hopefully nipping this in the bud January 6, 2008 11:14 AM Subscribe

hey, bruce? I, and other folks, aren't too thrilled with what you're saying in the Elyse Sewell thread. Let's talk about you over here, and keep talking about her over there.

I said this in the thread, and I'll say it again: I agree with you on the power of pop culture, and the resultant desensitization towards significant social ills. However, this isn't the place to bring it up.

posted by heeeraldo to Etiquette/Policy at 11:14 AM (247 comments total) 2 users marked this as a favorite

Doesn't that thread belong in Ask Metafilter, anyway? It doesn't seem to belong in Metafilter, the way it is phrased.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:19 AM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

Doesn't that thread belong in Ask Metafilter, anyway? It doesn't seem to belong in Metafilter, the way it is phrased.

Huh? I don't think there are any phrasing restrictions on the blue. Maybe the user wanted to steer the discussion in a certain way (towards answering their question) but it's also an interesting story on it's own.
posted by delmoi at 11:22 AM on January 6, 2008

Heh, thanks for pointing out that last comment, as I had missed that. "Dumbshark"... was that supposed to be a zinger or something?
posted by the other side at 11:23 AM on January 6, 2008

I think it definitely belongs more in AskMe, phrased as it is without further explanatory links to help the frothing uninformed keep from looking like the angry windbags they are.

Or maybe that's *their* responsibility.

Dunno.

Still think it wasn't a well-considered FPP and ultimately undermines whatever good could have come from such a thing. Sorry, OP.

But, yeah, bruce is mostly just making himself look like an inhumane idiot. Well done!
posted by batmonkey at 11:24 AM on January 6, 2008

I don't think there are any phrasing restrictions on the blue

Sure there are. Posts get modded for that all the time. There's a Metatalk thread about that going on today.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 11:24 AM on January 6, 2008

I was just wishing that I could somehow pop in near the beginning of that thread and say, "Warning, Toxic Thread Ahead. You my want to steer clear". Alas, this is not possible for a non-admin. Why do people have to be this way, he asked plaintively and rhetorically and possibly naively?
posted by Hobgoblin at 11:26 AM on January 6, 2008

Seriously. The latest bruce post, in which he claims that everyone was defending thug culture (by pointing out that the wacky, mistranslation in her icon was *not* thug culture) reeks of a deliberate attempt to stir shit up.

And again, "dumbshark?" seriously?
posted by ®@ at 11:27 AM on January 6, 2008

Yay, I was hoping somebody could start a thread wherein I could call Bruce an asshole.

Bruce: You're an asshole.
posted by empath at 11:28 AM on January 6, 2008 [6 favorites]

Doesn't that thread belong in Ask Metafilter, anyway?

No. It's clear that onlyconnect wanted to make a post about this event but she added some notes to the [more inside] part probably to head off some obvious potential criticisms, i.e. "do you think you shoudl even be posting this?!"

It seems like when I see bruce commenting in threads -- as in when I notice "oh that's bruce" -- he's saying something pretty edgy about women/feminists/etc. I'd like to think he was just maybe taking the piss or otherwise being provocative, but it seems that I can't really tell the difference between that and just trolling/picking fights and other people can't either.

At this point, with this being in MeTa and his insults being pretty far upthread, I can't really remove his snarky digs at clevershark but I did remove a few basic "you're an ass" follow-up comments which I guess people can post in here if they're so inclined. Turning that thread, which I thougth was interesting and well-presented by onlyconnect -- into a "no fuck YOU" back and forth isn't super helpful and the almost willfully uninformed "maybe if she weren't like ___________ this wouldn't have happened" derail is pathetic and sadly a little predictable.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 11:29 AM on January 6, 2008 [3 favorites]

The poster should have left off the questions at the end. They are very GYOB and sound like an attempt at conversation starters. But that last bat of the more inside is the only AskMe part of the post, and everyone seems to be ignoring it, so I'm not sure why people would think it should go in AskMe.
posted by smackfu at 11:29 AM on January 6, 2008

Look, it's obvious to me, and apparently also to everyone who commented on this but bruce, that the "THUG LIFE" icon is a playful, pop culture curio and not an endorsement of thuggery. However, that's his interpretation, and he's entitled to it. You don't have to like it. I don't think it merits a MeTa thread.
posted by limon at 11:30 AM on January 6, 2008

That's hitting some YouTube comment levels of internet stupid, there.
posted by StopMakingSense at 11:30 AM on January 6, 2008 [4 favorites]

Ignoring bruce's antics there, you'll all be thrilled to know that I've seen a fight started with an attempt to bite someone's nose off.
posted by Abiezer at 11:33 AM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

I don't like people who argue without bothering to be informed, especially when they speak with the cloak of authority.

i will not agree, and in the larger arena, not just metathugger but all of society, my side is going to win.

So really, it's just about winning, not the discussion. Stirring up shit to win the argument.

~~Christ, get banned.~~ Sorry, this isn't Something Awful. What I meant to say was, "I think someone needs a timeout."
posted by secret about box at 11:38 AM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

Yeah, that Tycho Brahe hung out with thugs. He should have known better.
posted by maudlin at 11:38 AM on January 6, 2008

you know, the "oh, she's a model/reality show contestant/rock star's girlfriend..I could care less,' almost as offensive as bruce's. In a thread about wife beating, people still feel the need to show how cool they are. Sad.
posted by jonmc at 11:40 AM on January 6, 2008 [8 favorites]

I was thinking about the idea of a fight with a slip of a girl launching herself at a grown man who was clearly (at the very least) riled up, teeth first in attack mode, and I imagine a fantastic way of working out if she was attacking or defending would be whether she had all her teeth left.

If someone comes at you teeth first, I imagine most people's basic reaction would be to pop your fist into their face, taking a couple of ivories with it. If she got a bite mark in with no mouth damage, chances are, his arms and hands were already otherwise occupied - presumably holding her down...

But hey. I am no cop. I can't normally get past the middle of the second doughnut. Clearly the job is not for me.
posted by Brockles at 11:40 AM on January 6, 2008

(If she got a bite mark in with no mouth damage, chances are, his arms and hands were already otherwise occupied - presumably holding her down...)

It's possible that she came at him, he grabbed her, and she then bit him.
posted by delmoi at 11:45 AM on January 6, 2008

Brockles: What in the hell?
posted by CitrusFreak12 at 11:47 AM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

But hey. I am no cop. I can't normally get past the middle of the second doughnut. Clearly the job is not for me.

Wow, a cop and doughnut joke. One of the great humor innovators of our time, you are, a regular Richard Pryor.
posted by jonmc at 11:47 AM on January 6, 2008 [3 favorites]

I don't apologize for calling bruce an ass. He's a noxious, racist asshole and hope he never posts here again. I've never seen him contribute a single worthy thing to this website.

Everytime the issue of violence comes up, bruce is there to say - "You see? Rap music is responsible for this!" leaving off the implied - "and you know who's responsible for rap music?"
posted by Baby_Balrog at 11:48 AM on January 6, 2008 [3 favorites]

Not to defend bruce - but it appears to me a little bit of the problem is that he is using the term "thug" as a general label for someone who beats women (in this case), while others are hung up on a picture of Tupac or insert favorite-urban-rough-type-person here. Just an observation.
posted by Big_B at 11:49 AM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

Sorry if I over-directed the commenting with the follow up questions re legal ramifications of the blogging. Jessamyn explained me 100%. Thanks.
posted by onlyconnect at 11:51 AM on January 6, 2008

big, you could probably observe that if you weren't aware of his posting history.
posted by empath at 11:52 AM on January 6, 2008

Don't forget, Bruce has a "better ~~wine~~ whine collection than anyone here!"
posted by ericb at 11:53 AM on January 6, 2008

Dumbshark! LOLOL!!!

But seriously, is all of this furor really over one of those wacky Chinese translations? WTFBruce?
posted by roll truck roll at 11:53 AM on January 6, 2008

fun thug fact: Thuggee (or tuggee) (from Hindi thag ‘thief’, from Sanskrit sthaga ‘scoundrel’, from sthagati ‘to conceal’) was an Indian network of secret fraternities engaged in murdering and robbing travellers, operating from the 17th century (possibly as early as 13th century) to the 19th century. This is the origin of the term "thug", as many Indian words passed into common English during British Imperial rule of India.

so I guess we're all using it wrong.
posted by heeeraldo at 11:54 AM on January 6, 2008

Please. Bruce has a very specific kind of person in mind when he says, "thug."
posted by Baby_Balrog at 11:55 AM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

Metafilter: a passel of mostly anonymous internet fuckwits.
posted by ericb at 11:58 AM on January 6, 2008 [6 favorites]

Wow, a cop and doughnut joke.

I thought it was a total urban myth until I came to the US. When I lived in Atlanta (2006) I was actually gobsmacked that there was not a single time I drove past the Dunkin Donuts and there wasn't a cop car in the car park.

So the reality of the joke is pretty new to me. We don't have so many doughnut shops in the UK, see, for me to establish its credentials. Besides the overplaying of stereotypical jokes has always appealed to me. I made the joke cos it amused me. When I aim for you I'll be sure to raise the brow.
posted by Brockles at 11:59 AM on January 6, 2008

...thugs are now the vanguard that many of you wannabees are trying to emulate.

Oh my, oh my! Really? [I can't stop laughing].
posted by ericb at 11:59 AM on January 6, 2008

The Shins? I mean, what? The sequence of comments by bruce are one of the funniest things I've seen on here in a long time. So much old man antics! "Violence? Sounds like some of that THUGGERY LIFE I've hear about! That 6-Pack who had it tattooed on his whatsit killed somebody maybe one time! And his music sounds like strangled cats! The Shins are just the same! Probably want to KICK you in the shins! Also: the Mexicans!"
posted by wemayfreeze at 12:00 PM on January 6, 2008 [34 favorites]

do you think i write to please you,...flying fuck at a rolling doughnut....you can't handle the truth!

welcome to Bruce's Cliche Festival!

(ded, where exactly were you a judge, Dancing With The Stars?)
posted by jonmc at 12:00 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

ठग जान
posted by Meatbomb at 12:01 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

trying to drum up your clique to rail as well?

Sadly, that clique appears to be 'everyone but you'.
posted by Brockles at 12:02 PM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

I bet the Age of Ironic Teeshirts has been hell for our Brucie.

"Sexy Grandma? That girl can't be a day over 20! What the hell is wrong with today's society!"
posted by padraigin at 12:07 PM on January 6, 2008 [9 favorites]

And could you please capitalize a god damn letter occasionally?
posted by R. Mutt at 12:07 PM on January 6, 2008

flameout?
posted by Justinian at 12:08 PM on January 6, 2008

I bet the Age of Ironic Teeshirts has been hell for our Brucie.

well, it's been hell for me, too, but only because it's boring and annoying after awhile.
posted by jonmc at 12:08 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

I would just like it stated, for the record, that Bruce is from SOUTHERN COASTAL OREGON.

Up North. And West.

And not near me. Or the South.

Or the Southwest.

That is all.

[NOT OREGONIST]
posted by pineapple at 12:08 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

so when i notice an endorsement of thug life on the victim's blog and call it to your attention, and i suggest that the culture it represents may be more hazardous to women,

Right, but what we were all saying was that the victim's blog didn't endorse thug life at all. You seem incapable of understanding that.

The problem isn't that metafilter is defending "thug life" because it's hip, it's that you have no idea what's going on.
posted by delmoi at 12:09 PM on January 6, 2008 [12 favorites]

i write to please myself more than anything else, and i speak the truth as i know it.

Except the extent to which you know it is in this case so negligible as to produce hilarious results. Seriously, you have no frigging idea what you're talking about here. Although I have long argued that Oh Inverted World is way more thug than Chutes Too Narrow.

so when i notice an endorsement of thug life on the victim's blog and call it to your attention

Only in your confused mind is her icon an endorsement.
posted by ludwig_van at 12:12 PM on January 6, 2008 [4 favorites]

thank you, pineapple from dallas, texas, for drawing a distinction between your place and mine. i wouldn't trade.
posted by bruce at 12:12 PM on January 6, 2008

why would i care enough to research an obscure band?
posted by ludwig_van at 12:13 PM on January 6, 2008

so enlighten me, ludwig_van, why did she put "thug life" on her logo, if it was not, as you say, some kind of endorsement, aspiration or other positive reference?

see, if i had my own blog, it might be "gardening life" or "fishing life" or "cooking life", but it wouldn't be "thug life". you might be "music life". the author of that logo knew or should have known that it could be read as an endorsement, and is consequently at fault for any resulting misunderstanding.
posted by bruce at 12:18 PM on January 6, 2008

Why would a rational person, upon being informed of his incorrect assumptions, stand by his refusal to inform his opinions with research? That seems oddly neandertholic.

Bruce, you made mistake. It really is okay. Nobody hates you. Pretend we're in a pub instead of on the internet. Laugh it off and move on.
posted by roll truck roll at 12:19 PM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

Although I have long argued that Oh Inverted World is way more thug than Chutes Too Narrow.

No way. Chutes Too Narrow has "Fighting in a Sack" and "Pink Bullets" (although you could argue that the pinkness offsets the bullets), plus there's the reference in "Gone for Good" to spending "twelve long months on the lam." Violence and crime abound! Whereas Oh Inverted World has a song called "the Celibate Life," which is clearly not something that would interest your average thug. Chutes Too Narrow is definitely the Shins' gangsta album.
posted by craichead at 12:22 PM on January 6, 2008 [3 favorites]

to be properly feminist, you have to denounce the male

Aaaahahahaha.

All else is wank, but that was hilarious. A++++ would totally misdefine again.
posted by aihal at 12:23 PM on January 6, 2008 [11 favorites]

Wait - bruce thinks rapists should have their throats cut and be thrown down ravines by members of the public in one thread, and in another thread he thinks women bring violence upon themselves due to their choice of internet logos?

Man, bigotry is so confusing sometimes.
posted by game warden to the events rhino at 12:26 PM on January 6, 2008 [10 favorites]

game warden, i'm sorry to inform you that you're a liar too.
posted by bruce at 12:27 PM on January 6, 2008

so enlighten me, ludwig_van, why did she put "thug life" on her logo, if it was not, as you say, some kind of endorsement, aspiration or other positive reference?

It seems to me that this has been explained to you several times over. She's poking fun at a mistranslation -- it's a tongue-in-cheek ironic gesture, not a manifesto. Are you incredibly dense, or did you just step through a wormhole from a universe that hasn't yet invented irony?

the author of that logo knew or should have known that it could be read as an endorsement, and is consequently at fault for any resulting misunderstanding.

No, she's not. The fact that the only possible meaning of that icon you could conceive of was an endorsement of the thug ethos (whatever that means) is a failure of imagination on your part. That you're digging your heels in about it now only compounds the ridiculousness. But like I said, you're so far out at this point that it's quite entertaining, so don't let me stop you.
posted by ludwig_van at 12:28 PM on January 6, 2008

MOLA RAM. MOLA RAM. MOLA RAM.
posted by cog_nate at 12:28 PM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

I bet bruce would be surprised to find out that his "WORLD'S BEST GRANDPA" mug is actually not a unique, official award. Sorry, bruce. Those are mass produced as a gift item. Though I guess the mug manufacturers (possibly the same Chinese folks responsible for that "thug life" logo!) are to blame for your confusion, for not printing a small disclaimer at the bottom of the mug.
posted by sklero at 12:28 PM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

i'm surprised to see such a wellspring of defensive attitudes toward thugs and thug culture.

wait til you find out what we're going to put in your bed

(just the head - you don't get a whole pony from us)
posted by pyramid termite at 12:29 PM on January 6, 2008

No way. Chutes Too Narrow has "Fighting in a Sack" and "Pink Bullets" (although you could argue that the pinkness offsets the bullets), plus there's the reference in "Gone for Good" to spending "twelve long months on the lam."

Yeah, but Pink Bullets has lyrics about kites and shit, and in Gone for Good it took him all of a year to put the poison pill to her ear. Wuss. But in Caring is Creepy Mercer sings "Hail to your dark skin /
Hiding the fact you're dead again." That's, like, straight out of Tupac!
posted by ludwig_van at 12:32 PM on January 6, 2008

so enlighten me, ludwig_van, why did she put "thug life" on her logo

Most people on live journal use icons that they think are funny. The image itself is funny, and the humor is derived from the idea that "Thug Life" is something that people would talk about in China. And it's probably something she saw and photographed herself, making it unique to her (At least in the anglosphere).

I don't think she was intending to make any kind of statement at all, other then that she found the image funny.
posted by delmoi at 12:34 PM on January 6, 2008

Ok. Bruce, I'm gonna explain this one last time.

She likes mistranslations and items that seem completely culturally foreign to either her white-bread American experience or her experience of Hong Kong, i.e. when cultural items are important and mashed into the local culture, to produce unexpectedly hilarious results... Ahem... and more! Oh, yes, there's even more, if you bothered to look through any given entry, you'd see exactly what she meant by 'thug life:' i.e., why the hell is there Chinese references to a phrase commonly associated with black American hip-hop?

If you look at the rest of her damn icons, you'll see "Germs! Bye!Bye!", "OH!", "punk rock," "no posting," and some characters with an apparent translation of "is it boring?!" I doubt she endorses "no posting," "Germs Bye!Bye!," (which I assume to be a product), or yelling "OH" all the time.
posted by flibbertigibbet at 12:34 PM on January 6, 2008 [4 favorites]

I think I'm gonna get "Anonymous Internet Fuckwit" tattooed in Gothic script across my abdomen.
posted by BitterOldPunk at 12:34 PM on January 6, 2008 [11 favorites]

As I mentioned in the thread, the "logo" looks like a blown up page of Chinese text where the author has used the words "thug life" in the original presumably because a translation would miss some of the meaning. Let's not be knocking the author (though you can't see enough round it for much context). I still reckon she just found it incongruous and amusing.
posted by Abiezer at 12:35 PM on January 6, 2008

Basically: those who draw inferences without context, when the context is available, can be blamed for their own misunderstanding.

We don't hate you. We just wish you'd consider paths that do not include blazing ahead with whatever first pops into your head, and sticking to that first conception.
posted by flibbertigibbet at 12:36 PM on January 6, 2008

err. conception of the truth, I should say.
posted by flibbertigibbet at 12:40 PM on January 6, 2008

ok ludwig_van, maybe my imagination just failed me, i dunno. maybe if the meaning of the asian characters is taken into account, it could actually be a criticism of thug life. i don't know any asian languages and their letters just look like squiggles to me, so in a logo, which is supposed to represent an object, the two english words will define it for me. i'm sorry i'm not as multilingual as all you folks (some russian, restaurant menu spanish) and i'm aware those squiggles are becoming ever more important what with china coming up in the world, but i'll be dead before i ever have to learn chinese, unlike some of you. i was attacked by some liars today, and i make no apology for defending myself.
posted by bruce at 12:41 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

hey, heeeraldo? do you think i write to please you, or garner popularity, or campaign for some kind of office? do you think i give a flying fuck at a rolling doughnut whether you and a passel of mostly anonymous internet fuckwits are "thrilled" at my words? do you think my perceptions and accounts can be altered by some kind of communist chinese-style community shaming? pull your head out of the toilet, you thug, and listen to this:
no, no, no, no, and no. Your perceptions and accounts were spurring their own discussion, instead of discussion of the link, and I started this thread in an attempt to help nudge discussion on the thread away from you and back onto the link.

i write to please myself more than anything else, and i speak the truth as i know it. the act of committing something to a record can produce satisfaction even if very few people ever read it.
This is a community, to my understanding; a place where things are discussed, shared and exchanged, not broadcast or intended as some sort of commitment to a record.

even if they don't like it. even if their underpants got so knotted they had to resort to a pathetic, juvenile callout like this. can you do no better than to rail at me like a whimpering schoolboy from across a playground, trying to drum up your clique to rail as well?
FWIW, my boxers are free of entanglement. I didn't see the need for grandiosity or inflammation in the wording of the callout because I figured there was enough drama going on... as you have so capably provided.
Additionally, I don't have a clique, and I'd addressed you in the thread already, and I'm doing it again, so the across the schoolyard claim doesn't take.

Here's the unique problem with the original fpp, it caused a wedge. on the one hand, there's a strong feminist ethos here. [snip re: support, and qualifiers of "cool"]
and to be properly cool, hip or whatever the new word is these days, you cannot under any circumstances denounce thugs. thugs are now the vanguard that many of you wannabees are trying to emulate.

see, now here's the beginning of where we disagree, while, oddly enough, agreeing. Thugs are denouncable, detestable, de-whatever. I don't like them, I am actively engaged in alerting a nephew of mine to the realities of the lifestyle he seems to aspire to, and, hell, I used to run a student group dealing with it, and other issues of oppression.

so when i notice an endorsement of thug life on the victim's blog and call it to your attention,
except, it's not. It's intended to point out the ridiculous pervasiveness of the culture we both detest, and also to highlight her stranger-in-a-strange-land musings. Mr Bunnsy pointed that out, and you seem to have quite neatly ignored it.

and i suggest that the culture it represents may be more hazardous to women, making it more likely they will be exposed to violence, it puts you cool people in a quandary, because it would be uncool to acknowledge the truth (you can't handle the truth!)
you're right that the culture it represents raises the likelihood of people being affected by violence. The fact remains that it doesn't apply to the situation at hand, because, as has been pointed out to you, The Shins aren't that kind of band.

so that leaves few remaining options. one of those options is to mischaracterize my statements to the effect that i suggested that the woman had "invited" or "deserved" it. that, of course, is the dishonest option. every single one of you who elected that option is a liar, and i'm going back to that thread now and make a note of them and call them liars to their faces.
This is the issue at hand. You're putting words in everyone else's mouths while refusing to admit that you made a mistake, and the use of inflammatory language and personal attacks isn't helping anyone around to see your point of view. This isn't about thugs, or the ways you seem to think we disagree when we don't, it's about your behaviour and approach to the other people in the community.
posted by heeeraldo at 12:43 PM on January 6, 2008 [4 favorites]

Oh man, he's not a troll — I think this is actually him. He's just crotchety, old, and extremely unclever.

Can he get a timeout for being so aggressively stupid?
posted by blasdelf at 12:49 PM on January 6, 2008 [3 favorites]

you're putting words in everyone else's mouths...

at least i didn't falsely assert that they thought the woman had invited or deserved the attack. that would be wrong and a lie, right?
posted by bruce at 12:51 PM on January 6, 2008

Won't everybody just GET OFF HIS GODDAMNED LAWN????
posted by nevercalm at 12:51 PM on January 6, 2008 [4 favorites]

Bruce, I've never seen someone so uninformed and clueless be so adamant about how much right he is. You, sir, have attained a new level of wankery. Also, when you're that wrong about the obvious and you're a total dick about it, claiming that you're getting railroaded by a phantom feminist menace is weak sauce.

Also, please let us know what you mean by "thug" and "thug life." I have the feeling it's a euphemism for something else and I doubt it's Lucky Luciano or Sonny Corleone.
posted by sneakin at 12:52 PM on January 6, 2008

So there's this politician, right? And he's at a press conference about the PATRIOT Act and his recent attempt to change it, and a reporter asks him, "Sir, is it true that you kicked a puppy when you were 14?" The other reporters look around and wonder where the heck that came from.

"Well, yes I did, but only as it had already gotten one of my testicles, and I had a rather vested interest in keeping the other. It was terrible and I'd never sugg--"

The reporter starts yelling "PUPPY KICKER, PUPPY KICKER, HE'S ENDORSING THE KICKING OF PUPPIES." Completely ignoring the context.

The other reporters are trying to quiet this reporter down, as, heck, he's disturbing the entire press conference, they can't get anything done if he's yelling 'puppy kicker' over top of their questions about the PATRIOT Act and their discussions with the politician. So they take him to another room, and he just starts cussing them out. It's not a good situation. It could do for less cussing and moral outrage and more peaceable discussion, as heeeraldo says.

Just saying.

(and elysesewell didn't even kick any puppies, just found 'thug life' funny).

(I AM A PUPPY KICKER.)

(no, not really.)

*gives bruce a hug, as Everybody Needs One (TM)*
posted by flibbertigibbet at 12:57 PM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

What a fucking train wreck. Thanks for moving it into MeTa, heeeraldo.

bruce writes "and to be properly cool, hip or whatever the new word is these days, you cannot under any circumstances denounce thugs. thugs are now the vanguard that many of you wannabees are trying to emulate. "

Jesus, this is bizarre.
posted by mr_roboto at 12:58 PM on January 6, 2008

bruce, are you really that limited in your understanding of internet banter? Really?

I quote from the blog itself: "certain foibles of translation are inherently funny and justify my decision to post them".

She's a very, very clever writer. There is no possible way that anyone familiar with the tone of her blog could misconstrue her icon as anything other than multiply ironic.

I'm really saddened by her post regarding the assault. But, as she stated, she didn't want to lie about it. On the other hand, the image of The Shins as gangsta rappers have given me my best laugh so far today.
posted by jokeefe at 12:58 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

sneakin, to me a thug is a violent criminal who preys on those weaker than him. mafia people can certainly be thugs, as i mentioned earlier in connection with their reputed love of opera. is there some kind of special thug i'm not aware of? precisely what euphemism for something else are you talking about?
posted by bruce at 1:01 PM on January 6, 2008

She has a similar icon that has the words "punk rock" placed in Chinese text, as well. I wonder what conclusions bruce might have drawn from that?
posted by jokeefe at 1:02 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

mafia people can certainly be thugs, as i mentioned earlier in connection with their reputed love of opera

Wagner, man. He was the biggest thug OF ALL.

This is amusing, but bruce, please just stop now. Unless you want to us to light the languagehat beacon and settle in for a flameout/banning.
posted by jokeefe at 1:03 PM on January 6, 2008

Clearly both the internet and Mefi need an upper age limit.

Bruce, in giving your comments here and elsewhere just a cursory look, are you sure you belong here? Or are you just here as a troll looking to kick us whippersnappers into shape? I'm being truly serious. Because coming to a website just to shit all over it really is interesting, in terms of what it says of someone as a person.

If you want, I'll refund your $5 personally. It'll be worth it.
posted by nevercalm at 1:04 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

bruce, are you aware of "thug life" as a motif? "[Tupac] declared that the dictionary definition of a 'thug' as being a rogue or criminal was not how he used the term, but rather he meant someone who came from oppressive or squalid background and little opportunity but still made a life for themselves and were proud"

Not that it has any bearing whatsoever on the situation, but there are specific connotations of the phrase you don't seem to be aware of.
posted by 0xFCAF at 1:07 PM on January 6, 2008

How do I thugged life?
posted by sklero at 1:08 PM on January 6, 2008 [6 favorites]

Clearly both the internet and Mefi need an upper age limit.

I would like to note that denseness knows no age restriction. *is closing in rather too quickly on 50 herself*

bruce just seems very unfamiliar with the kind of language that is spoken over wide parts of the web, including Metafilter. That's fine. But he's not willing to listen, or to learn the terms of this discourse, which is a problem.
posted by jokeefe at 1:10 PM on January 6, 2008

jokeefe, i'm limited in my understanding of a lot of things, but i have enough understanding of other things to stay out of jail and off the welfare rolls. i wouldn't know the shins from the fins. if you want to "light the languagehat beacon and settle in for a flameout/banning, you go right ahead. i'm not afraid of languagehat. as i understand it, a flameout is when somebody delivers an acrimonious valediction and goes away for good. don't hold your breath waiting for me to do that. it's the admins' choice whether or not to ban me and i will respect whatever decision they make.
posted by bruce at 1:13 PM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

Ни уха ни рыла—ни черта не понимаешь!
posted by languagehat at 1:14 PM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

Turning that thread, which I thougth was interesting and well-presented by onlyconnect -- into a "no fuck YOU" back and forth...

A post about domestic violence that that begins with "Frankly I'm not even sure I should be posting this" and links to the livejournal of a reality TV star devolves into name calling? No way.
posted by euphorb at 1:27 PM on January 6, 2008

bruce - I'm going to try to explain this in a non-confrontational manner, as I got that you were not attempting to say that she got what she deserved, but rather to point out what you saw as a contradiction in cultural mores:

1) Thug Life was one of many examples of found weird language translations on her blog. It really is a huge stretch to stubbornly insist on interpreting that as an "endorsement" of any specific phrase included.

2) This would be akin to suggesting that liberal blogs displaying "Bush-isms," which are nothing but direct quotes of George Bush saying something stupid, actually endorse those words.

3) This is easily reinforced by the fact that her choice of boyfriend - a musician in one of the wimpiest whitebread bands since the Carpenters [NOT SHINNIST!!!] - is hardly indicative of someone courting the thug life.

4) Even a quick read of her writing would easily have erased any lingering doubts.

5) Your refusal to allow that you might have misinterpreted, that you're maybe too out of touch to recognize irony in this case, yet don't think you have any burden to do enough research to prove this to even yourself, let alone to persuade others, does not serve to make the point you thought worth making.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 1:27 PM on January 6, 2008 [4 favorites]

I can kind of empathize with bruce here, because I've been in situations where everyone was insisting I was wrong, and I was just so highly annoyed that I kept trying to explain what I meant. It was obvious that there was something fundamental that was missing in our communications, and I really wanted them to understand what I was saying, so I kept trying, but my increasing annoyance was making it harder and harder. bruce doesn't seem like he's making much effort to understand what people are telling him, but the tone of his comments reminds me of how I felt in such a situation.

bruce, do you care to understand what's going on here, or are you just annoyed enough to keep replying to people who are saying things about you?
posted by agropyron at 1:28 PM on January 6, 2008

For goodness sake, bruce, don't you have anyone who can tell you what a fool you're making out of yourself here? Please! You're making me just cringe.
posted by jamjam at 1:30 PM on January 6, 2008

Damn, it's threads like this where I miss my bro Rakim!
posted by ericb at 1:33 PM on January 6, 2008 [5 favorites]

"i'm limited in my understanding of a lot of things, but i have enough understanding of other things to stay out of jail and off the welfare rolls."

Um, what?

Sorry if I missed it somewhere, but has Elyse or the Shins guy been on welfare? Jail, obviously, but welfare? What?

Everyone needs a thug, amirite?
posted by rtha at 1:34 PM on January 6, 2008

Everyone needs a thug.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 1:37 PM on January 6, 2008 [8 favorites]

Consistent failure to use the shift key appropriately (or indeed, ever in bruce's case) ought to be reason enough for a time out. [NOT BAUHAUSIST!!]
posted by roofus at 1:37 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

Oooooh rtha! You are so lucky I'm not a thug, or I'd thug you up, good!
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 1:37 PM on January 6, 2008

Goddamn, bruce, just admit that you don't know anything about The Shins and move on. It's easy--I don't know anything about The Shins or ANTM either, and I don't particularly want to learn. If other people enjoy these things, or take beauty or pleasure or enlightenment from them, I think that's great. But they're not really my tastes, and I don't really have anything worthwhile to say about them, and so I stay out of those kinds of discussions. Unless you're really enjoying this trainwreck, maybe give it a try sometime.

(As long as you're admitting things, I think there might be an 800-pound gorilla in the room (welfare rolls?), but I try to pick my battles.)

Heaven, I need a hug. Isn't anybody out there willing to embrace a thug?
posted by box at 1:40 PM on January 6, 2008

languagehat's telling me in russian i don't understand. i've always wondered how to type cyrillic characters, there's some kind of a keymapping program in the system tools or accessories to do that, but i've been unable to find it so far. that's something i'm gonna figure out how to do this afternoon.
posted by bruce at 1:41 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

Look, blaming all this on someone's age makes it bad for other old people. Can't you just blame it on Bruce? It'd be like saying, see, proof men shouldn't be allowed to use the internet.
posted by b33j at 1:42 PM on January 6, 2008

languagehat's telling me in russian i don't understand.

In Soviet Russia, jokes don't get --

oh, forget it
posted by kittens for breakfast at 1:43 PM on January 6, 2008 [5 favorites]

Hey bruce, the guy from Shins isn't black, if that helps.
posted by nicolas léonard sadi carnot at 1:44 PM on January 6, 2008

‮‮Well then, this out to blow your freaking mind right out of your fucking skull.‭
posted by loquacious at 1:47 PM on January 6, 2008 [5 favorites]

Oooooh rtha! You are so lucky I'm not a thug, or I'd thug you up, good!

Dude, it's "I'd thug you up, yo!"
*hugs Alvy*
posted by rtha at 1:47 PM on January 6, 2008

For goodness sake, bruce, don't you have anyone who can tell you what a fool you're making out of yourself here?

I don't think he cares. He justs likes the attention. It's been borne out in many other threads.
posted by ericb at 1:52 PM on January 6, 2008

я нашел карту!
posted by bruce at 1:56 PM on January 6, 2008

You know what I hate? When hotmail hacks into my thug life settings and NO ONE WILL BELIEVE ME.

Meanwhile, I think I'll adopt an adorable chihuahua puppy and name it Gangsta so as to promote drive-by shootings in my neighborhood.
posted by FelliniBlank at 2:00 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

is that a race card you're trying to play there mister carnot? you should stick to what you know, engines and refrigerators.
posted by bruce at 2:00 PM on January 6, 2008

Seconding (thirding? nthing?) the "If it's not okay to draw illicit conclusions regarding thuggism and violence (even false perceived thuggism) then it's not okay to draw what sounds like awfully ageist conclusions because bruce self-identifies as retired" sentiment.

The fact he self-identified as a lawyer and judge, however...

Как сказать "shout out" на русский?
posted by abulafa at 2:08 PM on January 6, 2008

Dear Metafilter, when I get old and don't know what the hell I'm talking about anymore please take me out back an shoot me. Thank you in advance, love nola.
posted by nola at 2:11 PM on January 6, 2008

race card

bruce, you just used the words "race" and "card" next to each other. The only possible conclusion to draw from that is that you endorse using the issue of race to gain the advantage in a situation. Maybe if you weren't such a racist, always playing race cards, people wouldn't be coming down so hard on you. Think about that one.
posted by ludwig_van at 2:11 PM on January 6, 2008 [3 favorites]

It's curious to me that some of you can claim to appreciate Ms. Sewell's purportedly ironic writing and still think bruce is being entirely serious with his "dumbshark" comment.

I personally think it's hilarious that bruce can repeatedly evoke such outrage with the most trivial comments, and I suspect that he finds it amusing too. I could almost understand the frenzy if he were advancing some crushingly articulate assault on people's most deeply cherished beliefs, but he's not. He doesn't even capitalize his posts.

That's what makes it so funny. He can press everyone's buttons with such careless ease, and no matter how many times he does it, people never, ever catch on. Even when they claim to catch on, they're still frothing in the Meta threads.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 2:14 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

"shout out" would be кричать/крикнуть iirc.
posted by bruce at 2:16 PM on January 6, 2008

god i hate lawyers.

[not lawyerist]
posted by empath at 2:17 PM on January 6, 2008

Everyone needs a thug.
posted by Astro Zombie at 2:21 PM on January 6, 2008

Even when they claim to catch on, they're still frothing in the Meta threads.

I dunno; either he's serious and not worth wasting time on, or he's taking the piss in the most lazy way possible and not worth wasting time on.
I just came here to make a thug pun.

*Hugs rtha*
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 2:23 PM on January 6, 2008

"Tex" if you don't know already MeFi tends to crack down on people who can't back up what they have to say. I doubt you're related to anyone here, so it's not like family Christmas, where you have to listen relatives say stupid shit and just bit your tongue to keep from upsetting your mom's side of the family.
posted by nola at 2:23 PM on January 6, 2008

languagehat's telling me in russian i don't understand. i've always wondered how to type cyrillic characters

I see you found a way to post Cyrillic (молодец!), but you may find this more convenient (it's the one I use). You just type in English letters and presto, Cyrillic appears in the box; then cut-'n'-paste. (Double letters like sh, ch, ya get automatically turned into ш,ч,я; a cute shortcut is w for щ.)

Clearly both the internet and Mefi need an upper age limit.

Knock off the ageism, you young whippersnappers.
posted by languagehat at 2:23 PM on January 6, 2008 [3 favorites]

bite*
posted by nola at 2:23 PM on January 6, 2008

ludwig_van, you can call me a racist if you want, i don't care. as far as "people coming down so hard" on me, i don't let the frothings of specters on my monitor get me down, and you're by no means the brightest specter i've seen this morning.
posted by bruce at 2:24 PM on January 6, 2008

Sorry oldskool, not directed at you.
posted by nola at 2:25 PM on January 6, 2008

ludwig_van, you can call me a racist if you want, i don't care.

FACEPALM
posted by ludwig_van at 2:27 PM on January 6, 2008

Is there a clinical term for someone who is completely impervious to irony? I'm starting to feel sorry for the dude. I can't imagine how someone like that gets through the day.
posted by ludwig_van at 2:30 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

"Tex" if you don't know already MeFi tends to crack down on people who can't back up what they have to say.

Now that's funny. I was trying to come up with my own egregious and thus comedic misstatement about Metafilter, but I can't top that.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 2:32 PM on January 6, 2008

Metafilter: top that
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:33 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

I was going to do a sendup with jessamental, boretex, daftowie, laming florence henderson, languagecrap, heeraldumb, lietem, jonmpp.. but that would be gilding one hell of a lily.

Bruce, I wish upon you a renewal that will wash the foolishness from your brain and reveal to you a fresh, invigorated world. You asswipe.
posted by fleacircus at 2:34 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

Knock off the ageism, you young whippersnappers.

I agree with languagehat. These "hey grampa" comments are just as facile as bruce's logic.
posted by applemeat at 2:35 PM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

thank you languagehat, now i can inflict really bad russian on people. я много забыл, что я учил.
posted by bruce at 2:36 PM on January 6, 2008

I'm a grampa. Doesn't make me... what's that word?
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:37 PM on January 6, 2008

These "hey grampa" comments are just as facile as bruce's logic.

I don't know. Old people really do suffer from dementia and outmoded thinking.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 2:37 PM on January 6, 2008

Yes, and young people really do suffer from diaper rash. Keep pushing those buttons, "Tex." You'll find the laugh track one of these days.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:43 PM on January 6, 2008

The only thing worse than an old person is a touchy old person.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 2:45 PM on January 6, 2008

Show me on the doll where the old person touched you, "Tex."
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:47 PM on January 6, 2008 [13 favorites]

So... the fact that not one of the many, many comments here holds any semblance or suggestion of support or agreement still tells you nothing, Bruce?

Surely that means you are either pulling everyone's chains (as has been suggested) or you are incredibly and spectacularly dense and misguided in your vigorous defense? Maybe there's a third option involving 'The rest of the world is wrong and Bruce is right' that you can tell me about that maybe I just haven't considered.

(insert obligatory "Everyone needs a thug" comment as so many before me have done. I wouldn't want to stand out from the crowd, now).
posted by Brockles at 2:49 PM on January 6, 2008

Show me on the doll where the old person touched you, "Tex."

Sexual molestation is incredibly offensive, and I'm calling you out right now.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 2:51 PM on January 6, 2008

Calling you out for THE FUNNY!!!
posted by Justinian at 2:55 PM on January 6, 2008

I don't know. Old people really do suffer from dementia and outmoded thinking.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 5:37 PM on January 6 [+] [!

Truly, a pearl of wisdom from an--the--expert in the field.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 2:56 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

"Calling me out" is an implied threat. You should be banned for that.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 2:56 PM on January 6, 2008

Apologize now to me, to Metafilter, and to all victims of sexual molestation past, present, or future, or I'll blacklist you.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 2:58 PM on January 6, 2008

Tex, I'm thinking that IRFH probably doesn't give a wet fart if you blacklist him.
posted by dirtynumbangelboy at 3:00 PM on January 6, 2008

My mother was killed by a blacklist YOU BASTARD!!!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:03 PM on January 6, 2008

Tex, I'm thinking that IRFH probably doesn't give a wet fart if you blacklist him.

You're blacklisted, dirty bagel boy. You can file an appeal via MeMail within 60 days to contest your blacklisting.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 3:04 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

Man, I really thought we left this kind of crackpottery behind with USENET... Haven't had such a good laugh since Mike Corley or Ian Gomeche (who, admittedly, was more about mailing lists...) Thanks bruce!
posted by benzo8 at 3:04 PM on January 6, 2008

Some of us seem to need the sort of hug only a straitjacket can give.
posted by jamjam at 3:10 PM on January 6, 2008 [8 favorites]

I'm hugging myself right now.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:11 PM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

engines and refrigerators

This will be the name of the wimpy, emo, white-bread band that I will construct from young boys and unleash upon the world as a kind of cackling indie-rock Svengaliette. Mark my words-- look for them in Pitchfork later on this year.
posted by jokeefe at 3:17 PM on January 6, 2008 [4 favorites]

I'm hugging myself right now.

Damn decrepit pervert.
posted by "Tex" Connor and the Wily Roundup Boys at 3:19 PM on January 6, 2008

Blacklist me as well, Tex.

My friends are gonna be there, too....
posted by jonmc at 3:23 PM on January 6, 2008

K. So I'm trying to soak up this thread. Bruce, you were worried about anyone endorsing 'thug life.' The girl ironically put up an icon with those two words and you go off on a tangent. I gave you the benefit of the doubt because hey, people can interpret things differently I suppose.

But this?

i don't know any asian languages and their letters just look like squiggles to me, so in a logo, which is supposed to represent an object, the two english words will define it for me.

This one really threw me. You don't know their language so it's squiggles? Sounds like when I hear (usually older, white) people say "I wish they'd quit talkin that gibberish" when they hear Spanish/Chinese/any other non-white people conversing...

...i'm aware those squiggles are becoming ever more important what with china coming up in the world, but i'll be dead before i ever have to learn Chinese, unlike some of you.

Now this part. So, dang those Asian folks, I'm sure glad I'll be dead before they take over the world and make us all write in those dang squiggles! I read that you write for yourself and you don't care if you make anyone else happy etc etc but I wonder...Do you intend to come off as a middle aged, old school racist? I hope your writing is pleasing you cuz it is looks pretty ugly on my side.
posted by CwgrlUp at 3:24 PM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

I bet I'll be dead before I learn Chinese too. And Klingon.

Esperanto, though. That I might learn.
posted by Astro Zombie at 3:28 PM on January 6, 2008

This will be the name of the wimpy, emo, white-bread band that I will construct from young boys and unleash upon the world as a kind of cackling indie-rock Svengaliette. Mark my words-- look for them in Pitchfork later on this year.

Of course, you realize this means war.
posted by jonmc at 3:29 PM on January 6, 2008

Damn decrepit pervert.

I'm gonna have this made into a Chinese logo and put it at the top of my blog.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:31 PM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

Wait a tick. Just whose flameout thread is this?
posted by chimaera at 3:36 PM on January 6, 2008

It was a pretty reasonable mistake to misinterpret the icon as an endorsement of thuggery. Upon learning the truth, the only reasonable followup is to admit the mistake. Going for the gold would be to try learning from the mistake.

We'll see how that goes.
posted by NortonDC at 3:37 PM on January 6, 2008

Incubus is a folk tale about a succubus who tires of seducing and destroying weak and sick men, and so, instead, decides to go after a good and honorable man, played by Captain Kirk. What she doesn't count on is that she might fall in love with him.

The film is shot and acted in the manner of Ingmar Bergman's films, and was filmed in Esperanto because its director, Leslie Stevens, felt it would add an air of unreality and foreignness to a film that was not meant to be a contemporary tale, but instead an extended and rather meditative parable.
posted by Astro Zombie at 3:44 PM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

Just a picture. Not an endorsement.
posted by pupdog at 3:44 PM on January 6, 2008 [3 favorites]

MeFi tends to crack down on people who can't back up what they have to say.

I just wish the crack-downers could back up what they were saying, too.
posted by Cool Papa Bell at 3:45 PM on January 6, 2008

Crack-downers, you'd better beware when I find you creeping round my back stair.
posted by Astro Zombie at 3:48 PM on January 6, 2008 [3 favorites]

In proper concentrations, crack and downers cancel each other out. Or so I've heard.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 3:51 PM on January 6, 2008

then it's not okay to draw what sounds like awfully ageist conclusions because bruce self-identifies as retired" sentiment.

BTW -- bruce self-identifies as a a 52 year old man "libertarian retard." Hardly qualifies him as an "old-fart" in my mind. A wacko? Yep.
posted by ericb at 3:52 PM on January 6, 2008

cwgrlup, an anonymous professional pug wrangler (surely this is the epitome of common rabble) has just raised the race canard again, so here goes:

yes, asian writing looks like squiggles to me because i've never studied an asian language, you stupid bint. it by no means derogates the language or the people who use it to confess unfamiliarity with its letters. i've looked at those squiggles curiously all my life to try to find patterns that would help reveal the meaning, but apparently this is accessible only through formal study. there is one squiggle which is an exception:

a few weeks back on metafilter there was an fpp about amusing english translations in chinese grocery stores. i eagerly compared the squiggles to find the one i wanted, the one that meant "fuck". it looks like a simple "t" with another horizontal bar through it, and i felt a sense of accomplishment that i had finally begun to learn chinese. now all i need to learn is the squiggle for "you" before i can properly respond to your comment with my exact sentiments - in chinese!
posted by bruce at 4:02 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

This will brucewell.
posted by Astro Zombie at 4:09 PM on January 6, 2008 [3 favorites]

I knew there was something about those Orthodox crosses that seemed a little off to me.
posted by Alvy Ampersand at 4:12 PM on January 6, 2008 [3 favorites]

So I'll admit to skimming a bit of this, but let me see if I can understand this.

1) Bruce made several statements that were deeply off target due to lack of context.
2) When asked about this, Bruce stated that he didn't much care for context.

162 comments later you people are *still* arguing with him? WTF? Is this feed the trolls day on MeTa?
posted by tkolar at 4:18 PM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

True, but its so very hard to resist the possibility of watching brucie immolate himself in a spectacular flameout strewn with increasingly obscure derogatory British slang.
posted by googly at 4:23 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

Is there a clinical term for someone who is completely impervious to irony?

I don't know but this:

is that a race card you're trying to play there mister carnot? you should stick to what you know, engines and refrigerators.

sounds like it was written by the duclod man
posted by jtron at 4:23 PM on January 6, 2008

Mistranslations can be pretty funny. I remember reading about the early trials of Babelfish trying to translate the phrase, "out of sight, out of mind" from English to Chinese. It was translated as "blind idiot."
posted by post punk at 4:24 PM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

as far as "people coming down so hard" on me, i don't let the frothings of specters on my monitor get me down, and you're by no means the brightest specter i've seen this morning.

You know what? bruce is sounding better and better to me as this thread goes on. Whereas the rest of you are starting to get on my nerves.
posted by ottereroticist at 4:32 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

a few weeks back on metafilter there was an fpp about amusing english translations in chinese grocery stores

holy fuck. okay, stay with me now -- those amusing translations? exactly the same sort of thing sewell's "thug life" image on her livejournal page is highlighting. amusing. fucking. english. translations. from. chinese.

are you still going to pretend you don't get it?
posted by Hat Maui at 4:37 PM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

languagehat, отлично сайте- такая находка! Makes this whole callout worthwhile, imo.
posted by small_ruminant at 4:37 PM on January 6, 2008

Well, this got better near the end. I like when that happens.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:38 PM on January 6, 2008

Oh my god! It's finally happened! I've wanted to say something about what an idiot bruce is for quite some time, and now someone has made a place for me! Hurrah!

Fuck you bruce! You make OK comments sometimes but you are usually an asshole who seems to think being an old retired lawyer and judge and whatever else the fuck you are or have been makes you a better person than the rest of us! And it really, really doesn't. I don't know if you are a racist but I do know that you have said some dumb, ignorant fucking things. And are an asshole a lot of the time. So fuck you! Please go away and share your opinion in a more appropriate venue for someone who does not understand the young people or irony or a hell of a lot of other things- the letters section of your local newspaper. I know you'd fit in damn well in my local paper- and I live in Texas!

Whew, I feel better. Now I can go back to ignoring bruce.
posted by MadamM at 4:53 PM on January 6, 2008 [7 favorites]

I spoke too soon.
posted by stavrosthewonderchicken at 4:55 PM on January 6, 2008

You jinxed it, Stav.
posted by Astro Zombie at 4:58 PM on January 6, 2008

Obscure derogatory british slang indeed. That's ok, resort to name calling and fuck you's. You bitched earlier about schoolyard antics and you're obviously no better than that either. WASP on then.
posted by CwgrlUp at 5:00 PM on January 6, 2008

Bruce: 操你的狗屁, asswipe.
posted by casarkos at 5:03 PM on January 6, 2008

I'm not sure why we're singling out bruce's bizarre "thug" fixation here, when about 20 percent of the comments on that thread were about how the abuse was probably fabricated to create "drama" or shouldn't be discussed at all because the alleged victim was on a silly reality show and is thus unworthy of our attention.
posted by transona5 at 5:03 PM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

You know what? bruce is sounding better and better to me as this thread goes on. Whereas the rest of you are starting to get on my nerves.

Yeah, seriously. The guy is crotchety and holds opinions others of you have a problem with and doesn't react well to being piled on. On the other hand, he has a sense of humor and knows some Russian. Many of the rest of you have unimpeachable credentials as nonracists and young, hip consumers who are down with the irony and the geek memes; on the other hand, you're way, way too pleased with yourselves and show an unseemly eagerness to pile on, plus I don't think you know Russian.

I think this thread has run it's course; we've all learned lessons and/or how to make comments in Cyrillic, and there's a stale smell of beerpiss gathering in the corners. Can we close this?
posted by languagehat at 5:05 PM on January 6, 2008 [7 favorites]

plus I don't think you know Russian

I made borscht for dinner, though. Doesn't that count for something?
posted by small_ruminant at 5:15 PM on January 6, 2008

is madamm's comment what you call "emo"?
posted by bruce at 5:24 PM on January 6, 2008

Right, languagehat. In the grand scheme of things, blaming victims of domestic violence is really a small crime compared to being a self-satisfied hipster.

Bruce probably just isn't good at admitting he made a mistake, and it's not a crime to miss hipster irony. He may not have realized the racial associations with "thug life," although honestly, I'd be surprised. But I'm not going to pretend that I think it's ok to imply that a woman who has recently been beaten by her long-time boyfriend is responsible for the abuse because she somehow embraced thug culture. The point here is not really that Elyse Sewell has clearly not embraced "thug culture." It's that people shouldn't seize upon the pop culture consumption habits of crime victims in order to prove that the victims are responsible for what happened to them.
posted by craichead at 5:27 PM on January 6, 2008 [3 favorites]

and isn't madamm hawt?
posted by bruce at 5:27 PM on January 6, 2008

is madamm's comment what you call "emo"?

Not even close. Allow me to translate it into emo for you:

Bruce's comment made my mascara run.
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 5:29 PM on January 6, 2008

I made borscht for dinner, though. Doesn't that count for something?

That depends. Was it hot or cold? Did it include beans? Did you use beets?
posted by languagehat at 5:32 PM on January 6, 2008

CwgrlUp did NOT deserve that, and I'd like some backup that boyzoning it up with the "you stupid cunt/bint/bitch" is still, well, a paddling. Or, wait I'll do it myself. That makes it a cropping.

bruce, all your crippled witticisms are managing poorly to convice us fuckwits that you're pulling down three figures IQwise. So, follow that rolling donut.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 5:36 PM on January 6, 2008 [4 favorites]

gosh, I honestly didn't even know what "bint" meant, but yeah that's pretty not okay here.
posted by jessamyn (staff) at 5:40 PM on January 6, 2008

I'm sorry for coming late to this party and making my comment when things had started to settle down. bruce gets on my nerves, and I was just taking the opportunity to vent in an appropriate place, namely a thread about bruce being annoying. And not the threads where bruce makes comments that irritate me. I am also not 'emo', I just don't like you very much, bruce. Sorry.
posted by MadamM at 5:41 PM on January 6, 2008

ambrosia voyeur, your comment made my mascara run!
posted by bruce at 5:41 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

Can someone post a callout thread about me? I've been feeling too good about myself lately and could use some abuse.
posted by Justinian at 5:44 PM on January 6, 2008

Rama Lama Fa Fa Fa.
posted by chlorus at 5:56 PM on January 6, 2008

dudes ass is crazy and/or ignorant. We need a giant ass (open) metatalk thread to figure this out?
posted by chunking express at 5:58 PM on January 6, 2008

Thanks ladies. Apparently bruce thought I was 'anonymous' enough that he could call me whatever he wanted. I'm fine with expressing opinions but I did think that was pretty unwarranted.
posted by CwgrlUp at 6:31 PM on January 6, 2008

For anyone else interested in typing in Russian, there's also always the yandex.ru cyrillic keyboard [javascript].
posted by whimwit at 6:34 PM on January 6, 2008

Delete bruce's account for his own good, start over with the Sewell thread minus the "oh hey I don't care" and the "who are the Shins I only listen to big band music ever since the end of the Great War" and let's try to handle this like grownups because what a nightmare thread.

P.S. Tha Hate U Give Little Infants Fucks Everyone
posted by Optimus Chyme at 6:40 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

Many of the rest of you [...] show an unseemly eagerness to pile on
posted by languagehat at 5:05 PM on January 6

This is the same languagehat who looks forward to the monthly flameout threads, right? And now all of a sudden you're buddies with the weirdo racist misogynist who says a white woman's amusement at Chinese pseudo-appropriation of American black hip-hop culture justifies assault and battery? All because he can speak a little Russian? Well, fuck you, comrade.
posted by Optimus Chyme at 6:46 PM on January 6, 2008 [4 favorites]

Bruce is so damn...literal. I can't even begin to imagine what kind of stupid, vile, ignorant-ass shit would rattle around in his brain if he heard a "thug" use the word "nigga".
posted by iamkimiam at 6:50 PM on January 6, 2008

but i'll be dead before i ever have to learn chinese, unlike some of you. i was attacked by some liars today, and i make no apology for defending myself.

1) I'm not sure how you can call anyone else a liar when you were completly off your rocker. I mean, if you don't know what the truth is, how can you call someone a liar?

2) I've already learned Chinese，坏蛋。
posted by delmoi at 7:08 PM on January 6, 2008

the racial associations with "thug life,"

Definitely don't want to offend the Italians. They'll kneecap you.
[NOT ITALIANIST]
posted by IronLizard at 7:13 PM on January 6, 2008

*kisses IronLizard full on the mouth*
posted by jonmc at 7:15 PM on January 6, 2008

i don't understand why everyone is so upset about rug life - if people want to spend their spare time laying around on a rug i don't know why it would be anyone else's business but their own, as long as it's their rug and their house

really, you people are just a bunch of rug hatas - just because you got linoleum don't mean that we can't layonem
posted by pyramid termite at 7:22 PM on January 6, 2008

Jeebus Christ, stop feeding the troll|martyr/troll.

It's not bruce's age, syntax, or his upbringing--it's his interpretation of the content linked from the original post and inability to relate to another viewpoint/interpretation what brought us here. His life choices or his familiarity of Cyrillic alphabet do not perpetuate or enhance the discourse. Still, bruce asserts himself in the same manner and is given more latitude. Contrary-for-the-sake-of-being-contrary statements joined with name-calling do not exemplify a lawyer/judge/whatever-else-the-reader-should-RESPECT.
posted by bonobo at 7:27 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

The "bint" comment was over the fracking line. We all know what he meant to say, and it was directed at CwgrlUp, who is presumably a woman, and I would presume also quite offended.

Though she probably doesn't take this whole internet thing as seriously as bruce, and could brush it off, it's really too bad that he referenced her very insightful comment in such a way.

I've been quite wrong many times, and situations never seem to get better until I've admitted that what I did/said was wrong. Please do so Bruce. It'll be a healing experience that you've probably not recently felt, and, though unpleasant, ultimately rewarding.

Though I disagree with much of what you say here, I do appreciate the diversity of opinions found here (which you gladly supplement). But having differing opinions on issues is a lot different than using some of the *VERY* hateful language you use.

I'd appreciate the opinions you've to share, but not the hate.

And I don't want to speak for the community as a whole, but I for one would be much more appreciative of what you write if it wasn't with the explicit goal of AMUSING YOURSELF. You don't need mefi to do that. Take up a pen and paper, and amuse yourself away with all of the hateful ignorance you can imagine.

I don't really come here to amuse myself, but instead to help out others, and, in hand, myself. By trying to provide useful comments and links to others, I hope to save them the work I've done myself. And because sometimes free help comes home to roost, I'm glad to give it to others.

But using metafilter as your forum to amuse yourself is wrong. You've obviously got a text editor. Try writing little notes to yourself. Try writing something after you've indulged too much in your wine collection, and the reading it the next day. Evaluate whether what you've written in the evening is acceptable to you in the morning. Try viewing Metafilter as a place where people help each other out. Try admitting of being wrong.

Last night I missed a birthday party held for myself because I was angry at a good friend of mine who was hosting the party for me. I neglected to attend, and because of my actions she had to endure about two hours of people showing up at her house and saying, "where's tom?". She had to answer that I wouldn't be coming because I was mad at her, and all the details of such an explanation that would involve.

It was very hard to recieve the angry phone calls from my best friends that ensued, but I learned. I submitted, I ended up going to the party. I had to tell everyone there that I was as wrong as wrong could be, a complete wanker, a jerk. I looked like an ass for being an ass, but in the end it was a good time. People understand when other people screw up (as I did), but they only do so because they know they've also had similar moments of idiocy.

Just try admitting you're wrong. Tell us that you were wrong, and that its unfortunate that you mis-understood the woman's website, and that you feel regret about it. We'll understand. We've all been wrong before. And I personally like people who can admit they've been wrong, (but that's probably just a personal aesthetic..)
posted by localhuman at 7:29 PM on January 6, 2008 [7 favorites]

pyramid termite writes "if people want to spend their spare time laying around on a rug i don't know why it would be anyone else's business but their own, as long as it's their rug and their house"

It just goes to show you, it's always something!
posted by krinklyfig at 7:30 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

this thread is starting to remind me of the japanese bug fight thread. if any further useful educational value remains to be had, i challenge you to identify it. all that is left is acrimony for public amusement (and yes, i have been greatly amused too, and i also learned how to type cyrillic, now i want to learn how to type chinese obscenities!)...

rule #1: two bugs to a fight. i don't mind at all that this rule has been suspended. when i know i'm right, i can face down fifty, a hundred or more bugs with equanimity. i've faced down some bigger, badder bugs in my time the likes of which you only read about in newspapers.

rule #2: bug fights go on for as long as they have to. actually, this is entirely committed to the discretion of our esteemed moderators, whom i propose to call "bugmasters" in the future. i respectfully suggest that they terminate tonight's bugfight. if i come back here tomorrow and it's still going on, i'll probably leave some of your legs and wings on the floor.
posted by bruce at 7:32 PM on January 6, 2008

giant ass (open) thread
posted by roll truck roll at 7:35 PM on January 6, 2008

I get to be the dung beetle! Dibbs on dung beetles!

*flings flaming poo balls*
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 7:37 PM on January 6, 2008

Man. I need to brush up on my Chinese, and learn Cyrillic.
posted by delmoi at 7:40 PM on January 6, 2008

Oh sheesh.

This not very funny barb was supposed to come right after this. It looks even dumber separated by a screen full of comments than it would have looked otherwise.

Sorry.
posted by roll truck roll at 7:46 PM on January 6, 2008

Sorry won't cut it, roll. There's nothing for it now but... the bunny slippers of shame!
posted by It's Raining Florence Henderson at 7:50 PM on January 6, 2008

bruce not everything I think to myself would fly on MeFi at least not with out a long explanation that for me at least seems better suited for an intimate round table with close friends and a few beers; and I'm cool with that. Some things just don't work on the internet.
posted by nola at 7:52 PM on January 6, 2008

Diplomacy is need online I think even more than real life.
posted by nola at 7:53 PM on January 6, 2008

Needed* bah!
posted by nola at 7:54 PM on January 6, 2008

Metatalk is a feature, not a bug.

[not buggist]
posted by iamkimiam at 8:12 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

yes, asian writing looks like squiggles to me because i've never studied an asian language, you stupid bint.

Strange women lying about in ponds is no basis for a system of government! True power derives from a mandate from the masses, not some farcical aquatic cermony!

Oh, and is this thread still here? I've been out for dinner, had a long conversation with my niece, and watched some television, done the laundry, and yet comments are still accumulating. Including this one.

I want to know what languagehat's first Russian comment was, though.
posted by jokeefe at 9:07 PM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

I am so late to this party, you all seem to have run out of Blue Pepsi martinis and lost sight of its original purpose, to call out one of the current members of the Proud Metafilter Contrarians Society on a truly offensive misinterpretation and his subsequent condemnation of everyone who jumped to a rather obvious conclusion based on his words as "liars".

As a past recipient of the Rath of the Bruce, let me point out my conclusion that his career as a Trained Lawyer has made him especially impervious to all forms of counter-argument, not to mention most applications of logic and, of course, unconditional empathy for victims.

But let me correct the mis-interpretation of some of you that his is the attitude of an "OLD" retired lawyer, since he revealed earlier that he is the same age that I am (52), suggesting that his retired-with-plenty-of-free-time-to-go-fishing-AND-harass-MeFites status may be due to a better-than-average lucrative career in Lawyering and/or a desire to stop actively Lawyering, suggesting that he may possess somewhere deep inside some qualms about the value of his work to society.

Now this is, admittedly, long-distance internet analysis of a person's soul, something bruce himself attempted on me before with absolutely hilarious results (Sorry, no Communist Party membership card). But I do have a lot of experience at it with an under-5% rate of errors deserving apologies and will continue to do so. I also see no likelihood this will "nip anything in the bud" due to the determined propagation of some weeds, as anyone into the Gardening Life knows.
posted by wendell at 9:09 PM on January 6, 2008 [3 favorites]

I can't wait until I'm 52. I'm sick of not being crazy.
posted by Astro Zombie at 9:15 PM on January 6, 2008 [4 favorites]

In wendell's case, crazy FAB!
posted by Astro Zombie at 9:16 PM on January 6, 2008

Metatalk is a feature, not a bug.

They come for the Best of the Web, they stay for the Worst.

Which is, really, incredibly tame.
posted by IronLizard at 9:33 PM on January 6, 2008

FAB? No, I have never worked for Fleeman Anderson & Bird. And you see, item, you're making the same conclusion jump error that bruce is guilty of.

But, you know, this might be an opportune time for a reminder that "everyone needs a hug", so HUG LIFE.
posted by wendell at 9:38 PM on January 6, 2008

No, it's Wendell Freeman. I'm Gordon's half-brother.
posted by wendell at 9:58 PM on January 6, 2008

Oh, and is this thread still here? I've been out for dinner, had a long conversation with my niece, and watched some television, done the laundry, and yet comments are still accumulating. Including this one.

Yeah? Well, since I made my comment in (what's currently) the middle of this thread, I've helped some girl find books about Oscar Wilde, recommended a cookbook called Arabesque to one of my friends, left the library, given away some old Da Lench Mob, Dreamcast and ACLU t-shirts at a clothing swap, eaten a panade, played about ten games of gin, bought cookies at the grocery store, drank a beer and watched a Simpsons episode.
posted by box at 10:07 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

I agree with others here that Bruce is becoming tedious. I loved him in Sixth Sense, but I could live without another Die Hard sequel. Let it go, already, Bruce.
posted by taz at 10:12 PM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

I liked Bruce okay in Fast Food Nation and Alpha Dog, too. Then again, Bruce Willis playing a sleazy old man might be like Tom Cruise playing, y'know, Tom Cruise.
posted by box at 10:25 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

12 Monkeys was easily his best work.
posted by Blazecock Pileon at 10:27 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

Oh, and is this thread still here? I've been out for dinner, had a long conversation with my niece, and watched some television, done the laundry, and yet comments are still accumulating. Including this one.

Yeah? Well, since I made my comment in (what's currently) the middle of this thread, I've helped some girl find books about Oscar Wilde, recommended a cookbook called Arabesque to one of my friends, left the library, given away some old Da Lench Mob, Dreamcast and ACLU t-shirts at a clothing swap, eaten a panade, played about ten games of gin, bought cookies at the grocery store, drank a beer and watched a Simpsons episode.

Oh yeah? Well, I forgot to mention that I stopped by buy birdseed for my feeder, visited my elderly mother, patted her cat, read the English newspapers she always has on hand, played Scrabble, dusted the floors, and backed up all my files. Game, set, and match, Sir.
posted by jokeefe at 10:32 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

I'm not changing my opinion of bruce unless he learns to type in Hindi.
posted by Meatbomb at 10:40 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

Wrong Bruce. He can't be Bruce Willis, Bruce Campbell, Bruce Dern, Bruce Springsteen, Bruce Sterling, Bruce Hornsby, Bruce Cockburn, Bruce Vilanch or Jack Bruce. But I wouldn't rule out Bruce Boxleitner (after he nearly ruined Babylon 5). Still, it should be noted that the B. in William B. Davis (X-Files' Cigarette Smoking Man) is Bruce. And Marshall "Eminem" Mathers' middle name is also Bruce ("embeeem"?) and so are Many Patinkin's, David Cassidy's and Dick Cheney's.
posted by wendell at 10:53 PM on January 6, 2008

So, not only does bruce revel in his self-appointed role as crotchety old white man, making racist and sexist comments—directed at other members of the community, no less—he clearly fails to understand that this is a community and not a boxing ring. If I were a moderator, he'd have his ass banned forthwith.

Man, I dunno. He's no Four Panels, who was really obnoxious. But I do worry about Metafilter becoming overly civil, leading people to self-censor all the time.

I do hope a mod talks to him and tells him to chill out, though. He does need to learn that being part of a community means learning when to calm down and walk away from an argument.
posted by delmoi at 10:57 PM on January 6, 2008 [2 favorites]

Wouldn't that apply to everyone else as well?
posted by IronLizard at 11:26 PM on January 6, 2008

I'm pretty sure that if I inferred another mefi user to be a "bint" (we all know what you meant...okay, you fuck) that I'd be banned, and I would hope so. Maybe I misread you, maybe you're okay. But maybe you're a really f'ing painful tumor in this community. I'd love not to feel you here any longer.
posted by localhuman at 11:51 PM on January 6, 2008 [1 favorite]

Guess what's tattooed on my friend Buster's abdomen?
posted by blasdelf at 12:08 AM on January 7, 2008

You can infer all you want, localhuman. Should you imply it, however, things might get problematic. Also, damn the British for taking a perfectly fine Arabic word for "girl" and making it into something that's apparently chiefly offensive. I might've wanted to use that word without pissing people off, but now they've gone and spoiled things.
posted by mumkin at 12:10 AM on January 7, 2008

I don't care what word it is. Calling CwgrlUp a "stupid girl" or "stupid woman" is just as ugly. Of course, her having a feminized word for a handle means she was asking for it, right? bruce has seemed to chafe around the concept of feminism before, so I'm prescribing less internet, more dominatrices, and fixed income be damned.
posted by Ambrosia Voyeur at 1:08 AM on January 7, 2008 [2 favorites]

I'M MORE RIGHTEOUS THAN YOU ARE

NO YOU AINT

AM TOO

NUH-UH

YEAH HUH

WANNA FIGHT

no man its cool im a pacifist
posted by nasreddin at 1:39 AM on January 7, 2008

You all need to get out and drink more/less beer.

Bintreference:

I mean, if I went 'round saying I was an emperor just because some moistened bint had lobbed a scimitar at me, they'd put me away!
posted by iamabot at 2:28 AM on January 7, 2008 [2 favorites]

还得再次强调LOGO里面的英語并非译错或者误解。从能看到的那点点上下文肯定是出于一个介绍美国说唱音乐文化的一篇文章，无足怪尔。接着，全为了逗这批大胆敢取笑伟大美丽的中文，我想故意乱把几句英文插入这个回帖中，比如“CURIOUS GENITAL DEFORMATION”。亲爱的中文读者，以下所写全为提供一个能在上面镶嵌英語废话的背景，劝你们不用继续读,因为类似“STEAMING PILE”确实毫无意义。说实话，我这么开始，不知怎么结尾为好。也许引一句“FALL OF THE WEST"以加剧那些骄傲西方人的文明危机感。
posted by Abiezer at 3:27 AM on January 7, 2008 [2 favorites]

I find it pretty amusing that in the original thread, I implied my interest in this story was based upon living in a city where I don't speak the language, and in both that thread and this follow-up, I've gotten more exposure to something I've found very hard to learn. I now realize that I can, actually, read and understand a bit of Russian, other then what I see on the streets every day. Thank you Metafilter!
posted by monkey!knife!fight! at 3:52 AM on January 7, 2008

In my little imaginary world, in which I pretend to be a moderator on an excellent website, I like to think of the 'noise' flag as being a 'lame' flag and I use it with great vigour.
posted by h00py at 3:56 AM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]

is madamm's comment what you call "emo"?

I'm pretty sure it's what you call "frustrated by a pattern of behavior", which seems like a pretty fair cop, all else aside.
posted by cortex (staff) at 6:03 AM on January 7, 2008

Man, I dunno. He's no Four Panels, who was really obnoxious. But I do worry about Metafilter becoming overly civil, leading people to self-censor all the time.

I am so damned glad this came up.

Because, for a couple of weeks, I've been thinking, "Wow, fourcheesemac sure has settled down and grown a bit of intellect... I used to think he/she was a real asshole, starting all those whiny niggling MeTas, but lately the contributions have been Of Definite Value."
posted by pineapple at 6:16 AM on January 7, 2008

This is the same languagehat who looks forward to the monthly flameout threads, right? And now all of a sudden you're buddies with the weirdo racist misogynist who says a white woman's amusement at Chinese pseudo-appropriation of American black hip-hop culture justifies assault and battery? All because he can speak a little Russian? Well, fuck you, comrade.

Aw, come on now, tovarishch. I hope people realize that my hunger for flameouts is (mostly) shtick; I mean, I enjoy it when some asshat spews venom and flees as much as anyone else, but what I really want (what I really really want) is for people to realize that they've been taking their differences too seriously and for contentious threads to end up in group hugs and beery companionship. I'm not "buddies" with bruce, I just think the piling-on is unseemly and I wish it would stop. Frankly, I'm surprised the admins haven't closed this thread, since he asked them to; that's a courtesy they normally extend routinely.

Oh yeah, and fuck you too. Now can we have that beer?
posted by languagehat at 6:41 AM on January 7, 2008 [2 favorites]

I want to know what languagehat's first Russian comment was, though.

Ни уха ни рыла—ни черта не понимаешь!
Ni úkha ni rýla—ni chertá ne ponimáesh!
Neither ear nor snout—you don't understand a damn thing!
["Neither ear nor snout" is an idiom meaning 'nothing at all.']
posted by languagehat at 6:45 AM on January 7, 2008 [2 favorites]

Bruce would've gotten away with it if it weren't for you meddling kids.
posted by Evangeline at 7:16 AM on January 7, 2008

My money's on an ugly disbarring incident in his recent past. That, or he's a total and complete fucking liar...

That's my suspicion, too. Lawyers come in all stripes and in all wattage levels, and alleged lawyers even more so, but I'm surprised that anyone as stubbornly deaf to the ringing of a clue phone as Bruce appears to be would have gotten into an ABA-approved law school, let alone have been successful enough in a law career to have retired by age 52.

In my experience, (IIAL) a law school education has at least one lasting benefit. It is, if nothing else, a boot camp for critical thinking. Law school was also (and also in my experience!) a great place to get one's intellectual eyeglasses smashed and handed back to them for making the shallow and unsupported assertions for which Bruce appears to have a demonstrated penchant.
posted by applemeat at 7:20 AM on January 7, 2008

I find any name-calling in these threads offensive, whether it's calling someone "asshole", "fucker", "bitch", "bint"... whatever. When I get to the point when I feel the urge to name call, I know it's time to call it quits. It's not a completely selfless act - I can usually hold my own in an argument, but when someone starts spewing hate, I'm at a disadvantage. I get too emotional and the exchange stops making sense.

I do have a question though. It seems par for the course to lob expletives at the guys - is the term "bitch" more offensive because it's female-specific? Does that mean "dickhead" is more offensive because it's male-specific? I'm asking because I hate to be called names, but I'm equally upset by "bitch" or "asshole" or "fuckhead".
posted by Evangeline at 7:30 AM on January 7, 2008

Back in '96, an acquaintance of mine got "STRUGLIFE" tattooed on his midsection, in homage to Kerri Strug's performance at the Olympics. I think that's what it was, anyway. He is kind of a cartoon character-like individual. Man, is that an odd thing to have permanently on one's belly.
posted by norm at 7:32 AM on January 7, 2008 [1 favorite]

ooooh! I so very much want to be called "mister cowbellemoo"! Do me next! Do me next!
posted by cowbellemoo at 8:24 AM on January 7, 2008

'Dickhead' is male-specific?
posted by box at 8:42 AM on January 7, 2008

My understanding is that "dick" refers to a man's penis. I can't think of an insult more particular to men that that. Have I been mistaken all these years?
posted by Evangeline at 8:45 AM on January 7, 2008

ok gang, due to previous scheduling commitments, i will be very busy today and unable to attend to serious bugfighting until at least mid-afternoon. i note that the admin declined to close the thread, signifying his tacit approval of this mode of interaction.

i also note some folks apparently willing to bet money that i was either disbarred or failed to attend an aba accredited law school. two points:

1. mere speculation is ok, you're safe. an affirmative representation to this effect, on the other hand, could be viewed as actionable defamation. be careful. i have a long reach.

2. if you wish to bet money on this point, tell me how much and we'll put it into an internet escrow pending resolution. to kick things off, i propose a figure of $1000. those of you wishing to fade this bet please provide names and amounts in this space. if the amount is oversubscribed, i am very open to jacking it up further.
posted by bruce at 8:48 AM on January 7, 2008

I always thought that 'dickhead' referred to someone with a dick where their head should be. And that that hypothetical person could just as easily be female or transgendered or whatever. Where, say, 'limpdick,' or 'needle dick,' are male-specific. And 'cocksucker' carries a sort of undercurrent of homophobia. Maybe I'm the one that's mistaken, though.
posted by box at 8:49 AM on January 7, 2008

i note that the admin declined to close the thread, signifying his tacit approval of this mode of interaction.

A bleary, insomniacal admin didn't parse your weird previous bugfight comment as being a request for closure (usually people just kind of ask, even writing an email if it matters to them) until it was pointed out later yet that that was what the hell it was.

Said admin doesn't really feel like encouraging any more of this, though, so said admin is wearily, if belatedly, making your day.
posted by cortex (staff) at 8:52 AM on January 7, 2008

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