 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by lazaruslong at 1:56 PM on September 14, 2007
I think we should bring back public shaming for people who use "ad hominem" seriously on the Internet.
posted by cmonkey at 2:54 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by cmonkey at 2:54 PM on September 14, 2007
Rhetoric update: dismissing someone's arguments on the basis that they are a white rapper is now known as an ad eminem.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:08 PM on September 14, 2007 [9 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:08 PM on September 14, 2007 [9 favorites]
And you don't even want to know about the ad enema.
posted by brain_drain at 3:13 PM on September 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by brain_drain at 3:13 PM on September 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
This just in: arguing on the internet is still like running in the Special Olympics.
posted by blenderfish at 3:17 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by blenderfish at 3:17 PM on September 14, 2007
lolfatties attacks are henceforth known as ad nomnomnom.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 3:26 PM on September 14, 2007 [5 favorites]
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 3:26 PM on September 14, 2007 [5 favorites]
Arguments that depend on hyperdramatic lipsyncing to europop: ad numanuma.
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:28 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by cortex (staff) at 3:28 PM on September 14, 2007
Arguments that rely on mocking the opposition's use of its/it's or they're/their/there: ad homonym
posted by blenderfish at 3:30 PM on September 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by blenderfish at 3:30 PM on September 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
Attacks on the watery quality of your pozole: add hominy.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 3:31 PM on September 14, 2007 [4 favorites]
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 3:31 PM on September 14, 2007 [4 favorites]
ah fuck, I'm crying.
posted by desjardins at 3:34 PM on September 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by desjardins at 3:34 PM on September 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
Arguments that specify that your mother and close relatives are poor, white trash: add momma n 'em
posted by BobFrapples at 4:01 PM on September 14, 2007 [5 favorites]
posted by BobFrapples at 4:01 PM on September 14, 2007 [5 favorites]
I hate hominy.
posted by puke & cry at 4:01 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by puke & cry at 4:01 PM on September 14, 2007
This callout: add dramanym
posted by blenderfish at 4:09 PM on September 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by blenderfish at 4:09 PM on September 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
Attacks on your retreat into opiates to cope with the burden of Victorian values: ad laudanum.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 4:15 PM on September 14, 2007 [5 favorites]
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 4:15 PM on September 14, 2007 [5 favorites]
Arguments that occur on New Year's Day in the south ad hoppin' john
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:18 PM on September 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 4:18 PM on September 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
Argument phrased as "you know who else...?" = Ad Nazium
posted by oneirodynia at 4:23 PM on September 14, 2007 [6 favorites]
posted by oneirodynia at 4:23 PM on September 14, 2007 [6 favorites]
Attacks based on your choice of bat: ad aluminum
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 4:39 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by strangeleftydoublethink at 4:39 PM on September 14, 2007
Attacks on the Jewish holidays: ad Hanukkah.
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 4:46 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by Kraftmatic Adjustable Cheese at 4:46 PM on September 14, 2007
Attacks on inarticulate posters: ad um..'n'...um...
posted by GrammarMoses at 4:59 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by GrammarMoses at 4:59 PM on September 14, 2007
Attacks on your white trash, mayonnaise eatin', crack and pole-smokin trailer-dwellin mama:
Ad Eminem
posted by docpops at 5:30 PM on September 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
Ad Eminem
posted by docpops at 5:30 PM on September 14, 2007 [1 favorite]
docpops, that's a shameful recyclo ad absurdum, dangit.
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:47 PM on September 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 5:47 PM on September 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
And now with the ad min attacks!
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:06 PM on September 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:06 PM on September 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
comments that you are anb overweight bus driver from Brooklyn: ad hominemhominemhominem...
posted by jonmc at 6:20 PM on September 14, 2007 [3 favorites]
posted by jonmc at 6:20 PM on September 14, 2007 [3 favorites]
Attacks on your love of tiny chocolate morsels: ad M&M
posted by tristeza at 6:24 PM on September 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
posted by tristeza at 6:24 PM on September 14, 2007 [2 favorites]
Accusations of being a MILF?
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 6:37 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 6:37 PM on September 14, 2007
Arguments implicitly postulating existence of monkey god: ad hanuman.
Sorry, I just woke up.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:24 PM on September 14, 2007
Sorry, I just woke up.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 7:24 PM on September 14, 2007
ad honeymum
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 7:29 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by goodnewsfortheinsane at 7:29 PM on September 14, 2007
Attacks on drug-addled gang members: ad homie-numb
[NOT RACIST]
posted by GrammarMoses at 7:32 PM on September 14, 2007
[NOT RACIST]
posted by GrammarMoses at 7:32 PM on September 14, 2007
Attacks made by a barbershop quartet: Ad harmony.
Not to be confused with attacks based on comparisons to a questionable matchmaking website: Ad eharmony.
Attacks based on 'lightbulb jokes': Ad howmany...
Attacks by persons unable to remember the words: Ad hummmmm...
And one I don't need to explain: Ad yo-mama.
Attacks comparing one's sense of humor to wendell's: Ad punimem
posted by wendell at 8:06 PM on September 14, 2007
Not to be confused with attacks based on comparisons to a questionable matchmaking website: Ad eharmony.
Attacks based on 'lightbulb jokes': Ad howmany...
Attacks by persons unable to remember the words: Ad hummmmm...
And one I don't need to explain: Ad yo-mama.
Attacks comparing one's sense of humor to wendell's: Ad punimem
posted by wendell at 8:06 PM on September 14, 2007
Attacks using quotations from Dickens' "A Christmas Carol": Ad humbug!
posted by wendell at 9:13 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by wendell at 9:13 PM on September 14, 2007
This thread took a left turn somewhere and ended up in Fucking Awesomeville.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 9:26 PM on September 14, 2007
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 9:26 PM on September 14, 2007
Ad-numbnum
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:35 AM on September 15, 2007
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:35 AM on September 15, 2007
Attacking soaying you need to step away from the computer: ad numb bum
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:30 AM on September 15, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:30 AM on September 15, 2007 [1 favorite]
Attacking my typing of the above post: ad numb thumb
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:31 AM on September 15, 2007 [1 favorite]
posted by The corpse in the library at 7:31 AM on September 15, 2007 [1 favorite]
ad numb bum
Aw, I was hoping that would be for attacks about one's reliance upon benzocaine-based desensitizing anal lubes.
posted by CKmtl at 7:58 AM on September 15, 2007
Aw, I was hoping that would be for attacks about one's reliance upon benzocaine-based desensitizing anal lubes.
posted by CKmtl at 7:58 AM on September 15, 2007
"What's a dickbag?"
Twenty bucks, same as in town.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:15 AM on September 15, 2007
Twenty bucks, same as in town.
posted by mr_crash_davis at 8:15 AM on September 15, 2007
Making the same joke comment that was made earlier in the thread: ad-redundum
OK, it's using a different definition, but isn't it too soon for that?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:53 AM on September 16, 2007
OK, it's using a different definition, but isn't it too soon for that?
posted by Kirth Gerson at 6:53 AM on September 16, 2007
Now I'm not sure I have the meaning of ad-lib right. Surely there's not a word for attacks on librarians?
posted by dg at 5:35 PM on September 16, 2007
posted by dg at 5:35 PM on September 16, 2007
Attacks made defensively from the dark place of dread where one awaits a shout-down doom for using a made-up noun form of a common adjective: ad ominum.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 9:29 AM on September 17, 2007
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 9:29 AM on September 17, 2007
Attacks made via youtube snippits of lefty polemic from a polished cable news proxy will be known as ad olbermann.
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:07 AM on September 17, 2007
posted by cortex (staff) at 11:07 AM on September 17, 2007
Attacks made by satirizing pharma culture and homophobia shall be... ad homocil.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 11:34 AM on September 17, 2007
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 11:34 AM on September 17, 2007
Attacks on a shrine to American media: ad Newseum.
posted by GrammarMoses at 1:02 PM on September 17, 2007
posted by GrammarMoses at 1:02 PM on September 17, 2007
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posted by Kwine at 9:52 PM on September 13, 2007